NationStates Jolt Archive


Obama on energy

PsychoticDan
27-10-2006, 20:34
Having posted all the shit I have about Obama while admitting I didn't know enough about him I decided to take some time and try to see what it is that everyone likes so much. Well, here's a start. This is a speech he gave on energy. I like it. I don't like the ethanol angle so much, but I do like the fact that he seems to grasp the level of commitment we need as a nation to tackle the challenges ahead. Anyhoo, here it is.

Remarks of Senator Barack Obama
Governor's Ethanol Coalition
Washington, DC
Feb. 28, 2006

In this year's State of the Union address, President Bush told us that it was time to get serious about America's addiction to foreign oil. The next day, we found out that his idea didn't sit too well with the Saudi Royal Family. A few hours later, Energy Secretary Bodman backtracked and assured the world that even though the President said he planned to reduce the amount of oil we import from the Middle East, he actually didn't mean that literally.

If there's a single example out there that encapsulates the ability of unstable, undemocratic governments to wield undue influence over America's national security just because of our dependence on oil, this is it.

Now, I could stand up here and give you all plenty of reasons why it's a good idea for this country to move away from an oil-based economy. I could cite studies from scientists and experts and even our own State Department detailing the dangers of global warming - how it can destroy our coastal areas and generate more deadly storms. I could talk forever about the economic consequences of dependence - how it's decimating our auto industry and costing us jobs and emptying our wallets at the pump. And I could talk about the millions of new jobs and entire new industries we could create by transitioning to an alternative-fuel economy.

But all we really need to know about the danger of our oil addiction comes directly from the mouths of our enemies:

"[Oil] is the umbilical cord and lifeline of the crusader community." These are the words of Al Qaeda.

"Focus your operations on oil, especially in Iraq and the Gulf area, since this will cause them to die off [on their own]." These are the words Osama bin Laden.

More than anything else, these comments represent a realization of American weakness shared by the rest of the world. It's a realization that for all of our military might and economic dominance, the Achilles heel of the most powerful country on Earth is the oil we cannot live without.

Oil single-handedly fuels 96% of our transportation needs, and it's also critical to the manufacture of millions of goods and products in this country. As we saw during Hurricane Katrina, this kind of dependency means that the loss of even a small amount of oil and refining capacity for just a few days can cause economic panic and soaring prices. A serious embargo or permanent loss could cause untold disaster.

It would be nice if we could produce our way out of this problem, but it's just not possible. We only have 3% of the world's oil reserves. We could start drilling in ANWR today, and at its peak, which would be more than a decade from now, it would give us enough oil to take care of our transportation needs for about a month.

As a result, every single hour we spend $18 million on foreign oil. It doesn't matter if these countries are budding democracies, despotic regimes, or havens for the madrassas that plant the seeds of terror in young minds - they get our money because we need their oil.

One need only glance at headlines around the world to understand how dangerous this addictive arrangement truly is.

In Iran, Islamic fundamentalists are forging ahead with their nuclear program, knowing full well that the world's response to their actions will be influenced by our need for their oil. In fact, reports of a $100 billion oil deal between Iran and China were soon followed by China's refusal to press for sanctions against Iran over its nuclear intentions.

In Nigeria, militant rebels have been attacking the country's oil pipelines in recent weeks, sending prices soaring and calling into question the political stability of a country that represents America's fifth-largest source of oil imports.

In Saudi Arabia, Al Qaeda has been attempting attacks on that country's poorly defended oil refineries for years. On Friday, they almost succeeded as a truck full of explosives was detonated by the shots of security guards just before it entered the refinery. Even this minor damage caused oil prices to jump $2 in a single day. But a former CIA agent tells us that if terrorists ever succeeded in destroying an entire oil complex, it could take enough oil off the market to cause economic catastrophe in the United States.

Our enemies are fully aware that they can use oil as a weapon against America. And if we don't take this threat as seriously as the bombs they build or the guns they buy, we will be fighting the War on Terror with one hand tied behind our back.

Now, the good news about the President's decision to finally focus on energy independence after five years is that it helps build bipartisan consensus that our reliance on foreign oil is a problem and shows that he understands the potential of renewable fuels to make a difference.

The bad news is that the President's energy policy treats our dependence on oil as more of a nuisance than a serious threat.

Just one day after he told us in the State of the Union that renewable fuels were the key to an energy independent future, we learned that the President's budget cuts would force layoffs at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory. Last week, this made for a rather awkward situation when the President wanted to use the lab for a photo-op - so awkward that the White House actually re-hired the laid-off researchers just to avoid the embarrassment.

This is only one example, but it tells the story of a larger weakness in the President's energy policy: it's simply not commensurate to the challenge.

There's a reason that some have compared the quest for energy independence to the Manhattan Project or the Apollo moon landing. Like those historic efforts, moving away from an oil economy is a major challenge that will require a sustained national commitment.

During World War II, we had an entire country working around the clock to produce enough planes and tanks to beat the Axis powers. In the middle of the Cold War, we built a national highway system so we had a quick way to transport military equipment across the country. When we wanted to beat the Russians into space, we poured millions into a national education initiative that graduated thousands of new scientists and engineers.

If we hope to strengthen our security and control our own foreign policy, we can offer no less of a commitment to energy independence.

But so far, President Bush seems like he is offering less - much less.

His funding for renewable fuels is at the same level it was the day he took office.

He refuses to call for even a modest increase in fuel-efficiency standards for cars and trucks.

His latest budget funds less then half of the energy bill he himself signed into law - leaving hundreds of millions of dollars in under-funded energy proposals.

And while he cannot seem to find the funding for any of these energy proposals, he has no problem allowing the oil companies to stiff taxpayers $7 billion in royalties that they owe us for drilling on public lands. These are the same oil companies that are currently enjoying the highest profits on record.

Again, this is just not a serious commitment to energy independence. The solutions are too timid - the reforms too small. America's dependence on oil is a major threat to our national security, and the American people deserve a bold commitment that has the full force of their government behind it.

This isn't to lay the blame for our energy problems entirely at the feet of our President. This is an issue that politicians from both parties clamor about when gas prices are the headline of the month, only to fall back into a trance of inaction once things calm down. And so we all need to get serious here. Automakers need to get serious about shifting their technology to greater fuel-efficiency, consumers need to get serious about buying hybrid cars, and Washington needs to get serious about working together to find a real solution to our energy crisis.

Such a solution is not only possible, it's already being implemented in other places around the world. Countries like Japan are creating jobs and slowing oil consumption by churning out and buying millions of fuel-efficient cars. Brazil, a nation that once relied on foreign countries to import 80% of its crude oil, will now be entirely self-sufficient in a few years thanks to its investment in biofuels.

So why can't we do this? Why can't we make energy security one of the great American projects of the 21st century?

The answer is, we can. The President's energy proposal would reduce our oil imports by 4.5 million barrels per day by 2025. Not only can we do better than that, we must do better than that if we hope to make a real dent in our oil dependency. With technology we have on the shelves right now and fuels we can grow right here in America, by 2025 we can reduce our oil imports by over 7.5. million barrels per day - an amount greater than all the oil we are expected to import from the entire Middle East.

We can do this by focusing on two things: the cars we drive and the fuels we use.

First, the cars. For years, we've hesitated to raise fuel economy standards as a nation in part because of a very legitimate concern - the impact it would have on Detroit. The auto industry is right when they argue that transitioning to more hybrid and fuel-efficient cars would require massive investment at a time when they're struggling under the weight of rising health care costs, sagging profits, and stiff competition.

But it's precisely because of that competition that they don't have a choice. China now has a higher fuel economy standard than we do, and Japan's Toyota is doubling production of the popular Prius to sell 100,000 in the U.S. this year.

There is now no doubt that fuel-efficient cars represent the future of the auto industry. If American car companies hope to be a part of that future - if they hope to survive - they must start building more of these cars.

But that's not to say we should leave the industry to face these costs on its own. Yes, we should raise fuel economy standards by 3% a year over the next fifteen years, starting in 2008. With the technology they already have, this should be an achievable goal for automakers. But we can help them get there.

Right now, one of the biggest costs facing auto manufacturers isn't the cars they make, it's the health care they provide. Health care costs make up $1,500 of the price of every GM car that's made - more than the cost of steel. Retiree health care alone cost the Big 3 automakers nearly $6.7 billion just last year.

So here's the deal we can make with the auto companies. It's a piece of legislation I introduced called "Health Care for Hybrids," and it would allow the federal government to pick up part of the tab for the auto companies' retiree health care costs. In exchange, the auto companies would then use some of that savings to build and invest in more fuel-efficient cars. It's a win-win proposal for the industry - their retirees will be taken care of, they'll save money on health care, and they'll be free to invest in the kind of fuel-efficient cars that are the key to their competitive future.

Now, building cars that use less oil is only one side of the equation. The other involves replacing the oil we use with home-grown biofuels. The Governors in this room have long known about this potential, and all of you have been leading the way on ethanol in your own states.

This coalition also knows that corn-based ethanol is only the beginning. If we truly want to harness the power of these fuels and the promise of this market, we can and must generate more cellulosic ethanol from agricultural products like corn stocks, switch grass and other crops our farmers grow.

Already, there are hundreds of fueling stations that use a blend of ethanol and gasoline known as E85, and there are millions of cars on the road with the flexible-fuel tanks necessary to use this fuel - including my own.

But the challenge we face with these biofuels is getting them out of the labs, out of the farms, and onto the wider commercial market. Every scientific study in the world could sing the praises of biofuels, but you might still be hard-pressed to find an investor willing to take the risk on a cellulosic ethanol plant or a brand-name petroleum company willing to build an E85 fueling station.

The federal government can help in two ways here. First, we can reduce the risk of investing. We already do this in a number of ways by funding projects critical to our national security. Energy independence should be no different. By developing an Energy Technology Program at the Defense Department, we can provide loan guarantees and venture capital to those with the best plans to develop and sell biofuels on a commercial market. The Defense Department will also hold a competition where private corporations get funding to see who can build the best new alternative-fuel plant. The Department can then use these new technologies to improve the energy security of our own military.

Once we take the risk out of investing, the second thing the government can do is to let the private sector know that there will always be a market for renewable fuels. We can do this in a few ways.

First, we should ramp up the renewable fuel standard and create an alternative diesel standard in this country so that by 2025, 65 billion gallons of alternative fuels per year will be blended into the petroleum supply.

Second, Washington should lead the way on energy independency by making sure that every single automobile the government purchases is a flexible-fuel vehicle - starting today. When it becomes possible in the coming years, we should make sure that every government car is a plug-in hybrid as well.

Third, I'm supporting legislation that would make sure every single new car in America is a flexible-fuel vehicle within a decade. Currently it costs manufacturers just $100 to add these tanks to each car. But we can do them one better. If they install flexible-fuel tanks in their cars before the decade's up, the government should provide them a $100 tax credit to do it - so there's no excuse for delay.

Fourth, there are already millions of people driving flexible-fuel vehicles who don't know it. The auto companies shouldn't get CAF'E credit for making these cars if they don't let buyers know about them, so I'd like to ask the industry to follow GM's lead and put a yellow gas cap on all flexible fuel vehicles starting today. Also, they should send a letter to those people who already have flexible-fuel vehicles so they can start filling up their tank at the closest E85 station.

Finally, since there are only around 500 fueling stations that pump E85 in the country, we recently passed legislation that would provide tax credits of up to $30,000 for those who want to install E85 pumps at their station. But we should do even more - we should make sure that in the coming years, E85 stations are as easy to find as your gas station is now.

Make no mistake - none of these reforms will come easy, and they won't happen overnight. But we can't continue to settle for piecemeal, bite-sized solutions to our energy crisis. We need a national commitment to energy security, and to emphasize that commitment, we should install a Director of Energy Security to oversee all of our efforts. Like the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the National Intelligence Director, this person would be an advisor to the National Security Council and have the full authority to coordinate America's energy policy across all levels of government. He or she would approve all major budget decisions and provide a full report to Congress and the country every year detailing the progress we're making toward our 2025 goal.

In the days and months after September 11th, Americans were waiting to be called to something bigger than themselves. Just like their parents and grandparents of the Greatest Generation, they were willing to serve and defend their country - not only on the fields of war, but on the homefront too.

This is our chance to step up and serve. The war against international terrorism has pitted us against a new kind of enemy that wages terror in new and unconventional ways. At home, fighting that enemy won't require us to build the massive war machine that Franklin Roosevelt called for so many years ago, but it will require us to harness our own renewable forms of energy so that oil can never be used as a weapon against America. From farmers and scientists to entrepreneurs and governors, everyone has a role to play in this effort. In fact, this afternoon I'm sitting down with business and military leaders to discuss this very topic.

Now is the time for serious leadership to get us started down the path of energy independence. Now is the time for this call to arms. I hope some of the ideas I've laid out today can serve as a basis for this call, but I also hope that members of both parties and all levels of government can come together in the near future to launch this serious quest for energy independence. Thank you.

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/2/28/225014/029
Vetalia
27-10-2006, 20:45
This guy better run for president, because that's the only way we can get things done. If only we could have a Congress and President both committed to improving and securing our energy infrastructure...although, maybe, this is the one chance we'll have to get this project underway.

As it's been said before, God sets limits to test mankind...and the upcoming energy crisis is going to be the first of many limits to come. I can only hope people like Obama turn their plans in to reality; we're not talking $3 or $4 gallon gas, we're talking things like $7 gas or even pumps running dry.

This is the biggest challenge America has faced since WWII, and its biggest economic challenge since the Depression...the only difference is that we have to not only build the economic infrastructure, but also the energy infrastructure to support it. There's not Texas oilfields to save us from the very real challenges ahead.
Daemonocracy
27-10-2006, 20:54
This guy sure loves to talk. He says alot, without saying anything. Yes we need to fund research for alternative energy, yes there should be higher fuel efficiency standards, yes America is too dependant on foreign oil, yes Al-qaeda seeks to target our dependance on oil and yes there is more we can all do as a nation...we know this. What a bunch of fluff.

how about some real solutions?

Invest more in Coal Technology, specifically the relatively new Clean Coal technology the environmentalist lobby which has Barak's ear refuses to accept.

Build more Nuclear Power Plants. Nuclear Energy, with todays technology, will greatly assist us in any energy crisis. A Nuclear facility has not been built since 1979, this is outrageous.

Build more Oil Refineries to keep the prices down! Again, the environmental lobby which Barak is subservient to will not allow this. The more refineries we have, the more gas is created and the more available energy we have for the public.

Drill in Alaska and offshore. Short term relief, but relief nonetheless. Again, this isn't the 1970s, our exploration technology is much more advanced now. We should not be letting Mexican, Venezuelan and Chinese companies drill in the Gulf of Mexico while we twiddle out thumbs.

And yes, aggressive research in clean, alternative energy is an absolute must. Private and Public investment is a requirement.

Barak Obama always says what sounds so nice to our ears, but he really is not saying or proposing anything new or original.
Vetalia
27-10-2006, 21:05
This guy sure loves to talk. He says alot, without saying anything. Yes we need to fund research for alternative energy, yes there should be higher fuel efficiency standards, yes America is too dependant on foreign oil, yes Al-qaeda seeks to target our dependance on oil and yes there is more we can all do as a nation...we know this. What a bunch of fluff.

how about some real solutions?

Invest more in Coal Technology, specifically the relatively new Clean Coal technology the environmentalist lobby which has Barak's ear refuses to accept.

Build more Nuclear Power Plants. Nuclear Energy, with todays technology, will greatly assist us in any energy crisis. A Nuclear facility has not been built since 1979, this is outrageous.

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Nuclear and coal are the de facto energy sources for the post-peak; the only downside is that coal reserves are limited and nuclear takes time to site and build. However, that doesn't mean they will not be vital...it just makes the short term more difficult.

Build more Oil Refineries to keep the prices down! Again, the environmental lobby which Barak is subservient to will not allow this. The more refineries we have, the more gas is created and the more available energy we have for the public.

The oil industry has added the equivalent of a new refinery every year through expansions; it's not really a question of capacity because our refineries are able to meet almost our entire demand, and the little bit that they can't meet can be imported from Europe or drawn from stockpiles (which are at near-record highs, as a matter of fact).

The problem is the price of crude; if oil climbs to, say, $100, gas will still cost at least $3.50-$4 gallon because of the actual cost of the crude. It wouldn't matter if we had 30 or 40 million bpd of capacity, because if the crude is expensive the gas will be expensive. And oil is likely to get very, very expensive in the next few decades.

Drill in Alaska and offshore. Short term relief, but relief nonetheless. Again, this isn't the 1970s, our exploration technology is much more advanced now. We should not be letting Mexican, Venezuelan and Chinese companies drill in the Gulf of Mexico while we twiddle out thumbs.

A better idea would be to save those resources for the real crisis, and then open them as an emergency source to fuel alternative energy and other projects. Those reserves can't produce much now, but 1 or 2 million bpd of high-quality, domestic crude will be vital once the peak hits. That's enough additional oil. when combined with the rest of our domestic production, to meet our non-transportation needs.
PsychoticDan
27-10-2006, 21:15
This guy sure loves to talk. He says alot, without saying anything. Yes we need to fund research for alternative energy, yes there should be higher fuel efficiency standards, yes America is too dependant on foreign oil, yes Al-qaeda seeks to target our dependance on oil and yes there is more we can all do as a nation...we know this. What a bunch of fluff.no, you have him confused with George Bush. "Freedom is on the march!" "Democracy is winning!" "The Google on the internets is good for maps!"

how about some real solutions?

Invest more in Coal Technology, specifically the relatively new Clean Coal technology the environmentalist lobby which has Barak's ear refuses to accept.

Build more Nuclear Power Plants. Nuclear Energy, with todays technology, will greatly assist us in any energy crisis. A Nuclear facility has not been built since 1979, this is outrageous.I agree. We will need more electricity. We're talking about liquid fuels here, though.

Build more Oil Refineries to keep the prices down! Again, the environmental lobby which Barak is subservient to will not allow this. The more refineries we have, the more gas is created and the more available energy we have for the public. You need oil in order to refine it. The last thing we want to do if we are going to switch to other sources of fuel is increase our dependence on teh fuel we are trying to switch away from.

Drill in Alaska and offshore. Short term relief, but relief nonetheless. Again, this isn't the 1970s, our exploration technology is much more advanced now. We should not be letting Mexican, Venezuelan and Chinese companies drill in the Gulf of Mexico while we twiddle out thumbs.This is just wrong on many levels.

1. Venezula and China are not drilling in the Gulf.
2. Mexico is allowed to drill in it's gulf waters all it wants.
3. The Gulf is the most active frontier in the American oi industry and we are drilling the Hell out of it.
4. We drilled the Hell out of Alaska and it is now in decline at about 5%/year.
5. ANWR will not provide short term relief because even if the go ahead were given today it would be a decade before we starting seeing any real oil out of ANWR. It only contains about a months worth of consumption and that production would be spread out over 30 years.

And yes, aggressive research in clean, alternative energy is an absolute must. Private and Public investment is a requirement.

Barak Obama always says what sounds so nice to our ears, but he really is not saying or proposing anything new or original.

Sounds like you only read the first half of the post. He proposed a whole list of tax incentives and government programs that go way beyond anything the Bush admin has done. It didn't include tax breaks for oil companies, though.
Daemonocracy
27-10-2006, 22:08
Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Nuclear and coal are the de facto energy sources for the post-peak; the only downside is that coal reserves are limited and nuclear takes time to site and build. However, that doesn't mean they will not be vital...it just makes the short term more difficult.

The short term is the trickiest. I fear we may just have to soldier through the next few years and hope a serious catastrophe does not hit us. Iraq oil fields will need to be militarily secured though.



The oil industry has added the equivalent of a new refinery every year through expansions; it's not really a question of capacity because our refineries are able to meet almost our entire demand, and the little bit that they can't meet can be imported from Europe or drawn from stockpiles (which are at near-record highs, as a matter of fact).

yes I remember oil being imported from Europe after Katrina, but new and up to date refineries should still be built at an accelerated pace. As J.R. said, "America is addicted to oil." your point is well taken though.

The problem is the price of crude; if oil climbs to, say, $100, gas will still cost at least $3.50-$4 gallon because of the actual cost of the crude. It wouldn't matter if we had 30 or 40 million bpd of capacity, because if the crude is expensive the gas will be expensive. And oil is likely to get very, very expensive in the next few decades.

$100 oil... *shudder*

does Huffy still make good bikes? I used to own one...

A better idea would be to save those resources for the real crisis, and then open them as an emergency source to fuel alternative energy and other projects. Those reserves can't produce much now, but 1 or 2 million bpd of high-quality, domestic crude will be vital once the peak hits. That's enough additional oil. when combined with the rest of our domestic production, to meet our non-transportation needs.

This is a good idea.

We need to set up our rigs ahead of time in preparation of a possible crisis. In ANWR and off shore, particularily in the Gulf where Venezuelan and Chinese companies are aggressively exploring. Adding the oil we pull from these sites to the National Reserve would be smart. ANWR however is believed to contain enough oil to give us almost immediate short term relief for 15-30 years. This could all be bunk, but I say it is worth a try.

Also, the recently passed energy bill does deal with alot of what Obama mentioned, as well as some of what we have discussed. Again though, the short term is not specifically addressed. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/08/AR2005080800124.html)
Daemonocracy
27-10-2006, 22:34
no, you have him confused with George Bush. "Freedom is on the march!" "Democracy is winning!" "The Google on the internets is good for maps!"

I'm not trying to make this into a Bush V Obama thread.


You need oil in order to refine it. The last thing we want to do if we are going to switch to other sources of fuel is increase our dependence on teh fuel we are trying to switch away from.

alternative energy is a long term solution. Oil (and coal) is here already. We need to increase domestic drilling while we phase in alternative energy such as Hydrogen Fuel Cells or even Ethanol. (I personally don't even see ethanol as a viable energy source. We consume too much energy and liquid fuel and do not grow enough corn. Ethanol will probably be most popular as fuel for tractors and in the agricultural industry.)

This is just wrong on many levels.

1. Venezula and China are not drilling in the Gulf.
2. Mexico is allowed to drill in it's gulf waters all it wants.
3. The Gulf is the most active frontier in the American oi industry and we are drilling the Hell out of it.
4. We drilled the Hell out of Alaska and it is now in decline at about 5%/year.
5. ANWR will not provide short term relief because even if the go ahead were given today it would be a decade before we starting seeing any real oil out of ANWR. It only contains about a months worth of consumption and that production would be spread out over 30 years.

http://www.washtimes.com/business/20060726-120144-4481r.htm

Cuba, with the aid of China, are drilling off the shore of Florida, specifically in the Eastern Gulf. Yes Mexico has a right to drill in the Gulf, I was not saying they do not, but we should be at least as aggressive as they are. And American companies are limited in how close to the shore and where exactly they can drill.

ANWR would produce at least a million barrels a day. That is around the amount we import from Iraq every day. The percentage of the U.S. oil needs that would be met by ANWR is nearly 5 percent. I read in Forbes magazine that we consume about 20 million barrels of oil a day. We import 12 million of those barrels. That is a 60 percent daily dependency on imported oil. ANWR production would make up for 8 to 10 percent of our current imports. We need every last bit we can get to help reduce foreign independence while we research and develop alternative fuels.

I never heard anything about Alaska being in decline by about 5% every year. As a matter of fact, I do not remember Alaska getting "the hell drilled out of" it. What I do know is that Alaskan residents and legislators want to be able to drill in ANWR and see the benefits. They also are very protective of their environment as well and do not wish to see it come to any harm.




Sounds like you only read the first half of the post. He proposed a whole list of tax incentives and government programs that go way beyond anything the Bush admin has done. It didn't include tax breaks for oil companies, though.

I read the whole post, but I really did not see anything praticularily new or original. I find his proposals on reducing investment risks interesting but everything else is pretty standard stuff. And the recently passed energy bill in August was a recent step in the right direction.

Domestic drilling and exploration should be an option.
Evil Cantadia
28-10-2006, 03:54
It's a pretty good speech but it says alot that he had to appeal primarily to security concerns as opposed to economic and environmental concerns. I just worry that focusing too much on the security aspect of this issue may cause America to make the wrong decisions about the appropriate mix in its energy portfolio for the future.
Vetalia
28-10-2006, 03:57
It's a pretty good speech but it says alot that he had to appeal primarily to security concerns as opposed to economic and environmental concerns.

Unfortunately, that's the only issue that can really bring everyone on the same side of the issue. Of course, given the scale of the challenge we're going to face, any kind of progress on energy is welcome no matter what politics we have to use to attain it.

If we can get those SUV drivers to run on biofuels instead of oil, that would be welcome progress...
Evil Cantadia
28-10-2006, 04:17
Invest more in Coal Technology, specifically the relatively new Clean Coal technology the environmentalist lobby which has Barak's ear refuses to accept.

There is actually no such thing as clean coal. Coal is dirty, although there are some newer technologies that enable us to mitigate some of its environmental effects. But most of these technologies (such as carbon capture) are still in their infancy, at least in relation to coal.


Build more Nuclear Power Plants. Nuclear Energy, with todays technology, will greatly assist us in any energy crisis. A Nuclear facility has not been built since 1979, this is outrageous.

Yet safety and storage remain major problems. If the 3rd Generation Nuclear Reactors are so safe, then how come the nuclear industry still requires a piece of legislation like the nuclear liability act that limits their liability in the event of a meltdown, and that is effectively the same as insuring them on the public dime for free. Without that legislation, nuclear power would cost up to 4 times what is currently does, and would be totally uneconomical.


Build more Oil Refineries to keep the prices down! Again, the environmental lobby which Barak is subservient to will not allow this. The more refineries we have, the more gas is created and the more available energy we have for the public.

Refineries can only refine as much oil as we get out of the ground. And that is the real limit we are running up against right now. And the quicker we use it, the less we have left for the long term.


Drill in Alaska and offshore. Short term relief, but relief nonetheless.

One has to serously question whether the ecological consequences of drilling in ANWAR are worth the benefit of one month's worth of supply that will only come on line 10 years down the road.



Barak Obama always says what sounds so nice to our ears, but he really is not saying or proposing anything new or original.
He may not be proposing anything original, but even his mere willingness to accept that there is a problem is a radical departure from the current policy direction.
Evil Cantadia
28-10-2006, 04:20
Unfortunately, that's the only issue that can really bring everyone on the same side of the issue. Of course, given the scale of the challenge we're going to face, any kind of progress on energy is welcome no matter what politics we have to use to attain it.

If we can get those SUV drivers to run on biofuels instead of oil, that would be welcome progress...

Agreed. Different appeals can be used to get everyone on the same page. I just hope that the policy-makers have a broader focus on all of the issues so that we make the right decisions regarding our energy mix.
Evil Cantadia
28-10-2006, 04:25
(I personally don't even see ethanol as a viable energy source. We consume too much energy and liquid fuel and do not grow enough corn. Ethanol will probably be most popular as fuel for tractors and in the agricultural industry.)

The last couple of studies I read about (both in SciAm) suggested that ethanol from corn will actually produce a net energy gain (unlike previous studies which said it didn't) but that it does not reduce CO2 emissions by much, and that ethanol from other sources and biodiesel from soybeans or prairie grass, are all much better. But as you say, we still don't grow enough of any of these things to even begin to meet our liquid fuel needs. Biofuels will probably always be a relatively small part of the energy mix, and it looks like ethanol from corn is still pretty much a sop to the corn lobby.
Vetalia
28-10-2006, 04:27
Agreed. Different appeals can be used to get everyone on the same page. I just hope that the policy-makers have a broader focus on all of the issues so that we make the right decisions regarding our energy mix.

I really think they will, however it has to be done. After all, renewable energy, energy efficiency and conservation under the guise of "energy independence" are just as good as achieving them for environmental ends.

Either way, we need to start taking steps in the right direction.
Kinda Sensible people
28-10-2006, 04:29
Invest more in Coal Technology, specifically the relatively new Clean Coal technology the environmentalist lobby which has Barak's ear refuses to accept.

Flat out. Even "clean" coal is not clean enough (particularly from particulates). Even if you don't care about it's environmental effects, you should be aware that in areas that coal usage is higher, asthma rates soar. As a long term asthma patient, I can tell you that even thinking of placing that sort of curse upon one more person is terrible.

[Build more Nuclear Power Plants. Nuclear Energy, with todays technology, will greatly assist us in any energy crisis. A Nuclear facility has not been built since 1979, this is outrageous.

Yes. Scientists in Japan have recently come up with a way to remove useable Plutonium and Uranium from nuclear waste in one step (removing the security worry that seperately attained Plutonium represented). We need to harness this power to our advantage and use it to phase out coal and oil power.

Build more Oil Refineries to keep the prices down! Again, the environmental lobby which Barak is subservient to will not allow this. The more refineries we have, the more gas is created and the more available energy we have for the public.

Unhelpful. We don't get enough oil for that to be necessary.

Drill in Alaska and offshore. Short term relief, but relief nonetheless. Again, this isn't the 1970s, our exploration technology is much more advanced now. We should not be letting Mexican, Venezuelan and Chinese companies drill in the Gulf of Mexico while we twiddle out thumbs.

ANWR would make a tiny drop in oil prices. We don't need to sustain our oil addiction further (we can quit any time!) by drilling there. Let it remain there until a time when we have no choice but to use it. We don't need it now, and it has more utility sitting in the ground than it does out of the ground.

Barak Obama always says what sounds so nice to our ears, but he really is not saying or proposing anything new or original.

No, but he'll really do it, unlike Bush and his rubber stamp congress.
Evil Cantadia
28-10-2006, 04:36
ANWR would make a tiny drop in oil prices. We don't need to sustain our oil addiction further (we can quit any time!) by drilling there. Let it remain there until a time when we have no choice but to use it. We don't need it now, and it has more utility sitting in the ground than it does out of the ground.


I agree. But unfortunately, too many economists argue just the opposite. I attended some hearings on offshore drilling where a free-market economist argued that we had better get it out of the ground "while it is still worth something". He made the analogy to how the price of copper dropped when they found substitutes for copper wiring. Most of us here know that is comparing apples and oranges: we are always going to need energy, and oil will remain competitive with the substitutes for quite some time. But many of the politicians there found his argument compelling.