NationStates Jolt Archive

Why do you think the white man is superior, and what if anything would change your mind? And don't give me that science BS, we both know our opinions were formed before we had a real grasp of such things. If nothing will convince you otherwise, then answer the first part. (I would do a poll, but all the options would probably be offensive)

Shiny magicks!

Hell if I know, I've got none of those white supremacy types of feelings.

The same question could be ask of any Supremacists, not just the whites.

The same question could be ask of any Supremacists, not just the whites.

Well yes, but I'm assuming there will be more white supremacists on this board. I know there are at least two, and haven't seen any other hate groups represented.

Well yes, but I'm assuming there will be more white supremacists on this board. I know there are at least two, and haven't seen any other hate groups represented.

Yea, but just to be fair, don't you think you should address this to all supremacists? I mean whites aren't the only group to have people who think they are superior to all other races.

Yea, but just to be fair, don't you think you should address this to all supremacists? I mean whites aren't the only group to have people who think they are superior to all other races.

*yawns*

Yea, but just to be fair, don't you think you should address this to all supremacists? I mean whites aren't the only group to have people who think they are superior to all other races.

Maybe. But I'm too lazy to ask the mods to change it.

Maybe. But I'm too lazy to ask the mods to change it.

Lazy ass! :p

White people are superior because God is a middle aged Anglo-Saxon.
Duh.
;)

Lazy ass! :p

You're damn skippy. :D
White people are superior because God is a middle aged Anglo-Saxon.
Duh.;)
I demand a source:p;)

IMHO, they do not truly beleive in the supremacy of their race. The members are often unemployed blue-collar persons with minimal income. The see themselves as inadaquate but ressolve this internal conflict by having a lower opinion of another group - such as people of other ethnicities.

I demand a source:p;)

You dont trust me? Im hurt.:(

You dont trust me? Im hurt.:(

Awwww. Poor you. I'll let you know when I start to care, k? :p

I'm not a white supremist, but I do believe we have a right to be smug about out achievements.

IMHO, they do not truly beleive in the supremacy of their race. The members are often unemployed blue-collar persons with minimal income. The see themselves as inadaquate but ressolve this internal conflict by having a lower opinion of another group - such as people of other ethnicities.
This is my take on it, too. It's pecking-order thinking. For people who think they are low on the totem pole, it seems to hurt less if they think someone else is lower.

I'm not a white supremist, but I do believe we have a right to be smug about out achievements.
A) That's one of the big lies of white supremacists, though. When challenged, they make claims about the accomplishments of white culture (as if there is such a thing), but in fact, their only real measure of superiority/inferiority is race. They don't really care about culture; they only bring it up as a justification, when they're trying to claim they're about loving whiteness, not hating other people.

B) Also, whose achievements do you think white people have a right to be smug about? If I had developed the printing press or the space program, and some jackass who never did anything with his life but bitch about other people's skin color was going about taking some kind of vicarious credit for MY work, I'd be pretty pissed off. He wants to be smug about something, let him shift his lazy ass and get to work. There's an old joke, the punchline of which is "What do you mean 'we', white man?", which I think would be the appropriate response to a white supremacist bragging about "white" accomplishments that he had nothing to do with.

I'm not a white supremist, but I do believe we have a right to be smug about our achievements.

"our achievements"?, you can't pretend that you had anything to do with any of the achievements you are probably thinking of. If you see a person of a particular race dealing drugs, it doesn't mean all of that race are drug dealers. Equally, if a white person discovers a cure for cancer, the glory isn't shared by all white people. Racism is when people group people according to race.

I'm not a white supremist, but I do believe we have a right to be smug about out achievements.

now would that be genocide, slavery, or sitcoms?

White? My skin isn't white, and I know no one who's got a white skin, not even albinoes. My skin is a sort of pale rose/pink.

The White/Black thing looks like:
White=pureness, good, snow, innocence, love
Black=sin, evil, coal, guilt, hate

So I refuse to call myself "White": since my skin colour is pink, I'll call myself a "Pink". Similarily, if I have to tell the skin colour of a typical african, I'll say that he's "Brown", not "Black".

Pink: roses
Brown: chocolate
Both smell good, don't they?:D

now would that be genocide, slavery, or sitcoms?

It would be Beethoven, Clausewitz and Einstein.

It would be Beethoven, Clausewitz and Einstein.

Neither of whose accomplishments have anything to do with you.

It would be Beethoven, Clausewitz and Einstein.

I'm going to have to step in here.

I HATE when people say "We" when it comes to accomplishments that they never even did.

YOU did NOT create E=MC(squared). Nor did you create a beautiful song such as Ode to Joy, nor did you create Vom Kriege.

Similarily, I'm Muslim. I can't say I conquered Cordoba, fought in the Crusades, nor can I say that I created Algebra.

You should really say that "they" made these accomplishments, for you had nothing to do with them.

Just my two cents on the matter. Nothing against you, just what you said.

I think the main reason why white supremacists believe their race is superior is that they have grown up in a world that is dominated by predominantly white countries, and that the history they are taught is that for many centuries the world has been dominated white nations, and that the histories of such nations as the Ottoman empire, Persia, India, Ethiopia, China, and the hisotry of the Arabic Caliphates, along with the rest of the history of the cradle of civilisation is ignored and forgotten.

now would that be genocide, slavery, or sitcoms?

Kill 'em all and let a Norse god sort 'em out.

I'm going to have to step in here.

I HATE when people say "We" when it comes to accomplishments that they never even did.

YOU did NOT create E=MC(squared). Nor did you create a beautiful song such as Ode to Joy, nor did you create Vom Kriege.

Similarily, I'm Muslim. I can't say I conquered Cordoba, fought in the Crusades, nor can I say that I created Algebra.

You should really say that "they" made these accomplishments, for you had nothing to do with them.

Just my two cents on the matter. Nothing against you, just what you said.

Don't be jealous just because my race is awesome.

Kill 'em all and let a Norse god sort 'em out.

Send em to Loki I say!

I think the main reason why white supremacists believe their race is superior is that they have grown up in a world that is dominated by predominantly white countries, and that the history they are taught is that for many centuries the world has been dominated white nations, and that the histories of such nations as the Ottoman empire, Persia, India, Ethiopia, China, and the hisotry of the Arabic Caliphates, along with the rest of the history of the cradle of civilisation is ignored and forgotten.

Now why do you think that is?

Now why do you think that is?

Because people are idiots.

Because people are idiots.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a wiener! ;)

Ding, ding, ding! We have a wiener! ;)

Yum, wiener. Damn I'm hungry.

now would that be genocide, slavery, or sitcoms?

only sitcoms were invented by the whiteman

Why do people make such a big deal over race? Like it's something sensitive. I take being proud of the achievements of the white race the same as being proud of the achievements of Melbourne Victory FC or the achievements of my house at school; I didn't do anything, but I'm entitled to be a bit proud because I'm there.

only sitcoms were invented by the whiteman

Jews don't count as white people, silly.

Why do people make such a big deal over race? Like it's something sensitive. I take being proud of the achievements of the white race the same as being proud of the achievements of Melbourne Victory FC or the achievements of my house at school; I didn't do anything, but I'm entitled to be a bit proud because I'm there.

No, no you're not. You're just trying to leech off the excellence of others.

Why do people make such a big deal over race? Like it's something sensitive. I take being proud of the achievements of the white race the same as being proud of the achievements of Melbourne Victory FC or the achievements of my house at school; I didn't do anything, but I'm entitled to be a bit proud because I'm there.

Being proud of "the achievements of the white race" is equivilant to being proud of the achievements of blonde people.

Similarily, I'm Muslim. I can't say I conquered Cordoba, fought in the Crusades, nor can I say that I created Algebra.


I know your just making a point, but you know muslims did not create Algebra, but did contribute substantially to it

No, no you're not. You're just trying to leech off the excellence of others.

Ok, so let's just stop following football. Stop doing well at school. Boy, let's just work entirely for ourselves, shall we? Fuck society.

Why do I get the feeling you'd be perfectly at home in Rapture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioshock#Initial_story)?

Being proud of "the achievements of the white race" is equivilant to being proud of the achievements of blonde people.

I suppose you could be, and I'm sure it's been brought up in a conversation or two.

I suppose you could be, and I'm sure it's been brought up in a conversation or two.

You could be proud of anything for any reason, that wouldn't make it less ridiculous.

Why do people make such a big deal over race? Like it's something sensitive. I take being proud of the achievements of the white race the same as being proud of the achievements of Melbourne Victory FC or the achievements of my house at school; I didn't do anything, but I'm entitled to be a bit proud because I'm there.
(Bolds mine)

I'm going to set aside, for the time being, the issue of taking pride in achievements that aren't yours. Which, for the record, is something I have always found to be pretty silly.

But more important is the question of why you feel a sense of "pride by association" with people simply by virtue of race. Unless you feel that their achievements are due to their race in some way, there is absolutely no reason for you to share in their success.

But more important is the question of why you feel a sense of "pride by association" with people simply by virtue of race. Unless you feel that their achievements are due to their race in some way, there is absolutely no reason for you to share in their success.

Well yes, I do, acutally. I don't think we're better, but there's got to be some reason why whites have done so much more that some other races. The same applies to the Chinese and Indians.

I'm quite proud of my children's accomplishments and my husband's and even of my country's accomplishments.

Why is it ridicules to be proud of the accomplishments of others?

I would have to say that pride in one's gender or race is pretty broad, but, if it's what you take pride in, why not?

I was once offered an award for being a "woman in business." I turned it down, rather angrily, because I think it is stupid to give me an award for being born a female. Give me an award for achieving a great business, but not because I'm a chick.

Well yes, I do, acutally. I don't think we're better, but there's got to be some reason why whites have done so much more that some other races. The same applies to the Chinese and Indians.
And what, specifically, are the qualities of race that determine such successes?

Is it not possible that different groups have had differing successes based on things like, for instance, the climate in which they lived? We know that certain areas of the world present different benefits and perils for humans who live there, and it is logical to assume that cultures will develop differently based on these environments. I would hope that recent events would have underscored the impact that natural disasters can have on human civilizations, as well.

Is it not possible that the interactions between certain groups may also have influenced their successes and failures? We cannot know what a given culture might have done if history had gone in another direction, so how can we assume that racial differences are exclusively responsible for how the world has turned out?

Frankly, I think it's just naive and wishful thinking to chalk up a culture's successes to some biological superiority inherent in their "race." It's a gross oversimplification that requires both an amazing ignorance of fundamental biology and also a total determination to not learn a single thing from history.

I'm quite proud of my children's accomplishments and my husband's and even of my country's accomplishments.

Why is it ridicules to be proud of the accomplishments of others?

Nobody is suggesting that you shouldn't be proud of the accomplishments of others. They are saying that YOU, personally, shouldn't feel pride in those accomplishments as if they were your own. Feeling proud of a friend when they do something awesome is different than personally taking pride in an accomplishment that you didn't actually participate in.


I would have to say that pride in one's gender or race is pretty broad, but, if it's what you take pride in, why not?

I was once offered an award for being a "woman in business." I turned it down, rather angrily, because I think it is stupid to give me an award for being born a female. Give me an award for achieving a great business, but not because I'm a chick.
You answer your own question, I think.

I don't see any reason to be proud of things that I didn't achieve. I didn't do anything to be born female, or pale-skinned, or small of frame. Why should I take pride in accidents of my birth? I can be happy about them, sure, and thankful that I was born as I am, but pride? That should be reserved for situations where I have actually done something.

You appear to feel the same way. Would you want to receive awards for having been born with a particular skin tone? Would you take pride in having a particular natural hair color?

I don't automatically share anything with other pale-skinned people, other than the fact that we express similar levels of dermal melanin. They may have totally different values, experiences, and behaviors from mine. At the same time, I may share a tremendous amount with a person who has a different skin tone than my own. Why should I feel kinship based on dermal melanin, or the shape of one's nose, or the texture of one's hair? None of these things are the source of a person's genius or talent or character.

(Bolds mine)

I'm going to set aside, for the time being, the issue of taking pride in achievements that aren't yours. Which, for the record, is something I have always found to be pretty silly.

But more important is the question of why you feel a sense of "pride by association" with people simply by virtue of race. Unless you feel that their achievements are due to their race in some way, there is absolutely no reason for you to share in their success.

I am inclined to agree, which I why I believe things such as "Black history month" and other things that celebrate the accomplishments of any ethnic group. I am also strongly against affirmative action because it almost promotes a sort of white supremacist attitude by making it seem like minorities need help to compete with the white majority. Race and gender should not be considered in any way, whether positively or negatively.

Am I proud to be a white male? Well, not particularly. Am I ashamed of it? Most definitely not.

Ok, so let's just stop following football. Stop doing well at school. Boy, let's just work entirely for ourselves, shall we? Fuck society.

Why do I get the feeling you'd be perfectly at home in Rapture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioshock#Initial_story)?

yes we should work for society but not for the color of our skin.

Don't be jealous just because my race is awesome.

Which 'race' are you? Jewish Viennese, like Einstein? Prussian, like Clausewitz? German, like Beethoven?

Or are you implying all are 'white' - and that that is your 'race'?

I find it humorous that another person (regardless of the board) is using the race-baiting game of "hey, white supremacists insert question here". All that ever turns into is utter and pure crap. Anybody who harbors the views and opinions you are seeking out will more-than-likely not answer these questions. The people who post these questions are aware of this, yet they keep asking them.

Race exists to anyone with at least 1 adequately functioning eye and a brain. That doesn't make it a bad thing or a good thing. It's just that: a thing. It depends upon the constitution of the individual's moral fiber and what they decide to do with that information.

Which 'race' are you? Jewish Viennese, like Einstein? Prussian, like Clausewitz? German, like Beethoven?

Or are you implying all are 'white' - and that that is your 'race'?

White, but if you must be specific, German in general.

Why do people make such a big deal over race? Like it's something sensitive. I take being proud of the achievements of the white race the same as being proud of the achievements of Melbourne Victory FC or the achievements of my house at school; I didn't do anything, but I'm entitled to be a bit proud because I'm there.

So - despite you having made no contribution, and despite your ONLY connection to the people who really HAVE done things with their lives being that your skin is a similar shade to theirs... you feel you can legitimately feel 'proud' of the things other people might have done centuries before you even existed?

Which 'race' are you? Jewish Viennese, like Einstein? Prussian, like Clausewitz? German, like Beethoven?

Or are you implying all are 'white' - and that that is your 'race'?
Spot on.

It really shows that all racists care about is the superficial. The actual cognitive, cultural, substantive differences are brushed aside so that people can be grouped together based on skin color and bone structure. How disappointingly shallow.

So - despite you having made no contribution, and despite your ONLY connection to the people who really HAVE done things with their lives being that your skin is a similar shade to theirs... you feel you can legitimately feel 'proud' of the things other people might have done centuries before you even existed?

Yes.

White, but if you must be specific, German in general.

It isn't a matter of whether or not I am being specific - the Jewish stock is Middle Eastern by our current standards... and two of the three people you claim to be 'proud' of are not German...

It sounds to me like the 'race' and 'nationality' you CHOOSE to include as your own, varies with who you want to claim kinship to.

It isn't a matter of whether or not I am being specific - the Jewish stock is Middle Eastern by our current standards... and two of the three people you claim to be 'proud' of are not German...

It sounds to me like the 'race' and 'nationality' you CHOOSE to include as your own, varies with who you want to claim kinship to.

Prussians and Austrians are (or at least were) considered German.

Why do I get the feeling this is because I'm white? Would you be probing me like this if I was black, and was proud of Martin Luther King?

Yes.

We shall have to agree to disagree.

You might be a genius, but - if you walked into a company I owned, and presented as your credentials the fact that you were Jewish, and so was Einstein, I would be regretting my choice not to wear a diaper to work, since I would be wetting myself with laughter as i explained to you which way the door was.

So would you say that anyone who isn't white is inherently inferior to you?

We shall have to agree to disagree.

You might be a genius, but - if you walked into a company I owned, and presented as your credentials the fact that you were Jewish, and so was Einstein, I would be regretting my choice not to wear a diaper to work, since I would be wetting myself with laughter as i explained to you which way the door was.

Well, I wouldn't. That, to me, would be the same was walking into the offices of Manchester United, and saying that my credentials were the fact that I followed Melbourne Victory FC.

So would you say that anyone who isn't white is inherently inferior to you?

No. "The cards you are dealt is determinism; how you play them is free will."

Now why do you think that is?Nationalism pretty much. That is to say -
Because people are idiots.

Prussians and Austrians are (or at least were) considered German.

Why do I get the feeling this is because I'm white? Would you be probing me like this if I was black, and was proud of Martin Luther King?

Of course I would. Respecting the achievements of an individual is one thing - implying that it somehow reflects on you is an entirely different (and hilariously ridiculous) matter.

As to whether Prussians and/or Austrians are/were German... you must realise what a desperate grasp at straws THAT is... should british people be proud of the achievements of Asoka... since India was once part of the british 'empire'? Should the white american feel a surge of pride at the civilisation of the Anasazi... just because they once shared the same borders?

It is a joke... a coping mechanism to enable those who haven't done anything worthwhile, to feel some validation in the achievements of those they choose to claim as their own.

Well yes, I do, acutally. I don't think we're better, but there's got to be some reason why whites have done so much more that some other races. The same applies to the Chinese and Indians.

Culture - not race.

For Europeans, heritages from Roman world.
For Chinese, three millennia as an unified country.
About the same for Indians.

Race doesn't mean anything. Europe is a huge jigsaw puzzle of different ethnical groups: Mediterraneans, Kelts, Italici, Greeks, Slavs, Germans, Goths, Arabs, Vandals, Huns, Jews, Sami, Mongols, Turks, Gypsies etc... The Chinese and the Indians are mixed with the Mongols...
Culture is the key.

Jewish Viennese, like Einstein?

Actually, I think that Albert Einstein was a german jew. Born in Ulm - Bayern.

As to whether Prussians and/or Austrians are/were German... you must realise what a desperate grasp at straws THAT is... should british people be proud of the achievements of Asoka... since India was once part of the british 'empire'? Should the white american feel a surge of pride at the civilisation of the Anasazi... just because they once shared the same borders?

No, it's not. Prussians and Austrians were DEFINITELY considered 100% German, until after WWII, when the Allies told the world it was bad to be German. Prussians, Austro-Bavarians, Alemanni, Saxons, etc. just form different regions of Germany.

Well, I wouldn't. That, to me, would be the same was walking into the offices of Manchester United, and saying that my credentials were the fact that I followed Melbourne Victory FC.

Not at all - it is exactly what you are doing - you are claiming there is something special about a 'race' which you can define only as 'white', and the borders for which you CHOOSE to define or redefine to include people that have no connection to you, or a tenuous connection at best.

And, let's be serious about it - 'white' or any other 'supremacy' in Europe is a mockery, since the European 'peoples' are mutts... thousands of years of conquering and being conquered by 'foreigners'.

If European people had any claim to 'supremacy', it would be exactly the OPPOSITE of the concept of a 'pure race'.

No, it's not. Prussians and Austrians were DEFINITELY considered 100% German, until after WWII, when the Allies told the world it was bad to be German. Prussians, Austro-Bavarians, Alemanni, Saxons, etc. just form different regions of Germany.

Then why did the Unified German Empire form without Austria?

Then why did the Unified German Empire form without Austria?

Because Austria wasn't a small weak German state; it was already a powerful empire, and there was no way in hell that the Habsburgs were going to give up their empire. During unification, Wilhelm I was given the title "German Emperor"; he had to deliberately avoid the title "Emperor of Germany" because it implied ownership of Austria.

No, it's not. Prussians and Austrians were DEFINITELY considered 100% German, until after WWII, when the Allies told the world it was bad to be German. Prussians, Austro-Bavarians, Alemanni, Saxons, etc. just form different regions of Germany.

Prussia was considered Prussia when Clausewitz was born there, right? When he fought in the Prussian army? When he wrote 'Philosophy of War'?

The fact that national borders and political models shift around, doesn't alter the fact that Clausewitz would have called himself Prussian.

Because Austria wasn't a small weak German state; it was already a powerful empire, and there was no way in hell that the Habsburgs were going to give up their empire. During unification, Wilhelm I was given the title "German Emperor"; he had to deliberately avoid the title "Emperor of Germany" because it implied ownership of Austria.

Exactly!! so instead of going for race they went along Nationalistic lines. So race really isn't as important as it is made out to be.

Exactly!! so instead of going for race they went along Nationalistic lines. So race really isn't as important as it is made out to be.

The formation of the empire was human choice; did I ever say that race overrode choice?

The formation of the empire was human choice; did I ever say that race overrode choice?

I'll I'm saying is that race really doesn't have to do with superiority or inferiorty. They are created by the actions of a person. So what defines a person isn't the color of their skin, its who they are and what they do.

No, it's not. Prussians and Austrians were DEFINITELY considered 100% German

WHAAT? Prussian and Austrians ethnically 100% Germans?
Prussians are extremely mixed with Slavs and Goths since they began spreading east in the Middle Age. Austrians are similarily mixed with Slavs, Magyars, Alpine Kelts and Italians at least since the 30-years war.

The myth of the "germanic" "pure" race represented by Prussians was invented in the late XIX century by a stupid French racist - can't recall his name, anyway I do hope he got killed by germans in WW1, that would be ironic.

added: The mere presence throughout Prussia of names like "Clausewitz" or towns like "Pankow" do tell how deeply they're mixed with the slavic people... try writing "Clausewitz" like this: "Klosevice".

WHAAT? Prussian and Austrians ethnically 100% Germans?
Prussians are extremely mixed with Slavs and Goths since they began spreading east in the Middle Age.

The actual nation of Prussia would have been majority German. I never said that there were not Slavic minorities living there.

And, uh... the Goths were a Germanic tribe.

Austrians are similarily mixed with Slavs, Magyars, Alpine Kelts and Italians at least since the 30-years war.

The same as Prussia on minorities, but there was also the Austrian Empire to take into account; only the Austrian part of the empire was considered German. The rest was know as the Kingdom of Hungary.

added: The mere presence throughout Prussia of names like "Clausewitz" or towns like "Pankow" do tell how deeply they're mixed with the slavic people... try writing "Clausewitz" like this: "Klosevice".

Many names get tossed around a lot, but he was probably German for generations back. Or at the very least, had some recent German relations. Like me, I'm half German and half Ukrainian. My surname is considered Ukrainian, but it's not a typical name; my dad theorises that it got thrown in sometime during one of the invasions centuries back.

EDIT: I forgot about Clausewitz; his name was VON Clausewitz. Meaning that in theory, he could be German, but could have a "von" name from anywhere in the world. He could have been Karl von Muscovy or Karl von Boston.

Then why did the Unified German Empire form without Austria?

Because Prussia was more powerful and would not let them.

Because Prussia was more powerful and would not let them.

Actually, I would have thought that it would be the other way around. Or at least, neither the Hohenzollerns nor the Habsburgs would let their nations join an empire led by the other.

The actual nation of Prussia would have been majority German. I never said that there were not Slavic minorities living there.

And, uh... the Goths were a Germanic tribe.


You miss the pointh, though...

You might want to claim Prussians or Goths as part of YOUR 'heritage', but they might well have wanted nothing to do with your milktoast 21st century 'Germany'.

You miss the pointh, though...

You might want to claim Prussians or Goths as part of YOUR 'heritage', but they might well have wanted nothing to do with your milktoast 21st century 'Germany'.

I never said they did. I don't exactly admire modern Germany.

wow some of the ignorance here is impressive.

First of Prussia.
A majority of the people there would have been many of the Balts tribes that had lived in the area for millenia. This people were germanizes or polonised for the most part, but most of the population was local.

Most of the peoples of europe are NOT germanic or celtic, etc.. genetically.

some from wiki.

"Germanic" as understood today is a linguistic term. Modern ethnicities speaking Germanic languages are usually not referred to as Germanic peoples, a term of historic scope. Outside of Scandinavia, present-day countries speaking a Germanic language have mixed ethnic roots not restricted to the earliest Germanic peoples.

Germanic peoples were often quick to assimilate into foreign cultures. Established examples include the Romanized Norsemen in Normandy, and the societal elite in medieval Russia among whom many were the descendants of Slavified Norsemen (a theory, however, contested by some Slavic scholars in the former Soviet Union, who name it the Normanist theory).

England is similarly considered an example of assimilation, where elements of the culture of the migrating Angles, Saxons and Jutes merged with that of the indigenous Celtic speaking Britons, resulting in an English identity for the inhabitants of that land. The later (mid-11th century) arriving French-speaking Norsemen similarly altered what was known as Anglo-Saxon England and set the English language on the path from Old English to Middle English.

As in England, Scotland's indigenous Brythonic Celtic culture in the southeast succumbed to Germanic influence due to Teutonic invasion; while the Scottish Highlands and Galloway retained a Gaelic heritage due to the recent immigration from Ireland which planted the Gaelic culture there and the southwest remained predominently Briton until adopting Gaelic under Alba and later almost the entire Scottish Lowlands became Scots speaking as a result of the reforms of the 11th and twelfth centuries. The Scots language is the resulting Germanic language now spoken in Scotland and similar to the regional variation of English in the north of England, Geordie (or Northumbrian). The Orkney Islands and Shetland Islands, though a part of Scotland, were historically Scandinavian in culture, though they no longer speak their native language Norn as an influx of Scots speaking Scots resulted in its displacement.

France saw a great deal of Germanic settlement, and even its namesake the Franks were a Germanic people. Entire regions of France (such as Alsace, Burgundy and Normandy) were settled heavily by Germanic peoples, contributing to their unique regional cultures and dialects. But most of the languages spoken in France today are Romance languages, while the people have a heavy Gallic substratum that predates Latin and Germanic settlement.

Portugal and Spain also had a great measure of Germanic settlement, due to the Visigoths and the Suevi (Quadi and Marcomanni), who settled permanently. The Vandals (Silingi and Hasdingi) were also present, before moving on to North Africa, where they were absorbed into the local population. Many Spanish words of Germanic origin entered into the Spanish language at this time and many more entered through other avenues (often French) in the ensuing centuries.

Italy, especially the area north of the city of Rome, has also had a history of heavy Germanic settlement. Germanic tribes such as the Visigoths, Vandals, and Ostrogoths had successfully invaded and sparsely settled Italy in the 5th century AD. Most notably, in the 6th century AD, the Germanic tribe known as the Lombards entered and settled primarily in the area known today as Lombardy. The Normans, a partially Germanic people, also conquered and ruled Sicily and parts of southern Italy for a time.

Germany itself assimilated Slavic and Baltic peoples to the east in medieval and modern times (Ostsiedlung); after World War II their descendants spread to other parts of Germany as Vertriebene. Going further back, most of the current territory of Germany was occupied by Celtic and Nordwestblock tribes who were eventually linguistically assimilated into the Germanic peoples.

You dont trust me? Im hurt.:(

You're damn right I don't trust filthy alien scum! :p

First of Prussia.
A majority of the people there would have been many of the Balts tribes that had lived in the area for millenia. This people were germanizes or polonised for the most part, but most of the population was local.

The key word is "Germanised." Byt the advent of the Kingdom of Prussia and the German Empire, most people of the empire would have been considered German, and would have fairly German ethnic line. I know that Prussia was originally Polish and Livonian, the the Teutonic Knights changed that.

2 links for you to read, the articles disputed, but some of the information is backed up with sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Saharan_DNA_admixture_in_Europe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_History_of_Europe

The key word is "Germanised." Byt the advent of the Kingdom of Prussia and the German Empire, most people of the empire would have been considered German, and would have fairly German ethnic line. I know that Prussia was originally Polish and Livonian, the the Teutonic Knights changed that.

yes they conquered it, and the culture slowly became germanized. Or are you claiming they slaughtered the entire population and there was huge migration from germany???

If you can provide a source for this I'd be grateful

Not every population has been studied yet, but enough have so that a picture is starting to emerge. The amount of Black admixture in Europe today ranges from a few percent in the Iberian Peninsula to almost nil around the Baltic. It seems to show a decreasing cline from the Southwest to the Northeast, which corresponds with the areas most affected by the African slave trade or the Moorish (North Africa) expansion.

I never said there wasn't genetic relations between all humans; but hell, humans share 98% or something with chimps, and 50% of their DNA with bananas.

yes they conquered it, and the culture slowly became germanized. Or are you claiming they slaughtered the entire population and there was huge migration from germany???

If you can provide a source for this I'd be grateful

See, I was just about to type something, and then I remembered that my original point was about white people; I don't remember saying that Germans were a race unto themselves.

Ok, so let's just stop following football.
Yes
Stop doing well at school.
Doing well in school is your own accomplishment
Boy, let's just work entirely for ourselves, shall we? Fuck society.
I want credit for what I do, I hope it benifits someone else in some way but I wouldn't want the white race to feel they had accomplished something that I did, I have no relation to a white person anymore then I do a black person and what I do doesn't reflect individuals in either group.

I want credit for what I do, I hope it benifits someone else in some way but I wouldn't want the white race to feel they had accomplished something that I did, I have no relation to a white person anymore then I do a black person and what I do doesn't reflect individuals in either group.

I'd be extremely annoyed if I did something great and my race, culture and nation weren't proud of it. You aren't remembered for what you do for yourself; you are remembered for what you do for your people.

The actual nation of Prussia would have been majority German. I never said that there were not Slavic minorities living there.
And since they were there, they mixed. Do you think they kept "racial purity"?


the Goths were a Germanic tribe.

Depends on definitions. At school, I've been taught that Germanic peoples are divided in three major groups: Western Germans lived near the Rhine and were called "Germans" altogether by Romans - and were romanised, and some of them, the "Franci Salii" become the French; Eastern Germans (Goths), to whom belonged the tribes of Langobards, Visigoths, Ostrogoths; and Northern Germans (Norse).
If you look at the language, the more "gothic" languages today are spoken by latvians and lithuanians.


The same as Prussia on minorities, but there was also the Austrian Empire to take into account; only the Austrian part of the empire was considered German. The rest was know as the Kingdom of Hungary.

No. Lombardy and Venice were part of the Empire, too. But not Kingdom of Hungary. And they all mixed blood, so no purity everywhere in the Empire.


Many names get tossed around a lot, but he was probably German for generations back.
He was "mostly" german, of course. But the fact that slavic elements have been embedded in the prussian culture is a tell-tale.

I'd be extremely annoyed if I did something great and my race, culture and nation weren't proud of it. You aren't remembered for what you do for yourself; you are remembered for what you do for your people.

Like Hitler?

He did all kinds of great things for his race, culture and nation.


But - that's a digression. The fact is - Einstein did some cool stuff. You didn't.

What he did was great - for him. But it makes you no better. Any 'glory' you think you obtain from his achievement is stolen.

See, I was just about to type something, and then I remembered that my original point was about white people; I don't remember saying that Germans were a race unto themselves.

FINE:upyours:

still if you have a link (not to be discussed here) it would still be of interest.

So do you classify berbers are white?
Also what about spaniards, greeks, italians, etc...
Is it all europeans are white to you or something else?

I never said they did. I don't exactly admire modern Germany.

So... they are not 'your people'. They don't know you, and they wouldn't want you.

So do you classify berbers are white?
Also what about spaniards, greeks, italians, etc...
Is it all europeans are white to you or something else?

I believe race is gradient, not solid.

So... they are not 'your people'. They don't know you, and they wouldn't want you.

No, Germany wouldn't want me. I'm too down to earth and realistic.

Well, the neo-Nazis who went on a rampage in Frankfurt on Oder recently would probably want me, but I don't think I'd want them.

What he did was great - for him. But it makes you no better. Any 'glory' you think you obtain from his achievement is stolen.

Wow, you're just as anti-community as Fass. Go live in Rapture.

No, Germany wouldn't want me. I'm too down to earth and realistic.

Well, the neo-Nazis who went on a rampage in Frankfurt on Oder recently would probably want me, but I don't think I'd want them.

Down to earth? Realistic?

You seem to believe you can somehow cash in on reflected achievements of other peoples, unrelated to you by nation or by blood. Hardly realistic.

I'd be extremely annoyed if I did something great and my race, culture and nation weren't proud of it. You aren't remembered for what you do for yourself; you are remembered for what you do for your people.

If you want to be remembered, try doing something for humans. Not just Australia.

Wow, you're just as anti-community as Fass. Go live in Rapture.

How is that anti-community?

So - I get my work published, and become a famous poet.

What does that say about you? Sweet FA is what it says... it is no reflection on you at all, it makes you no more or less than you were before. Laud me for my words, if you wish. Magnify my name for my art. But don't pretend it has ANY bearing on you.

It is nothing to do with being 'anti-community', it is to do solely with the fact that I am me, and you are not.

What is this 'Rapture' which seems so tempting for you?

If you want to be remembered, try doing something for humans. Not just Australia.

I plan on making video games. So if they're good video games, odds are, I'll be doing something for the United States, Japan or... god forbid, GERMANY.

What is this 'Rapture' which seems so tempting for you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioshock#Initial_story

Sounds like your kind of place; succeed for yourself, or fucking DIE.

I plan on making video games. So if they're good video games, odds are, I'll be doing something for the United States, Japan or... god forbid, GERMANY.

Don't forget France, China, Turkey and Canada. :)

Don't forget France, China, Turkey and Canada. :)

Why would I move there? The first three are hellholes, and... well, maybe Canada. Bit cold, though.

Why would I move there? The first three are hellholes, and... well, maybe Canada. Bit cold, though.

Since when do you have to move to a country to get them to play your video games?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioshock#Initial_story

Sounds like your kind of place; succeed for yourself, or fucking DIE.

You obviously know even less about me than you think.

I don't agree with your ridiculous notions of being 'special' because someone in my country did something cool 300 years ago. If I am special, it is because I am special, not any reflected glory.

That doesn't make me anti-community. Indeed - if you have encountered me in political type threads, I'd imagine you'd notice pretty quick that you just about couldn't possibly be more wrong if you tried.

I am not anti-community. I just think your claim to somekind of 'glory that rubs off' is utter wank.

Since when do you have to move to a country to get them to play your video games?

I meant as in doing something for the country I'm producing it from.

I believe race is gradient, not solid.

so how does that work?
the longer the people have been in europe the more "white" they are?
or
is it based on skin melonine? if someones great great grandparent was ethiopian, they are less white?

curious
please tell

You obviously know even less about me than you think.

I don't agree with your ridiculous notions of being 'special' because someone in my country did something cool 300 years ago. If I am special, it is because I am special, not any reflected glory.

That doesn't make me anti-community. Indeed - if you have encountered me in political type threads, I'd imagine you'd notice pretty quick that you just about couldn't possibly be more wrong if you tried.

I am not anti-community. I just think your claim to somekind of 'glory that rubs off' is utter wank.

I never said I was special or glorious, just that I'm proud to be part of a culture that has achieved so much and given so much to the world, and I hope to follow in the footsteps of other great Western figures.

so how does that work?
the longer the people have been in europe the more "white" they are?
or
is it based on skin melonine? if someones great great grandparent was ethiopian, they are less white?

curious
please tell

It's basically the colour of skin. It usually goes north to south, with exceptions like Australia. It's a gradient.

I never said I was special or glorious, just that I'm proud to be part of a culture that has achieved so much and given so much to the world, and I hope to follow in the footsteps of other great Western figures.

But, how can you be 'proud'? You weren't there, you contributed nothing.

Anything you feel, is 'stolen' pride, at best.

But, how can you be 'proud'? You weren't there, you contributed nothing.

Anything you feel, is 'stolen' pride, at best.

I don't know, I just do. It's not even pride; it's like a mix of admiration and pride.

It's basically the colour of skin. It usually goes north to south, with exceptions like Australia. It's a gradient.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. What 'coulour' are Eskimoes? Indians? Chinese? Native Americans?

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. What 'coulour' are Eskimoes? Indians? Chinese? Native Americans?

They tend to be light, getting darker as you go southward.

What, so you're saying that everything fits perfectly into black, white and Asian?

I don't know, I just do. It's not even pride; it's like a mix of admiration and pride.

Admiration is one thing. Pride, a totally different one.

One can admire someone for their achievements. Being PROUD of the achievements of others, is kind of silly.

But, you must realise that anyone can admire any other person, it is not a skin tone thing. A girl in Japan, a guy in Egypt... each has the same claim to 'admiration' of... say, Einstein, that you have.

Why do you think that you get some special right to some western icons?

(Do you even realise western math derives from the middle east, and western medicine only even exists because of Islam?)

They tend to be light, getting darker as you go southward.

What, so you're saying that everything fits perfectly into black, white and Asian?

No - almost the opposite. I am saying that Europe is an anomoly. There are peope in the far north that are darker than europe, there are people at the equator who are darker than those further south.

You idea for a world that slowly fades from white to black isn't so much quaint, asnignorant of reality.

Admiration is one thing. Pride, a totally different one.

One can admire someone for their achievements. Being PROUD of the achievements of others, is kind of silly.

But, you must realise that anyone can admire any other person, it is not a skin tone thing. A girl in Japan, a guy in Egypt... each has the same claim to 'admiration' of... say, Einstein, that you have.

Why do you think that you get some special right to some western icons?

Why would any of them WANT to admire Einstein? People tend to admire those of the same culture, with the same ideals.

(Do you even realise western math derives from the middle east, and western medicine only even exists because of Islam?)

ME invented them, West revolutionised them.

No - almost the opposite. I am saying that Europe is an anomoly. There are peope in the far north that are darker than europe, there are people at the equator who are darker than those further south.

You idea for a world that slowly fades from white to black isn't so much quaint, asnignorant of reality.

Actually, I take that back: it's probably more equatorial based.

It's basically the colour of skin. It usually goes north to south, with exceptions like Australia. It's a gradient.

are you a nordicist then?

What about the fact that most of europes "great white cultures" were from the most southern parts of europe?

Does that make icelandics the whitest europeans?

Also norwegians have not contributed that much to the world in terms of inventions, science, art as say france, yet they are further to the north. Yet french people by your 'gradient' are less white than than norwegians. Do you still credit all the french accomplishments as white?

Why would any of them WANT to admire Einstein? People tend to admire those of the same culture, with the same ideals.


Like all those people across the world who admire Ghandi, etc?

I never said I was special or glorious, just that I'm proud to be part of a culture that has achieved so much and given so much to the world, and I hope to follow in the footsteps of other great Western figures.

Heh, right. You're part of 18th Century Austrian culture. I guess that's why you wear a white wig, lots of makeup, and just like Mozart, you compose and appreciate Classical style music.

Oh, you meant White culture, because everyone you decree to be white, is part of one big 'culture.'

This is symptomatic of the new-age racism. As long as you just type "culture" instead of race, even when you clearly mean the latter, you feel more politically correct and somehow anthropologically justified. It's intellectual dishonesty because you clearly feel that Mozart was Mozart because of his skin colour.

You may as well be proud of "male culture." And you probably are.

Hoy spud do you means something like this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Map_of_skin_hue_equi.png)?

I'd be extremely annoyed if I did something great and my race, culture and nation weren't proud of it. You aren't remembered for what you do for yourself; you are remembered for what you do for your people.
And if I did something great, I'd be extremely annoyed if YOU went around claiming that MY accomplishment added luster to YOUR reputation. It would put two questions into my mind: (1) Who the hell is this guy, and (2) who the hell does he think he is?

This attitude that MY work somehow makes up for other people's lazy, wasted lives, that they can claim some kind of skin-color-coded credit for MY work so that they can claim to be "awesome" while doing nothing at all themselves, strikes me as little more than the most ass-backwards form of intellectual plagiarism I've ever heard of.

You know, people from the Middle East are the same "race" as Western folks.

And if I did something great, I'd be extremely annoyed if YOU went around claiming that MY accomplishment added luster to YOUR reputation. It would put two questions into my mind: (1) Who the hell is this guy, and (2) who the hell does he think he is?

This attitude that MY work somehow makes up for other people's lazy, wasted lives, that they can claim some kind of skin-color-coded credit for MY work so that they can claim to be "awesome" while doing nothing at all themselves, strikes me as little more than the most ass-backwards form of intellectual plagiarism I've ever heard of.

but it happens alot does'nt it?

How many people are proud to be american on this forum?
or english
or indian

Most of this is due to the history of their respective nations. The culture that's developed and its accomplishments.

The only group you don't really see this with is with the germans on the sight. Maybe that's due to the recent past, but maybe because of it they've learnt to have a more... world view about accomplishments.

I believe race is gradient, not solid.

It's basically the colour of skin. It usually goes north to south, with exceptions like Australia. It's a gradient.

I'm sorry, but this is one of the silliest things I have ever heard in my entire life. Race is geographic now? So people haven't spent the last million years migrating all over the planet over and over? Or maybe you think, if an African moves to Europe, all the color will drain out of him because he moved away from the equator? And perhaps you think all those pale Australians are indigenous to the continent? Are you kidding or crazy?

And how much of your time have you spent formulating this nonsense instead of actually doing anything for your "culture" or "race" or whatever the hell it is you're trying to claim credit for?

Why would any of them WANT to admire Einstein? People tend to admire those of the same culture, with the same ideals.


Not at all - those just tend to be the icons that many people are most familiar with. There are a lot of people that admire Bob Marley, Ganhi, Buddha or Jesus, who shared niether skintone nor nationality with any of them... without living in the same culture.


ME invented them, West revolutionised them.

Not really. We like to think we are 'all that'... we look at our revolutions in technology... like the discovery of electricity.

And what do we find out, once we know what to look for? The ancient Egyptians were building battery cells a few thousand years ago.

Actually, I take that back: it's probably more equatorial based.

Not even that. More a kind of Rorshache test. But, that is irrelevent in a world of mass-transit, anyway.

The darkskinned fellow sat two seats down from the white skinhead is just as 'German' now.

Hoy spud do you means something like this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Map_of_skin_hue_equi.png)?
The hell---??!! :eek:

A) Who published this thing?

B) It doesn't look like much of a "gradient" to me.

but it happens alot does'nt it?

How many people are proud to be american on this forum?
or english
or indian

Most of this is due to the history of their respective nations. The culture that's developed and its accomplishments.

The only group you don't really see this with is with the germans on the sight. Maybe that's due to the recent past, but maybe because of it they've learnt to have a more... world view about accomplishments.

I'm English. But, I'm no more 'proud' to be English than I am to have a penis - neither was MY choice, it would be idiotic to be 'proud' of something I was not a contributing factor to.

You are right - there is a lot of 'national pride'... but a lot of people see that as a stupid and destructive concept. I have just as much trouble with English or American 'pride' as I do with 'German pride'. People need to stop thinking their skintone or the political border around their homeland, means their shit doesn't stink.

but it happens alot does'nt it?

How many people are proud to be american on this forum?
or english
or indian

Most of this is due to the history of their respective nations. The culture that's developed and its accomplishments.
That is undeniably true, which is probably why my high school English teacher, Ms. Arnold, told my mother that she was worried about how I would cope when I got out of school and learned that "90% of all of humanity is truly and profoundly stupid" (her words), seeing as how I have a very low tolerance for morons. She was right. I do have a problem with it, which is probably why, years later, a doctor warned me that stress was destroying my health and advised me to "avoid talking to people who annoy you" (his words). I have followed his advice as best I can, and my blood pressure has improved noticeably, although I sometimes do experience spikes, as when I read things about "race gradients." And how being white lets lazy, worthless dullards claim peripheral credit for things like the printing press and the polio vaccine. And when I'm hit by the breathtaking irony of some Germanophilic racist bragging about how he claims pride in the accomplishments of Einstein, considering how Einstein had to be gotten out of Germany to keep the Germans from killing him because he wasn't white enough for them, since he was a Jew.

The only group you don't really see this with is with the germans on the sight. Maybe that's due to the recent past, but maybe because of it they've learnt to have a more... world view about accomplishments.
Too bad they had to learn it the hard way. Of course, this is just another generalization. Although most Germans have learned the lesson, and the official German line is anti-racist, there are still plenty of racists in Germany, just like everywhere else.

Groups mean nothing. Groups are either accidental statistical arrangements (genetics, geography) or they are artificial constructs (cultures, nations). They mean nothing. They are riddled with exceptions and anomalies. They are mutable. They accomplish nothing and hold no attitudes. Only individuals can do things and think things. It is ridiculous to claim that the existence of smart white individuals somehow means that white people as a group are smart.

It's basically the colour of skin. It usually goes north to south, with exceptions like Australia. It's a gradient.
For someone so keen on 'race', how come you know so little about it?


Actually, I take that back: it's probably more equatorial based.
Certainly more so than some silly 'darker by south' notion...

So let me just make sure I understand this. You lack even the most basic knowledge about human diversity, and you know this and are reduced to asserting guesses as though they were factual rather than made up on the spot to suit your argument.

Others who have actually undertaken study that qualifies them to reason out useful conclusions about human diversity, have stated outright that your understanding of human diversity (which you tend to call 'races') is fatally flawed.

Based on your own knowledge of your own ignorance of the matter, you conclude that people who have reached contrary (to your own) conclusions, based on their understanding of the actual facts at issue, must be wrong.

May I ask how you retain credibility inside your own head?:confused:

Why would any of them WANT to admire Einstein? People tend to admire those of the same culture, with the same ideals.


Huh? Beyond the baffling assertion that one's skin color is a "culture" and has anything whatsoever to do with one's "ideals," you seem to be arguing that, as a pale-skinned person, I can't possibly admire Mahatma Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. because somehow the presence of additional melanin in their skin renders them totally incomprehensible to me. How on earth do you come up with something this absurd?

Huh? Beyond the baffling assertion that one's skin color is a "culture" and has anything whatsoever to do with one's "ideals," you seem to be arguing that, as a pale-skinned person, I can't possibly admire Mahatma Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. because somehow the presence of additional melanin in their skin renders them totally incomprehensible to me. How on earth do you come up with something this absurd?

Melanin is gay.

Heh, right. You're part of 18th Century Austrian culture. I guess that's why you wear a white wig, lots of makeup, and just like Mozart, you compose and appreciate Classical style music.

Austria didn't HAVE a separate culture. It was called "Germany".

Oh, you meant White culture, because everyone you decree to be white, is part of one big 'culture.'

WESTERN culture. Or does that not exist, according to you?

And what do we find out, once we know what to look for? The ancient Egyptians were building battery cells a few thousand years ago.

Yes, and look where that went. They had fucking power plants and nuclear reactors, didn't they? :rolleyes:

Huh? Beyond the baffling assertion that one's skin color is a "culture" and has anything whatsoever to do with one's "ideals," you seem to be arguing that, as a pale-skinned person, I can't possibly admire Mahatma Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. because somehow the presence of additional melanin in their skin renders them totally incomprehensible to me. How on earth do you come up with something this absurd?

I never said that you couldn't admire them, or that there weren't some universally admired figures. I just said that people TEND to admire figures within their own culture; a Russian would be more likely to admire Zhukov than Eisenhower, and a Chinese person would be more likely to admire Zhuge Liang than Heron.

I never said that you couldn't admire them, or that there weren't some universally admired figures. I just said that people TEND to admire figures within their own culture; a Russian would be more likely to admire Zhukov than Eisenhower, and a Chinese person would be more likely to admire Zhuge Liang than Heron.

Tell that to Ho Chi Minh.

Tell that to Ho Chi Minh.

He was a communist, though. They wanted WORLD revolution. I'd imagine they'd have more "one world, no divisions" views.

He was a communist, though. They wanted WORLD revolution.

Indeed. Indeed... *prepares silos*

And what do we find out, once we know what to look for? The ancient Egyptians were building battery cells a few thousand years ago.

Uh... no? The earliest battery cells discovered were near Baghdad, and were crafted with the Sassanid pottery style, so it was the Iranians using them in the early ADs.

Don't be jealous just because my race is awesome.

Your race would be the most backwards group right now if not for the Muslims. Or Asians.

You fail.

Your race would be the most backwards group right now if not for the Muslims. Or Asians.

You fail.

And yet, we're not. Thus YOU phail.

I'm sorry, but this is one of the silliest things I have ever heard in my entire life. Race is geographic now? So people haven't spent the last million years migrating all over the planet over and over? Or maybe you think, if an African moves to Europe, all the color will drain out of him because he moved away from the equator? And perhaps you think all those pale Australians are indigenous to the continent? Are you kidding or crazy?

And how much of your time have you spent formulating this nonsense instead of actually doing anything for your "culture" or "race" or whatever the hell it is you're trying to claim credit for?

Technically, he is right. Different "races"(I.E. skin tones) are largely due to geographic location of said ethnic group. What cause skin to have color is melanin, which acts as a natural sun block, so speak. Those with darker skin usually are more near the areas with more UV rays penetrating, which is near the equator. Those with lighter skin tend to be farther from said regions, and dark skin can actually be unhealthy as it blocks out to much of the light, which is where we get our Vitamin D from, thus lighter skins are necessary for areas farther away from the equator.

So, technically he is right. Only in the past few centuries has man been able to travel to areas with differing climates than their region of ethnical origin easily, which is not nearly enough time for said ethnicities to adapt to a skin color that is optimal for another region.

I never said that you couldn't admire them, or that there weren't some universally admired figures. I just said that people TEND to admire figures within their own culture; a Russian would be more likely to admire Zhukov than Eisenhower, and a Chinese person would be more likely to admire Zhuge Liang than Heron.
"People" are more likely to do that? No.

Racists and xenophobes? Yes, they are more likely to prefer their "own kind" for no other reason than that they are local and look similar.

And yet, we're not. Thus YOU phail.

Much of the technology that allowed the Europeans to flourish was adopted from other areas of the world, and many acheivements from elsewhere are still being dicovered today.

Technically, he is right. Different "races"(I.E. skin tones) are largely due to geographic location of said ethnic group. What cause skin to have color is melanin, which acts as a natural sun block, so speak. Those with darker skin usually are more near the areas with more UV rays penetrating, which is near the equator. Those with lighter skin tend to be farther from said regions, and dark skin can actually be unhealthy as it blocks out to much of the light, which is where we get our Vitamin D from, thus lighter skins are necessary for areas farther away from the equator.

So, technically he is right. Only in the past few centuries has man been able to travel to areas with differing climates than their region of ethnical origin easily, which is not nearly enough time for said ethnicities to adapt to a skin color that is optimal for another region.
No, he isn't right. Look at that map. Where's this equator-based "gradient" he claims? Unless the equator runs diagonally around the planet? I don't think so.

Also, that sunshine malarkey has no bearing whatsoever on the bizarre claims he is trying to make about race, which he equates with culture, which he equates with geographic location, as if these things don't change and can't change, and a hell of a lot faster than melanin levels. He talks as if being "German" depends not only on being a certain color but also on having a certain set of attitudes and on living in a certain place. His argument is nonsense.

Technically, he is right. Different "races"(I.E. skin tones) are largely due to geographic location of said ethnic group. What cause skin to have color is melanin, which acts as a natural sun block, so speak. Those with darker skin usually are more near the areas with more UV rays penetrating, which is near the equator. Those with lighter skin tend to be farther from said regions, and dark skin can actually be unhealthy as it blocks out to much of the light, which is where we get our Vitamin D from, thus lighter skins are necessary for areas farther away from the equator.

So, technically he is right. Only in the past few centuries has man been able to travel to areas with differing climates than their region of ethnical origin easily, which is not nearly enough time for said ethnicities to adapt to a skin color that is optimal for another region.

I never said that people didn't move; I just meant the natural development of skin colour due to regional climates.

Much of the technology that allowed the Europeans to flourish was adopted from other areas of the world, and many acheivements from elsewhere are still being dicovered today.

Europe flourished because they took other basic technologies and continually refined, modified and experiment.

And yet, we're not.
Not what? Not backwards savages because we were lucky enough to have the Asians and Muslims to help us out? Yes, you're right. We should be grateful to them.

Thus YOU phail.
It's spelled fail. But I guess you can claim you really do know how to spell it because other white people do.

No, he isn't right. Look at that map. Where's this equator-based "gradient" he claims? Unless the equator runs diagonally around the planet? I don't think so.

When I said gradient, it had nothing to do with the planet; YOU idiots made that up. I meant that if you take a group of people from around the world, their skin colours would be gradient; not everyone would fit perfectly into white and black.

No, he isn't right. Look at that map. Where's this equator-based "gradient" he claims? Unless the equator runs diagonally around the planet? I don't think so.

Also, that sunshine malarkey has no bearing whatsoever on the bizarre claims he is trying to make about race, which he equates with culture, which he equates with geographic location, as if these things don't change and can't change, and a hell of a lot faster than melanin levels. He talks as if being "German" depends not only on being a certain color but also on having a certain set of attitudes and on living in a certain place. His argument is nonsense.

I was simply stating a scientific explanation to skin color, as skin color is geographic, as I thought was the original debate. In all honesty, I hadn't read as to what he had said, and assumed it was of something else. Geography can have an effect on culture, in an indirect way. Perhaps I should go back and see what his claims are. Also, as far as being "German" goes, it depends upon one's idea of what "German" means. To some, it is being a citizen of said country, to others it is having ancestry of the region. However, having ancestry of said region is rather dubious, as due to migratory patterns of humans throughout time, we all either started somewhere in Africa, or Asia, depending on whom you ask.

It's spelled fail. But I guess you can claim you really do know how to spell it because other white people do.

Muravyets 
–noun
1. Someone who clearly doesn't know much about internet culture.

Austria didn't HAVE a separate culture. It was called "Germany".

No, you're flat-out wrong here. As usual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Austria


WESTERN culture. Or does that not exist, according to you?

Culture consists of shared

1. values;
2. norms;
3. institutions;
4. artifacts.

Since you have racist, ignorant values pertaining mostly toward blowing your own horn, you are obviously a different culture than I am. Therefore, lumping us together in "Western Culture" would be incorrect, and frankly insulting.

And no, I'm not buying your "culture" line. You think you're "German" based purely on blood. Race. Genetics. Have some stones and admit to being a racist instead of dancing around by repeating "Culture! Culture! Culture!" like anyone believes you.

Europe flourished because they took other basic technologies and continually refined, modified and experiment.

And other areas did the same. Really, I fail to see your point here.

Europe flourished because they took other basic technologies and continually refined, modified and experiment.
In other words, stealing other people's ideas. And then, centuries later, you come along to act as if you're "awesome" because some other white person's ancesters were clever thieves.

You still have not shown the connection between this illustrious history and you, however, so you still have not supported your claim that white people have a right to feel smug about other people's accomplishments.

No, you're flat-out wrong here. As usual.

Yeah, Austria has a culture. Which wouldn't be spectacular different from anything in Bayern or Baden or Wuerttemberg.

And no, I'm not buying your "culture" line. You think you're "German" based purely on blood. Race. Genetics. Have some stones and admit to being a racist instead of dancing around by repeating "Culture! Culture! Culture!" like anyone believes you.

Yeah, I think I'm German based simply on blood. Culturally, I'm an Australian wog.

In other words, stealing other people's ideas. And then, centuries later, you come along to act as if you're "awesome" because some other white person's ancesters were clever thieves.

You still have not shown the connection between this illustrious history and you, however, so you still have not supported your claim that white people have a right to feel smug about other people's accomplishments.

Because I said so, ok?

In other words, stealing other people's ideas. And then, centuries later, you come along to act as if you're "awesome" because some other white person's ancesters were clever thieves.

You still have not shown the connection between this illustrious history and you, however, so you still have not supported your claim that white people have a right to feel smug about other people's accomplishments.

Can we feel smug over the fact that us "clever thieves" subjugated pretty much the entire world? :D

Frankly, white people kick ass. It's a well-documented fact.

Yeah, Austria has a culture. Which wouldn't be spectacular different from anything in Bayern or Baden or Wuerttemberg.

So, first Austria has no culture, then it does...

Yeah, I think I'm German based simply on blood. Culturally, I'm an Australian wog.

I thought culturally you were "White?" Or perhaps "Western?"

Yeah, Austria has a culture. Which wouldn't be spectacular different from anything in Bayern or Baden or Wuerttemberg.

Eh, you'd be surprised. There are truly several sub-cultures in any given nation. They may be similar, but one does notice definate differences between one area and another.

Because I said so, ok?

You are right because you say you are right. Great logic.

I thought culturally you were "White?" Or perhaps "Western?"

Nope, white is biology, Western is the greater cultural civilisation. I'm a wog. As we say at Dynamo, "Here we go, here we go, here we go, Dynamo, Dynamo, Dynamo!"

When I said gradient, it had nothing to do with the planet; YOU idiots made that up. I meant that if you take a group of people from around the world, their skin colours would be gradient; not everyone would fit perfectly into white and black.
Excuse me, but YOU are the one who made that crap up. I quote:

Originally Posted by The Potato Factory
It's basically the colour of skin. It usually goes north to south, with exceptions like Australia. It's a gradient.

Originally Posted by The Potato Factory
Actually, I take that back: it's probably more equatorial based.

"North" "South" "Equatorial based" But nothing to do with the planet. Yeah, right.

You can call people names all you like. We are not the ones having trouble following what you are saying.

Muravyets?
–noun
1. Someone who clearly doesn't know much about internet culture.

Potato Factory
-noun
1. A factory where potatoes are made.
2. A person who resorts to name-calling and personal attacks when he can no longer defend his specious arguments.
3. One who clearly doesn't know much about sarcasm.

Nope, white is biology, Western is the greater cultural civilisation. I'm a wog. As we say at Dynamo, "Here we go, here we go, here we go, Dynamo, Dynamo, Dynamo!"

Nah. This time you're wrong, just because I say you are.

See, I can use your logic too! Too bad I'm not a troll and it doesn't really fit. But neither does using reason when you're clearly beyond it yourself.

Nope, white is biology, Western is the greater cultural civilisation. I'm a wog. As we say at Dynamo, "Here we go, here we go, here we go, Dynamo, Dynamo, Dynamo!"

"Western" is not a culture. The various cultures of the west differ greatly from region to region.

And there is not such thing as a greater culture. If this were true, you'd see people flocking in droves to a certain culture over another, and by that one could say that the US has the greatest culture, as almost all of our citizens migrated from other areas of the world away from their own cultural centers, such as Germany. However, the very fact that many immigrants maintain their culture from their homeland is an important fact as to why there is no better culture. You have a preferred culture, other have thiers. There is no "better" culture.

And there is not such thing as a greater culture.

I meant greater as in "larger" or "overall".

I'd be extremely annoyed if I did something great and my race, culture and nation weren't proud of it. You aren't remembered for what you do for yourself; you are remembered for what you do for your people.

Sure proud of it. But to say that they accomplished it because they were white? Shouldn't we be proud of them because they were human instead of being proud because they were white? Its not their 'whiteness" that helped their accomplishments. Its human physiology.

Can we feel smug over the fact that us "clever thieves" subjugated pretty much the entire world? :D

Frankly, white people kick ass. It's a well-documented fact.
Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that Julius Caesar posts on this forum.

Oh, wait, you're not him? You're just some keyboard-mashing office wonk or college student who never subjugated anything bigger than a Subway sandwich? Well, the hell with you then. No, you don't get to feel smug about what other people did with their lives.

Sure proud of it. But to say that they accomplished it because they were white? Thats essentially what you've been saying.

No. They accomplished it AND they were white.

"North" "South" "Equatorial based" But nothing to do with the planet. Yeah, right.

You can call people names all you like. We are not the ones having trouble following what you are saying.

Ah, I see what that was about now. The "acception" of Australia is due to the fact that it has high levels of UV rays in that region. Also, "race" is not North to South, it just appears so. Instead, it is equatorial. The fact is that the Southern regions of the world are either one of two things:

A)Mostly covered by oceans as compared to more northern regions
B)Inaccessible until fairly recently in geological history, resulting in to short of a period of time for the pigment to be optimal in southern regions. Had the people in the southern portion of South America had time enough, I would assume that their skin would lighten over time. However, due to fairly recent immigration to the area, not enough time was alotted for "natives" of the region to do as such.

Because I said so, ok?
LOL!! *deep breath*

No.

I meant greater as in "larger" or "overall".

By that note, "German" is not a great culture, which have earlier said to be so.

And as I said, there is no "Western Culture", but instead many cultures that share a few similar ideas.

No. They accomplished it AND they were white.

Well then why be proud of it? Thats like saying to Albert Einstein, "I have the same eye color as you, that makes me special."

No. They accomplished it AND they were white.

Your point? Plenty has been accomplished by other people of different ethnicities. Why not be proud of them, as well, as they have contributed greatly to the world overall? Algebra, for instance, was an Arabic invention, and is greatly responsible for many achievements of the world. Modern medicine is related closely to progress made in the same region.

Why just be proud of one group? Why not be proud of all ethnicities, as all have made great contributions in one way or another?

By that note, "German" is not a great culture, which have earlier said to be so.

And as I said, there is no "Western Culture", but instead many cultures that share a few similar ideas.

There is a greater Werstern culture; it could be seen when the Holy League fought the Ottomans. Much of Europe united temporarily to fight a greater enemy. Beyond that, there are cultures within the West; German, French, Italian, British, and so on. Then it goes regional, such as Bayern, Sicily, Scotland...

Well then why be proud of it? Thats like saying to Albert Einstein, "I have the same eye color as you, that makes me special."

That is in fact exactly the same thing. As for why he and those like him do it? To leech off the greatness of other people.

There is a greater Werstern culture; it could be seen when the Holy League fought the Ottomans. Much of Europe united temporarily to fight a greater enemy. Beyond that, there are cultures within the West; German, French, Italian, British, and so on. Then it goes regional, such as Bayern, Sicily, Scotland...

The only real thing that united them was their religion and if western culture's based on religion, we're screwed.

Ah, I see what that was about now. The "acception" of Australia is due to the fact that it has high levels of UV rays in that region. Also, "race" is not North to South, it just appears so. Instead, it is equatorial. The fact is that the Southern regions of the world are either one of two things:

A)Mostly covered by oceans as compared to more northern regions
B)Inaccessible until fairly recently in geological history, resulting in to short of a period of time for the pigment to be optimal in southern regions. Had the people in the southern portion of South America had time enough, I would assume that their skin would lighten over time. However, due to fairly recent immigration to the area, not enough time was alotted for "natives" of the region to do as such.
Honey, my friend, you've already said you didn't read the thread. I think you should. There you will see the map I mentioned as well as the real gist of what PF is claiming. Then you will see why distribution of skin color groupings around the globe has no legitimate bearing on this discussion whatsoever. It doesn't matter whether it's true or how or why it happens. It is irrelevant, and its introduction was a red herring.

Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that Julius Caesar posts on this forum.

Oh, wait, you're not him? You're just some keyboard-mashing office wonk or college student who never subjugated anything bigger than a Subway sandwich? Well, the hell with you then. No, you don't get to feel smug about what other people did with their lives.

ROFL. The part I particularly enjoyed was the irony of this:

2. A person who resorts to name-calling and personal attacks when he can no longer defend his specious arguments.

I also enjoyed "If you haven't hurt anything more than a Subway sandwich, then fuck you!!!", and the rapid assumptions made about me with NO backround information.

Classic.

Also, Julius Caesar? Are you using the 1500s edition of World History? Last I checked, he subjugated everything from Egypt to the Rhine, and from Great Britain to Asia Minor. Mesopotamia =/= the entire world, unlike what white supremacists, like Muravyets here, would have you believe.

There is a greater Werstern culture; it could be seen when the Holy League fought the Ottomans. Much of Europe united temporarily to fight a greater enemy. Beyond that, there are cultures within the West; German, French, Italian, British, and so on. Then it goes regional, such as Bayern, Sicily, Scotland...

But they didn't share a cutlure, they shared a goal. They united out of only self interest in mind.

And by that note, let's consider this: All cultures are part of the Super-culture, "World Culture". There are differences among regions, which is broken down into nation, which is broken down into sub-sections of nations, and so forth.

Honey, my friend, you've already said you didn't read the thread. I think you should. There you will see the map I mentioned as well as the real gist of what PF is claiming. Then you will see why distribution of skin color groupings around the globe has no legitimate bearing on this discussion whatsoever. It doesn't matter whether it's true or how or why it happens. It is irrelevant, and its introduction was a red herring.

Aye, good point. I looked back a few pages. Meh, the reasons as to why skin color is as such is irrelevant to the discussion.

ROFL. The part I particularly enjoyed was the irony of this:



I also enjoyed "If you haven't hurt anything more than a Subway sandwich, then fuck you!!!", and the rapid assumptions made about me with NO backround information.

Classic.

Also, Julius Caesar? Are you using the 1500s edition of World History? Last I checked, he subjugated everything from Egypt to the Rhine, and from Great Britain to Asia Minor. Mesopotamia =/= the entire world, unlike what white supremacists, like Muravyets here, would have you believe.

Here I'll break it down for you: I happen to have brown eyes. Now, Numerous great people througout history have had brown eyes. Does that mean I should be proud in my 'Brown eyed' features just because someone say Benjamin Franklin had brown eyes? No, of course not. Even if that logic were to hold true I should probably be ashamed of my brown eyes because of some of the terrible things people with brown eyes have down. Hitler, Stalin, a lot of those random eastern europe communist dictators. Mussolini. Theres practically the entire warsaw pact and the pact of steel.

Here I'll break it down for you: I happen to have brown eyes. Now, Numerous great people througout history have had brown eyes. Does that mean I should be proud in my 'Brown eyed' features just because someone say Benjamin Franklin had brown eyes?

Absolutely. Any other questions?

Absolutely. Any other questions?

Then shouldn't I also be ashamed of all the bad people who had brown eyes?

ROFL. The part I particularly enjoyed was the irony of this:



I also enjoyed "If you haven't hurt anything more than a Subway sandwich, then fuck you!!!", and the rapid assumptions made about me with NO backround information.

Classic.

Also, Julius Caesar? Are you using the 1500s edition of World History? Last I checked, he subjugated everything from Egypt to the Rhine, and from Great Britain to Asia Minor. Mesopotamia =/= the entire world, unlike what white supremacists, like Muravyets here, would have you believe.
You're cute. Not successful, but cute in your attempts. Point by point, shall we?

1) PF called his opponents "idiots." Where did I call you an insulting name in my post? Oh, that's right, I didn't. What I did was use hyperbole to highlight a distinction between the romance of history and the reality of modern life to show the ridiculousness of modern people claiming pride in accomplishments they had nothing to do with.

2) Do I need background information about you? Are you saying that you ARE in fact a subjugator of the world? Or are you just saying you don't eat Subway sandwiches? Yeah. The "you" in my post was the rhetorical "you" meaning any generic other person. The fact that I was not describing your real lifestyle -- and the fact that we don't know each other -- should have clued you to that. Oh, wait -- did you think I was really talking about you personally? Oh...that's so sweet.

3) Julius Caesar = default historical bigwig. Substitute any world leader of the past that you prefer. Guess what? You're not that person, either. In fact, take all the influential and/or imperialistic world leaders of the past 1000 years, and you'll find that you aren't any of them.

4) Calling me a white supremacist just because I threw the name Caesar at you? That attack is so adorable the way it limps around on its lame little legs. Try again, but next time, apply a little thought to it.

5) Trying to hijack the thread into a flame war between you and me? The mods don't like that. This debate isn't about you. Address the issues of the topic.

Aye, good point. I looked back a few pages. Meh, the reasons as to why skin color is as such is irrelevant to the discussion.
Let's not allow our opponent to distract us with such cheap tricks. ;)

The hell---??!! :eek:

A) Who published this thing?

B) It doesn't look like much of a "gradient" to me.

the guy was called Renato Biasutti. done before 1940

She was right. I do have a problem with it, which is probably why, years later, a doctor warned me that stress was destroying my health and advised me to "avoid talking to people who annoy you" (his words). I have followed his advice as best I can, and my blood pressure has improved noticeably, although I sometimes do experience spikes, as when I read things about "race gradients." And how being white lets lazy, worthless dullards claim peripheral credit for things like the printing press and the polio vaccine. And when I'm hit by the breathtaking irony of some Germanophilic racist bragging about how he claims pride in the accomplishments of Einstein, considering how Einstein had to be gotten out of Germany to keep the Germans from killing him because he wasn't white enough for them, since he was a Jew.


I think we're going to have our first case of DEATH BY NS ;)

Yes, and look where that went. They had fucking power plants and nuclear reactors, didn't they? :rolleyes:

Is a nuclear reactor an improvement? Egypt never resorted to nuclear technology (as far as we know), but they had no Chernobyl, Bikini Atoll, Three Mile Island, Windscale, Hiroshima, or Nagasaki, either.

You seem to be under the impression that ALL modern advance equates to 'good'. You overlook simple facts like - we still don't know how they balanced multiple-thousand-ton obelisks on platforms mere inches wider that the stones, just a few paces from each other. We don't know how the Greeks created complex calculating engines, thousands of years before Babbage, with such a rudimentary toolset.

Uh... no? The earliest battery cells discovered were near Baghdad, and were crafted with the Sassanid pottery style, so it was the Iranians using them in the early ADs.

It isn't worth quibbling over... I've seen texts that claim leyden jar technology in Egypt, I've seen texts claiming 'capacitor' technology available to the ancient Greeks. A number of scholars have suggested that the famous biblical 'Ark of the Covenant' was actually primitive leyden jar-type battery, stolen from Egypt. Indeed - it does have a lot of details to make this a fairly convincing speculation.

The jars found in 1938 definitely date to a few hundred years into this era, although their origins are still a mystery... why are they Sassanid in appearance, but located among Parthian relics?


The point however, remains the same - technologies that we think 'new', are often evidenced in older inventions - the steam engine and jet propulsion - both predated by almost 2000 years in "Hero's Engine", we find technologies of soldering and electroplating dating back thousands of years. The Greeks used electroshock therapy to treat pain, the Chinese making fireworks before the advent of 'combustion' technology.

Edit: Can't find the link I was looking for, but I found a reference to the same thing: "There is evidence that primitive batteries were used in Iraq and Egypt as early as 200 B.C. for electroplating and precious metal gilding." (http://www.answers.com/topic/battery-electricity)

When I said gradient, it had nothing to do with the planet; YOU idiots made that up. I meant that if you take a group of people from around the world, their skin colours would be gradient; not everyone would fit perfectly into white and black.

Actually - when asked for an explanation for what you meant by 'gradient', it was YOU that volunteered the idea that people are light in the north, and get darker as you headed south.

Before you start calling people idiots, you might want to check back. I can go back and find your words, if I have to.

I'd be extremely annoyed if I did something great and my race, culture and nation weren't proud of it. You aren't remembered for what you do for yourself; you are remembered for what you do for your people.
Okay, you're proud of the high points members of our race have achieved. Are you then also ashamed of the low points?

The same question could be ask of any Supremacists, not just the whites.
Are there any other supremacists?

You're cute. Not successful, but cute in your attempts.
Aww, love you too, sweetie.

1) PF called his opponents "idiots." Where did I call you an insulting name in my post? Oh, that's right, I didn't.
I seem to recall being called a "keyboard-smashing office wonk". While revisionism is fun, it really doesn't work when both parties have evidence of what actually happened. Better luck next time!

What I did was use hyperbole to highlight a distinction between the romance of history and the reality of modern life to show the ridiculousness of modern people claiming pride in accomplishments they had nothing to do with.
Hyperbole = massive exaggeration. Like "I just kicked the crap out of a hundred guys", when it was just two.

Perhaps juxtaposition was what you were thinking of.

2) Do I need background information about you?
*shrug* If you want it.
Are you saying that you ARE in fact a subjugator of the world?
Let me check... no.
Or are you just saying you don't eat Subway sandwiches?
True, I don't eat Subway. I also don't go to college or work in an office. Yeah. The "you" in my post was the rhetorical "you" meaning any generic other person. The fact that I was not describing your real lifestyle -- and the fact that we don't know each other -- should have clued you to that. Oh, wait -- did you think I was really talking about you personally? Oh...that's so sweet.
What's really sweet is how you were talking about me personally, until you realised you were putting your foot in your mouth by personally insulting me.
Not admitting to your mistakes == tres adorable!


3) Julius Caesar = default historical bigwig. Substitute any world leader of the past that you prefer. Guess what? You're not that person, either. In fact, take all the influential and/or imperialistic world leaders of the past 1000 years, and you'll find that you aren't any of them.
*shock and awe*
Julius Caesar =/= subjugator of the world, therefore, has nothing to do with what I brought up.

And, frankly, I can claim as much credit as he can. He didn't fight battles, he just told people to fight in his place.

4) Calling me a white supremacist just because I threw the name Caesar at you? That attack is so adorable the way it limps around on its lame little legs. Try again, but next time, apply a little thought to it.
Actually, I called you a white supremacist because of your implication that Caesar conquered the world, and, therefore, the world centers on Europe and the Mesopotamia region, and there's nothing important outside of it..

5) Trying to hijack the thread into a flame war between you and me? The mods don't like that. This debate isn't about you. Address the issues of the topic.
lol, "change the subject 'cause I know I'm wrong!"
Especially funny because you already started a flame war with Potato Factory.
Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that Julius Caesar posts on this forum.

Oh, wait, you're not him? You're just some keyboard-mashing office wonk or college student who never subjugated anything bigger than a Subway sandwich? Well, the hell with you then. No, you don't get to feel smug about what other people did with their lives.

It isn't worth quibbling over... I've seen texts that claim leyden jar technology in Egypt, I've seen texts claiming 'capacitor' technology available to the ancient Greeks. A number of scholars have suggested that the famous biblical 'Ark of the Covenant' was actually primitive leyden jar-type battery, stolen from Egypt. Indeed - it does have a lot of details to make this a fairly convincing speculation.
snipsnipsnip

Well, you'd know about this better than I do, so, sure.

Could you please stop quibling with each other and address my points? I'm eager to see what your counterpoints will be.

I think we're going to have our first case of DEATH BY NS ;)

It'll be on your heads, you bastards. :D

the guy was called Renato Biasutti. done before 1940
Thanks. That at least lets us know how relevant it is, to reality and to the arguments of racists (two different measures).

Actually - when asked for an explanation for what you meant by 'gradient', it was YOU that volunteered the idea that people are light in the north, and get darker as you headed south.

Before you start calling people idiots, you might want to check back. I can go back and find your words, if I have to.
I already did.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11931987&postcount=159

blahblah-off topic-irrelevant-missed the point-off topic-can't keep track of which posts are addressed to which poster-blah
What did I say about hijacking a thread into a flame war? I said it's against forum rules. I'm not going to be dragged into making you the center of attention. If you can't tell the difference between a generic point and someone talking about you personally, even when they explain it to you; if you can't be bothered to read what other people write; if you can't even tell which posts were addressed to PF and which to you or what the posts are referring to, then debating with you is going to be a waste of effort, and I'm not going to do it. Especially since you are still way off topic.

Dance around and yell how you defeated me at something if you like. I will not be answering any more of your posts unless they are ON topic.

Could you please stop quibling with each other and address my points? I'm eager to see what your counterpoints will be.
Me too, but I suspect there are no counterpoints.

blah-blah-blah, general kirking, can't take a joke, etc.

*dances around*
I defeated the guy with no sense of humor. Hell yeah!
*more victory dancing*

i'm the most supreme being on this planet and i'm white. thus white supremicy.

Me too, but I suspect there are no counterpoints.

Agreed, it seems all our friends can do is make stupid comments about someone's personal nature.

i'm the most supreme being on this planet and i'm white. thus white supremicy.

YEAH SCREW THE MUD-PEOPLE AND THEIR DAMN SPELL CHECKS(;) )

Much of the technology that allowed the Europeans to flourish was adopted from other areas of the world, and many acheivements from elsewhere are still being dicovered today.

Just to be even more accurate, the great developement of Europe (the most important result of which is the Scientifical Method invented Galileo Galilei and refined by a lot of people in the last 400 years) is mainly due to Italian Renaissance. And Renaissance was possible because:
-the Italians were rich, richer than any other European state (capitalism began in Italy, with the bankers of Florence and Milan) because they traded with everyone; Italy was the main crossroad of commerce between Europe, Middle East and the Far East (Silk Road).
-the Muslim world made a wonderful work in preserving Greek philosophy and geometry, and in mixing it with Persian and Indian mathematics and philosophy. At the same time, the Middle-Age philosophers in Europe developed new branches of philosophy.
-via trade routes, the works of the Muslim world came to Europe. So Europe rediscovered the works of the classical world and introduced Arabic numbers.
-at the very same time Italy was at its apex, the Turks invaded the muslim world, so the Italy became the most easy place for the Renaissance to begin. If the Turks hadn't invaded the Middle East, maybe Renaissance would have begun there.
-at the end of Renaissance, every national state in Europe took to the hobby of invading Italy. So the Italian states dwindled, while the lead was taken by France, the United Provinces (NL), and Britain.

So, it is the ultimate mixture of populations, culture and information that has made Europe the birthplace of "modern" world.

Isolation, what good does it do? Look at Japan. Pure Yamato... till they got the idea that opening themselves to the world would make them richer and more influential.

Can we feel smug over the fact that us "clever thieves" subjugated pretty much the entire world? :D

Frankly, white people kick ass. It's a well-documented fact.

Because strength is, of course, the best measure of a civilization's merit. Of course it is.

http://www.stentorian.com/madbrute.jpg

Whites, Jews, and Asians = Smart = Superior

Although some of those latinas are pretty smoking!