NationStates Jolt Archive

Nice to see that there's still some reason out there on the right. John Derbyshire, an often loathesome commentator for the National Review (check out his comments on the sexuality of adolescents as opposed to adults sometimes) says this about the Kerry brouhaha (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YjRkOTEyNzE1ODQwMTQxYTIzMzBhMWZmOTgwMDRhMTA=).

Outrage [John Derbyshire]
...from several readers — and, obviously some of my Corner colleagues — that I would dare to suggest that John Kerry was not slandering our troops.

But he wasn't. He may regard them with contempt (my personal impression is that JK regards most of the human race with contempt); he may despise them; he may think they're dumb crackers; but T-H-A-T-'-S N-O-T W-H-A-T H-E S-A-I-D.

What he said was: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Who is stuck in Iraq? Not the common soldier, who just does a tour of duty, as Kerry himself knows from (sorry to bring it up) experience. Who's stuck in Iraq? George W. Bush is stuck in Iraq. That was the point of Kerry's joke. Which he botched. No fair-minded person, watching Kerry deliver those lines, could think otherwise.

I'm not carrying any water for John Kerry. I wrote this about John Kerry, and a good deal more uncomplimentary stuff besides. I don't like John Kerry. I didn't vote for John Kerry. Truth is truth, though, even when applied to John Kerry. If you can't handle the truth, that's your problem. But fair-mindedness isn't the key when you're dealing with the people who came up with this little number in 2004.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/managed-images/pheart.jpg
Purple Heart Bandaids, from the party that nominated a guy who, even if we give him the greatest benefit of the doubt, dodged combat by getting his dad to pull strings to get him into the Air National Guard, and nominated a VP who got a record 7 deferments to avoid Vietnam service.

Oh yeah, I did say conservatives (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWY1YzAyY2VjZjZhOGQ2ZWQ3YzVhYThjZDMxODgxODk=), didn't I? There's a second. John Cole is a third, though many will discount him since he's openly said he's voting Dem this time because the Republicans have screwed everything up so badly.

Thats.....impressive. I'd figured by now everyone knew that John Kerry hated America. Hmm.

I am glad that some people see it how it was supposed to mean. Far too many people are blowing it up, to divert public attention from the failed leadership in Washington.

Thats.....impressive. I'd figured by now everyone knew that John Kerry hated America. Hmm.

I am glad that some people see it how it was supposed to mean. Far too many people are blowing it up, to divert public attention from the failed leadership in Washington.Well, they've got to try to divert attention. If Republicans are forced to run on their record, they'll be down to about 17 members of Congress. Total.

*begins the slowest slowclap in history*

THis is the kind of politicing I like. There are many people whose views I disagree with...but I don't care if I disagree with you, I don't care if I think you're wrong, I don't care if you espouse viewpoints I think are fundamentally in error, that's your right.

If you are reasonable enough to say "the truth is the truth" without resorting to party line bull, then I have respect for you.

John Kerry is the greatest man since Vlad the impaler!

Yeah and I was listening to conservative talk radio yesterday and they said the same thing. On both sides of the political spectrum there are those who have integrity and are intelectually honest and there are those - Rush, Hannity, IDF, etc... - that are not. They are shills for their party and have no morals and should never lecture others on theirs.

Well, they've got to try to divert attention. If Republicans are forced to run on their record, they'll be down to about 17 members of Congress. Total.


They'd do THAT good? :p

I think we should go back in time and look at some of the GOP jokes...Like GWB makin a joke about 911
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,7369,612355,00.html)
I saw the first plane hit on Tv, and I thought "Man, thats one terrible pilot. -chuckles slightly-


Or how about that one Joke "Mission Accomplished"?

That one still makes me giggle. But no one seems to remember those botched jokes. ;)

Good for him! Because of this, I have now upgraded my opinion of Derbyshire from "complete ass" to "ass, but ass who still retains some shreds of decency and rationality." :)

They'd do THAT good? :p

I think we should go back in time and look at some of the GOP jokes...Like GWB makin a joke about 911
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,7369,612355,00.html)



Or how about that one Joke "Mission Accomplished"?

That one still makes me gigggle. But no one seems to remember those botched jokes. ;)

Or my personal favorite--what happened to those weapons of mass destruction? Are they under here?

Where was the right-wing outrage then?

If Bush, Dick, & Rumsfield won't apolagize for the mistakes in Iraq, then why should Kerry?

I don't care what he said and I don't care what he meant.

All I care about is the effects of the statement on the prospects for stopping the people in power right now, and unfortunately (because Kerry has been doing very well of late) they seem rather negative.

I don't care what he said and I don't care what he meant.

All I care about is the effects of the statement on the prospects for stopping the people in power right now, and unfortunately (because Kerry has been doing very well of late) they seem rather negative.I'm serious when I say I'm not worried about it. The side effect of the Rovian tactics of hyper-partisanship of the last six years is that there are fewer and fewer undecided voters, and these last minute "gaffes" if indeed that's what it is have virtually no effect.

john kerry is one of America's most well known politicians. When he goes anywhere he knows what he's going there for and he knows exactly what he's going to say. He's got speech writers and PR people who plot his every move on stage. If this soldier's thing was truly a mistake, you'd think the people who go to college to make sure senators and presidents sound and look good would have caught this. We all know john kerry hates the military. he testified against his own in vietnam (in his defense...alot vietnam vets were rapists and murder's). I think he said what he meant to say, and although i dont think its 100% innacurate, he should still appoligize.

We all know john kerry hates the military. he testified against his own in vietnam (in his defense...alot vietnam vets were rapists and murder's).

So...lemme get this straight....if you believe they were "rapists and murderers" then wouldn't you concede that testifying against them is a GOOD thing?

I mean really, the sheer idiocy of this statement astounds me. "how dare she go to court and testify against the man that raped her, she must have all men!"

If they did the crimes you yourself admit they did, then they deserved every single BIT of condemnation.

I'm serious when I say I'm not worried about it. The side effect of the Rovian tactics of hyper-partisanship of the last six years is that there are fewer and fewer undecided voters, and these last minute "gaffes" if indeed that's what it is have virtually no effect.

Unless, like some are worried of, he has some huge trump card he hasn't pulled yet, like Bin Laden himself, or knowledge of an upcoming terrorist attack and how to use it to his advantage. Anything could happen, really.

Unless, like some are worried of, he has some huge trump card he hasn't pulled yet, like Bin Laden himself, or knowledge of an upcoming terrorist attack and how to use it to his advantage. Anything could happen, really.

No, he would have used it by now. Otherwise it would be too obvious.

(Unless it gives him an excuse to cancel the election. That would be bad.)

No, he would have used it by now. Otherwise it would be too obvious.

(Unless it gives him an excuse to cancel the election. That would be bad.)

Dunno. He's got a pokerface that makes a brick wall nervous, you can never tell with this guy.

I don't care what he said and I don't care what he meant.

All I care about is the effects of the statement on the prospects for stopping the people in power right now, and unfortunately (because Kerry has been doing very well of late) they seem rather negative.
I think that if one minor gaff by John Kerry can sway the election, it doesn't really say much about the electorate?

The electorate has had 6 years to evaluate complete Republican rule. An awful lot has happened, and I do mean awful, that should be on their minds come Nov. 7, and not one miscue by Kerry.

I think that if one minor gaff by John Kerry can sway the election, it doesn't really say much about the electorate?

No. But this is the same electorate, you will recall, that elected Bush, despite preferring Kerry both before and after the election.

No. But this is the same electorate, you will recall, that elected Bush, despite preferring Kerry both before and after the election.

But with two more years of cynicism added in on top. Think about when gas prices started falling. No matter how much people and pundits tried to put the message out that gas prices are cyclical, the majority of Americans saw it as a cynical attempt to woo voters. That kind of cynicism hardens the average voter against last minute tricks.

Think about when gas prices started falling. No matter how much people and pundits tried to put the message out that gas prices are cyclical, the majority of Americans saw it as a cynical attempt to woo voters.

Not to mention W tried to accuse Clinton/Gore of manipulating gas prices prior to the 2000 election...

Not to mention W tried to accuse Clinton/Gore of manipulating gas prices prior to the 2000 election...Yeah. So few people remember that little bit of information. Imagine the cynicism level if they were reminded of it.

Yeah. So few people remember that little bit of information. Imagine the cynicism level if they were reminded of it.

Hah, don't forget how he kept talking about how "bad" the Clinton economy was...

All the Democrats are doing is using his words against him...and even better, many of the things are true this time around. Bush is just being punished for incompetence, nothing more and nothing less.

No. But this is the same electorate, you will recall, that elected Bush, despite preferring Kerry both before and after the election.
Well, if the electorate keeps electing the same old/same old time and again and expecting a different result, then I suggest that is insanity. Let's hope that sanity prevails on Nov. 7. :)

Hah, don't forget how he kept talking about how "bad" the Clinton economy was...

All the Democrats are doing is using his words against him...and even better, many of the things are true this time around. Bush is just being punished for incompetence, nothing more and nothing less.

For some of us, it's more than incompetence. The MCA was the last straw for me--I've descended into pure, unadulterated anger now. I see that POS legislation as the end of the Republic, especially since I don't trust that the courts will overturn them.

The MCA was the last straw for me--I've descended into pure, unadulterated anger now.

Anger? I've been angry for years, ever since the Iraq War.

The MCA, and the other creeping signs of autocracy, do something beyond angering me - they scare me.

For some of us, it's more than incompetence. The MCA was the last straw for me--I've descended into pure, unadulterated anger now. I see that POS legislation as the end of the Republic, especially since I don't trust that the courts will overturn them.

I don't get angry, because I know that it will end and we will be able to overturn their damage. It just takes time, and the will to achieve it.

For some of us, it's more than incompetence. The MCA was the last straw for me--I've descended into pure, unadulterated anger now. I see that POS legislation as the end of the Republic, especially since I don't trust that the courts will overturn them.
I just noticed this alternative to the "Waffle" thread. Unfortunately, it's another one of those that diverged from it's main point quite a ways back. In fact, it happened even faster here. I guess that must make this a more unstable thread than the one 'bout the waffle king.

Vote issues, not candidates.

But this is the same electorate, you will recall, that elected Bush, despite preferring Kerry both before and after the election.

and if the exit polls are to be believed, during it as well

I don't get angry, because I know that it will end and we will be able to overturn their damage. It just takes time, and the will to achieve it.
What worries me about the MCA is that no President is going to willingly give up that kind of power--it's too tempting, too seductive. It's too easy to convince yourself that you'll never use the power for personal gain.

and if the exit polls are to be believed, during it as well

You forget that the only poll that counts is the one held on election day. Nothing else is binding.

What worries me about the MCA is that no President is going to willingly give up that kind of power--it's too tempting, too seductive. It's too easy to convince yourself that you'll never use the power for personal gain.

That's true...sometimes, the only way to force people to give up that power is to take it from them, through whatever means the political process and the American people deem necessary.

Well, they've got to try to divert attention. If Republicans are forced to run on their record, they'll be down to about 17 members of Congress. Total.

I'm not sure it's working though. We've got Kerry in the news finally looking like he's got some balls. The CNN ticker read "Will not apologize for criticizing president." We've got Iraq on the front pages until the Repubs let Kerry go on this, which it doesn't look like they're going to.

The Repubs are coming off pretty bad on this. But so are a lot of other Democrats who don't realize that Kerry might come out the winner here.

The republicans and the democrats are both stupid. Kerry should have apologised because he was very careless on a statement that would obviously cause shitloads of offence, Bush is an idiot as he believes that the statement was intended to cause offence.

I don't understand how you can defend either of them?

The republicans and the democrats are both stupid. Kerry should have apologised because he was very careless on a statement that would obviously cause shitloads of offence, Bush is an idiot as he believes that the statement was intended to cause offence.

I don't understand how you can defend either of them?You think Bush actually believes what he's saying on this?

You think Bush actually believes what he's saying on this?

agreed, bush may be a lot of things. Lying, manipulative, power crazy, bigoted, racist, homophobic, but I will not jump on the bandwagon to call him an idiot. He's obviously got some intellect. I think he took this as an opportunity to do last minute stump thumping and he's running with it.

I don't believe for a SECOND he doesn't know exactly what was said, but he's going to use any opportunity he can to save a crippled party.

agreed, bush may be a lot of things. Lying, manipulative, power crazy, bigoted, racist, homophobic, but I will not jump on the bandwagon to call him an idiot. He's obviously got some intellect. I think he took this as an opportunity to do last minute stump thumping and he's running with it.

I don't believe for a SECOND he doesn't know exactly what was said, but he's going to use any opportunity he can to save a crippled party.

And even more than Bush, Rove and Mehlman--they saw this as a chance to recast this election as Bush-Kerry, so they had to take it, because the way things stand now, they're facing massive losses. I doubt it will work, largely because Bush 2006 isn't as popular as Bush 2004, which wasn't popular, but was popular enough.

I'm serious when I say I'm not worried about it. The side effect of the Rovian tactics of hyper-partisanship of the last six years is that there are fewer and fewer undecided voters, and these last minute "gaffes" if indeed that's what it is have virtually no effect.

You seriously think that the undecided voter is a thing of the past? I really think these kind of F ups have an effect on the regular public. Maybe you are on Nationstates to much to realize most people do not get into politics as serious as many on here do. I say last minute gaffs and scandals do alot to the electorate. Remember there is a national ADD epidemic. Not only in the US but many nations btw.

You seriously think that the undecided voter is a thing of the past? I really think these kind of F ups have an effect on the regular public. Maybe you are on Nationstates to much to realize most people do not get into politics as serious as many on here do. I say last minute gaffs and scandals do alot to the electorate. Remember there is a national ADD epidemic. Not only in the US but many nations btw.
In a normal year, you'd be right, I think, but this year is unlike any midterm election I've ever seen, and I've seen a few. Not even 1994 was this tense.

Thats.....impressive. I'd figured by now everyone knew that John Kerry hated America. Hmm.

I am glad that some people see it how it was supposed to mean. Far too many people are blowing it up, to divert public attention from the failed leadership in Washington.

I think its funny that people actually take the trouble to try to make John Kerry look like V.I. Lenin in the media.

Hah, don't forget how he kept talking about how "bad" the Clinton economy was...



Yep. So what was it you hated more about the Clinton years? The peace? Or the prosperity?

;)

What do I find funniest about this whole dust-up? Everyone knows that Kerry flubbed his lines, but the partisan shills (whose names around here rhyme with things like YouMusta) insist that the statement must be taken literally at face value.

Well, if we are required to follow that sentiment then we must also assume things like the following relating to GW:

That he wants gynocologists to have regular sex with their patients.

He truly has no interest in capturing Bin Laden.

The best replacement for medicine is.... drug therapy.

That humans and fish CAN coexist peacefully,

That he doesn't believe in planning.

And a list that goes on and on and on and......

That he wants gynocologists to have regular sex with their patients.

Vs Kinky sex or gay sex or gay kinky sex....right ?



So whats wrong with that ?:eek: :p


That he doesn't believe in planning.

Your point being ? :D


The best replacement for medicine is.... drug therapy

helps you forget your sick and cant afford health care .


He truly has no interest in capturing Bin Laden.

Without a doubt true...killing him is much easier and will cuase much less problems.

You forget that the only poll that counts is the one held on election day. Nothing else is binding.

which is a fundamentally silly way to run things

Normal guy.. with one once of political savvy.

as soon as the crap hits the fan and he realizes he made an error.

" hey guys bad joke...this is the way it really went....bammm...he tells his joke . Then he says;

" and let me tell you ...every single person serving in the military or a member of the family ...I apologize if I offended you it was never my intent , I hold you you in the greatest regard and know you are among the best America has to offer and I admire your courage and dedication to duty " .

BAMMMM ...door is closed ....Kerry gets to go on TV and tell his joke to 300,000,000 people...he turns a mistake into an opportunity and actually helps the democrats stay on message.

But instead you get what Kerry did. And his petulant apology and mishandling of the entire incident.

Is their anything else that better illustrates how this dolt lost to George Bush ?

Do you at least see my point here ? he cant handle a simple mistake without letting it turn into a major crisis....and they want him to run for President ???

The real question should be HOW can he win ?

Let me set your mind at ease on one score, US--there aren't very many of us who want him to run again. I didn't like him the first time, and I'm going to do everything I can to make sure he's not the nominee next time.

:D :p

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20061101TroopsMessage.jpg

Awesome!
This is, what? The 5th thread in 2 days on this topic.

We really are going for the record.

Awesome!
This is, what? The 5th thread in 2 days on this topic.

We really are going for the record.And yet, none of them have been merged.

which is a fundamentally silly way to run things
I wouldn't want to see each and every Times, Zogby, or Gallup poll determine which direction government should go. I think election day is enough.