NationStates Jolt Archive

Well it'll be intresting to see both side try to spin this in their favor.

White House Spokesman Slams Kerry Remark

By JENNIFER LOVEN
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The White House accused Sen. John Kerry on Tuesday of troop-bashing, seizing on a comment the Democrat made to California students that those unable to navigate the country's education system "get stuck in Iraq."

"Senator Kerry not only owes an apology to those who are serving, but also to the families of those who've given their lives in this," White House press secretary Tony Snow said. "This is an absolute insult."

Kerry, a decorated Vietnam veteran and President Bush's 2004 rival, fired back.

He said he had been criticizing Bush, not the "heroes serving in Iraq," and said the president and his administration are the ones who owe U.S. troops an apology because they "misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it."

"This is the classic GOP playbook," Kerry said in a harshly worded statement. "I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did. I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium."

One week before the midterm elections, the two parties are searching for any edge amid indications Democrats could take back the House and possibly win control of the Senate.

Snow was asked about the comment which Kerry made during a campaign rally Monday for California Democratic gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides. The White House spokesman was clearly ready, consulting his notes to read a fuller account of Kerry's statement and unleashing a sharp attack.

Separately, the White House issued President Bush's Veterans' Day proclamation praising those who have served in the armed forces - a week and a half before the holiday.

The Massachusetts senator, who is considering another presidential run in 2008, had opened his speech at Pasadena City College with several one-liners, joking at one point that Bush had lived in Texas but now "lives in a state of denial."

Then he said: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Snow said the quote "fits a pattern" of negative remarks from Kerry about U.S. soldiers and suggested that whether Democratic candidates - particularly those running on their military service backgrounds - agree with their 2004 standard-bearer should be a campaign litmus test.

Unsubstantiated allegations about Kerry's Vietnam War heroism from a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth figured prominently in the 2004 Kerry-Bush race. Even Kerry has blamed his slow and uncertain response to the group's claims for helping doom his White House chances.

Snow said a lot of Americans have joined the military since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

"As for the notion that you can say this sort of thing about the troops and say you support them, it's interesting," the press secretary said.

A potential rival to Kerry in 2008 - Republican Sen. John McCain - said in a statement that Kerry "owes an apology to the many thousands of Americans serving in Iraq, who answered their country's call because they are patriots and not because of any deficiencies in their education."

Like Kerry, McCain is a decorated Vietnam veteran.

House Majority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, also called on Kerry to apologize, labeling his comments "disrespectful and insulting to the men and women serving in our military."

---

Associated Press Writer Michael Blood in Los Angeles contributed to this report.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/W/WHITE_HOUSE_KERRY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-10-31-12-59-09

Mr. Kerry's remark is not exactly true, my Uncle has a 4 year degree, and he's an aircraft mechanic, my dad had an associate before he joined the Army, and one of my favorite teacher had his teaching certificate before going into the Marines, so it's not just poor down trotten people who become solders for the US Military. Believe it or not, many do choose to serve because they want to serve their country.

Also, here's a You-Tube of Mr. Kerry's comment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

he didn't say that all people on Iraq had failed in academia. What he said is if you do fail in academia, you have a high chance of ending up in Iraq.

All squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares.

he didn't say that all people on Iraq had failed in academia. What he said is if you do fail in academia, you have a high chance of ending up in Iraq.

All squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares.

Or going into the work force.

Or going into the work force.
yes...but military is a better option...atleast you get a decent training in a field.

Did he use hyperbole? Yes. Did he insult every soldier in Iraq? No.

yes...but military is a better option...atleast you get a decent training in a field.

Did he use hyperbole? Yes. Did he insult every soldier in Iraq? No.

He didn't insult, but he did generalize.

He didn't insult, but he did generalize.

God knows he's the first politician to say something correct in the stupidest possible way. Do I need to mention the "OB-GYNs practicing their love" quote? Do I really have to bring that up?

Absolutely the best part of the article:

"This is the classic GOP playbook," Kerry said in a harshly worded statement. "I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did. I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium."

He didn't insult, but he did generalize.

And he made a dangerous step into social commentary. The military is seen as a way out of poverty, or at least that's what it's billed as. Those who can't get into college and can't pay for it if they could might join the military to gain respectability and free tuition. Those who join the military might end up in Iraq. Ipso facto, those cast in weak academic positions are more likely to go to Iraq. Not because they're stupid but because the playing field is unlevel.

Actually, everybody in this thread has it all wrong including the OP. When you take it in context you realize what he meant. They played the surrounding minutes of the speech on the radio this morning and it was a series of jokes about the various blunders of the Bush administration. What Kerry was saying in this particular passage should be translated, "If you are stupid and spend your college years partying and being a dumb ass you will end up getting the country stuck in a quagmire in Iraq." The insult, when taken in context, wasn't about soldiers being stuck in Iraq, it was about that really stupid guy who spent his college years drinking like a fish, the seventies and eighties failing at every business venture he ever tried and snorting rails of coke off the bathroom counters at Camp David, ended up becoming president because of stupid people being easily manipulated by Karl Rove and then gettng himself stuck in Iraq.

"This is the classic GOP playbook," Kerry said in a harshly worded statement. "I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did. I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium."

And if the Dems had come out in 2004 with guns blazing like that, we might be referring to President Kerry working with a Democratic majority in the Senate today. It's about high time Mr. Kerry came out and said what needed to be said, even if it's two years too late.

And if the Dems had come out in 2004 with guns blazing like that, we might be referring to President Kerry working with a Democratic majority in the Senate today. It's about high time Mr. Kerry came out and said what needed to be said, even if it's two years too late.


Amen.

he didn't say that all people on Iraq had failed in academia. What he said is if you do fail in academia, you have a high chance of ending up in Iraq.

All squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares.

True, he didn't say all people in Iraq had failed in Academia... but what he said did imply that if you fail in Academia, you're going to Iraq.

Then he said: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

If you don't what? do well in school? make the effort to be smart? Make the most of your education? all says the same thing.

Actually, everybody in this thread has it all wrong including the OP. When you take it in context you realize what he meant. They played the surrounding minutes of the speech on the radio this morning and it was a series of jokes about the various blunders of the Bush administration. What Kerry was saying in this particular passage should be translated, "If you are stupid and spend your college years partying and being a dumb ass you will end up getting the country stuck in a quagmire in Iraq." The insult, when taken in context, wasn't about soldiers being stuck in Iraq, it was about that really stupid guy who spent his college years drinking like a fish, the seventies and eighties failing at every business venture he ever tried and snorting rails of coke off the bathroom counters at Camp David, ended up becoming president because of stupid people being easily manipulated by Karl Rove and then gettng himself stuck in Iraq.hmm.. can anyone find the entire speech? that certainly would help.

hmm.. can anyone find the entire speech? that certainly would help.

Yea, that what we need really. I don't see how being in this war is funny though, those are our men and women dying over there, for, umm, ok does anyone know what the reason is this week? Are we still on spreading democracy? *someone whispers yes*. You know, if the Iraqi people really wanted democracy, why didn't they do it themselves, like we did? *whispers, I dunno*. At least the war for oil was a bit plausible. Ah screw this, I'm going back to ranting about government sizes and taxes. Seriously though, I never really saw much point in this war, I mean the only way this could work if the people wants democracy, and so far it seems like the country is heading into a Civil War.

And if the Dems had come out in 2004 with guns blazing like that, we might be referring to President Kerry working with a Democratic majority in the Senate today. It's about high time Mr. Kerry came out and said what needed to be said, even if it's two years too late.
Probably true, but as you say, better late than never.

hmm.. can anyone find the entire speech? that certainly would help.

I don't know where to find it but it was on KFI's Bill Handle show this morning. For those who don't know he's a conservative talk show host on a very conservative radio station. I like him because he's fair. He stuck up for Kerry on his show today, not because he thinks the guy would make a good president, but because he felt the spin the speech was taking was unfair.

Here's an article in the Times about him.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-handel21oct21,1,7609226.story

I don't know where to find it but it was on KFI's Bill Handle show this morning. For those who don't know he's a conservative talk show host on a very conservative radio station. I like him because he's fair. He stuck up for Kerry on his show today, not because he thinks the guy would make a good president, but because he felt the spin the speech was taking was unfair.

Here's an article in the Times about him.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-handel21oct21,1,7609226.story

Everyone takes thing out of context and blows it out of porportion. Both Dems as well as Reps. no side is the only one guilty of it.

Is it right? no.

Will it stop? no.

Kerry's response:

"If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy," he said. "No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut-and-run policy in Afghanistan and a stand-still-and-lose strategy in Iraq."

www.cnn.com

Kerry's response:



www.cnn.com

If only he was that vicious during the campaign...

If only he was that vicious during the campaign...

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing.

Absolutely the best part of the article:


"This is the classic GOP playbook," Kerry said in a harshly worded statement. "I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did. I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium."

Absolutely.

Either way, The same concept nailed him in the election. He makes improperly worded statements that can be used as sound-bites against him. It won't be just the talking heads that take it as him stating only stupid people join the military.

And by the exertion of one man, an entire theory is a fallacy? Perhaps not. The statement pointed to the propensity, not the obligation, for those with poor academic results to end in Iraq.

Either way, The same concept nailed him in the election. He makes improperly worded statements that can be used as sound-bites against him. It won't be just the talking heads that take it as him stating only stupid people join the military.

In truth, and provided one has the perceptive capacities of a guppy fish, he did not, nor, indeed, should you make axiom of stupidity equating to poor results. However, given the average intellect of the western electorate, most notably those of the USA and Britain, such a belief would not surprise me.

Either way, The same concept nailed him in the election. He makes improperly worded statements that can be used as sound-bites against him. It won't be just the talking heads that take it as him stating only stupid people join the military.

And yet a man who says things like this gets elected twice:

One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures.

We had a chance to visit with Teresa Nelson who's a parent, and a mom or a dad.

And if one of those jobs are created, we must have a system which trains people for the jobs which actually exist.

By making the right choices, we can make the right choice for our future.

Still, as I'm sure one of our neo-con comrades will point out, president Bush doesn't have the time to speak English correctly.

And by the exertion of one man, an entire theory is a fallacy? Perhaps not. The statement pointed to the propensity, not the obligation, for those with poor academic results to end in Iraq.

No, it pointed to the idiocy of one man and his botched education to get himself stuck in Iraq. Kerry was talking about President Bush and that is clear when you hear the surrounding minutes. It was just one of a series of barbs pointed at th administration. It doesn't even make sense in context for him to suddenly jump off track to take a barb at the troops and then jump back on track and start hitting Bush with barbs. He was not eluding to the troops in Iraq or the people who tend to join the military.

And yet a man who says things like this gets elected twice:

Still, as I'm sure one of our neo-con comrades will point out, president Bush doesn't have the time to speak English correctly.

So the DNC needs to work on their strategy.

I like the idea that anyone that wants to be President, shouldn't be.

Most liberals, like Kerry, don't understand patriotism and sacrifice. Instead, they are given everything in life and refuse to accept that some people are naturally altruistic and instead opt to call them "stupid." I believe that the correct term for such people is "spoiled brats."

Most liberals, like Kerry, don't understand patriotism and sacrifice. Instead, they are given everything in life and refuse to accept that some people are naturally altruistic and instead opt to call them "stupid." I believe that the correct term for such people is "spoiled brats."

Right, because Kerry never served in Vietnam and never got shot at. Say what you will about how disputed his medals were; he got Purple Hearts, which means he was wounded in combat. To say he has no idea what it means to be in a situation like that is more insane than...well, then again, it's easier to just say that your entire argument is insane.

Most liberals, like Kerry, don't understand patriotism and sacrifice. Instead, they are given everything in life and refuse to accept that some people are naturally altruistic and instead opt to call them "stupid." I believe that the correct term for such people is "spoiled brats."

Indeed? If John Kerry's service in Vietnam wasn't good enough in 2004, apparently John McCain's wasn't, either, in 2000, when he was driven out of the Republican primaries by a man whose only record of service in the Guard was some dental x-rays. And please, explain to me how George W. Bush was not given everything in life, and how he's not a "spoiled brat." The man never sacrificed a thing in his life.

Right, because Kerry never served in Vietnam and never got shot at. Say what you will about how disputed his medals were; he got Purple Hearts, which means he was wounded in combat. To say he has no idea what it means to be in a situation like that is more insane than...well, then again, it's easier to just say that your entire argument is insane.

That's not an argument, it's a talking point. I forget which number, I'm sure there's a web site somewhere that says what to do when Ebil Liverals contrast Kerry's Vietnam service to Bush's Vietnam avoidance.

That's not an argument, it's a talking point. I forget which number, I'm sure there's a web site somewhere that says what to do when Ebil Liverals contrast Kerry's Vietnam service to Bush's Vietnam avoidance.

Isn't it amazing that we have military medical records showing Kerry with shrapnel and Bush with military medical records showing that he got his teeth cleaned? I mean... does anybody else just look at those two facts alone and kind of grin inwardly.

Isn't it amazing that we have military medical records showing Kerry with shrapnel and Bush with military medical records showing that he got his teeth cleaned? I mean... does anybody else just look at those two facts alone and kind of grin inwardly.

And then Bush decided he was too busy to fulfill his Guard obligations, so he just up and left, to go work on someone's campaign, I believe. If you or I tried that, we'd be in legal trouble before you could say "Mission Accomplished." But the spoiled brat, son of privilege, just walks off into the sunset.

And then Bush decided he was too busy to fulfill his Guard obligations, so he just up and left, to go work on someone's campaign, I believe. If you or I tried that, we'd be in legal trouble before you could say "Mission Accomplished." But the spoiled brat, son of privilege, just walks off into the sunset.

"I don't remember him on the base." I remember that quote from one of the Generals I think.

"I don't remember him on the base." I remember that quote from one of the Generals I think.

I'm sure you remember the Dan Rather - forged memo thing, but do you remember the interview with the colonel's secretary who said that the colonel certainly thought those things about Bush, he just didn't put them in writing. That little sound bite never got repeated.

Is it just me, or is this election much dirtier and uncivilized than any other in recent memory?

I'm sure you remember the Dan Rather - forged memo thing, but do you remember the interview with the colonel's secretary who said that the colonel certainly thought those things about Bush, he just didn't put them in writing. That little sound bite never got repeated.

Oh... the hypocrisy can be bounced back and forth all night, couldn't it?

Is it just me, or is this election much dirtier and uncivilized than any other in recent memory?

Seems like each one that comes along is, doesn't it?

"This is the classic GOP playbook," Kerry said in a harshly worded statement. "I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did. I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium."

I didnt know the man had a pair. Must have sucked them in after August 04.

I didnt know the man had a pair. Must have sucked them in after August 04.

Democrats have a Godawful tread lightly strategy during elections.

Sometimes the truth isn't pleasant.

Our volunteer army has a 'backdoor draft' - for some people, it's the only good work to be found.

Very, VERY politically incorrect to say anything at all about 'the troops' though nowadays, so the PC police will have a field day with this.

Democrats have a Godawful tread lightly strategy during elections.

Indeed, fuck that asshole Kerry for not saying that in 2004. He could have done a whole lot more than he did, and we could have avoided most of the last 2 years' problems.

I didnt know the man had a pair. Must have sucked them in after August 04.

Democrats have a Godawful tread lightly strategy during elections.

Y'know, in '08 we should get out there with someone who isn't afraid, and just go for the jugular. The hell with being polite. What's the worst that could happen, we'd lose again? Isn't that what's been happening?

Wow, he's a moron to make baseless attacks against U.S. forces. And everyone who agrees w/ him is also a moron. 99% of those in the U.S. military have a high school diploma whereass 80% of civilians do. So that would mean that if you do poorly in school that you are way more likely to not join the military than otherwise. Hmmm, methinks that Kerry talks out of his ass.

Wow, he's a moron to make baseless attacks against U.S. forces. And everyone who agrees w/ him is also a moron. 99% of those in the U.S. military have a high school diploma whereass 80% of civilians do. So that would mean that if you do poorly in school that you are way more likely to not join the military than otherwise. Hmmm, methinks that Kerry talks out of his ass.

Deja vu:
"What are the minimum educational requirements to enlist in the Military?
Success in any branch of the Military depends on a good education, and a high school diploma is most desirable. Candidates with a GED can enlist, but some services may limit opportunities. It is very difficult to be considered a serious candidate without either a high school diploma or accepted alternative credential. In any case, staying in school is important for entering the Military."
http://www.todaysmilitary.com/app/tm/faq/entrance#education

Wow, he's a moron to make baseless attacks against U.S. forces. And everyone who agrees w/ him is also a moron. 99% of those in the U.S. military have a high school diploma whereass 80% of civilians do. So that would mean that if you do poorly in school that you are way more likely to not join the military than otherwise. Hmmm, methinks that Kerry talks out of his ass.


And methinks you should read the rest of the thread before jumping to conclusions.

Wow, he's a moron to make baseless attacks against U.S. forces. And everyone who agrees w/ him is also a moron. 99% of those in the U.S. military have a high school diploma whereass 80% of civilians do. So that would mean that if you do poorly in school that you are way more likely to not join the military than otherwise. Hmmm, methinks that Kerry talks out of his ass.

He didn't attck the troops. He was talking about Bush. Bush is the moron why botched his education and got stuck in Iraq.

I'll post it again...


Actually, everybody in this thread has it all wrong including the OP. When you take it in context you realize what he meant. They played the surrounding minutes of the speech on the radio this morning and it was a series of jokes about the various blunders of the Bush administration. What Kerry was saying in this particular passage should be translated, "If you are stupid and spend your college years partying and being a dumb ass you will end up getting the country stuck in a quagmire in Iraq." The insult, when taken in context, wasn't about soldiers being stuck in Iraq, it was about that really stupid guy who spent his college years drinking like a fish, the seventies and eighties failing at every business venture he ever tried and snorting rails of coke off the bathroom counters at Camp David, ended up becoming president because of stupid people being easily manipulated by Karl Rove and then gettng himself stuck in Iraq.

He didn't attck the troops. He was talking about Bush. Bush is the moron why botched his education and got stuck in Iraq.

I believe his exact words were "if you make an effort to be smart you can do well, if you don't u get stuck in iraq." How is that not attacking the troops? He is saying that there are no intelligent people in the U.S. military.

I believe his exact words were "if you make an effort to be smart you can do well, if you don't u get stuck in iraq." How is that not attacking the troops? He is saying that there are no intelligent people in the U.S. military.

No, basically he's saying, "I'm John Kerry and I can't tell a joke." It's pretty obvious what he meant to say.

I'll post it again...

this particular passage should be translated, "If you are stupid and spend your college years partying and being a dumb ass you will end up getting the country stuck in a quagmire in Iraq." The insult, when taken in context, wasn't about soldiers being stuck in Iraq, it was about that really stupid guy who spent his college years drinking like a fish, the seventies and eighties failing at every business venture he ever tried and snorting rails of coke off the bathroom counters at Camp David, ended up becoming president because of stupid people being easily manipulated by Karl Rove and then gettng himself stuck in Iraq.

Oh ok, if he was belittling Bush then it was okay (do u have a link). But there are still people on this thread agreeing w/ his comment out of context. That is what needs to be shot down.

I believe his exact words were "if you make an effort to be smart you can do well, if you don't u get stuck in iraq." How is that not attacking the troops? He is saying that there are no intelligent people in the U.S. military.

He was refering to Bush not being smart and getting stuck in Iraq. That's abundantly clear when you put it in context. The comment is preceded by jokes about Bush's incompetence and followed by jokes about his incompetence. "Bush is a moron and isn't educated and is now stuck in Iraq." All true.

Oh ok, if he was belittling Bush then it was okay (do u have a link). But there are still people on this thread agreeing w/ his comment out of context. That is what needs to be shot down.

It is not true that those serving in the military only chose the career because they failed in school, many chose it because it best suited them, a decision that doctors, lawyers, politicians, and engineers all make.

But it is also true that those who were unable to succeed in school are often driven to the military. That is what people are saying.

It wasn't enough for him to blow it '04, now he's got to blow in '08 too. The Dems must be so proud of him right now.

It wasn't enough for him to blow it '04, now he's got to blow in '08 too. The Dems must be so proud of him right now.

I think this may actually bite the admin back once it becomes clear that he was talking about Bush, not the soldiers, and I think that is becoming clear quickly.

It is not true that those serving in the military only chose the career because they failed in school, many chose it because it best suited them, a decision that doctors, lawyers, politicians, and engineers all make.

But it is also true that those who were unable to succeed in school are often driven to the military. That is what people are saying.

By being unable to succeed do u mean unable to pass or unable to get b's? B/c if the latter is your definition then you may be right however otherwise... First of all, the military population is on avg. more educated than the civilian population so you can't lable the military as uneducated and secondly, i really don't think that the military is such a horrible experience for anyone. Quite the opposite in fact.

I call bullshit on Kerry's excuse. There was nothing in that joke to imply it was about Bush. Kerry said somethiing really dumb and is trying to lie his way out of it.

I call bullshit on Kerry's excuse. There was nothing in that joke to imply it was about Bush. Kerry said somethiing really dumb and is trying to lie his way out of it.

Silly opinions are a freedom I would not want to see denied anybody.

Oh ok, if he was belittling Bush then it was okay (do u have a link). But there are still people on this thread agreeing w/ his comment out of context. That is what needs to be shot down.

I don't have a link. The youtube link only has that one line and is not in context either (go figure). I heard them play several minutes of it today on the radio while I was driving to work on the Bill Handle show. Bill Handle is a conservative talk show host out here in LA who was defending Kerry because he knew the comments were being taken out of context and that Kerry was actually referring to Bush being stuck in Iraq.

I think this may actually bite the admin back once it becomes clear that he was talking about Bush, not the soldiers, and I think that is becoming clear quickly.

Since when have the people cared about the truth concerning a politician, especially this particular politician.

Anything Kerry feeds to the Republicans will be bad for the Democrats, this is no different and will be used as a soundbyte for the next week and maybe during Kerry's next campaign.

I call bullshit on Kerry's excuse. There was nothing in that joke to imply it was about Bush. Kerry said somethiing really dumb and is trying to lie his way out of it.

Again, taking it in context it is abundantly clear that he was talking about Bush. The whole string of jokes were directed at Bush there would be no reason to suddenly throw some comment about troops in the middle of a string of jokes about how stupid Bush is. It doesn't make sense. People don't talk like that.


"Hey, you know I love fishing."

"I really like to catch Bass."

"I love the quietness of being on a lake."

"My dad taught me to fish when I was only 12 years old."

"Ford is in real trouble if they don't get their health care costs under control."

"I only hate the cleaning of the fish afterwards."

"The fish guts really smell."

"It's fun cooking the fish you caught though."

Its an un-PC thing to say, but it is true.

The fact of the matter is, a lot of people who join the army arent intellectuals, they join the military to have a career that doesnt require college.

He may as well have said "do well in school or you'll get stuck in vocational school instead of college." The armed forces serve as a vocational school for a lot of people. People for whom university is not the best option.

By being unable to succeed do u mean unable to pass or unable to get b's? B/c if the latter is your definition then you may be right however otherwise... First of all, the military population is on avg. more educated than the civilian population so you can't lable the military as uneducated and secondly, i really don't think that the military is such a horrible experience for anyone. Quite the opposite in fact.

My father and grandfather were in the USAF, and I have no illusions that the military is not a good career (there are better, there are worse). I do know that the military trains their recruits well, too.

However, I am referring to those who are discouraged about their chances in college, unable to afford college, did not make the grades to be accepted or recieve a scholarship, or dropped out of high school and got a GED.

All of those are generally from a socio-economic range that were, in general, doomed to academic failure from the start, and are heavily recruited into the military.

Therefore, those who fail academically are likely to join the military and, when the military is misused, will suffer the greatest consequences.

Since when have the people cared about the truth concerning a politician, especially this particular politician.

Anything Kerry feeds to the Republicans will be bad for the Democrats, this is no different and will be used as a soundbyte for the next week and maybe during Kerry's next campaign.

But he's not apologizing, he's not backing down from his comments and eventually, as long as he doesn't apologize, people will see the comments in context.


Hopefully. He might just apologize...

Again, taking it in context it is abundantly clear that he was talking about Bush. The whole string of jokes were directed at Bush there would be no reason to suddenly throw some comment about troops in the middle of a string of jokes about how stupid Bush is. It doesn't make sense. People don't talk like that.


"Hey, you know I love fishing."

"I really like to catch Bass."

"I love the quietness of being on a lake."

"My dad taught me to fish when I was only 12 years old."

"Ford is in real trouble if they don't get their health care costs under control."

"I only hate the cleaning of the fish afterwards."

"The fish guts really smell."

"It's fun cooking the fish you caught though."ok, but until the transcript of the speech or a full recording of it, we don't have the proof needed to make that judgement.

But he's not apologizing, he's not backing down from his comments and eventually, as long as he doesn't apologize, people will see the comments in context.


Hopefully. He might just apologize...

I don't see it that way.

He is a very decorated war veteran who got branded as a cowardly, anti-troop, cut-n-run liberal rather easily.

Its an un-PC thing to say, but it is true.

The fact of the matter is, a lot of people who join the army arent intellectuals, they join the military to have a career that doesnt require college.

He may as well have said "do well in school or you'll get stuck in vocational school instead of college." The armed forces serve as a vocational school for a lot of people. People for whom university is not the best option.

Not Kerry, though. He was at Yale when he enlisted to serve in Vietnam.

My father and grandfather were in the USAF, and I have no illusions that the military is not a good career (there are better, there are worse). I do know that the military trains their recruits well, too.

However, I am referring to those who are discouraged about their chances in college, unable to afford college, did not make the grades to be accepted or recieve a scholarship, or dropped out of high school and got a GED.

All of those are generally from a socio-economic range that were, in general, doomed to academic failure from the start, and are heavily recruited into the military.

Therefore, those who fail academically are likely to join the military and, when the military is misused, will suffer the greatest consequences.
There is still an academic standard so it would not suffer. Also, the only socio-economic group in the military to go down since afghanistan started is the lowest one. Also, if they are intelligent but don't have the money to go to college then it is a win-win for everyone. The military gets a very good recruit and the recruit gets to go to college.

No Kerry, though. He was at Yale when he enlisted to serve in Vietnam.

Indeed, which is a very honorable thing to do.

Somebody sent me Kerry's response to this:


"If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.

I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq . It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.

The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.

Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they're afraid to debate real men. And this time it won't work because we're going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions. No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq ."

I call bullshit on Kerry's excuse. There was nothing in that joke to imply it was about Bush. Kerry said somethiing really dumb and is trying to lie his way out of it.

so you think that a national politician stumping for a local democratic candidate would write up a speech that goes

joke about bush

joke about bush

joke about bush

joke about how stupid our soldiers are?

pffffft.

I think this may actually bite the admin back once it becomes clear that he was talking about Bush, not the soldiers, and I think that is becoming clear quickly.

I think you are dismissing the anger of voters even though it is a slip. This will ride until the election and maybe unfairly cost the dem's votes. It is in my eyes a freudian slip of the tongue. I believe he actually thinks what he really said. He bungled a joke and told the truth in his mind.

As far as military men and women go. I have served with plenty of intelligent soldiers. Many varying backgrounds including myself. I was not poor and joined myself out of a sense of duty. Was sent to Iraq in 1990 and ended up there for a year. That is just how it goes.

Also want to add that just because someone comes from a poor background does not mean they too do not have a sense of duty to serve. I think it is easy to make a blanket assumption to say that just because a child is brought up poor and joins the military. They have no other option. That is a very ignorant way to look at it. I know of many people that made very good lives without being brought up in a middle or upper class home. I would argue that it is better to start out poor and achieve everything ones self. If that process includes the military then more power to the person. Anyway off my soapbox for now.

What a bastard-my friend who was killed was a f'in straight A student. He joined out of gratitude for being able to imigrate here from Africa.....


He's got turds for brains alright....kerry....

so you think that a national politician stumping for a local democratic candidate would write up a speech that goes

joke about bush

joke about bush

joke about bush

joke about how stupid our soldiers are?

pffffft.you sure?

could it also have been...

Joke about Bush

Joke about Bush's policies

Joke about Republicans

Joke about Republican legislation

Joke about Military (that was supposed to be another joke about Bush's policies.)

Joke about Republican scandels.

Joke about Bush's Supporters in the House and Senate...

you sure?

could it also have been...

Joke about Bush

Joke about Bush's policies

Joke about Republicans

Joke about Republican legislation

Joke about Military (that was supposed to be another joke about Bush's policies.)

Joke about Republican scandels.

Joke about Bush's Supporters in the House and Senate...

hmmm. a real comedian could do a riff like that, no problem. he could even make the gaffed joke about bush's lack of attention in school that turned into a diss on our military funny

but with kerry it was probably more:

lame unfunny joke about bush

lame unfunny joke about bush that he ruined the punch line of, turning it into a diss on the military

lame unfunny joke about bush made even less funny by the shocked silence of the crowd.

hmmm. a real comedian could do a riff like that, no problem. he could even make the gaffed joke about bush's lack of attention in school that turned into a diss on our military funny

but with kerry it was probably more:

lame unfunny joke about bush

lame unfunny joke about bush that he ruined the punch line of, turning it into a diss on the military

lame unfunny joke about bush made even less funny by the shocked silence of the crowd.and that's the thing. without a transcript of the speech, we can only assume one or the other.

I honestly think it is a mistake, several words left out of the "joke" and if it was a mistake, as one of the articles said it was, Kerry should apologize. He can apologize without backing down on his posistion on President Bush and the Republicans. After all, if it was an honest mistake (or bad joketelling) then apologize to the Military by saying it was a mispoken joke on the President's Education program and his mishandling of the Military. people would then shrug it off and forget about it.

(and it will show him to be a bigger man than most Republicans.)

It just seems that PD is adding alot more words than Kerry said, and I am having trouble believing that Kerry meant something other than what was apparent.

Kerry doesn't seem to be explaining what he meant by the comment either; vague indignation does not convince me all that much.

I think you are dismissing the anger of voters even though it is a slip. This will ride until the election and maybe unfairly cost the dem's votes. It is in my eyes a freudian slip of the tongue. I believe he actually thinks what he really said. He bungled a joke and told the truth in his mind.

As far as military men and women go. I have served with plenty of intelligent soldiers. Many varying backgrounds including myself. I was not poor and joined myself out of a sense of duty. Was sent to Iraq in 1990 and ended up there for a year. That is just how it goes.

Also want to add that just because someone comes from a poor background does not mean they too do not have a sense of duty to serve. I think it is easy to make a blanket assumption to say that just because a child is brought up poor and joins the military. They have no other option. That is a very ignorant way to look at it. I know of many people that made very good lives without being brought up in a middle or upper class home. I would argue that it is better to start out poor and achieve everything ones self. If that process includes the military then more power to the person. Anyway off my soapbox for now.

Kerry was attending Yale when he enlisted to fight in Vietnam.

A couple more words and it would have been a decent slam against W. The way it was though, just gives the GOP a nice little sound-bite to slam Kerry w/. He did the same thing numerous times in '04. Even if the full context does come out, it won't be heard by enough people to matter. The damage has been done.

I think you are dismissing the anger of voters even though it is a slip. This will ride until the election and maybe unfairly cost the dem's votes. It is in my eyes a freudian slip of the tongue. I believe he actually thinks what he really said. He bungled a joke and told the truth in his mind.

As far as military men and women go. I have served with plenty of intelligent soldiers. Many varying backgrounds including myself. I was not poor and joined myself out of a sense of duty. Was sent to Iraq in 1990 and ended up there for a year. That is just how it goes.

Also want to add that just because someone comes from a poor background does not mean they too do not have a sense of duty to serve. I think it is easy to make a blanket assumption to say that just because a child is brought up poor and joins the military. They have no other option. That is a very ignorant way to look at it. I know of many people that made very good lives without being brought up in a middle or upper class home. I would argue that it is better to start out poor and achieve everything ones self. If that process includes the military then more power to the person. Anyway off my soapbox for now.
I don't think so, and here's why--regardless of how the White House spins this, it always comes back to the failed policies in Iraq, and anytime that's the focus of the debate, the White House and the Republicans are in deep shit. It's the biggest issue in this election, by far, according to every poll out there. All the Dems have to do any time a Republican opens his or her mouth is say "it's your fuckup in Iraq"--not those exact words, but the sentiment, because the public isn't buying the "it's everyone's war" anymore. This is a Republican war, plain and simple.

It just seems that PD is adding alot more words than Kerry said, and I am having trouble believing that Kerry meant something other than what was apparent.

Kerry doesn't seem to be explaining what he meant by the comment either; vague indignation does not convince me all that much.

It's not vague. You are seeing some of what was said by Kerry in response to attacks on his speech. Think about it this way, why would a Yale graduate who volunteered for the military say that people who volunteer for the military are uneducated? The transcripts of his speech will be out soon enough. I know what I heard on the radio.

Kerry was attending Yale when he enlisted to fight in Vietnam.

I have a feeling that Kerry joined because of his aspirations for a political future. He knows as many politicians know that military service is a big plus. I think it was more like a self centered motivation rather then for a sense of service of the nation. His quickness in getting back due to "combat" is also suspicious. However that is just my personal opinion based on what facts I do know of his career. With that he did serve and that cannot be taken away from him. However his behavior after his service I find offensive in many ways as do many Americans.

I don't think so, and here's why--regardless of how the White House spins this, it always comes back to the failed policies in Iraq, and anytime that's the focus of the debate, the White House and the Republicans are in deep shit. It's the biggest issue in this election, by far, according to every poll out there. All the Dems have to do any time a Republican opens his or her mouth is say "it's your fuckup in Iraq"--not those exact words, but the sentiment, because the public isn't buying the "it's everyone's war" anymore. This is a Republican war, plain and simple.

Well history shows that the dem's will have the edge in this election due to past trends. I don't think it will be the House and Senate together.
As far as what you say the dem's have to say. I personally think that the majority of Americans that are what I would call the middle are damn tired of hearing "it's your fuckup in Iraq." Of course not withstanding that alot of dems were on board in the begining. Also do not think it is a sound strategy to countinously harp on "the war" even if you may think it is wrong. People do tire of negativity. Normally if someone is annoying you either walk away from them or slap them silly. I think that dem's may suffer because of this. The Republicans will also suffer to a degree because things are percieved by many to not going well. It is hard to say how each of those balance each other out. My pick will be Dem's get the House by a narrow margin and the Republican's retain the Senate or have an even split with Cheney deciding any ties. With a Democrat narrow House that will not give them a so called ruling majority due to defections. Anyway it will be interesting to see what happens.

Kerry was attending Yale when he enlisted to fight in Vietnam.

This is a minor point that I'm about to make, but it bugs me, so I'll make it. It's really just a matter of language.

Kerry did not enlist in the military. He was commisioned as a naval officer.

Enlisted members are the 'low ranking' members, such as privates & sergeants.

Commisioned officers are a different category (lieutenants, captains, colonels, generals).

Again, a minor point, and probably a bit petty on my part to bring it up. But I just wanted to set the record straight.

And now I'll just sit back and watch everyone yell at each other (with the occaisonal lucid point thrown in for good measure...I'm beginning to like this place)

This is a minor point that I'm about to make, but it bugs me, so I'll make it. It's really just a matter of language.

Kerry did not enlist in the military. He was commisioned as a naval officer.

Enlisted members are the 'low ranking' members, such as privates & sergeants.

Commisioned officers are a different category (lieutenants, captains, colonels, generals).

Again, a minor point, and probably a bit petty on my part to bring it up. But I just wanted to set the record straight.

And now I'll just sit back and watch everyone yell at each other (with the occaisonal lucid point thrown in for good measure...I'm beginning to like this place)Be careful. I wandered in about five years ago and I've never gotten it completely out of my system. ;)

Be careful. I wandered in about five years ago and I've never gotten it completely out of my system. ;)

I believe that I saw a sig that alluded to Hotel California..."You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave..." :) :)

I believe that I saw a sig that alluded to Hotel California..."You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave..." :) :)

How true that sig is. Even with all the dumbasses I still come back to see what people have to say.

Can we stop calling soldiers heroes...

A hero is someone who drops their cell phone and saves people from a burning building. Not some bastard who shot some terrorists...

Can we stop calling soldiers heroes...

A hero is someone who drops their cell phone and saves people from a burning building. Not some bastard who shot some terrorists...

Yes, i'm going ad hominem. May God have mercy on my soul.

FUCK YOU !

:upyours:

Can we stop calling soldiers heroes...

A hero is someone who drops their cell phone and saves people from a burning building. Not some bastard who shot some terrorists...

Really? What if that soldier shot a terrorist that was going to blow you up with a plane or some other outrageous act? Then is he a hero?

Shall I remind you that you owe your freedom to soldiers or is that getting to old for you?

No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq.

If the Dems had any brains at all, they would start using that statement excessively...to the point that we're all sick of it.

Hell, if they hammer that one hard enough over the next week, they just might get both houses.

I heard the last line was really supposed to be:

"Just ask President Bush." Implying that he's trapped in Iraq because he's an idiot.

If only he was that vicious during the campaign...

Amen.

When I read his response to the accusations to my missus she literally cheered. Hopefully the Dems can keep up an agressive response to Republican lies and propagander until the next election. And past it too of course.

Amen.

When I read his response to the accusations to my missus she literally cheered. Hopefully the Dems can keep up an agressive response to Republican lies and propagander until the next election. And past it too of course.

Or they could not come off as complete assholes and Mr. Kerry can say "Look, what I said was an accident, it was ment to be a stab at Bush, but I misinterperted what was written, and I said the wrong thing, I am sorry, and I am sorry to our men and women in uniform who fight for us."

This whole thing would be over by now if Mr. Kerry would've just said a simple apology.

Or they could not come off as complete assholes and Mr. Kerry can say "Look, what I said was an accident, it was ment to be a stab at Bush, but I misinterperted what was written, and I said the wrong thing, I am sorry, and I am sorry to our men and women in uniform who fight for us."

This whole thing would be over by now if Mr. Kerry would've just said a simple apology.

First of all, as others here have noted, Kerry has nothing to apologize for. But secondly, an apology is a poor political move, and I'll tell you why. As long as this stays in the news, so does Iraq, and the last thing the Republicans want right now is an election that's a referendum on Iraq war policy, because they lose that argument every single time. 60% of Americans think Iraq was a bad idea now, and want a plan to get out. So yeah, let's keep Iraq on the front pages for the next week at least. Please. Keep this story out there.

Like it or not this is what Kerry will see every time he runs for office .

his political future is a steaming turd. And whats worse he is painting the Democrats as troop haters at a time when they are doing well and he is energizing pissed off Republicans who wouldn't have gotten out to vote to vote...all because of him...what a fucking loser...he lost to Bush in 2004 ..now he;s doing his best to ruin it for the Democrats in 2006.
Howard Dean should take him hunting and do a Chenney on him ...aim for his mouth.


"They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country." - John Kerry, Legislative Proposals Relating to the War in Southeast Asia Thursday, April 22, 1971 United States Senate, Committee on Foreign Relations, Washington, D.C.

"And there is no reason that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the – of – the historical customs, religious customs, whether you like it or not ... Iraqis should be doing that." - John Kerry, "Face the Nation", December 4, 2005.


Mr. Kerry said: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”


There ya go Kerry defined...whats he going to run for now ?

YOU know thats just what he's going to see every time he runs .

Like it or not this is what Kerry will see every time he runs for office .

his political future is a steaming turd. And whats worse he is painting the Democrats as troop haters at a time when they are doing well and he is energizing pissed off Republicans who wouldn't have gotten out to vote to vote...all because of him...what a fucking loser...he lost to Bush in 2004 ..now he;s doing his best to ruin it for the Democrats in 2006.
Howard Dean should take him hunting and do a Chenney on him ...aim for his mouth.

There ya go Kerry defined...whats he going to run for now ?

YOU know thats just what he's going to see every time he runs .
If it keeps him out of the 2008 primaries, good. I didn't like him in 2004 and I like him even less now after he pulled an el foldo in Ohio. But let's keep the criticism legitimate--what he said two days ago was not an insult of the troops, but of their Commander in Chief, and a well-deserved one.

First of all, as others here have noted, Kerry has nothing to apologize for. But secondly, an apology is a poor political move, and I'll tell you why. As long as this stays in the news, so does Iraq, and the last thing the Republicans want right now is an election that's a referendum on Iraq war policy, because they lose that argument every single time. 60% of Americans think Iraq was a bad idea now, and want a plan to get out. So yeah, let's keep Iraq on the front pages for the next week at least. Please. Keep this story out there.

This is why I think he should apologize. Let's say that I made a joke with some friends. A few friends laugh, but one or two didn't find it funny and were offended by it. Now technically I don't have to apologize, but I do anyways. Why, because 1. it's the right thing to do and 2. I was raised that when you made a mistake, like Mr. Kerry did, then you should owe up to it. Also, do you really think this will keep Iraq in the news, or just Kerry in the news. Because ever since this has happened, the main focal point has been Kerry, not Iraq, but Kerry.

This is why I think he should apologize. Let's say that I made a joke with some friends. A few friends laugh, but one or two didn't find it funny and were offended by it. Now technically I don't have to apologize, but I do anyways. Why, because 1. it's the right thing to do and 2. I was raised that when you made a mistake, like Mr. Kerry did, then you should owe up to it. Also, do you really think this will keep Iraq in the news, or just Kerry in the news. Because ever since this has happened, the main focal point has been Kerry, not Iraq, but Kerry.

Kerry's only been the focal point on Fox News. All the others have moved on.

This is why I think he should apologize. Let's say that I made a joke with some friends. A few friends laugh, but one or two didn't find it funny and were offended by it. Now technically I don't have to apologize, but I do anyways. Why, because 1. it's the right thing to do and 2. I was raised that when you made a mistake, like Mr. Kerry did, then you should owe up to it. Also, do you really think this will keep Iraq in the news, or just Kerry in the news. Because ever since this has happened, the main focal point has been Kerry, not Iraq, but Kerry.

Then your friends that didn't laugh would be douches, because they weren't listening to you and only heard the part that, when taken out of context, would offend them.

He could apologize a la Pope, and say he's sorry that they misunderstood and were offended, but he doesn't have to say he did or say anything wrong or incorrect, because he didn't.

Then your friends that didn't laugh would be douches, because they weren't listening to you and only heard the part that, when taken out of context, would offend them.

He could apologize a la Pope, and say he's sorry that they misunderstood and were offended, but he doesn't have to say he did or say anything wrong or incorrect, because he didn't.

Eh fair enough.

Yeah, pretty much. The only people who join the military are either stupid, poor, or crazy. Sometimes all three.

Yeah, pretty much. The only people who join the military are either stupid, poor, or crazy. Sometimes all three.

Or those that don't read a thread before posting.

First of all, as others here have noted, Kerry has nothing to apologize for. But secondly, an apology is a poor political move, and I'll tell you why. As long as this stays in the news, so does Iraq, and the last thing the Republicans want right now is an election that's a referendum on Iraq war policy, because they lose that argument every single time. 60% of Americans think Iraq was a bad idea now, and want a plan to get out. So yeah, let's keep Iraq on the front pages for the next week at least. Please. Keep this story out there.

^ What he said. ^

As a democrat, I would be perfectly happy if Kerry got up and said "OK, what I meant to say came out wrong, I had intended to attack the administration that has lead this country into a quagmire of a war. My words came out wrong and some have interpreted what I have said as an attack on our soldiers. This was not my intention, and I am sorry for anyone who was offended by this misinterpretation".

However he should not, ever, get up there and say "I'm sorry for insulting the soldiers".

As a democrat, I would be perfectly happy if Kerry got up and said "OK, what I meant to say came out wrong, I had intended to attack the administration that has lead this country into a quagmire of a war. My words came out wrong and some have interpreted what I have said as an attack on our soldiers. This was not my intention, and I am sorry for anyone who was offended by this misinterpretation".

However he should not, ever, get up there and say "I'm sorry for insulting the soldiers".

He's said something very similar, but the right-wing isn't satisfied because he attacked them again. He essentially said "I'm not going to take any shit from a bunch of people who've fucked up the situation and who didn't serve when they had the chance." You can imagine why they've reacted negatively.

He's said something very similar, but the right-wing isn't satisfied because he attacked them again. He essentially said "I'm not going to take any shit from a bunch of people who've fucked up the situation and who didn't serve when they had the chance." You can imagine why they've reacted negatively.

Even though they deserved it.

As a democrat, I would be perfectly happy if Kerry got up and said "OK, what I meant to say came out wrong, I had intended to attack the administration that has lead this country into a quagmire of a war. My words came out wrong and some have interpreted what I have said as an attack on our soldiers. This was not my intention, and I am sorry for anyone who was offended by this misinterpretation".

However he should not, ever, get up there and say "I'm sorry for insulting the soldiers".
He was, IIRC, quoted out of context. His original statement contained a caveat that he was referring to not the soldiers, but the administration.

Gotta love spin machines.

He was, IIRC, quoted out of context. His original statement contained a caveat that he was referring to not the soldiers, but the administration.

Gotta love spin machines.

No, he was not "quoted out of context". He spoke out of context of the written speech.

Speaking of spinning things.

No, he was not "quoted out of context". He spoke out of context of the written speech.

Speaking of spinning things.
Spoke a bit off from his scripted speech (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2432208,00.html), but I believe still fairly clear on who he was attacking.

Again, I repeat... this is the product of a desperate right-wing spin machine eager to try and forestall a changeover in power. The quote was not (and never has been) study hard, get good grades, or go to Iraq; it was "get stuck in" in both versions.

Spoke a bit off from his scripted speech (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2432208,00.html), but I believe still fairly clear on who he was attacking.

Again, I repeat... this is the product of a desperate right-wing spin machine eager to try and forestall a changeover in power. The quote was not (and never has been) study hard, get good grades, or go to Iraq; it was "get stuck in" in both versions.

But that's not what you said. You stated that his original statement contained the caveat that it reffered to the administration. He did not include that part of his speech and therefore provided another soundbite to his repetoire of stupid soundbites. Even his office admits that he neglected to use the whole thing.

But that's not what you said. You stated that his original statement contained the caveat that it reffered to the administration.
I did, and I was wrong when I said that. Of course.

However, the original speech did contain the caveat as written, and he has clarified several times now that yes, the joke really did refer to Bush himself... so there's really no reason to try and seize on it as an insult to the troops rather than Bush. To do so is simply dishonest.

I did, and I was wrong when I said that. Of course.

However, the original speech did contain the caveat as written, and he has clarified several times now that yes, the joke really did refer to Bush himself... so there's really no reason to try and seize on it as an insult to the troops rather than Bush. To do so is simply dishonest.

Nopt to mention the surrounding material was all jokes aimed at Bush. It simply doesn't make sense that Kerry, someone who left Yale and enlisted for combat, would go completely off track and decide to insult the troops' education and intelligence.

Nopt to mention the surrounding material was all jokes aimed at Bush. It simply doesn't make sense that Kerry, someone who left Yale and enlisted for combat, would go completely off track and decide to insult the troops' education and intelligence.
Since when did whether or not an attack made sense make a difference to Rove and Co.?

Since when did whether or not an attack made sense make a difference to Rove and Co.?

I think Kerry should go into business, twice, and use federal money to keep it afloat as long as possible, until one day it just snaps and the business goes under quicker than you can say "Swift Boat". At least then him and Bush would be on equal grounds, and any attacks made by Bush would be at least considered.

If it keeps him out of the 2008 primaries, good. I didn't like him in 2004 and I like him even less now after he pulled an el foldo in Ohio. But let's keep the criticism legitimate--what he said two days ago was not an insult of the troops, but of their Commander in Chief, and a well-deserved one.


Explain that to these guys..

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20061101TroopsMessage.jpg


BTW ...taken in context it seems he was trying to make a Joke about Bush....but being a professional politicion he should have gone straight out and did the apology and told the joke right...he would have been on every TV show looking human...instaed Herman Munster screwed the pooch and gave the Dem's another quote for the Republicans to use to show that the Democrats hate our troops don't support them ...yadda yadda...democrats suck on national security ...yadda yadda...this idiot could have been president...see we were right all along....

You know the drill. he's a frigging dope. They should duct tape his mouth shut until after the election.

he didn't say that all people on Iraq had failed in academia. What he said is if you do fail in academia, you have a high chance of ending up in Iraq.

All squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares.

No. He meant it as a dig at Bush.

I think Kerry should go into business, twice, and use federal money to keep it afloat as long as possible, until one day it just snaps and the business goes under quicker than you can say "Swift Boat". At least then him and Bush would be on equal grounds, and any attacks made by Bush would be at least considered.


Bush is a two term President...Kerry is a loser and an idiot. If the Democrats were smart they would put him on a swift boat and sink it .

Bush is a two term President...Kerry is a loser and an idiot. If the Democrats were smart they would put him on a swift boat and sink it .

I think this is why his detractors are so passionately hysterical.

And have no shortages of theories as to why us unintelligent people who wound up in Iraq voted for him.

Explain that to these guys..

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20061101TroopsMessage.jpg


BTW ...taken in context it seems he was trying to make a Joke about Bush....but being a professional politicion he should have gone straight out and did the apology and told the joke right...he would have been on every TV show looking human...instaed Herman Munster screwed the pooch and gave the Dem's another quote for the Republicans to use to show that the Democrats hate our troops don't support them ...yadda yadda...democrats suck on national security ...yadda yadda...this idiot could have been president...see we were right all along....

You know the drill. he's a frigging dope. They should duct tape his mouth shut until after the election.

Stop posting that idiotic response to a mistake of a picture, you look like a moron.

Bush is a two term President...Kerry is a loser and an idiot. If the Democrats were smart they would put him on a swift boat and sink it .

He's a two-term president, voted in by the supreme court and people who are afraid of gays getting married. Not the best resume.

I think Kerry should go into business, twice, and use federal money to keep it afloat as long as possible, until one day it just snaps and the business goes under quicker than you can say "Swift Boat". At least then him and Bush would be on equal grounds, and any attacks made by Bush would be at least considered.

he doesnt have to-he was smarter and latched onto an homely heiress teat.

he doesnt have to-he was smarter and latched onto an homely heiress teat.

Not everyone has a rich and politically influencial father to latch onto instead, unfortunately.

Not everyone has a rich and politically influencial father to latch onto instead, unfortunately.

You're right, so some are forced to prostitute themselves. Eeeew.

You're right, so some are forced to prostitute themselves. Eeeew.

Yeah, working for the money, as opposed to just having it handed to you your entire life, while you do drugs and drive drunk and party your ass off through college and have your dad's influence get you to pass.

I think the prostitution is more honorable in this situation, even though I'm merely humoring you, and give no credence to the idea that his marriages involved the goal of money.