NationStates Jolt Archive

What is the best dystopian novel in your opinion?

Poll coming.

1984 is probably the most effective and illustrative.

1984 is probably the most effective and illustrative.

TBH, I've not read it, though I've always meant to.

Damn it, I forgot to add Animal Farm to the poll. :(

Animal Farm

Liberty EKB;11853437']Animal Farm

Dystopia-wise, Animal Farm is not that great. Its focus is too narrow.

Dystopia-wise, Animal Farm is not that great. Its focus is too narrow.Ah, but unlike most other dystopian works, it takes the protagonists from near-dystopia to utopia and back again.

Ah, but unlike most other dystopian works, it takes the protagonists from near-dystopia to utopia and back again.

I rather liked 1984...

And hack, I love your avatar.

"Animal Farm" is more an allegoria (?) of stalinism than a dystopia.

Whoever fixed my poll, thanks. :)

Brave New World is most certainly not bleak but ultimately more depressing than 1984, in my opinion. Everything seems fine on the surface but is much more sinister and terrifying when you look underneath. That is why I think it has more impact than 1984 as a dystopian novel.

I prefer a dystopian novel with a bit of Sci-fi thrown in. 1984 used to have that, untill the 80's. Also, the fact that my older brother was born that year takes a little away from the book.

Planet of the Apes. Or the film Soylent Green.

Then again, there is always Atlas Shrugged :D

When you think about it, "Utopia" is actually pretty dystopian in quite a few ways.. And how about "Jennifer Government"?

I picked Animal Farm pretty much because I'm tired of voting for 1984 which, by the way, is the best dystopian novel.

i'd actualy go for somtow sucharitcle's 13th utopia or whatever it was called, something like that, and then there was one by vonnigut, the one with the "ice nine" ending. i know neither of these might be universaly consedered in catigory but to me they both do and were, again to me, better reads then the usual nominees.

in many ways perhaps, the reality we've been living through for the past six years or so in the u.s., feels like a kind of strainger then fiction distopia as well.

ach, it occurs also i should add, and i'm a bit surprised no one has yet, max's own works what little bits he's given away for us to sample, fit well in the genre as i perceive it. a genre (distopian) not really among my favorites.

=^^=
.../\...

The Trial by Franz Kafka. Though all the titles mentioned are good choices.

Planet of the Apes. Or the film Soylent Green.
Soylent Green is based on the book Make Room, Make Room by Harry Harrison. The book's a detective story, ostensibly, but the point is that a lack of birth-control use is leading to too many people and therefore misery for all as the available resources are spread too thinly.

Amusingly, the book takes place around the turn of the millenium when the USA's population hit 300 million people, which actually happened a couple of weeks ago in real life.

Importantly: In the book, Soylent Green is not people. It's soya and lentils, hence the name. Apparently Harry Harrison wasn't very happy with the film (which I've not seen).

As for the poll, Nineteen Eighty-Four is good, but I've not read enough of the others to compare properly.

BNW. While I own the 1984 and F451 I haven't read them yet.

While I've heard of all of them, I've only read 1984 so I have to go with that one (keeping meaning to start Farenheit 541 and A Brave New World, but just not got round to it)

:random note:
i was born in 1984, and that put me off reading it for a few years, no idea why

Ive read about half but think A handmaid's tale is the best. anyone else read it?

I've read 1984, Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451, and Animal Farm, and while they were all good, 1984 was the only one that was genuinely frightening. I do plan to read We, I hear it's better.

And no Anthem or other Randian tripe, Congo? I'm shocked. Or is it that you think it's as bad as everyone else does? :D

I used to watch Animal Farm almost every day when I was a kid, before I was ever aware of Stalin(and as such I never got the allegory)

Brave New World. While 1984 might depict a very terrifying word, it's terror is shallow, when compared to Brave New World, which suffers from a more insidious form of destruction.

Ironically, they are also the two ways to destroy factions, according to James Madison, in Federalist 10 (actually, he says it is to either destroy liberty, or destroy opinon)

Why do people always forget Yevgeny Zamyatin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yevgeny_Zamyatin)'s 'We (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_%28novel%29)' in this kind of polls?

I'm going with Fahrenheit 451, only as the loss of my books is much more horrifying to me and would be the first step to damnnation on a national level.
Of course, the literacy levels in the US seem to state that Fahrenheit 451's videowall (television) inundated society that neither reads nor cares to learn is much closer than any of the rest.

Though 1984's revisionist government seems to wait in the wings in a nation where critical thinking has become a dirty word and people's memories get hideously short so that spin-doctoring and repetition of a lie to make it "true" are the methods of policy.

i like brave new world cause i like some of the ideas in it.

Why do people always forget Yevgeny Zamyatin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yevgeny_Zamyatin)'s 'We (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_%28novel%29)' in this kind of polls?
I have to say that I wasn't aware of it.

One could trot out Checkov's plays (the playwright rather than the Star Trek character that was named after him...)
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/7745/chekhov.htm
"The style of his stories, novels, and plays, emphasizing internal drama, characterization, and mood rather than plot and focusing on the tragicomic aspects of banal events, had great influence."
Checkov was a dreary writer by many accounts and his pieces were often exceedingly depressing.
I'd nominate his collected works, though I'd still vote for Fahrenheit 451.

OOC: I just love this genre. so im going to vote for logan's run cause nobody else did.

and then there was one by vonnigut, the one with the "ice nine" ending. "Cat's Cradle"

Err... IMO that's a horrible list. It excludes We, for starters! That book is the great grand papy of modern distopianism, directly influancing Orwell and Huxley (although Huxley denied it many believe he lied about that). That Neuromancer, Clockwork Orange, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, and other novels are conspicuously absent, while a comic book merits inclusion on a list of novels, is inexcusable.

i'm rubbish at picking 'best' or favourite things. 1984 was incredibly prescient and is therefore a great dystopian novel. brave new world was extremely vivid and also extremely powerful in the sense that it forced you to contemplate your own place in society not just the way society was developing. for shear storytelling though i am tempted to vote for the handmaid's tale. perhaps it is because it is more modern, using more recognisable language and images and such, that i found it the most believable and involving. animal farm's good too and, while obviously it is very insightful and poignant, i find the language and tone to be more akin to a fable than a novel. the oither's i've not read.

In my opinion, it's between Brave New World and Ninteen Eighty Four. Both have massive parrallels in the modern world. We're probably rapidly becoming a hideous mix of the two.

1984 is the penultimate dystopian novel, with a true total state, it's tendrils reach into every corner of life, everywhere.

Planet of the Apes. Or the film Soylent Green.

The novel that Soylent Green was based on has been mentioned (and as was pointed out, much like the works of Thomas Malthus and Paul R. Ehrlich, has notr withstood the test of time).

The novel Planet of the Apes/Monkeys (as I understand, the French title does not distinuguish) is quite diffreent from either film.

Then again, there is always Atlas Shrugged :D

Which may be read as a distopia on more than one level.

When you think about it, "Utopia" is actually pretty dystopian in quite a few ways.. And how about "Jennifer Government"?
The Trial by Franz Kafka. Though all the titles mentioned are good choices.
One could trot out Checkov's plays (the playwright rather than the Star Trek character that was named after him...)
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/7745/chekhov.htm

Checkov was a dreary writer by many accounts and his pieces were often exceedingly depressing.
I'd nominate his collected works, though I'd still vote for Fahrenheit 451.

Good choices.


I've read 1984, Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451, and Animal Farm, and while they were all good, 1984 was the only one that was genuinely frightening. I do plan to read We, I hear it's better.

And no Anthem or other Randian tripe, Congo? I'm shocked. Or is it that you think it's as bad as everyone else does? :D

I liked Anthem...

"Cat's Cradle"

"Nice, Nice, Very Nice..."

Vonnegut has done a lot that might be considered distopian.

1984 is the penultimate dystopian novel, with a true total state, it's tendrils reach into every corner of life, everywhere.

So if 1984's the penultimate (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/penultimate), what's the ultimate?

Liberty EKB;11853437']Animal Farm

Yep. All dystopian novels are equal but some ...

Yep. All dystopian novels are equal but some ...

;)

So if 1984's the penultimate (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/penultimate), what's the ultimate?

The coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

Sheri S Tepper: "The Gate to Women's Country", or her Grass trilogy "Grass/Raising the Stones/Sideshow".

Indeed - "Raising the Stones" just may be the best book in any genre, by any author.

The films "Equilibrium" or any Philip K Dick product: "Blade Runner", "Imposter", "Minority Report" or "Paycheck" for example(s).

From the poll? 451... not even close.

1984 is the penultimate dystopian novel, with a true total state, it's tendrils reach into every corner of life, everywhere.

So if 1984's the penultimate (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/penultimate), what's the ultimate?

The Ultimate Dystopian novel won't be a novel but rather a recounting of the 8 years in power of the current political regime.

The coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

No worries. ;D

Sheri S Tepper: "The Gate to Women's Country", or her Grass trilogy "Grass/Raising the Stones/Sideshow".

Indeed - "Raising the Stones" just may be the best book in any genre, by any author.

The films "Equilibrium" or any Philip K Dick product: "Blade Runner", "Imposter", "Minority Report" or "Paycheck" for example(s).

From the poll? 451... not even close.

:::Beats Grave_n_idle with a volume of the collected works of Philip K. DicK, while mumbling something about androids and sheep...:::

Cthulhu-Mythos]The Ultimate Dystopian novel won't be a novel but rather a recounting of the 8 years in power of the current political regime.

:p Much as I dislike bush & co, they can't hold a candle to other current real life dystopians...

I liked Anthem...Damn you, saying this and making me admit that it wasn't awful. <Shakes fist.>

:::Beats Grave_n_idle with a volume of the collected works of Philip K. DicK, while mumbling something about androids and sheep...:::


I'd already seen the books mentioned. I was just illustrating that the adaptations of his work have been some pretty good 'dystopian' pieces, also.

Indeed... a whole catalogue of well realised dystopian fiction in moving picture format. Oh - and Total Recall.

Cthulhu-Mythos;11854297']The Ultimate Dystopian novel won't be a novel but rather a recounting of the 8 years in power of the current political regime.

There's a difference between suckitude and dystopia.

That Neuromancer, Clockwork Orange, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, and other novels are conspicuously absent, while a comic book merits inclusion on a list of novels, is inexcusable.
That's a bit elitist of you, don't you think? To dismiss V as a 'comic book. Have you ever read it? Or indeed any of Moore's works?
They transcend the boundaries of 'comic books' and can deservedly be called 'graphic novels'.

The novel that Soylent Green was based on has been mentioned (and as was pointed out, much like the works of Thomas Malthus and Paul R. Ehrlich, has notr withstood the test of time).

I wouldn't say Make Room, Make Room hasn't stood the test of time, you just don't have to take it perfectly literally; overpopulation leading to almost everyone living in poverty isn't at all far fetched, you just have to remember that the West are the "few" who have plenty. There are already far more people than can be happily sustained on the resources available, and yet we all keep on breeding.

I wouldn't say Make Room, Make Room hasn't stood the test of time, you just don't have to take it perfectly literally; overpopulation leading to almost everyone living in poverty isn't at all far fetched, you just have to remember that the West are the "few" who have plenty. There are already far more people than can be happily sustained on the resources available, and yet we all keep on breeding.

Nah, the only real environmental threat posed by increasing population is that these people are quite likely to emit more greenhouse gasses, which is undesirable. As it stands, the population is nowhere near the breaking point that "Make Room! Make Room!" predicted. Instead, development has continued apace, both technologically and economically, meaning that the impact scarcity has is being rapidly negated. In most parts of the world people are living better, longer, healthier lives than they ever have before. That development has been uneven is very little surprise. The pro-Soviet policies of many nations in the developing world followed wrecked their economic growth, and only now in the years since the collapse of the Soviet system has economic growth had a chance to begin again.

Since I'm a bookworm Farenheit 451 scared me the most...

Anyone read Metropolis by Thea Von Harbou?
The movie (1928) by Fritz Lang is quite cool too...

While Alan Moore's V for Vendetta is certainly amongst my favourite works of fiction, I'd debate its status as a dystopian novel...

I'll just say 1984, be clichéd, and be done with it.

I've read 1984, Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451, and Animal Farm, and while they were all good, 1984 was the only one that was genuinely frightening. I do plan to read We, I hear it's better.

And no Anthem or other Randian tripe, Congo? I'm shocked. Or is it that you think it's as bad as everyone else does? :D

Actually, I got all my choices from [[Category: Dystopian novels]] on wikipedia. I don't remember Anthem being one of them. :confused:

I rather like 1984 (just got done reading it! :D), however, not voting.

There is my dystopian novel... government spies, speical facilites, crazy rules, and somebody dies at the end. :eek: It's called Think of the Children... however, I'm not past chapter 2. :(

So if 1984's the penultimate (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/penultimate), what's the ultimate?

1984. It's also the antepenultimate.

I'm going to stray outside the parameters of the question here, and respond with

Deus Ex, which is most certainly NOT a book.

For those who don't know, Deus Ex was a relatively unknown videogame back in 2000. It had, and still does, one of the most immersive, realistic and even depressing atmospheres I have ever seen. One of the most prominent features of the game was it's amazing open-endedness, which allowed for multiple endings. I recommend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex

Nineteen Eighty-Four is the best, but Fahrenheit 451 is a close second in my opinion.

Reading that thread about Brave New World also makes me want to read that, and I have thought about reading A Clockwork Orange. (Though that is more of a horror book than a dystopian society one)

Animal Farm is the best on the poll that I've read.

Id go with 1984 because it becomes closer to the truth the more time passes. although further from 1984 itself.

1984 will get my vote, but I'm going to give a big honorary mention to Lois Lowry's The Giver. It has a subtle approach to revealing dystopia that I find rather appealing.

Actually, shred that, I'm going to go against the flow and put 1984 in the honorary mention slot.

As a student that's doing a graduation paper on that exact subject...

The best representative of a true dystopia would be 1984. The reasons are that it has the most dystopian elements among any dystopian novel: Deliberate scarcity of resources, permanent war, all-prevasive state, and a state that's truly EVIL, and admits so to itself, a state that alters history as it sees fit and TOUTS it as a policy ("doublethink is good") among all the other elements that mark the dystopian genre. Orwell managed to create the paragon of a state gone wrong, of a truly dystopian state - a state in which people are used for power, by power and with power instead of the other way around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystopia

However, the "best" book is debatable - I myself like 1984 and the Handmaid's Tale. I'd say that Orwell's level of detail and ability to describe a world are great traits, but there are other equally valid ways to make a point - assuming we're talking about good authors here. Literary quality "level" is only distinguishable between, say, George Orwell and Ann Coulter, not between George Orwell and, say, Lord Byron.

Further, the dystopia that's the most frightening to live in... is also debatable! Simply because one's view of what is or not dystopian or bearable depends on ideology. Most people (even then, not all) would agree that 1984 is bad, but, among those, many would argue that Gilead from the Handmaid's Tale is worse, or that Brave New World is worse, etc. A dystopia is a state in which one would fear to live in. So, if a good measure would be "which state do you fear to live in the most", it'd vary among people - however, in this one case, 1984 is still at a majority, if not an absolute majority.

Anthem is hurt in my opinion, by virtue of the fact that it's not written by someone who thinks that their ideology could go down the road toward totalitarianism and evil. Orwell and Huxley were both lefty types, and what makes their stuff so potent is that it's about their own ideology being perverted straight to hell.

However, the "best" book is debatable - I myself like 1984 and the Handmaid's Tale. I'd say that Orwell's level of detail and ability to describe a world are great traits, but there are other equally valid ways to make a point - assuming we're talking about good authors here. Literary quality "level" is only distinguishable between, say, George Orwell and Ann Coulter, not between George Orwell and, say, Lord Byron.

Further, the dystopia that's the most frightening to live in... is also debatable! Simply because one's view of what is or not dystopian or bearable depends on ideology. Most people (even then, not all) would agree that 1984 is bad, but, among those, many would argue that Gilead from the Handmaid's Tale is worse, or that Brave New World is worse, etc. A dystopia is a state in which one would fear to live in. So, if a good measure would be "which state do you fear to live in the most", it'd vary among people - however, in this one case, 1984 is still at a majority, if not an absolute majority.

On the same note, I think Handmaid's Tale is also hurt by the fact that it really just seems to be someone from the opposite side of the argument just hacking away at their opponents and saying "OMGLOLZORZ!!!!!!111!!!!![Liberals/Conservatives] /4 t3H Ebeel!!!!!111!!!!!11!!!!shift!!!!!!!!"

Anthem is hurt in my opinion, by virtue of the fact that it's not written by someone who thinks that their ideology could go down the road toward totalitarianism and evil. Orwell and Huxley were both lefty types, and what makes their stuff so potent is that it's about their own ideology being perverted straight to hell.

Actually, Orwell was pretty disenchanted with both right AND left ideologies by the time he wrote 1984. He was pretty much disenchanted with life in general, really, as he had tuberculosis at the time, but his disenchantment at the left came before that.

Actually, Orwell was pretty disenchanted with both right AND left ideologies by the time he wrote 1984. He was pretty much disenchanted with life in general, really, as he had tuberculosis at the time, but his disenchantment at the left came before that.

He was decidedly democratic socialist, though, and he was primarily disenchanted with the Soviet system.

On the same note, I think Handmaid's Tale is also hurt by the fact that it really just seems to be someone from the opposite side of the argument just hacking away at their opponents and saying "OMGLOLZORZ!!!!!!111!!!!![Liberals/Conservatives] /4 t3H Ebeel!!!!!111!!!!!11!!!!shift!!!!!!!!"

Actually, Margaret Atwood was expressing her displeasure at the fact that the feminists were uniting themselves with ultraconservative movements because they both disliked porn. And she's not "just hacking away at opponents" - even because some people (I can think of Jerry Falwell here) would see Gilead as a state to be DESIRED.

He was decidedly democratic socialist, though, and he was primarily disenchanted with the Soviet system.

He disliked both the soviet system and the capitalist one, but the state of 1984 was CONCEIVABLY POSSIBLE at the time, as far as he was concerned. That is the main point, he wrote a "warning" novel more than anything. One is left to wonder how things would have progressed in the world had he not written it, perhaps...? History isn't made by "if"s, but could it be that, without that "warning", something not unlike the 1984 world would exist nowadays? A frightening prospect...

Animal Farm was my favorite

i never read V for Vendetta but the movie would be my number 2
i though the scene with Valerie was very moving.

Animal Farm was my favorite

i never read V for Vendetta but the movie would be my number 2
i though the scene with Valerie was very moving.

V for Vendetta is good, but lacks the truly despairing thing present in other dystopias.

Everyone wants to see the underdog win, and everyone wants to see good triumph.

In most dystopias, neither happens. ;)

Animal Farm was my favorite

i never read V for Vendetta but the movie would be my number 2
i though the scene with Valerie was very moving.

In a real dystopia, the bomb would have been defused by the state, and all of the masks would have been stopped when the were in transit in the mail.

In a real dystopia, the bomb would have been defused by the state, and all of the masks would have been stopped when the were in transit in the mail.

More or less. A dystopia can end and still be a dystopia (The Handmaid's Tail has Gilead end, as seen in the historical notes).

However, the overall EFFECT does get bigger if the state wins, and, in MOST dystopias, that's what happens.

He disliked both the soviet system and the capitalist one, but the state of 1984 was CONCEIVABLY POSSIBLE at the time, as far as he was concerned. Yes, but Andaluciae's point is that the Soviet System isn't the only possible left-wing system, you can still be left-wing and not support it, however if you're left-wing it's best to be aware of what can potentially happen if your own ideology gets warped.

That's a bit elitist of you, don't you think? To dismiss V as a 'comic book. Have you ever read it? Or indeed any of Moore's works?
They transcend the boundaries of 'comic books' and can deservedly be called 'graphic novels'.

While I haven't read that particular one, I quite like a number of his comics.

However, the topic at hand is novels - ie extended fictional prose narraritives. Note that the list included no other comics.

(And while I agree that comic book is indeed an inadequate term, I find graphic novel equally inadequate.)

I wouldn't say Make Room, Make Room hasn't stood the test of time, you just don't have to take it perfectly literally; overpopulation leading to almost everyone living in poverty isn't at all far fetched, you just have to remember that the West are the "few" who have plenty. There are already far more people than can be happily sustained on the resources available, and yet we all keep on breeding.

As it stands, the population is nowhere near the breaking point that "Make Room! Make Room!" predicted.

Actually the US population in the book is 300 million. The US just hit that exact number recently.

The main reason I find that Make Room! Make Room!, and other similar overpopulation dystopias to not have withstood the test of time is that exact reason - they always seem to far underestimate the carrying capacity.

The main reason I find that Make Room! Make Room!, and other similar overpopulation dystopias to not have withstood the test of time is that exact reason - they always seem to far underestimate the carrying capacity.

That's not the point, though... that's just the details... the 'numbers'. It is the concept that is important, not the math.

The Silmarillion.

The Silmarillion.
I don't think the book quite fits the definition of a dystopia. It's more of an epic tragedy.

My favourite was The Forever War, although it has a happy end.

I don't think the book quite fits the definition of a dystopia. It's more of an epic tragedy.

I daresay you are right, but I can't help it - whenever I see best novel/ Favourite book/ prefered hardcopy, the words 'The Silmarillion' appear on their own accord. It's like some kind of Toulkien-Tourette-Syndrome.

And it might be argued that the Silmarillion starts off with a perfect society which declines into warring fiefdoms, where treachery and double-crossings are standard MOs, where the fate of the individual is destined by the lust for power of its rulers, where everything beautiful is either deadly or marred soon after creation etc. etc.

But I guess my grasp on the concept of Dystopia is rather flimsy, and right now I can't be arsed to look it up.

Yevgeny Zamyatin's We would be my choice. It predates all of the others, and to my mind is the strongest of all the tales (Orwell is bleaker, agreed, but often fails to engage on some levels).

V for Vendetta is not a Dystopia. It's about a revolution, not a dystopic society.

V for Vendetta is not a Dystopia. It's about a revolution, not a dystopic society.

A revolution against....

A revolution against....

...a simple fascist dictatorship. One which is (in the movie) significantly less involved in individual lives than many real life ones (they're a little harder in the GN, I must admit, but no worse than say, East Germany).

My favourite was The Forever War, although it has a happy end.

Several of the novels mentioned have "happy" and even happy endings.

V for Vendetta is not a Dystopia. It's about a revolution, not a dystopic society.

As is Anthem, and to some degree, We, 1984, and several others mentioned.

In fact, I'd venture to say that most pre-cyberpunk dystopianism involved a revolt of some sort...

1984. The Handmaid's Tale was also good.

Several of the novels mentioned have "happy" and even happy endings.



As is Anthem, and to some degree, We, 1984, and several others mentioned.

In fact, I'd venture to say that most pre-cyberpunk dystopianism involved a revolt of some sort...

You have a point, but in most of those pieces (and certainly in We, one of the reasons I so like it) the revolt is a juxtapositive device to show the function and basic failure of the dystopia, which is often seen at first to be either a positive or at least necessary force. By showing that the dystopia is ultimately a failure on the human level, the revolt/rebellion (whether by an individual or an organised group) serves primarily to remove the mask and show the real evil behind the facade.

In V for Vendetta (and in Heinlein's Revolt in 2100) the evil is shown full on and without apology from the first scene. The exploration is not of the failed utopia/dystopia, but of the actions needed to destroy it. In V for Vendetta's case Moore uses the literary short-cut of making the villainous government fascist in nature, an evil we already know well, so that he can move on to the meat of the novel - the fashioning of V's weapon and successor, and his eventual victory in death.

You have a point, but in most of those pieces (and certainly in We, one of the reasons I so like it) the revolt is a juxtapositive device to show the function and basic failure of the dystopia, which is often seen at first to be either a positive or at least necessary force. By showing that the dystopia is ultimately a failure on the human level, the revolt/rebellion (whether by an individual or an organised group) serves primarily to remove the mask and show the real evil behind the facade.

In V for Vendetta (and in Heinlein's Revolt in 2100) the evil is shown full on and without apology from the first scene. The exploration is not of the failed utopia/dystopia, but of the actions needed to destroy it. In V for Vendetta's case Moore uses the literary short-cut of making the villainous government fascist in nature, an evil we already know well, so that he can move on to the meat of the novel - the fashioning of V's weapon and successor, and his eventual victory in death.

Depends on definition. One can argue, though they'd fail in my opinion, that "V" takes place in a dystopian COUNTRY but isn't a dystopian work, whereas 1984 is an actual dystopian WORK. See my point?

Anthem!

Depends on definition. One can argue, though they'd fail in my opinion, that "V" takes place in a dystopian COUNTRY but isn't a dystopian work, whereas 1984 is an actual dystopian WORK. See my point?

That's pretty much dead on. I can definitely agree with that.

...a simple fascist dictatorship. One which is (in the movie) significantly less involved in individual lives than many real life ones (they're a little harder in the GN, I must admit, but no worse than say, East Germany).

An invasive, controlling fascist dictatorship IS dystopian... even if it is close to real-life.

It doesn't have to be genocide, thoughtcrime, and armageddon to be dystopian.

An invasive, controlling fascist dictatorship IS dystopian... even if it is close to real-life.

It doesn't have to be genocide, thoughtcrime, and armageddon to be dystopian.

Yes, that's true. I just don't think it's what the book's about.

Yes, that's true. I just don't think it's what the book's about.

It isn't. But, it is still 'dystopian', even if it is 'about' the revolution part of the story arc.

It isn't. But, it is still 'dystopian', even if it is 'about' the revolution part of the story arc.

I suppose that's true. I just like to make a distinction, as Heikoku put it,

""V" takes place in a dystopian COUNTRY but isn't a dystopian work, whereas 1984 is an actual dystopian WORK".

I suppose that's true. I just like to make a distinction, as Heikoku put it,

""V" takes place in a dystopian COUNTRY but isn't a dystopian work, whereas 1984 is an actual dystopian WORK".

I don't think that's a real distinction - it's like trying to insist their is a genre of 'movies with happy endings'.

Dystopian literature is literature that examines dystopia, or uses dystopia as the framework on which the narrative hangs.

I don't think that's a real distinction - it's like trying to insist their is a genre of 'movies with happy endings'.

Dystopian literature is literature that examines dystopia, or uses dystopia as the framework on which the narrative hangs.

The thing is, many of the Dystopian novels come under the heading of "future warnings". We, 1984, Brave New World - all of these are warnings, if you will, of things that could all so easily come to pass.

V for Vendetta (and don't get me wrong, I love the novel and quite enjoyed the movie) is more of a "What to do if..." sort of story.

I see a distinction.

The thing is, many of the Dystopian novels come under the heading of "future warnings". We, 1984, Brave New World - all of these are warnings, if you will, of things that could all so easily come to pass.

V for Vendetta (and don't get me wrong, I love the novel and quite enjoyed the movie) is more of a "What to do if..." sort of story.

I see a distinction.

And the scenario of 'V' is a projection of the road being travelled at that time. The fact that George Bush has turned the US into the realisation of 'Vendetta', doesn't make the dystopia of the original story any less dystopian... it just makes the warning more-than-usually timely.

What is the best dystopian novel in your opinion?

This perfect day by Ira Levin

And the scenario of 'V' is a projection of the road being travelled at that time. The fact that George Bush has turned the US into the realisation of 'Vendetta', doesn't make the dystopia of the original story any less dystopian... it just makes the warning more-than-usually timely.

That's a little unfair to the son of a Bush, even if only a little. I guess I just see a difference in emphasis; it's not just a matter of happy/sad endings, either, I should note.
I mean, to take it to the logical conclusion, Star Wars would be a dystopian fantasy, because of the Galactic Empire, but I don't think anyone would seriously argue that. It's an adventure story; V is a novel of revolution; 1984 is a Dystopian novel.