NationStates Jolt Archive

Right so. I've been attempting to drag off topic posts off of a NSUN forum. The topic, the Nature of Sexuality.

Is breast feeding sexual? To the mother? To the child?

Is anything sexual to a pre adolescent, or are they by definition asexual?

Is anything involving manipulation of mammaries sexual?

I won't link to previous discussion on this topic, as I've been ordered not to. I will link to this thread, and hope people stop closing it so the off topic NSUN posts have some bloody place to go.

My answer to the above questions, it's just a matter of definition. Sexuality is an amorphous concept, difficult to tie down. Some define it as: "refers to the expression of sexual sensation and related intimacy between human beings, as well as the expression of identity through sex and as influenced by or based on sex." (I've been told to stop citing my source for some bizarre reason).

That's using the word sex to define sexuality.

If you define sex it comes down to either referring to intercourse, genitalia, or gender. Breast feeding is a capability unique to females. It involves secondary sex organs. It is not intercourse. Does that make it sexual?

Sexual is whatever is intended to be sexual. Therefore, breastfeeding is not, but lightly touching someones arm could be.

Sexual is whatever is intended to be sexual. Therefore, breastfeeding is not, but lightly touching someones arm could be.

Interesting. So nude pictures of a woman are sexual if?

Interesting. So nude pictures of a woman are sexual if?

Again, it depends on the circumstances. Pornographic images are most obviously sexual. Art images might be sexual, as it is the intention to highlight the beauty of the body, but they might not be, as they may be intended to show vulnerability or exposure, for example. A simple, non posed image of a person in the shower, however, is only sexual at the viewers end, as there is no intention to create sexuality; the person is not aware the camera is even there.

If breastfeeding is sexual, then so is giving birth, or peeing, or pooing, or eating...

Right so. I've been attempting to drag off topic posts off of a NSUN forum. The topic, the Nature of Sexuality.

Is breast feeding sexual? To the mother? To the child?

Is anything sexual to a pre adolescent, or are they by definition asexual?

Is anything involving manipulation of mammaries sexual?

I won't link to previous discussion on this topic, as I've been ordered not to. I will link to this thread, and hope people stop closing it so the off topic NSUN posts have some bloody place to go.

My answer to the above questions, it's just a matter of definition. Sexuality is an amorphous concept, difficult to tie down. Some define it as: "refers to the expression of sexual sensation and related intimacy between human beings, as well as the expression of identity through sex and as influenced by or based on sex." (I've been told to stop citing my source for some bizarre reason).

That's using the word sex to define sexuality.

If you define sex it comes down to either referring to intercourse, genitalia, or gender. Breast feeding is a capability unique to females. It involves secondary sex organs. It is not intercourse. Does that make it sexual?

Breast feeding is generally not sexual, in my opinion. However, suckling on a breast may become so if it is done for the purposes of sexual arousal or stimulation.

The consensus so far is intent.

What categories of intent make an act sexual?

Breast feeding is just for food, not for anything sexual.

I breast fed my baby and it was not sexual at all. I can say there was a fair amount of intimacy but it wasn't a sexual intimacy, it was similar to being pregnant, knowing that I am sustaining another human, only this had the added benefit of her snuggles. ;)

If breastfeeding is sexual, then so is giving birth, or peeing, or pooing, or eating...

http://www.jeffpidgeon.com/uploaded_images/paris-hilton-sucks-707009.jpg
"That's hot."

Sexual is what you make of it. I know a girl right now who gets turned on by pain. Not like little pain, but "push me down the stairs" & "I'm going to cut myself & take a bleach bath" pain. Some people get turned on by piercings. Others get turned on by tubgirl & goatse.cx.

Sexual is what you make of it. I know a girl right now who gets turned on by pain. Not like little pain, but "push me down the stairs" & "I'm going to cut myself & take a bleach bath" pain. Some people get turned on by piercings. Others get turned on by tubgirl & goatse.cx.

I hope I never meet this girl in a dark alley on a cold night.

I hope I never meet this girl in a dark alley on a cold night.

I second that.

I would assume that sexualty must have someone being sexually aroused at the act (either view or partisapating). Since the baby in question is thinking lunch, and the mother (according to Smunkee) is thinking tenderness type thoughts, it doesn't seem likely unless there is a third party to view it and find it sexual.

It's discussions like these that turn women off breastfeeding. Breastfeeding your own baby, in my opinion, isn't sexual at all. It's feeding them; and dare I say it, providing them the best food they can get (providing of course mum isn't some sort of drug addict / that baby isn't 5 years old...). Dare I admit it, my Mum breastfed me for almost 2 years (thank God I don't remember back that far, though) and guess what, I've hardly been sick in my lifetime. I thank her for that. Whereas my sister was born rather small and was put on bottles straight away by the nurses, and her health hasn't been quite as kind.

Intent is probably the best explaination for it. I strongly doubt mother or baby would be turned on by it, but an onlooker might. Then again most guys I know are completely turned off by breastfeeding and say that it should be banned outright from public places.

"That's hot."No it isn't. But the guy on the poster Fass posted in the other thread was.

It's all in the eye of the beholder. I've never even considered breastfeeding could be seen as something sensual/sexual before I came across these moralist-ridden fora.

Then again, I'd like to meet the pain-loving chick, 'cos that sounds fucking hot.

As far as age goes in sexuality, I knew someone with a toddler who used to mastrubate quite often. Occasionally in public. Yikes. I'd be embarassed to death.

As far as age goes in sexuality, I knew someone with a toddler who used to mastrubate quite often. Occasionally in public. Yikes. I'd be embarassed to death.

He used to masturbate with a toddler? Did you tell the police?

The touching of anything can be deemed as sexual... :eek:

As far as age goes in sexuality, I knew someone with a toddler who used to mastrubate quite often. Occasionally in public. Yikes. I'd be embarassed to death.

They toddler or the person with him/her?

They toddler or the person with him/her?

Don't ask. A statement like that has so many possible meanings it's more fun to decide which one you like best and run with it. :p

They toddler or the person with him/her?

The toddler. She.
And at the time I didn't know enough to be anything but creeped out by the kid.

The toddler. She.
And at the time I didn't know enough to be anything but creeped out by the kid.

That is...weird.

That is...weird.

I remember hearing something about children masturbating in the womb. But it could very well have been a pile of lies.

It's discussions like these that turn women off breastfeeding. Breastfeeding your own baby, in my opinion, isn't sexual at all. It's feeding them; and dare I say it, providing them the best food they can get (providing of course mum isn't some sort of drug addict / that baby isn't 5 years old...). Dare I admit it, my Mum breastfed me for almost 2 years (thank God I don't remember back that far, though) and guess what, I've hardly been sick in my lifetime. I thank her for that. Whereas my sister was born rather small and was put on bottles straight away by the nurses, and her health hasn't been quite as kind.

Intent is probably the best explaination for it. I strongly doubt mother or baby would be turned on by it, but an onlooker might. Then again most guys I know are completely turned off by breastfeeding and say that it should be banned outright from public places.

You can't fear "turning people off" of an activity by having simple discussion a bout the activity. Frankly, if a mother's don't breast feed based on their squemishness about sex then they really should read medical documentation regarding the crucial health benefits of breastfeading. Some things are only found in a mother's milk.

I remember hearing something about children masturbating in the womb. But it could very well have been a pile of lies.

Many definitions of Masturbation won't even apply to a prebuscent. It is natural for a mammal to touch every part of it's body, regularly. Watch a dog or cat groom itself. Until the brain get's wired by adolscence in preparation for sexual reproduction, I wouldn't consider any action masturbation. It would be more like scratching an itch.

The toddler. She.
And at the time I didn't know enough to be anything but creeped out by the kid.

That is...weird.

I remember hearing something about children masturbating in the womb. But it could very well have been a pile of lies.

why is touching your body all of the sudden masturbation? isn't it an intent thing?

anyway, toddlers are exploring the world, they play with just about all of their body, they pull on their toes, they pat their belly to make sounds, and they explore their genitals I don't think it's a sexual thing other than a "wow, look at that" thing.

I try not to be disturbed by it, but when you work in preschool there are too many opportunities to be creeped out, like when the kid comes running naked and crying from the bathroom because he has an erection. You try explaining that to a 3 year old. :eek: I tried so hard not to laugh at him, and was like "it's normal, quit touching it and it will go away" apparently him rubbing it to try to fix it didn't work......:p

then I had to tell his mom about it.....she was mad at me "didn't you tell him it's dirty?" and I said "no, because it isn't you know" got in trouble for that.

why is touching your body all of the sudden masturbation? isn't it an intent thing?

anyway, toddlers are exploring the world, they play with just about all of their body, they pull on their toes, they pat their belly to make sounds, and they explore their genitals I don't think it's a sexual thing other than a "wow, look at that" thing.

I try not to be disturbed by it, but when you work in preschool there are too many opportunities to be creeped out, like when the kid comes running naked and crying from the bathroom because he has an erection. You try explaining that to a 3 year old. :eek: I tried so hard not to laugh at him, and was like "it's normal, quit touching it and it will go away" apparently him rubbing it to try to fix it didn't work......:p

then I had to tell his mom about it.....she was mad at me "didn't you tell him it's dirty?" and I said "no, because it isn't you know" got in trouble for that.
Yup. Little kids explore their bodies in an almost absent-minded way. Little kids figure out that certain things feel nice. I don't see why anybody should be shocked or disgusted by it, either.

I remember when we had to explain to my kid brother that there are certain things you shouldn't do in public because they are considered rude. I remember my parents giving me similar talks when I was still very small (pre-kindergarten, though my memories are a tad hazy back then). I knew that rubbing certain spots felt nice, but I didn't really process it as sexual or anything like that.

Indeed, when my parents first explained to me that masturbation is connected to sex, my reaction was, "Eeeeew!!!" I thought masturbation was perfectly reasonable and simple, but sex was weird and yucky. I couldn't understand how something so harmless and fun could be connected to the yucky sex stuff (eeeew, kissing on the lips! eeeeew!!!).

All that is necessary is to tell the kid that it's rude to rub your sex organs in public, much like you teach them that it's rude to extend a particular finger in a certain way. Does this mean that touching of sex organs is universally bad? Of course not! No more than extending that finger is universally bad. It doesn't mean sex organs are sinful or dirty, any more than the middle finger of one's hand is, it just means that how we behave in public should reflect our respect for the fact that we are in a shared space. Things that are appropriate or OK in private are not always appropriate for public behavior. Even very young kids can usually grasp this concept...it's like teaching them about using "indoor voices" and "outside voices" in the appropriate locations.

So we've established that it's all about intent, right? So if a woman finds herself arroused during breast feeding, and that acts as a modivation to do so (while still performing the usual function of feeding the child), she should be considered a child molester? That sounds pretty stupid to me.

Sexual is what you make of it. I know a girl right now who gets turned on by pain. Not like little pain, but "push me down the stairs" & "I'm going to cut myself & take a bleach bath" pain. Some people get turned on by piercings. Others get turned on by tubgirl & goatse.cx.

Slight eek. Just how did you find out she was turned on by extreme pain? It's not something that comes up in every day conversation..."Hey, this steak's really good...not as good as shoving a red-hot curling iron up my ass, but good."

Anal sex rules!

Slight eek. Just how did you find out she was turned on by extreme pain? It's not something that comes up in every day conversation..."Hey, this steak's really good...not as good as shoving a red-hot curling iron up my ass, but good."

It was right around the time she asked me if I'd slap her in the face during sex. Then she asked about punching...then breaking ribs...eventually, we god to a point where I agreed upon "passive degradation"; that is, the causing of pain in manners that require no real effort on my part.

Mind you, this isn't really my gig...but I'm all for exploratory tangents.

It was right around the time she asked me if I'd slap her in the face during sex. Then she asked about punching...then breaking ribs...eventually, we god to a point where I agreed upon "passive degradation"; that is, the causing of pain in manners that require no real effort on my part.

Mind you, this isn't really my gig...but I'm all for exploratory tangents.

More eek. I'm all for the slapping and roughing up, but broken bones are not cool. There are plenty of other ways to inflict copious amounts of pain.

I wonder what she would have said to the curling iron idea...

Woah! Is this what happens when you don't check in on a thread ! The topic had some juice in it afterall :)

More eek. I'm all for the slapping and roughing up, but broken bones are not cool. There are plenty of other ways to inflict copious amounts of pain.

I wonder what she would have said to the curling iron idea...

I'll ask her. I bet she'll love it, though.

Is breast feeding sexual?
Usually not.

To the mother?
Possibly, but highly unlikely.

To the child?
As breasts are not inherently connected with anything sexual, I'd have to say that this is so unlikely as to be considered impossible. The only thing, I belive, that could be considered sexual to a child that young would be that which evokes sexual feelings in that child, I.E., manipulation of the child's sex organs.

Is anything sexual to a pre adolescent
Yep. It constantly surprises me how many people either:
a) Don't remember their childhood/never explored others/themselves sexually.
b) Haven't heard about the Kinsey reports. ("sexual behavior in the human male" and "sexual behavior in the human female" for anyone wishing to know more)

I, however, both remember and have looked through (briefly, so I'm no expert) the Kinsey reports, and the reports mesh perfectly with my own experiences. Sex comes naturally to a child. Far more then to adults, I believe. It's a natural, fun exploration of one's own and other's bodies. The only taboos are those that the "adult world" places upon children, and most of those haven't set in fully yet.

You'd be surprised how easy it is for two people who are five years old to initiate and engage in some form of sex. From my own experiences, the primary limiting factor seems to be how much of the "sexual (a)morality" of the adult world has been imposed upon children.

It was far, far easier to get virtually anyone to engage in sex play when I was five then now (eighteen).

As to the origin of my own sexual explorations, I can remember being approached by another (female) child just slightly (a year or two?) older then I. Also, to answer another question that might be asked, both males and females were involved in my own sex playings, and I was engaged by others about as much as I approached others myself. Most of these others were females, but there seems to be no inherent taboo against gay sex, either. I can't say anything about homosexual encounters among females, not being female myself.

As for masturbation, I learned that from another kid when I was around that age. Yes, I would consider it masturbation, yes, there was orgasm, no, there was no ejaculate.

or are they by definition asexual?
Nope. Unless you've got a really weird definition of asexual.

Is anything involving manipulation of mammaries sexual?
As they are not inherently sexual, it would have to depend on the person/people involved. Breasts are no more inherently sexual then the anus, ears, feet, etc.

I'll ask her. I bet she'll love it, though.

Am I a horrible person for being morbidly curious what this person says? I'm something of a sadist myself, but it's only fun for me if she's having fun too. And anyone who would go for a curling iron up her ass is probably so fucked up that she'll do anything fun.

I wonder if there's anything too fucked up for her with regards to pain...I've heard of people being into pain, but never to that degree...again, I'm a horrible person, but whatever...

As breasts are not inherently connected with anything sexual



They are seconday sex characteristics.


The only thing, I belive, that could be considered sexual to a child that young would be that which evokes sexual feelings in that child, I.E., manipulation of the child's sex organs.


You've used sexual in your definition of sexual :)




Yep. It constantly surprises me how many people either:
a) Don't remember their childhood/never explored others/themselves sexually.
b) Haven't heard about the Kinsey reports. ("sexual behavior in the human male" and "sexual behavior in the human female" for anyone wishing to know more)


Yah I'm quite familiar, as well as with Masters and Johnson, etc.. The thing is, what happens in the brain is completely different for a 5 year old then what happens to the brain of a teenager given the same actions.



Nope. Unless you've got a really weird definition of asexual.



That's what I was hoping to discuss :) What makes an action asexual, what makes a person asexual, etc.


As they are not inherently sexual, it would have to depend on the person/people involved. Breasts are no more inherently sexual then the anus, ears, feet, etc.

Breasts show up in one sex, but not the other, unlike ears, feet etc. That makes them sexual characteristics.

Breasts show up in one sex, but not the other, unlike ears, feet etc. That makes them sexual characteristics.
It doesn't make them sexual all the time though.

Ears show up in both sexes. Nibble on someone's ear and you can drive them absolutely wild. Yet they're not inherently sexual body parts. Same goes with fingers (and for some people, feet)

It doesn't make them sexual all the time though.

Ears show up in both sexes. Nibble on someone's ear and you can drive them absolutely wild. Yet they're not inherently sexual body parts. Same goes with fingers (and for some people, feet)

Ears and fingers have a lot of nerve endings, so I guess it makes sense that some of them would trigger a sexual response. Those that are in feet would just be more active in some people than in others...I've heard some people can get off just by having their feet touched. I don't know anyone like that, but i've heard of it.

Anal sex rules!

Brilliant post. :rolleyes:

Brilliant post. :rolleyes:

I'd almost forgotten about that post...oh wait, I'd completely forgotten about that post because it was irrelevant. Then you had to go bring it up again. Poop on you.

Am I a horrible person for being morbidly curious what this person says? I'm something of a sadist myself, but it's only fun for me if she's having fun too. And anyone who would go for a curling iron up her ass is probably so fucked up that she'll do anything fun.

I wonder if there's anything too fucked up for her with regards to pain...I've heard of people being into pain, but never to that degree...again, I'm a horrible person, but whatever...

I have to say on the basis of this post, I am not reading any further in this thread, nor will I, for fear that we might actually find out that she said yes to the idea, which is something I just don't need to know.

I have to say on the basis of this post, I am not reading any further in this thread, nor will I, for fear that we might actually find out that she said yes to the idea, which is something I just don't need to know.

Yay! I'm too fucked up for somebody! **throws cheez curls in the air in celebration**

Right now, I'm such a sleep deprived, overworked alcoholic that sexual drives barely figures into my life, so I really couldn't tell you much.

Right so. I've been attempting to drag off topic posts off of a NSUN forum. The topic, the Nature of Sexuality.

Is breast feeding sexual? To the mother? To the child?
Is anything sexual to a pre adolescent, or are they by definition asexual?
Is anything involving manipulation of mammaries sexual?
If you define sex it comes down to either referring to intercourse, genitalia, or gender. Breast feeding is a capability unique to females. It involves secondary sex organs. It is not intercourse. Does that make it sexual?

Breast feeding is definitely sexual. And (usually) it is pleasurable both to mother and child. (See Freud's stages of sexuality).

To a preadolescent, a lot of things are linked to sexuality. Their sexuality is yet not totally formed (adult), but the sexual drive is already working. The oral and anal phases are already developed.

Not anything involving manipulation of breasts is sexual (for example, a woman checking for possible nodules (? word) that could lead to breast cancer). But breasts are the most powerful symbol of female sexuality (the fact that humans don't walk on all fours has shifted the symbol from the anus/vagina area, as in monkeys, to breasts), and also an erogenic (? spelling) area.

So we've established that it's all about intent, right? So if a woman finds herself arroused during breast feeding, and that acts as a modivation to do so (while still performing the usual function of feeding the child), she should be considered a child molester? That sounds pretty stupid to me.

I don't think anybody would go that far, as long as it didn't range towards anything else. I think most women would bring that up with their doctor and depending on how they were dealing with it, would see a therapist. If I were ever bathing my child and found myself getting an erection that clearly wasn't random, I'd be off to see somebody about it before my child had completely dried.

Right now, I'm such a sleep deprived, overworked alcoholic that sexual drives barely figures into my life, so I really couldn't tell you much.

Switch to weed for a while. That should loosen you up a bit.

Also, I'd be positively frightened if I got an erection while bathing a child. I can't imagine I would, but as uncomfortable as I am talking about sex most of the time, I would freak.

Usually not.
Sex comes naturally to a child. Far more then to adults, I believe.


sex doesn't actually come fully naturally, there must be some kind of interaction with females (not sexual).
they've done tests on monkeys, where they isolate two male monkeys for a few years and then reintroduce them to female monkeys. the result being that they has the urge to have sex but didnt know how.

sex doesn't actually come fully naturally, there must be some kind of interaction with females (not sexual).
they've done tests on monkeys, where they isolate two male monkeys for a few years and then reintroduce them to female monkeys. the result being that they has the urge to have sex but didnt know how.

It's not natural to seperate monkeys in that fashion :) We are social creatures, all sorts of strange things happen when you isolate us.