NationStates Jolt Archive

Based off of my view of a better world...

How do you think the world would be like today if all but the first Crusades never happened, and the first Crusade remained only a defensive Crusade?

Based off of my view of a better world...

How do you think the world would be like today if all but the first Crusades never happened, and the first Crusade remained only a defensive Crusade?

Byzantium would remain intact, turkey would cease to be.

Spain would be divided between southern and northern spain.

Due to the absense of the Ottoman Empire, the europeans would lack a common enemy.

Ostro-Hungaria would never come about due to Byzantium being intact.

World War One would most likely be Germany and Byzantium VS Everyone else.

BUT if Byzantium sided with germany, it is likely russia would too as they share the orthodox faith.

the allies would likely lose the war.

World War two would never come about, Byzantium would own eastern europe and arabia.

Germany would own western europe.

Due to the absense of the Ottoman Empire...

What absense? Surely without the Europeans to constantly oppose every expansion of Islamic Imperialism, the Ottoman Caliphate would be MORE successful?

What absense? Surely without the Europeans to constantly oppose every expansion of Islamic Imperialism, the Ottoman Caliphate would be MORE successful?

Without crusades raveging Byzantium, the ottomon empire would never emerge as they came along and Byzantium attacked them. If Byzantium was stronger, theyd win.

Without crusades raveging Byzantium, the ottomon empire would never emerge as they came along and Byzantium attacked them. If Byzantium was stronger, theyd win.

Ah, I see your logic now.

However, bare in mind that Byzantium only began to come under fire in the later Crusades, before that it was already having trouble with the Muslims skirmishing along its borders.

The fact is that even if the Westerners did not come over Byzantium would have been eventually overrun. It is a classic instance of higher morale being essential to winning a conflict, the Muslims were incredibly passionate and, having experienced earlier successes, believed strongly that Islam was the future. Whereas the Byzantine Empire was in a state of constant terminal decline from its very inception, indeed, Byzantine citizens were told constantly that their state was not just the heir of the Roman Empire, but that it WAS the Roman Empire, of course, reality clearly showed to them that their tiny empire had no sway over anything outside their borders, let alone the entire known world. This endemic realist pessimism, superficially hidden under a veneer of Imperial grandiuer meant that Byzantium was doomed from inception.

Ah, I see your logic now.

However, bare in mind that Byzantium only began to come under fire in the later Crusades, before that it was already having trouble with the Muslims skirmishing along its borders.

The fact is that even if the Westerners did not come over Byzantium would have been eventually overrun. It is a classic instance of higher morale being essential to winning a conflict, the Muslims were incredibly passionate and, having experienced earlier successes, believed strongly that Islam was the future. Whereas the Byzantine Empire was in a state of constant terminal decline from its very inception, indeed, Byzantine citizens were told constantly that their state was not just the heir of the Roman Empire, but that it WAS the Roman Empire, of course, reality clearly showed to them that their tiny empire had no sway over anything outside their borders, let alone the entire known world. This endemic realist pessimism, superficially hidden under a veneer of Imperial grandiuer meant that Byzantium was doomed from inception.

Fair enough.
But i have to say, TINY empire??

Eastern europe south of hungary, Naples, Greece, MOST of modern turkey and mediterranian islands east of sicily.
And it wasnt doomed from the start.
It owned exactly half of the roman empire, the richer half too