NationStates Jolt Archive

Evidently some chick in KY was bit by a snake in a religous service, and later died from it.

Woman fatally bitten by snake in church (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061108/ap_on_re_us/church_snakebite)

Wed Nov 8, 12:54 AM ET

LONDON, Ky. - A woman who was bitten by a snake at a church that neighbors say practices serpent handling died of her wounds hours later, a newspaper reported.

Linda Long, 48, was bitten Sunday at East London Holiness Church, where neighbors said the reptiles are handled as part of religious services, The Lexington Herald-Leader reported Tuesday.

Long died at University of Kentucky Medical Center about four hours after being bitten, authorities told the newspaper.

"She said she was bitten by a snake at her church," said Lt. Ed Sizemore of the Laurel County Sheriff's Office.

Handling reptiles as part of religious services is illegal in Kentucky. Snake handling is a misdemeanor and punishable by a $50 to $100 fine.

Police said they had not received any reports of snake handling at the church.

Snake handling is based on a passage in the Bible that says a sign of a true believer is the power to "take up serpents" without being harmed.

Church officials could not be reached for comment.

2 questions:
1) Why the hell would you play around with snakes, when Satan was described as a serpent? You'd think that Satan would be pissed off by being gropped by a group of christians in church.
2)Is the illegal part against the 1st admendment? Saying they can't use the snakes in the services, that is. I mean I can understand making human sacrifices or something illegal, but this type of thing isn't so much as bad I s'pose.

The only thing I know is that when you put snakes on a plane, things really go bad. Luckily this service wasnt held on a plane.

Evidently some chick in KY was bit by a snake in a religous service, and later died from it.



2 questions:
1) Why the hell would you play around with snakes, when Satan was described as a serpent? You'd think that Satan would be pissed off by being gropped by a group of christians in church.
2)Is the illegal part against the 1st admendment? Saying they can't use the snakes in the services, that is. I mean I can understand making human sacrifices or something illegal, but this type of thing isn't so much as bad I s'pose.

WTF!!! 4 hours!!! :eek:

sad...

pathetic...

*glad I'm not part of that church*

1. They're tempting God, and that's stupid. "I'm so faithful to you God! Now prove that you'll keep me from being harmed by this snake!"

2. I don't know the law, but it's probably something that only trained professionals can handle snakes infront of an assembly or something. That wouldn't prevent anyone from handling the snake, all you have to do is go through some training, not interfering with your religious beliefs at all. Of course, that what I hope that law actually says.

Moral of this story: don't play with snakes! :)

Moral of this story: don't play with snakes! :)

I could make a joke here.. But i'll refrain :)

She wins the Darwin award of today. Her and anyone else like her that decides to play with snakes like a moron.

Ok, stop it with the "punishment from God" stuff. Anytime you have a lot of people doing something this stupid for a relatively long amount of time, someone's gonna get bitten.
Considering handling snakes usually makes them defensive, I'm surprised this didn't happen earlier.

Ok, stop it with the "punishment from God" stuff.

Well they specifically believe that "TRUE" believers can handle snakes without being hurt, like Paul did when he was bit by a viper on some island. So, in their minds, obviously she wasn't a true beleiver, and God punished her.

Anybody see that X-Files which dealt with a case like this?



Spooky.

The only thing I know is that when you put snakes on a plane, things really go bad. Luckily this service wasnt held on a plane.

I've heard snakes on a train are worse. :)

I could make a joke here.. But i'll refrain :)

Oh, you just made it. ;)

Ha ha, moron.

It's good to see natural selection still works.

Well they specifically believe that "TRUE" believers can handle snakes without being hurt, like Paul did when he was bit by a viper on some island. So, in their minds, obviously she wasn't a true beleiver, and God punished her.

In their minds, maybe. Not to the rest of the world.
A lot of the stuff the bible attributes to faith is generally not accepted.
Example: who here believes in telepathy? I mean on really large scales. Anyone? Nobody. Ok. How many of you believe the bible is true? Let's see, that's about 5 hands.
Explain this then:
I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him.
So we have a case where what the bible says contradicts what common sense says. Generally a good idea to listen to common sense over the bible if you don't want to win a Darwin Award.
Or worse, start a theocracy.

Frankly, I'm surprised any member of a church that handles deadly snakes as a test of faith survives for long. I don't care what your religious convictions are or how strong they are: if you aren't a professional, and you're handling venomous animals, you are an idiot, and will promptly get what's coming to you.

They'll say she was a closet lesbian and that's why the snake bit her.

It's good to see natural selection still works.

Quoted for truth

2)Is the illegal part against the 1st admendment? Saying they can't use the snakes in the services, that is. I mean I can understand making human sacrifices or something illegal, but this type of thing isn't so much as bad I s'pose.

Until you realize they only handle poisonous snakes.

2 questions:
1) Why the hell would you play around with snakes, when Satan was described as a serpent? You'd think that Satan would be pissed off by being gropped by a group of christians in church.

Some people think it isn't faith if you don't "prove" it to others.

2)Is the illegal part against the 1st admendment? Saying they can't use the snakes in the services, that is. I mean I can understand making human sacrifices or something illegal, but this type of thing isn't so much as bad I s'pose.

No, it isn't. The 1st Amendment does not mean that nothing that people want to have in religious services can be illegal, it means that laws cannot be in place specifically to restrict religious worship. As long as the law doesn't say, "People cannot handle snakes as part of worship," the law is fine - it simply must represent a state interest (ie. keeping people alive) and apply equally to everyone (ie. not just churchgoers). This is the same reason that states can, if they wish, make the use of certain drugs illegal, even though they are used in religious services. The states can regulate the slaughter of animals, even if that means that certain religious rituals cannot be carried out as the religious wish, and so on.

Evidently some chick in KY was bit by a snake in a religous service, and later died from it.



2 questions:
1) Why the hell would you play around with snakes, when Satan was described as a serpent? You'd think that Satan would be pissed off by being gropped by a group of christians in church.
2)Is the illegal part against the 1st admendment? Saying they can't use the snakes in the services, that is. I mean I can understand making human sacrifices or something illegal, but this type of thing isn't so much as bad I s'pose.
Prods are Dumbbbbb...

1. They're tempting a poisonous animal whos natural instinct is to bite anything that threatens it, and that's stupid. "I'm so faithful to you God! Now prove that you'll keep me from being harmed by this snake!"
.

edited for accuracy ;)

God: "So you think I won't let the snake bite you huh? Is that what you think, do you really think that I would care about a couple of kooks! Well just for your inflated ego that you people apparently have, I'm not going to protect you!"

*walks away, snake bites woman*

:D

The only thing I know is that when you put snakes on a plane, things really go bad. Luckily this service wasnt held on a plane.

*snort*

heh, in voodoo they do alot of snake handling, too. of the non-venomous variety...

Charismatic Pagans: 1
Charismatic Christians: 0

Poor snake.

Oh, and I recommend listening to Pinkert and Bowens "Shake a Snake" Great song.

1. They're tempting God, and that's stupid. "I'm so faithful to you God! Now prove that you'll keep me from being harmed by this snake!"

Yeah, I always thought that should there be an omnipresent diety, it would be a cruel bastard.

A woman has died from a snake bite recieved during a church service in Kentucky. The church she attended handled poisonous snakes as part of it's worship services. They base the activity upon a verse in the bible where it says believers could "take up serpents".

I wonder if they considered Steve Irwin a saint or something? Anyway, I saw a documentary on these folks a while back. They don't just handle snakes, some churches have their members drink poison out of mason jars as well and the people don't die (usually).

If they can interpret that part of the bible so loosely that it includes such acts as drinking poison, couldn't they also express their faith by doing other dangerous things? Why don't they go out and wrestle bears or crash their cars into stuff? Now that would be some entertaining worship. They could show it on Sunday morning TV and get huge ratings compared to those other TV preachers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061107/ap_on_re_us/church_snakebite

Remember kids, God will let you die just to show people not to try and prove he exists by doing something dangerous.

LOL, for once, you're late. =) There was a thread on this last night.

Of course, I'm not going to go looking for it...

"Snakes in a Church" ? sounds like a bad movie sequel.

I dont need no stinking snakes in my church. Or chickens.

I can just see Jesus saying "Aw jeez, not this shit again"...

Actually, drinking the venom of snakes is fairly safe. Your stomach acids will neutralize the toxins quite effectively. Of course, if you have a mouth ulcer or other wound in your mouth or esophagus, or a bleeding ulcer in your stomach, you're in deep shit.

The crazy thing I find about this is that I know that no North American snake is especially dangerous if you get rapid treatment. What ever happened to "God helps those who help themselves"?

Actually, drinking the venom of snakes is fairly safe. Your stomach acids will neutralize the toxins quite effectively. Of course, if you have a mouth ulcer or other wound in your mouth or esophagus, or a bleeding ulcer in your stomach, you're in deep shit.

The crazy thing I find about this is that I know that no North American snake is especially dangerous if you get rapid treatment. What ever happened to "God helps those who help themselves"?

She got bitten by the snake...............

She got bitten by the snake...............

I realize that. I was commenting on your comment about them drinking poison from mason jars.

I maintain, a person bitten by any NA snake should have more than enough tme to get to a hospital and a nice shot of anti-venin.

"Snakes in a Church" ? sounds like a bad movie sequel.

I dont need no stinking snakes in my church. Or chickens.

"We've got mo----f-----g snakes in a m-----f-----g church!"


*dodges lightning bolts*

This lady (and her church apparently) were thinking of scripture when they decided to try that stuff…

Luke 10:19
I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.

And Mark 16:16-18
16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

But the operative words in that article were Snake handling is based on a passage in the Bible, in the Gospel of Mark, that says a sign of a true believer is the power to "take up serpents" without being harmed.

One of the problems is this; her church will assume that the scripture says she simply did not have enough faith and was therefore not a true believer, and thus her church will assume she simply did not have enough faith and will continue in their snake handling practice despite her death, continued ad nauseaum forever. The second problem with this is even IF the Lady (and her church) is/was/are true believers, they seem to have stopped reading the scripture after Mark chapter 16, and took up their practice, because sometime later in the scripture, it says this specifically:

1 Corinthians 10:9
We should not test the Lord, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes.

What ever happened to "God helps those who help themselves"?

Aesop said that, talking about Zeus. :)

But yeah. This is pretty tragic, and like most tragedies its born out of ignorance. I seem to recall "It is said, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

I maintain, a person bitten by any NA snake should have more than enough tme to get to a hospital and a nice shot of anti-venin.

That depends on a lot of things.

How far away is the hospital? Believe it or not, many people do not live within even an hour of the nearest hospital. And anti-venom isn't something you'll generally find at the local clinic.

Where was she bitten? If she was bitten on a finger, she probably has more time and a better chance of surviving than if she was bitten on the torso or neck.

What snake was it? Was it brought in for the services, or was it native to the area? Most hospitals (especially in rural areas) that carry anti-venom carry it only for snakes common to that area. If they were bringing in poisonous snakes from elsewhere, the hospital might not have the right anti-venom. And, unless a representative of the church leaders went with her, she very well might not have even known what type of snake it was - another barrier to getting the antidote.

Actually, drinking the venom of snakes is fairly safe.

yeah- famous last words heard before eating cobra eggs and halluncinating & cold sweats for a stretch.

I suppose you do have a point, Dempublicents1 (though actually, down here pretty much every clinic WILL have anti-venin for local snakes in their freezers - but I realize it's not such a big thing in the US). It just seems so pointless for someone to die of something that's so damn easy to treat.

"Snakes in a Church" ? sounds like a bad movie sequel.

Asps in the Apse.

I suppose you do have a point (though actually, down here pretty much every clinic WILL have anti-venin for local snakes in their freezers - but I realize it's not such a big thing in the US). It just seems so pointless for someone to die of something that's so damn easy to treat.It's not that easy. Where do you get anti-venom from? Usually, they need the venom itself and inject small amounts of it into horses. Now if someone is allergic to horses and horse-based anti-venom is all there is...

It's not that easy. Where do you get anti-venom from? Usually, they need the venom itself and inject small amounts of it into horses. Now if someone is allergic to horses and horse-based anti-venom is all there is...

Which is why modern anti-venins are made from horses, pigs and cattle. They usually do a "reaction test" before giving you the anti-venin - if you react to horses, chances are good you won't react to one of the others. And in an emergency, they give you the A-V anyway and treat you for the possiblity of anaphylactic shock - which can be controlled if it doesn't surprise the medical professionals.

I realize that. I was commenting on your comment about them drinking poison from mason jars.

I maintain, a person bitten by any NA snake should have more than enough tme to get to a hospital and a nice shot of anti-venin.

The problem is that a lot of the more deadly poisonous snakes here in the good ol' US of A live in the places where its hardest to get to hospitals. Here in Ye Olde Tucson there are other challenges, like falling down one of the 12,543,764,123 abandoned mine shafts after being bitten by a snake, which is more likely than you would think while your stumbling around in pain after being bitten on the ass by the rattlesnake you just sat on.
Also, I beleive that one species of rattlesnake (cant remember the name, but it has a neurotoxin rather than a hematoxin) is much less treatable than the others, especially because the venom will start to paralyze you fairly quickly, as well as attacking your muscles directly.

Wiki saves the day! Its the Mojave Rattlesnake.

A woman has died from a snake bite recieved during a church service in Kentucky. The church she attended handled poisonous snakes as part of it's worship services. They base the activity upon a verse in the bible where it says believers could "take up serpents".

I wonder if they considered Steve Irwin a saint or something? Anyway, I saw a documentary on these folks a while back. They don't just handle snakes, some churches have their members drink poison out of mason jars as well and the people don't die (usually).

If they can interpret that part of the bible so loosely that it includes such acts as drinking poison, couldn't they also express their faith by doing other dangerous things? Why don't they go out and wrestle bears or crash their cars into stuff? Now that would be some entertaining worship. They could show it on Sunday morning TV and get huge ratings compared to those other TV preachers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061107/ap_on_re_us/church_snakebite

"Martin Harris having boasted to the brethren that he could handle snakes with perfect safety, while fooling with a black snake with his bare feet, he received a bite on his left foot. The fact was communicated to me, and I took occasion to reprove him, and exhort the brethren never to trifle with the promises of God. I told them it was presumption for any one to provoke a serpent to bite him, but if a man of God was accidentally bitten by a poisonous serpent, he might have faith, or his brethren might have faith for him, so that the Lord would hear his prayer and he might be healed; but when a man designedly provokes a serpent to bite him, the principle is the same as when a man drinks deadly poison knowing it to be such. In that case no man has any claim on the promises of God to be healed." (from The Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith).

Anybody see that X-Files which dealt with a case like this?



Spooky.

I did...Join the OACF!!! :sniper:

In that X-files episode they attacked the SWAT with assault rifles! Defend our cops and join now (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=506020)

(plus we have an unlimited supply of food) ;)

[hijack]PS. I have enought time now South Lizasauria! Count me in! [hijack/]

1) Why the hell would you play around with snakes, when Satan was described as a serpent? You'd think that Satan would be pissed off by being gropped by a group of christians in church.
2)Is the illegal part against the 1st admendment? Saying they can't use the snakes in the services, that is. I mean I can understand making human sacrifices or something illegal, but this type of thing isn't so much as bad I s'pose.

Not everyone marches to the beat of the same drummer. Well, she marched to the beat of her drummer and she marches no more. :(

"Martin Harris having boasted to the brethren that he could handle snakes with perfect safety, while fooling with a black snake with his bare feet, he received a bite on his left foot. The fact was communicated to me, and I took occasion to reprove him, and exhort the brethren never to trifle with the promises of God. I told them it was presumption for any one to provoke a serpent to bite him, but if a man of God was accidentally bitten by a poisonous serpent, he might have faith, or his brethren might have faith for him, so that the Lord would hear his prayer and he might be healed; but when a man designedly provokes a serpent to bite him, the principle is the same as when a man drinks deadly poison knowing it to be such. In that case no man has any claim on the promises of God to be healed." (from The Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith).

I don't think many people will accept Joseph Smith as a source for much of anything, as intelligent as this one passage may be.