NationStates Jolt Archive

okay, so really? I get emails daily about why not to shop at Walmart, usually from my more liberal of friends......


Reasons I have heard not to shop at Walmart

they don't pay enough
they put the little man out of business
they keep the poor people poor by making them buy stuff cheap
I don't like the way they look at me at 4am
they drive big trucks and use oil and stuff
they have that wall with the soldiers on it like they are heros or something


yeah, yeah, I have heard it all.......or so I thought.

Today I get a forwarded email with this link (http://www.afa.net/Petitions/IssueDetail.asp?id=220) in it.

Apparently now I am supposed to quit shopping there because of their "gay people agenda" :rolleyes:

They found like 2K gay things for sale......I looked up Christian and found about 60K things for sale....I think Walmart has a Christian agenda! LOL I emailed this to them and they said "it's not about what they sell, it's about how they treat gay people" to which I replied "poorly? like they treat everyone else? that sucks, you are right, if they don't start treating the gays nice I am not shopping there"

I think I may have gotten myself kicked out of the homeschool group with that.....

anywho, what do you think? (about anything in the above post)

questions:

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?

I hate being the sole voice of reason, yeah.

I have two questions before I let you qualify yourself as a voice of reason:
1. What, exactly, are you buying at 4 am?
2. How does buying cheap crap keep someone poor?

I buy nothing at 4AM, and I don't buy cheap crap.

Does that count?

I have two questions before I let you qualify yourself as a voice of reason:
1. What, exactly, are you buying at 4 am?
2. How does buying cheap crap keep someone poor?

they aren't my reasons, they are reasons I have heard from my friends.

I shop at Walmart. I don't have a problem with it, everyone else seems to think that it's a problem for me to shop there.

I fixed the OP to reflect that.

I don't shop there because I disapprove of their union-busting tactics among other things. I don't go picket, and I don't go out of my way to try to convince anyone else to do as I do--I just don't go there. I've got better places to spend my money.

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?

Hells yeah. Consumer power is just about the only concrete power any of us wields anymore. Why not use it for something?

I hate going to Walmart because it's always some sort of lottery game trying to find an employee who speaks English. :(

And no, I don't mean immigrants; I mean people who were presumably raised with English as their first language, but sound so much like they're trying to dictate through years and years of drug abuse that they're barely understandable.

That, and there's just this really lifeless, soulless feel in the entire store.

Because it's Chinamart?

Because it's Chinamart?

I'm pretty sure most things come from China these days...not that that's a bad thing, though, considering a product made in the US might cost anywhere from 25-100% more depending on what it is.

It's all a matter of utility...

I'm pretty sure most things come from China these days...not that that's a bad thing, though, considering a product made in the US might cost anywhere from 25-100% more depending on what it is.

It's all a matter of utility...I'm willing to pay more for something made in the US, simply because I feel like I'm supporting the US worker. I just buy fewer overall items. Cheaper is not always better when you factor in the social side of things.

I'm willing to pay more for something made in the US, simply because I feel like I'm supporting the US worker. I just buy fewer overall items. Cheaper is not always better when you factor in the social side of things.

That's why it's a question of utility rather than cost...you get more satisfaction from buying the US product even though you get fewer items overall, so in reality your utility is equal to or actually more than if you bought the cheaper Chinese products. It can be weird to differentiate between utility and cost, but it's an important difference.

That's why it's a question of utility rather than cost...you get more satisfaction from buying the US product even though you get fewer items overall, so in reality your net gain is actually more than if you bought the cheaper Chinese products.

You're missing the point, though.

Even if The Nazz didn't get more satisfaction from buying US products than Chinese ones, there might still be reasons that the US products should be preferred - like the "social side of things."

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?

I reserve the right to boycott anything for any reson I choose. I think that a boycott is okay in any situation, Its not always smart, but you have no obligation to give someone your business.

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?

No.

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?

No.

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?

Yes, unless it represents harm to myself, in which case I will take action to prevent that harm.

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?

Yes.

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?

I dont really get that kind of reputation.;)

You're missing the point, though.

Even if The Nazz didn't get more satisfaction from buying US products than Chinese ones, there might still be reasons that the US products should be preferred - like the "social side of things."

Isn't that satisfaction as well? People probably wouldn't consider the social costs of Walmart unless they wanted too. Generally, you do what you think is right because you get an innate satisfaction in doing right.

You buy American because you believe it's socially beneficial to do so, and that implies that you get satisfaction from buying in that manner. It's pretty rare for people to make socially-conscious decisions without having some satisfaction or desire to do that...we don't pay more for things unless the benefits of paying more exceed the costs, whatever those costs might be.

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?

No. Homophobia is a bad reason to do anything.

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?

No. I think they are looking for a profit.

I wish Wal-Mart really were sponsoring the Gay Agenda, though.

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?

Yes. Decent treatment should not be conditional.

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?

I tend not to have that problem; I don't use email much.

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?

Sometimes. Sometimes it can be a lot of fun.

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?
People have a right to do so if they wish, no matter how idiotic the reason. I just reserve the right to disagree.

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?
No. Wait, who? Wal-mart or the other guys?

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?
They're just trying to make money like everyone else. To exclude a specific group of clientele is not very profitable.

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?
Yes, very much so.

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?
Yes, very much so.

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?
I don't know if I could classify myself as being the sole voice of reason, but being surrounded by uber-idiots is rather scary.

Isn't that satisfaction as well? People probably wouldn't consider the social costs of Walmart unless they wanted too. Generally, you do what you think is right because you get an innate satisfaction in doing right.

The point is that the social costs of Wal-Mart are not conditional on people considering them.

Whether or not people derive satisfaction from "buying American" (which I think is a worthless and morally bankrupt line, for what it's worth), the social costs still exist. US workers don't stop losing jobs simply because the US consumer isn't concerned.

okay, so really? I get emails daily about why not to shop at Walmart, usually from my more liberal of friends......


Reasons I have heard not to shop at Walmart

they don't pay enough
they put the little man out of business
they keep the poor people poor by making them buy stuff cheap
I don't like the way they look at me at 4am
they drive big trucks and use oil and stuff
they have that wall with the soldiers on it like they are heros or something


yeah, yeah, I have heard it all.......or so I thought.

Today I get a forwarded email with this link (http://www.afa.net/Petitions/IssueDetail.asp?id=220) in it.

Apparently now I am supposed to quit shopping there because of their "gay people agenda" :rolleyes:

They found like 2K gay things for sale......I looked up Christian and found about 60K things for sale....I think Walmart has a Christian agenda! LOL I emailed this to them and they said "it's not about what they sell, it's about how they treat gay people" to which I replied "poorly? like they treat everyone else? that sucks, you are right, if they don't start treating the gays nice I am not shopping there"

I think I may have gotten myself kicked out of the homeschool group with that.....

anywho, what do you think? (about anything in the above post)

questions:

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?


I'm all in favor of boycotts. In general, I don't think they work, but I have boycotted, and will continue to boycott, businesses that have practices I dislike. I've boycotted Carl's Jr. because of poor service. I boycott Walmart because their policies are instrumental in outsourcing jobs to other countries with unethical labor practices. I do it, not because I think it will affect them one way or another, but because I can't, in good conscience, give money to something of which I disapprove.

The point is that the social costs of Wal-Mart are not conditional on people considering them.

Whether or not people derive satisfaction from "buying American" (which I think is a worthless and morally bankrupt line, for what it's worth), the social costs still exist. US workers don't stop losing jobs simply because the US consumer isn't concerned.

Well, of course not. If more people considered them, we probably wouldn't have to deal with them...and the less people consider them, the worse the problem becomes.

Unfortunately, however, I think many people are afflicted with a crippling case of social and economic myopia that prevents them from seeing the big picture and how it affects them in the long term.

Unfortunately, however, I think many people are afflicted with a crippling case of social and economic myopia that prevents them from seeing the big picture and how it affects them in the long term.

No one can consider everybody's welfare all the time. It is both intellectually and emotionally impossible.

The problem is that people across the planet are dependent on precisely that - on people on the other side of the world knowing about, caring about, and acting in their interests.

The ultimate solution is getting rid of that original dependence - not trusting the consumers to solve the problem.

I think consumer boycott is perfectly reasonable. If you don't like the way companies operate, then it's logical not to spend your money there.

No one can consider everybody's welfare all the time. It is both intellectually and emotionally impossible.

That's true, but a rudimentary look could tell you that this might not be the best course of action. Now, if you really can't afford to shop at other places I think that's a different story but for people who have higher incomes they should consider it.

The problem is that people across the planet are dependent on precisely that - on people on the other side of the world knowing about, caring about, and acting in their interests

The ultimate solution is getting rid of that original dependence - not trusting the consumers to solve the problem.

Of course, the question is whether or not we have enough time to really change such a fundamental backbone of our economic system, or if we will have to change what we can but leave it intact. For better or for worse, interdependence of that sort is well established and it would take a truly unprecedented shift in our society to alter it.

okay, so really? I get emails daily about why not to shop at Walmart, usually from my more liberal of friends......
Smunkee this is what you get for having liberal friends, or friends at all for that matter. If you were a social pariah like myself the only spam in your box would be of the impersonal Nigerian Prince variety...really it serves you right for being charming and personal. If you were more obnoxious you might not have these 'problems'


Reasons I have heard not to shop at Walmart

they don't pay enough
they put the little man out of business
True and true.

they keep the poor people poor by making them buy stuff cheap
:confused: alrighty....er....um....yeah?:confused:

I don't like the way they look at me at 4am
Personally I dont like the way I look at 4am, so I guess others looking at me at 4am probably doesnt float my boat, tickle my fancy, or spin my wheel...not sure how that would be walmart's fault though....:confused:

they drive big trucks and use oil and stuff
I expect they do.

they have that wall with the soldiers on it like they are heros or something

These would be some soldiers other than the soldiers risking (and in some cases losing) life, limb and sanity in the belief that they are serving their country?:confused:

yeah, yeah, I have heard it all.......or so I thought.
You shouldnt think that, everytime you do a kitten dies, that or someone invents something you havent heard before...generally the more nonsensical the better...

Today I get a forwarded email with this link (http://www.afa.net/Petitions/IssueDetail.asp?id=220) in it.

Apparently now I am supposed to quit shopping there because of their "gay people agenda" :rolleyes:
Hang on, are you implying that you were shopping at Walmart even though you knew they were 'heroising' heroes....what kind of sick puppy are you?!;)

They found like 2K gay things for sale
2K gay things? Does this mean 2000 'gay things', if not, what does it mean, if so, er forgive my lack of insight but what exactly is a 'gay thing' in terms of products....especially in terms of Walmart products? Am I missing something here?
......I looked up Christian and found about 60K things for sale....I think Walmart has a Christian agenda!
Ahh, I see the '2k of gay things' is to lull you into a false sense of security so they can then flog you Christian stuff and suck you into heroising heroes...just like Walmart itself does....clearly Walmart is single-handedly the true axis of evil.

LOL I emailed this to them and they said "it's not about what they sell, it's about how they treat gay people" to which I replied "poorly?
Yeah, they probably go out of their way to discriminate against gays, unlike everyone else they refuse to underpay gays and look at them with adoration at 4am in an attempt to alienate gays from the rest of the community.

like they treat everyone else? that sucks, you are right, if they don't start treating the gays nice I am not shopping there"
Like heroising heros isnt reason enough to take your dollars elsewhere...?:p

I think I may have gotten myself kicked out of the homeschool group with that.....
Good for you! Already you are on your way to taking my advice of following a no friends policy...now we just have to teach you to be a rude heartless bitch and you'll be up (or maybe that's down) there with the best (or should that be worst) of us?

anywho, what do you think? (about anything in the above post)
No fair, you didnt warn me thinking would be involved.:mad:

questions:

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?
Yeah, pretty much (if you mean is it ever ok, or do you mean is there no reason for boycotting that isnt ok...?)

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?
They? Walmart, the folk who sent this particular link to you, the folk who generally attempt to get you not to post at Walmart, or just anyone that engages in business boycotts?

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?
Only if 'agenda' refers to 'selling stuff', I'm quite certain businesses are more than capable of selling stuff for no more reason than to...well... sell stuff.

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?
No, I think that people ought to be treated at the outset with a particular degree of respect and dignity and this should be maintained in the absence of reasons to do otherwise. In the presence of reasons to do otherwise, there is still a floor which I dont think it's either appropriate or useful to sink below, conversely some people as a result of their conduct ought to be respected above and beyond the 'automatic default' accorded to everyone at the outset.

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?
Oh yeah! I most surely do!
don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?
How do you expect I'd know anything about that...?:confused:

Generally Smunkee, if you feel like it's ok for you to shop at Walmart, then it's very probable that for you it's ok...if you didnt think it were ok, I suspect you wouldnt shop there. You dont seem the type to ignore you own convictions, which is hardly the same thing as being open to obeying everyone else's convictions just because they'd like you to or just because you dont want to be the only one not following a herd...

I like Anti Social Darwinism's answer...
It boils down to this for me:
1.Our government, all of it, is being completely manipulated and influenced by powerful lobbyists from industry and corporations to maximize their profits for shareholders, regardless of its impact on the country.
2. Because of #1, the government has ceased to represent the best interest of the people, and instead represents the best interest of economic giants, which despite their best PR, do not care what is best for everyone, rather they only care for the bottom line: profits.
3. Big Box stores sell sweatshop goods made by foreign labor preferentially to US made goods. I support my fellow Americans, when I can find any business' or products run or made by them. (Getting harder to do...)
4. Wal Mart is a big fish in this equation.
5. I am a Constitutional patriot (as opposed to the flag waving, Chinese-made-magnetic-ribbon buying, chest thumping thug type.).
6. I do not shop where traitors (my personal definition) sell. This isn't just about Wal Mart for me. I buy local "Mom & Pop" first, if available, then local "chain". Then regional chain. Then, if I must, National chain with US products. If it's something I MUST have and only another country makes it, and/or a corporation sells it, I might buy it. But for it to get there, it better be a damned neccessity.

Just how I do things. Do it your own way; I sleep pretty good at night.
:sniper:

That's true, but a rudimentary look could tell you that this might not be the best course of action. Now, if you really can't afford to shop at other places I think that's a different story but for people who have higher incomes they should consider it.

I agree; taking the action you can take is good. I don't shop at Wal-Mart. But solving the greater problem often requires a whole lot more.

Of course, the question is whether or not we have enough time to really change such a fundamental backbone of our economic system, or if we will have to change what we can but leave it intact. For better or for worse, interdependence of that sort is well established and it would take a truly unprecedented shift in our society to alter it.

"Interdependence" isn't so much the problem as unequal levels of dependence, and thus of power.

My preference is for radical change - but there are still options within the system. Organizing workers meaningfully in places like China would be a good start; it empowers them directly, making them somewhat independent of the support of others. Keeping such organizations independent from the state and other power centers that might interfere would similarly be a worthy objective.

My reasons for not liking Wal-Mart:

1. They put small businesses out of business by using predatory pricing tactics, i.e., they cut prices to dirt cheap levels until all local competition closes down, then they jack them back up.:mad:

2. The loooooonnnnnnnnnggggggggg checkout lines, caused by only 3 or 4 lines (out of 30+) being open at any one time.

3. They force/pressure/bully their suppliers and manufacturers into selling their product(s) to Wal-Mart for less than they pay for it (suppliers) or less than it costs to make the merchandise (manufacturers), causing the suppliers and manufacturers to lose money.
To compensate for this, they have to cut costs.
To cut costs, they have to send their labor and manufacturing operations out of the United States, thereby damaging our economy through loss of manufacturing jobs.

4. Wal-Mart discriminates among its suppliers in favor of homosexuals ("I'm sorry, sir, but we've decided not to buy anything from you because you are straight!"). First it's that, next they'll start it with the customers ("I'm sorry, sir, but we do NOT under any circumstances, or for any reason, accept returns from, or refund money to, straight people! Only gays and lesbians get their money back! Also no exchanges, coupons, or advertised sale prices for straights! Only gays and lesbians get those!") If THAT ever happens, I will quit doing business with them altogether and start actively boycotting them!

In short, I believe Wal-Mart is BAD for America's economy.

okay, so really? I get emails daily about why not to shop at Walmart, usually from my more liberal of friends......


Reasons I have heard not to shop at Walmart

they don't pay enough
they put the little man out of business
they keep the poor people poor by making them buy stuff cheap
I don't like the way they look at me at 4am
they drive big trucks and use oil and stuff
they have that wall with the soldiers on it like they are heros or something


yeah, yeah, I have heard it all.......or so I thought.

Today I get a forwarded email with this link (http://www.afa.net/Petitions/IssueDetail.asp?id=220) in it.

Apparently now I am supposed to quit shopping there because of their "gay people agenda" :rolleyes:

They found like 2K gay things for sale......I looked up Christian and found about 60K things for sale....I think Walmart has a Christian agenda! LOL I emailed this to them and they said "it's not about what they sell, it's about how they treat gay people" to which I replied "poorly? like they treat everyone else? that sucks, you are right, if they don't start treating the gays nice I am not shopping there"

I think I may have gotten myself kicked out of the homeschool group with that.....

anywho, what do you think? (about anything in the above post)

questions:

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?
Yeah. Business listen to profit.

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?
Well, Walmart is the Evil Empire. I boycott it just on that principal. Well, that and cuz I don't need to use it.

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'? Yeah, profits. Other than that, no, of course not. How absurd.

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice? Yeah, so long as their lifestyle choice isn't hurting others. And sometimes even then.

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?YES! Yes yes yes. A million times yes.

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?
I prefer to be the voice of silliness and insanity. But when duty calls, I am occasionally a voice of reason, and yes i hate it.

The reason I don't shop at Walmart:

Every store they try to build ultimately abandoned, before they buy the land due to mass protests.

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?

I reserve the right to boycott anything for any reson I choose. I think that a boycott is okay in any situation, Its not always smart, but you have no obligation to give someone your business.

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?

No.

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?

No.

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?

Yes, unless it represents harm to myself, in which case I will take action to prevent that harm.

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?

Yes.

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?

I dont really get that kind of reputation.;)

Quoted for laziness. These are my answers word for word. :)

I don't show at wal-mart because they sell cheap shit.

That's pretty much it.

I mean, if you look at it on paper, it's not too good either: they pretty much ban unions from forming in their stores (there was a store in canada that tried to unionize, and they closed the store)

They also leech their suppliers dry: first buying so much of their product at good prices so that they come to depend on wal-mart, and then threatening to stop buying (and consequently put the supplier out of business) if the price isn't cut.

they also pay really shitty wages with little to no benefits, ensuring that their employees have so little money that the only place they can afford to shop is: you guessed it: Wal-mart

Walmart is depressing and makes me feel like I need to get a shower, but they sell realllly good bagels..

Earlier this year there was this big push to keep a Super Walmart from being built in my town. It was a dumb ass, long exhausting fight, but the neo-hippies won in the end. Instead of building Super Walmart in my town, they built it across the state line, no less than two miles away from where they were to build originally. What happened you ask? Did the economy of my town implode, creating an economic black hole, where all available money is pulled to the Super Walmart? Nope. Nothing happened. You want to know why? because NO ONE is making ANYONE shop there! People who supported the Super Walmart in my town shopped at the store, those who pushed for it to stay out of town didn't, it's that simple. Now, I agree that Walmart is an evil corporation, they treat their employees like shit (as shitty as the state alows), they sell shit for shit prices, but hey, I'm a college student. I can't afford quality trash. I make an unacceptably small amount of money, so I need to buy shit that that's unacceptably poopy. I can go to some rip-me off local hole in the wall and buy a sock for $7, or I can buy a pack of white t-shirts at Walmart for $2. Big friggin' dillema...or however you spell it.

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?

1. Maybe not quite [i]any[i] but many.
2. Depends on how well organized a boycott it is.
3. No
4. Yes
5. Greatly
6. Sometimes.

1. do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?
2. regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?
3. do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?
4. do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?
5. don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?
6. don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?
1. Yes. If I don't like someone/something/some business then I don't think it is unreasonable to take my money elsewhere. Why should I support someone/something I disagree with.
2. They are free to do as they like. Personally I would feel better if bigots avoided places I shop.
3. No. They like to make money and are filling a niche that will make them more money.
4. I think everyone should be treated with a minimum level of courtsey, respect and civility but I am more curtious and respectful to lifestyle choices I like. If I find someones beliefs intolerale (Racists or severe homophobes for example) I will just avoid them.
5. Yes.
6. Hell yeah.

I never shopped at Walmarts, simply because there weren't any in the countries where I lived. I think they opened two or three shops in Germany now, but I doubt that they'll get far as Aldi, Lidl and other inexpensive shops cover most of the market already.

I do boycott some shops, for various reasons. I don't assume that shops normally have an agenda, they want to make money, not promote political ideas. Some do, like the Body Shop... as I happen to agree with the agenda, like the products and approve of the service, I shop there. ;)

1 In Florida, many elderly retirees aere employed by Wal-Mart.
Wal-marts hourly wages are so lwo, that they hand out government financial aids forms with thier paychecks.

What does that tell us?

That tells us that instead of paying thier employees a living wage, they instead, encourage them to apply for welfare.

In Florida alone, Wal-Mart employees cost the state over 12 million dollars a year in Financial Aid, becuase they cannot earn a living making full time wages.

Wal-mart is notorious for not allowing overtime wages to be paid.
This, is even if the employee has worked overtime hours.

Wal-Mart is also very, very anti-unionization.
They do not, and will not allow them.
In many stores, security cameras were installed, not prevent loss, but to keep tabs on potential forming unions.

Wal-Mart has an emergency team, whos job it is to fly to any Wal-Mart in the country, within hours, to assume control of the store if it is suspected that a Union may have formed.
All employees are then interviewed, and those found to have supported any such unionisation, are terminated, on the spot.

Aside from several pending and past lawsuits against them for racial discrimination, sexual discrimination, that have always plauged them.

It boils down to this for me:

1.Our government, all of it, is being completely manipulated and influenced by powerful lobbyists from industry and corporations to maximize their profits for shareholders, regardless of its impact on the country.
2. Because of #1, the government has ceased to represent the best interest of the people, and instead represents the best interest of economic giants, which despite their best PR, do not care what is best for everyone, rather they only care for the bottom line: profits.
3. Big Box stores sell sweatshop goods made by foreign labor preferentially to US made goods. I support my fellow Americans, when I can find any business' or products run or made by them. (Getting harder to do...)
4. Wal Mart is a big fish in this equation.
5. I am a Constitutional patriot (as opposed to the flag waving, Chinese-made-magnetic-ribbon buying, chest thumping thug type.).
6. I do not shop where traitors (my personal definition) sell. This isn't just about Wal Mart for me. I buy local "Mom & Pop" first, if available, then local "chain". Then regional chain. Then, if I must, National chain with US products. If it's something I MUST have and only another country makes it, and/or a corporation sells it, I might buy it. But for it to get there, it better be a damned neccessity.

Thanks for stealing my post! :p

They found like 2K gay things for sale......I looked up Christian and found about 60K things for sale

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

Good point... what's a "gay thing"? A Cher doll? Calvin Klein underwear?

And what's a christian thing? I can't imagine them selling 60k versions of the bible...

Wow..... I'm going to get blasted for this one!!!

I happen to WORK for Walmart, ironically the third shift, so I'm there at 4AM!

Lots of myths to dispell here... Not everything, but a lot


1 In Florida, many elderly retirees aere employed by Wal-Mart.
Wal-marts hourly wages are so lwo, that they hand out government financial aids forms with thier paychecks.

In Florida alone, Wal-Mart employees cost the state over 12 million dollars a year in Financial Aid, becuase they cannot earn a living making full time wages.

Wal-mart is notorious for not allowing overtime wages to be paid.
This, is even if the employee has worked overtime hours.

Wal-Mart is also very, very anti-unionization.
They do not, and will not allow them.
In many stores, security cameras were installed, not prevent loss, but to keep tabs on potential forming unions.

Wal-Mart has an emergency team, whos job it is to fly to any Wal-Mart in the country, within hours, to assume control of the store if it is suspected that a Union may have formed.
All employees are then interviewed, and those found to have supported any such unionisation, are terminated, on the spot.

Aside from several pending and past lawsuits against them for racial discrimination, sexual discrimination, that have always plauged them.

Low wages.. I'm in a relatively low-ish paying part of the country, and I'm making $8.70 an hour, gonna be going up at least 50 cents/;hour after my 90 days.. McDonalds(huh? They pay well, don't they????) would start at about $7 and some change an hour. My wife told me that, tsomeone who has worked at Mickey-D's before. These days, few families can make a living on one paycheck. Mine can't.

Overtime.. What company likes paying it? They don't. But Walmart, if you work over your hours, WILL pay overtime at overtime wage. Myth dispelled (I know, I did, and they paid it)

No, Walmart doesn't like unions. Their goal is to make working there good enough so that the employees don't have to have a union (I worked out in California with a Union for al library, and after our first pay raises(1000 hours), we would make $8.88/hour... For the San Francisco Bay Area!! Doesn't even cover rent in that area!). See the next quotes area for more info.

Security cameras to prevent possible unionization? I actually got a good laugh out of that one, thanks!! One comment: YEAH BLOODY RIGHT!! Same thing for the 'Emergency Team' to deal with potential unions. Is there any proof of these? I'd like to see it please!!!

As for the lawsuits, yeah, they're there(one recent decided 78 m,illion for the other side, two more out there that I'm aware of). But are you going to hold a handul of people who make bad decisions and say that the whole company is like that? I mean, we're talking over a million people working for Walmart.. There's no racist indoctrination or anything..


I don't show at wal-mart because they sell cheap shit.

That's pretty much it.

I mean, if you look at it on paper, it's not too good either: they pretty much ban unions from forming in their stores (there was a store in canada that tried to unionize, and they closed the store)

They also leech their suppliers dry: first buying so much of their product at good prices so that they come to depend on wal-mart, and then threatening to stop buying (and consequently put the supplier out of business) if the price isn't cut.

they also pay really shitty wages with little to no benefits, ensuring that their employees have so little money that the only place they can afford to shop is: you guessed it: Wal-mart

Okay, I don't think we buy to make them depend on us.. They all have a choice of whether to sell TO Walmart first. A company that makes bad business deals (such as selling exclusively to one other company), is responsible to itself. Hate to say that, but it's true.

All right, as promised, I was going to give more reasons why Walmart strives to out-do unions. bad wages? Yeah, they could be better, but for the area, they're pretty good. But BENEFITS are where things go well. Where to start...

1) Okay... For an Associate and their spouse, you can get health insurance for $38 every two weeks. On the open market, health insurance for any decent coverage would cost for ONE person over a hundred a month. At a farm I worked at, it was $31 a WEEK. I think the Walmart deal is better, oh yeah, and better coverage.

2) Walmart has a stock-purchasing option open to their Associates. Walmart stock does well, and Wlmart will match funds put towards this for up to $1800 a year (if memory serves). So say you put in $5 for stock, so do they. Most hourly companies don't even think to do this.

3) 401k plan, starts day 1. Outside of what YOU put in it, they put in 2% of your earnings on their own.

4) Employee discount card for %10 off. Not too shabby, I dare say so myself.

5) Company paid life insurance. Good to know that if a rogue frozen pizza kills me that they'll send my wife something.($10k)

6) They ACTUALLY CARE!!! My wife is going in tomorrow to see if she needs to hav a hysterectomy(at the age of 27), or if she's got cancer to boot. My bosses actually care about that and are acting as soemwhat of a support group.

Walmart also gives chances to people whom most other companies wouldn't give a second look at.

So yeah... Given my past jobs, I think Walmart is pretty decent..


ps- not everything in Walmart is made in China or other countries like that... We have quite a bit of american made stuff. Even if we didn't, who buys Mattel? You know that Tickle-Me-Elmo that there are fights over? :D Not the USA, I don't think... I could be wrong though, if I am, my apologies.


Now, I'm not saying 'Go Shop At Walmart' or 'Don't Shop At Walmart", I'm just trying to defend against some really major accusations with my first-hand experience!

Wow..... I'm going to get blasted for this one!!!

I happen to WORK for Walmart, ironically the third shift, so I'm there at 4AM!

Lots of myths to dispell here... Not everything, but a lot




Low wages.. I'm in a relatively low-ish paying part of the country, and I'm making $8.70 an hour, gonna be going up at least 50 cents/;hour after my 90 days.. McDonalds(huh? They pay well, don't they????) would start at about $7 and some change an hour. My wife told me that, tsomeone who has worked at Mickey-D's before. These days, few families can make a living on one paycheck. Mine can't.

8.70 an hour huh?

I average between 13-15 an hour.......driving pizzas.
I bet you work way harder than I do.
Does that seem fair to you?


Overtime.. What company likes paying it? They don't. But Walmart, if you work over your hours, WILL pay overtime at overtime wage. Myth dispelled (I know, I did, and they paid it)

No, Walmart doesn't like unions. Their goal is to make working there good enough so that the employees don't have to have a union (I worked out in California with a Union for al library, and after our first pay raises(1000 hours), we would make $8.88/hour... For the San Francisco Bay Area!! Doesn't even cover rent in that area!). See the next quotes area for more info.

Security cameras to prevent possible unionization? I actually got a good laugh out of that one, thanks!! One comment: YEAH BLOODY RIGHT!! Same thing for the 'Emergency Team' to deal with potential unions. Is there any proof of these? I'd like to see it please!!!

As for the lawsuits, yeah, they're there(one recent decided 78 m,illion for the other side, two more out there that I'm aware of). But are you going to hold a handul of people who make bad decisions and say that the whole company is like that? I mean, we're talking over a million people working for Walmart.. There's no racist indoctrination or anything..




http://www.walmartmovie.com/confessions/

I suggest you do a little research into the company that employs you.
A job is a job, I know that as well as anyone, and Im not saying "quit that job, you work for Nazis!", but maybe watch this movie trailer, and then maybe the whole film.

This is just one example of such evidence that explains all about the kind of ruthless tactics Wal-mart uses to become the #1 Corporation in the world.

In the Business world, the nice guy finishes last.
What does that say about them?

I personally don't shop at Wal Mart out of principle...not because of how they treat gays employees, because, seeing as they are "equal opportunity", they treat gays just like they would anyone else...badly.

Out of principle, I don't shop there because of:

- How they treat their employees
- They force outsourcing from companies who want their products sold at their stores
- The fact that they DO push out smaller, locally owned businesses

we don't even have wal mart in Poland.

In Sovjet Russia, Walmart boycotts you.



I couldn't resist....

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?Yes. Those who boycott for bad reasons are free to voice their reasons so I can purposely shop in the places they're boycotting.

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?No.

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?If a store has an agenda, you can usually tell it by what they don't sell as opposed to what they do.

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?Yes and yes.

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?It would be nice to have a reputation as the voice of reason...I don't know that I do, though.

Good point... what's a "gay thing"? A Cher doll? Calvin Klein underwear?

And what's a christian thing? I can't imagine them selling 60k versions of the bible...
I have no idea, I can't get a straight (;)) answer from the people at the link, they say they searched walmart's website and found 2K things relating to homosexuality, so I searched the book section using the search "homosexual" and found 2K books, I searched the book section of the website using the search "Christian" and found nearly 60K

We don't have actual Walmarts over here, but they do own the Asda stores.

My reasons for not shopping there (if I could) are anecdotal.

A friend of mine used to buy his pet food from his local pet store. then Walmart decided to they wanted all the pet food business in town, so they massively undercut the prices at the local pet store. The local pet store went bust, then Walmart hiked their prices to above the prices that the old store used to charge. Then Walmart decided they didn't want to stock the specialist range of pet foods that the pet store stocked. Now my friend has to go to the next town to get his pet food.

Walmart treat their staff like scum.

okay, so really? I get emails daily about why not to shop at Walmart, usually from my more liberal of friends......


Reasons I have heard not to shop at Walmart

they don't pay enough
they put the little man out of business
they keep the poor people poor by making them buy stuff cheap
I don't like the way they look at me at 4am
they drive big trucks and use oil and stuff
they have that wall with the soldiers on it like they are heros or something


yeah, yeah, I have heard it all.......or so I thought.

Today I get a forwarded email with this link (http://www.afa.net/Petitions/IssueDetail.asp?id=220) in it.

Apparently now I am supposed to quit shopping there because of their "gay people agenda" :rolleyes:

They found like 2K gay things for sale......I looked up Christian and found about 60K things for sale....I think Walmart has a Christian agenda! LOL I emailed this to them and they said "it's not about what they sell, it's about how they treat gay people" to which I replied "poorly? like they treat everyone else? that sucks, you are right, if they don't start treating the gays nice I am not shopping there"

I think I may have gotten myself kicked out of the homeschool group with that.....

anywho, what do you think? (about anything in the above post)

questions:

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?

its because the gay population is the minority in the world. of course they're going to have more things for sale for a larger group... its just good marketing if nothing else...

I've worked there and I shop there sometimes. They're ok with me from the capitalist perspective. I've heard about bad treatment of employees or something. I never experienced that.

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?

There's a couple of legit reasons to boycott a store.

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?

They've got pretty bum logic.

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?

Absolutely not, and any store that does have an agenda is screwing itself over by alienating friendly, happy paying customers.

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?

Beyond yes, this is like some word that english hasn't got, like Jawohl x 3.5

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?

YES.

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason

Reason? When the hell have I ever been a voice of reason?

plus, more things are produced for christians than gays, i dont think that its just wal-mart... try that anywhere you look, i'm sure you'll find the same result.

its because the gay population is the minority in the world. of course they're going to have more things for sale for a larger group... its just good marketing if nothing else...
and so my point when debating with them is that just because they sell something doesn't mean they have an "agenda", you know other than making money, which I hear from some people is a bad agenda, but if I ever meet someone who runs a business who's agenda isn't to make money, I think I might just die.

I've worked there and I shop there sometimes. They're ok with me from the capitalist perspective. I've heard about bad treatment of employees or something. I never experienced that.
I shop there too, I can't understand why people who read my OP think I am boycotting them for some reason, I am just saying reasons I have heard about people trying to get me to boycott, but I haven't heard one yet that makes any sense to me. 3 out of 5 people in my city work at Walmart, it almost seems cruel not to shop there.

Apparently now I am supposed to quit shopping there because of their "gay people agenda" :rolleyes:

They found like 2K gay things for sale......I looked up Christian and found about 60K things for sale....I think Walmart has a Christian agenda! LOL I emailed this to them and they said "it's not about what they sell, it's about how they treat gay people" to which I replied "poorly? like they treat everyone else? that sucks, you are right, if they don't start treating the gays nice I am not shopping there"

I think I may have gotten myself kicked out of the homeschool group with that.....

anywho, what do you think? (about anything in the above post)


You rock, and roll all night.

You see how they wet their pants about 1100 'gay' items? I notice these items seem to be books. Did they mention the fact that they currently have more than 600,000 books in stock?

By that measure - are the 'gay' community ESPECIALLY over-represented? We could do the math as a percentage relation to the population, maybe...

Add to that - of course - while they mention a thousand titles of 'gay' related literature... how much of it is 'pro' and how much of it is 'con'? Again - they give insufficient detail. It pisses me off that people PRETEND to be presenting a balanced viewpoint, so they can show how unreasonable the 'other side' is... and then completely fail to give any attention to the balancing of facts.

You rock, and roll all night.

You see how they wet their pants about 1100 'gay' items? I notice these items seem to be books. Did they mention the fact that they currently have more than 600,000 books in stock?

By that measure - are the 'gay' community ESPECIALLY over-represented? We could do the math as a percentage relation to the population, maybe...

Add to that - of course - while they mention a thousand titles of 'gay' related literature... how much of it is 'pro' and how much of it is 'con'? Again - they give insufficient detail. It pisses me off that people PRETEND to be presenting a balanced viewpoint, so they can show how unreasonable the 'other side' is... and then completely fail to give any attention to the balancing of facts.


I think I am going to unsub. to the email group......in my reason I will put "group think"

they decided to ignore my replies for about 12 hours now, they just keep patting eachother on the back for being righteous judges, ignoring the part where I point out that they are not to judge, and you know that no man is righteous.....you know with all my pretty scriptural backing. My point over there is that I don't care whether they boycott or not, but that I don't think it's right to run around with false facts, and blindly follow someone because they slap a "Christian" label on their website.

But hey, according to them Satan's got hold of me. :rolleyes: I mean really why else would I use the brain God gave me, unless it was Satan making me think.

I think I am going to unsub. to the email group......in my reason I will put "group think"

they decided to ignore my replies for about 12 hours now, they just keep patting eachother on the back for being righteous judges, ignoring the part where I point out that they are not to judge, and you know that no man is righteous.....you know with all my pretty scriptural backing. My point over there is that I don't care whether they boycott or not, but that I don't think it's right to run around with false facts, and blindly follow someone because they slap a "Christian" label on their website.

But hey, according to them Satan's got hold of me. :rolleyes: I mean really why else would I use the brain God gave me, unless it was Satan making me think.

I just wish I hadn't seen THAT argument used before. :( (The brain/satan connection, I mean).

Satan has a hold of Smunkee? That's almost comical...

I just wish I hadn't seen THAT argument used before. :( (The brain/satan connection, I mean).

Satan has a hold of Smunkee? That's almost comical...

apparently, didn't you hear? according to them I am uber-liberal too, you know since I think that homosexuals are people deserving human rights.

apparently, didn't you hear? according to them I am uber-liberal too, you know since I think that homosexuals are people deserving human rights.

You are uber-liberal, dahling.

Not only do you have sex, you [/i]like[/i] it...

Typical liberal.

You are uber-liberal, dahling.

Not only do you have sex, you [/i]like[/i] it...

Typical liberal.
yeah, you know I don't smack my kids around either for saying things that I don't agree with.

oh, and............I own a guitar.......and I use it.........to play............rock music :eek:

*runs away*

yeah, you know I don't smack my kids around either for saying things that I don't agree with.

oh, and............I own a guitar.......and I use it.........to play............rock music :eek:

*runs away*

You can't 'run away' from you silly... :D

I hate that whole idea of a mindset you describe... it's right where I live, too. A kind of extremism based on equal parts of the blood-and-guts of the Hebrew scripture, and the 2000 years of 'traditions' that have accumulated since Greek scriptural times...

A mindset that persecutes and mistreats, whilst not seeing the parallel to the behaviour they decry in other cultures.

I just don't get how they reconcile the 'burn the witch' mentality, with a certain carpenter writing in the sand....

You can't 'run away' from you silly... :D

I hate that whole idea of a mindset you describe... it's right where I live, too. A kind of extremism based on equal parts of the blood-and-guts of the Hebrew scripture, and the 2000 years of 'traditions' that have accumulated since Greek scriptural times...

A mindset that persecutes and mistreats, whilst not seeing the parallel to the behaviour they decry in other cultures.

I just don't get how they reconcile the 'burn the witch' mentality, with a certain carpenter writing in the sand....

the thing is, I can use Paul's writings to prove to them that they are going about everything in the really wrong way, the bad way, the legalistic way, the anti-Jesus way, but the group think is so thick over there that they can't even be bothered to read scripture, they just want to blindly follow what they are told by those they see as authority and ignore the reality that Jesus promoted love, not bashing, not gossip, not backbiting, not snide remarks and smear campaigns, but loving your neighbor.

:rolleyes:

I am sure you understand my frustration this morning.

the thing is, I can use Paul's writings to prove to them that they are going about everything in the really wrong way, the bad way, the legalistic way, the anti-Jesus way, but the group think is so thick over there that they can't even be bothered to read scripture, they just want to blindly follow what they are told by those they see as authority and ignore the reality that Jesus promoted love, not bashing, not gossip, not backbiting, not snide remarks and smear campaigns, but loving your neighbor.

:rolleyes:

I am sure you understand my frustration this morning.

Oh, absolutely. I feel the same frustration on an almost daily basis.

But - if I mention it - it's because I'm an evil atheist... not because I'm pointing out that they aren't clinging to the message the text seems to suggest.

Just whack them with Galatians 5, and a 'ciao'.

Oh, absolutely. I feel the same frustration on an almost daily basis.

But - if I mention it - it's because I'm an evil atheist... not because I'm pointing out that they aren't clinging to the message the text seems to suggest.

Just whack them with Galatians 5, and a 'ciao'.

you and I are on the same page, and it should frighten me, but it doesn't, it might scare the heck out of some other people though........

you and I are on the same page, and it should frighten me, but it doesn't, it might scare the heck out of some other people though........

It shouldn't frighten you - because you are arriving at a position of LOGIC, based on scripture.... as am I.

We may 'believe' different things - but the 'logic' should be beyond that.

No?

It shouldn't frighten you - because you are arriving at a position of LOGIC, based on scripture.... as am I.

We may 'believe' different things - but the 'logic' should be beyond that.

No?

true.

Living in a small town, it's hard not to shop at Wal-mart. But if I had a choice I would avoid them because of the way they treat govenment in small areas.

I don't think a business should be able to blackmail government. A small business certainly couldn't blackmail government. I think all businesses should follow the same rules. There shouldn't be special breaks for big business that small business doesn't get. Government should serve the people not one business.

Examples:

Change the zoning of this land from residential to commercial or we'll pull out and take our sales tax with us. (Lee's Summit MO)

Condemn this farm so we can get the land. (Raymore MO)

Change the hiway going past this property or we'll pull out. (Grandview MO)

Don't charge us property tax or we'll move. (In this case the city said no and they did move to the next town, thereby taking half of the sales tax of the city with them) (Belton MO)

I don't know of a town with a Wal-Mart that something similiar hasn't happened.

I don't care for Wal*Mart...but they really don't pay that badly. It's a great place to work when you are young.

I don't like them because they put little stores out of business and the pay that is good for my age isn't good for the people who need a job now that their store closed.

You know what, Smunkee? You're my hero.

There ... I said it.

Well, at least now I have something to assuage my guilt for shopping at Wal-mart.

questions:

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?yes, but my reasons are either
1) high prices
2) Poor Service
3) nothing I would buy.

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?they... about the Treatment of Gays? I can see their logic... but is it effective? no.

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?no.

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?they should be. however everyone has a right to select how they choose to treat people also. A store can choose to be an asshole and treat their customers with distain... and those people can choose to shop somewhere else.

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?not really, some idiotic things are quite humorous. I don't pass them on nor do I respond to them... but I don't mind recieving them. :p

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?not at all. It happens so rarely with me... :(

Thats just pure stupidity, wal-mart's successful and gives me stuff for cheap, get over it bleeding hearts.

Screaming children.

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason? Yes, I refuse to shop at Target because of the things they support and because of the things they refuse to support. If I shop there, what will they do with the profit? A portion of that money will go to support things I believe are sinful, so I am, in a round-about way, supporting those things. Also, I just miss the mom-and-pop stores.

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic? No, I'm glad of the result, but not the means or the thoughts behind the means to be more specific.

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?Possibly. What is more likely is that they don't care whether it is good or not, they want only to make money, which is sinful.

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice? Within reason. I disagree with a man and woman cohabitating but I would give them the respect of attending their wedding because I want to encourage that. But I would not attend the wedding of two men, because I believe it to be sinful. So, while I would respect them and treat them with the same dignity, not all my actions must be equal to everyone.

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things? I hate more that they felt it worth sending to me.

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?
Yes.

get over it bleeding hearts.

There is no more complimentary title.

I think I am going to unsub. to the email group......in my reason I will put "group think"

they decided to ignore my replies for about 12 hours now, they just keep patting eachother on the back for being righteous judges, ignoring the part where I point out that they are not to judge, and you know that no man is righteous.....you know with all my pretty scriptural backing. My point over there is that I don't care whether they boycott or not, but that I don't think it's right to run around with false facts, and blindly follow someone because they slap a "Christian" label on their website.

But hey, according to them Satan's got hold of me. :rolleyes: I mean really why else would I use the brain God gave me, unless it was Satan making me think.*bashes Satan* how dare he hold Smunkee.... that's my job! *Hugs Smunkee* :p

Within reason.


Nothing to do with reason, mon ami.

I disagree with a man and woman cohabitating but I would give them the respect of attending their wedding because I want to encourage that. But I would not attend the wedding of two men, because I believe it to be sinful.


So - gay people getting married are sinful (and thus, you can't attend their wedding)... but cohabiting couples are.... well - that's sinful, too, isn't it?

Also - worth pointing out... anyone who considers themselves even VAGUELY Christian, should approach this kind of matter with two mental images in their heads - A certain rabbi sitting with the tax collectors, and a certain carpenter writing in the sand.


So, while I would respect them and treat them with the same dignity, not all my actions must be equal to everyone.

Really? Can you justify that, scripturally?

I'm willing to pay more for something made in the US, simply because I feel like I'm supporting the US worker. I just buy fewer overall items. Cheaper is not always better when you factor in the social side of things.

What’s so great about the US worker? We’re all human beings.

What’s so great about the US worker? We’re all human beings.
D'accord.

OK, Wal-mart USED to (proly still does) have sweatshops in china where the workers were paid 1/2 a cent an hour. Help any???

OK, Wal-mart USED to (proly still does) have sweatshops in china where the workers were paid 1/2 a cent an hour. Help any???
you sure Wal mart and not K-mart? :confused:

Nothing to do with reason, mon ami.

Of course it has to do with reason. Would you treat Hitler with respect? You should: he's a human being just like you. But reason (the reason of justice) forbids that you give him the same freedoms you would give Mother Theresea (sp?).

So - gay people getting married are sinful (and thus, you can't attend their wedding)... but cohabiting couples are.... well - that's sinful, too, isn't it?

Of course cohabitating is sinful. Which is why I want to encourage their marriage.

Also - worth pointing out... anyone who considers themselves even VAGUELY Christian, should approach this kind of matter with two mental images in their heads - A certain rabbi sitting with the tax collectors, and a certain carpenter writing in the sand.

Taken out of contxet. "You shall know a tree by its fruits" According to you, I should never look at the tree. Then why did Jesus tell me to look?

Really? Can you justify that, scripturally?

The Bible teaches that all life is precious and should be treated with dignity (just look through the first five books). Even animals are to be treated with some amount of respect, though not so much as Man.

As for them not being treated the same, look through the Law again. You see many people being executed. Why? Because God said that their sins required that they not receive the same treatment as everyone else.

EDIT: You know what, thinking a little more about this, if this gets any more off topic, it might be a good idea to start a different thread, just a thought.

OK, Wal-mart USED to (proly still does) have sweatshops in china where the workers were paid 1/2 a cent an hour. Help any??? It shouldn't matter where the worker is, but rather, whether what they earn enables them to enjoy a decent quality of life.

hmmm.......Wal-mart and I, well, we have a love hate relationship.

I Love Wal-Mart because it is very convenient. Instead of having to stop at 3 or 4 different stores I usually only have one stop with Wal-Mart. Very affordable. I Love their car wash too. I go thru with my Bronco on a weekly basis. Does an awesome job.

When I go to Wal-Mart, I usually have a list in hand. Since I usually do all my shopping needs at Wal-Mart, I pretty much know where everything is. I hate to go to Wal-Mart because on average I can't get out of there without spending $200 with that in mind, I do have a cart fully loaded So overall it is worth it.

Love for the convenience of one stop shopping. Hate because I know inside I'll be spending atleast $200. Side note I'm single so I can only imagine if I had a family. :D

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My preference is for radical change - but there are still options within the system. Organizing workers meaningfully in places like China would be a good start; it empowers them directly, making them somewhat independent of the support of others. Keeping such organizations independent from the state and other power centers that might interfere would similarly be a worthy objective.
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, since this is on the first page I didn't feel like reading through everything and then coming back to this, but I read in the NY Times last week sometime that China was actualy forcing Walmart to accept China's national workers union in their Chinese stores as par tof a wider move to try and improve conditions for workers in China, from the article it sounds like alot of US buisnesses were pissed off at this new move. Just thought it was rather interesting that if this is true Walmart employees in China will have union repesentation before the US or, at least as far as I know, any of the other countries they opperate in and since the goverment is supposedly making them accept this in all of their chinese stores they will have to accept this instead of just closing the store that attempts to unionize like they did in Canada, unlese they want to give up selling in China totaly.

Has anyone heard about thier new perscription drug program? Wal-mart is selling drugs for $4. I don't know if that a good or a bad thing.

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, since this is on the first page I didn't feel like reading through everything and then coming back to this, but I read in the NY Times last week sometime that China was actualy forcing Walmart to accept China's national workers union in their Chinese stores as par tof a wider move to try and improve conditions for workers in China, from the article it sounds like alot of US buisnesses were pissed off at this new move. Just thought it was rather interesting that if this is true Walmart employees in China will have union repesentation before the US or, at least as far as I know, any of the other countries they opperate in and since the goverment is supposedly making them accept this in all of their chinese stores they will have to accept this instead of just closing the store that attempts to unionize like they did in Canada, unlese they want to give up selling in China totaly.

I said "meaningful," and I fear that the state-controlled Chinese unions are not "meaningful" at all.

Of course it has to do with reason. Would you treat Hitler with respect? You should: he's a human being just like you. But reason (the reason of justice) forbids that you give him the same freedoms you would give Mother Theresea (sp?).


No. Reason does no such thing, although emotion might. That was my point.


Of course cohabitating is sinful. Which is why I want to encourage their marriage.


Surely, by the same token, you should encourage the 'marriage' of the gay couple, then?

Otherwise, you are a party to compounding their sin.



Taken out of contxet. "You shall know a tree by its fruits" According to you, I should never look at the tree. Then why did Jesus tell me to look?


I don't think he did. I think he said you shouldn't judge until you are free of sin yourself. We both know, you are not free of sin.


As for them not being treated the same, look through the Law again. You see many people being executed. Why? Because God said that their sins required that they not receive the same treatment as everyone else.


Like Jesus? Her was executed. Or do you mean the Levitical law? If so - read Galatians (try chapter 5) for why this is irrelevent to NOW.

You might also need to bear in mind - what God can 'judge' is NOT what YOU can judge. You, as a follower of Christ, are instructed to love everyone - second only to loving God. You are explicitly commanded NOT to treat people differently.

Unless you have a less expensive retail outlet then not shopping at Wal-Mart costs more of your limited money than shopping at Wal-Mart. If a person chooses to spend her money elsewhere then she can buy and have less. This is fine for most people. It may not be if a family has very limited money. Boycotting Wal-Mart is fine if you think it is the right thing to do and wish to be charitable to whichever people think that you should boycott Wally World. But it is like any charitable donation of funds in that it is best left to those who can afford it without suffering for it.

People are going to rethink their stance on Wal-Mart once the zombie apocalypse begins. Guns AND food in the same store? One-stop shop for all your survivalist needs. The only problem is that there are so many n00bs there they'll all probably get turned into zombies.

I said "meaningful," and I fear that the state-controlled Chinese unions are not "meaningful" at all.

Yeah, I know, but supposedly they are trying to change that, at least according to the article, and whatever they are doing it is enough to upset the American Chamber of Commerce who have supposedly been protesting the changes according to the article.

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?

Of course. That's freedom of expression. Just don't get al riled if others don't fall in step behind you.

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?
No.

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?
If by 'agenda' you mean 'an effort to make a profit by stocking items that are likely to be purchased,' then yeah.

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?
Yes

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?
Yes

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?
Yep

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?

The only agenda they have is profit. They will sell whatever people will buy.

The only agenda they have is profit. They will sell whatever people will buy.I'm not entirely certain about that. They only sell edited music, even though there's a market for unedited music. The only reason to not do so (by the profit theory) is if there was a large group of people who wouldn't shop at a place that sells unedited music, which I doubt.

do you think it's okay to boycott a place of business for any reason?

Yes, or even no good reason whatsoever. I have a number of places and brands that I wont have any truck with.

regardless of what you think about this particular reason do you think they have good logic?

Ive never yet seen any successful boycott yet that used real logic rather than half truths, propaganda, opinion dressed as fact and other heartfelt bullshit in order to piss people off at the target of the boycott. This is not very different.

do you think a store that sells something automatically has that 'agenda'?

Every store that sells something has a common agenda. Profit.

do you think all people should be treated with the same respect and dignity even if you don't agree with their lifestyle choice?

Unless and until their lifestyle affects me (negatively or positively) then sure they should all be treated equally by me. Others can treat people without dignity or respect (within the confines of the law) until their behaviour affects or moves me. I dont really have a "should act this way" expectation for other people's interactions with one another..

don't you hate it when people forward you idiotic things?

Meh, as a sometimes idiotic thing myself I havent got room to bitch. Besides I have a delete button.

don't you hate being the sole voice of reason?

Just when I'm almost certain that I'm the lone voice of reason I usually learn the hard way that it was not the entire rest of the world that was wrong this time. So yes I hate being the lone voice of reason.