NationStates Jolt Archive

This probably isn't of any interest to anyone but me, but I've always had a slight fascination with the death of Lionel Crabb, a British naval officer who mysteriously vanished in 1956.

To give you a very brief summary of his story: Khrushchev had come to Britain aboard the Soviet Warship, the Ordzhonikidze, for peace talks with the British Prime Minister. This was a new ship that the Armed Forces were desperate for infomation on, and, as intellegence out of Soviet Russia was sparse and inaccurate, the presence of the ship in a British harbour was seen by many as too good an opportunity to pass up.

Crabb was dispatched on a diving mission to measure the size of the ships propeller, in order to estimate the top speed and power of the vessel. After leaving his (to this day) unidentified support officer for a second dive, Crabb never returned to the surface. A headless corpse was discovered in the waters some weeks later, to be identified as Crabb.

While it is not entirely clear what happened, the most likely scenario is that the Russians either knew a diver was coming, or saw Crabb in the waters, and, essentially, turned the propeller on when he was down there. The incident caused a diplomatic storm, and forced the Government to deny all knowledge of the operation in the House of Commons.

Newly released documents (here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6089952.stm) now show that whoever did send Crabb on this fatal mission, it was not the Royal Navy. What seems increasingly likely is that he was sent on a poorly organised and possibly completely unofficial/unauthorised mission from one of the Security Services. It's a chilling tale of what can happen when such secretive organisations are not kept firmly in check, and try to operate outside of their remit.

So, the obligatory question for those of you who won't read any of the above and will just skip to the end to see if there is anything interesting: are there any fascinating spy stories from your own nations history; examples of Cold War bravery, or total incompetence? Should the Intellegence Services be given a greater degree of freedom in what they do, or should they be more limited?

More limited.

More limited.

How so? If they are going to operate properly, they need to be able to act in many cases outside of the law. Accurate intellegence is essential for the safety of any nation; how do you limit their powers without limiting their accuracy?

I know that Ireland spied on England a bit during our various wars and rebellions. But to my knowledge we don't have any intelligence agency now. I think we use MI6.

How so? If they are going to operate properly, they need to be able to act in many cases outside of the law. Accurate intellegence is essential for the safety of any nation; how do you limit their powers without limiting their accuracy?
By making sure that they are very, very sure and checking what information they already have before going "OK, do whatever you like".

So, the obligatory question for those of you who won't read any of the above and will just skip to the end to see if there is anything interesting: are there any fascinating spy stories from your own nations history; examples of Cold War bravery, or total incompetence? Should the Intellegence Services be given a greater degree of freedom in what they do, or should they be more limited?There's a story that shows you how good the Nazis were at intelligence gathering:
Afraid that Switzerland might join in the war on the Allies side, the NS Regime sent spies into the country to be ready to sabotage the air force. They were all fitted out with brand new flight jackets and freshly printed swiss francs. They were sent to Switzerland on the same train, but seated in pairs so as not to arouse suspicion.
The conductor went through the train and came up onto the first pair. They didn't have a ticket, but offered to pay for one with brand new swiss franc bills. Then the conductor came to the second pair. Same jackets, same story, same money, same high German. After the third pair, I think he informed the gendarmerie and the spies were arrested.

I have absolutely no involvement with the secret intelligence service. I think the very idea of Mi6 is apaulling and I certainly don't have assignments to check how radical NSG is becoming!!

*runs away* *shoots philosophy in the back of the head with a silenced gun*

I know that Ireland spied on England a bit during our various wars and rebellions. But to my knowledge we don't have any intelligence agency now. I think we use MI6.

'The Department of Justice has responsibility for the internal security of the State. It has responsibility for the courts, the prison service and An Garda Síochána (police force).The Department of the Marine is responsible for policy issues in relation to the fishing and marine related industries, shipping, marine research and technology, aquaculture, marine safety and general marine conservation policy.'

http://www.ireland-information.com/reference/civilser.html

There's a story that shows you how good the Nazis were at intelligence gathering:
Afraid that Switzerland might join in the war on the Allies side, the NS Regime sent spies into the country to be ready to sabotage the air force. They were all fitted out with brand new flight jackets and freshly printed swiss francs. They were sent to Switzerland on the same train, but seated in pairs so as not to arouse suspicion.
The conductor went through the train and came up onto the first pair. They didn't have a ticket, but offered to pay for one with brand new swiss franc bills. Then the conductor came to the second pair. Same jackets, same story, same money, same high German. After the third pair, I think he informed the gendarmerie and the spies were arrested.

Wow, what great undercover work! :p

I heard one story that the British Secret Service, during World War 2, took one of Hitler's nicknames a bit too literally ("Carpet Muncher", I think - no, because he got angry, not that! ;) ), and actually smuggled a poisoned carpet into his office.

I can't find any evidence that this is actually true though, sadly.

I have absolutely no involvement with the secret intelligence service. I think the very idea of Mi6 is apaulling and I certainly don't have assignments to check how radical NSG is becoming!!

*runs away* *shoots philosophy in the back of the head with a silenced gun*

Ow!

*Rubs head*

they say that Flemming based James Bond on Crabb.....

they say that Flemming based James Bond on Crabb.....

The series probably wouldn't have lasted as long if he'd based it completely accurately on him, though. :p

The series probably wouldn't have lasted as long if he'd based it completely accurately on him, though. :p

true LOL

He did however make Bond a Scotsman....in Thunderball I think...

The series probably wouldn't have lasted as long if he'd based it completely accurately on him, though. :pDon't the bad guys do something similar to one of Bond's sidekicks in View to a Kill?

Don't the bad guys do something similar to one of Bond's sidekicks in View to a Kill?

Felix Leiter?

There's a story that shows you how good the Nazis were at intelligence gathering: - royal fuck-up -

It's good to remember that Wilhelm Canaris was actively trying to fuck up everything the abwehr did, with the exception of smuggling jews out of germany, keeping spain from joining the axis and trying to kill Hitler. And even from those, abwehr did only one thing well; the jews were mostly caught by internal security braches (Gestapo), and Hitler was way too paranoid to be easy to kill, they tried like 15 times... At least they managed to keep franco out of the war.

Lionel Crabb deserves at least one bump.

Lionel Crabb deserves at least one bump.

And you were saying "eww" when the dog had only been dead a week.

And you were saying "eww" when the dog had only been dead a week.

Well, shagging a week old dead dog is nasty. Shagging the headless corpse of the inspiration to James Bond has a certain class about it.

Well, shagging a week old dead dog is nasty. Shagging the headless corpse of the inspiration to James Bond has a certain class about it.

Hmm... Should I put that in my sig or not? It's definitely worthy :D

Hmm... Should I put that in my sig or not? It's definitely worthy :D

Nah, you'd get it taken out by the Mods and would confuse the hell out of me everytime I flicked through threads and saw my name.

Nah, you'd get it taken out by the Mods and would confuse the hell out of me everytime I flicked through threads and saw my name.

Oh well, then. Best not to, I suppose.