NationStates Jolt Archive

Would increasing tax on alcohol, specifically alcopops, help to combat the problem of binge drinking? The Health Secretary thinks so; and now, it seems, the Police do too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6091918.stm

People are doing real harm to themselves through binge drinking, not to mention the strain it puts on the already overstretched health system. While I personally don't believe that the above mentioned tax will do very much to reduce the problem, I would certainly support a system where people were required to pay for self-inflicted health issues like this. If it's your 'right' to screw around with your body like this, then I would say it's my 'right' to not to have to pay to clean you up.

Would increasing tax on alcohol, specifically alcopops, help to combat the problem of binge drinking? The Health Secretary thinks so; and now, it seems, the Police do too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6091918.stm

People are doing real harm to themselves through binge drinking, not to mention the strain it puts on the already overstretched health system. While I personally don't believe that the above mentioned tax will do very much to reduce the problem, I would certainly support a system where people were required to pay for self-inflicted health issues like this. If it's your 'right' to screw around with your body like this, then I would say it's my 'right' to not to have to pay to clean you up.


how about the tax apply only to those under 25?

It'd have to be a helluva tax to make much of a dent in either drinking or medical costs.

Boooooooooooooo.

Boooooooooooooo.


that's it, do a 25 second Keg Stand!

how about the tax apply only to those under 25?

I did hear an idea on the radio earlier regarding the requirement to have an 'alcohol licence' to drink, in the same way that you need a licence to drive. Essentially, the more irresponsible you proved yourself to be with drink, the more your licence would cost. I quite liked the sound of that.

What's next? The repeal of the repeal of prohibition? Relax -- allowing people to drink simply hastens the course of natural selection. The philosophical question to ask is: if an idiot drinks and decides to jump off a bridge, would anybody give a shit?

Edit: of course, this particular philosophy doesn't apply to people like Bush, who were simply experimenting with various drugs and alcohol and were not full-blown addicts like many people are.

Coudn't teens just get into their parent's booze and not really have to pay for it?
I don't know how it is in Britain but over here most underage bingedrinking comes from parental alcohol stocks, teens hardly ever pay for their booze...

What's next? The repeal of the repeal of prohibition? Relax -- allowing people to drink simply hastens the course of natural selection. The philosophical question to ask is: if an idiot drinks and decides to jump off a bridge, would anybody give a shit?

Hey, just think about the types of people in history who don't drink. Yeah, Hitler and bin Laden.
Meanwhile, Roosevelt and Churchill both loved their booze.

I did hear an idea on the radio earlier regarding the requirement to have an 'alcohol licence' to drink, in the same way that you need a licence to drive. Essentially, the more irresponsible you proved yourself to be with drink, the more your licence would cost. I quite liked the sound of that.

would help curb the number of DUI'd as well. though raising the cost would have no effect on the Paris Hilton/Lindsay Lohan drunks out there. They will always have a license no matter the cost so perhaps a strike system of sorts could be implemented.

then again, now government is getting too intrusive. just throw rowdy college kids into the "tanked tank" and threaten them with expulsion from school if they can't drink responsibly (assuming it is a wet campus).

Would increasing tax on alcohol, specifically alcopops, help to combat the problem of binge drinking? The Health Secretary thinks so; and now, it seems, the Police do too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6091918.stm

People are doing real harm to themselves through binge drinking, not to mention the strain it puts on the already overstretched health system. While I personally don't believe that the above mentioned tax will do very much to reduce the problem, I would certainly support a system where people were required to pay for self-inflicted health issues like this. If it's your 'right' to screw around with your body like this, then I would say it's my 'right' to not to have to pay to clean you up.

no, it would just make people like me bankrupt.

What's next? The repeal of the repeal of prohibition? Relax -- allowing people to drink simply hastens the course of natural selection. The philosophical question to ask is: if an idiot drinks and decides to jump off a bridge, would anybody give a shit?

Edit: of course, this particular philosophy doesn't apply to people like Bush, who were simply experimenting with various drugs and alcohol and were not full-blown addicts like many people are.

Ah, but it doesn't hasten them to their ends. Some, perhaps, but most just continue along, breeding all over the place. It's only once they've begotten a mob of brats that they kick off from cirrhosis or a car accident.

What's next? The repeal of the repeal of prohibition? Relax -- allowing people to drink simply hastens the course of natural selection. The philosophical question to ask is: if an idiot drinks and decides to jump off a bridge, would anybody give a shit?

Edit: of course, this particular philosophy doesn't apply to people like Bush, who were simply experimenting with various drugs and alcohol and were not full-blown addicts like many people are.

Do you have some kind of compulsion to bring up/suck up to Bush in every thread?

But back on topic, I think this is a good idea. If you're going to drink yourself into the gutter at least this way you'd be putting some money towards removing your corpse from said gutter.

Taxes like that don't work to reduce drinking or smoking. They only extort money out of drinkers and smokers and such. It's an easy way for governments to increase taxation without anyone making much of a fuss because everyone assumes there is something wrong with drinkers or smokers in the first place and therefore doesn't sympathize with them.

I did hear an idea on the radio earlier regarding the requirement to have an 'alcohol licence' to drink, in the same way that you need a licence to drive. Essentially, the more irresponsible you proved yourself to be with drink, the more your licence would cost. I quite liked the sound of that.

I dont see any kind of rationale that would suggest that the Gov't has any right to legislate this closely into the lifes of its citizens. We are supposed to gain more rights through the progression of society, not lose the ones we already have.

Hey, just think about the types of people in history who don't drink. Yeah, Hitler and bin Laden.
Meanwhile, Roosevelt and Churchill both loved their booze.

There is nothing wrong with drinking in moderation, or even drinking excessively as long as you can adequately "hold your booze." The real problem is encountered when people seriously over-do such substances as alcohol, resulting in adverse health effects. Only those who lack the capacity to monitor their intake of alcohol and become inebriated to the point when they are a danger to themselves are the ones whom natural selection should take care of.

There is nothing wrong with drinking in moderation, or even drinking excessively as long as you can adequately "hold your booze." The real problem is encountered when people seriously over-do such substances as alcohol, resulting in adverse health effects. Only those who lack the capacity to monitor their intake of alcohol and become inebriated to the point when they are a danger to themselves are the ones whom natural selection should take care of.

So natural selection is pretty much who can "hold their booze?" Wait. OK. You found something we agree on.

1. Have the tax found Alcoholics Anonymous type projects, rehab projects and pay for stomach pumps for drunks. Thats one productive use of the Tax.

2. I like the idea of a drinking license. too bad it just promotes more bootlegged alcohol and slipping money to the bar tenders when you dont have a license.

3. Not much you can do here so why bother.

1. Have the tax found Alcoholics Anonymous type projects, rehab projects and pay for stomach pumps for drunks. Thats one productive use of the Tax.

2. I like the idea of a drinking license. too bad it just promotes more bootlegged alcohol and slipping money to the bar tenders when you dont have a license.

3. Not much you can do here so why bother.

FUCK NO!!!

AA is a religious organization who's record of successfully "rehabilitating" alcoholics is lower than cold turkey. We already have more than enough faith based initiatives that don't do a damn bit of good and only pay back the religious right in cash for their support.

lol, Britian. This makes me want to drink:p

I'd drink whatever the cost. Winter does that to me.

And the bar for 'binge drinking' is over 2 units for a woman and 3 for a man. A bit low.

Jeez I wonder when people will realize that the answer to dealing with drug use isn't make the drug cost more.

I say *decrease* the drinks tax. That way the binge-drinkers can die from liver damage leaving us with no binge drinkers, as per our original aim. As a bonus, those of us who only drink in moderation get to save money.

Taxes like that don't work to reduce drinking or smoking. They only extort money out of drinkers and smokers and such. It's an easy way for governments to increase taxation without anyone making much of a fuss because everyone assumes there is something wrong with drinkers or smokers in the first place and therefore doesn't sympathize with them.

In Britain this is true (in most areas) of smokers, but not of drinkers; almost everyone over, ooh, 16 or so drinks to a greater or lesser extent. We don't have the same "alcohol is bad" atmosphere that the USA seems to (to me, sitting on the other side of the Atlantic). Therefore, this tax will doubtless be popular with those set to benefit (ie. Gordon Brown and the Police - not a band, fortunately) and make everyone else sigh and shake their heads.

I think the real cause of the binge-drinking problem (for, indeed, it is marketed as a problem) is quite a lot of people's aim in life seems to be "make it through the working week then get smashed at the weekend, ideally having a shag if the opportunity arises".

I did hear an idea on the radio earlier regarding the requirement to have an 'alcohol licence' to drink, in the same way that you need a licence to drive. Essentially, the more irresponsible you proved yourself to be with drink, the more your licence would cost. I quite liked the sound of that.

how about the tax apply only to those under 25?For both of these comments: I already get my alcohol illegally. It really wouldn't be a hastle to get around paying the tax, or really a major cost. I'm 20. I go to college. I have grad school friends who would buy for me instead of my friend who is 21. And with the price I pay for a 30 of PBR or Keystone or cheap vodka, you'd have to tax it about 100 percent to make it a decent deturant (a 30 of PBR runs $10. Handle of Bukov or Popov, $12. Compare this to a pint of Johnny walker Black, which is $13. A handle is 3.7 pints. this works out to $48 for a handle of Johnny Walker Black.)

1. Have the tax found Alcoholics Anonymous type projects, rehab projects and pay for stomach pumps for drunks. Thats one productive use of the Tax.

2. I like the idea of a drinking license. too bad it just promotes more bootlegged alcohol and slipping money to the bar tenders when you dont have a license.

3. Not much you can do here so why bother.

I fully support the bolded sentiment.

They can't raise taxes on booze! Just the other day I was buying a couple of pints for me and my best mate, except it turned out that I was a penny short. I had to scrounge copper from a total stranger. Us students can't afford to pay more on alcohol, we waste most of our student loan on beer as it is now.

I agree that something needs to be done about binge drinking though. It's a disgrace how some people behave sometimes. I'd rather not be stepping over pools of vomit in the city center.
:gundge:

Would increasing tax on alcohol, specifically alcopops, help to combat the problem of binge drinking?
Hasn't really stopped people from smoking.


People are doing real harm to themselves through binge drinking, not to mention the strain it puts on the already overstretched health system. While I personally don't believe that the above mentioned tax will do very much to reduce the problem, I would certainly support a system where people were required to pay for self-inflicted health issues like this. If it's your 'right' to screw around with your body like this, then I would say it's my 'right' to not to have to pay to clean you up.
But if you have to pay for the system in the first place, you really don't have the right to say that. Yours not to reason why. Yours but to give and die.

Would increasing tax on alcohol, specifically alcopops, help to combat the problem of binge drinking?

It would make binge drinking more expensive.

Big deal. So the real alcoholics would just spend more - stealing, if necessary, to do so.

While I personally don't believe that the above mentioned tax will do very much to reduce the problem, I would certainly support a system where people were required to pay for self-inflicted health issues like this. If it's your 'right' to screw around with your body like this, then I would say it's my 'right' to not to have to pay to clean you up.

Ooh, there's a right not to pay taxes? Where do I sign up?

AA is a religious organization who's record of successfully "rehabilitating" alcoholics is lower than cold turkey. We already have more than enough faith based initiatives that don't do a damn bit of good and only pay back the religious right in cash for their support.

Do you have stats to back up your claim? I have heard the exact opposite regarding AA and have seen some studies that show a very high success rate. AA is one of the few rehabilitation programs out there that actually works from what I've seen. So where are you getting your information?

Do you have stats to back up your claim? I have heard the exact opposite regarding AA and have seen some studies that show a very high success rate. AA is one of the few rehabilitation programs out there that actually works from what I've seen. So where are you getting your information?

Yeah I do. In print, not in internet links. I typed a shitload of the evidence against AA, though by no means all of it in a set of long posts several months ago. I'm not about to do that much typing again. Use the search function if you're interested.

how about the tax apply only to those under 25?
How would that work?

Would increasing tax on alcohol, specifically alcopops, help to combat the problem of binge drinking? The Health Secretary thinks so; and now, it seems, the Police do too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6091918.stm

No. Most people who 'binge drink' will be drinking lagers that are around 4-5% ABV. Taxing alcopops would do almost nothing. If they're going to tax some alcoholic drinks (which won't work anyway) then they should be aiming at these lagers.

Just so long as they leave proper ciders and real ales alone, I don't really care at all.

Do you have stats to back up your claim? I have heard the exact opposite regarding AA and have seen some studies that show a very high success rate. AA is one of the few rehabilitation programs out there that actually works from what I've seen. So where are you getting your information?

In DCD's defense:

Griffin v. Coughlin
Grandberg v. Ashland County
Warner v. Orange County Department of Probation

All found mandatory AA violates the establishment clause.

Studies:
Ditman et al. 1967
Brandsma et al. 1980
Walsh et al. 1991

all had increased uses of alcohol using AA methods vs control groups

you can tax our cars, our property, and many other things. but taxing alcohol is going too far.

as history has shown, people dont react well to taxation of drinks.

Do you have stats to back up your claim? I have heard the exact opposite regarding AA and have seen some studies that show a very high success rate. AA is one of the few rehabilitation programs out there that actually works from what I've seen. So where are you getting your information?

AA only works for those that want to be there. for those that want to quite. which doesnt happen to be many. if you are court ordered AA and do not want to be threre, chances it will not do a damn thing for you except make you want to go home and crack open a cold beer.

And the bar for 'binge drinking' is over 2 units for a woman and 3 for a man. A bit low.

Or, more realistically "some researchers have chosen to define binge drinking as consuming over half the government’s recommended number of units for a week in one session (thus, binge drinking would be defined as drinking, in one session, 10 units for men and 7 units for women)"

http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/Hubhotpbingedrinking

Your figures would classify anything over one pint of beer for a woman and a pint and a half for a man as binge drinking.

Real smart. All it's going to do is make people spend proportionally more of their income on booze while not providing any real solution to alcoholism.

no this doesnt actually work as well as you may think. we have higher alcohol tax rates, but we also drink alot more than in england. because the ever so increasing prices of booze, irish people now drink spirits really fast before going into clubs, so we dont have pay so much.

Your figures would classify anything over one pint of beer for a woman and a pint and a half for a man as binge drinking.
Correct, which is why it's a ridiculous system.

Also - 10 units is easy to down, 7 units even easier.

10 units is seven large pub / small home measures of alcohol. Not a lot.

7 units is about 3 pints.

This won't make people drink less, it will just make them drink cheaply.
Hence, "A vote for higher alcohol taxes is a vote for higher consumption of Dubra", and that is something that no one wants to happen.

no this doesnt actually work as well as you may think. we have higher alcohol tax rates, but we also drink alot more than in england. because the ever so increasing prices of booze, irish people now drink spirits really fast before going into clubs, so we dont have pay so much.

Pregaming? I thought that was a very common practice everywhere...drinks at a bar will always be more expensive than making the same thing at home

This won't make people drink less, it will just make them drink cheaply.
Hence, "A vote for higher alcohol taxes is a vote for higher consumption of Dubra", and that is something that no one wants to happen.

Or even worse a vote for carling

There's pretty hefty alcohol tax in Finland. Something like 40-50% of the price of a bottle of whiskey is tax. The tax supposedly makes a) drinking less attractive and b) the money the state gets goes to the rehab/healthcare costs caused by booze... the b) part may work, a) sure doesn't.
*chases a beer down with a healthy shot of Lagavulin*