NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LUIaRvFAi4

I recently saw this and was reminded again of what happened years back, including Ruby Ridge as well. Am I the only one who feels disgusted in my law enforcements behavior and deeds? So much inhumane and dehumanising action.

No, your not the only one and its a shame really. The people in law enforcement are heros, unfortunately a few bad apples seem to ruin the whole bushel in the public's opinion.

Well I sure hope the cult leaders involved are dead. :mad:

Well I sure hope the cult leaders involved are dead. :mad:
Oh i can assure you they are all very very dead :p

No, your not the only one and its a shame really. The people in law enforcement are heros, unfortunately a few bad apples seem to ruin the whole bushel in the public's opinion.
AMEN to that... brother or sister?

I don't give a fuck about Ruby Ridge. So what? They killed neo-Nazis.

That's a thumbs up in my book.

As a current DOJ employee, all I can say is that a lot of things went wrong at Ruby Ridge.

I don't give a fuck about Ruby Ridge. So what? They killed neo-Nazis.

That's a thumbs up in my book.

You are an immature troll. Learn a bit more about Ruby Ridge before spouting comments glorifying the death of a 12 year old child shot in the back and a sniped in the head wife holding her baby.

Also no they weren't neo-nazis, learn your terminology. The correct term I believe was isolationist white supremist. In other words they wouldn't have hurt anyone or lynched for that matter, they simply moved far away to live alone (on a mountain in the woods) or only among other people of the same race. Not really a view I agree with, but hardly harmfull, possibly anti-social to an extreme but nothing more really.

You are an immature troll. Learn a bit more about Ruby Ridge before spouting comments glorifying the death of a 12 year old child shot in the back and a sniped in the head wife holding her baby.

Also no they weren't neo-nazis, learn your terminology. The correct term I believe was isolationist white supremist. In other words they wouldn't have hurt anyone or lynched for that matter, they simply moved far away to live alone (on a mountain in the woods) or only among other people of the same race. Not really a view I agree with, but hardly harmfull, possibly anti-social to an extreme but nothing more really.
I admit I don't know much about this, but the child was firing at police, wasn't he? If they're old enough to attack police with guns, they're old enough to get shot.

I recently saw this and was reminded again of what happened years back, including Ruby Ridge as well. Am I the only one who feels disgusted in my law enforcements behavior and deeds? So much inhumane and dehumanising action.Why the fuss? The world was liberated from a bunch of breaindead people. Why shed a tear for idiotic human dirt like Branch Davidians? And after all they set their compound on fire themselves.
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You are an immature troll. Learn a bit more about Ruby Ridge before spouting comments glorifying the death of a 12 year old child shot in the back and a sniped in the head wife holding her baby.

Also no they weren't neo-nazis, learn your terminology. The correct term I believe was isolationist white supremist. In other words they wouldn't have hurt anyone or lynched for that matter, they simply moved far away to live alone (on a mountain in the woods) or only among other people of the same race. Not really a view I agree with, but hardly harmfull, possibly anti-social to an extreme but nothing more really.It is a shame that in your country it is possible at all to set up an organization calling itself Aryan Nations. The agenda of such folks is pretty clear. Of course they are white supremacists and maybe isolationist but that clearly means they could turn hostile any moment.
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I admit I don't know much about this, but the child was firing at police, wasn't he? If they're old enough to attack police with guns, they're old enough to get shot.

It's generally a proven fact that it was the Federal Marshals that opened fire first.

Fact, the other child (who indeed shot and killed a Federal Marshal) was acquitted since he was acting in self-defense.

Here's the deal:

If people with guns hop out of the woods with no warning, and start shooting in my general direction, it's legitimate to shoot back. If they turn out to have been cops, tough luck.

It is a shame that in your country it is possible at all to set up an organization calling itself Aryan Nations.

Freedom of speech for everybody, even neo-nazis.

And I'm Jewish, for the record.

Freedom of speech for everybody, even neo-nazis..

why?

Freedom of speech for everybody, even neo-nazis.Freedom of speech has limits. Especially when it turns into efforts of brain-washing and the spread of dangerous ideologies.

And I'm Jewish, for the record.Just as bad as a neo-Nazi.
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Freedom of speech has limits. Especially when it turns into efforts of brain-washing and the spread of dangerous ideologies.

Just as bad as a neo-Nazi.
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Dangerous ideologies are the ones that need to be protected the most. No one, and especially not YOU, are wise enough or smart enough to be allowed to tell people what to think.

Dangerous ideologies are the ones that need to be protected the most. No one, and especially not YOU, are wise enough or smart enough to be allowed to tell people what to think.But what NOT to think. Teachings of racial inequality deserve no protection.
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But what NOT to think. Teachings of racial inequality deserve no protection.
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Bollocks. Just because we disagree with a belief is no reason to ban it or deny it the protections of law and civility.

We've SEEN where that line of bullshit goes. Once you ban one ideology, it gets progressively easier to ban others - and before long we're back in the 16th century, with mandated church attendence and the death penalty for anyone who dares to think outside of the prescribed areas.

Everyone has free speech, or NO ONE does.

Bollocks. Just because we disagree with a belief is no reason to ban it or deny it the protections of law and civility.

We've SEEN where that line of bullshit goes. Once you ban one ideology, it gets progressively easier to ban others - and before long we're back in the 16th century, with mandated church attendence and the death penalty for anyone who dares to think outside of the prescribed areas.

Everyone has free speech, or NO ONE does.

crap. i dont have the freedom to call you a peadophile, threaten to kill the us president or advertise cyanide as baby food. speech has always been curtailed, its just a question of degrees.

no-one is advocating banning an ideology. the logic is that people who will remove free speech through violent methods should not be given the freedom to attempt to do so in the mass media.

I admit I don't know much about this, but the child was firing at police, wasn't he? If they're old enough to attack police with guns, they're old enough to get shot.

No, the dog "Striker" was running towards the marshals crawling around in the bushes, the 12 year old kid was running right behind the dog, all of a sudden the marshals opened fire at the dog and the kid. The dog went down right away, the kid quickly shot once with his gun in the direction of the trespassers who had shot his dog and then dropped his gun and ran. The Marshals then shot the 12 year old kid multiple times in the back killing him as he was trying to run away.

Now at this time Mr Weaver and his Vietnam friend reach the spot notice the strangers shooting his son and dog, and open fire with their weapons. The marshals not wishing to test their luck against Weaver and Harris both ex-green berets (special forces soldiers) and vietnam veterans. However Harris managed to take one of the Marshals down with a headshot, which judging his skill was probably intentional, he was later acquitted with self-defence as the marshals didn't identify themselves as law enforcement. So they were in front of the law fugitives trespassing onto property and opening fire on its owners, so therefore open to retaliatory defence until they identify themselves with "Stop, Police."

No, the dog "Striker" was running towards the marshals crawling around in the bushes, the 12 year old kid was running right behind the dog, all of a sudden the marshals opened fire at the dog and the kid. The dog went down right away, the kid quickly shot once with his gun in the direction of the trespassers who had shot his dog and then dropped his gun and ran. The Marshals then shot the 12 year old kid multiple times in the back killing him as he was trying to run away.

Now at this time Mr Weaver and his Vietnam friend reach the spot notice the strangers shooting his son and dog, and open fire with their weapons. The marshals not wishing to test their luck against Weaver and Harris both ex-green berets (special forces soldiers) and vietnam veterans. However Harris managed to take one of the Marshals down with a headshot, which judging his skill was probably intentional, he was later acquitted with self-defence as the marshals didn't identify themselves as law enforcement. So they were in front of the law fugitives trespassing onto property and opening fire on its owners, so therefore open to retaliatory defence until they identify themselves with "Stop, Police."
Source? I know it's wikipedia, but the wikipedia article doesn't give a clear statement on who fired first. I am more inclined to trust the police than white supremacist nutters.

Source? I know it's wikipedia, but the wikipedia article doesn't give a clear statement on who fired first. I am more inclined to trust the police than white supremacist nutters.

Why not believe the courts that acquitted the other kid and Weaver himself?

In fact, the government paid Weaver 1.3 million bucks in compensation.

Freedom of speech has limits. Especially when it turns into efforts of brain-washing and the spread of dangerous ideologies.

All ideologies are 'dangerous'. Ask Jefferson.


Just as bad as a neo-Nazi.
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Wait. You're saying Jews are as bad as Neo-Nazis?

All ideologies are 'dangerous'. Ask Jefferson.





Wait. You're saying Jews are as bad as Neo-Nazis?
Ignore East of Eden is Nod. He's just jealous that the Jews have found more success than he has. :D

About the issue on freedom of speech. That "right" is COMPLETELY hypocritical. It gives everyone the right to brainwash and dictate others with words! People should earn that right and prove they'd be responsible with it first before they can speak freely. America should become a meritocracy.

The justification for freedom of speech is that if I don't give you the right to speak your mind, I have no right to speak mind.

Of course the childish and insecure elements of our society do not want people who disagree with them to have a chance to say things that make them feel unhappy, but most of them will grow out of it, eventually.

The justification for freedom of speech is that if I don't give you the right to speak your mind, I have no right to speak mind.

Of course the childish and insecure elements of our society do not want people who disagree with them to have a chance to say things that make them feel unhappy, but most of them will grow out of it, eventually.

Its a slow and damaging process...:( Andfreedom of speech helped murder the American educational system :'( Now they're more concerned with not pissing anyone off than actually teaching anybody.

crap. i dont have the freedom to call you a peadophile, threaten to kill the us president or advertise cyanide as baby food. speech has always been curtailed, its just a question of degrees.

no-one is advocating banning an ideology. the logic is that people who will remove free speech through violent methods should not be given the freedom to attempt to do so in the mass media.

East of Eden is Nod IS advocating banning an ideology. It's not one I agree with or support, but it's still an ideology.

And that "logic" is utter crap. One cannot remove free speech by speaking, mass media or no. All one can do is try to PERSUADE someone to one's own point of view - which is what the concept of freedom of speech is SUPPOSED to protect.

(Incidentally, you're right of course that there are always some curtails on freedom of speech. But POLITICAL speech has been given near-unlimited reign in the US - which is, I think, both as it should be and as the right was originally designed to be.)

About the issue on freedom of speech. That "right" is COMPLETELY hypocritical. It gives everyone the right to brainwash and dictate others with words! People should earn that right and prove they'd be responsible with it first before they can speak freely. America should become a meritocracy.

The largest problem with meritocracy is deciding what defines "merit". Any meritocracy would turn into an elite ruling class who would never allow anyone else up unless they agreed with the ideals of that class.

Waco was a brutal action by beuracrats who were trying to prove their worth. It was electioneering gone horribly wrong, and forever created my disgust for powerful central government. It is one of the things that made me libertarian.

In Meritocracy one must earn their rights by worthiness. Worthiness by what I meant was having the rights, using them for the better and not abusing them. Kind of like how we need drivers licenses to prove we can drive well, follow the rules and not harm others, the same should go with power, rights and rules.

In Meritocracy one must earn their rights by worthiness. Worthiness by what I meant was having the rights, using them for the better and not abusing them. Kind of like how we need drivers licenses to prove we can drive well, follow the rules and not harm others, the same should go with power, rights and rules.

Give this its own thread and I will discuss it with you. I wont hijack this one.

Give this its own thread and I will discuss it with you. I wont hijack this one.

ok just a sec

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11938889#post11938889

There it is. Lets get back on topic about Waco.