NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm watching CNN right now, and Saddam Hussein has been found guilty and sentenced to death, by hanging.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/05/dujail.saddam/index.html

Well, that was to be expected, wasn't it?

And he probably deserves it too, although I'm against the death penalty on principle.

Nonetheless, it's not going to really change anything. Many Iraqis will be happy for a few days and then go back to trying to survive in what's become of this country of theirs.

by hanging? I thought they got rid of that years ago - something about it being sick and barbaric...

Well, that was to be expected, wasn't it?

And he probably deserves it too, although I'm against the death penalty on principle.

Nonetheless, it's not going to really change anything. Many Iraqis will be happy for a few days and then go back to trying to survive in what's become of this country of theirs.

True, but I wonder if this will cause an increase in violence.

by hanging? I thought they got rid of that years ago - something about it being sick and barbaric...

We did. However, he is being tried in Iraqi court, which I'm assuming hasn't done so.

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/hanging.gif

We did. However, he is being tried in Iraqi court, which I'm assuming hasn't done so.

oh. I suppose it beats stoning him to death or something. urg. I hate the death penalty but I'm not under the illusion he has a snowball's chance in hell of avoiding it. it wouldn't have kept up a sham of liberation had we not handed him over to the puppet government, I suppose.

by hanging? I thought they got rid of that years ago - something about it being sick and barbaric...

Hanging is the traditional way of executing war criminals. Nuremberg comes to mind.

I'm curious as to weather Saddam has the right to appeal.

I'm curious as to weather Saddam has the right to appeal.

I do believe he does.

Hanging is the traditional way of executing war criminals. Nuremberg comes to mind.

it makes displaying the justification easier, I guess.

I've heard the appeal process could take over a year.

I'm curious as to weather Saddam has the right to appeal.

Appeal is automatic for the death penalty in Iraq's new criminal justice system. *nod*

Iv'e heard the appeal process could take over a year.

Yep, and apparently most of his underlings will be "dealt with" before he is.

I'm curious as to weather Saddam has the right to appeal.

The appeal is automatic; the only question I have is if the process will take as long as it does in the US. It can often take 20 years over here.

I have heard that once the appeals process is exhausted, the sentence is to be carried out within 30 days.

Um... stupid question, maybe... but I can't see where it says he was sentenced to death in the article.
Hussein could be sentenced to death by hanging

Um... stupid question, maybe... but I can't see where it says he was sentenced to death in the article.

I noticed that too, but isn't it a bit of a foregone conclusion?

Um... stupid question, maybe... but I can't see where it says he was sentenced to death in the article.

The link's outdated. It's all over the news.

Ahh...and it's already started with the talking heads...the verdict was 'delayed two weeks' to coincide with the US elections....

Any thoughts on that ???

by hanging? I thought they got rid of that years ago - something about it being sick and barbaric...

Executed (no pun intended) properly, hanging actually brings an almost instant end to the condemed person. It is meant to break the neck. However, in most instances the hanging is performed incorrectly, and the condemned is left to a slow, and incredibly painful, strangling death. That is, in most cases where correct preparations have not been made in advance, as they will have been in this case.

~ Romandeos.

Is anybody happy about this? I don't think anybody has stated if they support this or not.

I would much rather him rot in jail for the rest of his life, but that's just me.

Um... stupid question, maybe... but I can't see where it says he was sentenced to death in the article.

"Former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has been convicted of crimes against humanity by a Baghdad court and sentenced to death by hanging.

He was found guilty over his role in the killing of 148 people in the mainly Shia town of Dujail in 1982."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6117910.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/

Is anybody happy about this? I don't think anybody has stated if they support this or not.

a sick twisted child is going to be killed by other children pretending justice exists. there's nothing to be happy about, here.

Out- out are the lights- out all!
And, over each quivering form,
The curtain, a funeral pall,
Comes down with the rush of a storm,
While the angels, all pallid and wan,
Uprising, unveiling, affirm
That the play is the tragedy, "Man,"
And its hero the Conqueror Worm.

Newer CNN link (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/05/dujail.saddam/index.html)

Hey everyone, turn it to CNN. If you get the international version, some white dude comes on occasionally, and his nose is really borked. He's a reporter, methinks.

Executed (no pun intended) properly, hanging actually brings an almost instant end to the condemed person. It is meant to break the neck. However, in most instances the hanging is performed incorrectly, and the condemned is left to a slow and incredibly painful strangling death.

~ Romandeos.

Maybe just to make his death more entertaining, they can hang him with a long bungee cord from a tall bridge. That'd be fun. :)

Maybe just to make his death more entertaining, they can hang him with a long bungee cord from a tall bridge. That'd be fun. :)

hanging has always been meant as a form of sadistic entertainment. for most of history they did everything but sell tickets...

hanging has always been meant as a form of sadistic entertainment. for most of history they did everything but sell tickets...

I do so hope they televise it.

Nice for them to decide JUST BEFORE the election.

Borked nose guy is on...

I do so hope they televise it.

And get sued by ant-violence groups? Doubt it.

hanging has always been meant as a form of sadistic entertainment. for most of history they did everything but sell tickets...

I think hangings stimulate the same pleasure centers in the brain that piñatas do *nod*

I don't know why, but the thought of hanging Saddam makes me really uncomfortable. I know he did really bad things in the past, but this seems just too personal somehow. I don't see why they can't just lock him up in a British or American prison somewhere. (admittedly you do lose the veneer of it being the Iraqi people's justice then, but it's got to be better than this).

Nice for them to decide JUST BEFORE the election.

What does that have to do with anything? Besides give Democrats another reason to cry about republican tactics?

I don't know why, but the thought of hanging Saddam makes me really uncomfortable. I know he did really bad things in the past, but this seems just too personal somehow. I don't see why they can't just lock him up in a British or American prison somewhere. (admittedly you do lose the veneer of it being the Iraqi people's justice then, but it's got to be better than this).

it's that tickling little recognition that he's a living being about to be destroyed, and that everyone rejoicing in it might as well be rejoicing in their own death. or maybe not.

It is up to the Iraqi government, now stop defending him.

Yes Iraqi Government right. And I was more concerned about the image it sends and the moral ground it leaves the UK/ US in than Saddam's well being. For someone like him, having been in power for so long a short sharp drop would probably preferable than 10-20 years in prison brooding over his downfall.

Did he care about the countless people he killed? NO!

that's beside the point. justice is blind - and I mean that in a negative way.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?

Is anybody happy about this? I don't think anybody has stated if they support this or not.

Hell, just this (http://www.american.edu/ted/ice/kuwait.htm) is worth an execution!

Intentionally setting all those oil fields on fire.
Intentionally dumping 11 million barrels of oil into the Gulf (2 times the world record for oil spills. 20 times larger than Exxon Valdez) devestating all that marine wildlife!

STRING HIM UP!!!

He killed countless muslims mostly, does he deserve their respect? Just a question.

It's nothing to do with what Saddam deserves. Of course Saddam deserves hanging if you want to give it to him, but that's not really the issue.

The big problem is that you can't distinguish the justice for the Iraqi people element from the desperate attempt to grab one remaining justification for the war. It cheapens the whole thing, and I think it would be a lot more sensible to opt for the less controversial life imprisonment.

that's beside the point. justice is blind - and I mean that in a negative way.



Are you a christian?

Hell, just this (http://www.american.edu/ted/ice/kuwait.htm) is worth an execution!

Intentionally setting all those oil fields on fire.
Intentionally dumping 11 million barrels of oil into the Gulf (2 times the world record for oil spills. 20 times larger than Exxon Valdez) devestating all that marine wildlife!

STRING HIM UP!!!

Don't forget about his draining of the marshes....

But you can't take away the Iraqi people chance at justice just to spite the war effort. That would be wrong.

Well I don't think exile and life imprisonment does take away their justice. For someone like Saddam I don't think it's the easy option at all.

What a loss. He could have been a spectacular ally for the West in the ME.

Well I don't think exile and life imprisonment does take away their justice. For someone like Saddam I don't think it's the easy option at all.

Let me qualify this as stating that I'm not for the death penalty. Intelluctually, I'm never for it. However, on a gut level, I can make exceptions for guys like this.

I don't like the idea of Saddam being sent to exile anywhere. Let him rot in an Iraqi prison, if that the route you want to go.

Of course, if you're going to do that, I vote that you stick him in the general population. Things have a tendencey to work themselves out in there....Jeffrey Dahmer comes to mind....

Are you a christian?

I'm not sure. depends how you define the term. I happen to be extremely familiar with the christian scriptures, and with christian mystics like the quakers, franciscans, the pacifist strains of the eastern orthodox church, tolstoy, and khalil gibran. I believe the sermon on the mount is one of the greatest things ever spoken, written, or thought - and that it should be taken literally. however I'm also aware that the majority of the sermon on the mount is a borrowing from earlier jewish wisdom literature, and that nobody in the 1st century wrote it all, as we have near exact copies of it that are about 200 years older than christ.

I also tend to quote from the bhagavad gita as well. I don't consider any book inspired by god.

you could call me one of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolstoyan), one of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism), a believer in this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahimsa), or any number of things, really (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism#Syncretism_in_Caribbean_religions_and_cultures). I'm a christian in the same sense that someone who admires the theories of marx is a marxist. my actual religion is this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candomble), which I would be suprised if you've ever heard of. my ethics are distinct from my religion, as my religion has never had a recognized central authority on much anything, and tends to take a very egalitarian stance with regard to the ethical beliefs of individual believers. "each priest/ess is the head of his/her own house" - there are no moral absolutes for the religion as a whole - though for me, personally, ahimsa is a moral absolute. which, (to tie this back into the origional post) is why I think rejoicing in the execution of anyone is abhorant - or at very least stupid, considering there isn't a one of us who will be any less dead in a relatively short ammount of time. considering the total lack of guilt the majority of you feel for killing other living things, animals and such, I can hardly consider sadaam's moral deficiencies as justification for his death. if anyone who dehumanised others or was complacent in death were deserving of death themselves, all of us would be convicted. death comes on its own easily enough - no need to rush it. I garentee he'll find is way back to the dust - and some of us could possibly beat him to it. all will die - and that is the only justice there is. holding court and executing the man is a farce. nature will meet out the harshest punishment there is to anyone and everyone without our help.

How can anyone support state sanctioned murder? Isn't that what Saddam Hussein is being charged with? Murdering people with his state sanctioned power. It all sounds somewhat hippocritical. I don't deny that he may "deserve" to die, but I just can't see making a martyr out of this man will help the situation in the middle east.

How can anyone support state sanctioned murder? Isn't that what Saddam Hussein is being charged with? Murdering people with his state sanctioned power. It all sounds somewhat hippocritical. I don't deny that he may "deserve" to die, but I just can't see making a martyr out of this man will help the situation in the middle east.

To be a Martyr, you need followers. No one likes Saddam anymore. Everyone pretty much hates him.

How can anyone support state sanctioned murder? Isn't that what Saddam Hussein is being charged with? Murdering people with his state sanctioned power. It all sounds somewhat hippocritical. I don't deny that he may "deserve" to die, but I just can't see making a martyr out of this man will help the situation in the middle east.

Agree or disagree with the death penalty, I believe that one key element missing from your argument against state-sponsored murder is 'due process'.

To be a Martyr, you need followers. No one likes Saddam anymore. Everyone pretty much hates him.

Actually, he does have some supporters. And there will be others who will use his death for some sort of personal gains.

Actually, he does have some supporters. And there will be others who will use his death for some sort of personal gains.

Well, very few. And those people have no power at the moment.

Well, very few. And those people have no power at the moment.

Yes, however as I said, I'm sure there will be some who will try to use this to justify any number of things.

And I know it's been said before, but isn't it rather odd that this happens two days before midterm elections.

I don't deny that he may "deserve" to die, but I just can't see making a martyr out of this man will help the situation in the middle east.

One more martyr in the Middle East is like one more beer in Wisconsin.

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/hanging.gif
Boo!:(

Yes, however as I said, I'm sure there will be some who will try to use this to justify any number of things.

And I know it's been said before, but isn't it rather odd that this happens two days before midterm elections.

If they really wanted to pull something they would have had the court stay up past their bedtime to broadcast it in primetime.

How can anyone support state sanctioned murder? Isn't that what Saddam Hussein is being charged with? Murdering people with his state sanctioned power. It all sounds somewhat hippocritical. I don't deny that he may "deserve" to die, but I just can't see making a martyr out of this man will help the situation in the middle east.

I can support sanctioned murder. Though I have to admit, not for the reasons most other people do. I consider the death penalty to be more humane than life in prison wihout parole. I'm a bit weird that way. *nod*

I believe that one key element missing from your argument against state-sponsored murder is 'due process'.

Point taken, but isn't it possible that executing Hussein could encouraged more aggression against westerners. Terrorists would be more inclined to violently if they see us doing it.

I aren't saying that a terrorist killing a hostage in cold blood is comparable to the Hussein trial, but in a their eyes it may add more legitimacy to their actions.

IMHO I don't believe that capital punishment is ever right, but the country is still involved in a war and any irreversable punishments should probably be reserved for when things have cooled down a little. (knowing the middle east, i doubt that will ever happen)

Saddam Hussein's trial will probably be seen fair as the Nuremberg Trials in another 40 years.

Boo!:(

Don't blame me! I suggested:

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/arsespank.gif
http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/nuts.gif
http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/whips.gif

and/or

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/bates.gif

But I was vetoed. :(

If they really wanted to pull something they would have had the court stay up past their bedtime to broadcast it in primetime.

It'll be all over the news tommorrow, anyway. Really, every tv spot will have it running for 24 hours. I'm surprised it came out today instead of on Monday, though.

:(


Damn, I don't want him to die. Damn it.

He is my birthday buddy!

:fluffle: for saddam!

He should have gotten a telling off, just like Italy got for invading Abisiniya(SP)(Ethiopia) back in 1935...

Ahh...and it's already started with the talking heads...the verdict was 'delayed two weeks' to coincide with the US elections....

Any thoughts on that ???
No surprise there.

it's that tickling little recognition that he's a living being about to be destroyed, and that everyone rejoicing in it might as well be rejoicing in their own death. or maybe not.
Or maybe it is.

For someone like Saddam I don't think it's the easy option at all.

you know what happens in prison

its probably better than him gonig to exile and living in france getting rich for the rest of his live like a lot of other ex-dictators

I can support sanctioned murder. Though I have to admit, not for the reasons most other people do. I consider the death penalty to be more humane than life in prison wihout parole. I'm a bit weird that way. *nod*

Well said for you 15000th post (Grats!!!)

I would support him being in a 23 an hour a day lock-up in a secure prision, but I don't think they have that in Iraq.

Maybe just to make his death more entertaining, they can hang him with a long bungee cord from a tall bridge. That'd be fun. :)
Well he was Reagan's personal yo-yo.....[/sick humour] :eek:

Well he was Reagan's personal yo-yo.....[/sick humour] :eek:

:p

and another one bites the dust.

Saddam's sentence is going to be held out a lot quicker than here in the USA.
It isn't going to last a decade, maybe we need to take a lesson from the Iraqi's to expedite the sentences. I don't think we should wait 1-2 decades to follow through.

Iraqi's Justice says it's going to happen much quicker than the USA. I heard they have 10 days to appeal, go through that process and after it exhausts he'll be executed by hanging within 30 days.

Tried by Iraqi's, sentenced by Iraqi's, will be executed by Iraqi's, all the while the Iraqi's are celebrating throughout their country.

Go Iraqi's!

I can see him being rescued just as he's about to be hanged, Robin Hood-style by Al-Sadr's men...

No chance it'll stand in a fair trial, also. He was the leader of the country - and hence immune to this kind of thing in the same way that Bush, Blair and co. are.

Agree or disagree with the death penalty, I believe that one key element missing from your argument against state-sponsored murder is 'due process'.

Actually, given that the evidence used against Saddam in the trial included documentation of the arrest decree, detention, interrogation, convictions, and executions of many of the people involved - it is apparent that due process (as much as it existed in Iraq) WAS followed in the round-up after the assassination attempt on Saddam's life.

Now then, if you want to argue (with merit - I grant you) that executing a bunch of people after they confessed during torture using secret military courts fails the generally accepted benchmark for due process, then I would tend to agree with you.


And then I might just mention a couple of other words: Guantanamo, and the Military Commissions Act.

Not to claim that the US has any intention of doing anything like what Saddam did in this specific case.

Just pointing out that GW has made it perfectly legal for him to do so.

Good riddance and I hope he gets the same kind of burial he gives to his victims.

Sorry if its already been posted.

But, lets hope the bastard burns.

Hmm... Burning and Hanging?

What a curious mental image.

Good riddance and I hope he gets the same kind of burial he gives to his victims.

That's not very nice.

Then again, neither was he.

Still, we got to have respect for the soon to be dead...

so would you prefer burning then hanging, or hanging then burning? It seems 1 death would suffice, but hey why not go all out....

is sick and no better an action for a state or official body to take than any of Mr Saddam's depravities. Are we to expect the widescale hanging of former CIA operatives now or are we making a special case for former heads of state?

Bah. How will this improve the world? Can anybody out there make a convincing case that the world is a better or safer place now that Mr Saddam is no longer holding the reins of power in Iraq? I'd love to hear that argument.

May we now hang Mr Bush for his war crimes? Or indeed Mr Blair for that matter? Consider for a moment not only the civilians but the huge numbers of Iraqi soldiers who were massacred in their tens of thousands in a futile attempt to defend their nation, however imperfectly it was ruled.

The main thing hanging here is justice, and that by a thread.

Tried by Iraqi's, sentenced by Iraqi's, will be executed by Iraqi's, all the while the Iraqi's are celebrating throughout their country.

Go Iraqi's!

Yeah... save the fact the trial is "american sponsored" ie a puppet of the american government.... and somehow those thousands of protestors dont look like they're celebrating...

Not that the trial is any fairer than the moscow trials... the worst part is no-one is doing anything about it! Witnesses are being paid, half the time they would have been too young to remember anything anyway, defence witnesses are being beaten up and arrested, defence lawyers are being killed, other judges have walked out because of "government interference" and a host of other injustices :mad:

That's great to hear they finally sorted that out. Only his appeal would be pointless, as it wouldn't change a thing for him.

I think we kid ourselves in the notion that the world will be a better place when Saddam is killed, if anything, I think killing him makes him more of a martyr than he deserves to be. I think the worst possible punishment for him would be rotting away in a jail cell as people try to forget him. Not killing him and fueling the fire of his supporters in the mid-east.

Many live deserve to die and many that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be so eager to hand out death in judgement for even the very wise cannot see all ends.

hanging? how barbaric.

Saddam Hussein is clearly an evil man guily of many crimes against humanity. He deserves to be punished.

However, his trial was unfair and biased. He did not receive a fair trial. His sentence of death is inhumane. How can western countries expect to set an example; how can we call our societies democratic, fair and humane, if we stand by and make unreserved cries of support for this result in the trial.

Terrorists and undemocratic governments can now simply point to this trial and its sentence when we call on them to further democracy and human rights next time.

Isn't it a bit odd that he was tried by Iraqis. I mean if he is charged with crimes against the Iraqi people, shouldn't someone, say someone impartial trial him. In Iraq you are either a supporter of him or you hate his guts, no middle ground. Think about the jury system we have here. People are brought in that have no clue who the victim is nor do they know the guilty party. I just think he should have been sent to the Hague.

Think about it. We didn't hand Slobodan Milosevic to the Bosnians, Croats, and Kosovoians to be tried. We also didn't hand those Nazi bastards to their victims either, all in the name of fairness. And no one can tell me that they found impartial people to be in Saddam's trial.

Just imagine how hilarious it would be if he escaped.

hanging? how barbaric.

It's not like his practices were particularly civilized either. And hanging doesn't leave him a martyr like a firing squad would.

It's not like his practices were particularly civilized either. And hanging doesn't leave him a martyr like a firing squad would.

How would shooting him make him more of a martyr than hanging him?

This is a sad day for Iraq, the Iraqi people and justice.

This was not a fair trial, this was not a fair verdict and the 'crimes' he has been committed for are silly. Really, what response would you expect if you tried to ASSASINATE the President?

I am not saying the man was perfect of course, but really - the whole thing is just pathetic.

He must not receive this verdict! All must be done to destroy it!

Just imagine how hilarious it would be if he escaped.

I look forward to this occurring. Loyalist elements of the Police and army must rescue the President!

hanging? how barbaric.

I don't know, if they hang him properly then it's a good deal quicker and less painful than supposedly less 'barbaric' methods brought in to replace hanging. But if they go for what normally passes for hanging in the middle east, involving a stadium and picking people up by their necks using cranes, then you probably have a point.

How would shooting him make him more of a martyr than hanging him?

In muslim countries, i think, hanging is a shameful way of dieing compared to a firing squad

I look forward to this occurring. Loyalist elements of the Police and army must rescue the President!

Actually i could seriously see some kind of rescue attempt if his appeals fail

May we now hang Mr Bush for his war crimes?

Why not, the irony would be tangible. A Texan president being sentenced to hang.

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For those about to protest hanging as a barbaric and evil way to kill people, I should point out that it is most likely, when done correctly, one of the least painful methods of execution. Some argue for lethal injection, but its difficult to prove whether or not that is painful.
A proper hanging snaps your neck instantly and kills you instantly or in the few seconds afterwards.

Not an arguement for/against hanging Saddaam, or for or against exeuction, merely stating the facts as I know them.

Eh, he's definitely not worthy of a noble piece of rope. Someone ought to shove him off of a cliff or something.

is sick and no better an action for a state or official body to take than any of Mr Saddam's depravities. Are we to expect the widescale hanging of former CIA operatives now or are we making a special case for former heads of state?


Are you saying that hanging Saddam is an action comparable to killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people?

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I'll take it!
Hello US, I have something you want. Yep, that thing.

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How much do they cost normally?

Can somebody please try to get Bush and Blair done for war crimes then. Guilty as fuck though he is, the court was a joke.

Hmm... I think that it's not a good thing that he's to be executed.

At least at this period in time. There are too many unanswered questions left, and too many things he could tell the world.

Saddam Hussein is clearly an evil man guily of many crimes against humanity. He deserves to be punished.

However, his trial was unfair and biased. He did not receive a fair trial. His sentence of death is inhumane. How can western countries expect to set an example; how can we call our societies democratic, fair and humane, if we stand by and make unreserved cries of support for this result in the trial.

Terrorists and undemocratic governments can now simply point to this trial and its sentence when we call on them to further democracy and human rights next time.

I kinda agree with this...

I also think that it's a bad thing that he got the death penalty. He should have gotten life in prison.

For those about to protest hanging as a barbaric and evil way to kill people, I should point out that it is most likely, when done correctly, one of the least painful methods of execution. Some argue for lethal injection, but its difficult to prove whether or not that is painful.
A proper hanging snaps your neck instantly and kills you instantly or in the few seconds afterwards.

Not an arguement for/against hanging Saddaam, or for or against exeuction, merely stating the facts as I know them.

The difficulty is that you don't know how well you have hung someone untill after you have hung them. You could think you have set the gallows out perfectly, but still have the expected result of having a half-dead corpse squirming at the end of a rope.

The image of Saddam Hussein spastically squirming at the end of a rope with faeces dripping down his trouser legs is going to have to be a very powerful propaganda image, and I doubt it will be to our advantage.

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...in every package! :D

He's earned his punishment.

Are you saying that hanging Saddam is an action comparable to killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people?

No, but taking him out of power was

And to think that the GOP accused the Democrats of timing the Foley scandal... :rolleyes:

NECKTIE PARTY!!!

I hope they televise it. Then I can have some friends over and down a few brews watching the festivities :D

Burn baby burn!

I hope Saddam's death will bring much needed closure to everyone who lost loved ones in 9/11.

I'm ambivalent. I'm delighted that a mad dog will be destroyed and at the same time I realize that it will not deter or destroy the other mad dogs that are still loose.

I hope Saddam's death will bring much needed closure to everyone who lost loved ones in 9/11.

That was a plot orchestrated by Monsieur Osama and his evil Al-Qaida underlings.Saddam had very little to do with it,it was more an excuse to go to War,along with WMD's.

Well, here's a little picture....

I hope Saddam's death will bring much needed closure to everyone who lost loved ones in 9/11.
I think you are confusing Osama Bin Laden with Saddam? Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

In any case, the death penalty is wrong in any society.

I think you are confusing Osama Bin Laden with Saddam? Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.Indeed.

In any case, the death penalty is wrong in any society.Only because of possible flaws in the justice systems. Otherwise punishing a sufficiently severe crime by removing the individual who commited the crime from humanity permanently is just fine.
.

I think you are confusing Osama Bin Laden with Saddam? Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.
No, I meant that... ugh, never mind...

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How much do these things normally cost?

And for anyone who thinks Saddam got a fair trial with due process, just ask his defence about that. (http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/04/farce-of-law-trial-of-saddam-hussein.php)

For the record, I think Saddam WOULD lose a fair trial. I think he would be tried, convicted, and sentanced appropriately.

But carrying out the sentance of this Mickey Mouse charade will do nothing but fan the flames of disconent in that troubled country.

Yet another f*ckup in this rediculously mismanaged blunder.

And int he meantime the war we HAVE a chance to win, is slipping out of our grasp too (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/05/world/asia/05afghan.html?ex=1320382800&en=0039ab3c51746a39&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss), and getting it's funding cut to free up resources to toss down the black hole of Baghdad.

I think you are confusing Osama Bin Laden with Saddam? Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

In any case, the death penalty is wrong in any society.

I think you missed the sarcasm.

No, I meant that... ugh, never mind...
I am sorry if I missed your sarcasm. :)

How much do these things normally cost?

Contact the White House, I'm sure they have the receipt for the original purchase somewhere :p

I hope Saddam's death will bring much needed closure to everyone who lost loved ones in 9/11.

Are you brain-dead or just too redneck to think?

And for anyone who thinks Saddam got a fair trial with due process, just ask his defence about that. (http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/04/farce-of-law-trial-of-saddam-hussein.php)


Well of course his defense is going to say he didn't get a fair trial. :rolleyes:

Are you brain-dead or just too redneck to think?

He (she?) is being sarcastic.

Right. The Republicans have had their sham trial. They've shamelessly used "justice" as a poorly prepared colloseum showing in a "Bread and Circus" campaign.

Now can we give the man a real trial, or is that asking too much? Take him in front of the ICC and let a court that hasn't been created with the sole purpose of finding a man guilty for a foreign party's political gain.

Many live deserve to die and many that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be so eager to hand out death in judgement for even the very wise cannot see all ends.

" 'He deserves death'.
'Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them ? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.' "
-- J. R. R. Tolkien - The Lord of the Rings

Hrmph.. give the man credit at least...

Well of course his defense is going to say he didn't get a fair trial. :rolleyes:

Nice rebuttal to the content of the assertions.

But - in your defence - it is almost needless to say that a defence team that includes such notoriously underhanded lawyers as Ramsey Clark is guaranteed to be dishonest in their assertions....

Right. The Republicans have had their sham trial. They've shamelessly used "justice" as a poorly prepared colloseum showing in a "Bread and Circus" campaign.

Now can we give the man a real trial, or is that asking too much? Take him in front of the ICC and let a court that hasn't been created with the sole purpose of finding a man guilty for a foreign party's political gain.

The ICC doesn't have jurisdiction, and I doubt you'll get the UNSC to accept a referral.

It would be sad if Saddam escaped the worst charges of crimes against humanity because he had been executed for the lesser charge :(

Certain US states still hang people...

I for one am glad Saddam's request to be executed by firing squad was not granted and that he will be hanged "like a common criminal".

The ICC doesn't have jurisdiction, and I doubt you'll get the UNSC to accept a referral.

It would be sad if Saddam escaped the worst charges of crimes against humanity because he had been executed for the lesser charge :(

I know. It would be even sadder if his death established a precedent in Iraqi law for allowing sham trials to stand as real ones.

A bunch of people have called this trial a "sham" and a "mockery" and such things. I don't understand on what basis you say this. There was much evidence presented, the entire process was gone though. I, for one, was NOT convinced the judges would have the guts to convict him, even though it was absolutely blatently obvious he is guilty. Other people set up other trials for him if that one didn't work, so they weren't sure he'd be found guilty either. The fact is, I'm mildly surprised at the verdict, and it was certainly not a foregone conclusion.

Those of you who call it a sham merely seem to me to be buying into Saddam's rhetoric. HE is the one who said it was a mockery and a sham. And you believed it? Sheep. You would've followed Hitler to conquor the world, too, no doubt. Shame on you.

A bunch of people have called this trial a "sham" and a "mockery" and such things. I don't understand on what basis you say this. There was much evidence presented, the entire process was gone though. I, for one, was NOT convinced the judges would have the guts to convict him, even though it was absolutely blatently obvious he is guilty. Other people set up other trials for him if that one didn't work, so they weren't sure he'd be found guilty either. The fact is, I'm mildly surprised at the verdict, and it was certainly not a foregone conclusion.

Those of you who call it a sham merely seem to me to be buying into Saddam's rhetoric. HE is the one who said it was a mockery and a sham. And you believed it? Sheep. You would've followed Hitler to conquor the world, too, no doubt. Shame on you.

Lessee:

- Constantly quitting judges
- Witnesses too young to remember what they testify about
- Witnesses payed to show up at court
- An American legal tribunal running the whole thing from back-scenes
- Saddam's lawyers keep getting killed
- Purposeful repositioning of the verdict date for just before the elections.

'Nuff said.

Hanging is still done, even in the United States. I don't consider it strange.

I wonder if anything will be televised.

FREE SADDAM! THIS TRIAL WAS RIGGED! (other Sunni complaints)*

*this is not satire but my actual opinion :)

Hanging is still done, even in the United States. I don't consider it strange.

I wonder if anything will be televised.

Ok, when was the last hanging done in the US? As far as I know, we now do lethal injection.

I want it to be televised, or at least on youtube.

A bunch of people have called this trial a "sham" and a "mockery" and such things. I don't understand on what basis you say this. There was much evidence presented, the entire process was gone though. I, for one, was NOT convinced the judges would have the guts to convict him, even though it was absolutely blatently obvious he is guilty. Other people set up other trials for him if that one didn't work, so they weren't sure he'd be found guilty either. The fact is, I'm mildly surprised at the verdict, and it was certainly not a foregone conclusion.

Those of you who call it a sham merely seem to me to be buying into Saddam's rhetoric. HE is the one who said it was a mockery and a sham. And you believed it? Sheep. You would've followed Hitler to conquor the world, too, no doubt. Shame on you.



Congrats, you win the Godwin award!

Ok, when was the last hanging done in the US? As far as I know, we now do lethal injection.

It varies from state to state.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=8&did=245#state

Interestingly, the state of Washington allows you to request hanging instead of lethal injection.

Saddam should be freed. He did not get a fair trail.

Saddam should be freed. He did not get a fair trail.
Saddam should not be freed. He should instead get a fair trial.

Saddam should not be freed. He should instead get a fair trial.

He does not need a fair trail. He is the President of Iraq, he should be treated as such.

He does not need a fair trail. He is the President of Iraq, he should be treated as such.

He WAS the president of Iraq. he wasn't in the most recent election. :p

He WAS the president of Iraq. he wasn't in the most recent election. :p

he would have been re-elected if he was on the ballot and not being paraded around in some courtroom by the Americans.

I'm watching CNN right now, and Saddam Hussein has been found guilty and sentenced to death, by hanging.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/05/dujail.saddam/index.html

Just in time for the elections, what a surprise. :o

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Meh....Yay ...:eek: I cant believe they would actually sentence the guy to hang...what a shocker...:eek: :eek:

It varies from state to state.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=8&did=245#state

Interestingly, the state of Washington allows you to request hanging instead of lethal injection.

Wow, do they make a spectacle out of it, or do they only let a few witness the hanging?

Just for anyone who thinks that hanging Saddam will not make him a martyr.
In Australia, most people consider the bank robber "Ned Kelly" to be a folk hero for his defiance of the authorities, probably because he was hanged. Numerous movies and books have been created about him and we even have a Ned Kelly Museum.
If the US goes ahead and kills Saddam he will be immortalisted as a hero.
Death by hanging is barbaric anyway. No wonder every western nation (except the US) no longer practices capital punishment.

Just for anyone who thinks that hanging Saddam will not make him a martyr.
In Australia, most people consider the bank robber "Ned Kelly" to be a folk hero for his defiance of the authorities, probably because he was hanged. Numerous movies and books have been created about him and we even have a Ned Kelly Museum.
If the US goes ahead and kills Saddam he will be immortalisted as a hero.
Death by hanging is barbaric anyway. No wonder every western nation (except the US) no longer practices capital punishment.

And even the US doesn't hang people anymore.

I'm watching CNN right now, and Saddam Hussein has been found guilty and sentenced to death, by hanging.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/05/dujail.saddam/index.html

No...no! It can't be! The world cannot be so sick! The world cannot be so awful to take away the basic right to live no matter what one has done! This can't be happening! It must be a dream! I must be insane, it must be a hallucination! What justice is there?! What liberty is there?! Surely they should know an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind! We have seen what happened when a government is born in the blood of its overthrown ruler! Surely we know the blood of the king brought the Reign of Terror! Madness! We must be mad, raving lunatics to do this! We must be heartless, apathetic bastards to show no mercy, no remote sign of kindness or sympathy, and hang him! Why must we do this?! Why?!?!

*cries*

What is there left in us? What sliver of compassion we once had was lost? If Saddam is hung, then it will bring me to truly believe that humanity is doomed.

It's interesting, here in Aus last night I got the news watching SBS, the news scrolled at the top of the screen during a program. It was actually a german movie about two boys who joined the Hitler Youth in 1942.

Anyways we all know the despotic methods, but if we look at what he said after the sentence was given, the guy is still a Iraqi nationalist, and I would say he probably hates what the US annexation has done to his country. The US seems to believe that the insurgents in Iraq are all mostly foreign trained religious extremists, but they dont consider that a large proportion of the insurgency are Baathist Iraqi nationalists who condemn the targetting of civilians and want a national resistance against the US, who knows what the death of the Baathist movements head in the ME will do.

No...no! It can't be! The world cannot be so sick! The world cannot be so awful to take away the basic right to live no matter what one has done! This can't be happening! It must be a dream! I must be insane, it must be a hallucination! What justice is there?! What liberty is there?! Surely they should know an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind! We have seen what happened when a government is born in the blood of its overthrown ruler! Surely we know the blood of the king brought the Reign of Terror! Madness! We must be mad, raving lunatics to do this! We must be heartless, apathetic bastards to show no mercy, no remote sign of kindness or sympathy, and hang him! Why must we do this?! Why?!?!

*cries*

What is there left in us? What sliver of compassion we once had was lost? If Saddam is hung, then it will bring me to truly believe that humanity is doomed.

We have to kill him so that we can end global warming, terrorism and hunger.

Congratulations America, now that Saddam Hussein is sentenced to death (as expected, two days from congressional votes), willing to kill him just for votes. Man, what a new low for the Republicans. Killing Saddam Hussein won't bring back all those innocent Iraqis that passed away while Saddam was behind a secrete jail in Baghdad, or was he responsible for that as well? What happened to the WMDs? Where are the links between Saddam Hussein’s government and Al Qaeda? All that shit Bush claimed about Iraq before the war, wasn’t true but since Bush got his war, everything that was false from their claims are now coming to haunt them. Just before the Iraq war, who knew an Iraqi would strap himself (or herself) with a bomb and go after a target, now this is happening all over Iraq. Al Qaeda easily found itself in Iraq amidst the confusion of the Iraqi war (thanks to Bush and Cheney and Rumsfield). American troops have suffered, Iraqis are suffering, and if this war gets out of hand, at least America is privileged enough to just leaving Iraq and its people to its demise, like Vietnam.

And even the US doesn't hang people anymore.

Actually, in Texas/Florida, one can be hung for stealing one's horse. A law that never got repealed...

he would have been re-elected if he was on the ballot and not being paraded around in some courtroom by the Americans.

Ah. One of those elections where you have the choice of voting for Saddam, Saddam or Saddam? I guess his re-election would be guarenteed! Instead he will die for his crimes. I'm certainly not going to shed any tears over his fate despite how distasteful I find the death penalty.

And even the US doesn't hang people anymore.

Hell, I'd consider hanging to be more merciful then the electric chair or the gas chamber. With hanging your neck breaks. Quick. Not so with the other two which replaced the noose.

I lived in the Middle East for a while. While visiting Syria, my family and I turned the corner to see three men being hanged at a public hanging. They also still chop off hands for stealing.

it's that tickling little recognition that he's a living being about to be destroyed, and that everyone rejoicing in it might as well be rejoicing in their own death. or maybe not.
I've been reading your posts in this thread and well.. I just have to ask. Are you trying to be some kind of troll or a nut? Or are you for real?

I've been reading your posts in this thread and well.. I just have to ask. Are you trying to be some kind of troll or a nut? Or are you for real?

I'm completely serious. read my blog (http://www.xanga.com/feralnostalgia) if you think I'm a troll. most of it isn't about ethics or politics, but it's in there. the link in my signature is to the consistent life ethic group. what was it about what I said that was so incredibly strange?

I've been reading your posts in this thread and well.. I just have to ask. Are you trying to be some kind of troll or a nut? Or are you for real?

that's got to be the least justified accusation of trolling i've seen on these forums. stating a considered opinion that is inopposition to yours is not trolling. go look at the forum rules for a definition.

that's got to be the least justified accusation of trolling i've seen on these forums. stating a considered opinion that is inopposition to yours is not trolling. go look at the forum rules for a definition.

heh, I will admit my opinion is not one frequently voiced in political discussions. most people who agree with me don't get involved even remotely in politics or political debate. most political debates involve two parties that accept as completely normal the things I disagree with, and then quibble over semantics from there. "should gays be in the military?", "pro-life" death-penalty supporters, and the like. I have yet to find even a third party that represents socially liberal consistent-life ethic politics. liberals take abortion and atheism for granted and conservatives...christ, what *don't* they do...I suppose it could look like I'm in character or something, since people like me, though the position is one of the oldest ones in existance (strict pacifist mystic theism is older than dirt...), it's positively alien to todays political landscape.

And for anyone who thinks Saddam got a fair trial with due process, just ask his defence about that. (http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/04/farce-of-law-trial-of-saddam-hussein.php)
HAHAHAHAHAHahahahaha.....


My favorite part of that sad joke.

It is not the person on trial in Iraq who committed this crime, but the American President George W. Bush and his allies. Rather than being brought to justice for their crimes, the Bush administration and it allies resorted to trying their victims in a manner that insults longstanding concepts of justice and fair trial — both a central Islamic value and an international human right.
rofl

rofl

Saddam is a victim of the U.S. now? Well, we kicked him out of power so I guess we victimized him that way. :D

A bunch of people have called this trial a "sham" and a "mockery" and such things. I don't understand on what basis you say this. There was much evidence presented, the entire process was gone though. I, for one, was NOT convinced the judges would have the guts to convict him, even though it was absolutely blatently obvious he is guilty. Other people set up other trials for him if that one didn't work, so they weren't sure he'd be found guilty either. The fact is, I'm mildly surprised at the verdict, and it was certainly not a foregone conclusion.

Those of you who call it a sham merely seem to me to be buying into Saddam's rhetoric. HE is the one who said it was a mockery and a sham. And you believed it? Sheep. You would've followed Hitler to conquor the world, too, no doubt. Shame on you.
Too true. Group of 'free thinkers' (a word/term I use very, very loosely in this context) which seems to be getting bigger and bigger in the world.. Illuminated dolts, sheep.

A bunch of people have called this trial a "sham" and a "mockery" and such things. I don't understand on what basis you say this. There was much evidence presented, the entire process was gone though. I, for one, was NOT convinced the judges would have the guts to convict him, even though it was absolutely blatently obvious he is guilty. Other people set up other trials for him if that one didn't work, so they weren't sure he'd be found guilty either. The fact is, I'm mildly surprised at the verdict, and it was certainly not a foregone conclusion.

Those of you who call it a sham merely seem to me to be buying into Saddam's rhetoric. HE is the one who said it was a mockery and a sham. And you believed it? Sheep. You would've followed Hitler to conquor the world, too, no doubt. Shame on you.

was supressing an uprising illegal in Iraq at the time he did it? no. leaders kill people legally all the time.

so he should have gone to the hague where the global community has set up a court to deal with tyrants like him.

it was a kangaroo court and now he will be martered. thats not 'buying into saddams thetoric' thats just the facts.

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/hanging.gif

*gives LG a taco*

It is not the person on trial in Iraq who committed this crime, but the American President George W. Bush and his allies. Rather than being brought to justice for their crimes, the Bush administration and it allies resorted to trying their victims in a manner that insults longstanding concepts of justice and fair trial — both a central Islamic value and an international human right.Saddam is a victim of the U.S. now?the people of Iraq is a victim of the US.

it was a kangaroo court ... thats just the facts.Yep, It is a kangaroo court.

Yep, It is a kangaroo court.
http://hammeroftruth.com/images/articles/1919-kangaroo_court.jpg

:eek:

Just for anyone who thinks that hanging Saddam will not make him a martyr.
In Australia, most people consider the bank robber "Ned Kelly" to be a folk hero for his defiance of the authorities, probably because he was hanged. Numerous movies and books have been created about him and we even have a Ned Kelly Museum.
If the US goes ahead and kills Saddam he will be immortalisted as a hero.
Death by hanging is barbaric anyway. No wonder every western nation (except the US) no longer practices capital punishment.He will be mortalized as no hero.
.

the people of Iraq is a victim of the US.That is true. Nevertheless the people of Iraq had been Saddam's victims prior to that. But since the US was allied with Saddam back then it does not really make much of a difference.
.

It is stupid to kill Saddam, because:

1.Death penalty delivered via a political process is not very good for democracy.
2.If Saddam dies, he will take a lot of secrets with him to the grave - like, for example, who funded him to fight Iran in the '80s, or who gave him the poison gases he used against the Kurds.
3.Some Sunnis might see Saddam as a martyr of US oppression, and stir even more trouble.

Let's try Saddam for ALL atrocities he committed and grant him a fair trial (this trial has been anything but fair); get his accomplices, too; estabilish historical truth about the Baathist regime; jail Saddam and his accomplices for life.

It'll be good to see sadaam twisting in the wind

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/hanging.gif

sums it up.

I'm stunned.

No, really...

I'm watching CNN right now, and Saddam Hussein has been found guilty and sentenced to death, by hanging.

About time, and good riddence.

About time, and good riddence.

Word.

Now when do we get to do the same to those who helped him to power and supported his regime? Ignoring his abuses until he pissed them off by attacking Kuwait?

Y'know, the British and American governments of the time?

Right. The Republicans have had their sham trial. They've shamelessly used "justice" as a poorly prepared colloseum showing in a "Bread and Circus" campaign.

Now can we give the man a real trial, or is that asking too much? Take him in front of the ICC and let a court that hasn't been created with the sole purpose of finding a man guilty for a foreign party's political gain.

The ICC? The same guys that kept Slobodan Milošević on trial for YEARS, totally perverting justice? Riiiight. What's next? The UN Food for Oil Scandal didn't happen? Please. It was an Iraqi judge in an Iraqi court in Iraq.

Had it been in Gitmo or Miami or something, you might have a let to stand on. Maybe. All you're showing right now is that you can't stand the idea that *something* in Iraq went well.

It is stupid to kill Saddam, because:

1.Death penalty delivered via a political process is not very good for democracy.
2.If Saddam dies, he will take a lot of secrets with him to the grave - like, for example, who funded him to fight Iran in the '80s, or who gave him the poison gases he used against the Kurds.
3.Some Sunnis might see Saddam as a martyr of US oppression, and stir even more trouble.

Let's try Saddam for ALL atrocities he committed and grant him a fair trial (this trial has been anything but fair); get his accomplices, too; estabilish historical truth about the Baathist regime; jail Saddam and his accomplices for life.

1. Political process? Surely you mean Judicial?
2. You really think he'd answer any of that truthfully?
3. Not as much the chance to keep up the sectarian violence, destabilize the government, and perhaps free him.

Let's try Saddam for ALL atrocities he committed and grant him a fair trial (this trial has been anything but fair); get his accomplices, too; estabilish historical truth about the Baathist regime; jail Saddam and his accomplices for life.
What has been unfair about Saddam's trial? I haven't been watching it on Court TV, but it does seem that he has had counsel, knows the charges against him, and has had the trial conducted according to a set of rules that don't change midway. What's the problem? That he's being tried by the people that suffered his atrocities? That's one of the results of winning a war -- you get to redress your grievances.

Ah. One of those elections where you have the choice of voting for Saddam, Saddam or Saddam? I guess his re-election would be guarenteed! Instead he will die for his crimes. I'm certainly not going to shed any tears over his fate despite how distasteful I find the death penalty.


I'm talking about now. I think most voters would vote for Saddam since he brought stability.

i hope the u.s.a doesn't hang him , what gives them the right to be the country to hang him , why not other countrys that have more right other than a big military and goverment

2.If Saddam dies, he will take a lot of secrets with him to the grave - like, for example, who funded him to fight Iran in the '80s, or who gave him the poison gases he used against the Kurds.Just ask Rumsfeld. He knows.
.

i hope the u.s.a doesn't hang him , what gives them the right to be the country to hang him , why not other countrys that have more right other than a big military and goverment

Do you know anything about the topic?

He was judged by an Iraqi judge. He's being hung by the Iraqi Government.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6118590.stm

Saddam should have been shot on the spot in the hole they found him in. Ignominious, quick, and not a message broadcast that would make him a martyr. Everyone knows he committed crimes pure and simple, he deserves to die and shouldn't have had the trouble spent on him of a long trial.

Another used up ex-American Pet Dictator a la Manny Noriega no longer serving the United States interests sentenced to death in a country that's in a civil war all but in name.

Yeah, that'll help win the "War of Terror."

The verdict and the sentence really isn't a surprise. Good to know world leaders can be held accountable for atrocities committed under their guidance and sentenced to death for it.

I just hope certain other leaders can remember that one size fits all when it comes to the noose.

I'm talking about now. I think most voters would vote for Saddam since he brought stability.

Yes- the mass graves around Iraq were full of subjects that had been "stablized".

And of course this surprises no one.

Now when do we get to do the same to those who helped him to power and supported his regime? Ignoring his abuses until he pissed them off by attacking Kuwait?

Y'know, the British and American governments of the time?

And also France, Italy and Germany. Namely: Mitterrand (dead), Kohl (living), Andreotti (living), Craxi (dead)...

That is true. Nevertheless the people of Iraq had been Saddam's victims prior to that. But since the US was allied with Saddam back then it does not really make much of a difference.
.

The US government helped Saddaam get his power, thus those who helped him get to power are partly responsible for what he did thereafter.

Also, he was supported by the US and the UN in the Iran-Iraq war, which left the economy in shambles. When Kuwaitt flooded the market with oil in the late 1980's, Iraq was unable to strengthen it's economy, and before going to war with Kuwaitt, had actually asked for permission, of sorts, from the US if we would stay out of it, which we agreed to. He invaded, Bush Sr. lied, and left Iraq in economic shambles, and embarrassed by defeat, not to mention pissed off at us for going back on our word.

So, really, there is a lot to blame on the US Government of the times.

I have to say that I agree with the sentence. He did terrible things to people, and other than a life sentence, there's no other punishment that would fit the crime. As well, if he were to have life-imprisonment, then chances are extremists would try to break him out of there.

Another point is that even for all the bad he did, he DID keep those different religions and races under control. Yes, it was a bad way of doing it, but back then it was a few murders a day, whereas now it's hundreds a day. Iraq is a hellhole which should not have been touched, but instead influenced.

The US government helped Saddaam get his power, thus those who helped him get to power are partly responsible for what he did thereafter.

Also, he was supported by the US and the UN in the Iran-Iraq war, which left the economy in shambles. When Kuwaitt flooded the market with oil in the late 1980's, Iraq was unable to strengthen it's economy, and before going to war with Kuwaitt, had actually asked for permission, of sorts, from the US if we would stay out of it, which we agreed to. He invaded, Bush Sr. lied, and left Iraq in economic shambles, and embarrassed by defeat, not to mention pissed off at us for going back on our word.

So, really, there is a lot to blame on the US Government of the times.

To tell you the truth, the US Government is one of the most dangerous governments in the world. I really wish someone would give it a good smacking. >_>

Another used up ex-American Pet Dictator a la Manny Noriega no longer serving the United States interests sentenced to death in a country that's in a civil war all but in name.

Yeah, that'll help win the "War of Terror."
Interesting that you'd see it this way. This trial was conducted soley by Iraqis, yet you see the hand of the United States in it. I'm not going to second-guess the people of Iraq. You might want to keep in mind that this is a guy who's on trial right now for killing, in a separate incident, 180,000 people, and killed hundreds of thousands of his own citizens. This isn't about our battle against Muslim extremists, it's about the emergence of Iraq as a democratic nation.