NationStates Jolt Archive

link (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-iran-missiles,1,535168.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines)
I believe the words "spinning out of control" might be in order here! :(

The three new types of missiles, named Noor, Kowsar, and Nasr, have a range of about 105 miles and were built for naval warfare, TV reported.

Pfft.

Assuming they use existing targeting radars and have standard terminal guidance systems, they aren't much of a threat to US ships passing through the strait. Even under better circumstances than these, US naval ships are on their toes whenever they approach or enter the Gulf. *nod*

Pfft.

Gee! I wonder if the Naval Officers, serving in the Persian Gulf share your sentiments?

Gee! I wonder if the Naval Officers, serving in the Persian Gulf share your sentiments?

I suppose that depends if their Electronic Warfare module has deception techniques for the new missiles. If not, I'd certainly be a bit nervous as alternate deception techniques are not as reliable.

Assuming they use existing targeting radars and have standard terminal guidance systems, they aren't much of a threat to US ships passing through the strait. Even under better circumstances than these, US naval ships are on their toes whenever they approach or enter the Gulf. *nod*

A nuke wouldn't require much of a guidance system.

A nuke wouldn't require much of a guidance system.

I see no indication that these missiles can carry a nuclear payload and even if they did, yes; terminal guidance matters. If the missile even manage to launch. Even a delay of a minute or two due to proper jamming protocols can be enough for air assets to reach the launch site.

Launching missiles at ships is not as easy in real life as it is in NS roleplaying. :p

Gee! I wonder if the Naval Officers, serving in the Persian Gulf share your sentiments?

Probably not, but considering the big fear regarding Iran is nukes, I know I'm not worried, and neither is Israel.

They're just rattling their saber. Nothing to get excited about.

I see no indication that these missiles can carry a nuclear payload

But can you see Iran firing a conventional warhead at US ships? If so; to what end?

But can you see Iran firing a conventional warhead at US ships? If so; to what end?

Cause they're sick of electricity?? :p

But can you see Iran firing a conventional warhead at US ships? If so; to what end?

Of course.

I was in the U.S. Navy and my job in the navy was...guess what? Anti-ship missile defense. This is my area of expertise. And believe me, when the lives of everyone on your ship depends on your ability to do your job, you learn to do it as well as you possibly can.

The U.S.'s information on radar parametrics, platforms and threats is the most comprehensive in the world. This is information we don't even share with our allies. Why not? Well, suppose China wants information on Russia's radars. Just because we know it, doesn't mean we want china to know it. And if we share that information with France, they might not be as tight lipped about it as we are if the price is right.

But because of that tight control of information, very few people outside of an EW module know just how prepared we are. Because of that, there's a good chance that Iran doesn't know just how difficult it would be to launch missiles at our ships, nevermind hit them.

I could be wrong, however. My ship had been painted by an Iranian targeting radar once and I did jam it. they must have some idea how much we can degrade their launch capability.

Cause they're sick of electricity?? :p

If that's the case, then all the young-uns better start getting into shape to be drafted into the military. Iran would be the largest military mission in US history.

Of course.

I was in the U.S. Navy and my job in the navy was...guess what? Anti-ship missile defense. This is my area of expertise. And believe me, when the lives of everyone on your ship depends on your ability to do your job, you learn to do it as well as you possibly can.

The U.S.'s information on radar parametrics, platforms and threats is the most comprehensive in the world. This is information we don't even share with our allies. Why not? Well, suppose China wants information on Russia's radars. Just because we know it, doesn't mean we want china to know it. And if we share that information with France, they might not be as tight lipped about it as we are if the price is right.

But because of that tight control of information, very few people outside of an EW module know just how prepared we are. Because of that, there's a good chance that Iran doesn't know just how difficult it would be to launch missiles at our ships, nevermind hit them.

I could be wrong, however. My ship had been painted by an Iranian targeting radar once and I did jam it. they must have some idea how much we can degrade their launch capability.

What kind of missiles? Missiles with a range of only 105 miles? I mean, thats just "whoosh-bang." Can a Navel officer get to his/her battle station, aquire a target and shoot down a missile in such a short time frame? 2 Missiles? 5? 10? 50?

What kind of missiles? Missiles with a range of only 105 miles? I mean, thats just "whoosh-bang. Can a Navel officer get to his/her battle station, aquire a target and shoot down a missile in such a short time frame? 2 Missiles? 5? 10? 50?

Heh. I can keep them from launching at all. :p

Passing through the strait, having intel on what to look for and being alert for the potential threats means that within moments of a targeting radar being detected, I can be jamming it. Then, while they are unable to target us to launch their missiles, our air assets converge on the launch site.

2 minutes is the magic number. Typically, if I can prevent them for launching for 2 minutes, the threat can be neutralized before a missile is even launched.

But even if a missile or two is launched, being as I already know of the threat and it's bearing by detecting the targeting radar, I can begin deception techniques immediately. And more than two or three missiles just doesn't happen. 5 or 10 is highly unlikely. 50 is insane.

Well, at the very least, I hope this is OLD NEWS to Western intelligence agencies.

And more than two or three missiles just doesn't happen. 5 or 10 is highly unlikely. 50 is insane.

Uh oh! Just found this link (http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/International/2006/11/03/2219735-sun.html)

Iran has test-fired dozens of missiles...

Uh oh! Just found this link (http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/International/2006/11/03/2219735-sun.html)
They fired dozens of missiles during maneuvres. That doesn't mean they can shower a ship with dozens of warheads at a time.

If that's the case, then all the young-uns better start getting into shape to be drafted into the military. Iran would be the largest military mission in US history.

How do you figure that ? Unlike World War 2 which to this point is the largest military mission... Iran wouldn't nessesarly require ground troops.. and in fact, ground troops wouldn't even be a prudent choice. Blocades and air strikes would do enough to financially crippel the country until the government collapses.

How do you figure that ? Unlike World War 2 which to this point is the largest military mission... Iran wouldn't nessesarly require ground troops.. and in fact, ground troops wouldn't even be a prudent choice. Blocades and air strikes would do enough to financially crippel the country until the government collapses.

As well as causing the world economy to go tits up while oil prices skyrocket.

As well as causing the world economy to go tits up while oil prices skyrocket.

If Iran fires on and/or destroys a U.S. naval vessel without provocation, you can bet your ass that that fact won't matter one little bit.

Well holy shit, Iran is testing some tactical missiles! INVADE THEM! Only non-Muslim nations can test weaponry!

How do you figure that ? Unlike World War 2 which to this point is the largest military mission... Iran wouldn't nessesarly require ground troops.. and in fact, ground troops wouldn't even be a prudent choice. Blocades and air strikes would do enough to financially crippel the country until the government collapses.

And when, pray tell, has air strikes EVER got the job done?

And when, pray tell, has air strikes EVER got the job done?

9/11.

:eek:

Oops!

:eek:

Wow...105 miles...I'm quaking in me boots.

9/11.

:eek:

Oops!

:eek:

America lost the war? When did that happen?

And when, pray tell, has air strikes EVER got the job done?

Well... it killed the 4th largest army in the world in 1991. Made the ground phase a genuine walk in the park.

Well... it killed the 4th largest army in the world in 1991. Made the ground phase a genuine walk in the park.

And did it get the job done? Who are those soldiers in Iraq right now? Well Jeez-Louise! It's us! Isn't it?

And did it get the job done? Who are those soldiers in Iraq right now? Well Jeez-Louise! It's us! Isn't it?

Depends what you mean by "the job". The objective in Gulf War I was to destroy the Iraqi war machine and force Iraqi forces from Kuwait. That mission was accomplished.

Meh, a nuclear Iran doesn't scare me at all. I doubt it would pose a significant threat to anyone (including Israel).

Meh, a nuclear Iran doesn't scare me at all. I doubt it would pose a significant threat to anyone (including Israel).

I agree. For all the faults of the Iranian government, they are not insane. They just like to blow steam.

North Korea, on the other hand...:(

Wow...105 miles...I'm quaking in me boots.

The Shahab-3 can go 1240 miles. (far enough to deliver a nuke to Israel)
link (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0611030138nov03,1,6246575.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed)
You'll be walking in your boots if a Mid-East nuke war blows up all that oil.:eek:

Depends on what you mean by "the job." The objective in Gulf War I was to destroy the Iraqi war machine and force Iraqui forces from Kuwait. That mission was accomplished

We liberated Kuwait but "the job" is FAR from over as far as the Iraqi war machine goes.

America lost the war? When did that happen?

Right around the time the Patriot Act was signed. :(

Silly little boys playing with their silly military toys. They all do it, the question is who does it first. Congratulations, Kim Jong Il, on setting a trend...

Heh. I can keep them from launching at all. :p

It's something of a pet hobby of mine to think up ways to beat things. I guess that puts us at odds :p


Passing through the strait, having intel on what to look for and being alert for the potential threats means that within moments of a targeting radar being detected, I can be jamming it. Then, while they are unable to target us to launch their missiles, our air assets converge on the launch site.

Don't know about you, but it seems kinda silly to put all your cards on one table. Smart money would be to have multiple targetting radars, with only a small chunk of them being actually linked to launch sites. Or better yet, hidden launch sites well away from any radar facility and connected by armored underground cable.

Or using a 2 stage guidance system with basic navigation radar for initial positioning and actual terminal guidance on the missile once it reaches the target zone. The Soviets developed a swarm type missile if I'm not mistaken waaay back in the 70s which had one missile in the flock acting as leader flying at normal altitudes (200 feet?) with active radar. If it got taken out, another of the flock would take its role. Combine that with silhoutte recognition systems just coming off the line, and I think you'll have a fairly effective missile system.


50 is insane.

For one ship? Yeah. But in the event of an outbreak of war, it's likely that there'll be 100s of the buggers and the target would be something big fat and juicy. Like a carrier fleet.

Right around the time the Patriot Act was signed. :(

Oh yea. Then they spiked the ball with the military commisions act. :(

We liberated Kuwait but "the job" is FAR from over as far as the Iraqi war machine goes.

The Iraqi army was completely destroyed. The job got done.

The Iraqi army was completely destroyed. The job got done.

No. The alliance stoped attacking when Sadamm promised to behave. Then we did the yo-yo thing with weapons inspectors. And just a couple days ago it was estimated that we will be there a minimum of 12-18 more months.

This is fantastic for us! If they keep annoying us we will finally have enough reason to nuke Iran to the dark ages... will teach them to mess with the real powers

The Shahab-3 can go 1240 miles.
Not to mention that the 3B version has a GPS directed maneuverable reentry vehicle, meaning it can change direction in the terminal approach - making it unbelievably difficult to intercept, and almost guaranteeing that it will hit exactly where it's supposed to.

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,730742,00.jpg

Who knows something about missiles? Some of these have little flames (?) coming off from the top of them. Is that just air, or would those be the maneuverable warheads?

Stabilizing rockets?

Stabilizing rockets?
Maybe.

The Shahab 3B has little nozzles (http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/s-3-5.jpg) on the side of the re-entry vehicle. So I'm wondering whether this might be them.

Also, isn't this a great picture? I mean, doesn't it just illustrate our times perfectly? Should go into any "this was 2006" collection:
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,730745,00.jpg

Maybe.

The Shahab 3B has little nozzles (http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/s-3-5.jpg) on the side of the re-entry vehicle. So I'm wondering whether this might be them.


It's more than likely I think. Most land attack missiles need something to keep them stable and facing the correct angle on launch IIRC. Nose mounted jets are one of the more common means of doing so.

As for the picture yeah, I could imagine that on the Time's magazine.

Yes. Some incredible pics there. Thanks for finding them NL.

They fired dozens of missiles during maneuvres. That doesn't mean they can shower a ship with dozens of warheads at a time.

Well it certainly dosn't mean they can't. (with the scales tipping way, way, towards the can side)