NationStates Jolt Archive

Topic.

after the collapse of the holy roman empire probably. they still have power over the catholic church tho and influence in italian politics no doubt.

Last Tuesday afternoon.

after the collapse of the holy roman empire probably. they still have power over the catholic church tho and influence in italian politics no doubt.

I thought it might be when HRE citizens went Protestant. The one nation that always supports the Pope, and they go at have a reformation.

They didn't suddenly have power, then loose it. It was a gradual process, many people still argue that the vatican still has a lot of power.

When Martin Luther nailed his 'why the catholic church is shit' list the door.

About the time people started thinking for themselves.

Topic.

1870

Yesterday, at about twenty past 9.

1870

1870's certainly when the Church lost the remains of its holdings outside Vatican City. Here's a bit from Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_States).

1870's certainly when the Church lost the remains of its holdings outside Vatican City. Here's a bit from Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_States).

No, this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bit) is a bit from Wiki.

No, this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bit) is a bit from Wiki.

Thats possibly the worst pun I've ever heard.

Well done!

i guess it depends on what you mean by the vatican and what you mean by real power


the pope still has immense power over hundreds of millions of people. he is a force for the catholic point of view against abortion and the death penalty even in secular states and majority non-catholic states.

the rest of the vatican only holds the power the pope and the structure of the church allows them.

I have as much authority as the Pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it. -George Carlin

No, this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bit) is a bit from Wiki.

Argh ... :rolleyes:

I have as much authority as the Pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it. -George Carlin

http://www.xfamily.org/images/5/53/Pope-card.gif

1870's certainly when the Church lost the remains of its holdings outside Vatican City. Here's a bit from Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_States).

Well, that's what I would call real power. Everything else is indirect power... :)

Well, that's what I would call real power. Everything else is indirect power... :)

Absolutely, I mean, when the Pope speaks, quite a few people listen, regardless of his lack of temporal power. Though I am reminded of Stalin's remark when told the Pope disapproved of something during WWII: "How many divisions does the Pope have?"

Topic.

If only that were true. They never should have had any.

But even if they had no other influence, they are the single richest entity on Earth. Their influence just on the US Stock Market would probably surprise you.

I think the power of the Catholic Church waned severely after the 30 years war, because the the Treaty of Westphalia demarcated Catholic & Protestant areas, officially legitemising the Protestant churches.

Absolutely, I mean, when the Pope speaks, quite a few people listen, regardless of his lack of temporal power. Though I am reminded of Stalin's remark when told the Pope disapproved of something during WWII: "How many divisions does the Pope have?"

Some listen, some don't. Do you think a pope today would be able to call for a crusade again? ;)

No, this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bit) is a bit from Wiki.

*awards the Branin A1+ Awesomley Retarded Pun Award*

Its a good thing, I promise.

Some listen, some don't. Do you think a pope today would be able to call for a crusade again? ;)

yes.



in all seriousness, there is still a lot of catholics, and a lot of them like the pope. and if he played his cards right...you know how many flocked to the vatican when the last one died...they could at least have signifacant impact with a holy boycott.

yes.



in all seriousness, there is still a lot of catholics, and a lot of them like the pope. and if he played his cards right...you know how many flocked to the vatican when the last one died...they could at least have signifacant impact with a holy boycott.

I'm not saying he has no influence at all, just look at the devastating effects his stand on condoms has in Africa at the moment.
He might call individuals to boycott certain items or institutions, of course. And if he did it with enough emphasis, he might even achieve some results. But he would no longer be able to force the leaders of nations to submit to his will like Gregory VII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walk_to_Canossa) was able to do...

There was a time when papal opinion was a very real factor in politics for all European nations, that's simply no longer the case.

Y'ask me, I'd say it was the moment Christ drew his last breath.
But you know...Im a Heathen and all, apparently.

Y'ask me, I'd say it was the moment Christ drew his last breath.
But you know...Im a Heathen and all, apparently.

Yes, because any Christian would tell you that Christianity didn't even have any authority as a religion before Christ rose again, what with the whole faith centred around the resurrection and all. If you mean his last breath before the ascension, well, you then have the task of proving that he doesn't breathe in heaven. I'm sure there is a PhD dissertation or two hundred in that question.

No, this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bit) is a bit from Wiki.

Nicep pun, thanks. :p

the pope still has immense power over hundreds of millions of people. he is a force for the catholic point of view against abortion and the death penalty even in secular states and majority non-catholic states.
Strange, then, that Italy has the lowest (IIRC) birth rate in the whole of Europe...

i suppose drop due to the peado stuff happening.

Strange, then, that Italy has the lowest (IIRC) birth rate in the whole of Europe...

He doesn't have much influence on any European state any more. The matter can be quite different in 3rd world countries, though.

I would say at the Founding of the Church of England.

I think the Vatican fears a founding of the Church of US/America/whatever it would be called.

They didn't suddenly have power, then loose it. It was a gradual process, many people still argue that the vatican still has a lot of power.

I argue that - a grreat power over countries like Malta, were my mother lives (we're not Maltese, though, we're Luxembourgish) and a power in the world to set off controversies - take the recent example, for instance. However, it has obviously declined - though you notice that practically every leader, from Queen Rania to Toyn Blair, at some point meets His Holiness.