NationStates Jolt Archive

Now there's a title you don't see every day. :D

Seriously though, something weird happened today:

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-10-25T191635Z_01_L25388477_RTRUKOC_0_US-GERMANY-ISRAEL-INCIDENT.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsHome-C1-topNews-8
Israel, Germany at odds over Lebanon air incident

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel denied a German newspaper report on Wednesday that two of its air force planes had fired twice as they flew over a German navy vessel patrolling the Lebanon coast.

Germany's Defense Ministry said an incident had occurred, without giving details.

The German daily Der Tagesspiegel quoted a German junior defense minister as telling a parliamentary committee two Israeli F-16 fighters had flown low over the ship, firing twice.

The jets also activated infra-red countermeasures to ward off any rocket attack, the paper quoted him as saying, in an advance release from Thursday's edition.

"There was no such incident," an Israeli military spokeswoman said.

She said the German statements appeared to refer to an incident that took place on Tuesday. Jets were scrambled when a helicopter took off from a German aircraft carrier close to Israeli waters without identifying itself.

The planes realized the mistake, did not engage the helicopter and returned home, the spokeswoman said.

Germany assumed command of a United Nations naval force off Lebanon 10 days ago, and has sent eight ships and 1,000 service personnel to join the international peace operation in the region.

The naval force is charged with preventing weapons smuggling and helping maintain a ceasefire between Israel and the Lebanese Islamic militant group Hezbollah.

© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.

This (http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/nachrichten/libanon-einsatz/78399.asp) is the original story in the Tagesspiegel, in German.

What do you think happened? Who's lying?

I think someone was high.

Germany has aircraft carriers?

Germany has aircraft carriers?

Not as far as I know... they're not mentioned anywhere in the articles either. Why?

Germany has aircraft carriers?
Yep. Prime condition too (sorta...but you can fix that right up). Wanna buy one (http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,428857,00.html)?

No, seriously. The ship in question would've been a frigate with a helicopter on the back, ie Brandenburg or Bremen Class.

ATTENTION - IDF ANNOUCEMENT:
The IDF apologises to those murdering hun nazis for attacking their ship, we thought it was a Hezbollah Aircraft Carrier under orders from Iran/Syria/Jordan.

Germany has aircraft carriers?

Exactly what I was wondering...a cursory check of Wiki and Globalsecurity.org indicates no such vessel.

The helicopter must have been taking off from a frigate or something..."aircraft carrier" just looks sexier in print. :p

Not as far as I know... they're not mentioned anywhere in the articles either. Why?

She said the German statements appeared to refer to an incident that took place on Tuesday. Jets were scrambled when a helicopter took off from a German aircraft carrier close to Israeli waters without identifying itself.

;)

Exactly what I was wondering...a cursory check of Wiki and Globalsecurity.org indicates no such vessel.

The helicopter must have been taking off from a frigate or something...aircraft carrier just looks sexier in print. :p

Considering that it was on a patrolling mission, it would have been a bit overboard to employ an aircraft carrier, even if Germany has one. Helicopters don't need aircraft carriers to land or take off, afaik.

Israel!
Just like the attack on that US Spy ship back in the day!

Considering that it was on a patrolling mission, it would have been a bit overboard to employ an aircraft carrier, even if Germany has one. Helicopters don't need aircraft carriers to land or take off, afaik.
There are Aircraft carriers dedicated solely to Helicopters.

;)

Sorry... I only skimmed through the English article, I read the German one. ;)

Considering that it was on a patrolling mission, it would have been a bit overboard to employ an aircraft carrier, even if Germany has one. Helicopters don't need aircraft carriers to land or take off, afaik.

Helicopters can operate from all but the smallest frigates, and even some corvettes.

Germany has no aircraft carriers. But that's not the point of the thread.

The ships (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,437837,00.html) sent down there were four fast attack boats of the Gepard Class and two frigates, one Brandenburg Class (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/brand/), one Bremen Class (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/f122/). They both have landing pads for Sea Lynx (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lynx/) helicopters, I'm not sure whether the new NH90 (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nh90/) can land there too.

Germany has no aircraft carriers. But that's not the point of the thread.

The ships (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,437837,00.html) sent down there were four fast attack boats of the Gepard Class and two frigates, one Brandenburg Class (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/brand/), one Bremen Class (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/f122/). They both have landing pads for Sea Lynx (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lynx/) helicopters, I'm not sure whether the new NH90 (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nh90/) can land there too.

Well, other than that there's not really that much to discuss, right? Germany claims that shots were fired by the Israeli planes, but is still investigating the exact circumstances.
Israel says, no, never happened, but the helicopter scared us... *shrugs*

"There was no such incident," an Israeli military spokeswoman said.
A relative of Comical Ali?:p

Israel says, no, never happened, but the helicopter scared us... *shrugs*
Well, these are two seperate incidents. There was the thing with the helicopter, which was okay. The IDF jets just returned straight back when they found out who it was.

This other case was a ship just hanging around and IDF jets flying above it at low altitude and showing off their equipment. Or so say the Germans.

And that comes on the back of the various fly-overs of IDF jets over Lebanon (which is supposed to be off-limits for the Israelis with the peacekeepers there and all) and the French saying the Israelis should tone it down a bit.

Looks almost like a "show of force" sort of thing as both sides are arm wrestling and trying to assert themselves. I just thought this particular incident was a bit iffy, seeing as to how the discussion in Germany was all about avoiding German soldiers clashing with Israelis.

Well, these are two seperate incidents. There was the thing with the helicopter, which was okay. The IDF jets just returned straight back when they found out who it was.

This other case was a ship just hanging around and IDF jets flying above it at low altitude and showing off their equipment. Or so say the Germans.

And that comes on the back of the various fly-overs of IDF jets over Lebanon (which is supposed to be off-limits for the Israelis with the peacekeepers there and all) and the French saying the Israelis should tone it down a bit.

Looks almost like a "show of force" sort of thing as both sides are arm wrestling and trying to assert themselves. I just thought this particular incident was a bit iffy, seeing as to how the discussion in Germany was all about avoiding German soldiers clashing with Israelis.


I assumed they both were giving accounts of the same event? After all, both parties are talking about the same day, right?

If that was a show of force, I personally would say it was a bit ridiculous, wouldn't you?
And so far nobody clashed, yet, as the German vessel didn't return fire nor reacted in any way to the provocation

Germany has no aircraft carriers. But that's not the point of the thread.

The ships (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,437837,00.html) sent down there were four fast attack boats of the Gepard Class and two frigates, one Brandenburg Class (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/brand/), one Bremen Class (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/f122/). They both have landing pads for Sea Lynx (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lynx/) helicopters, I'm not sure whether the new NH90 (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nh90/) can land there too.
Scrapped them to make more U-Boats?;)

I assumed they both were giving accounts of the same event? After all, both parties are talking about the same day, right?
To be honest, I am a bit confused now. I have about five different links, and they all say something different.
Reuters says that the helicopter thing happened on Tuesday, while the German guy was speaking about Wednesday, so I assumed it was a second incident.

If that was a show of force, I personally would say it was a bit ridiculous, wouldn't you?
Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine what interest the IDF would have in doing this. But then, I don't see why the German defense ministry would want to make up something like this either.

It's all rather strange.

And so far nobody clashed, yet, as the German vessel didn't return fire or reacted in any way to the provocation.
Well, good. I wouldn't expect them too...and besides, two modern F-16s in close range against ancient and underfunded frigates on the lookout for smugglers in dinghies. Wouldn't have been pretty.

To be honest, I am a bit confused now. I have about five different links, and they all say something different.
Reuters says that the helicopter thing happened on Tuesday, while the German guy was speaking about Wednesday, so I assumed it was a second incident.

It says the newspaper report is from Wednesday, so I think the incident would have occured before. ;)


Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine what interest the IDF would have in doing this. But then, I don't see why the German defense ministry would want to make something like this either.


My guess would be that two pilots wanted to show off, and the Israeli military administration is loath to admit that.

what ever the germans say, i going to assume is true.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/779483.html
...The Israel Defense Forces spokesman conceded that an incident occurred Tuesday morning: a helicopter took off from a ship off of Rosh Hanikra without identifying itself, as agreed upon with the United Nations. As a result, jets were scrambled, but the IDF said no missiles were fired, although the planes discharged flares. Tensions have been on the rise over the past few days between Israel and UNIFIL, whose commanders are complaining of Israeli flyovers in Lebanese air space...

Hey, maybe the German Navy is so badly trained that they can't tell flares from missiles or autocannon rounds. :D

what ever the germans say, i going to assume is true.

yes those naziboys are glorious! damn those zionist bastards!

(Seriously I always assume Israel is lying, are the bad guys and such, their foreign "policys" scare me, really destabilazing (sorry spelling))

yes those naziboys are glorious! damn those zionist bastards!

(Seriously I always assume Israel is lying, are the bad guys and such, their foreign "policys" scare me, really destabilazing (sorry spelling))

since its hard to get peoples tone when they type, i hope you are joking about germans being nazi's.
if not, germany tries very hard to stamp down the return nazism. so much they restrict the most important right, freedom speach. mein kampf is banned they jailed a singer for singing pro-nazi's songs. which i think is wrong, the nazi's should be allowed speak thier views. its alwasy good to know who the nazi's are.

While I didn't really appreciate that incident (why would I?) - I'll take a wild guess and say the Israelis were just testing how far they could go until they receive a reaction. Provocation to test the U.N.'s forces' resolve.
Reminded a lot of the little story that happened in the no-fly-zone over Lebanon with our French friends and allies.

While I didn't really appreciate that incident (why would I?) - I'll take a wild guess and say the Israelis were just testing how far they could go until they receive a reaction. Provocation to test the U.N.'s forces' resolve.
Reminded a lot of the little story that happened in the no-fly-zone over Lebanon with our French friends and allies.
Indeed.

Possibly the French and Germans should load up their SAMs and prove a point if the Israelis start flying into Lebanese territory again.

Indeed.

Possibly the French and Germans should load up their SAMs and prove a point if the Israelis start flying into Lebanese territory again.
And have one of our precious ships sunk for nothing? Nah.

How about les Frenchies and ze Germans write a little letter, or better, make a phone call to the Israelis telling them that we indeed do have SAMs and might even figure out how to use them. Maybe they didn't know?

A relative of Comical Ali?:p

Jerusalem Joe.

And have one of our precious ships sunk for nothing? Nah.

How about les Frenchies and ze Germans write a little letter, or better, make a phone call to the Israelis telling them that we indeed do have SAMs and might even figure out how to use them. Maybe they didn't know?
Hey - if they blow one of your ships up, they are SERIOUS trouble from the UN.

Sanctions etc. which would be nice.

Jerusalem Joe.

Great... now I have hot tea up my nose.

:D :D :D

Jerusalem Joe.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/Pergament.jpg
Hey - if they blow one of your ships up, they are SERIOUS trouble from the UN.

Sanctions etc. which would be nice.
I don't think it would really come to that. After all, the German Israeli partnership is a very special one. I don't think any side would honestly want to threaten those relations.
Great... now I have hot tea up my nose.

:D :D :D
Cabra! You're here long enough to know not to eat nor drink during NSG sessions ;) Hope you'll be okay. :p

And have one of our precious ships sunk for nothing? Nah.

How about les Frenchies and ze Germans write a little letter, or better, make a phone call to the Israelis telling them that we indeed do have SAMs and might even figure out how to use them. Maybe they didn't know?

Actually, the French did say something quite like that.

"These violations are extremely dangerous because they may be felt as hostile by forces of the coalition that could be brought to retaliate in case of self-defense and it would be a very serious incident," the French minister said.

She was reacting to a suggestion made here Thursday by the commander of UN troops in Lebanon, French General Alain Pellegrini, that the rules of engagement for his forces might have to be changed to allow the use of force to stop the Israeli air violations.

"If the diplomatic means should not be enough, maybe it could be considered other ways," Pellegrini added, referring to the possible use of anti-aircraft missiles by French forces in Lebanon.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061020/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictlebanon

Just a point: any ship, be it a Frigate, Destroyer, whatever, that has the capability of carrying an aircraft (even helicopters) is an aircraft carrier.

Just a point: any ship, be it a Frigate, Destroyer, whatever, that has the capability of carrying an aircraft (even helicopters) is an aircraft carrier.

The term 'Aircraft Carrier' refers to a specific type of ship. Just as 'Battleship' does not refer to every type of warship that goes into battle.

Actually, the French did say something quite like that.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061020/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictlebanon

Huh.

Now isn't that interesting! (And I didn't even know that les Frenchies said somthing alike.)

Looks like a normal procedure. :D

Germany and Israel risked a serious incident yesterday.
As reported by "La Repubblica" (italian newspaper), two helicopters took off from a German frigate cruising off Lebanese coast and failed to send proper radio signals to identify themselves as UNIFIL aircrafts. Two Israeli F-16s fired warning shots (cannon and IR missiles) at them. Luckily nobody was hit, German helos landed back on the frigate and the German Navy didn't fire back at the Israeli fighters.
Germany and Israel ministers have reached an agreement about a tightening of security levels and coordination of airspace control, to ensure that similar incidents won't happen anymore.

I have to say, pheeew! We were all lucky this time, the last thing we need is a German frigate taking down Israeli aircrafts in such a stupid incident. Thanks to Athena goddess of reason;) , no one lost his nerves.

Those Israelis, they're so jumpy! You'd think they were surrounded by nations that wanted to, like, drive them into the sea or something. They should, you know, chill out.

Germany and Israel risked a serious incident yesterday.
As reported by "La Repubblica" (italian newspaper), two helicopters took off from a German frigate cruising off Lebanese coast and failed to send proper radio signals to identify themselves as UNIFIL aircrafts. Two Israeli F-16s fired warning shots (cannon and IR missiles) at them. Luckily nobody was hit, German helos landed back on the frigate and the German Navy didn't fire back at the Israeli fighters.
Germany and Israel ministers have reached an agreement about a tightening of security levels and coordination of airspace control, to ensure that similar incidents won't happen anymore.

I have to say, pheeew! We were all lucky this time, the last thing we need is a German frigate taking down Israeli aircrafts in such a stupid incident. Thanks to Athena goddess of reason;) , no one lost his nerves.

How do you shoot a warning shot with an IR missile? Fire it without a tone? I wouldn't want to shoot one toward another aircraft, unless I wanted to splash it. It isn't like an unguided weapon that you can aim close, an IR missile is going to track, as long as it's armed. Plus, it seems kind of expensive for a warning shot, both in terms of money and in terms of available armament.

Maybe they just shot Zunis?

Good to see it reported elsewhere, too.

BTW, Neu Leonstein has beaten you to this thread. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11859080#post11859080 :p

How do you shoot a warning shot with an IR missile? Fire it without a tone? I wouldn't want to shoot one toward another aircraft, unless I wanted to splash it. It isn't like an unguided weapon that you can aim close, an IR missile is going to track, as long as it's armed.


Yeah, I know what an IR missile is, and the thing quite surprised me. Anyway, that's what the newspaper said. So, one of the following:
1.Newspaper was wrong about missiles
2.IAF's got so much money they can afford to fire a missile without locking onto the target
3.German helo countermissile defence is AWESOME!

I'll go with #1 as the more likely.

Good to see it reported elsewhere, too.

BTW, Neu Leonstein has beaten you to this thread. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11859080#post11859080 :p

Damn.:( (;))

The last thing that area needs over there is a 60 year old grudge of germans vs. jews.:eek:

GRRR...

NL, how do you DARE to beat me to such a thread?:mad:

:D :D :D

Well, finally Germans could stop pretending they liked Jews... :rolleyes:

Well, finally Germans could stop pretending they liked Jews... :rolleyes:

there is always one.

you would swear it wasnt israel breaking the ceasefire here :rolleyes:

Well, finally Germans could stop pretending they liked Jews... :rolleyes:

Where do I have that list of your posts mr nazi?

there is always one.

you would swear it wasnt israel breaking the ceasefire here :rolleyes:

Israel doesnt like international law. They feel its beneath them, being the chosen people and all.

Israel doesnt like international law. They feel its beneath them, being the chosen people and all.

Another moron who doesn't understand the idea of "chosen people." Any person who has studied Judaism and the beliefs behind it knows that the idea of being the chosen people means that the Jews are supposed to follow all 613 Commandments. They don't get any special privaleges for being Jews, just a crap load of responsibilities.

Please come back here and post when you grow up and learn how to read.

Another moron who doesn't understand the idea of "chosen people." Any person who has studied Judaism and the beliefs behind it knows that the idea of being the chosen people means that the Jews are supposed to follow all 613 Commandments. They don't get any special privaleges for being Jews, just a crap load of responsibilities.

Please come back here and post when you grow up and learn how to read.

I understand the jew just fine thank you.

I understand the jew just fine thank you.

You are obviously ignorant on the idea of the "chosen people."

You are obviously ignorant on the idea of the "chosen people."
Or maybe you're just hideously in denial.

Or maybe you're just hideously in denial.

LOL. This is coming from the same person who has posted numerous times that the US Government carried out the 9-11 attacks. Come back to this thread when you develop a sense of logic.

LOL. This is coming from the same person who has posted numerous times that the US Government carried out the 9-11 attacks. Come back to this thread when you develop a sense of logic.
"Chosen People" suggests a level of superiority over others, no?

Bit up their own arse to be honest. Human Rights laws apply to them, as well, as much as they'd love to try and ignore them.

What a stupid incident! When the hell did the Hezbollah get attack helicopters, nevermind attack helicopters with german military markings. :p

What the fuck were Isreali warplanes doing firing at ANY german aircraft over the lebanese coast, Unifil identification or not!

"Chosen People" suggests a level of superiority over others, no?

Bit up their own arse to be honest. Human Rights laws apply to them, as well, as much as they'd love to try and ignore them.

Did you just read what I wrote above? The chosen people means chosen to follow extra laws, not chosen for power or anything.

I've said this once and I'll say it again.

LEARN HOW TO ****ING READ.

Did you just read what I wrote above? The chosen people means chosen to follow extra laws, not chosen for power or anything.

I've said this once and I'll say it again.

LEARN HOW TO ****ING READ.
And as I've said -

"Chosen People" suggests them being better than everyone else.

What a stupid incident! When the hell did the Hezbollah get attack helicopters, nevermind attack helicopters with german military markings. :p

What the fuck were Isreali warplanes doing firing at ANY german aircraft over the lebanese coast, Unifil identification or not!

This was actually off the Israeli coast according to some of the articles on this topic. When you're surrounded by enemies who make it no secret that they wish to commit genocide against you, you have to be paranoid to survive. See 1967 or 1973.

And as I've said -

"Chosen People" suggests them being better than everyone else.

It only suggests that to the uneducated such as yourself. Read the Bible yourself and you will see what it means. You know NOTHING about Judaism and your interprestation of chosen people proves that.

It only suggests that to the uneducated such as yourself. Read the Bible yourself and you will see what it means. You know NOTHING about Judaism and your interprestation of chosen people proves that.
*sighs*

They wouldn't have been called "chosen people" were they not viewed higher than others, no?

*sighs*

They wouldn't have been called "chosen people" were they not viewed higher than others, no?We are called the chosen people as in chosen to follow all 613 commandments where as non-Jews just follow the 10 commandments. I've repeated this now 3 or 4 times. Are you seriously this dense?

We are called the chosen people as in chosen to follow all 613 commandments where as non-Jews just follow the 10 commandments. I've repeated this now 3 or 4 times. Are you seriously this dense?
No, I think we actually are agreeing on this one, but out views on this differ.

This was actually off the Israeli coast according to some of the articles on this topic. When you're surrounded by enemies who make it no secret that they wish to commit genocide against you, you have to be paranoid to survive. See 1967 or 1973.

There's Paranoid and then there's Paranoid Schizophrenic. :p

No, I think we actually are agreeing on this one, but out views on this differ.

Chosen people doesn't apply superiority. Look up the nearest temple in your phone book and call the Rabbi. Ask him what chosen people means and he will explain to you that it does NOT entail any superiority over others and that Jews are told that believing so goes against many beliefs in Judaism.

There's Paranoid and then there's Paranoid Schizophrenic. :p

plus an itchy trigger finger :p

Chosen people doesn't apply superiority. Look up the nearest temple in your phone book and call the Rabbi. Ask him what chosen people means and he will explain to you that it does NOT entail any superiority over others and that Jews are told that believing so goes against many beliefs in Judaism.


No it doesnt. In fact I think theres a part in the torah saying its ok for Jews to enslave others.

Chosen people doesn't apply superiority. Look up the nearest temple in your phone book and call the Rabbi. Ask him what chosen people means and he will explain to you that it does NOT entail any superiority over others and that Jews are told that believing so goes against many beliefs in Judaism.
*sighs*

So why is the term "chosen people" used?

plus an itchy trigger finger :p

IF you study the history of the Jews, you would understand why this is.

I believe Golda Meier said it best when she said the following: "No one believed Hitler when he said he would kill the Jews. We in Israel will certainly believe the Arabs when they say the same." Understanding that quote is key should you wish to understand why Israel acts how it does.

Understanding that quote is key should you wish to understand why Israel acts how it does.

Shoot at anything that moves regardless of a thought process? Yeah, you're right. That about sums it up alright.

*sighs*

So why is the term "chosen people" used?

Who knows? I've heard 2 things. One being a poor translation from Hebrew to English (note that translations from the Bible were first from Hebrew to Greek then English.) The other I heard is that it was a term used by Christians in Europe.

Understanding that quote is key should you wish to understand why Israel acts how it does.

So basically the Nazis caused all jews to unreasonably paranoid? Tell me something I didnt know.

IF you study the history of the Jews, you would understand why this is.

I believe Golda Meier said it best when she said the following: "No one believed Hitler when he said he would kill the Jews. We in Israel will certainly believe the Arabs when they say the same." Understanding that quote is key should you wish to understand why Israel acts how it does.
What, "do it to them before they do it to us!"?

Yeah, I know what an IR missile is, and the thing quite surprised me. Anyway, that's what the newspaper said. So, one of the following:
1.Newspaper was wrong about missiles
2.IAF's got so much money they can afford to fire a missile without locking onto the target
3.German helo countermissile defence is AWESOME!

I'll go with #1 as the more likely.

LOL. With what I know about aviation reporting, I'd concur. From Leo's post, it seems like the Falcons dispensed a few flares, as an IR countermeasure.

Who knows? I've heard 2 things. One being a poor translation from Hebrew to English (note that translations from the Bible were first from Hebrew to Greek then English.) The other I heard is that it was a term used by Christians in Europe.
OK then...

Huh? When did that become two helicopters? The German government only mentioned one.... :confused:

When did this forum become so antisemitic?

When did this forum become so antisemitic?

This forum is officially anti- everything.
You name it, there's going to be people against it.

Except maybe pie.... :D

When did this forum become so antisemitic?

Probably around the same time that criticising Israel became synonymous with antisemitism. :)

This forum is officially anti- everything.
You name it, there's going to be people against it.

Except maybe pie.... :D

Mmmm... Pie :fluffle:

Mmmm... Pie :fluffle:

Ah, but can we agree on the best kind of pie?
And, more importantly for this thread, will it be kosher pie? ;)

Ah, but can we agree on the best kind of pie?
And, more importantly for this thread, will it be kosher pie? ;)

I don't know... I think Apple pie will be at the top of my list. Probably followed by blueberry...

But I shall not hate those who choose otherwise. Nor shall I start a war. I shall not. I shall not. I shall not. http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/happy077.gif

:p

When did this forum become so antisemitic?
May 14th, 1948.

If you call anti-Israeli anti-Semitic, that is.

Israel doesnt like international law. They feel its beneath them, being the chosen people and all.
I think it's high time God set the record straight and told the zealots of the world to lay off or he's going to start lobbing the smites of doom.

This was actually off the Israeli coast according to some of the articles on this topic. When you're surrounded by enemies who make it no secret that they wish to commit genocide against you, you have to be paranoid to survive. See 1967 or 1973.Which one? There have been serious doubts as to the Israeli version of the story and the government is beginning to back down from their version.

I'm sure if the Israelis are that paranoid, they'd be tracking UNIFIL ships and would have known exactly who it was.

You are obviously ignorant on the idea of the "chosen people."

Yeah, chosen by themselves.

When did this forum become so antisemitic?

What do you mean? Nobody is against Semites here.

Interesting update: The Israeli government now confirms the German version of the story.
BBC hasn't picked up on it yet. The only source I have is the ARD (http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldungen/0,1185,OID6039368_TYP6_THE_NAV_REF1_BAB,00.html), which is in German.

Interesting update: The Israeli government now confirms the German version of the story.
BBC hasn't picked up on it yet. The only source I have is the ARD (http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldungen/0,1185,OID6039368_TYP6_THE_NAV_REF1_BAB,00.html), which is in German.

No explanation why they did it, though, as far as I can see.... :confused:

Yeah, chosen by themselves.

WTF do you mean Mr. Nazi.

WTF do you mean Mr. Nazi.Is there more than one way this could be meant Mr Braindead?
.

Interesting update: The Israeli government now confirms the German version of the story.
BBC hasn't picked up on it yet. The only source I have is the ARD (http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldungen/0,1185,OID6039368_TYP6_THE_NAV_REF1_BAB,00.html), which is in German.
That is interesting.

So it was a recon military intelligence boat, along Lebanon's coast and had nothing to do with the helicopter - and they caught the whole thing on camera.

Weird. Why would the IDF do that?

Why would the IDF do that?
To test the limits of Germany's patience. Same reason it flew over French UN troops.

That is interesting.

So it was a recon military intelligence boat, along Lebanon's coast and had nothing to do with the helicopter - and they caught the whole thing on camera.

Weird. Why would the IDF do that?
Yeah, don't the Israelis usually just sink foreign vessels off their coasts? The USS Liberty didn't fare as well as the German ship.

Yeah, don't the Israelis usually just sink foreign vessels off their coasts? The USS Liberty didn't fare as well as the German ship.
Well, the Israelis now confirmed that the ship was still within the deployment zone of the German Navy, which is along Lebanon's and not Israel's coastline.

EDIT: Found a link.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=76475

http://www.marine.de/02DB070000000001/CurrentBaseLink/W26RCAHF240INFODE/$FILE/_640.jpg
This is the boat in question.

And people from the Navy have been quoted as saying that the Israelis wanted to warn them because they're just not happy that recon (read: spy) boats can operate so close to them. (link in German (http://www.fuldainfo.de/page/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=11933&PHPKITSID=1663d9e295b4090ac32b0bda80cb5acb))

Is there more than one way this could be meant Mr Braindead?
.

You yourself have admitted to hating all Jews. I just find it how you call me braindead when you seem to be quite ignorant of the facts surrounding the situation in the Middle East.

WTF do you mean Mr. Nazi.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6646/dontfeedmodsix7.gif

Sorry to dig this up, but I think this is just too good to pass up. I love a bit of controversy. :D

The first incident was the one about the helicopter start that the IDF didn't know about, so they sent their jets on an overflight. Problem was: apparently they actually locked their radars onto the helicopter...and the commander of the German UNIFIL forces was on board that thing!

The second was an overflight + warning shots of the 'Alster' a recon ship with advanced listening equipment. Vice Admiral Stricker (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,445123,00.html) of the German Navy said the Israelis may just be afraid that a ship like that can watch them a bit too closely for their liking.
The 'Alster' shot a video of the incident, and the opposition FDP is calling for it to be made public (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,445206,00.html) to end the speculation, which the government has so far refused to do - potentially to save the Israeli government further embarassment.

And now there has been a third incident (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,445265,00.html)! An IDF F-16 'harassed' a German Navy helicopter, flying "dangerously close" to it.

Olmert has called Merkel (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,445313,00.html) and promised to her on the phone that it won't happen again, and asked the German Navy to stay, since their mission is very important.

Time for speculation: What do you think? Official IDF policy? Pilots eager to show it to 'the Germans'?

Sorry to dig this up, but I think this is just too good to pass up. I love a bit of controversy. :D

The first incident was the one about the helicopter start that the IDF didn't know about, so they sent their jets on an overflight. Problem was: apparently they actually locked their radars onto the helicopter...and the commander of the German UNIFIL forces was on board that thing!

The second was an overflight + warning shots of the 'Alster' a recon ship with advanced listening equipment. Vice Admiral Stricker (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,445123,00.html) of the German Navy said the Israelis may just be afraid that a ship like that can watch them a bit too closely for their liking.
The 'Alster' shot a video of the incident, and the opposition FDP is calling for it to be made public (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,445206,00.html) to end the speculation, which the government has so far refused to do - potentially to save the Israeli government further embarassment.

And now there has been a third incident (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,445265,00.html)! An IDF F-16 'harassed' a German Navy helicopter, flying "dangerously close" to it.

Olmert has called Merkel (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,445313,00.html) and promised to her on the phone that it won't happen again, and asked the German Navy to stay, since their mission is very important.

Time for speculation: What do you think? Official IDF policy? Pilots eager to show it to 'the Germans'?

Unofficial IDF policy - them wanting to show the pestering international forces their strength. And issue a warning. Some of the generals have itchy trigger-fingers...

This forum is officially anti- everything.
You name it, there's going to be people against it.

Except maybe pie.... :D

I absolutely hate pie, its ruining america. Pie should go back to whatever 3r world hellhole it came from.

Time for speculation: What do you think? Official IDF policy? Pilots eager to show it to 'the Germans'?

Given the IDF's penchant for this sort of action when faced with non-locals 'interfering' in their sphere, it's not really that much of a surprise, is it?