NationStates Jolt Archive

Well it appears that after the thoughts of many many people and due to the change in power in government that Rumsfeld is leaving his post... MSNBC, Associated Press is saying now... How interesting...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15622266/

YES, YES, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hat to say I told you so!

I'm so happy! :p

Wow, about damn time.

It takes a political slaughter for Bush to get the message, but it finally came! For or against finishing the war, Rumsfeld gone is a good thing.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061108/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/rumsfeld_resigns

Well it appears that after the thoughts of many many people and due to the change in power in government that Rumsfeld is leaving his post... MSNBC, Associated Press is saying now... How interesting...

Just caught that on TV as I was about to hit bed.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/08/D8L91ID02.html


WHOOH HOOO!!!!!!

Hello, is this the song dedication line? Yes, this is...umm, my name's Colin, and a mean old warmonger's about to be forced out of his job. Got any songs that might be appropriate?

Why, yes, I think I can get something for you...

Na na naaa naaa...na na naaa naaa...hey heyyyyyy...GOODBYE!

And this moment could only be happier for me if Manea hadn't beaten me to the punch...but such is life. This calls for a celebration! **drinks 13 beers at once**

Here's hoping Bush nominates someone who knows how to run a war instead of one of his cronies.

You got beaten the the punch...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=506341

And I'm not about to drain another 13 beers.

Hello, is this the song dedication line? Yes, this is...umm, my name's Colin, and a mean old warmonger's about to be forced out of his job. Got any songs that might be appropriate?

Why, yes, I think I can get something for you...

Na na naaa naaa...na na naaa naaa...hey heyyyyyy...GOODBYE!

And this moment could only be happier for me if Manea hadn't beaten me to the punch...but such is life. This calls for a celebration! **drinks 13 beers at once**

I feel good!

I knew that I would!

I feel nice!

Sugar and spice!

So good, so nice, I ain't got you!

You got beaten the the punch...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=506341

And I'm not about to drain another 13 beers.

Agreed, after I posted I see the new thread... I type too slow :p

Hello, is this the song dedication line? Yes, this is...umm, my name's Colin, and a mean old warmonger's about to be forced out of his job. Got any songs that might be appropriate?

Why, yes, I think I can get something for you...

Na na naaa naaa...na na naaa naaa...hey heyyyyyy...GOODBYE!

And this moment could only be happier for me if Manea hadn't beaten me to the punch...but such is life. This calls for a celebration! **drinks 13 beers at once**

It's because I'm crazy sneaky and happened to stare at the TV at the perfect moment and immediately ran right to Robert Gates is going to lead in his place apparently... that was fast... lol

BBC Radio 4 News has just announced that Rumsfeld's resigned!

Thoughts?

...

Well, that was redundant. Too slow. :p

Bush is about to come on, and rumors are that Colon Powel might replce Rumsfeld and Their are Rumors that a Recount is going to happen in Missouri

Here's hoping Bush nominates someone who knows how to run a war instead of one of his cronies.

Here's hoping the new Congress actually challenges Bush and that they take office before Dubya has the chance to put someone up. That way, we can ensure it won't be a Bushie who takes over.

The Bush house of cards is already crumbling...first the Dems take Congress (one race away from taking the Senate and that one's against Macaca) and now Rummy's gone. If we're lucky, Cheney will give up and Bush will have to nominate someone sane for VP (could also foreshadow who runs for the GOP in 2008 as well.)

Here's hoping Bush nominates someone who knows how to run a war instead of one of his cronies.

i'm thinking it might be lieberman, actually.

It's because I'm crazy sneaky and happened to stare at the TV at the perfect moment and immediately ran right to Robert Yates is going to lead in his place apparently... that was fast... lol

Robert Yates?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lee_Yates

While I am a republacan, I think this should have happened years and years ago.....;)

CNN has confirmed that at 1 p.m., Bush will announce Rumsfeld's step-down.

Good riddance! Be gone forever, you old git! http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/happy108.gif

http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/music012.gif

...yes, I don't like him much.

Good riddance! Be gone forever, you old git! http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/happy108.gif

http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/music012.gif

...yes, I don't like him much.


I Hope Colon Powel gets The Job

What's the big deal about Rumsfeld leaving? The damage is done. The war drags on and Rumsfeld won't suffer in the least. He's a wealthy man, he doesn't need the money. Rich people don't really suffer much when they get fired.

I just feel so good about this. I'm telling everyone here at work and we're all so glad this is happening. I've been railing about how stupid and incompetent this guy is in this forum for so long but, contrary to how it may seem, I'll be glad now to be able to stop! This guy was scary incompetent. I just hope whoever we get next is competent enough to reverse at least some of the damage he's done. :)

What's the big deal about Rumsfeld leaving? The damage is done. The war drags on and Rumsfeld won't suffer in the least. He's a wealthy man, he doesn't need the money. Rich people don't really suffer much when they get fired.

He can't make it any worse, can he? Certainly more damage can be done, but maybee a few steps in the right direction can take place now, especially if someone who actually knows both war and diplomacy steps in.

Bush is about to come on, and rumors are that Colon Powel might replce Rumsfeld and Their are Rumors that a Recount is going to happen in Missouri

Lol. You obviously dont read much about insider Washington. Bush and Powel dont get along at all. Bush asked for Powells resignation for a reason.

Robert Gates will be the next SOD.

At least he's got some education.

A native of Wichita, Kansas, Gates attained the rank of Eagle Scout in the Boy Scouts of America and is a recipient of the Distinguished Eagle Scout Award from the Boy Scouts of America. He graduated from Wichita East High School in 1961. Gates received his bachelor's degree from the College of William and Mary in 1965, his master's degree in history from Indiana University in 1966, and his Ph.D. in Russian and Soviet history from Georgetown University in 1974.

He served Bush's dad as head of the CIA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gates

He served Bush's dad as head of the CIA.

Well, now we know why he got the job...

When i saw that on tv i jumped outta my seat and yelled "FUCK YEA!!!!"

It makes me wonder though...Was he trying to get out of Dodge before all hell breaks loose?

Where's Myrmidonisia? :confused:

First, this is just average carnage. At the six year point, a President's party loses 29 seats in the House on average. Don't remember the Senate, but it looks like mostly Conservative Democrats are being elected.

Second, do you really expect a guy like Rumsfeld to go out in such a way that he would be regarded as a failure? No ... way. He's going to hang on until he's either vindicated or the end of the current Administration.

I'd say enjoy your victory, but unless you're an editor or own a couple media outlets, it isn't really your victory.

Yes it is. The Dems won a huge majority in teh House and will control the Senate as well. As for conservative Democrats, that's fine because I'm largely a conservative. I just want checks on this admin's power because they're so stupid. And Rumsfeld? If the majority had been slim, maybe. If Bush doesn't dump him, though, or he doesn't step down the House is going to pull a dump truck up on teh Whitehouse lawn and start shoveling subpeonas in through the front door. He's toast. Thank God because he's destroying our country.

*sings*

Oh Happy Day (oh happy day)

Oh ... Happy Daaayy (oh happy day)

Ahhhh yeah. *smug satisfaction*

Today is a good day to be a Liberal.

*sings*

Oh Happy Day (oh happy day)

Oh ... Happy Daaayy (oh happy day)

Ahhhh yeah. *smug satisfaction*

Today is a good day to be a Liberal.


Yeah, if it gets any better, I might go out and indulge in homosexual, immoral behaviours :p

*sings*

Oh Happy Day (oh happy day)

Oh ... Happy Daaayy (oh happy day)

Ahhhh yeah. *smug satisfaction*

Today is a good day to be a Liberal.

Today's a good day to be an Earthling. One of the most destructivly incompetent and simultaneously arrogant people ever to crawl the halls of power has been banished with the disdain he deserves. ;)

YES, YES, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hat to say I told you so!

I'm so happy! :p

I never thought it would happen like this, or this soon. I didn't figure Rummy to be a quitter, nor for Bush to dump him.

I guess it'll be okay as long as we don't get Cohen back.

Yeah, if it gets any better, I might go out and indulge in homosexual, immoral behaviours :p

Tomorrow begins it .... abortions for all and a gay couple in every kid's home! :D

Today's a good day to be an Earthling. One of the most destructivly incompetent and simultaneously arrogant people ever to crawl the halls of power has been banished with the disdain he deserves. ;)

Yea, but Hillary's still out there.

*sings*

Oh Happy Day (oh happy day)

Oh ... Happy Daaayy (oh happy day)

Ahhhh yeah. *smug satisfaction*

Today is a good day to be a Liberal.

Uh, is this gloating? I was going to post something similar (now that he's not my boss anymore), but I don't know how low the trip setting is for the mods on gloating.

Tomorrow begins it .... abortions for all and a gay couple in every kid's home! :D

Yay! Pass the embryo juice!

Uh, is this gloating? I was going to post something similar (now that he's not my boss anymore), but I don't know how low the trip setting is for the mods on gloating.

Yes ... yes it is gloating, but Rummy is not an elected official and has nothing to do with the current election process. So I can gloat.

I bet he's doing it to avoid a war crimes oversight committee.

When i saw that on tv i jumped outta my seat and yelled "FUCK YEA!!!!"

It makes me wonder though...Was he trying to get out of Dodge before all hell breaks loose?

Probably damage control before the subpoenas start.

Yea, but Hillary's still out there.

Oh she's still oozing about in there, sure ... but Rummy's gone! YAY!

Uh, is this gloating? I was going to post something similar (now that he's not my boss anymore), but I don't know how low the trip setting is for the mods on gloating.

Yeah, might want to watch that. Frisbeeteria's already yelled at people (in large letters, even) in the sticky results threads for straying off topic to discuss the change from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution in the 1780's. :rolleyes:

I went to bed with dems having control of both houses, then I wake up, turn on the tele and I see this. This is great. I don't have anything against Rumsfeld and I dont think he did horrible job. I just like the President take a hit like this. I watching his news conference and he seems more depressed than usual. I think its cause he knows his run as a King is over.

Yea, but Hillary's still out there.

I'm not a Hillary fan, but what has she ever done that has threatened to destroy American hegemony in the world and has destroyed our standing with long time allies and basically left us floating out there by ourselves? Comparing Hillary with Rumsfeld is like comparing a fart with a hurricane. Rumsfeld was teh chief architect in the most abysmal and destructive failure in American foriegn policy history.

Yes ... yes it is gloating, but Rummy is not an elected official and has nothing to do with the current election process. So I can gloat.

I bet he's doing it to avoid a war crimes oversight committee.

LOL. I don't give a fistful of shit *why* he's doing it. I've waited for a while for him to not be my boss anymore in order to speak my mind without getting in trouble (one of the few times I've been grateful for a recess appointment).

I don't think being off his cabinet post will stop him from being stuck with a war crimes charge in the U.S. The President would probably pardon him in that event, in which case, I hope he gets a free trip to the Netherlands for a tribunal. :)

This is where Corny would have said Rumsfeld is full of shit for listening to his military critics and resigning :D

This whole situation has been very interesting to watch unfold though... Rumsfeld finally gone, dems taking control of at least the House... I'm beginning to wonder what they are going to do with all this newfound power... Guess they can no longer continue complaining about the policies of the administration without proposing initiatives of their own to counter them with. This is going to be an interesting two years leading up to the 2008 elections, will the democrats change things the way they say they want to? Will the Republicans realize that they can't continue leading the way they are if they want to keep their jobs? And the real question on my mind is... how will this affect the prospects of any potential presidential candidates for 2008? It's only 2 years away now and it'll be interesting to see how all of this unfolds over the next year as people start declaring their candidacies and get their campaigning underway...

Uh, is this gloating? I was going to post something similar (now that he's not my boss anymore), but I don't know how low the trip setting is for the mods on gloating.

Someone point out to Mr liberal that the majority of candidates won because THEY WERE NOT LIBERALS...liberals are what lose the Democrats any hope of gaining power. They learned that lesson.

If you look at the candidates who ran....you can see the vast majority are Moderate to conservative republicrats .

You know what I couldn't care less... this a good day to be an American..we moved back towards the center in a big way.

I might even hug a liberal I am so happy .:)

I am SO pleased..!

Now, perhaps, we can get on with splitting that "country" (which never has really been a "country") into it's constituent (ethnic) regions, telling the local rulers to become as democratic as possible or we'll stomp them and give power to their enemies, let the civil war happen to sort out who deserves to survive, and support the winners such that they sell us their oil at "payback" prices and allow us to use their territory as we need it.

How likely is that?

Well,.. at least we got rid of the interesting and smart Donny R, as I know he actually is both interesting and smart yet incapable of doing what needs doing.

Hoorah for his resignation..!!

And the real question on my mind is... how will this affect the prospects of any potential presidential candidates for 2008? It's only 2 years away now and it'll be interesting to see how all of this unfolds over the next year as people start declaring their candidacies and get their campaigning underway...
You will see gridlock for the next two years. I'm fine with that because Congress and the President butting heads over legislative differences is better than rubber stamps on shit bills, producing shit laws.

The Democrats, who are really good at placing the blame on gridlock at the Republicans feet (cf Budget Crisis in 1995), will use that to show why a Democratic president is needed. Granted this goes against everything the Democrats have said against one-party rule over the last twenty-four hours, but people will forget that by then.

The interesting part for me is that, although I expect a repeat of 1995-1996 coming up, we'll have two new candidates running in 2008 instead of one incumbent.

*snip* The interesting part for me is that, although I expect a repeat of 1995-1996 coming up, we'll have two new candidates running in 2008 instead of one incumbent.

And if you think candidates ran away from George Bush this year, wait until 2008 (I heard that the Republican candidate for governor of Florida ducked the President the other day).

I suppose today marks the start of the 2008 campaign, huh?

Someone point out to Mr liberal that the majority of candidates won because THEY WERE NOT LIBERALS...liberals are what lose the Democrats any hope of gaining power. They learned that lesson.

If you look at the candidates who ran....you can see the vast majority are Moderate to conservative republicrats .

You know what I couldn't care less... this a good day to be an American..we moved back towards the center in a big way.

I might even hug a liberal I am so happy .:)

I think you did a fine job pointing it out yourself. :)

As far as who got elected, it depends on where you're at. Here in Hawaii, the just left of center Republican Senate candidate Cynthia Thielen lost to very liberal Democrat incumbent Daniel Akaka. Granted, there are other issues as to why he won, but I'm just saying I can think of at least ONE instance where a moderate lost. ;)

And if you think candidates ran away from George Bush this year, wait until 2008 (I heard that the Republican candidate for governor of Florida ducked the President the other day).

I suppose today marks the start of the 2008 campaign, huh?

Yeah, I'd say so. I would imagine Rumsfeld stepping down will eventually be played down as heeding the public's referendum on his and Bush's handling of Iraq, but I'm sure Democrats will be sure to step in and point out that they had called for him to step down for months and he did so less than twenty-four hours after they take control of the House and maybe the Senate (surely the Senate if you count caucus votes). Will the Dems play it as Republicans and Republican cronies afraid of the consequences of their actions and inactions? I'm sure they will. Now is the time to capitalize on that, while it's fresh in everyone's mind.

I would be very surprised if the 2008 Democratic presidential candidates don't show up by December 1.

Greetings from Old Europe, Herr Rumsfeld. Nananananana!

I'd also like to add to this discussion by adding that apparently Bush overruled Cheney who wanted to keep Rumsfeld on as secretary of defense... Perhaps even more good news for those who have been worrying that Cheney has had too much influence over the years... I heard that on MSNBC a few minutes ago if I can find a source for it I'll post it...

I'd also like to add to this discussion by adding that apparently Bush overruled Cheney who wanted to keep Rumsfeld on as secretary of defense... Perhaps even more good news for those who have been worrying that Cheney has had too much influence over the years... I heard that on MSNBC a few minutes ago if I can find a source for it I'll post it...

Well, the Vice President has exactly two functions: (1) tie-breaking vote in the Senate and (2) waiting for the President to die/resign.

Anything more than that is overstepping his authority, but since authority under the Constitution is presumed until denied*, Cheney's just setting precedent unless he gets challenged. As far as the Vice President's opinion goes, I think I can count on one hand the number of people who give a flying fuck... and still have fingers to spare.

*To elaborate, there are many instances where the Constitution doesn't address a specific authority and someone assumes that authority (e.g., judicial review with Marbury v. Madison, land purchase by the President with the Louisiana Purchase). Unless that authority is denied through challenge or legal means, the precedent is set for that authority and it is presumed to be granted in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultraextreme Sanity
Someone point out to Mr liberal that the majority of candidates won because THEY WERE NOT LIBERALS...liberals are what lose the Democrats any hope of gaining power. They learned that lesson.

If you look at the candidates who ran....you can see the vast majority are Moderate to conservative republicrats .

You know what I couldn't care less... this a good day to be an American..we moved back towards the center in a big way.

I might even hug a liberal I am so happy .


I think you did a fine job pointing it out yourself.

As far as who got elected, it depends on where you're at. Here in Hawaii, the just left of center Republican Senate candidate Cynthia Thielen lost to very liberal Democrat incumbent Daniel Akaka. Granted, there are other issues as to why he won, but I'm just saying I can think of at least ONE instance where a moderate lost.

There are all sorts of weird (and wonderful) things about Hawai'i that make for freaky and nifty politics.

I'm quite jealous of you, of course, as I will be moving to Hawai'i in the next few years, and would like to be there 3 YEARS AGO..!! :D

Biggest possible aloha to you..!

There are all sorts of weird (and wonderful) things about Hawai'i that make for freaky and nifty politics.

I'm quite jealous of you, of course, as I will be moving to Hawai'i in the next few years, and would like to be there 3 YEARS AGO..!! :D

Biggest possible aloha to you..!

Mahalo nui loa. :)

I'm here at the whim of the Navy and, after three years, I have to say I don't hate it here. Well, sometimes when I'm driving. :)

Mostly on topic, but rather than open a separate thread for it: What do you all think of Robert Gates' prospects as SECDEF? He wasn't the worst CIA Director on record, and he seemed to be doing okay as Texas A&M President. But on the other hand, he's a Bush Sr. cronie, and I'd be willing to bet there are subterranean ties in that relationship that would make us cry if we knew them.

I think what's most important about the appointment of Gates to SecDef is the fact that he was previously at CIA. Just reading the signals secondhand, this looks like a MAJOR repudiation of administration policies. By this action, he is quietly embracing the viewpoint that John Kerry expressed during the Presidential campaign, that the US should combat terrorism not with the blunt instrument of the military, but, instead with the surgical actions of the Intelligence Community and Law Enforcement. Furthermore, I doubt that we will see a push for any further military interventions that are not absolutely necessary, under this president.

More than that, I think it was probably decided during the middle of this summer, to remove Rumsfeld, and to adopt a different policy in the middle east. After the failure of the Israeli campaign against Hiz'bo'allah and the increasing violence in Iraq, the neoconservative assertion that we can influence the hearts and minds of the developing world by military force is dead. If Bush knows what's good for America, and the world in general, he will adopt a more conservative, conciliatory tone with the world. Prudent and judicious actions will hopefully become more important than the hyper-aggressive tactics driven by the neoconservatives.

PNAC is dead, as in dead-forever dead.

May the rest of them swiftly follow.

PNAC is dead, as in dead-forever dead.

I truly hope you're right.

I'd celebrate, but I'll save that for the day Bush and Blair pop their clogs. :)

Well it appears that after the thoughts of many many people and due to the change in power in government that Rumsfeld is leaving his post... MSNBC, Associated Press is saying now... How interesting...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15622266/

Rats watched him jump off the ship and said, "What does he know that we don't?"

:p

Mahalo nui loa. :)

I'm here at the whim of the Navy and, after three years, I have to say I don't hate it here. Well, sometimes when I'm driving. :)

E mahalo fo you, brah...!

I *LOVED* driving around (and around and around and around) the islands.

Mo betta fun yo not find, eh?

'Cept maybe make fo surf in da sun, eh?

Auwe! I wan go back fo dem Hawai'i pae 'āina.

<sigh>


(( I need to work on my pidgin,.. got a good book fo dat tho,.. "Da Jesus Book",.. one good read! ))


Mahalo ko'u kaikua'ana,.. a kaikuahine paha.

Aloha nui loa. :)

I do this to sum up my feelings of the entire midterm season...

*Does the Mexican Hat Dance*

Well, the Vice President has exactly two functions: (1) tie-breaking vote in the Senate and (2) waiting for the President to die/resign.

Anything more than that is overstepping his authority.
There's authority, and there's influence. Cheney has influence far in excess of his official title. I don't think anyone doubts Karl Rove's ability to shape US policy despite his lack of official postion in the West Wing. Cheney has that and more.

Rumsfeld was a player, but not a major one. The power players in the Bush administration have never been the names on the fight card. Backroom dealmakers like Rove, Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, and Andy Card have long held greater power than any number of cabinet members or Congressmen. That's how politics works these days in these United States.

Rummy is gone! Obviously we all need to celebrate! It has been a great couple of days! :)

Quite disappointing that it took the loss of the House and the possible loss of the Senate to convince Bush to drop Rumsfeld. Let's hope the new guy isn't as incompetent.

There's authority, and there's influence. Cheney has influence far in excess of his official title. I don't think anyone doubts Karl Rove's ability to shape US policy despite his lack of official postion in the West Wing. Cheney has that and more.

Rumsfeld was a player, but not a major one. The power players in the Bush administration have never been the names on the fight card. Backroom dealmakers like Rove, Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, and Andy Card have long held greater power than any number of cabinet members or Congressmen. That's how politics works these days in these United States.

Rummy was part of that inner circle. It was Rummy, Wolfowitz, Cheney and Bush who were all at those war planning meetings that then Secretary of State Colin Powell was locked out of. Chenny looked up to Rummy as his mentor in politics and in the business world.

Free at last, free at last, thank god almighty, we are free at last.

The scum in the white house are running scared now.

House of cards is coming down.

This election has been a total, unmitigated disaster for republicans.


I'm oddly aroused...

Quite disappointing that it took the loss of the House and the possible loss of the Senate to convince Bush to drop Rumsfeld. Let's hope the new guy isn't as incompetent.

I'm willing to bet money that he will be. Bush doesn't exactly have a track-record of appointing competent people to executive or advisory positions. In fact, all evidence suggests that he quite often intentionally appoints incompetent people since they're willing to say what he wants to hear.

God,bush,israel and america rule and rumsfeld does too im a kid dont give me a cuss word i know u brits hate him and thats ur rite

YES, YES, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hat to say I told you so!

I'm so happy! :p

Big mistake for Bush. Great for the country of course, but big mistake for Bush. Analysts have refered to Rumsfeld as Bush's lighting rod. Without him around, there's no one left to blame. Impeaching Rumsfeld would have kept the Dems occupied for the next two years and let Bush get away with all sorts of crap while leaving the Pentagon in Cheney's hands.

Thank goodness all of that isn't going to happen now, but it just goes to show how scared the Repubs are now that they panicked and let Rummy fall out of the line of fire.

There's authority, and there's influence. Cheney has influence far in excess of his official title. I don't think anyone doubts Karl Rove's ability to shape US policy despite his lack of official postion in the West Wing. Cheney has that and more.

While I agree that Cheney's influence exceeds his position, and I am taking no position on whether it should or should not, I think that using his influence to direct policy while as an elected official infers the authority of that office. There's no easy way to determine otherwise. If a sitting vice president can influence policy, whether he uses the weight of that office as reasoning or not, it sets the precedent for future vice presidents to do the same. Unless successfully challenged, of course.

Quite disappointing that it took the loss of the House and the possible loss of the Senate to convince Bush to drop Rumsfeld. Let's hope the new guy isn't as incompetent.

I heard on NPR today that it's going to be some career civil servant. Not one of his neo-con hacks. If true, it just goes to show how scared he is. He's actually doing something not retarded.

There's authority, and there's influence. Cheney has influence far in excess of his official title. I don't think anyone doubts Karl Rove's ability to shape US policy despite his lack of official postion in the West Wing. Cheney has that and more.

Rumsfeld was a player, but not a major one. The power players in the Bush administration have never been the names on the fight card. Backroom dealmakers like Rove, Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, and Andy Card have long held greater power than any number of cabinet members or Congressmen. That's how politics works these days in these United States.

Rummy and Cheney have been partners in crime since the fall of Nixon. You are far understating the importance of Rumsfeld. His departure marks a huge loss in the administration. Of course, he'll still be sticking around with some high paying job in the private sector. But it is a serious blow to the neo-cons.

I heard on NPR today that it's going to be some career civil servant. Not one of his neo-con hacks. If true, it just goes to show how scared he is. He's actually doing something not retarded.

Yes, he chose Bob Gates, who seems to be a fine choice.

Rumsfeld quit because he's sick of George W. Bush's crappy foreign policy. He's sick of justifying a war that he doesn't believe in anymore.

Rumsfeld quit because he's sick of George W. Bush's crappy foreign policy. He's sick of justifying a war that he doesn't believe in anymore.

Right......

Forgive me if I don't jump to ascribe actual decent motives to Rummy - the man who looked at our soldiers and basically said, "Well, you're gonna get blown up anyways, who cares about armor?" - the first defense secretary in the history of the US not to sign notices to the families of dead soldiers personally, even though he had less to sign than during any other wartime.

Right......

Forgive me if I don't jump to ascribe actual decent motives to Rummy - the man who looked at our soldiers and basically said, "Well, you're gonna get blown up anyways, who cares about armor?" - the first in his defense secretary in the history of the US not to sign notices to the families of dead soldiers personally, even though he had less to sign than during any other wartime.

STFU about the armor. Nobody wants more armor and its a constant fight to get marines to wear the 50lbs of armor that we already have. Armor=nothing.

Rummy was part of that inner circle. It was Rummy, Wolfowitz, Cheney and Bush who were all at those war planning meetings that then Secretary of State Colin Powell was locked out of.
That was much later. The original policy was written back in 1997 as part of the Project for the New American Century (http://www.newamericancentury.org/) (PNAC), with Wolfowitz and Libby as the primary authors and Cheney as the principal sponsor. A lot of the names were on the letterhead for their star power, but the lesser names were given positions (Dep Sec. of Defense, VP Chief of Staff) that gave them instant access to everyone in DC with real power.

If anyone has doubts as to the influence of this organization, note that something like 15 of the top 25 movers and shakers of the 2000 Bush White House were PNAC members. Most of them are still there, or (like Wolfowitz) have been promoted into new major policy-setting areas.

Rumsfeld quit because he's sick of George W. Bush's crappy foreign policy. He's sick of justifying a war that he doesn't believe in anymore.
You must be kidding. He's the Designated Scapegoat, and the official proof that Bush is Doing Something about the war. He'll still have the same level of access to anything important going on in Washington, and his influence will be just as strong, but far less visible.

He took one for the team, and that's all there is to it.

That was much later. The original policy was written back in 1997 as part of the Project for the New American Century (http://www.newamericancentury.org/) (PNAC), with Wolfowitz and Libby as the primary authors and Cheney as the principal sponsor. A lot of the names were on the letterhead for their star power, but the lesser names were given positions (Dep Sec. of Defense, VP Chief of Staff) that gave them instant access to everyone in DC with real power.

If anyone has doubts as to the influence of this organization, note that something like 15 of the top 25 movers and shakers of the 2000 Bush White House were PNAC members. Most of them are still there, or (like Wolfowitz) have been promoted into new major policy-setting areas.

Yes, I'm well aware of the PNAC and their organization actually goes back further. They sent a letter to Bill Clinton in 1993 advocating regime change in Iraq, but once planning for the actual invasion started Rummy was the architect. The PNAC painted a pictue of regime change in extremely broad strokes. It was Rummy who decided to ignore Shinseki and send in 150,000 troops rather than the 300,000 that Shinseki said would be needed. It was his decision to completely disband the regular Iraqi army and police forces. It was Rummy's baby to disband the civil structure or Iraq's government as per his appointee Paul Bremer's suggestion as part of the "debathe-ification" of Iraq. The details of the invasion and occupation were Rummy's decisions though the ideas behind it were nearly a decade old.

Rumsfeld had enough pressure as is....

Can you imagine the pressure now with Nancy Pelosi being the Speaker of the House? I don't blame Rumsfeld for stepping down. I also agree that it was time for some sort of change of having a new face in the Pentagon.

I still think that the immediate withdrawal of our troops is the wrong thing to do though.

I still think that the immediate withdrawal of our troops is the wrong thing to do though.

A wise man once said, "You break it, you own it." He was then run out of the administration's second term. Of course, he was teh only person with real experience fighting a war in the Gulf.

Rumsfeld had enough pressure as is....

Can you imagine the pressure now with Nancy Pelosi being the Speaker of the House? I don't blame Rumsfeld for stepping down. I also agree that it was time for some sort of change of having a new face in the Pentagon.

I still think that the immediate withdrawal of our troops is the wrong thing to do though.

I don't think the Democratic agenda involves the sucking sound of 140,000 soldiers and soldiers leaving the region en masse, but getting them out as soon as reasonably possible.

Ready!Action!camera roles as a disheveled and crying George Bush is on teh phone with his dad.

George: (crying loudly) Dad! I'm soooo screeewed! Help me please!!!!!

George Sr.: Okay, son. You should have listened in the first place. I told you I hated that piece of crap Rumsfeld. Now if you wanna try to clean up your mess as much as possible here's a list of my friends who helped me.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush introduced Robert Gates on Wednesday afternoon as his nominee to replace Donald Rumsfeld as secretary of defense, saying the country needs a "fresh perspective" on Iraq.

Gates, a former CIA chief, was a member of the Iraq Study Group, a bipartisan panel that is making recommendations to Bush on how to proceed in Iraq.

Gates traveled with the panel to Iraq earlier this year, an experience, Bush said, that will enable Gates to come up with "new ideas on how America can achieve our goals in Iraq." (President Bush changes the guard -- 12:07 )

Gates, 63, said Wednesday he accepted the nomination because "the United States is at war" and the president called. (Profile)

"I believe the outcome of these conflicts will shape our world for decades to come," Gates said.

Bush announced Rumsfeld's departure earlier Wednesday.

"The timing is right for new leadership at the Pentagon," Bush said in announcing the resignation. (Readers' advice for Gates)

Bush said Rumsfeld "understands that Iraq is not working well enough, fast enough." (Full transcript)

Rumsfeld has been heavily criticized for his policies in Iraq, and exit polls taken during Tuesday's midterm election, seen by some as a referendum on Bush and his administration, showed strong voter dissatisfaction -- 57 percent -- with the Iraq war.

"I recognize that many Americans voted last night to register their displeasure with the lack of progress being made" in Iraq, Bush said. (Bush discusses Rumsfeld's resignation -- 1:27)

Gates headed the CIA from 1991 until 1993, part of 40 years of public service that Bush said prepares him well for the challenges he'll face at the Pentagon.

Bush heralded Gates' time as deputy director of central intelligence in the Reagan administration, when "he helped lead America's efforts to drive Soviet forces from Afghanistan."

Gates also served as deputy national security adviser to Bush's father during the Gulf War in 1991, something the younger Bush said Wednesday helped Gates understand what needs to be done in Iraq.

Gates is president of Texas A&M University in College Station, Texas, a position he said Wednesday was the best job he's had, despite serving in six presidential administrations.

Rumsfeld, 74, has served as defense secretary since January 20, 2001, the beginning of Bush's first term, and is Bush's longest-serving Cabinet member.

He also served as defense secretary under President Ford from 1975 to 1977.

"Don Rumsfeld has been a superb leader during a time of change," Bush said Wednesday. "Yet he also appreciates the value of bringing in a fresh perspective during a critical period in this war."

With the change, Bush pledged to stand by the people of Iraq.

"Do not be fearful," Bush said in reference to Iraqis. "As you take the difficult steps toward democracy and peace, America's going to stand with you. We know you want a better way of life, and now is the time to seize it."

Bush also expressed support for U.S. military personnel.

"Don't be doubtful. America will always support you," the president said. "Our nation is blessed to have men and women who volunteer to serve and are willing to risk their own lives for the safety of our fellow citizens."

Bush said he wants to bring the troops home from Iraq. "but I want them to come home with victory."

Pressure mounted on Rumsfeld

Rumsfeld has been under increasing pressure as U.S. casualties mount in Iraq. (Watch why Army Times declared 'Rumsfeld must go' -- 1:49)

October was the fourth-deadliest month for U.S. troops since the 2003 invasion, with 105 Americans killed.

As the war in Iraq dragged on, Rumsfeld became a lightning rod for critics of the war, with many accusing him of failing to send enough U.S. troops to Iraq or plan for the country's occupation and reconstruction.

The sometimes-prickly defense chief also has had his detractors in Congress, including many Democrats and some fellow Republicans.

"There were many of us who had expressed a lack of confidence" in Rumsfeld, Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, said Wednesday.

Earlier this year, eight retired generals, including former NATO commander Wesley Clark and the former head of the U.S. Central Command Anthony Zinni, called for Rumsfeld's resignation. They accused him of mishandling the Iraq war and failing to do post-planning.

Bush said while Rumsfeld's resignation had been in the works for a period of time, he held off any announcement until Wednesday because he "didn't want to inject a major decision about this war in the final days" of the election campaign.

Move gains Democrats' support

Democrats on Wednesday expressed support for new leadership at the Pentagon.

"I welcome this change. I think it will give a fresh start to finding a solution to Iraq rather than staying the course," said Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-California, who is poised to become House speaker after Democrats won control of that chamber on Tuesday.

"I look forward to working with the president to see if the new secretary of defense will help work to change course in Iraq. We have to do that," said Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nevada, the Senate minority leader.

"Yesterday's election was a cry for change, and for the first time it looks like the president is listening," said Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York.

Looks like George is turning to his dad's people to clean up the mess he's made.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/08/rumsfeld/index.html

STFU about the armor. Nobody wants more armor and its a constant fight to get marines to wear the 50lbs of armor that we already have. Armor=nothing.

Even on the vehicles?

Meanwhile, I know soldiers, and none of them are complaining about protection. In fact, many soldiers bought armor with their own money or had it shipped to them through charities. Forgive me if I go with reality instead of something a random person on the interwebs said.

I don't see how anyone can argue this is anything but a political move of Bush to try to get Dems on his side. He resigns the day after the election? Bush isn't even trying to pretend that the election results didn't effect his decision to have Rumsfeld resign.

PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!!! :D

*rips off clothes, runs around in circles outside, screaming non-sensical phrases before fainting*

oh...my...God...

It's finally happened...

WAHHOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!:fluffle: :) :cool: :rolleyes: :p

:D :D :D

(srry Im just so happy he's out)

Right......

Forgive me if I don't jump to ascribe actual decent motives to Rummy - the man who looked at our soldiers and basically said, "Well, you're gonna get blown up anyways, who cares about armor?" - the first in his defense secretary in the history of the US not to sign notices to the families of dead soldiers personally, even though he had less to sign than during any other wartime.

wow, are you fucking serious? what a fucking loser....Seriously, I hope something extremely painful and awful happens to that coward. I delcare him to be the second greatest coward of the 21 century!! all with me say here here!

PS. Bush the the 1st biggest coward.

Right......

Forgive me if I don't jump to ascribe actual decent motives to Rummy - the man who looked at our soldiers and basically said, "Well, you're gonna get blown up anyways, who cares about armor?" - the first in his defense secretary in the history of the US not to sign notices to the families of dead soldiers personally, even though he had less to sign than during any other wartime.
That fucking bastard. May he choke on the next thing he eats.

You must be kidding. He's the Designated Scapegoat, and the official proof that Bush is Doing Something about the war. He'll still have the same level of access to anything important going on in Washington, and his influence will be just as strong, but far less visible.

He took one for the team, and that's all there is to it.
Bush throws one of his boys to the wolves every time his back is up against the wall. Starting with Tenet, he went quickly through all the ones he didn't really trust. Now he has to start cutting the ones that really hurt. It's a damn shame the VP is elected and can't be fired, or we might find out how hard we have to push Bush to get him to sacrifice Cheney. He'd do it if he could and the pressure was bad enough. For all his kant about loyalty, he has none himself.

Bush throws one of his boys to the wolves every time his back is up against the wall. Starting with Tenet, he went quickly through all the ones he didn't really trust. Now he has to start cutting the ones that really hurt. It's a damn shame the VP is elected and can't be fired, or we might find out how hard we have to push Bush to get him to sacrifice Cheney. He'd do it if he could and the pressure was bad enough. For all his kant about loyalty, he has none himself.

I honestly believe that Rummy truly 'offered' his resignation, as opposed to Bush 'forcing' him to offer his resignation. Rummy had offered it before, and it was always rejected.

I also believe that it wasn't a reaction to the elections, per se, as much as the Military Times article that called for his resignation. In the mold of Cronkite, once they turned against him....it was lost.

I do believe that it wasn't announced prior to the elections for politcal reasons, of course.

And the Gates nomination is brilliant, IMHO. He's a member of the Iraq Survey Group (http://www.usip.org/isg/members.html)(mentioned by others in previous posts), which is (I believe) the think-tank that his opponents/critics most often cited as evidence that the current Iraq policy is flawed. Which makes it hard to paint him as a lackey. And I also think that he'll bring a new perspective to the fight. Time will tell...

Yes. Yes. YES!

I just had to get that out. :D




He can't make it any worse, can he? Certainly more damage can be done, but maybee a few steps in the right direction can take place now, especially if someone who actually knows the difference between war and diplomacy steps in.

That's what you meant to say, right? ;)

If you want more samples on how the military feels now that the " boss " is gone and they can speak let me know ;)

It explains why he failed ..not listening to your generals is a bad thing :)

Hmmm...isn't it interesting that it took losing the house (and probably the senate) for Bush to finally cave in and accept Rummy's resignation. So much for staying the course!

Let's hope this Gates guy is at least competent and listens to the generals and the soldiers on the ground, unlike Rumsfeld did.

Rumsfeld's stepping down will change nothing. We're going to back out of Iraq the way we backed out of Korea, VietNam and Gulf I. When will people realize that the military is just a pawn in a political game. They say fetch, we fetch. They say sit, we sit. They say play dead, we play dead. Nothing has changed. It's the same today as it was yesterday.

Like it or not, there are issues in the world that must be dealt with. I guess 9/11 wasn't enough of a wake-up call for people and it's going to take something more substantial for them to realize that we're not alone in the world. WWI and WWII were no different with regard to the rhetoric on the homefront. The only real difference is that the generals were allowed to win.



My only words for our president are you are 3 years and many thousands of my dead and wounded brothers and sisters late...out here


Today is a great day.

I hope the next Secretary of Defense listens to the Generals because the troops are the main backbone of the Army. If you want to achieve victory, take note from the Generals, the real professionals of war!

You sense a trend here ?:)


What the foreign wars since WWII have shown us is that the American public's patience for war is finite. If you're going to pull the trigger (i.e. send troops) on a large operation you must commit overwhelming resources, achieve decisive results, and secure the victory. Otherwise war weariness sets in voters demand a change.

We have not secured the victory in Iraq. Maybe we could have with double the troops in 2003. But it will take a lot more than that now to stop a civil war. Politics may force us to leave now, but it was Sec. Rumsfeld's strategy that led us to this point.

"Rumsfeld's stepping down will change nothing."

I dont think so. It will remove the lighting rod that rumsfeld has become from the situation and just maybe get someone in there that will let the experts run the show. Rimsfeld was a failure the first time around ( I was on active duty during his tenure) and repeated his mistakes the second time. He believes his preconcieved notions of how the military should be run are the only right answers. He is wrong and Bush was wrong to listen to him.

I honestly believe that Rummy truly 'offered' his resignation, as opposed to Bush 'forcing' him to offer his resignation. Rummy had offered it before, and it was always rejected.
That's the way they played it. You can believe it if you like. I base my opinions on the whole picture of the administration and its actions.

I also believe that it wasn't a reaction to the elections, per se, as much as the Military Times article that called for his resignation. In the mold of Cronkite, once they turned against him....it was lost.
The Military Times article was probably the last straw, I agree, but I do not believe even that would have made Bush dump Rumsfeld if the Reps had held Congress. Bush has always reacted negatively to any criticism of his decisions, and Rumsfeld's arrogance is so extreme there was no way he would have stepped down just because those ranked below him didn't like him. He's been hearing such criticisms from the troops and generals since long before they started taking their complaints to the media (really since the inception of the war). We know this because isolated examples made it into the media every now and then.

I do believe that it wasn't announced prior to the elections for politcal reasons, of course.
Bad reasons, though, it seems. One conservative pundit on MSNBC told Chris Matthews that the RNC was furious with Bush because their numbers plummeted the week before the election, when he stated publicly that Rumsfeld would keep his job until the end of Bush's presidency. Then the day after the election, he turns around and dumps Rummy. Many campaign managers complained that, if he had done that before the election, they might have had a better chance of winning their races. That may or may not be true, but Bush's stated support for Rummy did not help them. It would have been more politick for him to have just kept his mouth shut about Rummy last week.

And the Gates nomination is brilliant, IMHO. He's a member of the Iraq Survey Group (http://www.usip.org/isg/members.html)(mentioned by others in previous posts), which is (I believe) the think-tank that his opponents/critics most often cited as evidence that the current Iraq policy is flawed. Which makes it hard to paint him as a lackey. And I also think that he'll bring a new perspective to the fight. Time will tell...
Indeed it will. Let's wish him luck.

It's kind of a shame. Rumsfeld gave just about the most intelligent speech I've ever heard from a public official. It was this one:
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
It made perfect sense, and yet he was widely ridiculed for it. I still don't understand why.

It's kind of a shame. Rumsfeld gave just about the most intelligent speech I've ever heard from a public official. It was this one:
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
It made perfect sense, and yet he was widely ridiculed for it. I still don't understand why.

Mainly because it was made in response to the question,"Dude! Where the hell are your pants?!"

STFU about the armor. Nobody wants more armor and its a constant fight to get marines to wear the 50lbs of armor that we already have. Armor=nothing.

So all those other servicemen who complain about not having armor don't know what the fuck they're talking about?

If I'm not mistaken, there were more over there than just the Marines, right?

Ready!Action!camera roles as a disheveled and crying George Bush is on teh phone with his dad.

George: (crying loudly) Dad! I'm soooo screeewed! Help me please!!!!!

George Sr.: Okay, son. You should have listened in the first place. I told you I hated that piece of crap Rumsfeld. Now if you wanna try to clean up your mess as much as possible here's a list of my friends who helped me.



Looks like George is turning to his dad's people to clean up the mess he's made.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/08/rumsfeld/index.html

It worked for him in the private sector, why shouldn't it work in the White House. He probably had his father's housekeeper do his homework for him in grade school.

For all his kant about loyalty, he has none himself.

Just like plans, compassion, intelligence, ability to listen to generals... baisicly, if he speaks well of it, he's the opposite of it. That's why every time he praises a program, he cuts its funding. VA hostpitals, NCLB...

Odd. Now that the Dems have taken the legislature, Bashing Bush isn't as cathartic as it used to be.

So all those other servicemen who complain about not having armor don't know what the fuck they're talking about?
No, they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. All the people who complained about the lack of armor were pouges who never saw a second of combat.
If I'm not mistaken, there were more over there than just the Marines, right?

I was talking from personal experience and the only experience that i have is w/ marines.

Right......

Forgive me if I don't jump to ascribe actual decent motives to Rummy - the man who looked at our soldiers and basically said, "Well, you're gonna get blown up anyways, who cares about armor?" - the first in his defense secretary in the history of the US not to sign notices to the families of dead soldiers personally, even though he had less to sign than during any other wartime.

STFU about the armor. Nobody wants more armor and its a constant fight to get marines to wear the 50lbs of armor that we already have. Armor=nothing.

16 pounds. And the complaint is in regards to the US sending personnel into combat during the early part of the occupation without any body armor and Rummy's response amounting to tough tooty.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,101061,00.html

New Domici View Post
So all those other servicemen who complain about not having armor don't know what the fuck they're talking about?
No, they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. All the people who complained about the lack of armor were pouges who never saw a second of combat.

Is that why the DoD says a large number of USMC deaths were preventable?

If I'm not mistaken, there were more over there than just the Marines, right?
I was talking from personal experience and the only experience that i have is w/ marines.[/QUOTE]

Fine. Just remember that your experience is narrow. I'll take a wider view.

Extra Armor Could Have Saved Many Lives, Study Shows

By MICHAEL MOSS
Published: January 6, 2006

A secret Pentagon study has found that at least 80 percent of the marines who have been killed in Iraq from wounds to their upper body could have survived if they had extra body armor. That armor has been available since 2003 but until recently the Pentagon has largely declined to supply it to troops despite calls from the field for additional protection, according to military officials.

The ceramic plates in vests currently worn by the majority of military personnel in Iraq cover only some of the chest and back. In at least 74 of the 93 fatal wounds that were analyzed in the Pentagon study of marines from March 2003 through June 2005, bullets and shrapnel struck the marines' shoulders, sides or areas of the torso where the plates do not reach.

Thirty-one of the deadly wounds struck the chest or back so close to the plates that simply enlarging the existing shields "would have had the potential to alter the fatal outcome," according to the study, which was obtained by The New York Times.

For the first time, the study by the military's medical examiner shows the cost in lost lives from inadequate armor, even as the Pentagon continues to publicly defend its protection of the troops. Officials have said they are shipping the best armor to Iraq as quickly as possible. At the same time, they have maintained that it is impossible to shield forces from the increasingly powerful improvised explosive devices used by insurgents. Yet the Pentagon's own study reveals the equally lethal threat of bullets.

The vulnerability of the military's body armor has been known since the start of the war, and is part of a series of problems that have surrounded the protection of American troops. Still, the Marine Corps did not begin buying additional plates to cover the sides of their troops until this September, when it ordered 28,800 sets, Marine Corps officials acknowledge.

The Army, which has the largest force in Iraq, is still deciding what to purchase, according to Army procurement officials. They said the Army is deciding between various sizes of plates to give its 130,000 soldiers; the officials said they hope to issue contracts this month.

Additional forensic studies by the Armed Forces Medical Examiner's unit that were obtained by The Times indicate that about 340 American troops have died solely from torso wounds.

Military officials said they had originally decided against using the extra plates because they were concerned they added too much weight to the vests or constricted the movement of soldiers. Marine Corps officials said the findings of the Pentagon study caused field commanders to override those concerns in the interest of greater protection.

"As the information became more prevalent and aware to everybody that in fact these were casualty sites that they needed to be worried about, then people were much more willing to accept that weight on their body," said Major Wendell Leimbach, a body armor specialist with Marine Corps Systems Command, the marine procurement unit.

The Pentagon has been collecting the data on wounds since the beginning of the war in part to determine the effectiveness of body armor. The military's medical examiner, Craig T. Mallak, told a military panel in 2003 that the information "screams to be published." But it would take nearly two years.

The Marine Corps said it asked for the data in August 2004; but it needed to pay the medical examiner $107,000 to have the data analyzed. Marine officials said funding and other delays resulted in the work not starting until December 2004. It finally began receiving the information by June 2005. The shortfalls in bulletproof vests are just one of the armor problems the Pentagon continues to struggle with as the war in Iraq approaches the three-year mark, The Times has found in an ongoing examination of the military procurement system.

The production of a new armored truck called the Cougar, which military officials said has thus far withstood every insurgent attack, has fallen three months behind schedule. The small company making the truck has been beset by a host of production and legal problems.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/06/politics/06cnd-armor.html?ei=5070&en=16e8dcb015c2477e&ex=1163221200&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1163131621-vquM5HaV1pSIwgZa9gIR8Q

Just like plans, compassion, intelligence, ability to listen to generals... baisicly, if he speaks well of it, he's the opposite of it. That's why every time he praises a program, he cuts its funding. VA hostpitals, NCLB...

Odd. Now that the Dems have taken the legislature, Bashing Bush isn't as cathartic as it used to be.
Now it's time to start being nice to him because, as Oscar Wilde said, "one should always be kind to one's enemies, because nothing will annoy them more." Like, today, I was staring at that press conference Bush gave with Nancy Pelosi, and watching Pelosi smiling at him as he was talking, beaming magnanimity and bipartisanship right into the back of his head, like the Cheshire frigging Cat, and Bush looking so. damned. irritated. I almost felt a pang for him. What I wouldn't give to a be fly on the wall in the Whitehouse right now.