NationStates Jolt Archive

How well does your state-run universal health-care work? Is the quality better or worse than private hospitals? How quick on average can a patient get treatment? I have always been curious if such a system works better.

How well does your state-run universal health-care work? Is the quality better or worse than private hospitals? How quick on average can a patient get treatment? I have always been curious if such a system works better.
All my stays have been in public hospitals. The quality of care was good to excellent. There really is no "private" hospitals in Canada, but there is a few "private" medical clinics.

Access to "free" healthcare is provided for all Canadians.

Excellent. I had to wait a couple months for my gallbladder surgery, but it was elective to begin with, and for a relatively minor condition.

I've never felt like I was in poor hands in the hospital, and I've never been frustrated with the medical system. I can honestly say all my memories of hospital stays have been fond ones.. Kind staff, clean and well-kept surroundings, and knowledgable doctors. The only complaint I had was not being able to figure out a hospital gown the first time I was asked to put it on (I was confused because I couldn't find the pants.. Which hospital gowns do not have).

I mean, it's not perfect. I'm sure people have had bad experiences. But considering that it's part of my taxes (and therefore scaled according to my wages) and that I know I'll never go broke if I get sick, I'm very happy with it. I talk to my boyfriend who lives in the states all the time, and it really upsets me that he may be clinically depressed, but unable to get treatment or medication because his family is broke. :(

How well does your state-run universal health-care work? Is the quality better or worse than private hospitals? How quick on average can a patient get treatment? I have always been curious if such a system works better.

Here in Italy state-run and private, but state-funded hospitals are usually better than altogether private clinics. Southern Italy is a different thing, however, due to a lot of mafia control on any kind of business and public sector.

How well does your state-run universal health-care work? Is the quality better or worse than private hospitals? How quick on average can a patient get treatment? I have always been curious if such a system works better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_%28Canada%29

Here in the UK we have something similar, the NHS. Which, I don't think anyone can deny, is going through a tricky phase with mass cuts and privatisation, thanks to Blair's "market reforms" fetish, and the ensuing bureaucracy and pen-pushers that is the result of it.

But, at the end of the day, if you get a broken leg, you can get it fixed. It's not perfect, but that's the fault of the government(s) and not the NHS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_%28Canada%29

Here in the UK we have something similar, the NHS. Which, I don't think anyone can deny, is going through a tricky phase with mass cuts and privatisation, thanks to Blair's "market reforms" fetish, and the ensuing bureaucracy and pen-pushers that is the result of it.

But, at the end of the day, if you get a broken leg, you can get it fixed. It's not perfect, but that's the fault of the government(s) and not the NHS.
I don't think there are a lot of people over here who'd get rid of the NHS in favour of an American-style system. IMO it's the best thing provided by our government.

I don't think there are a lot of people over here who'd get rid of the NHS in favour of an American-style system. IMO it's the best thing provided by our government.

I know. Primarily because I live "over here" too. :D

I just fancied taking a pot-shot at Blair for being a right-wing tard who is undoing what his own party rightly built up for the British people.

I know. Primarily because I live "over here" too. :D

I just fancied taking a pot-shot at Blair for being a right-wing tard who is undoing what his own party rightly built up for the British people.

Indeed, I was emphasising your point :)

I didn't have cause to use the NHS much before 1997, but I think it was pretty similar, really. Labour have spent a fortune on it though, so maybe you'd expect some noticable improvement... Don't get me wrong, I hate Blair at least as much as the next man, but you can't accuse him of making the NHS worse. Wasting money on not making a difference, perhaps, but it's not got worse so far as I can tell.

National Healthcare systems tend to be cheaper to run than private ones. If healthcare is free then people are more likely to go to the doctor if they think they might be going down with a serious illness so the disease can be caught quickly before it has a chance to spread. In private systems people are more reluctant to go to the doctor on a hunch if it'll cost them a lot of money so they tend to wait until they're sure that they're ill before they go. This makes their treatment more expensive as the illness has more time to spread/develop complications.

I know. Primarily because I live "over here" too. :D

I just fancied taking a pot-shot at Blair for being a right-wing tard who is undoing what his own party rightly built up for the British people.

I'm with you there New Burmesia.....Blair has done really well in trying to completely ruin our national pride - the NHS.

Nevertheless, regardless of what happens to you - if you have a heart attack, or anyhting, they don't check your insurance before treating you, (like i've seen in ER :) ) my mum was really ill for a long time and received first class treatment.

If we get rid of blair, then hopefully we can get the NHS back up to standards.

Well it is true that the hospitals are always clean, nurses friendly and such but there are some problems, this might just be in Ontario and Quebec where I have lived but it is impossible to find a family doctor and while that doesn't matter too much because of the clinics the wait times in those are horrible. They open at 8 so you have to show up at least an hour earlier to get in line and then you still wait a good hour, and if you actually show up at 8 when they open they are usually full for the day and you do not get seen.

Hospitals are pretty bad also, my mom fell and broke her hip and had to wait 7 hours in the emergency room, and there were people there who had been waiting more than 12 hours. Alot of our doctors and nurses are going over to the states where the pay is better.

I personaly would like to see some private health care companies that way the people who can afford it woudl use it and maybe clear up the waiting times a bit for people like me who can't afford to pay 6,000 dollars for an x-ray.

Sorry if I rambled a bit, just came off the night shift and I am not very awake at this point.

Depends really on how well such a system is run. Here in Queensland waiting lists have totally exploded, people are literally dying waiting for life-saving operations.

On the other hand in Germany, doctors are forced to work 60 or 70 hour weeks and drowned in paperwork. So they go on strike and protest. Or just leave the country and work in the UK.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1934995,00.html?maca=en
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,399537,00.html
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20310179-2702,00.html

Depends really on how well such a system is run. Here in Queensland waiting lists have totally exploded, people are literally dying waiting for life-saving operations.

On the other hand in Germany, doctors are forced to work 60 or 70 hour weeks and drowned in paperwork. So they go on strike and protest. Or just leave the country and work in the UK.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1934995,00.html?maca=en
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,399537,00.html
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20310179-2702,00.html

And then the British doctors go and work in Germany or Australia, because they can't find work.

And then the British doctors go and work in Germany or Australia, because they can't find work.
The free market at work!

*dances*

The free market at work!

*dances*

*hides*

Well it is true that the hospitals are always clean, nurses friendly and such but there are some problems, this might just be in Ontario and Quebec where I have lived but it is impossible to find a family doctor and while that doesn't matter too much because of the clinics the wait times in those are horrible. They open at 8 so you have to show up at least an hour earlier to get in line and then you still wait a good hour, and if you actually show up at 8 when they open they are usually full for the day and you do not get seen.
I have been to several clinics, mostly for my son, but we rarely had to wait an hour and it didn't matter what time we arrived. They are not scheduled and are on a first come first served basis unless more severe cases (emergency) come in, then you would be bumped

Hospitals are pretty bad also, my mom fell and broke her hip and had to wait 7 hours in the emergency room, and there were people there who had been waiting more than 12 hours. Alot of our doctors and nurses are going over to the states where the pay is better.
My mother broke her hip when she was 80. and they nursed her back to health and they had her up and walking around in no time. She lived to be 90.

I personaly would like to see some private health care companies that way the people who can afford it woudl use it and maybe clear up the waiting times a bit for people like me who can't afford to pay 6,000 dollars for an x-ray.
6,000 bucks for an x-ray? Not in Canada. Nyet on private health care.

I personaly would like to see some private health care companies that way the people who can afford it woudl use it and maybe clear up the waiting times a bit for people like me who can't afford to pay 6,000 dollars for an x-ray.

The big risk with that is that the better doctors would largely be attracted to the private sector by better pay, leaving the public system as a second-class system. On the other hand, it may assist in retaining some of the doctors who would otherwise go to the U.S. to make more money.

How well does your state-run universal health-care work? Is the quality better or worse than private hospitals? How quick on average can a patient get treatment? I have always been curious if such a system works better.
I have found that, at least being in a city, that access is pretty good. I have been able to get an appointment with my doctor for the next day if I really need it.

I need frequent check ups and not having to pay for it makes it fine for me to go and ensure that my health is fair while not having to pay just to talk to my specialist.

In any system there is room for improvement. But, I like it; it's good for people who have persistant health issues (ones not resulting from bad eating habits and vices).

National Healthcare systems tend to be cheaper to run than private ones. If healthcare is free then people are more likely to go to the doctor if they think they might be going down with a serious illness so the disease can be caught quickly before it has a chance to spread. In private systems people are more reluctant to go to the doctor on a hunch if it'll cost them a lot of money so they tend to wait until they're sure that they're ill before they go. This makes their treatment more expensive as the illness has more time to spread/develop complications.

The system here LOVES them to wait as well. That chain that was recently purchased. One of their bitches was the fact because the bastard doctors were actually going for cheap alternatives rather then the expensive procedures! :rolleyes:

Our reps in France say they have an NHS and mentioned that the French tend to be rather hypochondriac about things. It hasn't broken them financially.

Excellent. I had to wait a couple months for my gallbladder surgery, but it was elective to begin with, and for a relatively minor condition.

I've never felt like I was in poor hands in the hospital, and I've never been frustrated with the medical system. I can honestly say all my memories of hospital stays have been fond ones.. Kind staff, clean and well-kept surroundings, and knowledgable doctors. The only complaint I had was not being able to figure out a hospital gown the first time I was asked to put it on (I was confused because I couldn't find the pants.. Which hospital gowns do not have).

I mean, it's not perfect. I'm sure people have had bad experiences. But considering that it's part of my taxes (and therefore scaled according to my wages) and that I know I'll never go broke if I get sick, I'm very happy with it. I talk to my boyfriend who lives in the states all the time, and it really upsets me that he may be clinically depressed, but unable to get treatment or medication because his family is broke. :(

Granted the USA may not have Universal Healthcare, however, it is a law that hospitals can NOT turn away anybody in need of medical attention. Meaning, the hospitals must see to your problems. Why do you think that the ER is filled with illegals. These illegals are always attended to and that's because of the laws that mandate the hospitals to see you.

I for one, do have Health Insurance.

Granted the USA may not have Universal Healthcare, however, it is a law that hospitals can NOT turn away anybody in need of medical attention. Meaning, the hospitals must see to your problems. Why do you think that the ER is filled with illegals. These illegals are always attended to and that's because of the laws that mandate the hospitals to see you.

I for one, do have Health Insurance.

You make it sound like it's a bad thing.

You make it sound like it's a bad thing.

Didn't mean to make it sound like a bad thing just informing others not aware that the US hospitals are mandated to see you by law whether or not you have any money or health insurance. So actually, we do have a universal system in place. Although, the hospitals probably don't like it but it is law.

How well does your state-run universal health-care work? Is the quality better or worse than private hospitals? How quick on average can a patient get treatment? I have always been curious if such a system works better.
First of all, we don't really have private hospitals. Private healthcare isn't illegal, but in most provinces private health insurance is, so there's almost no way private hospitals could operate.

Since the srvices are all free to all Canadians, they're ratoned through waiting lists. Most people can get in to see a GP pretty quickly (within a couple of weeks), but seeing a specialist (whom you can't see without a referral from a GP) can sometimes take months. There are similar waits for diagnostic tests and surgical procedures.

Incidentally, I'm taking about waits for non-emergent cases. Emergencies always get pushed to the front of the line, and elective procedures take much, much longer.

There have been several attempts to study how long those waits are over the past 10 years or so (before that the government typically denied the existence of waiting lists). Here's a popular such study:

http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=863

The Fraser Institute is certainly on the free market side of the economic spectrum, but their index appears to have been compiled by surveying the doctors themselves.

6,000 bucks for an x-ray? Not in Canada. Nyet on private health care.
But if you need an MRI or a PET Scan you have to wait for months.

But if you need an MRI or a PET Scan you have to wait for months.

I've waited at the most a few weeks for an MRI. I think it also depends on location.

But if you need an MRI or a PET Scan you have to wait for months.
Also depends on the seriousness of the situation? I still think that by and large our health care system is preferable to the one in the US.

Didn't mean to make it sound like a bad thing just informing others not aware that the US hospitals are mandated to see you by law whether or not you have any money or health insurance. So actually, we do have a universal system in place. Although, the hospitals probably don't like it but it is law.

It is not universal healthcare in the sense that it is paid for/free. Copays count.

There are benefits to both systems. On one hand, a public system allows for all to get the help they need, without having to worry about expenses. But, it does make wait times nigh infinity for even the tiniest of problems. Private systems do not have this problem, but you have to be able to pay the money necessary.

There has to be a way to combine the best of both worlds. A limited public healthcare supplimented by private healthcare and perhaps some sort of program one could enter into if they needed a life-saving procedure and can't pay for it. Something like that.

Well it is true that the hospitals are always clean, nurses friendly and such but there are some problems, this might just be in Ontario and Quebec where I have lived but it is impossible to find a family doctor and while that doesn't matter too much because of the clinics the wait times in those are horrible. They open at 8 so you have to show up at least an hour earlier to get in line and then you still wait a good hour, and if you actually show up at 8 when they open they are usually full for the day and you do not get seen.
I remember having such problems in Ontario but I've never incountered something like that in Alberta, although I haven't needed to see a doctor, nor do I have one and I've never actually talked to someone about their difficulty finding a doctor, but people here complian some much that if there was a problem like that I'm sure I would've heard about it by now...

Hospitals are pretty bad also, my mom fell and broke her hip and had to wait 7 hours in the emergency room, and there were people there who had been waiting more than 12 hours.
Too bad about your mom, although part of the reason it took that long could be because of how much pain she was in. When I went in with a friends who broke her arm she had a very similar break to the guy in front of us who got service right away when she had to wait longer. This was because she had a much higher pain tolerance and did not appear to be in any pain although it had been borken for over 24 hours. (we were out of town and didn't want to use the hospital out there). And a lot of the reason people will have to wait 12 hours is because of the people who go in at everything and it's better to be safe then sorry but... some people will really go in over nothing and that fucks up everyone elses wait and makes theirs ridiculusly long.
Alot of our doctors and nurses are going over to the states where the pay is better.
Brain drain? Most every industry here has that to an extent.

[/quote]I personaly would like to see some private health care companies that way the people who can afford it woudl use it and maybe clear up the waiting times a bit for people like me who can't afford to pay 6,000 dollars for an x-ray.[/quote]

Problem is then you get too many that will do that and instead you have an underfunded and understaffed hospital for poor people that will be shitty then the one we have now and what about the people who can't afford the care but who need it just as quickly they shouldn't be ignored so a rich guy can get his medical assistance first. Who ever needs help the most should get it first. Plus the rich people can complain nmore effectively when shit gets bad, if the health care is only for the poor you won't have the middle and upper class demanding that it be good or decent so I'd probably suck.

How does it work? Worse than if you were a wealthy American. Better than if you are a poor or middle-classed American. And done with LESS spent per-capita in public money than in the US according to the most recent stats.

In the US, the government spends over $2000 per year per American on funding Medicare, medicaid, and other health costs. Indeed, the US ranks third in the world for spending public money on health and can't put together a universal package.

Canada, by comparison, averages about $1800 per person per year and gives full coverage to all.


Is our system perfect? Nope. There are some tangible downsides due to the lower funding of the program. But I'd take universailty over the real possibility of a disease bankrupting you that most Americans have to worry about. And I'll just keep pushing for better funding to mitigate ongoing issues with our system.

How does it work? Worse than if you were a wealthy American. Better than if you are a poor or middle-classed American. And done with LESS spent per-capita in public money than in the US according to the most recent stats.

In the US, the government spends over $2000 per year per American on funding Medicare, medicaid, and other health costs. Indeed, the US ranks third in the world for spending public money on health and can't put together a universal package.

Canada, by comparison, averages about $1800 per person per year and gives full coverage to all.


Is our system perfect? Nope. There are some tangible downsides due to the lower funding of the program. But I'd take universailty over the real possibility of a disease bankrupting you that most Americans have to worry about. And I'll just keep pushing for better funding to mitigate ongoing issues with our system.
I think you figures are off a tad. The following chart is from 2001, and from what I understand, the US healthcare costs have skyrocketed since then. I am digging for a more up to date chart:

http://www.usmedicine.com/images/kchart1-0502.jpg

I think the state runs system here works pretty well.

My girlfriend's brother had two lung operations done (one on each lung). He got them done very quickly (very little wait time), they cost him nothing & were both successful.

I was at the hospital yesterday with a broken thumb. I was examined, x-rayed, plastered, got some medication & was out of there within the space of a bit over 3 hours. Again, didn't cost me anything.

I think you figures are off a tad. The following chart is from 2001, and from what I understand, the US healthcare costs have skyrocketed since then. I am digging for a more up to date chart:

http://www.usmedicine.com/images/kchart1-0502.jpg

That chart gives total expenditures, not just public. And, as it turns out, my numbers that I had had were dated from 2000. If you go to the OECD (http://www.oecd.org/countrieslist/0,3025,en_33873108_33844430_1_1_1_1_1,00.html) who compile statistics of such things from official sources and drill in you will see that for 2003 (the most recent year available) the PUBLIC money spent on health care per capita is:

Canada: $2098/yr
USA: $2505/yr

So, Americans devote an average of over $400 per year EACH in taxes more than an average Canadian to support a health care system that cannot provide them the same basic universal care as Canada, from which they could still - if they chose - allow people to buy into better services.

I'm sorry, but if you can't even provide the same service when you are paying a 20% premium over what we pay, you're getting screwed somewhere in that system.

I still think that by and large our health care system is preferable to the one in the US.
But regardless of whether ours is better than the US system, ours still has issues. Many European healthcare systems (Iceland, especially) are vastly superior to ours, and we could learn a lot from them.

We could do better.

But regardless of whether ours is better than the US system, ours still has issues. Many European healthcare systems (Iceland, especially) are vastly superior to ours, and we could learn a lot from them.

We could do better.
While I realize that our system is not perfect, I find it difficult to believe that European healthcare is "vastly" superior to ours. Being the doubting Thomas that I am, do you have anything that would validate your claim?

But regardless of whether ours is better than the US system, ours still has issues. Many European healthcare systems (Iceland, especially) are vastly superior to ours, and we could learn a lot from them.

We could do better.

I's just too bad that too many of our politicians think that the US is the model to follow, rather than Europe.

I have been to several clinics, mostly for my son, but we rarely had to wait an hour and it didn't matter what time we arrived. They are not scheduled and are on a first come first served basis unless more severe cases (emergency) come in, then you would be bumped

Then that explained the 14-ambulance queue previously referred to - in part, at least.

In the UK, there are sometimes long waits, but there is NEVER a first-come first-server basis. The more serious cases are always dealt with first. Eg. person having heart attack (A), person with broken leg (B), person with fractured arm (C), person with chest pains (D), get there in that order. Result of who gets treated when would be, in order of first to be treated: A, D, B, C.

Relatively long waiting times, but its free, and people will use it. Though it does have its flaws, I'd say the healthcare system here in Canada is pretty good, considering how I haven't been to the doctor's office in a while... :p

Then that explained the 14-ambulance queue previously referred to - in part, at least.

In the UK, there are sometimes long waits, but there is NEVER a first-come first-server basis. The more serious cases are always dealt with first. Eg. person having heart attack (A), person with broken leg (B), person with fractured arm (C), person with chest pains (D), get there in that order. Result of who gets treated when would be, in order of first to be treated: A, D, B, C.
That is what I said?

a first come first served basis unless more severe cases (emergency) come in, then you would be bumped

I's just too bad that too many of our politicians think that the US is the model to follow, rather than Europe.
I wasn't aware any did. As long as a single-payer persists, our system looks nothing like the US system.
While I realize that our system is not perfect, I find it difficult to believe that European healthcare is "vastly" superior to ours. Being the doubting Thomas that I am, do you have anything that would validate your claim?
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=782

That's a comparison of the OECD countries with universal healthcare.

Depends really on how well such a system is run. Here in Queensland waiting lists have totally exploded, people are literally dying waiting for life-saving operations.

On the other hand in Germany, doctors are forced to work 60 or 70 hour weeks and drowned in paperwork. So they go on strike and protest. Or just leave the country and work in the UK.

Thousands die everywhere in the world waiting for life saving medical care. I don't think its the fault of the state health care. Its the nature of a scarce resource, like organ donations. Here in the US, many thousands die waiting for transplants or for care.

The health care system has been a nightmare for years. There's massive lineups, underpaid doctors and underfunded hospitals.. and now there's a call for two-tiered health care, which would effictively give you a better spot in line because of your financial standing. However, with all these grievances, I still think that universal health care is one of our most proudest accomplishments. The Europeans (and even the Cubans) have far more effective systems, and the Canadian government must act to improve this system, but again, I'm so glad that coming down with a serious illness or sustaining an injury will not drain the family nest egg. To paraphrase Winston Churchill: "Free health care may be a terrible system, but it's better than all the rest."

How well does your state-run universal health-care work? Is the quality better or worse than private hospitals? How quick on average can a patient get treatment? I have always been curious if such a system works better.
The only private ones are American hospitals. The quality of care is about the same, but Americans wait much less. It does help that Americans spend more per capita on healthcare so meh.

The only private ones are American hospitals. The quality of care is about the same, but Americans wait much less. It does help that Americans spend more per capita on healthcare so meh.

That's cus they RECEIVE more from stupid healthcare costs that individuals have to pay for even if they can't afford it - or if the person says they can't afford to pay doctors to save their life, they are made to sign a form that means docots let them dies, thus saving money helping them. It's sickening. As crap as our (UK) free healthcare system may be at times, it's better than having the choice of poverty or death.

I wasn't aware any did. As long as a single-payer persists, our system looks nothing like the US system.


They pay lip service to the public system, but they would love to privatize.

6,000 bucks for an x-ray? Not in Canada. Nyet on private health care.

Not in the US either, even without insurance.

Granted the USA may not have Universal Healthcare, however, it is a law that hospitals can NOT turn away anybody in need of medical attention. Meaning, the hospitals must see to your problems. Why do you think that the ER is filled with illegals. These illegals are always attended to and that's because of the laws that mandate the hospitals to see you.

I for one, do have Health Insurance.

The bad thing is the long wait in the ER because all the people without insurance are their for their cold and flu. So, those who do have true emergencis have to wait longer. :(