NationStates Jolt Archive

In my studies of the Westminster Confession of Faith, I came across this:

Chapter XVI Section 4

"They who in their obedience attain the greatest height which is possible in this life, are so far from being able to supererogate, and to do more than God requires, as that they fall short of much which in duty they are bound to do."

Here's an every-day English translation as per Infinite Revolution's request:

"Even those who are as perfect as they can be in this world are unable to do more than God has required them to do. Rather they still do much less than God requires."

I never came across this idea fo supererogation before. Apparently, it's the idea that one can do more than what God requires (as the Confession clarifies).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supererogation

Anyway, I would like to know your thoughts on this idea of supererogation. I have to agree with the Confession: I think supererogation is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

I know a lot of you (I might even say most you) reject religion. But, instead of just saying "Religion is stupid," could you please attmept to carry conversation. Example: "I think this is all stupidity, but looking at it from a Christian perspective, I might think that...." That would aid the conversation while making your true beliefs known.

Thank you for not flaming.

That I suppose would depend on what they think God requires.

what do you think God requires?

That I suppose would depend on what they think God requires.

what do you think God requires?

I think God requires all that He has revealed in the Old and New Testaments. What do you think?

So it's like, what... divine bonus points?

In my studies of the Westminster Confession of Faith, I came across this:

Chapter XVI Section 4

"They who in their obedience attain the greatest height which is possible in this life, are so far from being able to supererogate, and to do more than God requires, as that they fall short of much which in duty they are bound to do."

I never came across this before. Apparently, it's the idea that one can do more than what God requires (as the Confession clarifies).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supererogation

Anyway, I would like to know your thoughts on this. I think supererogation is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

I know a lot of you (I might even say most you) reject religion. But, instead of just saying "Religion is stupid," could you please attmept to carry conversation. Example: "I think this is all stupidity, but looking at it from a Christian perspective, I might think that...." That would aid the conversation while making your true beliefs known.

Thank you for not flaming.

maybe i would if you can translate that quote into something resembling plain english. i can't work out what it is trying to say. sounds a bit zen or maybe anti-zen i can't be sure.

My understanding is religion is that it requires you to be good all of the time. I don't think you can do more than that, so it sounds silly

I think it has to do with the idea that while Jesus Christ commanded us to be perfect, it is impossible to actually BE perfect.

So why would He make that command? Because just the effort to improve ourselves, even though we can never become truly perfect, is of great benefit and worth. It is the journey that is its own reward.

maybe i would if you can translate that quote into something resembling plain english. i can't work out what it is trying to say. sounds a bit zen or maybe anti-zen i can't be sure.

Here's an every-day English translation as per Infinite Revolution's request:

"Even those who are as perfect as they can be in this world are unable to do more than God has required them to do. Rather they still do much less than God requires."

I think God requires all that He has revealed in the Old and New Testaments. What do you think?

I think God requires perfection, and that it's impossible to be "more than perfect", we fall short of the requirement and by grace are saved through Christ, the perfect sacrifice.

I'm familiar with the concept of supererogatory behaviour, though I've never seen it applied to religion before.

Supererogatory behaviour is that behaviour which is above and beyond the call of duty. If you are required by some responsibility the perform an action to some degree A, but instead you take it was past A and all the way to C, then you've engaged in supererogation.

Like a Mormon tithing 20% of his income rather than the required 10%.

So, to answer your question, I think it could well be possible to supererogate with regard to what God wants from you (with the expected caveat that I think religion is stupid). Since Christianity recognises that no human can be perfect, God must require something less than perfection from each person. The only way that precludes supererogation is if God requires from each person exactly the very most of which that person is capable, and any possible deviation from that perfect course necessarily results in failure to satisfy God.

If you believe that, then yes suerperogation is absurd. But any other belief I think allows for supererogation.

edit: So by that reasoning, Smunkee believes supererogation impossible (see above).

I think God requires perfection, and that it's impossible to be "more than perfect", we fall short of the requirement and by grace are saved through Christ, the perfect sacrifice.

Okay. I agree with that. I think we know what perfection is through God's Law. That's the only thing I would add.

The fact that most people get married pretty much defines the value of that claim.

Here's an every-day English translation as per Infinite Revolution's request:

"Even those who are as perfect as they can be in this world are unable to do more than God has required them to do. Rather they still do much less than God requires."

ah, righto, thanks. so yeah, this sounds ridiculous. especially since there's so many conflicting messages and interpretations of god's requirements that no one really knows what he wants. i mean, if you went through the entire bible and did everything it said you'd probably end up punching yourself in the face and stamping on your own feet several times.

what do you think God requires?I'd say God requires nothing. He's omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, what else could he need?

Anyway, it's plainly unjust to require more of people than they can give. Asking the impossible is not reasonable.

In my studies of the Westminster Confession of Faith, I came across this:

Chapter XVI Section 4

"They who in their obedience attain the greatest height which is possible in this life, are so far from being able to supererogate, and to do more than God requires, as that they fall short of much which in duty they are bound to do."

Here's an every-day English translation as per Infinite Revolution's request:

"Even those who are as perfect as they can be in this world are unable to do more than God has required them to do. Rather they still do much less than God requires."

I never came across this before. Apparently, it's the idea that one can do more than what God requires (as the Confession clarifies).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supererogation

Anyway, I would like to know your thoughts on this. I think supererogation is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

I know a lot of you (I might even say most you) reject religion. But, instead of just saying "Religion is stupid," could you please attmept to carry conversation. Example: "I think this is all stupidity, but looking at it from a Christian perspective, I might think that...." That would aid the conversation while making your true beliefs known.

Thank you for not flaming.

It doesn't say what you think it says.

It doesn't say it IS possible to 'do more than god requires'... it says, even those who do the absolute most they can, STILL fall way short of doing more than god requires... it then goes on to state that they do less even than they are asked.

It is saying it is impossible to exceed god's requirement. It is saying it is impossible even to meet god's requirement. It is saying that even the best among us are fatally flawed.

It doesn't say what you think it says.

It doesn't say it IS possible to 'do more than god requires'... it says, even those who do the absolute most they can, STILL fall way short of doing more than god requires... it then goes on to state that they do less even than they are asked.

It is saying it is impossible to exceed god's requirement. It is saying it is impossible even to meet god's requirement. It is saying that even the best among us are fatally flawed.

I'm agreeing with the Confession. I disagree with the idea of supererogation, an idea which the Confession is rejecting.

Is my OP confusing?

I'm agreeing with the Confession. I disagree with the idea of supererogation, an idea which the Confession is rejecting.

Is my OP confusing?

Yes, and so is this post I'm responding to.

As far as I can tell, you were saying what do we think of the idea of supererogation... but I don't understand the significance, when it is presented as an impossibility in your source.

The source isn't saying one can supererogate - quite the opposite - so you seem to be asking for opinions on a thing no one is actually arguing...?

Yes, and so is this post I'm responding to.

As far as I can tell, you were saying what do we think of the idea of supererogation... but I don't understand the significance, when it is presented as an impossibility in your source.

The source isn't saying one can supererogate - quite the opposite - so you seem to be asking for opinions on a thing no one is actually arguing...?

I was asking about people's thoughts on supererogation, not about what the Confessions said.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize it was so confusing.

I was asking about people's thoughts on supererogation, not about what the Confessions said.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize it was so confusing.

It's still not clear WHY anyone would have 'thoughts' on supererogation - at least, as it relates to 'god'. That argument was never made - so one wonders what 'thoughts' you might think there would be?

It's still not clear WHY anyone would have 'thoughts' on supererogation - at least, as it relates to 'god'. That argument was never made - so one wonders what 'thoughts' you might think there would be?

I don't understand what your point is.

I said what supererogation is. I asked for thoughts on it. You can say you haven't considered it, you agree, disagree, would like to look into it more, think it does not matter, etc.