NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1285438,00.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20040809-100626-2784r.htm

Did some reading on this as I could not believe it.This guy has got some balls but is there a case to be heard here? Or is it simply a case of 'To the victor go the spoils of war'? I even read today that this guy tried to hire the lawyer that helped the jewish victims of the holocaust sue the swiss government but was told to fuck off.

In other news I'm going to sue every native American tribe because they discovered tobacco and caused lung cancer in those who took their land.

Good. Finally, somebody who doesn't kowtow to the allies.

Where is that "Old news is so exciting" picture when you need it?

Meh it was news to me but , this idiot will probably get his arse laughed out of court anyway

Meh it was news to me but , this idiot probably has had his arse laughed out of court anyway
This is probably more correct. :)

Good. Finally, somebody who doesn't kowtow to the allies.

Are you EVER going to stop bitching about Europe?
And Poland wasn't part of the allied forces.Read the title.

Does Germany need to be taught another lesson in hospitality? and how to behave its self in polite internationale society? perhaps. *sips wine*

The Eastern-block countries _were_ incredibly harsh to the Germans in the aftermath of the Second World War. German citizens were forcibly expelled from these countries, and even ethnic Germans who had remained loyal citizens of countries such as Poland and Czechoslovakia were treated as second-class citizens. In Czechoslovakia alone over a million ethnic Germans (who had remained loyal to Prague during the war) were rounded up by the communist Secret Police.

The Third Reich's actions were evil and inexcusable, but do not allow that to cloud your judgment of the Warsaw Pact nations, the fact is that in many cases they acted in ways that would do the Nazis proud - and I support these Germans quest to seek reparations from them, as an injustice is an injustice, and should not be ignored because one's grandfather was guilty.

I like this line in the Washington times article:

"The idea has not gone down well in Poland, where the government has hinted that it may lodge its own demand for about $30 billion representing the cost of rebuilding the Polish capital after the German forces put down the 63-day Warsaw uprising in 1944."

The German government is now thinking: "Assholes.... why do you want to give them ideas?"

now i understand why a drunk german girl was shouting "give us back east prussia!" at polish at the party a few weeks ago.

now i understand why a drunk german girl was shouting "give us back east prussia!" at polish at the party a few weeks ago.

The parties you go to sound exciting. Can I go to the next one?

The parties you go to sound exciting. Can I go to the next one?

And me! Pleeeeeeease?

now i understand why a drunk german girl was shouting "give us back east prussia!" at polish at the party a few weeks ago.
:p :p
I thought I learned my lesson about eating while on NS. Now i got food all over the screen.:D

The parties you go to sound exciting. Can I go to the next one?

wasnt my house couldnt invite you. i learn alot about what you can and cannot say to people from various people.
some germans dont like it when you sing "deutchland uber alles" at them.
when a dutch person shows you thier attic dont say "this would be a good place to hide ann frank".
austrians dont like when drunk german(same person) shout at them about how they are also german.

These people sound like they have a case to me. Assuming that they were German citizens who had lived in Poland and just got kicked out when the Soviets invaded, they deserve compensation just as much as other refugees. They didn't tell their leaders to start invading countries and gassing people, did they?

These people should get what they deserve, but Germany should also compensate the families of holocaust victims, anything otherwise would be hypocrisy.

austrians dont like when drunk german(same person) shout at them about how they are also german.

I like her. Is she single?

Anyway, I think it's good that Germany is finally getting over the post-war embarrassment. What is done is done, and there is nobody left around to blame. There is no need to grovel anymore.

I like her. Is she single?

Anyway, I think it's good that Germany is finally getting over the post-war embarrassment. What is done is done, and there is nobody left around to blame. There is no need to grovel anymore.

no shes going out with a french dude. at first i thought she was a german with a dangerously simular humour to mine. but then wasnt sure if she was serious. she made the polish very angry.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1285438,00.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20040809-100626-2784r.htm

Did some reading on this as I could not believe it.This guy has got some balls but is there a case to be heard here? Or is it simply a case of 'To the victor go the spoils of war'? I even read today that this guy tried to hire the lawyer that helped the jewish victims of the holocaust sue the swiss government but was told to fuck off.

Oh dear god no....
Why does that remind me of the famous case of the burglar falling through some skylight, hurting himself in the process and then sueing the owner of the house he broke into for compensation for his injuries?

Oh dear god no....
Why does that remind me of the famous case of the burglar falling through some skylight, hurting himself in the process and then sueing the owner of the house he broke into for compensation for his injuries?

It does, true. Still, American Loyalists got some compensation after 1783, so there is precedent for the losers to get paid off. Of course, the Loyalists didn't actually start the Revolution, so ... I doubt this will come to anything, though, because of the Clumsy Burglar Factor Cabra mentions.

They didn't tell their leaders to start invading countries and gassing people, did they?
That's the question, isn't it. Before 1968/69, the standard line was that the Nazis had "sorta taken over" and the Germans were victims, didn't know, didn't want to, couldn't do anything about it.

Many people still try to cling to that today...but the fact of the matter is that the Nazi government wasn't nearly as outrageous and out of this world as people believe. They did have broad public support, and it wasn't impossible to see what happened to minorities in the streets (even though the death camps themselves might have been far away).

Details emerge, and will continue to do so, for some time. Günther Grass' memoirs were the most recent of such ideals, where Mr. Conscience himself turned out to be a volunteer for the submarines.

The safest bet is to try and keep a broad view of the issue. Yes, looked at in isolation, one could say that these refugees were refugees like any others. But look at the bigger picture, and the "guilt vs innocence" line gets a lot more blurry. And apart from the practical political issues with Poland, I think that blurry line should be enough to flat-out deny any claims to compensation.

If not, my family used to have a Chocolate Factory in the Sudetenland. I wonder whether it still stands...:p

The Germans deserve NOTHING. If I were a Pole, I think I would punch the Germans filing this lawsuit.

I don't even give a damn about the Germans killed in Dresden. To put it lightly, I have no love for Germany. More honestly, I think I can say I hate the nation of Germany.

The Germans deserve NOTHING. If I were a Pole, I think I would punch the Germans filing this lawsuit.

I don't even give a damn about the Germans killed in Dresden. Too put it lightly, I have no love for Germany. More honestly, I think I can say I hate the nation of Germany.

Oh, you're another fellow-German, then? ;)

I think I can say I hate the nation of Germany.


I will remember this ignorant quote for a long time.

Where is that "Old news is so exciting" picture when you need it?

Dunno....this is the best I got:
http://home.maine.rr.com/waassaap/Forum%20Pictures/oldnews.jpg

Now since the article linked was in 2004, I'm sure justice has long been served (or at least hopefully). Personally I think the money-grabbing german deserves NOTHING.

Don't get me wrong here....I gotta lotta love for my German brethren, but this guy's a tool.

Germans seek compensation for wartime expulsion from Poland
Germany: Prussian Claims Trust intends to bring lawsuit to European Court of Human Rights, writes Derek Scally in Berlin.

Rudi Pawelka is Poland's worst nightmare. The 66-year-old German head of the "Prussian Claims Trust" has caused huge upset in German-Polish relations in the last two years, but the worst is yet to come.


Mr Pawelka says his private organisation is in the final stages of preparing a class-action lawsuit against the Polish government in the European Court of Human Rights, demanding compensation from Warsaw for what Mr Pawelka calls "our victims".

By that he means up to 14 million Germans forced to flee westward with whatever they could carry after the Allies redrew the postwar borders of Germany, Poland and the Czech Republic in 1945. Those who were expelled left behind homes and businesses and up to two million people died during the march, from hunger and disease and at the hands of Nazi victims out for vengeance.

From a Polish perspective, Germans demanding compensation from Poland is an attempt to turn history on its head and an affront to the six million Poles who died at Nazi hands.

Mr Pawelka fled westward with his family on the last train to leave Breslau, today Wroclaw, in February 1945 as the Soviet army approached from the east. His family held out hope of one day being able to return to Breslau, until the expulsion of millions of Germans in the months and years that followed made it clear that there was no going home. "I am a victim," he says. "I didn't do anything to anyone, neither did my family, but we lost everything."

He is driven by a "strong sense of justice" that the expelled Germans suffered a collective punishment that breaches international human rights and, as such, entitles them to compensation.

As compensation, the Prussian Claims Trust is demanding a return of lost property in what is now western Poland. If the property is currently occupied, they are prepared to accept compensation from the Polish government or an alternative property. "We don't want to drive old ladies from their homes," he says. "We want to establish a legal basis that what happened was unjust, then we talk [with Warsaw]."

The claim has faced numerous delays, mostly because a succession of lawyers took on the case and promptly dropped it again. One of those was Berlin lawyer Matthias Druba, who has fought high-profile compensation claims for Jewish families who lost property in the flight from Nazi Germany.

Mr Druba suggests that the Prussian Claims Trust approached him because of this compensation experience and "to give the impression that they're not unteachable warmongers or old Nazis".

That's the impression Mr Pawelka gives when discussing the compensation claim. It is clear that, behind his remorseful platitudes, he has absolutely no empathy with Polish victims of Nazi aggression.

Asked how a German can demand compensation for a lost home from a Pole who perhaps lost their home and entire family to the Nazis, Mr Pawelka responds with a mock sympathetic expression that becomes an unpleasant smile.

Ask why he's smiling, and he replies: "Because I've heard these old arguments before." Mr Pawelka demands justice and dignity for German "victims" yet views the millions of Polish victims of Nazism as tired arguments.

"What about a 15-year-old German girl raped and sent to Siberia?" he counters.

Mr Pawelka claims not to want to relativise the horror Germany unleashed on Europe, yet does exactly that in the same breath. He pulls from history examples of Polish aggression against Germans or ethnic Germans living in Poland, and talks himself into a lather like a truculent neo-Nazi.

"We want that the people who carried out these crimes cannot profit from them," he says, suggesting that he is referring to the Poles as perpetrators.

This is the kind of talk that confirms the widely held Polish suspicion that the recent, belated discussion in Germany about the expulsion is just a step in a long-term plan to blur the distinction between perpetrator and victim.

Germans view this concern as just another emotional, irrational Polish fear, a fear they cannot or do not want to understand.

Officially, Berlin "distances" itself from these claims, but it stops short of condemning the efforts of the Prussian Claims Trust for fear of being sued itself.

Berlin hopes that this awkward lawsuit will run into the sand. But Mr Pawelka is determined to confront "Polish ignorance towards other victims", even if this causes huge upset in Poland.

The German expulsion is only now, six decades on, being discussed in Germany as part of a wider discussion on the victims of the war.

It would be another tragedy if, in breaking this last taboo of the Nazi era, Berlin was unable to prevent a self-described German "victim" wagging a moral finger at Polish "perpetrators" in a European court.

© The Irish Times

Todays article.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1285438,00.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20040809-100626-2784r.htm

Did some reading on this as I could not believe it.This guy has got some balls but is there a case to be heard here? Or is it simply a case of 'To the victor go the spoils of war'? I even read today that this guy tried to hire the lawyer that helped the jewish victims of the holocaust sue the swiss government but was told to fuck off.Yeah, those guys. As a descendent of East Prussian refugees, I find the Prussian Claims Society and most of the Vertriebenen Verbände reprehensible too.

Nah it hasn't been resolved.It was back in the papers here again today.It appears that the polish government is begining to take it semi seriously.Unfortunatly I cannot provide a link as the paper requires subscription to view online content.

Todays article.

OMG.

WAR IS NOT FAIR! People die and get hurt, land is lost and won by others. Fact. You invade another country you should expect retaliation. This guy needs to get pwned by the judicial system and quickly.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m92/matthewthirlwell/givemepoland.jpg

The Germans deserve NOTHING. If I were a Pole, I think I would punch the Germans filing this lawsuit.

I don't even give a damn about the Germans killed in Dresden. To put it lightly, I have no love for Germany. More honestly, I think I can say I hate the nation of Germany.Have at it you self-righteous fool.

OMG.

WAR IS NOT FAIR! People die and get hurt, land is lost and won by others. Fact. You invade another country you should expect retaliation. This guy needs to get pwned by the judicial system and quickly.


I've got little doubt that he will be.
Unfortunately, he won't go down without causing considerable damage to the Polish-German relations. Which, it has to be said, are unfortunately not the best yet and would need a lot of work even if it wasn't for morons like that guy. :(

These people sound like they have a case to me. Assuming that they were German citizens who had lived in Poland and just got kicked out when the Soviets invaded, they deserve compensation just as much as other refugees. They didn't tell their leaders to start invading countries and gassing people, did they?

These people should get what they deserve, but Germany should also compensate the families of holocaust victims, anything otherwise would be hypocrisy.

But where does it end? Do you compensate every victim of war?

But where does it end? Do you compensate every victim of war?All those and the descendants of those that applied in time, yeah.

I've got little doubt that he will be.
Unfortunately, he won't go down without causing considerable damage to the Polish-German relations. Which, it has to be said, are unfortunately not the best yet and would need a lot of work even if it wasn't for morons like that guy. :(

Yeah I only recently found out about the state of things from another thread.
I wasn't aware until a few days ago that there still was such animosity present from an event 60+years ago. I hope it doesn't evolve into anything military:(

These people sound like they have a case to me. Assuming that they were German citizens who had lived in Poland and just got kicked out when the Soviets invaded, they deserve compensation just as much as other refugees. They didn't tell their leaders to start invading countries and gassing people, did they?

These people should get what they deserve, but Germany should also compensate the families of holocaust victims, anything otherwise would be hypocrisy.Actually, this is more likely about Germans that lived in German territories that were handed over to the Polish by the Soviets as the Soviets pushed Poland westwards.

All those and the descendants of those that applied in time, yeah.

Brilliant. Where do I apply for recompensation for a bakery burned down by Swedish troops in Dettelbach in 1631?

All those and the descendants of those that applied in time, yeah.

Aw... man, soon we're gonna have to declare war on another country and before action ensues, ask that they sign a waiver first so we can't get sued.

"hi, we'd like to invade you now, and destroy your country, please can you sign this waiver first though":p

Yeah I only recently found out about the state of things from another thread.
I wasn't aware until a few days ago that there still was such animosity present from an event 60+years ago. I hope it doesn't evolve into anything military:(

I seriously doubt that, it's resentment rather than hatred. And it's more on a political level, it doesn't entirely reflect the views of the population.

Yeah I only recently found out about the state of things from another thread.
I wasn't aware until a few days ago that there still was such animosity present from an event 60+years ago. I hope it doesn't evolve into anything military:(
I somehow dont think Poland is going to let Germany try that shit on again.Poland had between 178 and 250 nuclear weapons during the Cold War and even if they 'handed' them back to Russia things have a habbit of falling off the backs of trucks...;)

I somehow dont think Poland is going to let Germany try that shit on again.Poland had between 178 and 250 nuclear weapons during the Cold War and even if they 'handed' them back to Russia things have a habbit of falling off the backs of trucks...;)

*lol
Especially in Poland ;)
No, I think the last thing Germany is going to do is become a military power again.

*lol
Especially in Poland ;)
No, I think the last thing Germany is going to do is become a military power again.
You said it, not me.:p

You said it, not me.:p

Oh, the stereotypical jokes I could tell ... :D

I seriously doubt that, it's resentment rather than hatred. And it's more on a political level, it doesn't entirely reflect the views of the population.

I truely hope so.

I truely hope so.

Most of the resentments are actually perpetuated by "ewig Gestrigen" like the person in this particular article. A handful of people who simply can't let bygones be bygones and don't realise that the rest of society has long moved on.

If you ask the younger generation, you'll probably hear that all Germans are arrogant capitalists and that all Poles steal bikes and cars. Perfectly normal neighbourly feelings in Europe. :)

wasnt my house couldnt invite you. i learn alot about what you can and cannot say to people from various people.
some germans dont like it when you sing "deutchland uber alles" at them.
when a dutch person shows you thier attic dont say "this would be a good place to hide ann frank".
austrians dont like when drunk german(same person) shout at them about how they are also german.

Words of a wise nature.

The Germans deserve NOTHING. If I were a Pole, I think I would punch the Germans filing this lawsuit.

I don't even give a damn about the Germans killed in Dresden. To put it lightly, I have no love for Germany. More honestly, I think I can say I hate the nation of Germany.


So you hate Germany? Someone sounds like a National Socialist!!

Words of a wise nature.

wasnt my house couldnt invite you. i learn alot about what you can and cannot say to people from various people.
some germans dont like it when you sing "deutchland uber alles" at them.
when a dutch person shows you thier attic dont say "this would be a good place to hide ann frank".
austrians dont like when drunk german(same person) shout at them about how they are also german.

Ya, well, the running joke in Deutschland, or Germany is that Austrians are "Deutschland Part II" and "The return of Deutschland"

Are you EVER going to stop bitching about Europe?
And Poland wasn't part of the allied forces.Read the title.

Eh?

What about the 1st and 2nd Polish corps in the west and the 1st and 2nd Polish Armies in the East?

The Germans deserve NOTHING. If I were a Pole, I think I would punch the Germans filing this lawsuit.

I don't even give a damn about the Germans killed in Dresden. To put it lightly, I have no love for Germany. More honestly, I think I can say I hate the nation of Germany.
Damn, who pissed in your cornflakes? Flame much?
Yeah, those guys. As a descendent of East Prussian refugees, I find the Prussian Claims Society and most of the Vertriebenen Verbände reprehensible too.
Same here.
Ya, well, the running joke in Deutschland, or Germany is that Austrians are "Deutschland Part II" and "The return of Deutschland"
:confused:

The Germans deserve NOTHING. If I were a Pole, I think I would punch the Germans filing this lawsuit.

I don't even give a damn about the Germans killed in Dresden. To put it lightly, I have no love for Germany. More honestly, I think I can say I hate the nation of Germany.

Well, this means I can't support Israel anymore. Which is a pity, because I kind of liked them.

Ya, well, the running joke in Deutschland, or Germany is that Austrians are "Deutschland Part II" and "The return of Deutschland"

Austria IS part of Germany. They considered themselves German for hundreds of years. In 1871, Wilhelm I had to be called "German Emperor", because "Emperor of Germany" implied ownership of Austria, among other territories.

Austria is part of Germany, just not the nation of Germany. Get over it.

Well, this means I can't support Israel anymore. Which is a pity, because I kind of liked them.

Your going to stop supporting Israel based on the opinion of one Jew from (IIRC) Chicago?

Your going to stop supporting Israel based on the opinion of one Jew from (IIRC) Chicago?

For now. My opinion swings a lot.

Besides, they've been asking for it.

So you hate Germany? Someone sounds like a National Socialist!!

I hate Germany for their attempted genocide of my people and relatives. Germany can go to hell.

If Israel had accidentally hit that German ship, I don't think I would've shed any tears. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

I hate Germany for their attempted genocide of my people and relatives. Germany can go to hell.

Yes, I'm sure all Germans are still Jew-hating Nazis. Although with Jews like you, who could blame them?

If Israel had accidentally hit that German ship, I don't think I would've shed any tears. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

Except for the fact that Germany would wipe the floor with Israel in a real war.

You do know that Germany is a destination of choice for Jews, especially those leaving Eastern Europe?

Are you EVER going to stop bitching about Europe?
And Poland wasn't part of the allied forces.Read the title.

Actually, yes it was. Poland (though, granted, not in Poland) fielded the 4th largest Allied airforce, had a government in exile in London, and was a major contributor of pilots during all during the war for the allied side. Most spectacularly at Monte Cassino, Operation Market Garden, and the Battle of Britain.
Never mind all the Polish units that ended up fighting for the USSR.

Here is a recent article on German and Polish issues.

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/10/31/worldupdates/2006-10-31T010050Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_-274289-1&sec=worldupdates


Also check out this one from years gone by....

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities.htm

What a disgusting sense of entitlement. Perhaps his parents deserve compensation, and that would be a large if, but as a five year old boy at the end of WWII it is difficult to imagine that he was personally relieved of any property or other possessions. And unless he was an extremely entrepeneurial toddler, this idea of suing the descendents of people who took stuff from your ancestor seems a little specious. My family is from Sicily. I should find the descendents of some Roman politicians and sue them for the damages inflicted upon my ancestors during the Punic Wars.

I hate Germany for their attempted genocide of my people and relatives. Germany can go to hell.
Lol.

I guess if some of these people can prove they lived in prussia since before the 1900's the EU court will probably get them their compensation.

problem is, whether or not they were pro-nazi unless they can prove that they treated just as poorly as the native poles during the occupation.

heh? god i need coffee

I guess if some of these people can prove they lived in prussia since before the 1900's the EU court will probably get them their compensation.

problem is, whether or not they were pro-nazi unless they can prove that they treated just as poorly as the native poles during the occupation.

heh? god i need coffee

Right. And when do I get compensation for my family's bakery that was burned down by the Swedish in 1631?

Seriously, that claim is ridiculous beyond belief.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1285438,00.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20040809-100626-2784r.htm

Did some reading on this as I could not believe it.This guy has got some balls but is there a case to be heard here? Or is it simply a case of 'To the victor go the spoils of war'? I even read today that this guy tried to hire the lawyer that helped the jewish victims of the holocaust sue the swiss government but was told to fuck off.

I can see it now...

"The Reich shall Rise Again!"

:rolleyes:

Right. And when do I get compensation for my family's bakery that was burned down by the Swedish in 1631?

Seriously, that claim is ridiculous beyond belief.

Pfhhh. Your family didn't have a bakery in 1631.

Guess we could all sue the Spanish for killing millions of Native Americans...

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

How about "Revenge is a dish best served to the guy who fucked you over not some kid who never knew him".

I mean... Germany today is a VERY different place to Nazi Germany. Hell - you can go to jail for doing a hitler salute or stating that 5,000,000 Jews died in the Holocaust

How about "Revenge is a dish best served to the guy who fucked you over not some kid who never knew him".

I mean... Germany today is a VERY different place to Nazi Germany. Hell - you can go to jail for doing a hitler salute or stating that 5,000,000 Jews died in the Holocaust

That's not true! -.-

That's not true! -.-

Which part?

Pfhhh. Your family didn't have a bakery in 1631.

And you would know about bakeries in Dettelbach in the early 17th century how?
After all, you claimed that Austria was part of Germany :rolleyes:

And you would know about bakeries in Dettelbach in the early 17th century how?
After all, you claimed that Austria was part of Germany :rolleyes:

Isn't Dettelbach in Bayern?

Which part?

Second entire statement.

Second entire statement.

Really?

England football fans were warned about the threat of jail for doing Nazi salutes and AFAIK Germany officially states that about 6,000,000 Jews were murdered in the Holocaust - stating that a smaller number died comes under Holocaust Denial.

Really?

England football fans were warned about the threat of jail for doing Nazi salutes and AFAIK Germany officially states that about 6,000,000 Jews were murdered in the Holocaust - stating that a smaller number died comes under Holocaust Denial.

Then I guess my friend is in denial. 0.0

Really?

England football fans were warned about the threat of jail for doing Nazi salutes and AFAIK Germany officially states that about 6,000,000 Jews were murdered in the Holocaust - stating that a smaller number died comes under Holocaust Denial.

Stating that 5 mio died just shows that somebody doesn't know the numbers very well and it doesn't even deny that more may have died.
You'd not be in for trouble unless you consciously tried to obscure (or lie about) historical facts in favor of the Nazis.

Stating that 5 mio died just shows that somebody doesn't know the numbers very well and it doesn't even deny that more may have died.
You'd not be in for trouble unless you consciously tried to obscure (or lie about) historical facts in favor of the Nazis.

Admittingly the 5mil case is more of a theoretical case for holocaust denial. I doubt they would go after you, unless perhaps you made a public stand to declare the 6million fugure to be eggerated and the 5million to be correct.

Saying "5 million died/were murdered" make a very implicit case that the number was not bigger. In common useage when you state "X people were killed" you mean 'X' and are stating that no more were killed (when you add a suffix then it becomes an approximation in the region. Say 6million could easily mean 6.2million but you would not say 6million if you knew 7 million died. Saying 6 means you are stating about that many died and not too many more (in relative terms).

Admittingly the 5mil case is more of a theoretical case for holocaust denial...
The law is quite specific in its requirements. The prosecution would have a hellishly difficult time showing that you broke the law in most cases, that's why they don't bother.

It's when people do real, serious denials in public, like Irving or Zündel, that they intervene. But they do the same in most European countries.

I´m a jew.
I live in germany and i have no problem with living here.

It´s 2006 you f**king idiots.
Most of the people wasn´t born before WWII :headbang:

I´m a jew.
I live in germany and i have no problem with living here.
Finally! I've been waiting for someone to kill off all these stupid claims on here all the time about evil Germans and evil Muslims and evil everybody being after the Jews in Europe.

Welcome to NSG! :)

Right. And when do I get compensation for my family's bakery that was burned down by the Swedish in 1631?

Seriously, that claim is ridiculous beyond belief.

i agree to a point. But these people were ill treated simply because they had german ancestry.

I don't see too much difference between this than whats is happening in Cyprus with the greek cypriots making claims against the Turkish cypriot side.

we'll see what happens when its put before the EU courts

I´m a jew.
I live in germany and i have no problem with living here.

It´s 2006 you f**king idiots.
Most of the people wasn´t born before WWII :headbang:

A JEW LIVING IN EUROPE!!!!

GET HIM!!!!

If it speaks German it is German and it deserves no sympathy. I dont buy in to the whole 'we didnt know we couldnt do anything about it' lie. The Austrians invited the nazi's into their country as did the Sudetengermans in Czechoslovakia. When the Nazis entered Prague all the loyal Czech turned their backs on the invading barbarians it were only the ethnic Germans who welcomed them there were no milions of loyal german czechs they simpy didnt exist. Maybe not all ethnic germans were bastards but tough luck you know war is hell and all that so some innocents payed for the guilty i say it was still to little to late the rest of the world payed a much higher price than the germans ever did.

BTW about Austria and Austrians, they are the most clever people in the world. You know why?
Because they convinced the rest of the world that Beethoven was Austrian and Hitler German.

we'll see what happens when its put before the EU courts
But you know what will happen, right? There'll be about 200 million claims by people affected by the Nazi aggression and their relatives...it'll drag on for centuries.

And the relationship with Poland will be down the drain.

A JEW!!!!

GET HIM!!!!

;)

hatehatehate bile bile bile hatehatehate

This reminds me of those Japanese fighter pilots who were shot down onto Pacific Islands during WW2 and because their radios were broken and the islands were deserted they got no news and still thought the war was going on 20/30 years later when they were eventually discovered.

Or that film with Alicia Silverstone and that guy who grew up in a bomb shelter because his dad throught a Nuclear War had just happened. Blast from the Past?

But you know what will happen, right? There'll be about 200 million claims by people affected by the Nazi aggression and their relatives...it'll drag on for centuries.

And the relationship with Poland will be down the drain.

But germany had to pay reparations due to the war, i don't know if that included people forced out of the country due to [insert reason].

If it speaks German it is German and it deserves no sympathy.
http://www.schildersmilies.de/schilder/werderw.gif

But germany had to pay reparations due to the war, i don't know if that included people forced out of the country due to [insert reason].
I'm not sure they ever paid reparations as such. The Polish President actually visited Berlin a few days ago and wanted a treaty to be signed that outlawed claims by both sides. For some inexplicable reason Merkel declined.

So I suppose there probably are various Polish families out there with a financial score or two to settle. And who would end up paying?

lol

so thats how it is now, see i deal a lot with Germans on a daily basis and its not like i bring up the war everytime or even that i hate (all of) them, i just dont have any love for the Germans nor can i find it in myself to feel sympathy or pity for them, not when this era in history is concerned. I can talk to a german all day so long as the war or the 1974 world cup dont come up but at the end of the day i still dont like germans nor can i forgive them for what they did. And to perfectly honest i get nousious (spelling??) everytime some german claims that the sudetengermans were innocent or polish germans deserve reperations.
If that makes me a hater fine i can live with that!

http://www.schildersmilies.de/schilder/werderw.gif


I'm not sure they ever paid reparations as such. The Polish President actually visited Berlin a few days ago and wanted a treaty to be signed that outlawed claims by both sides. For some inexplicable reason Merkel declined.

So I suppose there probably are various Polish families out there with a financial score or two to settle. And who would end up paying?

i know could be a real mess.
I think a key point these claimees will use is that after the war, germany lost land (prussia, etc...) and the german locals were forced to flee. Whereas the polish, french, everyone else were able to return to their country/lands once the war was over.

If that makes me a hater fine i can live with that!
Selig sind die geistig Armen!

now i understand why a drunk german girl was shouting "give us back east prussia!" at polish at the party a few weeks ago.
Danzig for Germany!
-------------------------------------------------
Someone said something about Poland not being part of the Allies.
I know they fought in France and Italy...

But germany had to pay reparations due to the war, i don't know if that included people forced out of the country due to [insert reason].

Not to Poland, afaik

Whereas the polish, french, everyone else were able to return to their country/lands once the war was over.
Yeah, but legally it shouldn't matter whether it's a destroyed house, a murdered relative or a reposessed piece of land.

Apart from the millions of Poles who did in fact lose their land when the Soviets pushed Poland westwards.

i know could be a real mess.
I think a key point these claimees will use is that after the war, germany lost land (prussia, etc...) and the german locals were forced to flee. Whereas the polish, french, everyone else were able to return to their country/lands once the war was over.

I think most of the Polish population was relocated actually. Wasn't the whole country moved westwards to suit the USSR?

Not to Poland, afaik
East Prussia and Danzig don't count?*

*They already had the Polish Corridor.

lol

so thats how it is now, see i deal a lot with Germans on a daily basis and its not like i bring up the war everytime or even that i hate (all of) them, i just dont have any love for the Germans nor can i find it in myself to feel sympathy or pity for them, not when this era in history is concerned. I can talk to a german all day so long as the war or the 1974 world cup dont come up but at the end of the day i still dont like germans nor can i forgive them for what they did. And to perfectly honest i get nousious (spelling??) everytime some german claims that the sudetengermans were innocent or polish germans deserve reperations.
If that makes me a hater fine i can live with that!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/NuGo1988/attack33.jpg

just for interest

Pre-world war 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Deutsches_Reich_1925_b.png)

post world war 2 lost territory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Oder-neisse-line_border.gif)

Oder-Neisse line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oder-Neisse_line)

intersting read

but then to be fair

look at poland post 1945 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Map_of_Poland_%281945%29.png)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Map_of_Poland_%281945%29.png

beat you too it. ;)

But that poland link brings up another point. Should'nt poland be able to reclaim that land since is was forcibly taken during the Comiterm Pact (i believe) between nazi germany and the soviet union. Should not Belarus/Ukraine return that land now? They won't i'm sure, but....

But that poland link brings up another point. Should'nt poland be able to reclaim that land since is was forcibly taken during the Comiterm Pact (i believe) between nazi germany and the soviet union. Should not Belarus/Ukraine return that land now? They won't i'm sure, but....
Where would you stop? I mean, you can basically go to the Westphalian treaties and even further with the claims.

At some point you just gotta say 'stop'. And considering that it's all EU anyways, and those "displaced" Germans are quite free to go to Poland and buy property there if they so wish (as some old people have indeed done - some of them even found their old homes still standing), I think it might be best not to start asking for compensations in the first place.

Where would you stop? I mean, you can basically go to the Westphalian treaties and even further with the claims.

At some point you just gotta say 'stop'. And considering that it's all EU anyways, and those "displaced" Germans are quite free to go to Poland and buy property there if they so wish (as some old people have indeed done - some of them even found their old homes still standing), I think it might be best not to start asking for compensations in the first place.

Wise words indeed.

Where is that "Old news is so exciting" picture when you need it?
You mean this one?
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/cw203/oldnewsissoexciting1.jpg

Where would you stop? I mean, you can basically go to the Westphalian treaties and even further with the claims.

At some point you just gotta say 'stop'. And considering that it's all EU anyways, and those "displaced" Germans are quite free to go to Poland and buy property there if they so wish (as some old people have indeed done - some of them even found their old homes still standing), I think it might be best not to start asking for compensations in the first place.

Oh I agree whole heartedly, although those lands taken from poland are still non-EU. I think the whole 'compensation' issue is pointless.

But the argument is still "why should i have to buy something that was stolen from me?"

The Eastern-block countries _were_ incredibly harsh to the Germans in the aftermath of the Second World War. German citizens were forcibly expelled from these countries, and even ethnic Germans who had remained loyal citizens of countries such as Poland and Czechoslovakia were treated as second-class citizens. In Czechoslovakia alone over a million ethnic Germans (who had remained loyal to Prague during the war) were rounded up by the communist Secret Police.

The Third Reich's actions were evil and inexcusable, but do not allow that to cloud your judgment of the Warsaw Pact nations, the fact is that in many cases they acted in ways that would do the Nazis proud - and I support these Germans quest to seek reparations from them, as an injustice is an injustice, and should not be ignored because one's grandfather was guilty.

Not exactly right here.
First remember that slovan (czechs, polaks, ukrainians...) people were deemed untermenschen by the germans and treated as such. The post war reactions are then understandeables, although I personally don't agree with them.
For what concernes Czechoslovakia, the forcible expulsion of German citizens happened based on the so called Benes' Decrees signed by the exhiled Czechoslovakian government in London the 19.06.1945.
For more infos http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene%C5%A1_decrees
Notice that, at that time, Benes' Decrees were considered a form of war reparation for the occupation.
Czechoslovakia become a Communist Federal Republic in 1948.
While i can agree that said decrees are today at least controversial it should be noted that at the time they looked adequate (they were, after all, accepted by UK, USA and SSSR at the Potsdam conference) and that in Czech Republic there is a strong support for the creations of reparations for those that were unjustly expelled.

Many people still try to cling to that today...but the fact of the matter is that the Nazi government wasn't nearly as outrageous and out of this world as people believe. They did have broad public support, and it wasn't impossible to see what happened to minorities in the streets (even though the death camps themselves might have been far away).

Sorry, can't resist...
Dachau is some 20 Km (about 14 miles) from Munchen. No excuses here.

If not, my family used to have a Chocolate Factory in the Sudetenland. I wonder whether it still stands...:p

Where? I could check it out for you ;)

Err, so what's this idiot going to do? Send the Teutonic Knights to Poland again?

If it speaks German it is German and it deserves no sympathy.

Then I suggest you stop speaking English; it's 70-80 percent German.

I've heard it said that English is 60% Latin and 40% German; which is bullshit. If it were true, English would be a Romance language.

Dachau is some 20 Km (about 14 miles) from Munchen. No excuses here.
Well, Dachau wasn't a death camp in the same way that Auschwitz was, but I take your point.

Where? I could check it out for you ;)
I have no idea, to be honest. My grandma told me about it once. I could probably find out, but I doubt it would still be standing after all these years.

And even if it did, it wouldn't give me much, would it. The last member of my family who actually had something to do with it must have died like 50 years ago.

Then I suggest you stop speaking English; it's 70-80 percent German.

I've heard it said that English is 60% Latin and 40% German; which is bullshit. If it were true, English would be a Romance language.

No, it wouldn't, because the basic grammatical structure would still follow the rules of the Germanic languages. English has borrowed so heavily from the Romance languages (particularly France because of their proximity and intertwined histories) that 60% Latin/40% German is quite believable. Of course, since you've provided nothing that your totally unreliable word for anything you've just posted, I'd say the only thing that's bullshit is your 70-80 percent figure.

No, it wouldn't, because the basic grammatical structure would still follow the rules of the Germanic languages. English has borrowed so heavily from the Romance languages (particularly France because of their proximity and intertwined histories) that 60% Latin/40% German is quite believable. Of course, since you've provided nothing that your totally unreliable word for anything you've just posted, I'd say the only thing that's bullshit is your 70-80 percent figure.

In everyday speech, the majority of words will normally be Germanic. If a speaker wishes to make a forceful point in an argument in a very blunt way, Germanic words will usually be chosen. A majority of Latinate words (or at least a majority of content words) will normally be used in more formal speech and writing, such as a courtroom or an encyclopedia article. However, there are other Latinate words that are used normally in everyday speech and do not sound formal; these are mainly words for concepts that no longer have Germanic words, and are generally assimilated better and in many cases do not appear Latinate. For instance, the words mountain, valley, river, aunt, uncle, push and stay are all Latinate.

Also http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ac/Influencegraph.PNG/250px-Influencegraph.PNG

It would appear you are both right. In general useage people will use a majority of Germanic words, but French/Latin words together make up about 60% of the total language.

No, it wouldn't, because the basic grammatical structure would still follow the rules of the Germanic languages. English has borrowed so heavily from the Romance languages (particularly France because of their proximity and intertwined histories) that 60% Latin/40% German is quite believable. Of course, since you've provided nothing that your totally unreliable word for anything you've just posted, I'd say the only thing that's bullshit is your 70-80 percent figure.

Nein, es wurde nicht, weil die grundlegende grammatische Struktur ruhig den Richtlinien der germanischen Sprachen folgen würde. Englisch hat so schwer von den Romanze Sprachen geborgt (besonders Frankreich wegen ihrer Nähe und ineinandergegriffenen Geschichten), das dieser 60% Latin/40% Deutsche ziemlich glaubwürdig ist. Selbstverständlich, da Sie nichts zur Verfügung gestellt haben, das Ihr total unzuverlässiges Wort für alles Sie gerade bekanntgegeben haben, Ich würde sagen, daß die einzige Sache, die ist, Bullshit Ihre Abbildung der Prozent 70-80 ist.

That's your paragraph, put through Worldlingo. If you can speak English, and can't read that, you're stupid.

That's your paragraph, put through Worldlingo. If you can speak English, and can't read that, you're stupid.

I would say it simply means you can't speak German...

You can see the odd similar word, and some words that you can make the connection between but you would not be able to read the German one unless you are a Grade A linguist or speak German already.

Words of Germanic origin =/= German words.

Bear in mind the Germanic words came from only a PART of germany, and other parts of germany at the time spoke different dialects, all of which merged and changed to create modern german.

Often the words will not be instantly recogniseable as being from their origional language. The last time german words entered English was almost 1000 years ago - I think both modern day german speakers and english speakers would have a hard time with 1000 a year old Germanic dialect.

That's your paragraph, put through Worldlingo. If you can speak English, and can't read that, you're stupid.

No, it did not become, because the fundamental grammatical structure would follow calmly the guidelines of the Germanic languages. English so heavily from the romance languages borrowed (particularly France because of its proximity and interlinked stories), this 60% Latin/40% German is rather reliable. Of course, since you did not make anything available, you the totally unreliable word for everything you straight communicated, I would say, that the only thing, those is, Bulletin hit its illustration that per cent of 70-80 is.

And that's your Worldlingo translation translated back into English.

So, if only a handful of Germanic words are used, Germanic rules aren't followed (don't give me that crap about English using Germanic rules; it's hasn't used ANY rules for 500 years, you can put almost any word in any order whatever the fuck you want), and the majority of the vocabulary comes from French and Latin, remind me again; why is English a Germanic language?

So, if only a handful of Germanic words are used, Germanic rules aren't followed (don't give me that crap about English using Germanic rules; it's hasn't used ANY rules for 500 years, you can put almost any word in any order whatever the fuck you want), and the majority of the vocabulary comes from French and Latin, remind me again; why is English a Germanic language?

Because English follows the Germanic structure of the language. If you don't want to believe it, that's not my problem. You can deal with your overwhelming ignorance on your own time.

Because English follows the Germanic structure of the language. If you don't want to believe it, that's not my problem. You can deal with your overwhelming ignorance on your own time.

Germanic structure? English doesn't HAVE a structure. Like I said, anything can anywhere be put and it still makes sense what you're saying.

Germanic structure? English doesn't HAVE a structure. Like I said, anything can anywhere be put and it still makes sense what you're saying.

Structure Germanic? Doesn't a have English structure. Said anything anywhere put be and still sense what you're I like can be it makes saying.

Structure Germanic? Doesn't a have English structure. Said anything anywhere put be and still sense what you're I like can be it makes saying.

I understood that.

So, if only a handful of Germanic words are used, Germanic rules aren't followed (don't give me that crap about English using Germanic rules; it's hasn't used ANY rules for 500 years, you can put almost any word in any order whatever the fuck you want), and the majority of the vocabulary comes from French and Latin, remind me again; why is English a Germanic language?

Are you now saying English is not a Germanic language?

The majority of the vocab DOES come from French/Latin. BUT the majority of everyday useage comes from the Germanic side. This combined with something closer to a germanic structure than a romance structure makes it a germanic language.


You underplay the rules of english just a tad btw

I understood that.

Would you normally say "a red car" or "a car red"?

Nice game with wordlingo.
Unluckly you can do it with almost every indoeuropean language.
Try to translate the same text to italian or french. If you can't read it...

No, it wouldn't, because the basic grammatical structure would still follow the rules of the Germanic languages. English has borrowed so heavily from the Romance languages (particularly France because of their proximity and intertwined histories) that 60% Latin/40% German is quite believable.

Non, il pas, parce que la structure grammaticale de base immobile suivrait les règles des langues germaniques. L'anglais a emprunté tellement fortement aux langues romanes (en particulier France en raison de leur proximité et histoires entrelacées) que cet Allemand de 60% Latin/40% est tout à fait crédible.

No, non, perché la struttura grammaticale di base seguirebbe le regole delle lingue germaniche. L'inglese ha preso in prestito così tanto dalle lingue romanze (specialmente Francia a causa della loro prossimità e storia intrecciata) che quel tedesco di 60% Latin/40% è abbastanza credibile.

On the other hand with the dutch version it is a bit more complicated...
Nr, het niet, omdat de fundamentele grammaticale structuur nog de regels van de Germaanse talen zou volgen. Het Engels heeft zo zwaar van de Romaanse talen geleend (in het bijzonder Frankrijk wegens hun nabijheid en ineengestrengelde geschiedenissen) dat 60% Latin/40% het Duits vrij geloofwaardig is.

Structure Germanic? Doesn't a have English structure. Said anything anywhere put be and still sense what you're I like can be it makes saying.

Have you seen that article where you can jumble up all the letters in words except the first and last and the sentence is still perfectly readable?

Hvea you seen taht aticrtle wrehe you can jlmube up all the lrtetes in wdros ecxpet the fsirt and lsat and the stnecnee is siltl plcfetery rbadleae?

Would you normally say "a red car" or "a car red"?

Usually the first one.

Structure Germanic? Doesn't a have English structure. Said anything anywhere put be and still sense what you're I like can be it makes saying.

LOOOOL
Greetings Master Yoda!
:D :D :D :D :D

Usually the first one.

Which would be the germanic grammar.
The second one is the romance grammar.

Rotes Auto
Voiture rouge

I understood that.

Good for you. I'm sure it didn't have anything to do with the fact that you knew exactly what I was translating. Let me try again.

"Link the is, chain with first forged. All the denied thought censured the the first chains irrevocably speech, thought, us, freedom forbidden."

Germanic structure? English doesn't HAVE a structure. Like I said, anything can anywhere be put and it still makes sense what you're saying.
Linguistics ain't one of your strong subjects, eh?
Otherwise you wouldn't make such idiotic claims.

English does have a structure, and due to its reduced inflection it is quite rigid when it comes to word order.

Which would be the germanic grammar.
The second one is the romance grammar.

Rotes Auto
Voiture rouge

Doesn't seem like such a big difference to me.

Doesn't seem like such a big difference to me.

Try using the other form for a day, and then we'll talk again.

Have you seen that article where you can jumble up all the letters in words except the first and last and the sentence is still perfectly readable?

Hvea you seen taht aticrtle wrehe you can jlmube up all the lrtetes in wdros ecxpet the fsirt and lsat and the stnecnee is siltl plcfetery rbadleae?

Yes, I've seen that article. That has nothing to do with Potato Factory's extremely incorrect opinion on the English language.

Is first up the that where you you have words article last readable jumble can the the the still letters perfectly and have seen all in except and sentence?

Yes, I've seen that article. That has nothing to do with Potato Factory's extremely incorrect opinion on the English language.

I just don't see how a language so lacking in... Germanicism... can be classified as Germanic. I looked it up on Wiki; there are almost as many words with Aussie Aboriginal origin as there are Germanic.

Yes, I've seen that article. That has nothing to do with Potato Factory's extremely incorrect opinion on the English language.

Is first up the that where you you have words article last readable jumble can the the the still letters perfectly and have seen all in except and sentence?

I think when you move things from the begining to the end of a sentance it becomes MUCH harder. Your first example moved the words about a little and you could still make out what was being said even though it was gramatically wrong.

I just don't see how a language so lacking in... Germanicism... can be classified as Germanic. I looked it up on Wiki; there are almost as many words with Aussie Aboriginal origin as there are Germanic.

Because you're placing importance on the wrong things. The vocabulary isn't entirely Germanic, but the structure of the language is. We may use Romance words in our speech, but the way we speak is Germanic. Adjective-noun-adverb-verb. The shiny red car speedily drove down the street. Not the car red shiny.

Because you're placing importance on the wrong things. The vocabulary isn't entirely Germanic, but the structure of the language is. We may use Romance words in our speech, but the way we speak is Germanic. Adjective-noun-adverb-verb. The shiny red car speedily drove down the street. Not the car red shiny.

I think the vocab is more important that structure.

I think when you move things from the begining to the end of a sentance it becomes MUCH harder. Your first example moved the words about a little and you could still make out what was being said even though it was gramatically wrong.

Those sentences were shorter. It's easy to garner the meaning of a sentence if it's five words long than if it's fifteen.

I think the vocab is more important that structure.

Again, it doesn't matter what you think because you're wrong. Linguists, people who are professionally trained in what we are casually arguing, classify languages by their grammatical structure and not their vocabulary.

I just don't see how a language so lacking in... Germanicism... can be classified as Germanic. I looked it up on Wiki; there are almost as many words with Aussie Aboriginal origin as there are Germanic.

How hard did you look?

Linkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language)

In everyday speech, the majority of words will normally be Germanic. If a speaker wishes to make a forceful point in an argument in a very blunt way, Germanic words will usually be chosen. A majority of Latinate words (or at least a majority of content words) will normally be used in more formal speech and writing, such as a courtroom or an encyclopedia article. However, there are other Latinate words that are used normally in everyday speech and do not sound formal; these are mainly words for concepts that no longer have Germanic words, and are generally assimilated better and in many cases do not appear Latinate. For instance, the words mountain, valley, river, aunt, uncle, push and stay are all Latinate.

AND:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Influencegraph.PNG

I like this article I used for some course last year.

http://www.peak.org/~jeremy/dictionary/chapters/history.php

English is a branch of Indo-European, in the Germanic group. The chart shows the Indo-European language family tree, with Celtic and Germanic expanded more than the others. Extinct languages are in parenthesised, with prepended dates indicating when a language became unique, and appended dates the language’s demise, and a range showing both. Indo-European is one of a score of major language families, such as Austronesian, which includes all the southeast Asian languages, and Amerind which includes most of the native American languages. These language families, deduced linguistically, bear a striking correlation with the major ethnic groups, deduced genetically. One popular theory is that all these languages originated from one language, or at least there were a bunch of coexisting ones, but only one mongrel prevailed (in a similar way to people starting). But when was this, and who were these people?

Again, it doesn't matter what you think because you're wrong. Linguists, people who are professionally trained in what we are casually arguing, classify languages by their grammatical structure and not their vocabulary.

That's fucking bizarre reasoning right there.

So you're saying that I could go, right now, and make up a language, using words that I've completely made up, like "Nzzbrt", but if it's structured the same as English, it's Germanic?

Again, it doesn't matter what you think because you're wrong. Linguists, people who are professionally trained in what we are casually arguing, classify languages by their grammatical structure and not their vocabulary.

Remember - that although words of Germanic origin make up about 25% of the TOTAL vocab they make up the majority of everyday vocab.

That's fucking bizarre reasoning right there.

Again, I feel no responsibility to educate someone who does not want to be educated. Suffice it that you are wrong, that grammatical structure is more important than vocabulary when classifying a language, that people who are infinitely more intelligent than you could ever hope to be agree with me, and none of your one line arguments will ever make you any less incorrect in this manner.

Adjective-noun-adverb-verb. The shiny red car speedily drove down the street.

Wouldn't that be "Adjective-noun-adverb-noun" in that sentence?

Wouldn't that be "Adjective-noun-adverb-noun" in that sentence?

Only if "drove" is a noun.

Only if "drove" is a noun.

Oh, sorry. I guess it would be "Adjective-noun-adverb-verb" after all.

Again, sorry. I just woke up. :p

Oh, sorry. I guess it would be "Adjective-noun-adverb-verb" after all.

Again, sorry. I just woke up. :p

'Tis fine. You had me double and triple checking to make sure I'd used an appropriate example.

Ehh, whatever. I'm going to bed.

'Tis fine. You had me double and triple checking to make sure I'd used an appropriate example.

Either way, our sentence structure is easily more technical and expressive than anything immediately derived from Latin.

Simple and efficient it may be, but it seems so... Constraining.

That's fucking bizarre reasoning right there.

So you're saying that I could go, right now, and make up a language, using words that I've completely made up, like "Nzzbrt", but if it's structured the same as English, it's Germanic?

Tolkien's Sindarin is romance, Quenya is Finno-Ugric, Numenorean is classified as a Semitic language and Westron a Germanic one.
So go ahead, invent your own.

oh for god sake..

Classification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Classification_and_related_languages)

germanic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages)

english (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language)
English is a West Germanic language that developed from Old English, the language of the Anglo-Saxons. English, having its major roots in Germanic languages, derives most of its grammar from Old English. As a result of the Norman Conquest, it has been heavily influenced, more than any other Germanic language, by French and Latin.

oh for god sake..
And besides, German went through a weird sorta shift in the middle ages anyways, while the other Germanic languages didn't. So German isn't exactly a good representative of the Germanic languages anyways.

And besides, German went through a weird sorta shift in the middle ages anyways, while the other Germanic languages didn't. So German isn't exactly a good representative of the Germanic languages anyways.

Is this it? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_German_consonant_shift)

*lol
Especially in Poland ;)
No, I think the last thing Germany is going to do is become a military power again.

Yes, and, IMO, slightly disappointing. But, if the Germans don't want it anymore, well, then they don't have to be.

*waves his Imperial Prussian flag*

Linguistics ain't one of your strong subjects, eh?
Otherwise you wouldn't make such idiotic claims.

English does have a structure, and due to its reduced inflection it is quite rigid when it comes to word order.

grammatical a have did when structure? English ever Since

The Germans deserve NOTHING. If I were a Pole, I think I would punch the Germans filing this lawsuit.

I don't even give a damn about the Germans killed in Dresden. To put it lightly, I have no love for Germany. More honestly, I think I can say I hate the nation of Germany.
Uh....you do know that there is German culture and history for centuries before the 1930-40s....that was 2 decades out of German history. Not to mention the great lengths the country and its people have gone to appease assholes like you who hate the country for something that the majority of its current population never even lived through.

As much as I usually agree with you, I think that was a really stupid and assholeish thing to say.

Tolkien's Sindarin is romance, Quenya is Finno-Ugric, Numenorean is classified as a Semitic language and Westron a Germanic one.
So go ahead, invent your own.

That's fucking stupid. Languages which aren't even within the language continuum can be classified in these group.

Speaking of which, English isn't even in the "diutiscish" continuum.

I thought you were going to bed.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1285438,00.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20040809-100626-2784r.htm

Did some reading on this as I could not believe it.This guy has got some balls but is there a case to be heard here? Or is it simply a case of 'To the victor go the spoils of war'? I even read today that this guy tried to hire the lawyer that helped the jewish victims of the holocaust sue the swiss government but was told to fuck off.

you have got to be shitting me. :headbang:

In other news I'm going to sue every native American tribe because they discovered tobacco and caused lung cancer in those who took their land.

lol...

you have got to be shitting me. :headbang:

What, you think the Allies never committed atrocities?

That's fucking stupid. Languages which aren't even within the language continuum can be classified in these group.

Speaking of which, English isn't even in the "diutiscish" continuum.

I'm sure they're all in the Q continuum, though.

What, you think the Allies never committed atrocities?

I didn't actually read the article. I thought it was the german government demanding payment for lost tanks or something. if it's actual citizens, then they have a case - not that anyone will pay attention because of how this sounds. I certainly am under no illusion that the allies are any less guilty of genocide. not in WWII, but no, I have absolutely no illusion that any government is any less wrong than the nazi's were. I would have been as firmly against WWII as I am against all wars. the fact "we" knew about the holocaust but didn't get involved until pearl harbour proves that "our" intentions were less noble than they were retaliatory.

and, um, I couldn't help but notice the argument over the last few pages...english is a pretty firmly classified as germanic. have you ever taken latin? it becomes readily apperant that we're much closer to german than latin or the romance languages when you have to deal with inflectional languages. I don't know about modern romance languages, but in latin there are single words meaning things like "they will have been greeted" (erm, is that pluperfect? I forget the name of the tense, but I know you can do that sort of thing with a latin verb), no matter how much vocabulary we borrow from other languages, our structure reflects germanic origin. you can make up complete nonsense and put it in a certain order with a few suffixes and articles thrown in, (Lewis Carol was fond of that...haha) and it still makes gramatical sense in english. vocabularies shift even within languages, words fall out of use and are replaced by new ones (latin "equus" vs vulgar latin "cabellus", latin "vir" vs. vulgar latin "homo", etc) - gramatical structures generally do not...and are much more important for classifying languages.

(I think I mispelled a few of the latin words, I just know that, for example, english deliberately borrowed from classical latin terms like "equine" and "virile", from the older latin words for horse and man respectively, whereas in modern romance languages, like spanish, you have "san martin caballero" (St. Martin "the horseman" of Tours) and a "hombre" not a "vir-something" - romance languages are classified because of structure, not because of vocabulary - vocabulary-wise, we could probably give a few of them a run for their money in terms of latin vocabulary...but not gramatical structure.

and, um, I couldn't help but notice the argument over the last few pages...english is a pretty firmly classified as germanic. have you ever taken latin? it becomes readily apperant that we're much closer to german than latin or the romance languages when you have to deal with inflectional languages. I don't know about modern romance languages, but in latin there are single words meaning things like "they will have been greeted" (erm, is that pluperfect? I forget the name of the tense, but I know you can do that sort of thing with a latin verb), no matter how much vocabulary we borrow from other languages, our structure reflects germanic origin. you can make up complete nonsense and put it in a certain order with a few suffixes and articles thrown in, (Lewis Carol was fond of that...haha) and it still makes gramatical sense in english. vocabularies shift even within languages, words fall out of use and are replaced by new ones (latin "equus" vs vulgar latin "cabellus", latin "vir" vs. vulgar latin "homo", etc) - gramatical structures generally do not...and are much more important for classifying languages.

(I think I mispelled a few of the latin words, I just know that, for example, english deliberately borrowed from classical latin terms like "equine" and "virile", from the older latin words for horse and man respectively, whereas in modern romance languages, like spanish, you have "san martin caballero" (St. Martin "the horseman" of Tours) and a "hombre" not a "vir-something" - romance languages are classified because of structure, not because of vocabulary - vocabulary-wise, we could probably give a few of them a run for their money in terms of latin vocabulary...but not gramatical structure.


It's Futur II ;)
Romance languages allow you to place any word anywhere in the sentence as the grammatical form of the word determines its semantic function. But there are still some patterns that are followed out of habit, like placing adjectives after the noun they belong to, or placing the verb at the end of the sentence (in Latin)

The differences between the Latin words in English and the current vocab of romance languages is most likely that English borrowed its words from classical texts and the Latin of scholars, whereas the romance languages evolved from the vulgar Latin that was actually spoken by the people.

The differences between the Latin words in English and the current vocab of romance languages is most likely that English borrowed its words from classical texts and the Latin of scholars, whereas the romance languages evolved from the vulgar Latin that was actually spoken by the people.

indeed. I have such great fun with etymology and languages that I often forget I was trying to make a point...lol - probably why I've never successfully learned a language, unless the latin my poor sweet teacher managed to beat through my thick skull counts.

Interesting take on a similar issue:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,447136,00.html
Wednesday evening's art auction in New York promises to be a premier society event. But it will also reopen a major question facing German museums: When it comes to art taken from Jewish collectors by the Nazis, does morality trump money?

Where do you stand? Should the paintings be returned, or would the gesture be meaningless, seeing as to how they would immediately be resold for millions and millions of dollars?

Interesting take on a similar issue:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,447136,00.html


Where do you stand? Should the paintings be returned, or would the gesture be meaningless, seeing as to how they would immediately be resold for millions and millions of dollars?

I've wondered myself in the past... I never came to any conclusion.
Most of the paintings stolen by the Nazis are now in museums around the world, displayed for the public. Were they to be returned, the museums would either have to buy them back, which many of them wouldn't be able to do, or else the paintings would vanish forever in private collections.
Either way, the public would lose out.

On the other hand, those paintings were clearly stolen. Although in most cases not from the people trying to reclaim them today, but from their parents and grandparents. For many of those who try to reclaim them today, they have merely financial value, there are no memories or sentiments connected with these works of art.

Short answer : I really don't know.

Shut up! :(

Give Guderian (http://www.2iemeguerre.com/protagonistes/images/image1281.jpg) his land back.
Give Von Manstein (http://www.corazzati.it/manstein_fotobn2.jpg) his land back and lets call it a day.

I am pretty sure that Von Manstien definatly lost land being from Prussia and all.-He was so Jewish.:p

Interesting take on a similar issue:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,447136,00.html


Where do you stand? Should the paintings be returned, or would the gesture be meaningless, seeing as to how they would immediately be resold for millions and millions of dollars?
Return the paintings but they(The old/new owners) aren't allowed to sell them or give them away or mysteriously lose them or have them stolen for 50 years.

vocabularies shift even within languages, words fall out of use and are replaced by new ones (latin "equus" vs vulgar latin "cabellus", latin "vir" vs. vulgar latin "homo", etc) - gramatical structures generally do not...and are much more important for classifying languages.


If i remember my latin... ;)
The equus / caballus example is correct
The vir (should be vis since it is vis, roboris) / homo (should be hominus, homo) is wrong since in classical latin vis meant strenght while hominus meant man.

I don't even give a damn about the Germans killed in Dresden. To put it lightly, I have no love for Germany. More honestly, I think I can say I hate the nation of Germany.

:confused:
but its the master race?
:eek:
why wouldnt you love germany?

Yes, I'm sure all Germans are still Jew-hating Nazis. Although with Jews like you, who could blame them?



Except for the fact that Germany would wipe the floor with Israel in a real war.

You do know that Germany is a destination of choice for Jews, especially those leaving Eastern Europe?

ha ha ah.

"the protestants hate the catholics,
and the catholics hate the protestants.
the hindus hate the muslims,
and everybody hates the jews."

last night my german friend was argueing with my moronic french friend. about jesus and art. the arguement wasnt going anywhere.
went outside with the german to have a smoke. i asked if he was having a tough time agrueing with him. he replied, "he's just an idiot, he's also french. you know theres no cure for that?"
i replied, "at least the germans tried, twice."

Just an update regarding the paintings...

One was sold yesterday for US$38.1 million. The interesting part is however that there was never any proof the original Jewish collector was actually pressured to sell the painting in 1937, he may well have done so voluntarily.

The daughter of that collector managed to get it returned to her nonetheless, thanks to a lot of work of a friend of hers...art specialist and billionaire Ronald S. Lauder.

Guess who bought the painting? (http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,447475,00.html)

Why on earth do you (IDF) hate an entire nation? What have +80 million people collectively done to you? Or what has their state done to you?

Why on earth do you (IDF) hate an entire nation? What have +80 million people collectively done to you? Or what has their state done to you?

Because, clearly, the acts of a single generation of people are a reflection on the past, present, and future of a populus.

Duh.

last night my german friend was argueing with my moronic french friend. about jesus and art. the arguement wasnt going anywhere.
went outside with the german to have a smoke. i asked if he was having a tough time agrueing with him. he replied, "he's just an idiot, he's also french. you know theres no cure for that?"
i replied, "at least the germans tried, twice."
http://209.85.12.227/1381/85/emo/laugh.gif

Are we going to blame all the Jews for the state terror committed by the IDF recently? How many were killed in that "mistake" of them? Nineteen Palestinians amongst whom children?

The war "against Hezbollah". I agree Hezbollah started it and should not exist and is indeed a terrorist organization. But the bombing of S.Beirut was simply about murdering civilians.

World War II was a catastrophe, but you cannot blame Germany for that nowadays. Also not the entire generation who lived there.

One of the reasons the Israeli government doesn't recognize the Armenian Genocide is (besides the good military relations) because they want to keep the WWII Holocaust unique.

Are all the Americans (and their allies in that war) responsible for the war crimes against the Vietnamese, the many innocent villages where buildings and life was completely destroyed? Arguably they more to blame for that than you can blame the Germans for WWII. Unlike the Germans the Americans voted for the government who fought this war.

There are so many dictatorships which have committed or are committing terrible crimes against humanity. Are all Iranians responsible for the system in their homeland?