NationStates Jolt Archive

Just a thought ... Are some people trying to hard not to come across as racist, sexist, etc.? I think some people try so hard not to offend certain people that they make them feel uncomfortable instead.
Your thoughts?

Political correctness is for pussy prats who are overly sensitive and can't take the fact that humanity isn't all that diverse and that we are all fucking assholes that couldn't give a damn.

I think the whole concept of "political correctness" is just a distraction. It's a buzz word (buzz phrase?) that people war over, while letting the actual subject drop away.

As far as I'm concerned, it's just about rudeness. When people tell you to knock it off with the racist jokes, they're saying, "Quit being such a jackass." When they tell you to quit making sexist or homophobic comments, they're saying "Grow up or go play in the sandbox." It's not about whether or not you're "politically correct," it's about whether you've managed to internalize the basic minimum standards for conduct that are expected of adults in our society. If you haven't, don't blame other people for pointing out your failing. Just try to learn from your mistakes.

I think people are now too worried about the most politically correct way to say something rather than just respecting an individual and taking into consideration what they personally would find offensive.

Political correctness is for pussy prats who are overly sensitive and can't take the fact that humanity isn't all that diverse and that we are all fucking assholes that couldn't give a damn.

Quoted for truth.

I think people are now too worried about the most politically correct way to say something rather than just respecting an individual and taking into consideration what they personally would find offensive.
I dunno, I think "political correctness" at least originally just referred to some minimum standards for public behavior.

It's like how if you pick your nose and then wipe it on your desk, you can't really be surprised when your officemate says "Eeew." If you tell a racist joke, you can't really be surprised to get a similar reaction. Maybe you like to pick your nose, and maybe you like being racist, but when you're out in public you're going to be expected to follow certain codes of conduct.

I dunno, I think "political correctness" at least originally just referred to some minimum standards for public behavior.

It's like how if you pick your nose and then wipe it on your desk, you can't really be surprised when your officemate says "Eeew." If you tell a racist joke, you can't really be surprised to get a similar reaction. Maybe you like to pick your nose, and maybe you like being racist, but when you're out in public you're going to be expected to follow certain codes of conduct.

The difference being that you don't get hauled into court for wiping a booger on your desk.

I think the whole concept of "political correctness" is just a distraction. It's a buzz word (buzz phrase?) that people war over, while letting the actual subject drop away.

As far as I'm concerned, it's just about rudeness. When people tell you to knock it off with the racist jokes, they're saying, "Quit being such a jackass." When they tell you to quit making sexist or homophobic comments, they're saying "Grow up or go play in the sandbox." It's not about whether or not you're "politically correct," it's about whether you've managed to internalize the basic minimum standards for conduct that are expected of adults in our society. If you haven't, don't blame other people for pointing out your failing. Just try to learn from your mistakes.

Agreed absolutely

You have the right to say what you want … but I also reserve the right to tell you to shut the hell up and be civil to people.

What is "political correctness" anyway?

Most (if not all) of the times I've seen someone complain over being subjected to "political correctness" the terms they've been using have been inaccurate, incorrect or simply sweeping generalizations. So can someone explain?

The difference being that you don't get hauled into court for wiping a booger on your desk.
I have yet to see anybody hauled into court for simply being politically incorrect.

Now, if they are engaging in illegal sex discrimination or race discrimination, that's a whole other subject. If they are involved in harassment that is another matter.

But saying politically incorrect things is 100% legal, at least where I live. I say politically incorrect things on pretty much an hourly basis, and I've yet to be in any trouble with the law for it.

The difference being that you don't get hauled into court for wiping a booger on your desk.

You been hauled into court for saying '******'? Has anyone?

The difference being that you don't get hauled into court for wiping a booger on your desk.

I don't think anyones been hauled into court for making a racist joke.

I think the whole concept of "political correctness" is just a distraction. It's a buzz word (buzz phrase?) that people war over, while letting the actual subject drop away.

As far as I'm concerned, it's just about rudeness. When people tell you to knock it off with the racist jokes, they're saying, "Quit being such a jackass." When they tell you to quit making sexist or homophobic comments, they're saying "Grow up or go play in the sandbox." It's not about whether or not you're "politically correct," it's about whether you've managed to internalize the basic minimum standards for conduct that are expected of adults in our society. If you haven't, don't blame other people for pointing out your failing. Just try to learn from your mistakes.

Well yes and no....

A perfect example is the new age laws in the UK...

If I need a technician with good experience I ask for a senior technician....now I cannot do that as it is discriminatory...

As for telling off racists...that has nothing to do with PC...that has more to do with understanding we are all human...

You been hauled into court for saying '******'? Has anyone?
George Allen recently made EXTREMELY politically incorrect statements in front of large audiences, which were later broadcast by major media and shared with the entire country. Not only is he not in jail, but he's still a political representative!

George Allen recently made EXTREMELY politically incorrect statements in front of large audiences, which were later broadcast by major media and shared with the entire country. Not only is he not in jail, but he's still a political representative!

Also bear in mind that the KKK hasn't been arrested en masse ever in this nation's history.....If they aren't politically incorrect I don't know what is.

Also bear in mind that the KKK hasn't been arrested en masse ever in this nation's history.....If they aren't politically incorrect I don't know what is.

99% of rap artists.

Also the change in law concerning age is utterly ridiculous. Surly there must be some limits and necessary factors for getting a job, some jobs NEED a male or female in order to give the best possible care for patients ... I'm thinking of possibly rape victims. Obviously there has to be a justified reason for not employing a person, but employers should have the right to say no.

George Allen recently made EXTREMELY politically incorrect statements in front of large audiences, which were later broadcast by major media and shared with the entire country. Not only is he not in jail, but he's still a political representative!

Good example! Carlin is also a fine example of how we don't jail the politically incorrect.

What people often see is a college - usually State funded - being sued over unfair enrollment practices or a company CEO being fired for sexism or a sports figure being fined and forced to make a public retraction for racism and they take those examples and call it "PC run amock!"

If you're at home with your friends and you say, "Hey ... ok ... two niggers walk into a bar ..." you are absolutely correct above in saying you may get a harsh reaction, or your friends may just gaffaw along, who knows?

But if you do it at work, the company has every right to suspend or fire you. People call this "PC thuggery". I agree with you. I believe it should be called "common decency". Oh wait ....

I have yet to see anybody hauled into court for simply being politically incorrect.

Now, if they are engaging in illegal sex discrimination or race discrimination, that's a whole other subject. If they are involved in harassment that is another matter.

But saying politically incorrect things is 100% legal, at least where I live. I say politically incorrect things on pretty much an hourly basis, and I've yet to be in any trouble with the law for it.

You been hauled into court for saying '******'? Has anyone?

In many states in the US, you can have an extra charge slapped onto you if you beat up, say, a gay or black person -- "hate crime." You're not even being charged for what you said. You're being charged for a thought crime. And that's thrown at you simply because the victim was, in those examples, gay or black.

And yes, Keruvalia, you can be sued in civil court for using the term "******" towards a black person in the US. It's considered a civil-rights violation. Hell, it's even ruined one of the best race-based satirical movies ever: Blazin' Saddles. You can't see that on TV (at least in the US) without the word "******" being bleeped out. It kills the point, which is that people who think that way are idiots. It's just a fuckin' word. It's not gonna kill anyone.

People should accept that other people have different views. If it isn't in accordence with the main stream then it isn't suddenly politically incorrect its just different.

thought crime. And that's thrown at you simply because the victim was, in those examples, gay or black.

A South Park episode comes to mind! lol :)

Good example! Carlin is also a fine example of how we don't jail the politically incorrect.


Carlin was also the reason the FCC banned the use of certain words on broadcast media.

And yes, Keruvalia, you can be sued in civil court for using the term "******" towards a black person in the US.

A civil suit is between two private citizens, not the government.

In many states in the US, you can have an extra charge slapped onto you if you beat up, say, a gay or black person -- "hate crime." You're not even being charged for what you said. You're being charged for a thought crime. And that's thrown at you simply because the victim was, in those examples, gay or black.

Not necessarily. If you happen to beat up a black person, then it is treated as a normal case of assault. If you are a member of a skin-head organization and have "I Hate Niggers" tattooed on your forehead and beat up a black guy who was just having lunch with his white girlfriend, that's probably a hate crime.

And yes, Keruvalia, you can be sued in civil court for using the term "******" towards a black person in the US. It's considered a civil-rights violation. Hell, it's even ruined one of the best race-based satirical movies ever: Blazin' Saddles You can't see that on TV (at least in the US) without the word "******" being bleeped out. It kills the point, which is that people who think that way are idiots. It's just a fuckin' word. It's not gonna kill anyone.

The FCC deems a great many things improper, but that's for major network television. The FCC doesn't control basic cable, Standards and Practices does. Nothing stops you from buying the DVD.

As for being sued in civil court for calling a black man "******", show one case. Just one. A successful suit. Like, maybe, against the KKK, who use it in public through bullhorns all the time.

You been hauled into court for saying '******'? Has anyone?

I think a few employers have been.

I think a few employers have been.

Possibly, but that would be covered under the federal guidelines on racial discrimination in the workplace and the employer should have known better. Has nothing to do with PC, has more to do with we are only very recently (as some forget) in the United States coming off a time when you, as an employer, could turn down someone for a job *just* for being black - and even more recently, *just* for being a woman - whether capable or not.

Recent history. Not some long ago place in a galaxy far, far away.

Do people agree that people are way too willing to take people to court and sue them? I think fair enough for people who are fired for no good reason or abused ... but I think people are just too plain greedy for money.

Not necessarily. If you happen to beat up a black person, then it is treated as a normal case of assault. If you are a member of a skin-head organization and have "I Hate Niggers" tattooed on your forehead and beat up a black guy who was just having lunch with his white girlfriend, that's probably a hate crime.

That's just plain wrong. As soon as race gets involved, it becomes a "hate crime" in many states.

The FCC deems a great many things improper, but that's for major network television. The FCC doesn't control basic cable, Standards and Practices does. Nothing stops you from buying the DVD.

Wow...you really have no understanding of communications law, do you?

As for being sued in civil court for calling a black man "******", show one case. Just one. A successful suit. Like, maybe, against the KKK, who use it in public through bullhorns all the time.

Howsabout I give you one from the ACLU (http://www.aclu.org/workplacerights/sexdiscrim/13420prs20040511.html)? Care to try again?

It's all nice that you try to throw the KKK in there to distort the issue. :rolleyes:

The sue-happy culture is a result of "court tv" that glorifies the civil lawsuit process, making it alluring to the average Joe Smuck.

I think a few employers have been.

And then, even though they didn't even say it, there's Cracker Barrel and Denny's.

That's just plain wrong. As soon as race gets involved, it becomes a "hate crime" in many states.
Can you cite?

That's just plain wrong. As soon as race gets involved, it becomes a "hate crime" in many states.

Cite specific laws, specific States, and specific cases.

Wow...you really have no understanding of communications law, do you?

Ummm ... invalid argument. Kind of led yourself into a dead-end there. You have no idea what my understanding of communications law could be.

Howsabout I give you one from the ACLU (http://www.aclu.org/workplacerights/sexdiscrim/13420prs20040511.html)?

Fascinating .... I actually covered this in post #18. A pending lawsuit over hostile and discriminatory working conditions does not "PC Thuggery" make.

It's all nice that you try to throw the KKK in there to distort the issue. :rolleyes:

The Klan is a perfectly legitamite example.

Should we have a law that puts people in prison OR some kind of penalty for incorrect statements?
I don't think we should or its taking away freedom of speech, but on the other hand will it make future generations more accepting of people who are considered different?

Why do I bother trying to debate with those who are devoid of reason?

Why do I bother trying to debate with those who are devoid of reason?

I'd try to work in an MPD joke here, but I'm tired and can't think of a good one. Plus, it'd probably be flaming or something.

What is "political correctness" anyway?

Most (if not all) of the times I've seen someone complain over being subjected to "political correctness" the terms they've been using have been inaccurate, incorrect or simply sweeping generalizations. So can someone explain?

Political Correctness in the USA is the philosophy of carefully choosing your words in such a way as to avoid giving offense to someone, whether intentional or unintentional. For example, the use of the term "african american" being more in-line with that philosophy than "black person."

Political Correctness has begun to carry a negative connotation because sometimes people take it to an extreme, and people find themselves having to be far more guarded in their choice of words than they reasonably should be.

Historical Irony: The term "Political Correct" was first coined by none other than Vladimir Lenin, and with a much different meaning.

As for the OP: I think it is a problem sometimes. My fatrher is from South America but if you look at me you might not realize it as I take after my mother, who is caucasian. Sometimes people will use different terms to refer to latin americans before they know of my ancestry and after they find out. I find that irritating. For example, someone once stopped using the term "latino" and started saying "latin american" after they found out where my dad is from. Who cares? "latino" is just a word and I don't think most people even have a problem with it, but the whoel PC issue has a lot of people so on edge that they're much more paranoid than is warranted.

I think that while "political correctness" has at times gone too far, there is also a trend these days to disguise plain rudeness as "just my opinion" and to brand anyone who calls you on the rudeness as being too PC. There's a lack of civility these days that dismays me.

I don't know if any states have enacted it, but there are states where people have tried to push the idea of hate crimes legislation based on any crime committed where the appearance of racism is involved.

I remember in the 2000 election someone was criticizing Bush as Governor of Texas because he had vetoed a bill that would have imposed harsher puhishments for convicted murderers where the crime was determined to be a hate crime. His reasoning: "If you kill someone, that's hate."

I think the idea of hate crime legislation is an example of mass hysteria precisely becaue motives are often unclear and difficult to prove. (Usually if motive is easily proven, it's a result of some other factor like jealousy, greed, etc.)

someone's a big fat liar.

this is the "hauled into court for saying ******" case the liar posted earlier:

"While the ACLU rarely enters cases against private employers, the stories of sexual and racial discrimination involved here are so shocking and well-documented that we felt a duty to lend our assistance," said Maureen Sanders, ACLU of New Mexico Co-Legal Director. "Hopefully, the attention that ACLU involvement brings to this case will send a signal that sexual and racial harassment in professional sports will not be tolerated."

According to legal papers, female employees were not only paid significantly lower wages and given fewer privileges than male employees for performing the same jobs, but also regularly made to endure inappropriate comments and verbal abuse from their supervisors. Scorpions' General Manager Patrick Dunn and Community Liaison Tyler Boucher - both defendants in the lawsuit--regularly made lewd jokes around the women female and openly referred to them as "fucking bitches."

Looks like a pretty clear discrimination case involving things like PAY to me.

Shame on you.

someone's a big fat liar.

this is the "hauled into court for saying ******" case the liar posted earlier:

"While the ACLU rarely enters cases against private employers, the stories of sexual and racial discrimination involved here are so shocking and well-documented that we felt a duty to lend our assistance," said Maureen Sanders, ACLU of New Mexico Co-Legal Director. "Hopefully, the attention that ACLU involvement brings to this case will send a signal that sexual and racial harassment in professional sports will not be tolerated."

According to legal papers, female employees were not only paid significantly lower wages and given fewer privileges than male employees for performing the same jobs, but also regularly made to endure inappropriate comments and verbal abuse from their supervisors. Scorpions' General Manager Patrick Dunn and Community Liaison Tyler Boucher - both defendants in the lawsuit--regularly made lewd jokes around the women female and openly referred to them as "fucking bitches."

Looks like a pretty clear discrimination case involving things like PAY to me.

Shame on you.

Wow, yeah, I followed that link and was totally confused. How the hell does that constitute an example of being hauled into court for saying something politically incorrect?! Employees were sexually harassed, refused equal pay, denied promotions based on gender, and "pressured to date team patrons as well as to cheat in ticket and pro shop sales to give some of the defendants an edge in sales."

One plantiff in that case, Robert Haddock, did say that Dunn and Boucher of made racially prejudiced remarks toward him. However, they also did things like, "repeatedly swept Haddock's business cards from the front desk of the office and denied him access to a computer and a phone."

This wasn't a case of somebody getting sued for simply saying something politically incorrect. This was a case where numerous employees were abused and degraded constantly, and denied anything approaching reasonable treatment in the work place. The fact that some people appear unable to see the distinction is frightening to me.

Wow, yeah, I followed that link and was totally confused. How the hell does that constitute an example of being hauled into court for saying something politically incorrect?! Employees were sexually harassed, refused equal pay, denied promotions based on gender, and "pressured to date team patrons as well as to cheat in ticket and pro shop sales to give some of the defendants an edge in sales."

One plantiff in that case, Robert Haddock, did say that Dunn and Boucher of made racially prejudiced remarks toward him. However, they also did things like, "repeatedly swept Haddock's business cards from the front desk of the office and denied him access to a computer and a phone."

This wasn't a case of somebody getting sued for simply saying something politically incorrect. This was a case where numerous employees were abused and degraded constantly, and denied anything approaching reasonable treatment in the work place. The fact that some people appear unable to see the distinction is frightening to me.

At any rate, no need to be confused. Just a case of old fashioned lying.

The whole topic of "politically correct" is really determined on where you are from. As far as race goes, alot of the southern states, including my home state of North Carolina, everything is pretty much rigged for caucasians. Do i agree with this system? No i do not. And keep in mind that racism isn't as bad in the bigger cities like Charlotte or Raliegh, but still pretty bad. For the small towns, you hear even the cops use the work "******" or "spic" regularly, so as far as suing for a "hate crime" related activity, good luck on that. And for just politically correct statements, most of the south is very old fashioned and closed minded (again, keep in mind that not everyone here is like that, just the majority). If it goes against the "bible belt" thinking that is common place there, it's sure to flare up tempers. So really, how can anyone define "political correctness" when it differs greatly from region to region?

He didn’t go to jail but he lost his job for using a word that just sounded similar to a word that was a racial slur.

That is Political Correctness run amok.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggardly

I think the idea of hate crime legislation is an example of mass hysteria precisely becaue motives are often unclear and difficult to prove. (Usually if motive is easily proven, it's a result of some other factor like jealousy, greed, etc.)

we already take motive into account in pretty much every crime. certain motives get you harsher sentences, others get you off a bit easier. why should racism and homophobia and the like be any different?

He didn’t go to jail but he lost his job for using a word that just sounded similar to a word that was a racial slur.

That is Political Correctness run amok.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggardly

I would think it was ignorance run amok.

Had he said "niggerly" or something similar, he should have been fired.

Who wants to work for a moron who cant tell one from the other anyway, though.

Wow...you really have no understanding of communications law, do you?


Howsabout I give you one from the ACLU (http://www.aclu.org/workplacerights/sexdiscrim/13420prs20040511.html)? Care to try again?

It's all nice that you try to throw the KKK in there to distort the issue. :rolleyes:

Why do I bother trying to debate with those who are devoid of reason?

What do you mean, "debate"? :confused: ;)

He didn’t go to jail but he lost his job for using a word that just sounded similar to a word that was a racial slur.

That is Political Correctness run amok.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggardly

As I recall, he was also promptly offered his job back once his employer bothered to look the damn word up in the dictionary. This wasn't so much "PC run amok" as ignorance run amok.


ETA: I see I was already beaten to precisely this comment. D'oh! :p