NationStates Jolt Archive

1. The countries leader's are NOT anti-semites.

2. They believe that Israel is an illegitemate government.

3. Because of #2, they believe that the COUNTRY and GOVERNMENT, not the PEOPLE of Israel should be wiped off the map.

4. If you look back to when Israel was created, you'll see that #2 is true. After the Holocaust, the Jews needed somewhere to stay. So why not the place where the original Jewish Kingdom was? Oh, there's another country there now? And they mean no harm to us? And they are a legitemate government? Oh well! It'll be better for us! Who cares about those silly little Palestianians? They don't want to leave? Well, let's say that if we become a nation we will support one of the current Superpowers, that way they will come in and kick the people who are currently legitemately living there out so that we can move in!

50 years later...

What?!?! People are claiming we are an illegitemate government?!?! But we needed this land! We needed a government! Our people were being massacred! And these people are trying to throw us out just because we moved in without asking? They are evil then, and need to be put down!

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Wouldn't you be saying the same things if you were the President of Iran?

You're about to get flamed. Best of luck on keeping your ego intact.

Valid point about the current situation. After all, he never said to eliminate the Jews, he said to wipe the administration sitting in Israel to be wiped from the pages of history.

Also, since I'm too lazy to link it and people were too lethargic to read and reply, I'll remind everyone that in 1947, the king of Transjordan, King Abdullah wrote to the American public, expressing that the Arabs had done more than enough for the Jews, and that they were unable to take any more. His article went on to further say that the Jews in already in the region didn't welcome the "foreigners" who were also Jewish. The same article outright accuses the Christian nations of the west of being solely responsible for the demise of a large segment of the European Jewish population and that is is unfair that the Arabs have to shoulder the burden.

The King Goes on to say how the Muslims, Christians and Jews get along, but are unable to make room for more because of limited resources. The King compares the 1947 size of the land proposed for Israel as being the size equal to Vermont.

If you google it, it's called: "How Arabs See Jews".

EDIT: Since people will ask for a source, I will give it: As Arabs See Jews (http://www.starttherevolution.org/archives/2006/j%20-%20october/AsTheArabsSeeTheJews.htm)

Too bad that Iran financially and militarily supports organizations that call for the eradication of all Jews.

Too bad that Iran financially and militarily supports organizations that call for the eradication of all Jews.

No, they are SUSPECTED to fund Extremist Jihadist orginazations. There is no proof they actually do. And any "proof" you get should be from an unbiased source, like Switzerland. If it comes from America and it's allies, you can be sure that it will say they do, which will be an excuse to invade Iran and set up a pro-western government. If you get it from Iran or it's allies, you can be sure it will say that they don't, for obvious reasons.

Too bad that Iran financially and militarily supports organizations that call for the eradication of all Jews.
Too bad the west didn't listen in 1947 to the calls NOT to make a nation JUST for Jews in the Mid East. After all, before that, Muslims, Jews and Christians got along just fine before the zionists decided that it wasn't right.

Too bad the west didn't want to take responsibility for not helping the Jews escape Nazi Germany.

Too bad the west didn't do squat until it was too late.

The Arabs took in more Jews than the west ever did BEFORE the holocaust and before the emergence of the Zionists.

No, they are SUSPECTED to fund Extremist Jihadist orginazations. There is no proof they actually do. And any "proof" you get should be from an unbiased source, like Switzerland. If it comes from America and it's allies, you can be sure that it will say they do, which will be an excuse to invade Iran and set up a pro-western government. If you get it from Iran or it's allies, you can be sure it will say that they don't, for obvious reasons.

No proof? I guess Argentina, Australia, et al plus the admission of the organizations themselves aren't enough "evidence" for you.

Keep trying.

Too bad the west didn't listen in 1947 to the calls NOT to make a nation JUST for Jews in the Mid East. After all, before that, Muslims, Jews and Christians got along just fine before the zionists decided that it wasn't right.

Too bad the west didn't want to take responsibility for not helping the Jews escape Nazi Germany.

Too bad the west didn't do squat until it was too late.

The Arabs took in more Jews than the west ever did BEFORE the holocaust and before the emergence of the Zionists.

Oh shit. Someone used the Z word.

*Puts on flame retardant suit*

Really, there's a reason I didn't use the Z word in my OP. It causes too much strife. Your post is true, but too flame-bait-y

Too bad the west didn't listen in 1947 to the calls NOT to make a nation JUST for Jews in the Mid East. After all, before that, Muslims, Jews and Christians got along just fine before the zionists decided that it wasn't right.

Too bad the west didn't want to take responsibility for not helping the Jews escape Nazi Germany.

Too bad the west didn't do squat until it was too late.

The Arabs took in more Jews than the west ever did BEFORE the holocaust and before the emergence of the Zionists.

Yep, it's all the "west's" fault for these organizations calling for genocide of Jews worldwide.

Oh shit. Someone used the Z word.

*Puts on flame retardant suit*

Really, there's a reason I didn't use the Z word in my OP. It causes too much strife. Your post is true, but too flame-bait-y

I used it because there is a difference between a Jew and a Zionist. A Zionist can be a Jew, but a Jew isn't necessarily a Zionist. The Zionists are people who believe Jews should have their own nation, and they included the Christians of the west.

Too bad the west didn't listen in 1947 to the calls NOT to make a nation JUST for Jews in the Mid East. After all, before that, Muslims, Jews and Christians got along just fine before the zionists decided that it wasn't right.

Too bad the west didn't want to take responsibility for not helping the Jews escape Nazi Germany.

Too bad the west didn't do squat until it was too late.

The Arabs took in more Jews than the west ever did BEFORE the holocaust and before the emergence of the Zionists.
You lose in history. The Arabs and Jews did NOT get along. The Jews were content with the situation they were in until the Arabs under the Mufti began attacking the Kibbutzim. From 1921-1929 and 1936-1939, the Jews in the land were attacked by the Muslims.

The 2nd uprising was actually orchestrated by the Mufti to create enough disorder that the British would create the White Paper and trap the Jews in Hitler's Germany. The Mufti then went to Germany himself and became a high ranking member in the SS and one of the architects of Hitler's Final Solution.

After the war, the Mufti was still the leader of the Palestinians. To establish a single state for everyone in the land would put the Jews under the control of a fucking Nazi who was helping plan their genocide.

1. The countries leader's are NOT anti-semites.


3. Because of #2, they believe that the COUNTRY and GOVERNMENT, not the PEOPLE of Israel should be wiped off the map.



This one is STILL making me chuckle. I have this hillarious vision of Iran invading Israel, killing the government, telling all the Jews that they are welcome to stay and nothing else will change and dusting off thier hands and going back home with no additional comment.

Is it me or has NS turned into fucking stormfront over the past month?

Yep, it's all the "west's" fault for these organizations calling for genocide of Jews worldwide.
Yes it is.

The west started it back in 1948 by allowing for the zionist agency overseeing the relocation of Jews to a new home to push for a nation that was in the "Holy Land", that belongs to all Christians, Muslims and Jews.

The west didn't listen to the calls to take in the Jews early on; they didn't respect the Arabs (who are Jewish, Christian and Muslim) when it was said that forcing the existance of a nation would cause chaos.

No one heeded the call. They made Jerusalem a Jewish city, disrespecting that the city is a holy city for all three religions.

The west started the whole genocide thing, forcing the Jews to flee.

The Arabs could welcome to many before it became clear that the FOREIGN European Jews were the next best thing to an invasion force.

Yep, it's all the "west's" fault for these organizations calling for genocide of Jews worldwide.

Well, it actually is.

You see, the Crusaders were westerners. I can understand them defending Byzantine, but then they had to go all genocidal on the Muslims.

This led to the Muslims being distrustful of westerners, and, subsequiencally, Jews. This therefore led them to not modernizing, therefore not having internationalist views.

So when WWII was over and the Jews needed a place to stay, the Jews (this part is their fault) decided to take back their old kingdom. Thing is, the Muslims, who are distrustful of them now, wouldn't let them. So the Jews got the westerners to kick out the Muslims and install the Jews into Israel.

Now then, if say, Canadians had inhabited America before you came along, then after a mass genocide of their people they decided to come back and take America back, and then got China to kick you out of this land that you've had for thousands of years, wouldn't you be screaming for the blood of the Canadians?

Or, if you're British. Let's say that the Danish inhabited Britian before you came along. Then the Danish experienced a mass genocide of their people. So the decided to come back and reclaim their land, and got France to kick you out of your land which you've had for thousands of years. Wouldn't you be screaming for the blood of the Danish?

Yes it is.

The west started it back in 1948 by allowing for the zionist agency overseeing the relocation of Jews to a new home to push for a nation that was in the "Holy Land", that belongs to all Christians, Muslims and Jews.

The west didn't listen to the calls to take in the Jews early on; they didn't respect the Arabs (who are Jewish, Christian and Muslim) when it was said that forcing the existance of a nation would cause chaos.

No one heeded the call. They made Jerusalem a Jewish city, disrespecting that the city is a holy city for all three religions.

The west started the whole genocide thing, forcing the Jews to flee.

The Arabs could welcome to many before it became clear that the FOREIGN European Jews were the next best thing to an invasion force.

BW. As IDF showed, there were muslim SS detachments. Try again. Keeping up the apologetics for groups calling for the extermination of Jews WORLDWIDE and still recognizing the Protocols as legitimate is really pathetic.

1. The countries leader's are NOT anti-semites.



Then why did they set up a cartoon competition to see who could best mock jews and the holocaust?

Well, it actually is.

You see, the Crusaders were westerners. I can understand them defending Byzantine, but then they had to go all genocidal on the Muslims.

*snip apologetics*



Now it's the fault of the crusades that these groups are calling for genocide when Jews were targeted by the crusades as well.

Nice try.

Is it me or has NS turned into fucking stormfront over the past month?

Oh, I'm sorry. Is it like a Nazi to call for the destruction of a government who kicked you out of your land which you've had for thousands of years, and of whom had no legal claim to the land?

Look at it from Iran's view, and maybe you won't be as blind. But as far as I can tell you don't care to see the problem from a 360* view, since you are so biased for Israel.

Is it me or has NS turned into fucking stormfront over the past month?
Just because someone uses the word 'zionist'?

I used this search query ("define:zionist" ) in google to get the below definition:

Zionism is a political movement among Jews, although supported by some non-Jews and not supported by some Jews, which maintains that the Jewish people constitute a nation and are entitled to a national homeland. Formally founded in 1897, Zionism embraced a variety of opinions in its early years on where that homeland might be established. From 1917 it focused on the establishment of a Jewish national homeland or state in Palestine, the location of the ancient Kingdom of Israel. ...

Zionist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist)

It's not a racist word against Jews, since it can apply to Non-Jews who support the movement.

Oh, I'm sorry. Is it like a Nazi to call for the destruction of a government who kicked you out of your land which you've had for thousands of years, and of whom had no legal claim to the land?

Look at it from Iran's view, and maybe you won't be as blind. But as far as I can tell you don't care to see the problem from a 360* view, since you are so biased for Israel.

Still denying the support that even Hezbollah and Hamas admit they get from Iran I see. Still denying that both groups call for the complete genocide of Jews.

Yes it is.

The west started it back in 1948 by allowing for the zionist agency overseeing the relocation of Jews to a new home to push for a nation that was in the "Holy Land", that belongs to all Christians, Muslims and Jews.
No, the violence really began in 1831 when Egyptian rulers started killing Jews in Jerusalem. In 1921, the Mufti took over as the leader of the Palestinians and began trying to kill all of the Jews. The riots continued until 1929 when the Kibbutz organized Haganah began counter-attacking.

In the 1930s, the Mufti organized more violence in order to stop the German Jews from escaping Germany. He got his wish as the British tried to do what they did best at the time and appease the Muslims. In 1937, the Peel Commission recommended partition. A VERY fair deal was drawn up which gave the Jews Tel Aviv and some of the Jezreel Valley, where they had Kibbutzim and Moshavim.



The west didn't listen to the calls to take in the Jews early on; they didn't respect the Arabs (who are Jewish, Christian and Muslim) when it was said that forcing the existance of a nation would cause chaos.
There was already chaos there long before establishing Israel.

No one heeded the call. They made Jerusalem a Jewish city, disrespecting that the city is a holy city for all three religions.
You know jack shit. Jerusalem was made an International city under the UN flag by the partition. Jordan siezed the city though and controlled it for 19 years until Israel took it. NOTE ON THAT: Israel didn't want to involve Jordan in the 67 war and actually told them to stay out. Israel only took Jerusalem and the West Bank (Jordanian territory at the time) after Jordan invaded Israel.

The west started the whole genocide thing, forcing the Jews to flee.
Yep, fucking Europe did it for 1900 years.

The Arabs could welcome to many before it became clear that the FOREIGN European Jews were the next best thing to an invasion force.

They were attacking the Jews before there was a large number of Jews. They legally bought the land from ARAB landowners. The Arabs started the violence when the Mufti took over.

Now it's the fault of the crusades that these groups are calling for genocide when Jews were targeted by the crusades as well.

Nice try.

Stop trying to change the subject. I know the crusaders also massacred Jews. But the point is that they also massacred Muslims, which led to Islamic distrust of the west and subsequientcally Jews.

So events that accured over fifty years ago mean that people who have at this point been living in the area for their entire lives should have to give up what is their home every bit as much as anyone else born in the region? This is why the situation is so fucked up there, they kill jews for displacing them so the jews kill them, so they kill more jews, so they kill moe palestinians, this whole situation is never going to be resolved as long as everyone involved keeps looking at what people half a century ago did and taking it out on the people of today, both sides have this frking problem of tat for tat violence, and it isn't going to stop until both sides stop blaming the other for their actions and knock off killing each other.

BW. As IDF showed, there were muslim SS detachments. Try again. Keeping up the apologetics for groups calling for the extermination of Jews WORLDWIDE and still recognizing the Protocols as legitimate is really pathetic.
And like Jews didn't sell out other Jews to the Holocaust in order to survive?

So, the existance of a Muslim SS Detachment proves that ALL Muslims were Anti-semetic? Hardly. They were no more against the Jews than most Christians or any other group.

Just because there were a few lunatics, doesn't mean that all were.

How do you explain how the Jewish population grew in the Mid East between the two world wars if Jews didn't go there? If they were totally unwelcomed?

Of course the European Jews were unwelcomed because they were bloody foreigners!

Still denying the support that even Hezbollah and Hamas admit they get from Iran I see. Still denying that both groups call for the complete genocide of Jews.

I'm not denying that the Extremist Islamic orginazations call for the genocide of Jews. I'm denying that Iran calls for the genocide of Jews.

Just because someone uses the word 'zionist'?

I used this search query ("define:zionist" ) in google to get the below definition:



Zionist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist)

It's not a racist word against Jews, since it can apply to Non-Jews who support the movement.
I'm referring to the number of posts on NS in the past few weeks calling for the destruction of the Jews. There is a great number of them from gentlemen (can't flame him) Soviestan, Occean Drive, White Seperatists, etc.

Stop trying to change the subject. I know the crusaders also massacred Jews. But the point is that they also massacred Muslims, which led to Islamic distrust of the west and subsequientcally Jews.

Are you just making this up as you go along? So the Crusaders massacred Jews as well as Muslims so that made the Muslims had Jews? What?

Seems like you and K are the ones trying to blame the west for calls of genocide by certain elements of the Arabic world.

Keeping up the apologetics for groups calling for the extermination of Jews WORLDWIDE and still recognizing the Protocols as legitimate is really pathetic.

I AM NOT APOLOGIZING FOR THE EXTREMIST ISLAMIC ORGINAZATIONS! Get that through your head PLEASE! I'm simply denying that Iran is anti-Semtic and is calling for the genocide of Jews.

I'm not denying that the Extremist Islamic orginazations call for the genocide of Jews. I'm denying that Iran calls for the genocide of Jews.

Yet their Gov't supports these organizations publicly and w/ funds and military aid.

Then why did they set up a cartoon competition to see who could best mock jews and the holocaust?
Because the west thought it was just fine to mock the beliefs of the Islamic population with depictions of the prophet, but inappropriate to do anything to offend the Jewish population.

No one heeded the call. They made Jerusalem a Jewish city, disrespecting that the city is a holy city for all three religions.

.
I thought that Jerusalem was taken in one of the wars between Israel and their neighbors.

And like Jews didn't sell out other Jews to the Holocaust in order to survive?

So, the existance of a Muslim SS Detachment proves that ALL Muslims were Anti-semetic? Hardly. They were no more against the Jews than most Christians or any other group.

Just because there were a few lunatics, doesn't mean that all were.

How do you explain how the Jewish population grew in the Mid East between the two world wars if Jews didn't go there? If they were totally unwelcomed?

Of course the European Jews were unwelcomed because they were bloody foreigners!

Why don't you go read my post on the first page and respond to it. You will see it was the PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP who helped push the Nazis towards the Final Solution.

I can see that they don't teach you shit about Middle Eastern history in Canada.

No, they are SUSPECTED to fund Extremist Jihadist orginazations. There is no proof they actually do. And any "proof" you get should be from an unbiased source, like Switzerland. If it comes from America and it's allies, you can be sure that it will say they do, which will be an excuse to invade Iran and set up a pro-western government. If you get it from Iran or it's allies, you can be sure it will say that they don't, for obvious reasons.

Oh? And where else would Hizbollah get their funds? Santa Claus? Iran is the only reasonable and possible source of Hizbollah and other group's funds.

As for your original post, as well as having a lot of ignorance as to the foundation of Israel (Palestine was a British mandate, not a legitimate soverign government), how long do you seriously consider the Israeli people to survive if they were not protected by their state? There are significant groups within each of Israel's neighbours who want the Jews thrown into the sea, and with no IDF no-one would stop them.

An analogy would be if a Village of Jews was located at the bottom of a Valley, and at the top of the Valley there was a huge Dam. The people at the top of the Valley could argue day and night that the Dam is illegitimate, that they were not consulted on its construction and so on, but the fact is, if the Dam was destroyed, a tidal wave would smash down the Valley and sweep away Jewville.

I AM NOT APOLOGIZING FOR THE EXTREMIST ISLAMIC ORGINAZATIONS! Get that through your head PLEASE! I'm simply denying that Iran is anti-Semtic and is calling for the genocide of Jews.

And once again, the Iranian gov't supports the organizations that call for genocide. You're trying to deny that and are hence an apologist for those actions.

Because the west thought it was just fine to mock the beliefs of the Islamic population with depictions of the prophet, but inappropriate to do anything to offend the Jewish population.

And where were the associated riots?

Are you just making this up as you go along? So the Crusaders massacred Jews as well as Muslims so that made the Muslims had Jews? What?

No you fool. I'm saying that the Crusades made the Muslims distrustful of the West, which also made them distrustful of Jews, who were primarily Western in all senses. So when the Jews came with their westernized ideals, the Muslims didn't want to cooperate with them because they were distrustful of the Jews westernized ideals.

No you fool. I'm saying that the Crusades made the Muslims distrustful of the West, which also made them distrustful of Jews, who were primarily Western in all senses. So when the Jews came with their westernized ideals, the Muslims didn't want to cooperate with them because they were distrustful of the Jews westernized ideals.

No, you're just pulling this crap out of your ass to try and justify these actions. Do you have any support for this?

Yet their Gov't supports these organizations publicly and w/ funds and military aid.

Once again... THEY DO NOT SUPPORT THEM. There is no unbiased proof saying that they do.

No you fool. I'm saying that the Crusades made the Muslims distrustful of the West, which also made them distrustful of Jews, who were primarily Western in all senses. So when the Jews came with their westernized ideals, the Muslims didn't want to cooperate with them because they were distrustful of the Jews westernized ideals.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most Jews in Israel Sephardic/Arab Jews?

I thought that Jerusalem was taken in one of the wars between Israel and their neighbors.

Shush now, real facts aren't allowed here, only good facts.

Once again... THEY DO NOT SUPPORT THEM. There is no unbiased proof saying that they do.

Once again, you're just denying the proof. Argentina has the proof, Australia has provided proof. Hezbollah and Hamas both admit to Iranian support. The Iranian president openly supports these organizations.

I guess all those sources are "biased" to you. Pretty sad really.

Oh? And where else would Hizbollah get their funds? Santa Claus? Iran is the only reasonable and possible source of Hizbollah and other group's funds.

Where does Al Qaeda get it's funds? From it's own black markets and criminal activities. That's how Hamas get's it's funds.

How does Hezbollah get it funds? Oh, well it's simple. FROM THE PEOPLE OF LEBANON.

Hezbollah is NOT a terrorist group. They are part of the legitemate government of Lebanon. They get their funds from the taxes collected.

Oh, and don't give me the bullshit "Without Israel the Jews would have no one to protect them" crap. I've debunked that enough times already.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most Jews in Israel Sephardic/Arab Jews?

Yes, but it was set up by and is currently run by Westernized Jews.

Where does Al Qaeda get it's funds? From it's own black markets and criminal activities. That's how Hamas get's it's funds.

How does Hezbollah get it funds? Oh, well it's simple. FROM THE PEOPLE OF LEBANON.

Hezbollah is NOT a terrorist group. They are part of the legitemate government of Lebanon. They get their funds from the taxes collected.

Oh, and don't give me the bullshit "Without Israel the Jews would have no one to protect them" crap. I've debunked that enough times already.

You've debunked crap. So you're now denying that the Iranian gov't supports them even though both groups have admitted it and the Iranian Gov't calls for support of both groups aims.

1. The countries leader's are NOT anti-semites.

2. They believe that Israel is an illegitemate government.

3. Because of #2, they believe that the COUNTRY and GOVERNMENT, not the PEOPLE of Israel should be wiped off the map.

4. If you look back to when Israel was created, you'll see that #2 is true. After the Holocaust, the Jews needed somewhere to stay. So why not the place where the original Jewish Kingdom was? Oh, there's another country there now? And they mean no harm to us? And they are a legitemate government? Oh well! It'll be better for us! Who cares about those silly little Palestianians? They don't want to leave? Well, let's say that if we become a nation we will support one of the current Superpowers, that way they will come in and kick the people who are currently legitemately living there out so that we can move in!

50 years later...

What?!?! People are claiming we are an illegitemate government?!?! But we needed this land! We needed a government! Our people were being massacred! And these people are trying to throw us out just because we moved in without asking? They are evil then, and need to be put down!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wouldn't you be saying the same things if you were the President of Iran?

Then why does Iran train, equip, and otherwise support Hezbollah in their efforts to kill Jews not just in Israel, but elsewhere in the world as well? For example, Hezbollah, with the full blessings and support of Iran, blew up a Jewish community center in Buenos Aires. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

Yes, but it was set up by and is currently run by Westernized Jews.

Ah, the great "Jewish Conspiracy". Now provide evidence.

Once again, you're just denying the proof. Argentina has the proof, Australia has provided proof. Hezbollah and Hamas both admit to Iranian support. The Iranian president openly supports these organizations.

I guess all those sources are "biased" to you. Pretty sad really.

Give me an article or video where the Iranian president says that, or where Hamas says that. Perferably translated and hosted by Al Jazeera. Australia and Argentina are both western-biased. Not to mention reports from there might be "misinterpeted" by CIA agents "filtering" them.

Also, remeber that Hezbollah is NOT a terrorist orginaztion.

Yes, but it was set up by and is currently run by Westernized Jews.
"Westernized", I wouldn't go that far. If they were, Orthodox Jews wouldn't have more power than Reform Jews.

No, they are SUSPECTED to fund Extremist Jihadist orginazations. There is no proof they actually do. And any "proof" you get should be from an unbiased source, like Switzerland. If it comes from America and it's allies, you can be sure that it will say they do, which will be an excuse to invade Iran and set up a pro-western government. If you get it from Iran or it's allies, you can be sure it will say that they don't, for obvious reasons.

Except for the fact that Switzerland doesn't have intelligence resources in the region, they have no need to. The only people who will have resources in the region will be those with an interest, also known as people with a "bias".

You have no idea how intelligence collection and analysis works, do you?

Give me an article or video where the Iranian president says that, or where Hamas says that. Perferably translated and hosted by Al Jazeera. Australia and Argentina are both western-biased. Not to mention reports from there might be "misinterpeted" by CIA agents "filtering" them.

Also, remeber that Hezbollah is NOT a terrorist orginaztion.

And now the cries of "bias", that none of it is true. Everyone is biased except the ones calling for genocide and their apologists. I've shown numerous reports of Iran denying the Holocaust, supporting Hamas and Hezbollah and the H's admitting to it.

Why don't you provide "unbiased" evidence supporting your claims? So far your history lessons have been all wrong.

Because the west thought it was just fine to mock the beliefs of the Islamic population with depictions of the prophet, but inappropriate to do anything to offend the Jewish population.

So it was a revenge attack against the West targeting only jews?

Gotcha

You've debunked crap. So you're now denying that the Iranian gov't supports them even though both groups have admitted it and the Iranian Gov't calls for support of both groups aims.

Once again, unbiased articles or videos translated and hosted by an unbiased or biased towards those groups site that has Hamas or the Iranian government openly admitting that.

Hezbollah is not a god damned terrorist orginazation.

Also, remeber that Hezbollah is NOT a terrorist orginaztion.

So blowing up Jews in Argentina isn't terrorism?

You really are pulling shit out of your ass.

The United States had no connection whatsoever with the El Salvadoran death squads in the eighties. There was no support flowing from Washington to the Contras in Nicaragua either. Also both of those groups were pacifists who never harmed anyone. Calling them "death squads" is a tool of the global communist/islamic conspiracy.

I challenge you to prove that the US did involve itself with those organizations and you must use an unbiased news organization like the American Spectator.


See how dumb your arguments look, New Naliitr?

Then why does Iran train, equip, and otherwise support Hezbollah in their efforts to kill Jews not just in Israel, but elsewhere in the world as well? For example, Hezbollah, with the full blessings and support of Iran, blew up a Jewish community center in Buenos Aires. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

An action, in which I might add, the Argentinian government has confirmed direct Iranian involvement as well.

Once again, unbiased articles or videos translated and hosted by an unbiased or biased towards those groups site that has Hamas or the Iranian government openly admitting that.

Hezbollah is not a god damned terrorist orginazation.

No, it isn't. It's a military and political organisation dedicated to genocide. That's considerably worse.

"Westernized", I wouldn't go that far. If they were, Orthodox Jews wouldn't have more power than Reform Jews.

Why don't you have the courage to respond to my previous posts?

BTW, about 75-80% of Jews in Israel are secularists and not religious by any means.

I've shown numerous reports of Iran denying the Holocaust, supporting Hamas and Hezbollah and the H's admitting to it.
Even if he does (hell, let's just agree that he does), the quote the media loves to throw around of him calling for Israel's destruction IS a mistranslation. He called for the 'regime' to be wiped from the pages of history. That is not the same as calling for the eradication of a race of people.

Once again, unbiased articles or videos translated and hosted by an unbiased or biased towards those groups site that has Hamas or the Iranian government openly admitting that.

Once again, only articles/sources that you personally accept as "unbiased" (ie al jezeera, the most unbiased of them all, right) which translates to none.

Hezbollah is not a god damned terrorist orginazation.

So blowing up resorts and calling for genocide is not terrorism in your book. Gotcha.

http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/Default.asp?NewsCode=42037&NewsKind=Current+Affairs

Except for the fact that Switzerland doesn't have intelligence resources in the region, they have no need to. The only people who will have resources in the region will be those with an interest, also known as people with a "bias".

You have no idea how intelligence collection and analysis works, do you?

I was just giving Switzerland as an example because they are the most unbiased nation in the West. And there will be people who simply want to know what is going on in there, who don't care what the results are.


And now the cries of "bias", that none of it is true. Everyone is biased except the ones calling for genocide and their apologists. I've shown numerous reports of Iran denying the Holocaust, supporting Hamas and Hezbollah and the H's admitting to it.

Why don't you provide "unbiased" evidence supporting your claims? So far your history lessons have been all wrong.

I'm not saying that the Extremist Islamic groups are unbiased. That's why I was calling for an unbiased source (like Switzerland) when asking for information about whether or not Iran supported those groups.

Yes, and where did you get those reports? From western websites, I presume.

And I'm not going to provide evidence to prove something isn't happening. Whenever I bring up the issue of zombies and claim they are real, I always ask for people to bring up evidence that they aren't real or can't exist and they just keep responding with "Give me evidence that they do exist." So I feel like just doing the same thing. I don't need evidence to prove something didn't happen or doesn't exist. But you need evidence to prove something happened or does exist.

Even if he does (hell, let's just agree that he does), the quote the media loves to throw around of him calling for Israel's destruction IS a mistranslation. He called for the 'regime' to be wiped from the pages of history. That is not the same as calling for the eradication of a race of people.

Did I use that quote? No. Did I say he personally called for genocide? No. Go back and read what I said.

I was just giving Switzerland as an example because they are the most unbiased nation in the West. And there will be people who simply want to know what is going on in there, who don't care what the results are.



I'm not saying that the Extremist Islamic groups are unbiased. That's why I was calling for an unbiased source (like Switzerland) when asking for information about whether or not Iran supported those groups.

Yes, and where did you get those reports? From western websites, I presume.

And I'm not going to provide evidence to prove something isn't happening. Whenever I bring up the issue of zombies and claim they are real, I always ask for people to bring up evidence that they aren't real or can't exist and they just keep responding with "Give me evidence that they do exist." So I feel like just doing the same thing. I don't need evidence to prove something didn't happen or doesn't exist. But you need evidence to prove something happened or does exist.



You've claimed that you want an article from Al Jezeera as unbiased. I posted a thread the other day that Argentina has made arrests based on evidence of links to terrorist bombings. Iran SET UP Hezbollah in '82. You've denounced it all as "biased" to apologize for these actions.

Why don't you have the courage to respond to my previous posts?

BTW, about 75-80% of Jews in Israel are secularists and not religious by any means.
Because that requires me to be stoned so I can say something stupid and while replying, not reply at all, so I can really irritate you.

Even still, if they were secular, why did the country FORCE the gay pride movement to cancel its parade? Terrorist threats my ass; it was a guise so the religious fundies could get their goddamn way again. Not secular at all (and don't even bring up Russia; that's state oppression, not religious).

No, it isn't. It's a military and political organisation dedicated to genocide. That's considerably worse.
Not to mention that they're equipped with weapons systems, such as the Fajr-3, that are only produced in Iran.

Regarding Iran, however, I fail to see how a country which includes a permanent seat in the Iranian parliament to represent the Jewish population there has an agenda to wipe out the worlds population of Jews. Surely a country that was so openly anti-sematic would not regard the views of its Jewish citizens as so important?

Not to mention that they're equipped with weapons systems, such as the Fajr-3, that are only produced in Iran.

Along w/ Iranian copies of various anti-tank weapons.

Did I use that quote? No. Did I say he personally called for genocide? No. Go back and read what I said.
It was implied through the use of words.

I was just giving Switzerland as an example because they are the most unbiased nation in the West. And there will be people who simply want to know what is going on in there, who don't care what the results are.


Intelligence resources are not cheap or easy to deploy, as such, you only make use of them IF you feel that your own interests are involved. Not just if you find something mildly amusing. To buy a solid agent within the Iranian government, it would probably cost more than thirty million dollars to run the entire operation. Not to mention the built in risks that are involved in an intelligence action.

No, it isn't. It's a military and political organisation dedicated to genocide. That's considerably worse.

But it isn't a terrorist organization. Not at all.

Ok, I can't keep up. Between my posts there's like, ten more posts that I need to respond to. You may call me a coward for backing down, but I feel like I'm being flooded.

It was implied through the use of words.

BS again. I clearly said the Gov't supports organizations who call for genocide. You can read "implied" all you want, you'ld be as wrong about that as you are history.

But it isn't a terrorist organization. Not at all.

Ok, I can't keep up. Between my posts there's like, ten more posts that I need to respond to. You may call me a coward for backing down, but I feel like I'm being flooded.

That is what happens when you post a thread full of dog shit.

But it isn't a terrorist organization. Not at all.

Ok, I can't keep up. Between my posts there's like, ten more posts that I need to respond to. You may call me a coward for backing down, but I feel like I'm being flooded.

Like I said, blowing up resorts and calling for the extermination of Jews worldwide is not terrorism in your book at all. Good to know.

Like I said, blowing up resorts and calling for the extermination of Jews worldwide is not terrorism in your book at all. Good to know.

Seeing as Iran has a seat in its parliament for the Jewish population in the country to bring its concerns to the government I doubt that Iran intends to eradicate the worlds Jewish population

Seeing as Iran has a seat in its parliament for the Jewish population in the country to bring its concerns to the government I doubt that Iran intends to eradicate the worlds Jewish population

Hezbollah. Both blew up the resort and it's president has called for the death of all Jews.

Seeing as Iran has a seat in its parliament for the Jewish population in the country to bring its concerns to the government I doubt that Iran intends to eradicate the worlds Jewish population

Back in 1938: Hitler's Finance Advisor is Jewish. I doubt Germany intends to eradicate the world's Jewish population.

Seeing as Iran has a seat in its parliament for the Jewish population in the country to bring its concerns to the government I doubt that Iran intends to eradicate the worlds Jewish population

Ever heard of propaganda, and the concept of the Potemkin Village?

Hezbollah. Both blew up the resort and it's president has called for the death of all Jews.

Is this the same president that acknowledged the need for the Jewish population of Iran to gain a political voice and a say in the Iranin parliament?

Seeing as Iran has a seat in its parliament for the Jewish population in the country to bring its concerns to the government I doubt that Iran intends to eradicate the worlds Jewish population

He's talking about Hezbollah, not Iran in the post you quoted. Hezbollah wants to kill Jews everywhere and they're funded, trained and equipped by Iran because they give Iran leverage over all the other nations in the region. Iran can use Hezbollah to cause trouble in and attack the people, infrastructure and economy of any other nation in the Middle East, like they did recently against Israel.

Regarding Iran, however, I fail to see how a country which includes a permanent seat in the Iranian parliament to represent the Jewish population there has an agenda to wipe out the worlds population of Jews. Surely a country that was so openly anti-sematic would not regard the views of its Jewish citizens as so important?

Iran as a whole isn't especially anti-semitic, and never really has been. For one thing, they've tended to be well-educated, and they aren't Arabs, they're Persian, with the tradition of tolerance inherited from the Second Persian Empire (or Empire of Iran and Non-Iran, as it styled itself).

The Khomeini-designed government, however, is in a bit of a bind. The revolution against the Shah was a clear case of "Whatever we get next, it will be better than THIS." (Rather like the Russian Revolution). But the system they've got NEEDS an external enemy to pit itself against - or it will collapse due to internal pressures.

Their original enemy was the US. The problem is, once the US got it's hostages back, it rapidly became clear that the US just didn't give a shit about Iran. Then came salvation, in the form of the Iran-Iraq war, and ten years of guaranteed popular support. Once that ended, and Ayatollah Khomeini died, they felt the only enemy they could worry about (and hopefully get the people behind "the great struggle against") was Israel. Even better, it would get them onside with a lot of their Arab neighbours.

So, they back Hezbollah and make inflammatory speeches. But ultimately, it's all for domestic consumption - which doesn't make the people murdered by Hezbollah any less dead, of course.

Is this the same president that acknowledged the need for the Jewish population of Iran to gain a political voice and a say in the Iranin parliament?

see my above post

Seeing as Iran has a seat in its parliament for the Jewish population in the country to bring its concerns to the government I doubt that Iran intends to eradicate the worlds Jewish population

You do know that their parliament is a sham, right?

Any decision ultimately is vetted by the clerics at the top, so the parliament is effectively impotent in terms of its ability to do anything. It's sort of like the Parlement in pre-Revolution France; they were an advisory body, but ultimately they had to go along with what the king wanted.

If they go against the clerics, the clerics simply refuse to implement it or just dissolve the parliament and call new elections.

Is this the same president that acknowledged the need for the Jewish population of Iran to gain a political voice and a say in the Iranin parliament?

Hezbollah's president said this? Source it.

Back in 1938: Hitler's Finance Advisor is Jewish. I doubt Germany intends to eradicate the world's Jewish population.

Ernst Rohm, leader of the famed SA Nazi Stormtroopers, was openly gay, and he flaunted it, believing that homosexuality should be imported into the Nazi ideology. There's now way that the Nazis would have persecuted homosexuals either.

Hezbollah. Both blew up the resort and it's president has called for the death of all Jews.

He's talking about Hezbollah, not Iran in the post you quoted. Hezbollah wants to kill Jews everywhere and they're funded, trained and equipped by Iran because they give Iran leverage over all the other nations in the region. Iran can use Hezbollah to cause trouble in and attack the people, infrastructure and economy of any other nation in the Middle East, like they did recently against Israel.

I agree that Hezbollah is all of the things you say and is a tool of the Iranian government. However, I do disagree with all of the people on the thread who state that it is Iran's policy to rid the world of the Jews. Its policies towards Israel are not religiously motivated, rather it is an attempt rid the Middle East of a country which has caused Iran problems in the past and further emphasise its anti-American stance seeing as Israel is an ally of America.

I agree that Hezbollah is all of the things you say and is a tool of the Iranian government. However, I do disagree with all of the people on the thread who state that it is Iran's policy to rid the world of the Jews. Its policies towards Israel are not religiously motivated, rather it is an attempt rid the Middle East of a country which has caused Iran problems in the past and further emphasise its anti-American stance seeing as Israel is an ally of America.

So that justifies supporting groups that promote genocide?

I agree that Hezbollah is all of the things you say and is a tool of the Iranian government. However, I do disagree with all of the people on the thread who state that it is Iran's policy to rid the world of the Jews. Its policies towards Israel are not religiously motivated, rather it is an attempt rid the Middle East of a country which has caused Iran problems in the past and further emphasise its anti-American stance seeing as Israel is an ally of America.

What problems has Israel caused Iran in the past? I don't know of any.

I'm actually surprised no one in this thread has brought up the fact that Achmedinejad is part of a sect that believes if the Jews are destroyed, Islam's Messianic figure will rise up.

What problems has Israel caused Iran in the past? I don't know of any.

None, Iran and Israel have never gone to war. Israel in fact probably saved Tehran from being nuked.

I'm actually surprised no one in this thread has brought up the fact that Achmedinejad is part of a sect that believes if the Jews are destroyed, Islam's Messianic figure will rise up.

I thought that one got debunked a while back..?

I thought that one got debunked a while back..?

if it has, then no one gave me the memo. I honestly haven't heard about that one so if you could do me a favor and give me a link so I can check it out myself.

Not saying you're wrong, just that I never heard that it was debunked.

http://www.iranjewish.com/Essay_E/Essay_e1.htm

if it has, then no one gave me the memo. I honestly haven't heard about that one so if you could do me a favor and give me a link so I can check it out myself.

Not saying you're wrong, just that I never heard that it was debunked.

I'm not real sure myself, I just got that impression. Anybody know more?

http://www.iranjewish.com/Essay_E/Essay_e1.htm

Now answer the question as to why the Iranian Gov't supports organizations that call for genocide.

What problems has Israel caused Iran in the past? I don't know of any.

I meant with regards to Israel's problems with other Middle Eastern countries such as Lebanon and Syria, a region which Iran has much influence over.

Now answer the question as to why the Iranian Gov't supports organizations that call for genocide.

See my post above.

I thought that one got debunked a while back..?

It's pretty disputed; nobody really knows for sure. However, I think the group is more interested in the return of the Mahdi than the Jews.

See my post above.

Good point. I changed the wording of the question. I should have retained the "does it justify".

Now answer the question as to why the Iranian Gov't supports organizations that call for genocide.

The government does support these organisations such as Hezbollah but does not support them over their genocide plans. It supports them as it is opposed policies of the Israeli government NOT because it is opposed to the world's Jewish population. If Iran supported the extermination of Jews worldwide, the President would have called for the religion to be wiped off the face of the earth. He did not. He called for the extermination of one country which, depite being an error and disgusting thing for the president to state, does not mean an entire religion.

Good point. I changed the wording of the question. I should have retained the "does it justify".

Well, I would say no, but clearly the Iranian government disagrees with me...

I was just giving Switzerland as an example because they are the most unbiased nation in the West. And there will be people who simply want to know what is going on in there, who don't care what the results are.



I'm not saying that the Extremist Islamic groups are unbiased. That's why I was calling for an unbiased source (like Switzerland) when asking for information about whether or not Iran supported those groups.



Will the BBC do? They hate the West and are big supporters of the Palestinian cause.

Hezbollah - or Party of God - emerged in Lebanon in the early 1980s and became the region's leading radical Islamic movement, determined to drive Israeli troops from Lebanon.

In May 2000 - due partly to the success of the party's military arm - one of its main aims was achieved. Israel's battered and bruised army was forced to end its two-decade occupation of the south.

Hezbollah now serves as an inspiration to Palestinian factions fighting to liberate occupied territory.


Hezbollah has embraced the Palestinian cause
The party, in turn, has embraced the Palestinian cause and has said publicly that it is ready to open a second front against Israel in support of the intifada.

Hezbollah was conceived in 1982 by a group of clerics after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. It was formed primarily to offer resistance to the Israeli occupation.

Inspired by the success of the Iranian Revolution, the party also dreamt of transforming Lebanon's multi-confessional state into an Iranian-style Islamic state. Although this idea was abandoned and the party today is a well-structured political organisation with members of parliament.

Terror

Hezbollah's political rhetoric has centred on calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. Its definition of Israeli occupation has also encompassed the idea that the whole of Palestine is occupied Muslim land and it has argued that Israel has no right to exist.


Hezbollah's spiritual head Sheikh Fadlallah is close to Iran

The party was long supported by Iran, which provided it with arms and money.

In its early days, Hezbollah was close to a contingent of some 2000 Iranian Revolutionary guards, based in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley, which had been sent to Lebanon in 1982 to aid the resistance against Israel.

As Hezbollah escalated its guerrilla attacks on Israeli targets in southern Lebanon, its military aid from Iran increased.

The movement also adopted the tactic of taking Western hostages, through a number of freelance hostage taking cells: The Revolutionary Justice Organisation and the Organisation of the Oppressed Earth, which seized Terry Waite.

For many years, Hezbollah was synonymous with terror, suicide bombings and kidnappings. In 1983, militants who went on to join Hezbollah ranks carried out a suicide bombing attack that killed 241 US marines in Beirut.

Passionate and demanding

The party has operated with neighbouring Syria's blessing - with the guerrilla war against being a card for Damascus to play in its own confrontation with Israel over the occupation of the Golan Heights.

Over the two decades, Hezbollah evolved into a movement with thousands of trained guerrillas, members of parliament and a dynamic welfare programme benefiting thousands of Lebanese.


Hezbollah proved to be a formidable fighting force
It was passionate, demanding of its members and devoted to furthering an Islamic way of life.

In the early days, its leaders imposed strict codes of Islamic behaviour on towns and villages in the south - a move that was not universally popular with the region's citizens.

But, despite the early history of coercion, the party emphasises that its Islamic vision should not be interpreted as an intention to impose an Islamic society on the Lebanese.

Political moves

In recent years, Hezbollah has won considerable backing within Lebanon. Its social services programme was popular with the Shia community.

The group's successful hit-and-run guerrilla war on Israel's much-vaunted army assured it some support and a lot or respect from other religious communities.

While, the US listed the group as a terrorist organisation, the government in Beirut declared it a national resistance movement.

Its popularity with the Shia community - which makes up almost 40% of Lebanon's three million people - was confirmed in the 1992 parliamentary elections when Hezbollah led a successful campaign and won eight seats in parliament.

But it is not popular with all of Lebanon's different communities - the Christians, for example, have accuse it of trying to destabilise the country.

The government does support these organisations such as Hezbollah but does not support them over their genocide plans. It supports them as it is opposed policies of the Israeli government NOT because it is opposed to the world's Jewish population. If Iran supported the extermination of Jews worldwide, the President would have called for the religion to be wiped off the face of the earth. He did not. He called for the extermination of one country which, depite being an error and disgusting thing for the president to state, does not mean an entire religion.

They don't support the "genocide plans" but support them politically, financially, and militarily?

Can you say "politics" and "plausible deniability"?

They don't support the "genocide plans" but support them politically, financially, and militarily?

Can you say "politics" and "plausible deniability"?


Iran funded Hezbollah's attempts to cause damage to Israel and was thus an attempt to attack Israel. However, surely if Iran truely wanted to exterminate Jews it would have begun with the Jews in its own country?

Iran funded Hezbollah's attempts to cause damage to Israel and was thus an attempt to attack Israel. However, surely if Iran truely wanted to exterminate Jews it would have begun with the Jews in its own country?

As I said to Kecibukia - read my post on the previous page.

Iran funded Hezbollah's attempts to cause damage to Israel and was thus an attempt to attack Israel. However, surely if Iran truely wanted to exterminate Jews it would have begun with the Jews in its own country?

Did I say they (Iran) personally wanted genocide? No. That doesn't mean that they aren't anti-semitic nor does it justify the support of those organizations that call for a worldwide extermination of Jews.

Iran as a whole isn't especially anti-semitic, and never really has been. For one thing, they've tended to be well-educated, and they aren't Arabs, they're Persian, with the tradition of tolerance inherited from the Second Persian Empire (or Empire of Iran and Non-Iran, as it styled itself).

The Khomeini-designed government, however, is in a bit of a bind. The revolution against the Shah was a clear case of "Whatever we get next, it will be better than THIS." (Rather like the Russian Revolution). But the system they've got NEEDS an external enemy to pit itself against - or it will collapse due to internal pressures.

Their original enemy was the US. The problem is, once the US got it's hostages back, it rapidly became clear that the US just didn't give a shit about Iran. Then came salvation, in the form of the Iran-Iraq war, and ten years of guaranteed popular support. Once that ended, and Ayatollah Khomeini died, they felt the only enemy they could worry about (and hopefully get the people behind "the great struggle against") was Israel. Even better, it would get them onside with a lot of their Arab neighbours.

So, they back Hezbollah and make inflammatory speeches. But ultimately, it's all for domestic consumption - which doesn't make the people murdered by Hezbollah any less dead, of course.

Agreed.

Iran as a whole isn't especially anti-semitic, and never really has been. For one thing, they've tended to be well-educated, and they aren't Arabs, they're Persian, with the tradition of tolerance inherited from the Second Persian Empire (or Empire of Iran and Non-Iran, as it styled itself).


Agreed.

Did I say they (Iran) personally wanted genocide? No. That doesn't mean that they aren't anti-semitic nor does it justify the support of those organizations that call for a worldwide extermination of Jews.

The country is funding Hezbollah but that does not mean that it is anti-sematic. It is common practice for governments to undermine enemy nations by funding rebel groups opposed to the nation targeted.

Agreed.



The country is funding Hezbollah but that does not mean that it is anti-sematic. It is common practice for governments to undermine enemy nations by funding rebel groups opposed to the nation targeted.

Sure, rebel groups I could see and at times support. Supporting groups calling for (and acting on) genocide is not justifiable and lends support to the Iranian Gov't being anti-semitic, whether using it to further political goals or a strong held belief doesn't matter.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most Jews in Israel Sephardic/Arab Jews?
Nein. I thought most Jews in Israel were Ashkenazi, from America, Russia, then Europe.

Sure, rebel groups I could see and at times support. Supporting groups calling for (and acting on) genocide is not justifiable and lends support to the Iranian Gov't being anti-semitic, whether using it to further political goals or a strong held belief doesn't matter.

In other words, it is anti-semitic by it's actions, if not as a point of doctrine. Would that be accurate?

Sure, rebel groups I could see and at times support. Supporting groups calling for (and acting on) genocide is not justifiable and lends support to the Iranian Gov't being anti-semitic, whether using it to further political goals or a strong held belief doesn't matter.

However, its good treatment of Iranian Jews suggest that Iran is not anti-semitic, rather they are anti-Israel.

In other words, it is anti-semitic by it's actions, if not as a point of doctrine. Would that be accurate?

I could accept that as a definition.

Nein. I thought most Jews in Israel were Ashkenazi, from America, Russia, then Europe.

Actually most are Sephardic. Realize Israel's Ashkenazi population in 1948 was 600,000. Over a million Sephardic Jews were absorbed in the 5 year period from 48-52 after the Muslims kicked them out and made them refugees (a fact no Palestinian will ever mention). That meant that Israel had a larger Sephardic population from the 1950s on. In addition to that, the Sephardic Jews had a higher birth rate.

There are more Ashkenazi Jews in the wrold, but that's because America has 6 million Jews and most of them are Ashkenazi.

However, its good treatment of Iranian Jews suggest that Iran is not anti-semitic, rather they are anti-Israel.

and round and round we go. Sure, they're only anti-Isreal if anti-Isreal is defined as supporting groups that advocate genocide.

However, its good treatment of Iranian Jews suggest that Iran is not anti-semitic, rather they are anti-Israel.

Perhaps. But their actions are not anti-Israel - by supporting an avowedly anti-jewish military/political force, they are actively supporting terror attacks and the avowed purpose of Hezbollah - which is extermination of the Jews. If they were simply interested in the elimination of Israel, they could support less radical organizations, many of which simply see Israel as being the problem and want to end that government, but profess no hatred of Judaism.

Anti-Israeli is different to anti-semitic. Funding a group to make your own ends meet does not mean that you completely support all of their policies, rather Hezbollah's anti-Israeli stance and its conflict with Israel in Lebonan made it a convenient group to fund in Iran's policy of undermining Israel.

1. The countries leader's are NOT anti-semites.

2. They believe that Israel is an illegitemate government.

3. Because of #2, they believe that the COUNTRY and GOVERNMENT, not the PEOPLE of Israel should be wiped off the map.

4. If you look back to when Israel was created, you'll see that #2 is true. After the Holocaust, the Jews needed somewhere to stay. So why not the place where the original Jewish Kingdom was? Oh, there's another country there now? And they mean no harm to us? And they are a legitemate government? Oh well! It'll be better for us! Who cares about those silly little Palestianians? They don't want to leave? Well, let's say that if we become a nation we will support one of the current Superpowers, that way they will come in and kick the people who are currently legitemately living there out so that we can move in!

50 years later...

What?!?! People are claiming we are an illegitemate government?!?! But we needed this land! We needed a government! Our people were being massacred! And these people are trying to throw us out just because we moved in without asking? They are evil then, and need to be put down!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wouldn't you be saying the same things if you were the President of Iran?



the fact that a legal and recognizable government was formed is what a makes a government legit.

Anti-Israeli is different to anti-semitic. Funding a group to make your own ends meet does not mean that you completely support all of their policies, rather Hezbollah's anti-Israeli stance and its conflict with Israel in Lebonan made it a convenient group to fund in Iran's policy of undermining Israel.

Well said. After consideration, I must admit that what would make the most sense for Iran would be to keep Hezbollah at Israel's throat, but never strong enough to succeed - thus providing Iran with an eternal nemesis to play their population against.

the fact that a legal and recognizable government was formed is what a makes a government legit.

Actually, it's the acknowledgment of the people of that nation that makes a government legitimate. If they support it and consider what it did to come into existence right, it's a legitimate government.

No one outside gets a vote.

Well said. After consideration, I must admit that what would make the most sense for Iran would be to keep Hezbollah at Israel's throat, but never strong enough to succeed - thus providing Iran with an eternal nemesis to play their population against.

Exactly.

Is it me or has NS turned into fucking stormfront over the past month?

It's just you.

1. The countries leader's are NOT anti-semites.

2. They believe that Israel is an illegitemate government.

3. Because of #2, they believe that the COUNTRY and GOVERNMENT, not the PEOPLE of Israel should be wiped off the map.

4. If you look back to when Israel was created, you'll see that #2 is true. After the Holocaust, the Jews needed somewhere to stay. So why not the place where the original Jewish Kingdom was? Oh, there's another country there now? And they mean no harm to us? And they are a legitemate government? Oh well! It'll be better for us! Who cares about those silly little Palestianians? They don't want to leave? Well, let's say that if we become a nation we will support one of the current Superpowers, that way they will come in and kick the people who are currently legitemately living there out so that we can move in!

50 years later...

What?!?! People are claiming we are an illegitemate government?!?! But we needed this land! We needed a government! Our people were being massacred! And these people are trying to throw us out just because we moved in without asking? They are evil then, and need to be put down!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wouldn't you be saying the same things if you were the President of Iran?

1) They are anti-jew, so they are anti semitic.
2) I beleive Iran is an illegetimate gov't, does it mean it isn't?
3) No, I am pretty sure they'd like to wipe the entire populace out.
4)Not true. Not true at all. There was never a palestinian state there. Never.
Maybe you should read this. (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mftoc.html)
Myths about the Israeli-arab conflict. Over 10 pages I think. It talks all about the myths of the conflict including the "palestinian state".

_edit_ so you don't have to look all night....http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf1.html#b

Is it me or has NS turned into fucking stormfront over the past month?
I noticed it too. I suspect it's the shockwaves of the whole "let's bomb Lebanon" thing.

Foreign policy failure in action, so to speak.

1. The countries leader's are NOT anti-semites.

2. They believe that Israel is an illegitemate government.

3. Because of #2, they believe that the COUNTRY and GOVERNMENT, not the PEOPLE of Israel should be wiped off the map.

4. If you look back to when Israel was created, you'll see that #2 is true. After the Holocaust, the Jews needed somewhere to stay. So why not the place where the original Jewish Kingdom was? Oh, there's another country there now? And they mean no harm to us? And they are a legitemate government? Oh well! It'll be better for us! Who cares about those silly little Palestianians? They don't want to leave? Well, let's say that if we become a nation we will support one of the current Superpowers, that way they will come in and kick the people who are currently legitemately living there out so that we can move in!

50 years later...

What?!?! People are claiming we are an illegitemate government?!?! But we needed this land! We needed a government! Our people were being massacred! And these people are trying to throw us out just because we moved in without asking? They are evil then, and need to be put down!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wouldn't you be saying the same things if you were the President of Iran?
1. You right they aren't anti-semites. The word semitic actually is term for all languages that developed in the Middle East. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semite. However, they are most definitly against Jews. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad#Holocaust_denial_and_allegations_of_anti-Semitism
2. It would be fine if they just considered them an illegimate government, but the Iranians are calling for the complete destruction of the Israeli state.

It's just you.

No it does seem more "Gentile Power" lately around here.

I noticed it too. I suspect it's the shockwaves of the whole "let's bomb Lebanon" thing.

Foreign policy failure in action, so to speak.

No it does seem more "Gentile Power" lately around here.
I haven't seen many (serious) posts calling for the destruction of the jews. Nor Israel, though I have seen an increase in criticism against that country's policies.

Equating NS to Stormfront is in my mind ridiculous.

Well, it actually is.

You see, the Crusaders were westerners. I can understand them defending Byzantine, but then they had to go all genocidal on the Muslims.

This led to the Muslims being distrustful of westerners, and, subsequiencally, Jews. This therefore led them to not modernizing, therefore not having internationalist views.


Wow, Muslims can't modernise because there were a bunch of wars a long time ago?
It's a good thing that Europe didn't have any wars so they could modernise... wait, I think they might have had wars too.

I cannot fathom these Muslims that being distrustful of "Westerners" suddenly transfer that lack of trust to a group of people quite regularly persecuted by those Westerners.
I guess it must be true though, since we see it today even. Denmark makes some cartoons that offend Muslims and they bizarrely start an offensive cartoon contest of their own, but instead of targetting Denmark, they target Jews.

Look at it from Iran's view, and maybe you won't be as blind.

Why is there a view from Iran at all?

I say we look at it from Canada's point of view, that will obviously enlighten everyone.

I AM NOT APOLOGIZING FOR THE EXTREMIST ISLAMIC ORGINAZATIONS! Get that through your head PLEASE! I'm simply denying that Iran is anti-Semtic and is calling for the genocide of Jews.

then you are an idiot.

You know, in my personal opinion, It doesn't matter what has happened in the past. There is no way on this planet of ours that we will resolve the issue by looking at what people have done, but people want to do, and what people will do.

What we might just need to focus on is this: How do we resolve the issue?

So that there is a comprimise of some sort so that most people are happy (Not just the jews because of the holocaust yada yada.. Remember, we're not looking at the past, we're looking at solutions).

So, that is the question. How do we resolve the issues?

Why is there a view from Iran at all?

I say we look at it from Canada's point of view, that will obviously enlighten everyone.

No I say we look from Khajikstan's view! AAAeee Borat!!

Although I frown on Israel's apartheid, I believe that they have a right to exist. The Holocaust proved the original point of Zionism - that the Jews would not be safe unless they had their own country.