NationStates Jolt Archive

Israeli fighter planes intimidate German helicopter over Lebanese skies

BERLIN, Oct 29 (KUNA) -- German airforce patrolling the Lebanese coasts as part of UNIFIL peace mission had been initimated by Israeli fighter planes last Friday, the German defense ministry confirmed on Sunday.

A defense ministry spokesman told the semi-official German T.V. station Z.D.

F. today that a German navy helicopter was intimidated by the Israeli planes.

The German Die Welt weekly magazine, which reported the incident, said German defense ministry officials were "astonished" by the Israeli annoyance.

Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz had telephoned his German counterpart for assurances that Israeli warplanes would not intercept German ships operating at the Lebanese coasts, the magazine said.

The German defense ministry a few days ago said six Israeli jetfighters were involved in an armed incident with a German ship patrolling off Lebanon as part of the UN force in the Arab country.

The Israeli warplanes fired shots as well as anti-missile defence flares while flying low over the German vessel, the defense ministry said.

Sources YahooNEWS/KuwaitNEWS/OcceanNEWS

my2cents: Poor Germans.. maybe they need to ask Hezbollah for protection.

Someone already made a thread about this

Someone already made a thread about thisme bad

Reminds me of the near sinking of the American spy ship USS Liberty back in the 67' by the israeli's. They seem to shoot first ask questions later.Also apoligize of course if need be. Question is why didn't the Germans shoot there own warning shots?

Question is why didn't the Germans shoot there own warning shots?they are too scared to be called "Antisemite".

Reminds me of the near sinking of the American spy ship USS Liberty back in the 67' by the israeli's. They seem to shoot first ask questions later.Also apoligize of course if need be. Question is why didn't the Germans shoot there own warning shots?

Depends on what kind of Air-to-Air equipment the ship had.

Furthermore, the incident with the Liberty is easily attributed to frayed nerves, confusion, intelligence failures and on the spot decision making by the pilots.

Depends on what kind of Air-to-Air equipment the ship had.maybe the French ships are better equiped than the German or US ships.

or... maybe they are more likely to strike back.
In any event the Israelis will think twice before making "mistakes" around the french Military.

maybe the French ships are better equiped.

or... maybe they are more likely to fire back.
In any event the Israelis will think twice before making "mistakes" around the french Military.

:rolleyes:

Not all ships are tasked with Anti-air roles. Some are surface patrol ships, some are ASW ships, some are communications ships. That's how it is with every navy in the world

:rolleyes:

Not all ships are tasked with Anti-air roles. Some are surface patrol ships, some are ASW ships, some are communications ships. That's how it is with every navy in the worldyou need two things.
#1 the guns
#2 the willingness to strike back.

German Navy is lacking at least one of them

you need two things.
#1 the guns
#2 the willingness to strike back.

German Navy is lacking at least one of them

To be fair that SHIP was lacking in one of them (though you can argue why such a ship if it is the guns was alone but yeah)

Reminds me of the near sinking of the American spy ship USS Liberty back in the 67' by the israeli's. They seem to shoot first ask questions later.Also apoligize of course if need be. Question is why didn't the Germans shoot there own warning shots?
I thought the same thing.
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Neu Leonstien is not a someone.


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The ship was a Frigate or smaller, they cant do squat.

maybe the French ships are better equiped than the German or US ships.

or... maybe they are more likely to strike back.
In any event the Israelis will think twice before making "mistakes" around the french Military.

I have news for you, I wouldn't be afraid of any shipboard SAM unless it was an Aegis DDG or CG.

I have news for you, I wouldn't be afraid of any shipboard SAM unless it was an Aegis DDG or CG.:rolleyes: Why-the-heck should you be afraid ?

You are safe sitting on your ass in front of your Computer.. Dont take your nickname too seriously.. you are not the pilot flying the chopper or the F16.

I have news for you, I wouldn't be afraid of any shipboard SAM unless it was an Aegis DDG or CG.
The ship was unarmed. It was a recon/electronic surveillance ship. Vice Admiral Stricker said that perhaps the Israelis just don't like the idea of a ship hanging around that can track their overflights and listen in on all sorts of communications.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,445473,00.html

This is more or less the whole story as it went on so far. There have been two confrontations of Israeli jets with German helicopters (one hilariously including a radar lock-on of the helicopter that had the commander of the German UNIFIL contingent on board) and the incident with the 'Alster', of which a video was shot (but not released).

The scuttling of the High Seas Fleet in Scapa Flow was one of the most exquisitely honorable acts recorded in modern war.

The german navy has a great tradition of excellence. Take the Emden, with its brilliant captain von Muller and the glorious adventure of his lieutenant von Mücke.

Shame on him who thinks ill of it!

Shame on him who thinks ill of it!
Hehe, yeah, those were the days. Today...well...:D

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,435368,00.html
Here in Warnemünde, Merkel tells the assembled sailors that she is confident that "the navy is prepared to assume responsibility."

Out at sea the navy was showing off the capabilities of two of its speedboats, the "Zobel" and the "Frettchen." One of the two craft shot magnesium flares into the air to demonstrate the navy's latest method of distracting enemy rockets. Germany has promised to send three or four of these boats to Lebanon as part of the United Nations peacekeeping contingent being assembled there.

It's a daring promise on Germany's part, given the problems the boats have experienced on previous missions in the Mediterranean. At high speeds, the crafts' ribs broke in the Mediterranean's heavy swells. Since then, the ships are no longer permitted to travel with full fuel tanks and have been forced to reduce their weapons payloads while in the region. Higher water temperatures have wreaked havoc on cooling systems for the vessels' electronic systems and diesel engines, forcing the speedboats to travel at reduced speeds.

The journey to the Levantine coast will be a long one. Because the boats cannot be operated without their full 34-man crews, they'll be forced to put in to port every two days. The trip for these so-called "speedboats" will be everything but speedy and will take an estimated two weeks. But no one is likely to care much about the delay, because these are not the types of ships that will be needed for one of the peacekeeping force's key tasks in Lebanon, which is to search other vessels. The rocket launcher on the afterdeck takes up so much space that there is no room for a rubber dinghy that would enable the German sailors to board a suspicious ship. The two frigates' "Sea Lynx" helicopters, which will also be redeployed to the eastern Mediterranean in the coming days, will handle the task instead. But even these helicopters are not designed for such use and will have to make two flights to carry a complete twelve-member search and inspection team.

[...]

After the visit, Merkel said that it was her impression "that the navy operates with state-of-the-art technology." The chancellor was apparently impressed by her small excursion on the new high-tech frigate "Saxony."

No one told her that the software on the Saxony's firing control system still doesn't work. Apparently the manufacturer installed three different software systems on the frigate and its two sister ships, systems that are unable to communicate effectively with one another. Fixing the problem will take months, which means that the navy's three new super-ships won't be taking part in missions anytime soon.

The german navy has a great tradition of excellence. hmmm...
maybe that is why they send recon/electronic ships unarmed/unescorted.. or maybe that is why their Commander can be easily targeted by other other countries warplanes.

maybe that is why they send unarmed Ships unsecorted.. or maybe that is why their Commander can be easily targeted by other other countries warplanes.
It's not a combat mission, remember? They're there to watch out for smugglers in little boats and stop them.

Except of course that now apparently the rules are that they can't actually get close to the coast without the Lebanese asking them, meaning that smugglers could just run up and down along the coast. And after what happened to that Spanish patrol a few days ago, I wouldn't count on the Lebanese government helping out. :rolleyes:

And after what happened to that Spanish patrol a few days ago, I wouldn't count on the Lebanese government helping out. :rolleyes:huh? what happened?

maybe the French ships are better equiped than the German or US ships.

or... maybe they are more likely to strike back.
In any event the Israelis will think twice before making "mistakes" around the french Military.


i needed a laugh..thanks

the french military is as much an oxymoron as military intelligence.

the french will fight to the last drop of english blood!

and stop dragging out the foreign legion...it is but a handfull of guys that can fight...not a country 's worth

the french will fight to the last drop of english blood!ohh.. they have English soldiers at the Lebanon-Israel border?

I was aware they are figthing Bushie Wars.. but they are also fighting for Chirac now?

Figher jockeys are basically egotistical show-offs who do this kind of thing all the time.

Though not usually going so far as to fire off shots. Were they live ammunition? That seems to indicate a true discipline problem, whereas just buzzing around dropping flares is just atypical fighter jockey annoyances.

huh? what happened?
As I understand it, it went something like this:

*Happy Spanish soldiers drive along road for patrol*

Spanish Soldier: "Hey, who are those guys blocking the road?"

*Jeep stops*

Hezbollah Gunman: "This is our road. You can't go through here."

Spanish Soldier: "Excuse me?"

Hezbollah Gunman: "You heard me. Run along now."

*Spanish Soldier calls Lebanese Military*

Lebanese Military: "Yeah, no worries mate. We'll be there."

*Spanish soldiers wait*

*wait a bit more*

*still waiting, crickets start making noise*

Spanish Soldier: "Yeah, I don't reckon they're coming, hey."

*Spanish patrol turns around and returns to base*

As I understand it, it went something like this:

*Happy Spanish soldiers drive along road for patrol*

Spanish Soldier: "Hey, who are those guys blocking the road?"

*Jeep stops*

Hezbollah Gunman: "This is our road. You can't go through here."

Spanish Soldier: "Excuse me?"

Hezbollah Gunman: "You heard me. Run along now."

*Spanish Soldier calls Lebanese Military*

Lebanese Military: "Yeah, no worries mate. We'll be there."

*Spanish soldiers wait*

*wait a bit more*

*still waiting, crickets start making noise*

Spanish Soldier: "Yeah, I don't reckon they're coming, hey."

*Spanish patrol turns around and returns to base* Yeah.. is like if you are cornered in (East-LA) the barrios.. you may call 911.. but will they come?

Yeah is like if you are lost in (East-LA) the barrios.. you may call 911.. but will they come? :D
Well, the Hezbollah guys didn't do anything, they just wouldn't let the patrol through.

And since the Spaniards are sensible people and aren't going to start a war, they followed protocol and asked the Lebanese military to come in and clear the gunmen out.

The Lebanese just didn't do their job, and that's why I'm just a little bit sceptical right now of anything involves asking Beirut for permission first.

Yeah.. is like if you are cornered in (East-LA) the barrios.. you may call 911.. but will they come?

HEADSHOT!!!

HEADSHOT!!!
http://www.igniq.com/images/gta_san_andreas_pc_070605.jpg

ohh.. they have English soldiers at the Lebanon-Israel border?

I was aware they are figthing Bushie Wars.. but they are also fighting for Chirac now?

i was just making a snide remark about the french's fighting ability.

alot of people seem to think the french are a fighting force,and i am sure they have some bad asses in the legion...but really...politically...they are a joke.
thats the real issue...i have no doubt the french have some bad as forces(men and women)
but as a power projection force..they are lacking,due to the political leadership.

i was probably incorrect on posting on this thread,seeing how the french that dedicated how many soldiers?are gonna patrol and keep the peace between the israilis and the hezbollah fellas.
seeing how they are probably arming them...kinda like with saddam...but we wont discuss america is bad..lol

we armed saddam,so did the french(mirage fighters) and the russians(migs)and the big giant gun(dick) they tried to build.
i think the germans made that thing...lol...talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

fact of the matter is...we are all whores,no more then the other...and i understand why the people are pissed off..i would be.

please dont try to portray america as the evil doers(we are)and not all the other whores.

I have news for you, I wouldn't be afraid of any shipboard SAM unless it was an Aegis DDG or CG.

And you would be dead as well as fearless if you hold such low regard for the Bitish Type 45 or anything equipped with ESSMs.

but as a power projection force..they are lacking,due to the political leadership.
If France's interests are at stake, they don't play around. Just ask the survivors of what was once the Ivoirian airforce (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3989127.stm).

i was just making a snide remark about the french's fighting ability.

alot of people seem to think the french are a fighting force,and i am sure they have some bad asses in the legion...but really...politically...they are a joke.
thats the real issue...i have no doubt the french have some bad as forces(men and women)
but as a power projection force..they are lacking,due to the political leadership.

i was probably incorrect on posting on this thread,seeing how the french that dedicated how many soldiers?are gonna patrol and keep the peace between the israilis and the hezbollah fellas.
seeing how they are probably arming them...kinda like with saddam...but we wont discuss america is bad..lol

we armed saddam,so did the french(mirage fighters) and the russians(migs)and the big giant gun(dick) they tried to build.
i think the germans made that thing...lol...talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

fact of the matter is...we are all whores,no more then the other...and i understand why the people are pissed off..i would be.

please dont try to portray america as the evil doers(we are)and not all the other whores.fair enough. (I will try to NOT portray America as evil doers.. or at least try do it level with other Countries )

and yes... many other countries armed Saddam.

The ship was unarmed. It was a recon/electronic surveillance ship.

Ahhh... I thought the Israelis were being unusally brave buzzing a modern warship capeable of fighting back. Turns out they are simply applying their training in supressing kids armed with rocks into buzzing ships armed with nothing.

the french will fight to the last drop of english blood!

Funnily enough, the original quote went "The English will fight to the last drop of French blood", spread among the French armed forces as whisper propaganda by Germans during the summer of love in '39.

[/random bit of useless lore]

:rolleyes: Why-the-heck should you be afraid ?

You are safe sitting on your ass in front of your Computer.. Dont take your nickname too seriously.. you are not the pilot flying the chopper or the F16.

You really need to learn reading comprehension. You always seem to misinterpret what everyone writes.

If I was to fly over any Naval ship, I wouldn't want it to be an Aegis. As for the other stuff, I'm in NROTC and will hopefully be on a Burke or Tico in a few years.

And you would be dead as well as fearless if you hold such low regard for the Bitish Type 45 or anything equipped with ESSMs.

The Type 45 will be nice once completed, but the lead ship of the class is still about 3 years shy of deployment.

As for ESSM, its got some severe range limitations. It is basically the USAF's AIM-7 Sparrow converted into a SAM. Most ASMs can be launched well outside of the launch radius of the Sparrow. ESSM is best used as part of a point defense system against incoming ASMs.

The Type 45 will be nice once completed, but the lead ship of the class is still about 3 years shy of deployment.

As for ESSM, its got some severe range limitations. It is basically the USAF's AIM-7 Sparrow converted into a SAM. Most ASMs can be launched well outside of the launch radius of the Sparrow. ESSM is best used as part of a point defense system against incoming ASMs.

Even so, until very recently all US capital ships could fire Standard SAMs.

If I was to fly over any Naval ship, I wouldn't want it to be an Aegis. As for the other stuff, I'm in NROTC and will hopefully be on a Burke or Tico in a few years.in a few years it will be over.. they need you now.

in a few years it will be over.. they need you now.

A requirement for commissioning is graduating college. I can't go now unless you know of a way to get 5 semesters of engineering done in a week.

Even so, until very recently all US capital ships could fire Standard SAMs.

Carriers still have ESSMs for point defense. They are even putting them on some of the Aegis ships. (A box of 4 ESSMs fits in a single VLS cell).

The SM-3 should be the primary missile in a few years though. There is even talk of using the Standard Missile to shoot down ICBMs.