NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, at this juncture, everybody has probably heard the big news -- Saddam Hussein has been sentenced to death by hanging for his crimes against the Iraqi people.

You can debate about the validity of the trial and sentence all you want. I just have one question for ya'll: Do you think the verdict was politically motivated? That it was designed to be a "November surprise" in favor of the Republicans?

It's not that far-fetched, if you think about it. Observers in Iraq, and even the Iraqi people themselves, have described the trial as a farce and as an "American puppet theater". To everyone paying attention, it is clear that the course of the trial is being controlled by US forces there.

In light of this, and the fact that the verdict was postponed so that it was read just two days before the midterm elections, do you think this was deliberately timed? History has shown us that salient events in Iraq (capture of Saddam, elections, death of Zarqawi, etc.) often give popularity bumps to the GOP, even if they are largely symbolic. Do you think this death sentence will be enough to distract the electorate from the numerous problems plaguing the Republicans in Iraq and at home?

(Link (http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?pid=130487) to a good write-up in The Nation)

Very doubtful.

Despite what paranoid conspiracy theorists may say, it most definitely was not.

Doubtful, the trials been wrapping up for quite some time.

So far the only November surprises that favor the R's have come from Democrats own mouths.

Despite what paranoid conspiracy theorists may say, it most definitely was not.

Everything. is a conspiracy.

Probably. It reminds people of the "mission to liberate Iraq from Hussein". Otherwise it's an amazing coincidence. Like the release of the Osama video just before the 2004 election.

It's hard to believe that Iraqis even care. :p

I certainly think so.

I'll be interested to see if it backfires if the next couple of days already see some retaliatory violence in Iraq. Not that anyone wishes for that. :/

Probably. It reminds people of the "mission to liberate Iraq from Hussein". Otherwise it's an amazing coincidence. Like the release of the Osama video just before the 2004 election.

The bin Laden video was released by bin Laden in order to influence the election to go towards the more aggressive candidate, the one more likely to alienate the muslim world. He did it to motivate the "fuck you sand ******" vote.

I doubt it, given the fact that the outcome of the trial was predicted several months ago. This is no surprise to anyone---not even those Iraqis supporting Hussein (to them least of all.)

The fact that many Americans are concerned about a political aspect to this suggests that the credibility of the Neo-Cons is in serious question. It's not going to make those supporting the Neo-Con agenda change their position, and it clearly will not have an impact on those opposed to the Bush Administration. And the self-described "independents" won't be moved in any significant way by the promise of Hussein's execution-----they didn't like or support him in the first place.

This isn't a real issue in the American elections.

no, the bush movement would never exert any pressure on things of this nature to time them for political benefit. that's just crazy talk. ok, sure, we always seem to have 'confirmed' reports that terrorists are going to kill us all whenever they need a boost in the polls or want to pass some particularly evil legislation, which have yet to materialize. but we can't use reason and evidence in these matters - once we go down that path we'll have to accept climate change and evolution and other works of the devil.

A quick clarification: I'm not suggesting that the Iraqis want to influence our elections -- in fact, I doubt most of them know we're having elections now. I'm asking this in context of what people involved in the Hussein trials have said: that the American leadership is the driving force behind the trial, and that the trial itself is largely theater for us back at home.

From the article cited in the OP:

"As for Saddam's trial itself, I've spoken with dozens of lawyers and judges in Iraq and they have a uniformly very negative opinion of this special tribunal. Everybody -- pretty consistently across the board, and despite the fact that there's no love lost for Saddam himself--has a high level of irritation about the tribunal. Judges have said to me, ‘I wouldn't serve on that. I wouldn't have anything to do with it. It's a blot on our country.' Their main point of criticism is its lack of independence. There is a team of American lawyers working as special legal advisors out of the US embassy, who drive the whole thing. They have been involved in preparing the case and overseeing it from the beginning. The trial, which is shown on TV, has mild entertainment value for Iraqis, but they refer to it regularly as an American puppet theater."

Also, when I ask if the trial was politically motivated, I'm not talking about the outcome so much as the timing. It was pretty much guaranteed from the beginning that he would be executed -- but the fact that the sentence was rendered just two days before our elections (indeed, deliberately postponed to achieve this) strikes me as highly suspect.

The bin Laden video was released by bin Laden in order to influence the election to go towards the more aggressive candidate, the one more likely to alienate the muslim world. He did it to motivate the "fuck you sand ******" vote.
By all evidence, Bin Laden is much safer with Republicans in power. After all, Bush doesn't even think about Bin Laden anymore:

September 17, 2001

But we're going to smoke them out.

The focus right now is on Osama bin Laden, no question about it. He's the prime suspect

Q Are you saying you want him dead or alive, sir? Can I interpret --

: I just remember, all I'm doing is remembering when I was a kid I remember that they used to put out there in the old west, a wanted poster. It said: "Wanted, Dead or Alive." All I want and America wants him brought to justice. That's what we want.

March 13, 2002

Q Mr. President, in your speeches now you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden. Why is that? Also, can you tell the American people if you have any more information, if you know if he is dead or alive? Final part -- deep in your heart, don't you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won't really eliminate the threat of --

: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he's alive at all. Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is -- really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.

Q But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?

: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.

If it was timed, I really doubt it would have much of an effect.

I think the only true November Surprise would be the Republicans retaining the house. That'd be a hell of a surprise. :p

Looking at the poll, I think some people need to remove their tin foil hats.

Everything. is a conspiracy.

"The 9/11 conspiracy... is a government conspiracy."

Looking at the poll, I think some people need to remove their tin foil hats.

*point to tin foil hat* What, this? I don't wear this out of fear that they'll probe my mind, I wear it to protect the mind probers from seeing what's in it. :)

Looking at the poll, I think some people need to remove their tin foil hats.
am not sure what you mean by this. a group at MIT has recently shown (http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/) tin foil hats amplify waves in the frequency used by the US government. but some people still believe the opposite, despite scientific evidence otherwise. so which people need to remove their tin foil hats?

If the Iraqi people dislike the US so much, and wish we weren't there, and would just get out of the quagmire, and go home and leave them alone... why on earth would they cooperate to release verdict information that would potentially help the Republicans win the elections, and most likely keep us there, and continue oppressing them and occupying their country?

If the Iraqi people dislike the US so much, and wish we weren't there, and would just get out of the quagmire, and go home and leave them alone... why on earth would they cooperate to release verdict information that would potentially help the Republicans win the elections, and most likely keep us there, and continue oppressing them and occupying their country?
Well, it's not exactly the Iraqis who are running that particular show. See Rhaomis OP (incl. his link) and his quote from the linked article on the previous page: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11905563&postcount=12.

Nobody is saying the Iraqis decided to make the Republicans an election gift.

I think there is little doubt it was timed.