NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

A Freudian slip seems to have exposed what Kerry and his fellow Commie-Libs really believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

A Freudian slip seems to have exposed what Kerry and his fellow Commie-Libs really believe.

Go away.

Seems to be the problem with a lot of young people who feel they don't have a future. Not all people join the army for love of country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

A Freudian slip seems to have exposed what Kerry and his fellow Commie-Libs really believe.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=505329

I'm pretty sure we already have a thread about that. The YouTube link is new, but it's the same old cow shit in the other thread.

Go away.

Seconded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

A Freudian slip seems to have exposed what Kerry and his fellow Commie-Libs really believe.

Maybe he was talking about the people who made the stupid decision to send the troops to Iraq in the first place.

Seconded

Can't stand dissenting views?

Move it to Wilgrove's thread.

Can't stand dissenting views?

"Kerry = Douchebag" doesn't qualify as a "dissenting" view. Given the number of verbal gaffs President Bush has committed, you should not be throwing stones inside that nice glass house.

Can't stand dissenting views?

Can't stand snippets taken out of context.

Maybe he was talking about the people who made the stupid decision to send the troops to Iraq in the first place.

It's stupid to be the person sent to Iraq as well...

... anyhoo, what is the deal with this obsession on fellating the military in the US? Really, it's just the military. Not exactly cream of the crop...

Don't you just love a partisan mudsling?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

A Freudian slip seems to have exposed what Kerry and his fellow Commie-Libs really believe.
Kerry = Douchebag...

Really shows your intellectual argument.

It's stupid to be the person sent to Iraq as well...

... anyhoo, what is the deal with this obsession on fellating the military in the US? Really, it's just the military. Not exactly cream of the crop...

No it's not. People make the decision to join the military out of genuinely good motives. They are patriotic, they want to improve themselves, or they want job training and money for college. That's not stupid. It is stupid to send them to die in an unnecessary war.

Can't stand dissenting views?

Can't stand quoting someone out of text, opportunistic mudslinging, and blanket generalizations.

The intellectual veracity of patriotism is a debatable point. While I think what Kerry said was stupid, I doubt that's what he intended. I think his clarification and apology was quite enough. You never hear Bush apologize when he says something monumentally stupid.


That said I think Kerry is a loser. Hell he lost to Bush.

No it's not. People make the decision to join the military out of genuinely good motives. They are patriotic, they want to improve themselves, or they want job training and money for college. That's not stupid.

Actually it is, since the military is probably one of the worst places to achieve those goal.

It is stupid to send them to die in an unnecessary war.

It's stupid to consent to being sent there, as well. "Just following orders" is the crappiest cop out ever.

No it's not. People make the decision to join the military out of genuinely good motives. They are patriotic, they want to improve themselves, or they want job training and money for college. That's not stupid. It is stupid to send them to die in an unnecessary war.

Hey, and the duck comes down with the magic word! "Unnecessary" - there's no reason to have gone to Iraq. Every reason given has been proven false. Of course, now we're there, and the place is a nightmare, we do have an obligation to clean it up, or to help, anyway.

The intellectual veracity of patriotism is a debatable point. While I think what Kerry said was stupid, I doubt that's what he intended. I think his clarification and apology was quite enough. You never hear Bush apologize when he says something monumentally stupid.


That said I think Kerry is a loser. Hell he lost to Bush.

Yeah, think about it for a second: Calling those who join the military stupid would be calling himself stupid. Duh. He was in the military.

Actually it is, since the military is probably on of the worst places to achieve those goal.



It's stupid to consent to being sent there, as well. "Just fallowing orders" is the crappiest cop out ever.

Well that's your opinion, and we disagree. I don't reckon I'm going to change your mind and I know you won't change mine.

Yeah, think about it for a second: Calling those who join the military stupid would be calling himself stupid. Duh. He was in the military.

As a counterpoint, wasn't Kerry drafted?

Well that's your opinion, and we disagree. I don't reckon I'm going to change your mind and I know you won't change mine.

That's a direct way of not defending the indefensible. Kudos.

Hey, and the duck comes down with the magic word! "Unnecessary" - there's no reason to have gone to Iraq. Every reason given has been proven false. Of course, now we're there, and the place is a nightmare, we do have an obligation to clean it up, or to help, anyway.

There is never an obligation to do the impossible. The Iraqi people, or at least enough of the Iraqi people want a civil war. We could ramp up the military presence there and we could undermine the sovereignty of the elected Iraqi government and delay the civil war, but we can't stay there forever.

That's a direct way of not defending the indefensible. Kudos.

Serving one's country isn't indefensible. The blame lies with the leaders who started the war. Even in WWII the German troops weren't judged to be criminals, only their leaders.

As a counterpoint, wasn't Kerry drafted?

Nope, he had a college deferral but volunteered.

There is never an obligation to do the impossible. The Iraqi people, or at least enough of the Iraqi people want a civil war. We could ramp up the military presence there and we could undermine the sovereignty of the elected Iraqi government and delay the civil war, but we can't stay there forever.

I didn't mean forever, not by any means. I liked the McGovern plan that was in Harper's October issue. It had the troops out by the end of next June. We'd kick in around, oh, I think 25 billion to pay for various things to help get them on their feet. That would be 100 days cost at the current rate of about 250 million bucks a day (a bit over 10 million an hour).

Serving one's country isn't indefensible.

It is when the actions of your country are despicable.

The blame lies with the leaders who started the war. Even in WWII the German troops weren't judged to be criminals, only their leaders.

Actually, "I was following orders and serving my country" not being an excuse for atrocious behaviour is what the Nürnberg trials established once and for all.

I didn't mean forever, not by any means. I liked the McGovern plan that was in Harper's October issue. It had the troops out by the end of next June. We'd kick in around, oh, I think 25 billion to pay for various things to help get them on their feet. That would be 100 days cost at the current rate of about 250 million bucks a day (a bit over 10 million an hour).

I didn't see the article. I read Hustler, not Harper's.

It is when the actions of your country are despicable.



Actually, "I was following orders and serving my country" not being an excuse for atrocious behaviour is what the Nürnberg trials established once and for all.

It established that for the leaders and those who ran death camps. Not for ordinary soldiers.

It established that for the leaders and those who ran death camps. Not for ordinary soldiers.

incorrect

It established that for the leaders and those who ran death camps. Not for ordinary soldiers.

Actually, it did - it seems like you think the IMT was the only trial that went on at Nürnberg, apparently completely omitting the NMT. You may also want to check out the tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, for instance, or the one for Rwanda for more recent jurisprudence that's gone on. But then again, this is not solely about legal responsibility - this is of course more about personal responsibility, and fighting the US's dirty little wars is not exactly an honourable action for which one gets to say "they sent me there, and all the people I killed, I've no responsibility for."

It's been done -- and much better, may I add.

THE ONION IN HISTORY

Bottom 10 Percent Of Last Year's Graduating Class Ready To Take On Saddam
September 20, 1990

With Saddam Hussein defiantly refusing to pull out of Kuwait, the bottom 10 percent of America's high-school graduating class of 1990 is making final preparations to take on the Iraqi army.

President Bush has already deployed 5,000 19-year-olds with below-average math skills to the Gulf, and has pledged an additional 15,000 D-students if necessary.

"Those Iraqis better watch out, because Fifth Infantry is ready for a fight," said Robert Hamm, 18, who finally passed his required history course last spring after four tries, just barely graduating from his Beaver Dam, WI, high school.

"The U.S. doesn't stand for aggression in the Middle East," said Chad Sterling, who graduated 163rd in his class of 167, ahead of four developmentally disabled students receiving attendance diplomas. "Even though I'm needed on the home front -- like, at my job, they're having a big chicken-sandwich promotion right now -- serving my country is more important to me."

Sterling is a member of the 157th Infantry Division, a tactical unit stationed near the Kuwait-Saudi Arabia border composed of recruits fresh out of 12th-grade shop classes across the nation.

U.S. peacekeeping forces will remain on standby until given further orders -- a difficult task, considering the limited attention span of most of the academically underachieving troops.

"The United States military is a defender of freedom," said U.S. General Norman Schwarzkopf. "It is also a catch-all for those high-school seniors who don't want to work at a gas station but don't have the grades to get into their local technical college.

"My country needs me," said Kip Hooper, 18, who was lured into the army by a colorful filmstrip shown by a recruiter assigned to the Trenton, NJ, public-school system. "Besides, I don't really have anything much better to do right now, since I got fired from Corn Dog King on account of how I couldn't never press them buttons right."

It's been done -- and much better, may I add.

Funny, because it's probably close to the truth.

Does anyone have a link that gives that actual context of Kerry's remark?

Actually, it did - it seems like you think the IMT was the only trial that went on at Nürnberg, apparently completely omitting the NMT. You may also want to check out the tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, for instance, or the one for Rwanda for more recent jurisprudence that's gone on. But then again, this is not solely about legal responsibility - this is of course more about personal responsibility, and fighting the US's dirty little wars is not exactly an honourable action for which one gets to say "they sent me there, and all the people I killed, I've no responsibility for."

I didn't know that. That's kind of fucked up in my opinion. A soldier is supposed to follow orders unless they're very clearly unethical. If he's asked to fight in a war he doesn't believe in he should still fight. If he's asked to torture or something, I can see how he should be expected to disobey.

Funny, because it's probably close to the truth.
Look at the militant supporters of Bush, who would actually sign up for the army.

I would agree with you on this one.

Look at the militant supporters of Bush, who would actually sign up for the army.

Hold on, I'm still looking. Wait... wait... can I have a hint?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

A Freudian slip seems to have exposed what Kerry and his fellow Commie-Libs really believe.

That intentional post seems to have exposed what you really believe. :rolleyes:


Things are so much clearer now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

A Freudian slip seems to have exposed what Kerry and his fellow Commie-Libs really believe.

Versus your President who decided to fight the war on the cheap. Why give the troops armored vehicles and body armor when you can give a huge amount of money to "contractors"

Versus your President who decided to fight the war on the cheap. Why give the troops armored vehicles and body armor when you can give a huge amount of money to "contractors"
Because the troops can defer Rumsfeld to war crimes trials, whereas 'private security forces' can't?

Sometimes the truth isn't pleasant.

Our volunteer army has a 'backdoor draft' - for some people, it's the only good work to be found.

Very, VERY politically incorrect to say anything at all about 'the troops' though nowadays, so the PC police will have a field day with this.

Don't you just love a partisan mudsling?

Especially in a case where it's a nobody like Kerry being slung mud at. It's like me pointing and laughing at Republicans because of Nixon... or the old, Clinton-bashing crowd.

Funny, because it's probably close to the truth.

The myth that the US military is a bunch of half-wits is an absolutely erroneous assumption.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda06-09.cfm

For example, 98% of US military recruits from 2004-2005 graduated from high school, whereas the youth population rate as a whole is 75%

The study also dispels other myths that exist, such as the 'disproportional representation' of minorities, poor, etc.

Comments like these have no basis in fact.

Many people, such as myself, did in fact improve themselves through the US military, in response to the earlier post of 'that's probably the worst place to do it'.

Your comments are insulting and incorrect. I do notice that you use the word 'probably' in those posts; I hope that you see now that you are wrong.

The myth that the US military is a bunch of half-wits is an absolutely erroneous assumption.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda06-09.cfm



Hmmm A conservative thinktank.......no bias there.........

Hmmm A conservative thinktank.......no bias there.........

The numbers aren't biased. They're from the census data, etc.

And yes, it is a conservative think-tank; however, unless you have data to contradict the study, or can demonstate a flaw in the methodology, I'll take that comment for what it is - an ad hominem attack. Which does nothing to prove that the study is wrong.

The numbers aren't biased. They're from the census data, etc.

And yes, it is a conservative think-tank; however, unless you have data to contradict the study, or can demonstate a flaw in the methodology, I'll take that comment for what it is - an ad hominem attack. Which does nothing to prove that the study is wrong.

Isn't it pretty much a requirement to have a high school diploma or equivalent:

"What are the minimum educational requirements to enlist in the Military?
Success in any branch of the Military depends on a good education, and a high school diploma is most desirable. Candidates with a GED can enlist, but some services may limit opportunities. It is very difficult to be considered a serious candidate without either a high school diploma or accepted alternative credential. In any case, staying in school is important for entering the Military."
http://www.todaysmilitary.com/app/tm/faq/entrance#education

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

A Freudian slip seems to have exposed what Kerry and his fellow Commie-Libs really believe.

Hm, you should learn something:

Communism is total different to libertism. You show your intellectual capacity with such "arguments"...

Isn't it pretty much a requirement to have a high school diploma or equivalent:

Yes, it pretty much is. As the 98% figure would demonstrate.

Your point being?

Yes, it pretty much is. As the 98% figure would demonstrate.

Your point being?

Its kind of like saying 99% of lawyers have gone to law school as opposed to the 96% of people not practicing law who haven't.

Its kind of like saying 99% of lawyers have gone to law school as opposed to the 96% of people not practicing law who haven't.

Given that I produced the figure to contradict the apparent assumption of the US military being 'uneducated', etc., I think my point is valid.

My guess is that 100% of NS users own a computer. Which is a useless statement, as is yours.

Do you have any data to back up the assertion that I am incorrect, or that the study is invalid?

Given that I produced the figure to contradict the apparent assumption of the US military being 'uneducated', etc., I think my point is valid.

My guess is that 100% of NS users own a computer. Which is a useless statement, as is yours.

Do you have any data to back up the assertion that I am incorrect, or that the study is invalid?
The study itself seems valid. I think that the idea that a GED or having only a high school education is equivalent to being educated is not at all a valid statement, at least in many cases.

It’s true. Most everyone I know who has joined the military or plans to is doing it for economic reason. They just aren’t prepared to do anything else.

I even don’t think was a Freudian slip

As a counterpoint, wasn't Kerry drafted?

No.

February 18, 1966:
A senior at Yale, Kerry commits to enlist in the Navy.

February, 1968:
A senior at Yale, Bush takes an Air Force officers test. He scores in 25th percentile in the pilot aptitude portion, and declares that he does not wish to serve overseas.

December, 1967:
Kerry is assigned as an Ensign to the guided-missile frigate USS Gridley. After five-months aboard, he returns to San Diego to undergo training to command a Swift boat, used by the Navy for patrols in Vietnam.

May 27, 1968:
Bush enlists in Texas Air National Guard. Aided by Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes, he jumps over waiting list. He pledges two years of active duty and four years of reserve duty.

June, 1968:
Kerry is promoted to Lieutenant.

June 9, 1968:
Bush's student deferment expires.

November 17, 1968:
Kerry arrives in Vietnam, where he is given command of Swift boat No. 44, operating in the Mekong Delta.

September 1968:
After basic training, Bush pulls inactive duty to act as gopher on Florida Senator Edward J. Gurney's campaign.

January, 1969:
Kerry takes command of a new Swift boat, completing 18 missions over 48 days, almost all in the Mekong Delta area.

November 1968:
After Gurney wins, Bush is reactivated and transferred to Georgia.

February 20, 1969:
Kerry is wounded again, taking shrapnel in the left thigh, after a gunboat battle. He is awarded a second Purple Heart.

November 1969:
Bush is flown to the White House by President Nixon for a date with daughter Tricia.

February 28, 1969:
Kerry and his boat crew, coming under attack while patroling in the Mekong Delta, decide to counterattack. In the middle of the ensuing firefight, Kerry leaves his boat, pursues a Viet Cong fighter into a small hut, kills him, and retreives a rocket launcher. He is awarded a Silver Star.

December 1969:
Bush transfers to Houston and moves into Chateaux Dijon complex. Laura lives there too, but they don't meet till later.




I could go on...

For clarification:

Actually, everybody in this thread has it all wrong including the OP. When you take it in context you realize what he meant. They played the surrounding minutes of the speech on the radio this morning and it was a series of jokes about the various blunders of the Bush administration. What Kerry was saying in this particular passage should be translated, "If you are stupid and spend your college years partying and being a dumb ass you will end up getting the country stuck in a quagmire in Iraq." The insult, when taken in context, wasn't about soldiers being stuck in Iraq, it was about that really stupid guy who spent his college years drinking like a fish, the seventies and eighties failing at every business venture he ever tried and snorting rails of coke off the bathroom counters at Camp David, ended up becoming president because of stupid people being easily manipulated by Karl Rove and then gettng himself stuck in Iraq.

The study itself seems valid. I think that the idea that a GED or having only a high school education is equivalent to being educated is not at all a valid statement, at least in many cases.

I believe it does. I believe that it means you have a level of education equivalent or superior to that which most people have.

I'll grant you that having a GED/HS diploma in itself doesn't mean that you're necessarily smart (not to put words in your mouth, but I think that's what you meant.). But then again, having a ph.D doesn't necessarily make you smart, either.

The purpose of my initial rant was to dispel the incorrect notion that the US military is a bunch of dolts, which is the theme that I seem to be picking up on here, and elsewhere.

I suppose that it hits a little too close to home for me. I'll try to calm down.

(takes deep breath)

OK, where were we?

No.

I was already corrected on that. And I honestly didn't need a timeline. A simple "no" would have sufficed.

It’s true. Most everyone I know who has joined the military or plans to is doing it for economic reason. They just aren’t prepared to do anything else.

I even don’t think was a Freudian slip

Most everyone I know, including myself, those who served when I served (been out for 5 years), and those who serve now (and I'll go out on a limb and say I know more that most people here), joined for a myriad of reasons, including economic. Yes, if my last name were Hilton, I probably never would have joined. Which means that I would have missed out on one of the greatest experiences of my life.

I was already corrected on that. And I honestly didn't need a timeline. A simple "no" would have sufficed.

The time line's important. Not necessarily for you, but I want anyone here defending Bush and attacking Kerry to see their military records side by side.

The time line's important. Not necessarily for you, but I want anyone here defending Bush and attacking Kerry to see their military records side by side.

I may have missed it, but I didn't see anyone here defending Bush.

I, personally, am sticking up for the soldiers.

I may have missed it, but I didn't see anyone here defending Bush.

I, personally, am sticking up for the soldiers.

Why? Did someone say something bad about soldiers? :confused: I'm aware of someone saying that if you're stupid you might do something stupid like end up starting a war in Iraq and getting stuck in it, but I'm not aware of anyone attacking teh actual soldiers fighting that war...

Kerry = Douchebag

And you just now figured this out? :rolleyes:

Why? Did someone say something bad about soldiers? :confused: I'm aware of someone saying that if you're stupid you might do something stupid like end up starting a war in Iraq and getting stuck in it, but I'm not aware of anyone attacking teh actual soldiers fighting that war...

The Onion article implies that the military is full of idiots (e.g. 'bottom ten percent' schtick).

The Swede poster made numerous comments, such as 'not exactly the cream of the crop'.

Yes, I think *someone* was talking smack about the soldiers.

For clarification:

Actually, everybody in this thread has it all wrong including the OP. When you take it in context you realize what he meant. They played the surrounding minutes of the speech on the radio this morning and it was a series of jokes about the various blunders of the Bush administration. What Kerry was saying in this particular passage should be translated, "If you are stupid and spend your college years partying and being a dumb ass you will end up getting the country stuck in a quagmire in Iraq." The insult, when taken in context, wasn't about soldiers being stuck in Iraq, it was about that really stupid guy who spent his college years drinking like a fish, the seventies and eighties failing at every business venture he ever tried and snorting rails of coke off the bathroom counters at Camp David, ended up becoming president because of stupid people being easily manipulated by Karl Rove and then gettng himself stuck in Iraq.

thats why the op claimed it was a freudian slip. he knew it was just a gaff, not a joke at the expense of our military men and women serving in iraq.

the conservative talk show hosts are so desperate they have jumped on the story as if john kerry were running for something. as if anyone cares about anything john kerry has to say. as if john kerry saying it made it the opinion of every democrat running for office today.

too bad they dont have something important to talk about. like the issues.

BTW - Does anyone think that this is more than just a cooincidence? :confused:

January 1971:
The Texas Air National Guard begins testing for drugs during physicals.

August 1972:
Bush is grounded for missing a mandatory physical.

November 1972:
Bush returns to Houston, but never reports for Guard duty.

December 1972:
In D.C. for the holidays, Bush takes 16-year-old brother Marvin drinking and driving. Confronted by father, Bush suggests they settle it "mano a mano."

October 1, 1973:
The Air National Guard relieves Bush from commitment eight months early, allowing him to attend Harvard Business School.

It's stupid to be the person sent to Iraq as well...

... anyhoo, what is the deal with this obsession on fellating the military in the US? Really, it's just the military. Not exactly cream of the crop...

This one seems to take a shot at the solders. As does the Onion article. In fact, this was the post that started my rant.

The Onion article implies that the military is full of idiots (e.g. 'bottom ten percent' schtick).

The Swede poster made numerous comments, such as 'not exactly the cream of the crop'.

Yes, I think *someone* was talking smack about the soldiers.

Okay. I thought this thread was about John Kerry.

BTW - Does anyone think that this is more than just a cooincidence? :confused:

January 1971:
The Texas Air National Guard begins testing for drugs during physicals.

August 1972:
Bush is grounded for missing a mandatory physical.

November 1972:
Bush returns to Houston, but never reports for Guard duty.

December 1972:
In D.C. for the holidays, Bush takes 16-year-old brother Marvin drinking and driving. Confronted by father, Bush suggests they settle it "mano a mano."

October 1, 1973:
The Air National Guard relieves Bush from commitment eight months early, allowing him to attend Harvard Business School.

I can't say I smell a fish here, but that's because my nose is stuffed up. I can definitely see something though... :eek:

Okay. I thought this thread was about John Kerry.

Yeah, you're right. I'm ranting. I'm not on topic. As such, I shall banish myself for the time being.

I apologize for any inconvenience. I just got rankled.

Goodnight.

I believe it does. I believe that it means you have a level of education equivalent or superior to that which most people have.

I'll grant you that having a GED/HS diploma in itself doesn't mean that you're necessarily smart (not to put words in your mouth, but I think that's what you meant.). But then again, having a ph.D doesn't necessarily make you smart, either.

The purpose of my initial rant was to dispel the incorrect notion that the US military is a bunch of dolts, which is the theme that I seem to be picking up on here, and elsewhere.

I suppose that it hits a little too close to home for me. I'll try to calm down.

(takes deep breath)

OK, where were we?
I don't think Kerry meant that but I certainly don't mean that. All I have is a high school education but because of my choices in life, I consider myself at least fairly educated. I'm sure many in the army hold themselves in the same regard. My argument was that a high school education does not equal "educated" and that many who find themselves, for whatever reason (financial, educational, due to society, etc.) join the army to get a jump on their future which otherwise would have led nowhere. And in many cases, if you get stationed in Iraq, that life will lead nowhere, anyway.

The intellectual veracity of patriotism is a debatable point. While I think what Kerry said was stupid, I doubt that's what he intended. I think his clarification and apology was quite enough. You never hear Bush apologize when he says something monumentally stupid.


That said I think Kerry is a loser. Hell he lost to Bush.

Actually I never heard an apology out of Mr. Kerry, what I did hear was how Bush was using the troops, and how he was attacking them, what I did hear was Mr. Kerry trying to turn his inability to read back to the President.

Actually I never heard an apology out of Mr. Kerry, what I did hear was how Bush was using the troops, and how he was attacking them, what I did hear was Mr. Kerry trying to turn his inability to read back to the President.

If you insist on calling Bush "the President" then give the man what he is due. It's President Bush and Senator (or Congressman) Kerry, not Mr. Kerry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

A Freudian slip seems to have exposed what Kerry and his fellow Commie-Libs really believe.

And Lurch wonders why he's on the outside looking into the White House.

If you insist on calling Bush "the President" then give the man what he is due. It's President Bush and Senator (or Congressman) Kerry, not Mr. Kerry.

I can address people however I want ok, stop dodging the issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

A Freudian slip seems to have exposed what Kerry and his fellow Commie-Libs really believe.

By starting this thread you are only proving the very point Kerry was making about education (or lack there of)

Its an un-PC thing to say, but it is true.

The fact of the matter is, a lot of people who join the army arent intellectuals, they join the military to have a career that doesnt require college.

He may as well have said "do well in school or you'll get stuck in vocational school instead of college." The armed forces serve as a vocational school for a lot of people. People for whom university is not the best option.

If you insist on calling Bush "the President" then give the man what he is due. It's President Bush and Senator (or Congressman) Kerry, not Mr. Kerry.

Actually it's The Shrub and Mr. Kerry.......

Its an un-PC thing to say, but it is true.

The fact of the matter is, a lot of people who join the army arent intellectuals, they join the military to have a career that doesnt require college.

He may as well have said "do well in school or you'll get stuck in vocational school instead of college." The armed forces serve as a vocational school for a lot of people. People for whom university is not the best option.

and yet, the people in the military are smarter than the average population, curious.

and yet, the people in the military are smarter than the average population, curious.

Not everyone who isnt fit for university has the presence of mind to join the military. ;)

I can address people however I want ok, stop dodging the issues.

Umm...the hell? What "issues" am I supposedly dodging? All I'm saying is that if you wish to address one individeual by his proper title you should address both of them. Your choice not to, just shows your immaturity is all.

and yet, the people in the military are smarter than the average population, curious.

Source?

Actually I never heard an apology out of Mr. Kerry, what I did hear was how Bush was using the troops, and how he was attacking them, what I did hear was Mr. Kerry trying to turn his inability to read back to the President.

what does he have to apologize for?


My statement yesterday -- and the White House knows this full well -- was a botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops. The White House's attempt to distort my true statement is a remarkable testament to their abject failure in making America safe. It's a stunning statement about their willingness to reduce anything America, the raw politics. It's their willingness to distort, their willingness to mislead Americans, their willingness to exploit the troops as they have so many times at backdrops, at so many speeches in which they have not told the American people the truth.

I'm not going to stand for it. What our troops deserve is a winning strategy, and what they deserve is leadership that is up to the sacrifice that they're making. Sadly, this is the best that this administration can do in a month when we have lost 100 young men and women who have given their lives for a failed policy. Over half the names on the Vietnam wall were put there after our leaders knew that our policy was wrong, and it was wrong that leaders were quiet then, and I'm not going to be quiet now. This is a textbook Republican campaign strategy: try to change the topic, try to make someone else the issue, try to make something else said the issue, not the policy, not their responsibility.

"In a recent study by National Geographic, 63 percent of students could not locate war-torn Iraq -- on a specific map of only the Middle East. Half of the students could not locate India -- on a map of Asia's continent. And 75 percent of students could not locate Israel on a map of the Middle East. "
http://www.thinkandask.com/2006/050506-stupid.html

"In a recent study by National Geographic, 63 percent of students could not locate war-torn Iraq -- on a specific map of only the Middle East. Half of the students could not locate India -- on a map of Asia's continent. And 75 percent of students could not locate Israel on a map of the Middle East. "
http://www.thinkandask.com/2006/050506-stupid.html

and what's that have to say about the education of soldiers?

and what's that have to say about the education of soldiers?

Thats what I'd like to know.

what does he have to apologize for?

I'll show ya.

My statement yesterday -- and the White House knows this full well -- was a botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops.

Could've fooled us.

The White House's attempt to distort my true statement is a remarkable testament to their abject failure in making America safe. It's a stunning statement about their willingness to reduce anything America, the raw politics.

Actually the White House didn't have to do much on this one Mr. Kerry, you did this one yourself, first you said it was a botched joke, and then you said the White House distort your true statement, so, umm who's fault is it? Yours or the White House? Can we say "flip flop" boys and girls?

It's their willingness to distort, their willingness to mislead Americans, their willingness to exploit the troops as they have so many times at backdrops, at so many speeches in which they have not told the American people the truth.

Eh, that I can agree with.

I'm not going to stand for it. What our troops deserve is a winning strategy, and what they deserve is leadership that is up to the sacrifice that they're making. Sadly, this is the best that this administration can do in a month when we have lost 100 young men and women who have given their lives for a failed policy.


Weren't you for withdrawing troops in 2004, doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.


Over half the names on the Vietnam wall were put there after our leaders knew that our policy was wrong, and it was wrong that leaders were quiet then, and I'm not going to be quiet now. This is a textbook Republican campaign strategy: try to change the topic, try to make someone else the issue, try to make something else said the issue, not the policy, not their responsibility.

Yea, damn those GOP, Goddammit we don't do that ourselves, now let's talk about those pesky election machine, the damn GOP are going to steal the elections again, any plans?

I think Mr. Kerry should apologize for insulting our men and women in uniform, regardless if it's a blotched joke or not, and I think he should owe up to it, he was the one that created the blotched joke, not the White House as he claim. If he apologize, all of this actually would be done and over with, but since he hasn't, the march goes on.

Somebody sent me Kerry's response to this:


"If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.

I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq . It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.

The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.

Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they're afraid to debate real men. And this time it won't work because we're going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions. No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq ."

Source?

http://www.dod.gov/prhome/poprep2004/summary/summary.html

First paragraph under education level is probably the most clear

The only man the Democrats could have picked to lose to Bush ..outside of Dean...he is determined to do his best to lose them the 2006 elections and he isn't even running.....what a fucking asshole !

How dumb as dirt can you be ? And then make it worse by not making a simple apology ???:eek: :eek:


Is he being PAID by Karl Rove ???:eek:


OMG what a total fuck up...days before an important and very close election that will depend on turnout.

That asshole just reminded every republican and independent WHY its a bad idea to have assholes like him get elected...and they will NOW come out as very pissed voters ..just becuase he's too fucking dumb to make a simple apology...

WTF is wrong with this party ??? Its like they are commited to losing.... I give up.

Friggin santorum is gaining in the polls...and this asshole has to remind people what a moron(kerry) he is.

Senator Kerry

I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq . It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.

Copied because it is great

+10000000

I'll show ya.



Could've fooled us.



Actually the White House didn't have to do much on this one Mr. Kerry, you did this one yourself, first you said it was a botched joke, and then you said the White House distort your true statement, so, umm who's fault is it? Yours or the White House? Can we say "flip flop" boys and girls?



Eh, that I can agree with.



Weren't you for withdrawing troops in 2004, doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.




Yea, damn those GOP, Goddammit we don't do that ourselves, now let's talk about those pesky election machine, the damn GOP are going to steal the elections again, any plans?

I think Mr. Kerry should apologize for insulting our men and women in uniform, regardless if it's a blotched joke or not, and I think he should owe up to it, he was the one that created the blotched joke, not the White House as he claim. If he apologize, all of this actually would be done and over with, but since he hasn't, the march goes on.

gee i missed it. what does he need to apologize for?

should he apologize because rush limbaugh is having orgasms over repeating a gaff and gleefully insisting that it represents the thoughts of all democrats? does he have to apologize for george bush making speeches claiming that democrats hate our troops?

if its a bad thing then WHY are the republicans repeating it over and over again? its a messed up joke in a minor speech in a governors race in california. NO ONE would have heard of it if the republicans werent repeating it. if there is damage being done to our troops. george, sean and rush are doing it. not john kerry.

and WHY are they gleefully repeating a gaff? because it takes attention away from reality. that 103 americans died in iraq this month. that our iraq war plan is a miserable failure. that they just announced the need to train 100,000 more iraqi security personelle which means that OUR guys have to stay that much longer.

Senator Kerry

I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq . It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.

Copied because it is great

+10000000

I want Kerry to keep on his current course. As the poster above you pointed out, it's going to help the Republicans. I'm applauding you Kerry!!! Keep on being a douche in this situation!!! Help us retain control of the House and Senate!!!

"Kerry = Douchebag" doesn't qualify as a "dissenting" view. Given the number of verbal gaffs President Bush has committed, you should not be throwing stones inside that nice glass house.

Yes, considering Bush then said, "Our troops are plenty smart." Would someone please teach him the proper use of grammar in the English Language?

Quoth the sage, the prophet:

"The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

Truer words seldom spoken.

http://www.dod.gov/prhome/poprep2004/summary/summary.html

First paragraph under education level is probably the most clear

It says there are more people in the army with high school degrees than the average civilian population.

It does not say that it is a better educated group overall however. In fact considering that statement is conspicuously lacking suggests that it might not be true.

The question remains to be seen, is the average armed forces individual better or worse educated than the average civilian. Not who has more high school graduates.

Quoth the sage, the prophet:

"The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

Truer words seldom spoken.

Yeah. It's really very sad. Truth is, maybe there needs to be an educational requirement for voting. I don't know what the answer is, but we are in very deep trouble because we have an obvious, and I mean OBVIOUS, moron running the country. It's scary.

It says there are more people in the army with high school degrees than the average civilian population.

It does not say that it is a better educated group overall however. In fact considering that statement is conspicuously lacking suggests that it might not be true.

The question remains to be seen, is the average armed forces individual better or worse educated than the average civilian. Not who has more high school graduates.

Actually it says there are a higher percentage of people w/ high school diplomas which does say that they are better educated. Also, if you kept reading you would find that military personel perform better on standerdized tests than civilians and also have on avg., better reading comprehension.

Actually it says there are a higher percentage of people w/ high school diplomas which does say that they are better educated.

No it does not.

It says there is a higher percentage of people with high school diplomas.

That does NOT mean that they are, as a whole, better educated.

I'll ask again, what is the average education level of a person in the armed forces? What is the average education level of a civilian?

gee i missed it. what does he need to apologize for?

I just told you, for insulting our men and women in uniform by basically telling them that they're there because they failed at school, God forbid they should join up for any other reason, because according to Mr. Kerry, if you were smart and paid attention in school, you would be smart enough to avoid the military.


should he apologize because rush limbaugh is having orgasms over repeating a gaff and gleefully insisting that it represents the thoughts of all democrats? does he have to apologize for george bush making speeches claiming that democrats hate our troops?

Neither Limbaugh or Bush has to do much on this one, Kerry done most of the legwork here.


if its a bad thing then WHY are the republicans repeating it over and over again? its a messed up joke in a minor speech in a governors race in california. NO ONE would have heard of it if the republicans werent repeating it. if there is damage being done to our troops. george, sean and rush are doing it. not john kerry.

It's a bad thing because he basically insulted our men and women in uniform.

and WHY are they gleefully repeating a gaff? because it takes attention away from reality. that 103 americans died in iraq this month. that our iraq war plan is a miserable failure. that they just announced the need to train 100,000 more iraqi security personelle which means that OUR guys have to stay that much longer.

At least they're taking steps to secure the country so that it can defend itself without our help, and as for American troops dying in Iraq, guess what, this is a war, and when you are in war people always die, at least our men and women have weapons to fight back with.

I just told you, for insulting our men and women in uniform by basically telling them that they're there because they failed at school,

And had you bothered to read you would have realized, by now, that this is not what he said.

However, ya know...don't let the facts get in the way of your righteous indignation and moral superiority, wouldn't be a good republican if you did that

Who can honestly say they give a flying fuck about this contrived, steaming pile of horse-shit anyway? Other than the OP, naturally.

And had you bothered to read you would have realized, by now, that this is not what he said.

However, ya know...don't let the facts get in the way of your righteous indignation and moral superiority, wouldn't be a good republican if you did that

It doesn't matter what he "ment" to say, all that matter is what he did say. Also notice, that when you watch the YouTube clip, usually you can tell when someone is telling a joke, and you'd hear laughing in the audience. Did not get either one with this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

"In our education, if you make the most if it, study hard, do your homework, and if you make an effort to be smart, you can do well, if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."

Well of course now I see the joke, ha ha ha, of course, the joke is that Kerry, just like Bush is a spoiled rich kid with his silver spoon so far up his ass he messes up his speech like Bush does.

Bah to both rich spoiled brats.

I just told you, for insulting our men and women in uniform by basically telling them that they're there because they failed at school, God forbid they should join up for any other reason, because according to Mr. Kerry, if you were smart and paid attention in school, you would be smart enough to avoid the military.



Neither Limbaugh or Bush has to do much on this one, Kerry done most of the legwork here.



It's a bad thing because he basically insulted our men and women in uniform.



At least they're taking steps to secure the country so that it can defend itself without our help, and as for American troops dying in Iraq, guess what, this is a war, and when you are in war people always die, at least our men and women have weapons to fight back with.

no reallly kerry DIDNT diss the troops.

IF its a bad thing to insult our troops then its VERY bad to pretend that a joke against the president was intended to insult our troops and then REPEAT this supposed insult over and over again. that falls directly on the shoulders of rush limbaugh, george bush, sean hannity and the rest of the republican tools.

yes we are in a useless war started by george bush. no one can escape noticing that its our men and women in the military in iraq who have to pay for his mistake.

Given that I produced the figure to contradict the apparent assumption of the US military being 'uneducated', etc., I think my point is valid.

My guess is that 100% of NS users own a computer. Which is a useless statement, as is yours.

Do you have any data to back up the assertion that I am incorrect, or that the study is invalid?

Note I am not debating, just point out flaws-

The fact that 98% have diplomas is actually irrelevant, as it is a requirement(or an equivalent education for that matter). Everyone has one.

However, what would be pertinent as to whether they are "uneducated"(Note, just getting a diploma does not mean you are educated, as all your really have to do is go to school most days of the week) is the percentile of which they graduated, and how well they performed. This would give a more ideal measure of the amount of education one has had, or has retained. So, showing where those how those enlisted performed would be a greater measure than those whom have a diploma.

no reallly kerry DIDNT diss the troops.

No where in his comment did I hear anything about Bush, or about Bush's younger days, and until someone produces that part of the speech, this is all we have to go on.


IF its a bad thing to insult our troops then its VERY bad to pretend that a joke against the president was intended to insult our troops and then REPEAT this supposed insult over and over again. that falls directly on the shoulders of rush limbaugh, george bush, sean hannity and the rest of the republican tools.

Actually they're just replaying what Kerry said, but why shouldn't they replay it? It is true that they shouldn't replay it since it is an insult to our troops, but I wonder if there's something more, maybe the Democrats don't want to be reminded of this egg on their face?

yes we are in a useless war started by george bush. no one can escape noticing that its our men and women in the military in iraq who have to pay for his mistake.

They signed up for it, the Military is an all volunteer military, they signed up for it full knowing what is happening.

The numbers aren't biased. They're from the census data, etc.

And yes, it is a conservative think-tank; however, unless you have data to contradict the study, or can demonstate a flaw in the methodology, I'll take that comment for what it is - an ad hominem attack. Which does nothing to prove that the study is wrong.

First problem

Household Income of Recruits

Like their peers in 1999 and 2003, recruits in 2004 and 2005 came primarily from middle-class areas. Poor areas are proportionally underrepre*sented in the wartime years (2003–2005).

The Department of Defense (DOD) does not track family income data for recruits, and there are no individual income data for enlistees. Military service is the first full-time job for most of them. We approx*imate each recruit’s household income by using the median household income of his or her hometown ZIP code.

The DOD keeps no data so this is irrelevent on its face. Couple that with the fact that if you take a densely poulated state such as NJ you'll have errors in income levels. A town and a borough within a town share the same zip here. Average home prices in the town are 175,500 while the borough has a median home price of 625,474. This will drastically increase the home price (home price related to income unless you can find someone who'll lend you 625k on 30k a year?) This is all within 3 miles. Further, when you go to less populated places you have zip code that may occupy a huge area of land. The differential between income in these areas is far more skewed. This is my first problem with this study. I decline to go into others because I tend to be on the higher end having a BA/BS/MA and a CO in USMC Res. I go however know that I get a lot of powdered shit pretending to be donuts sent to me, if you catch what I'm saying.

It doesn't matter what he "ment" to say, all that matter is what he did say.

"In our education, if you make the most if it, study hard, do your homework, and if you make an effort to be smart, you can do well, if you don't you get stuck in Iraq."

they're there because they failed at school

Gee, those are your words aren't they? Did you NOT say, in your prior post "they're there because they failed at school?"

Are you insulting our troops? Are you implying that "they're there because they failed at school"? Those are YOUR WORDS aren't they? You said them, you must be insulting our troops!

Aw shit...context must be everything then, must it?

Gee, those are your words aren't they? Did you NOT say, in your prior post "they're there because they failed at school?"

Are you insulting our troops? Are you implying that "they're there because they failed at school"? Those are YOUR WORDS aren't they? You said them, you must be insulting our troops!

Aw shit...context must be everything then, must it?

Show me, please, show me how this is suppose to be an insult on Bush. I am willing to pay anyone $5 American, if they can prove that this was an actual joke, because so far, no one has reproduce the entire speech, all we have to go on is about 30 seconds of film, and in that 30 seconds, it doesn't sound like a joke. I don't care what he "meant" to say, that is irreverent, I want to see what he actually said.

No where in his comment did I hear anything about Bush, or about Bush's younger days, and until someone produces that part of the speech, this is all we have to go on.



Actually they're just replaying what Kerry said, but why shouldn't they replay it? It is true that they shouldn't replay it since it is an insult to our troops, but I wonder if there's something more, maybe the Democrats don't want to be reminded of this egg on their face?


they shouldnt do it because they KNOW he wasnt dissing the troops. they are taking what SOUNDS bad and pretending that they dont know that it was just a gaff. they should be ashamed of themselves stooping this low.



They signed up for it, the Military is an all volunteer military, they signed up for it full knowing what is happening.

im sorry but entering the military doesnt make it OK for you to die. it doesnt make 103 deaths this month alone insignificant because they volunteered. every death in iraq is a tragedy.

Show me, please, show me how this is suppose to be an insult on Bush. I am willing to pay anyone $5 American, if they can prove that this was an actual joke, because so far, no one has reproduce the entire speech, all we have to go on is about 30 seconds of film, and in that 30 seconds, it doesn't sound like a joke. I don't care what he "meant" to say, that is irreverent, I want to see what he actually said.

A Kerry aide told CNN that the prepared statement, which had been designed to criticize President Bush, "was mangled in delivery."

Kerry was supposed to say, "I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."
fucking pay up.

I'll show ya.



Could've fooled us.


Well, it's not hard to fool fools.


Actually the White House didn't have to do much on this one Mr. Kerry, you did this one yourself, first you said it was a botched joke, and then you said the White House distort your true statement, so, umm who's fault is it? Yours or the White House? Can we say "flip flop" boys and girls?


Can you say "Not this shit again?" I knew you could. Give it up. Your chimp won the election, that should be enough for you.


Eh, that I can agree with.



Weren't you for withdrawing troops in 2004, doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.

Feel free to come up with a better plan. Real easy to jeer form the cheap seats isn't hotshot? I can't help but notice that your trained chimp doesn't have a strategy.



Yea, damn those GOP, Goddammit we don't do that ourselves, now let's talk about those pesky election machine, the damn GOP are going to steal the elections again, any plans?

I think Mr. Kerry should apologize for insulting our men and women in uniform, regardless if it's a blotched joke or not, and I think he should owe up to it, he was the one that created the blotched joke, not the White House as he claim. If he apologize, all of this actually would be done and over with, but since he hasn't, the march goes on.


Yeah, let's divert things by bringing up 40 year old mistakes by a Democratic administration. LBJ was wrong, so's the chimp. That settle it?

No it does not.

It says there is a higher percentage of people with high school diplomas.

That does NOT mean that they are, as a whole, better educated.

I'll ask again, what is the average education level of a person in the armed forces? What is the average education level of a civilian?

I'll say it again since you convienietly stopped reading after my first sentence-"if you kept reading you would find that military personel perform better on standardized tests than civilians and also have on avg., better reading comprehension." Also, how do you measure the level of education besides standardized tests and diplomas?

fucking pay up.

Nope sorry, I want the actual transcript, from word to word, and actually, that just really confirms that he meant to say that.

"I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."

Still not seeing the joke that he claims is there.

Nope sorry, I want the actual transcript, from word to word.
Backing out on a bet? Chickenshit thing to do there.

No it's not. People make the decision to join the military out of genuinely good motives. They are patriotic, they want to improve themselves, or they want job training and money for college. That's not stupid. It is stupid to send them to die in an unnecessary war.

And I'm going to guess you don't know the real reason for the war.

And I'm going to guess you don't know the real reason for the war.

Control of natural resources. That's what every war is about, if you dig deep enough. Duh.

Backing out on a bet? Chickenshit thing to do there.

I don't think he's backing out, I think the joke went over his head.

And I'm going to guess you don't know the real reason for the war.

Whatever. I don't care what some "real reason" for the war was. What I do know was that the "real result" is a disaster in foreign policy and possibly teh eventual erosion of American hegemony in the world and what will probably be the first stage in the destabalization of the entire region and world wide energy crisis the likes fo which it is probably impossible to imagine right now.

Backing out on a bet? Chickenshit thing to do there.

I said I want what he said from word to word, not what his mouth piece said that he "meant" to say. The bet still stands and I did not back out of it. I want an expansion of the YouTube clip, what he said before and after, and I also said show me how it's an insult on bush. This is the bet.

Show me, please, show me how this is suppose to be an insult on Bush. I am willing to pay anyone $5 American, if they can prove that this was an actual joke, because so far, no one has reproduce the entire speech, all we have to go on is about 30 seconds of film, and in that 30 seconds, it doesn't sound like a joke. I don't care what he "meant" to say, that is irreverent, I want to see what he actually said.

Nope sorry, I want the actual transcript, from word to word, and actually, that just really confirms that he meant to say that.



Still not seeing the joke that he claims is there.

Maybe this will help. Because apparently you cannot read properly.
You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."
Did the troops get us stuck in a war in Iraq? No. The deserter in the white house did.

DM,
Bush is well edu-ma-cated. I seem to remember hearing that he got slightly better grades than Kerry and that he went to Yale and Harvard.

Everyone,
What Kerry meant to say and what he actually said are, in this case at least, different things. He meant to tell a joke. What he actually said insulted a lot of people. That was because of poor delivery but it happened just the same. A slip of the tounge can make all the difference in the world.

Maybe this will help. Because apparently you cannot read properly.

Did the troops get us stuck in a war in Iraq? No. The deserter in the white house did.

That's a poor joke.

It's stupid to be the person sent to Iraq as well...

... anyhoo, what is the deal with this obsession on fellating the military in the US? Really, it's just the military. Not exactly cream of the crop...

because US politics is entirely about paying public homage to things you don't really care about.

kerry is not liberal, for the record.

That's a poor joke.
Like you're the arbiter of all good taste in humor.:rolleyes:

That's a poor joke.

yes it is. i guess thats why kerry is in politics instead of comedy

1 @/\/\ 5p@/\/\ \/\/0/\/\@/\/ @/\/6 7h0u h@7h @/\/g3r36 /\/\3 101z

Like you're the arbiter of all good taste in humor.:rolleyes:

I'm not, but I could come up with a better joke than that.

yes it is. i guess thats why kerry is in politics instead of comedy

I thought it was because he had no other real talent. :p

That's a poor joke.

Who gives a damn whether or not it was a good joke. It was a joke about the president and not about the troops. Any attempt to say otherwise is mere partisan hackery.

Who gives a damn whether or not it was a good joke. It was a joke about the president and not about the troops. Any attempt to say otherwise is mere partisan hackery.

Seems to be more of an insult than a joke really....

Seems to be more of an insult than a joke really....If there is a person on this planet who deserves to be insulted every moment of every day for the rest of his life, well, it's Dick Cheney. But right behind him on that list is George W. Bush.

Seems to be more of an insult than a joke really....

Not all that familiar with Don Rickles, don't know that both can apply?

Honestly, I just found out about it so I haven't followed the debate but: It's clear who he meant when he made the joke, but it's also clear that the Usual Suspects would take it the way they did. I don't know, does that make Kerry foolish for not knowing that's what they were going to do at this point (I mean, it's not the first time...), or make the Usual Suspects predictable or dim for performing as expected? Probably a little from column A, a little from column B...

Seems to be more of an insult than a joke really....
you want an insult?
George Bush is a petty, useless, ignorant, moronic, miserable failure, and the nation, not to mention the world, would be better off if his mother had been barren. He is a deserter, a traitor, and the fact that he can look members of the military in the eye after his failure to live up to his duty during the Vietnam war sickens me. In my mind, he is the worst mistake this country ever made.

George Bush is a petty, useless, ignorant, moronic, miserable failure, and the nation, not to mention the world, would be better off if his mother had been barren. He is a deserter, a traitor, and the fact that he can look members of the military in the eye after his failure to live up to his duty during the Vietnam war sickens me. In my mind, he is the worst mistake this country ever made.
-How is a guy who graduated from Yale and Harvard ignorant or moronic?
-How is he a deserter? The CBS story on that was shown to be a forgery. Just because he got a cushy job in the military that he didn't deserve doesn't make him a deserter.
-How is he a traitor? I'd really like to know.

You may not like the guy but that is no excuse to lie.

-How is a guy who graduated from Yale and Harvard ignorant or moronic?
A diploma does not a genius make. I can tell he's an ignorant moron by the way he talks, the way he acts, the way he reasons things out, the positions he takes, his lackluster strategies, and the fact that I can feel my IQ lowering when I watch him on TV.

-How is he a deserter? The CBS story on that was shown to be a forgery. Just because he got a cushy job in the military that he didn't deserve doesn't make him a deserter.
just because the document was a forgery doesn't mean that he wasn't AWOL and unaccounted for for nearly a year while in the National Guard.
-How is he a traitor? I'd really like to know.
I personally consider him a traitor because he has sold out America to various corporations, endangered the soldiers and made us more vulnerable through his illegal war in Iraq, and generally not lived up to his responsibilities in the highest office of our nation.
You may not like the guy but that is no excuse to lie.
I wasn't lying.

But anyway, we shouldn't let this hijack the thread.

Seems to be more of an insult than a joke really....

so you now acquiesce it was about the President and not the troops. Not a good joke, more of an insult to you, but about the President. So as the man said "fucking pay up" Beyotch. Oh, I added the last part and throught I might get flamed for calling you a bitch. Ooops, I just did it. Kerry's words could never outshine Bush's failures. How does him saying something stupid make up for record deficits, broken borders, failed foreign policy, etc.?

-How is a guy who graduated from Yale and Harvard ignorant or moronic?
-How is he a deserter? The CBS story on that was shown to be a forgery. Just because he got a cushy job in the military that he didn't deserve doesn't make him a deserter.
-How is he a traitor? I'd really like to know.

You may not like the guy but that is no excuse to lie.

yes, people from rich families with legacy ties would never get preferential treatment and grades from private schools? Do you get paid to be this ignorant of how America "works." Hell, I earned my degrees from Princeton without a rich daddy. Anyone want to buy me an oil company?

yes, people from rich families with legacy ties would never get preferential treatment and grades from private schools? Do you get paid to be this ignorant of how America "works." Hell, I earned my degrees from Princeton without a rich daddy. Anyone want to buy me an oil company?

Besides, the real proof was in the graduate work. An MBA isn't nearly as hard as a juris doctor, and that's without passing the bar. Hell, Dubya didn't have the test scores to get into UT Law School--that's why he went to Harvard for the MBA in the first place.

That said, he's a smart politician as far as getting elected is concerned. Not in much else, but in that at least.

Poor Kerry mangled his joke indeed. In fact he mangled it just about as badly as someone possibly could. He's even got members of his own party telling him to shut up because "he's already cost them one election."

Sorry guys...I know that this website is loaded with Libs and Dems, but I can't help chuckle at Kerry's gaff. And to think that this man almost made it to the White House...sheesh.

You can say whatever you want about Bush (who indeed has his flaws) and the Republicans (who also have their flaws), but John Kerry is no different than any other kook in the far left-wing of the Demcratic Party. He's pretentious, condescending, willing to slander the military for political gain, uninspiring, unaggressive in his foreign policy towards Islamic Terrorism, and he's never met an entitlement program that he hasn't liked. He's spent his whole political career pushing for tax increases in order to buy votes from any special interest group that doesn't violate his left-wing sensibilities. But according to some previous poster on this thread "he's not liberal"....riiiiiiiight. This guys so liberal that he believes that Hollywood is "the Heartland of America". This guys so liberal he thinks that Republicans fart just to increase global warming.

Perhaps many of you are right. It appears he was to merely deliver a pre-written punchline. But when you go back and listen to exactly what he said and couple that with other well-known instances of military-bashing that he's engaged in, he's caused a headache for the Democratic Party that they just don't need right now.

If there is a person on this planet who deserves to be insulted every moment of every day for the rest of his life, well, it's Dick Cheney. But right behind him on that list is George W. Bush.

Why is Bush behind Cheney?

Why is Bush behind Cheney?

It's easier to stab him in the back that way. :)

What I like best about John Kerry is that he can always be counted on to remind me of what I dislike about John Kerry. A close second is how he can always be counted on to give republicans a chance to show why i dislike them too.

Here's the thing: I don't trust John Kerry. My initial reaction when I heard his explanation of his comments and the 'botched joke' was suspicion. Maybe it's the truth, and maybe it's not. I think the easiest way to tell when he's lying is to look for lip movement; when they're moving, he's probably lying. :p

On the other hand, Tony SNow, who apparently thought the Mark Foley issue was "simply naughty e-mails" was all over John Kerry like stink on shit. I'm sorry, but I'm considerably more offended by a congressman using his position as a tool for seducing boys than I am by an off-color joke.

But then again, I'm the crazy one. :p

Poor Kerry mangled his joke indeed. In fact he mangled it just about as badly as someone possibly could. He's even got members of his own party telling him to shut up because "he's already cost them one election."

Sorry guys...I know that this website is loaded with Libs and Dems, but I can't help chuckle at Kerry's gaff. And to think that this man almost made it to the White House...sheesh.

You can say whatever you want about Bush (who indeed has his flaws) and the Republicans (who also have their flaws), but John Kerry is no different than any other kook in the far left-wing of the Demcratic Party. He's pretentious, condescending, willing to slander the military for political gain, uninspiring, unaggressive in his foreign policy towards Islamic Terrorism, and he's never met an entitlement program that he hasn't liked. He's spent his whole political career pushing for tax increases in order to buy votes from any special interest group that doesn't violate his left-wing sensibilities. But according to some previous poster on this thread "he's not liberal"....riiiiiiiight. This guys so liberal that he believes that Hollywood is "the Heartland of America". This guys so liberal he thinks that Republicans fart just to increase global warming.

Perhaps many of you are right. It appears he was to merely deliver a pre-written punchline. But when you go back and listen to exactly what he said and couple that with other well-known instances of military-bashing that he's engaged in, he's caused a headache for the Democratic Party that they just don't need right now.

Damn that Kerry, he disrespects the military so much he fought and was wounded in a war with them. He's so stupid he thinks we could fix the national debt with a tax increase! And maybe he's unagressive enough in his foreign policy to not invade the wrong fucking country! what will we do?