NationStates Jolt Archive


something to think about

Green israel
26-10-2006, 18:30
I already know how all the israli-bashers will come from their holes and attack those articles without even read them.
Unfortunally there isn't translation for other article of this publisher about the refugees. those some of her main points:
in the 20th century more than 40 milions people forced to leave their houses in transfers, wars and populaces replacements. there aren't thousands of organizations for them and nobody call for "their right to return to their homes", simply because they aren't palastinians. there are many milions of people who forced to leave thier homes because of political changes and new borders.
the number of palastinians who deproted in 48 is between 600,000 to 800,000. similar to the number of jewish who deported from the arab states. the small just-born jewish state absorbed populace greater than her former populace. the arab populace which were much larger and richer never did the same."
in every other place in the world it is accepted fact that "right of return" will cause more conflict and never-ending bloodship. until it came to israel. band of international organizations do only one thing: world-wide propoganda which try to increase the problem of the palastinians refugees.
other organizations are more direct: they want forcing israel (and only israel) to accept the return of the refugees). some may support it from unknowladgement or honesty, but others because they don't want solution or peace. as one of arrafat advisor said: "the right of return is the winning card which mean the end of israel".
many milions in the world forced to leave their homes. nobody of them is refugee. this title kept only for the palastinians.
the double standart start but wasn't finished in the fact that there are 2 organizations for refugees:United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) for all the world and supposed to help the refugees start new lives and stop become refugees, and United Nations Relief and Works Agency(UNRWA) which deal only with palastinians because of UN decision and immortalization of their state. dozens of milions of people stopped being refugees because of UNHCR, even one palastinian didn't stopped to be refugee because of UNRAH. they just increase each year.
even the definition of refugees is different. for palastinians it is "anyone who their usual home was in palestina between june 46 and may 48", which included all the foriegn worker which come to the area in the start of 1946.
other refugees had to prove many conditions in order to get help.
one more crucial difference: when it happened in other places, only the man himself count as "refugees" and stop being refugee when he get citizenship of other state. however, the palastinians pass this titles to their families and their next generations, and he count as refugee even if he minister in jordan or very rich.
john mirashaimer (SP?) published harsh and almost anti-semitic article against israel and for "the right of return". the same person who become the hero of the radical left published at 93 in the new-york times article about the balkans in which he support transfer ("ethnically homogeneous states must be created." "Creating homogeneous states would require transferring populations and drawing new borders."
transfer supporter will love those statements but that isn't the purpose. we want equality in the global rules.
the determining that every state as the right to keep religious or ethnically homogeneous states, and that refugees who live already in place were they are belong to the religious or ethnically majority has no "right of return". it mean that although the west bank were part of the historycal jewish homeland it doesn't give the jewish right to be their, and the palastinians had no right to return to israel although this is their historycal homeland.
the opposition to any "right of return" came also from "the right to self determination". if you accept "the right of return" only for the palastinians you take "the right to self determination" from the jewish. only from the jewish.
israel already helped to solve the refugee problem when it absorbed the jewish refugees. now, it is the reponsibiliy of the arab and muslim world as the international comunnity to solve the problem of the plastinians.
when the world will stop his double-standart the palastinian sufferness will start to decrease. for them and for the peace, this day better come.
dozens of refugees were absorbed in places where their nation or religion are the majority. now it is time for the arab world to absorb the palastinians refugees.
now for the other articles which were written by ben-dror yemini:
http://orendo.googlepages.com/warcrimes
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/483/521.html
Ginnoria
26-10-2006, 18:32
Loses a little bit in the translation, unfortunately.
Green israel
26-10-2006, 18:34
Loses a little bit in the translation, unfortunately.
true but that the best, I can get.
Psychotic Mongooses
26-10-2006, 19:11
That hurts my eyes.
Soviestan
26-10-2006, 19:12
That hurts my eyes.

I cant see anymore:(
New Burmesia
26-10-2006, 19:22
Time to roll out:

http://users.telenet.be/elnutsio/pics/shit.jpg

If you really, really want to beat this topic to death some more there's already places to do it here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=504395).
Green israel
26-10-2006, 19:23
That hurts my eyes.

I cant see anymore:(

the size of the letters? I agree it is small, but it is in the definition of my web browser.
how do I make it bigger?
Allers
26-10-2006, 19:26
I already know how all the israli-bashers will come from their holes [/url]
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/483/521.html

i just was following the white rabit....
what the heck?
Green israel
26-10-2006, 19:29
Time to roll out:

http://users.telenet.be/elnutsio/pics/shit.jpg

If you really, really want to beat this topic to death some more there's already places to do it here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=504395).

I see that thread. most of the posters in that thread hardly care to read and reply based on the post.
anyway the articles I brought cover most of the issue, so I thought it could be base for reasonable debate. a bit naive, but lets hope.
Green israel
26-10-2006, 19:34
i just was following the white rabit....
what the heck?
from past experience I will assume you talked about the use of the word "jenocide".
this word is nothing but experession which don't help or harm the massage of the article.
anyway it is also well explained in the article why he use it like that.
New Burmesia
26-10-2006, 19:34
I see that thread. most of the posters in that thread hardly care to read and reply based on the post.
anyway the articles I brought cover most of the issue, so I thought it could be base for reasonable debate. a bit naive, but lets hope.

Nationstates General in a teacup.
Green israel
26-10-2006, 19:39
Nationstates General in a teacup.

I know. is there any way to avoid it?
Keruvalia
26-10-2006, 19:46
My Babelfish just committed suicide.
Psychotic Mongooses
26-10-2006, 20:06
the size of the letters? I agree it is small, but it is in the definition of my web browser.
how do I make it bigger?

No. The language. It hurts my eyes, and in turn, my brain.
Green israel
26-10-2006, 20:09
No. The language. It hurts my eyes, and in turn, my brain.

the first article or the others?
Soheran
26-10-2006, 20:11
Can I see the Hebrew?

The other two seem nothing more than the typical self-righteous red herrings and straw men.
Psychotic Mongooses
26-10-2006, 20:13
the first article or the others?

The first. If the others are written by the same person, I'm not in the mood to put my brain through the stress of decoding it- sorry.
Green israel
26-10-2006, 20:16
The first. If the others are written by the same person, I'm not in the mood to put my brain through the stress of decoding it- sorry.

the first was translate by me, the others by people who do it much better.
it also contain small part of the article so almost each sentence stand by his own.
Nodinia
26-10-2006, 20:19
The usual wank. Ruins whatever valid point it may have by ignoring what Israel is currently doing.
Gravlen
26-10-2006, 20:25
The other two seem nothing more than the typical self-righteous red herrings and straw men.

Yup... And the first one really doesn't make any sense. It could be the translation, but I have my doubts to be honest.
Green israel
26-10-2006, 20:27
Can I see the Hebrew?

The other two seem nothing more than the typical self-righteous red herrings and straw men.
this is the sections of his articles
http://www.nrg.co.il/gevanew/owa/MORE_IN_ARTS.showPage?channel_name=channel_news&pt=2118732232&pid=/opinion/ben_dror_stars/


those are the articles in the hebrew versions.
first: http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/485/567.html
second: http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/482/564.html
third: http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/459/271.html

and bonus article where he show more leftist side.
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/466/745.html

as I read regularilly his articles in ma'ariv, I assume he centered in represent many.
Green israel
26-10-2006, 20:30
The usual wank. Ruins whatever valid point it may have by ignoring what Israel is currently doing.

nobody said israel does no wrong. just that the conflict show the double standart of the israeli-basher when you compare it to any other conflict in the world.
Soheran
26-10-2006, 20:31
just that the conflict show the double standart of the israeli-basher when you compare it to any other conflict in the world.

Assuming that the "Israel-basher" exclusively bashes Israel (which most do not).
Allers
26-10-2006, 20:39
from past experience I will assume you talked about the use of the word "jenocide".
this word is nothing but experession which don't help or harm the massage of the article.
anyway it is also well explained in the article why he use it like that.
well tell me what you mean by past experience(s) ,find one thread where i assume to use the word "jenocide"...
I don't spell good ,but what is that?
the shoah?
do you think only "jews"were targeted?
Green israel
26-10-2006, 20:50
Assuming that the "Israel-basher" exclusively bashes Israel (which most do not).

compare ammount of organization deal with that, article about the issue, times sometone calling for destruction/ embargo against israel, un resolutions and all those things to any other conflict in the world considering the proportions of the populaces take direct part of it.
you may see the world make one more small conflict (in any proportion) to one of the main ones, and it deal with it using double standarts relatively to all the other conflicts.
Soheran
26-10-2006, 20:53
compare ammount of organization deal with that, article about the issue, times sometone calling for destruction/ embargo against israel, un resolutions and all those things to any other conflict in the world considering the proportions of the populaces take direct part of it.

I agree that the attention directed to the matter is absurdly disproportionate, but it has always been; this is not the fault of those who oppose Israel's policy against the Palestinians.

How many countries in the world receive the same quantity of aid that Israel does from the US? How many have well-funded, well-connected lobbying organizations like AIPAC on their side?
Green israel
26-10-2006, 20:59
well tell me what you mean by past experience(s) ,find one thread where i assume to use the word "jenocide"...sorry, but before some time I tried to translate this article and everybody attacked the use of this world. nothing to do with you.

I don't spell good ,but what is that?
the shoah?so I guess I wrong when I thought those translators actually know how to translate.
do you think only "jews"were targeted?in the holocust?no where was it written?
Allers
26-10-2006, 21:03
sorry, but before some time I tried to translate this article and everybody attacked the use of this world. nothing to do with you.

so I guess I wrong when I thought those translators actually know how to translate.
in the holocust?no where was it written?
jenocide as a hintch
Green israel
26-10-2006, 21:08
I agree that the attention directed to the matter is absurdly disproportionate, but it has always been; this is not the fault of those who oppose Israel's policy against the Palestinians.

How many countries in the world receive the same quantity of aid that Israel does from the US? How many have well-funded, well-connected lobbying organizations like AIPAC on their side?
the palastinians do.
and although those facts explain the interst of the subject, it don't solve the problem of the double standarts.
I probably translate it bad, but still: 2 different bodies with different goals and definitions dealing with refugees. people die in number which are dozens of times greater, and aren't get attention. many countries made much worse "war crimes" but nobody notice.
there is double standarts which held by many, and you can't solve the core problems while such things involved in.