NationStates Jolt Archive

I just can't shake the feeling that the Democrats will do poorly tomorrow, at least in the states where it'll count. This is mainly due to the new electronic voting machines, which 8 out of every 10 voters will be using. I have heard nothing but bad things (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=502003) about Diebold and their ilk: gaping security holes, vote-stealing viruses, GOP ties, money-laundering, thousands of missing memory cards, minor elections botched, etc., etc., etc. Considering that the key states for a Democratic Senate victory are teetering on razor-thin margins, it seems like even isolated instances of tampering could keep the Senate under Republican control. Of course, since Diebold machines are cleverly designed to make sabotage undetectable, there would be no way to prove it.

Someone please assuage my fears...

EDIT: To be perfectly clear, I don't mean there will be massive fraud that will keep both houses with the GOP. I'm talking just enough to tip the key senate states (Missouri, Virginia, etc.) to their side.

I just can't shake the feeling that the Democrats will do poorly tomorrow, at least in the states where it'll count. This is mainly due to the new electronic voting machines, which 8 out of every 10 voters will be using. I have heard nothing but bad things (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=502003) about Diebold and their ilk: gaping security holes, vote-stealing viruses, GOP ties, money-laundering, thousands of missing memory cards, minor elections botched, etc., etc., etc. Considering that the key states for a Democratic Senate victory are teetering on razor-thin margins, it seems like even isolated instances of tampering could keep the Senate under Republican control.

You're probably correct.

So, basically, if the Republicans win tomorrow, it is because they cheated. But if the Democrats win, its because they are the better party?

Am I the only one who thinks that idea is just fucking stupid?

Here's a thought for you; if the Republicans do happen to win, it really means that all these damned polls we see are just as worthless as they appear, and enough people still prefer the Republicans that are running over their Democrat opponents.

No, that couldn't be it, could it? That would be, oh the horror, REALITY! But no, that couldn't happen, because everyone knows that Republicans are evil personified and the Democatic Party full of saints who will lead us all to Utopia.

:rolleyes:

Here's a news flash for you, if the Democratic Party takes control, we will have another six years of massive spending on various pork projects, corruption in the House and Senate, and political leaders who are only in it for their own financial and political gain. Otherwise known as; Status Quo.

Reality sucks, don't it?

the dems always find a way to screw things up. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they do it again. Or voter fraud sweeps in and makes sure the GOP stays. gotta love e-voting machines:p

Diebold machines are built poorly and there is a glitch I've heard about that with eventual use the touch screen misreads to republican when you press democrat.

Be happy- its not a conspiracy against democrats its just built horribly, so I've heard.

Diebold machines are built poorly and there is a glitch I've heard about that with eventual use the touch screen misreads to republican when you press democrat.

Be happy- its not a conspiracy against democrats its just built horribly, so I've heard.

Even though I cheer for Republicans I don't what glitches because Democrats will feel like the election was purposefuly stolen.

So, basically, if the Republicans win tomorrow, it is because they cheated. But if the Democrats win, its because they are the better party?
Actually, the vast majority of voting "errors" benefit Republicans, and the board of Diebold has ties to the GOP, and many GOP officials own stock in Diebold.

That's just a taste. Read this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=502003) for the full story.

Here's a thought for you; if the Republicans do happen to win, it really means that all these damned polls we see are just as worthless as they appear, and enough people still prefer the Republicans that are running over their Democrat opponents.

Or you know, maybe there's that whole bit about the voting machines that you completely ignored so that you could have a nice partisan rant about "reality."

Or you know, maybe there's that whole bit about the voting machines that you completely ignored so that you could have a nice partisan rant about "reality."
Funny, ain't it, how some people have to ignore reality to make up those rants about "reality."

As for the OP, yeah, I have that kinda sick feeling too. This election is going to be a fucking nightmare, thanks to those e-voting machines, but even without them -- I just don't have any faith in Americans any more.

Or you know, maybe there's that whole bit about the voting machines that you completely ignored so that you could have a nice partisan rant about "reality."

Apparently you've never read the threads where I mentioned that I am a LIBERTARIAN? Partisan my ass. I see Dems and Rep as the same damned thing, a bunch of power-hungry, corrupt sacks of shit who want everyone be exactly like them.

Sorry, but when did poor software design equate with corruption, fraud and vote stealing? Hell, I guess that means that Microsoft is a fraudulant company!

Sorry, but when did poor software design equate with corruption, fraud and vote stealing?
Here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=502003), here (http://www.nogw.com/electionfraud.html), and here (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=diebold+corrupt&btnG=Google+Search), for starters.

Hell, I guess that means that Microsoft is a fraudulant company!
It is, in some ways.

K, Rhao.

Take a deep breath.

Now let it out.

It is a definite risk. Of that there can be no doubt. However, that risk is being mitigated strongly by the actions of both parties, who are scrambling to make sure that the polls are being properly watched. In fact, I expect that in close states, every polling place will be observed, and all voters may be asked if they experienced any irregularities in their voting process.

K, Rhao.

Take a deep breath.
*inhales*

Now let it out.
*sputters*

It is a definite risk. Of that there can be no doubt. However, that risk is being mitigated strongly by the actions of both parties, who are scrambling to make sure that the polls are being properly watched. In fact, I expect that in close states, every polling place will be observed, and all voters may be asked if they experienced any irregularities in their voting process.
Oh, yeah... I almost forgot about these guys (http://www.videothevote.org/). Sure, they won't be able to catch e-voting fraud, but it'll go a long way towards discouraging voter intimidation, long lines, etc.

http://gregpalast.com/ says:

...
Theft #1: Registrations gone with the wind
...
Theft #2: Turned Away - the ID game
...
Theft #3: Votes Spoiled Rotten
...
So Let’s Add it Up

Two million legitimate voters will be turned away because of wrongly rejected or purged registrations.

Add another one million voters challenged and turned away for “improper ID.”

Then add yet another million for Democratic votes “spoiled” by busted black boxes and by bad ballots.

And let’s not forget to include the one million “provisional” ballots which will never get counted. Based on the experience of 2004, we know that, overwhelmingly, minority voters are the ones shunted to these baloney ballots.

And there’s one more group of votes that won’t be counted: absentee ballots challenged and discarded. Elections Assistance Agency data tell us a half million of these absentee votes will go down the drain.

Driving this massive suppression of the vote are sophisticated challenge operations. And here I must note that the Democrats have no national challenge campaign. That’s morally laudable; electorally suicidal.

Add it all up — all those Democratic-leaning votes rejected, barred and spoiled — and the Republican Party begins Election Day with a 4.5 million-vote thumb on the vote-tally scale.

So, what are you going to do about it? May I suggest you… steal back your vote.

It’s true you can’t win with 51% of the vote anymore. So just get over it. The regime’s sneak attack via vote suppression will only net them 4.5 million votes, about 5% of the total. You should be able to beat that blindfolded. If you can’t get 55%, then you’re just a bunch of crybaby pussycats who don’t deserve to win back America.

********
Greg Palast is the author of the New York Times bestseller, “ARMED MADHOUSE.”

For specific advice on How to Steal Back Your Vote, go to www.GregPalast.com/steal-back-your-vote#more-1529

Do they do EXIT polls on midterm elections?

If I remember correctly, the exit polls on Nov. 2004 had Kerry winning Ohio by about 2%, yet he lost the State.

If the exit polls once again reflect wacko results, perhaps there needs to be a HUGE investigation?

Oh, yeah... I almost forgot about these guys (http://www.videothevote.org/). Sure, they won't be able to catch e-voting fraud, but it'll go a long way towards discouraging voter intimidation, long lines, etc.

Other important jobs will go to civilian journalists who will ask about voting irregularities at the door, and people who are willing to talk about it. The whole point is to get as much documentation as possible without depending on traditional media sources to get it.

I had a thread on this:

Hacking Democracy 101 (http://forums3.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=505837)

Watch how easy it is to steal votes and avoid detection:

A video demonstration can be seen here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8673726680080882009&hl=en)

Scary stuff indeed. Good luck America. Time to restore the checks and balances to government?

I just can't shake the feeling that the Democrats will do poorly tomorrow, at least in the states where it'll count. This is mainly due to the new electronic voting machines, which 8 out of every 10 voters will be using. I have heard nothing but bad things (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=502003) about Diebold and their ilk: gaping security holes, vote-stealing viruses, GOP ties, money-laundering, thousands of missing memory cards, minor elections botched, etc., etc., etc. Considering that the key states for a Democratic Senate victory are teetering on razor-thin margins, it seems like even isolated instances of tampering could keep the Senate under Republican control. Of course, since Diebold machines are cleverly designed to make sabotage undetectable, there would be no way to prove it.

Someone please assuage my fears...

EDIT: To be perfectly clear, I don't mean there will be massive fraud that will keep both houses with the GOP. I'm talking just enough to tip the key senate states (Missouri, Virginia, etc.) to their side.

*assuages*

We're all fucked. *nod*

Feel better? :)

Do they do EXIT polls on midterm elections?

If I remember correctly, the exit polls on Nov. 2004 had Kerry winning Ohio by about 2%, yet he lost the State.

If the exit polls once again reflect wacko results, perhaps there needs to be a HUGE investigation?
It wasn't just Ohio. Check out these statistics:

Poll by MSNBC/Zogby on Nov. 3 for Colorado Senate
Tom Strickland (D) 53%
Wayne Allard (R) 44%

"Official Results" from the 'Diebold Electronic Voting Machines' on Nov. 5
Tom Strickland (D) 46%
Wayne Allard (R) 51%


Minneapolis Star-Tribune Poll on Nov. 3 for Minnesota Senate
Walter Mondale (D) 46%
Norm Coleman (R) 41%

"Official Results" from the 'Diebold Electronic Voting Machines' on Nov. 5
Norm Coleman (R) 50%
Walter Mondale (D) 47%


Poll by Atlanta Journal Constitution Nov. 1 for Georgia Senate
Max Cleland (D) 49%
Saxby Chambliss (R) 44%

"Official Results" from the 'Diebold Electronic Voting Machines' on Nov. 5
Max Cleland (D) 46%
Saxby Chambliss 53%


Poll by Atlanta Journal Constitution/WSB-TV of 800 likely voters on Nov. 1 For Georgia Governor
Roy Barnes (D) 51%
Sonny Perdue (R) 40%

"Official Results" from the 'Diebold Electronic Voting Machines' on Nov. 5
Roy Barnes (D) 46%
Sonny Perdue (R) 51%
I detect a pattern...

I cannot find the Diebold internal memos. The links which used to work no longer work. I'm not trying to start a conspiracy... I just want to find them.

I cannot find the Diebold internal memos. The links which used to work no longer work. I'm not trying to start a conspiracy... I just want to find them.
Here's one pdf file (http://www.equalccw.com/ElectionSupportGuide.pdf). The relevant quote is at the tail-end of section 3.2. There may be more info there, but it's waaay too long for me to search at the moment.

Looking for more right now...

Here's one pdf file (http://www.equalccw.com/ElectionSupportGuide.pdf). The relevant quote is at the tail-end of section 3.2. There may be more info there, but it's waaay too long for me to search at the moment.

Looking for more right now...

Thank you but it wasn't what I was looking for. There are emails between engineers and tech support and others in the company where they talked about the problems with the Diebold machines. I think they might have all been taken down.

Thank you but it wasn't what I was looking for. There are emails between engineers and tech support and others in the company where they talked about the problems with the Diebold machines. I think they might have all been taken down.
Yeah, they must have been spooked... every linked copy has been taken down via cease and desist orders.

EDIT: Actually, there is a partial database here (http://www.provocation.net/diebold/). It's pretty big, and not searchable, but most of the memos are there.

Also, a transcript of some of the memos is in the third post on this page (http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2003/09/29/16494191.php?show_comments=1#16657811).

Yeah, they must have been spooked... every linked copy has been taken down via cease and desist orders.

EDIT: Actually, there is a partial database here (http://www.provocation.net/diebold/). It's pretty big, and not searchable, but most of the memos are there.

Also, a transcript of some of the memos is in the third post on this page (http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2003/09/29/16494191.php?show_comments=1#16657811).

Excellent. Thank you. They wouldn't let me on with IE, had to use Firefox.

Do they do EXIT polls on midterm elections?

If I remember correctly, the exit polls on Nov. 2004 had Kerry winning Ohio by about 2%, yet he lost the State.

If the exit polls once again reflect wacko results, perhaps there needs to be a HUGE investigation?
Yeah, but who would conduct such an investigation?

We'd have to appeal to places like Azerbaijan for election inspectors.
:headbang:

You're paranoid but the Republicans will still win because too many Americans still think they're the better party.:headbang:

You're paranoid but the Republicans will still win because too many Americans still think they're the better party.:headbang:

How? Screwing up in Iraq and wasting time in Congress with flag burning and gay marriage ban amendments makes the GOP better? People are simply dumb.

Do they do EXIT polls on midterm elections?

If I remember correctly, the exit polls on Nov. 2004 had Kerry winning Ohio by about 2%, yet he lost the State.

If the exit polls once again reflect wacko results, perhaps there needs to be a HUGE investigation?

I tend to lie to the exit poll people, is that a problem?

I tend to lie to the exit poll people, is that a problem?

Why do you lie to them?

Why do you lie to them?

they piss me off.

they piss me off.

Set your kids on them ;)

Screwing up in Iraq and wasting time in Congress with flag burning and gay marriage ban amendments makes the GOP better?

The GOP goes for issues that get votes. Fervently patriotic Americans want to ban flag burning, and the gay-haters want to ban gay marriage. Also, too many people believe that we're doing well in Iraq and that we are right no matter what happens. That's why the GOP will win. That and the Dems are colossally incompetent.

Set your kids on them ;)

we had a gallup poll call a few weeks back, I let my 3 year old answer the questions.

we had a gallup poll call a few weeks back, I let my 3 year old answer the questions.
lollercaust!

How'd she do?

lollercaust!

How'd she do?

good, she is more liberal than I am, but she gave me back the phone for the summary and it was almost what I would have put anyway.

I just can't shake the feeling that the Democrats will do poorly tomorrow,...


If Dems do not manage to upset the balance in the 'little' elections, they actually probably have a better chance of taking the next 'big' elections with a clean sweep....

They don't poll rural areas much so I trust "exit" polls about as much as I believe that those jack booted individuals at my door are "here to help".

I just can't shake the feeling that the Democrats will do poorly tomorrow, at least in the states where it'll count. This is mainly due to the new electronic voting machines, which 8 out of every 10 voters will be using. I have heard nothing but bad things (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=502003) about Diebold and their ilk: gaping security holes, vote-stealing viruses, GOP ties, money-laundering, thousands of missing memory cards, minor elections botched, etc., etc., etc. Considering that the key states for a Democratic Senate victory are teetering on razor-thin margins, it seems like even isolated instances of tampering could keep the Senate under Republican control. Of course, since Diebold machines are cleverly designed to make sabotage undetectable, there would be no way to prove it.

Someone please assuage my fears...

EDIT: To be perfectly clear, I don't mean there will be massive fraud that will keep both houses with the GOP. I'm talking just enough to tip the key senate states (Missouri, Virginia, etc.) to their side.

Why is it no one ever gives Democrats credit for being smart enough to sabotage a voting machine? Surely some of Daley's old henchmen could find a way...

Exit polls are notoriously inaccurate, no matter the election. The people who tend to answer exit polls are those with the most to loose/gain in an election, usually the underdogs i.e. Democrat voters.

On this side of The Pond, not an Election Night broadcast goes by without a mention for how wrong the exit polls were in the 1992 election, predicting a clear Labour victory, yet resulting in a Conservative government. Labour voters ran out to tell pollsters that they had just voted, while Tory voters voted, kept schtum, and got their party into office.

If Dems do not manage to upset the balance in the 'little' elections, they actually probably have a better chance of taking the next 'big' elections with a clean sweep....

It depends on whether or not the Republicans have learned their lesson about acting like Democrats. As much as it would hurt, a couple years with Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid on TV every night would probably do us some good.

Why the hell are you using these dodgy voting machines?

I know Americans have a reputation for stupidity, but I can't accept that they don't know how to put numbers in boxes on a ballot paper. :confused:

Why is it no one ever gives Democrats credit for being smart enough to sabotage a voting machine? Surely some of Daley's old henchmen could find a way...
Dems are plenty smart -- they just have principles. For instance, the Republicans have an efficient system of vote challengers, whereby "poll-watchers" invalidate votes (in mostly Democratic areas) on minor technicalities. Legal, but low. The Democrats have no such system, which as one blogger said is "morally laudable but electorally suicide".

Typical Liberal rubbish.......just because they have a bad track record for actually winning.

Now if the Democrats lose, they cry "cheaters"....whatever you say.

The Republicans will win because their basic untold moto is,

Freedom is slavery, War is Peace, and Ignorance is Strength.

If you think about it, thats what they mean, and people are going along with it.

I know Americans have a reputation for stupidity, but I can’t accept that they don’t know how to put numbers in boxes on a ballot paper. :confused:
I’ve always thought this. What’s wrong with showing ID to prove who you are, then, on a wee slip of paper, putting an X in a box next to the name of your candidate-of-choice?

The GOP goes for issues that get votes. Fervently patriotic Americans want to ban flag burning, and the gay-haters want to ban gay marriage. Also, too many people believe that we're doing well in Iraq and that we are right no matter what happens. That's why the GOP will win. That and the Dems are colossally incompetent.

One would think that voters would want to have people in office who will try to fix things. Important things like education, health care, poverty, etc. You know, things that actually MATTER. But hey, who cares if some schools can't afford to buy new textbooks when there are people out there burning flags and taking it up the ass! The GOP seems to know what is REALLY important in America!

But the Dems are incompetent, very true. So the Republicans can get away with this crap.

Typical Liberal rubbish.......just because they have a bad track record for actually winning.

Now if the Democrats lose, they cry "cheaters"....whatever you say.

Typical neocon rubbish.

well if lower taxes and n pelosi not being coronated is bad - bad rules

Typical neocon rubbish.

Question for you: Would a "neocon" vote for a democrat? I'm not voting along party lines, it is irresponsible and ridiculous. I will be voting for Crist for Florida's governor and at the same time I'll be voting for Nelson for the Senate. So how do you figure I'm a neocon? I simply stated a fact earlier. If speaking the truth makes me a "neocon" then yes I am a "neocon".

One would think that voters would want to have people in office who will try to fix things. Important things like education, health care, poverty, etc. You know, things that actually MATTER. But hey, who cares if some schools can't afford to buy new textbooks when there are people out there burning flags and taking it up the ass! The GOP seems to know what is REALLY important in America!

No kidding. Our politicians are very good at being politicians but no good at solving issues. In fact, some would argue that they want to perpetuate issues so they can continue to make political solutions that appear to solve the problem but don't really do a whole lot.

But the Dems are incompetent, very true. So the Republicans can get away with this crap.

The Dems should have had 2000 and Bush should have been history. But they just had to lose Tennessee, and they just had to run Lieberman as the VP. Not quite sure why Gore picked him.

The Dems had a shot at redemption in 2004. But they picked that wooden man John Kerry, who has less personality than Al Gore...or a used tissue, even.

The GOP is also very opportunistic. I happen to think Gore probably won 2000 (at least if you counted the ballots in a different, equally reasonable manner) but the rest of the elections lost were their own fault. Did the Dems stand up and say, "Invading Iraq is a really bad idea!"? No. Did they say, "We have seen the error of the Iraq war, and you people are still charging head-on at it!"? Hell no. Are they saying now, "There's a record deficit and Marines dying in Iraq, and all you people can think about is buring the flag and cutting taxes for your rich oil buddies!"? No, but damnit, they ought to be. It's high time the Democrats started attacking for real.

Why the hell are you using these dodgy voting machines?

I know Americans have a reputation for stupidity, but I can't accept that they don't know how to put numbers in boxes on a ballot paper. :confused:
considering that was the problem with the 2000 elections... :rolleyes:

I just can't shake the feeling that the Democrats will do poorly tomorrow, at least in the states where it'll count. This is mainly due to the new electronic voting machines, which 8 out of every 10 voters will be using. I have heard nothing but bad things (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=502003) about Diebold and their ilk: gaping security holes, vote-stealing viruses, GOP ties, money-laundering, thousands of missing memory cards, minor elections botched, etc., etc., etc. Considering that the key states for a Democratic Senate victory are teetering on razor-thin margins, it seems like even isolated instances of tampering could keep the Senate under Republican control. Of course, since Diebold machines are cleverly designed to make sabotage undetectable, there would be no way to prove it.

Someone please assuage my fears...

EDIT: To be perfectly clear, I don't mean there will be massive fraud that will keep both houses with the GOP. I'm talking just enough to tip the key senate states (Missouri, Virginia, etc.) to their side.

Yeah,.. all is lost,.. your extreme paranoia is fully justified.

It really IS nice to be able to blame the democrats utterly lame-assed capabilities to actually do well in the political world (lately) on nifty conspiracy theories and whatnot,.. isn't it..!?

And of course,... the democrats NEVER do anything untoward to manipulate elections (unqualified people voting, etc..),.. heck no.

It's just a "poor little abused democrats" world,.. isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Bodacious
Typical Liberal rubbish.......just because they have a bad track record for actually winning.

Now if the Democrats lose, they cry "cheaters"....whatever you say.

Typical neocon rubbish.

But they always do cry "cheater", just like the spoiled little kids they are.

I do like watching them cry like little french school girls, though.

Perhaps we should make post-election day "Pull a Dem's PigTails" Day..!


They are cute in those little uniforms, though, so if you wanna "score", don't be TOO mean..!

But they always do cry "cheater", just like the spoiled little kids they are.

I do like watching them cry like little french school girls, though.

Perhaps we should make post-election day "Pull a Dem's PigTails" Day..!


They are cute in those little uniforms, though, so if you wanna "score", don't be TOO mean..!

Okay, this metaphor has gone way too far.

But they always do cry "cheater", just like the spoiled little kids they are.

I do like watching them cry like little french school girls, though.

Perhaps we should make post-election day "Pull a Dem's PigTails" Day..!


They are cute in those little uniforms, though, so if you wanna "score", don't be TOO mean..!
Hey, all I know is that we're presenting facts and evidence, and all you have is name-calling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Govneauvia
But they always do cry "cheater", just like the spoiled little kids they are.

I do like watching them cry like little french school girls, though.

Perhaps we should make post-election day "Pull a Dem's PigTails" Day..!


They are cute in those little uniforms, though, so if you wanna "score", don't be TOO mean..!

Hey, all I know is that we're presenting facts and evidence, and all you have is name-calling.

Keep presenting those "facts", dude,.. or dudette...!

They're SO persuasive (to the paranoid psychotics).

And I'm not calling names,.. they do cry "cheater", they do do so like little kids, they do cry like little french school girls (because we ALL cry pretty much the same),.. and some of them ARE cute in their little slutty-kitten uniforms.

So what's your point?

Hey, Rhaomi, it seems your fears have been confirmed. Not that it is much of a surprise of course.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15590530/

Hey, Rhaomi, it seems your fears have been confirmed. Not that it is much of a surprise of course.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15590530/

And in Colorado, the Democrats are in court to get the voting hours extended two hours to 9:00 PM Mountain because of huge delays in people voting arond Denver. Apparently the voting machines are set up to use the same server(s) used by the City and County of Denver offices, so when the workers came in to work this morning at about 8:00 AM, the voting machines started crashing. The Other Party is in court saying that's not needed because if you get in line before 7:00 PM, you get to vote (which is true, of course). I voted early and maybe next year I'll do an absentee ballot and revert back to pencil and paper.

Question for you: Would a "neocon" vote for a democrat? I'm not voting along party lines, it is irresponsible and ridiculous.

Agreed.

I will be voting for Crist for Florida's governor and at the same time I'll be voting for Nelson for the Senate. So how do you figure I'm a neocon?

Obviously, I didn't know for certain whether you are a neocon, or indeed a Republican. However, since you used "liberal" as an insult, I returned the favor.


I simply stated a fact earlier. If speaking the truth makes me a "neocon" then yes I am a "neocon".

So, Democrats "whine" when they lose? Well, we'd never see a GOP candidate do that, would we? Gore whined. That doesn't mean every Democrat does.

BTW, your statement wasn't "truth"; it was opinion. You are free to have any opinion you want, as am I. Don't try to pass it off as fact.

So, basically, if the Republicans win tomorrow, it is because they cheated. But if the Democrats win, its because they are the better party?

Am I the only one who thinks that idea is just fucking stupid?

Here's a thought for you; if the Republicans do happen to win, it really means that all these damned polls we see are just as worthless as they appear, and enough people still prefer the Republicans that are running over their Democrat opponents.

No, that couldn't be it, could it? That would be, oh the horror, REALITY! But no, that couldn't happen, because everyone knows that Republicans are evil personified and the Democatic Party full of saints who will lead us all to Utopia.

:rolleyes:

Here's a news flash for you, if the Democratic Party takes control, we will have another six years of massive spending on various pork projects, corruption in the House and Senate, and political leaders who are only in it for their own financial and political gain. Otherwise known as; Status Quo.

Reality sucks, don't it?


Well said. If Republicans win, its because of those terrible "NASCAR dads".

If Dems win, its because the country was sick of the republicans and President Bush.

They'll need a mantra to chant if Republicans win.

I love how it's pre-decided that if the statist GOP stays in power, they've "cheated" their way to another win.

:rolleyes:

I just don't have any faith in Americans any more.
Come on, they're surely no worse than they ever were.

It depends on whether or not the Republicans have learned their lesson about acting like Democrats. As much as it would hurt, a couple years with Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid on TV every night would probably do us some good.
Do who some good?

I tend to lie to the exit poll people, is that a problem?
I guess it would be if there were a whole bunch of people doing that, but I would imagine that most tell the truth?

I guess it would be if there were a whole bunch of people doing that, but I would imagine that most tell the truth?

but one can't really say. I too tend to lie on exit polls... if the person asking is nice and friendly, I will outragiously lie (I voted for the Bill and Opus ticket) or if they are not nice and friendly, name a candidate whom I didn't vote for.

I wouldn't rule it out.

I wouldn't rule it out.

looks like the Dems are picking up... but it is rather early to tell.

Edit: wow... look at the blue states! :D

I love how it's pre-decided that if the statist GOP stays in power, they've "cheated" their way to another win.

:rolleyes:

Well, they'd really have to cheat at this point.

I wouldn't rule it out.

you could say that again:p