NationStates Jolt Archive


hi,this has me sick and baffled(kinda abortion thread)

Secret aj man
25-10-2006, 02:46
the only reason i am posting this is because i am really curious about people other then americans thoughts on this.

abortion is a hot button issue in the states,which i think is basically stupid,to me it is a no brainer..womens decision basically.

i will state i am against abortion,i tried to talk my wife into aborting my son for financial reasons years ago,had a daughter and a mortgage,and he was not planned(she forgot to take her pills or some such)
long story short..she refused to have an abortion..and i am thankfull everyday she stood her ground.

the reason i preface this thread is because ifind the attached article deeply disturbing,and to let everyone know where i stand,so i wont be flamed.
as much as i am against abortion,i am 100% of the mind that it is the womens choice...should be legal..and none of anyones business.

with certain exceptions:

re: the following...

Abortion charge dismissed against pregnant woman who shot herself


© May 9, 2006 | Last updated 6:58 PM May. 9

SUFFOLK — If an assailant had shot Tammy Skinner in the stomach on the day she was to give birth, killing her baby, he could have been prosecuted.

Because she shot herself earlier this year, however, General District Court Judge James A. Moore decided Monday that she can’t be tried for producing a miscarriage or abortion, and he dismissed the felony charge.

Skinner’s attorney argued at a preliminary hearing that the charge is meant to be used against a third party and that the same offense with similar wording has been tested in courts in both Florida and Georgia and failed. It simply does not govern an expectant mother doing something to herself, Kevin E. Martingayle said.


“We can feel all of the moral outrage in the world for what this woman did,” he said in court, “ but the facts in this particular situation are that this statute does not apply.”

Prosecutors could ask a grand jury for a direct indictment in the landmark case, but right now they are still trying to decide what to do, Commonwealth’s Attorney Phil Ferguson said .

“We are dealing with a woman who, by her own hands, killed her child on the day of its birth,” he said. “This was a nine-month fetus, clearly in the realm of viability. Whether it meets legal tests to constitute criminal conduct – we’re reviewing and exploring our options.”

Prosecutors have said since the beginning that Skinner’s case could be a first in the state. Virginia’s fetal homicide law doesn’t direct guilt to the mother either. That law, adopted in 2004, refers to killing “the fetus of another.”

Skinner, 22, also was charged with using a firearm in commission of a felony. That charge was not prosecuted because it must apply to a certain list of felonies, not including the miscarriage statute.

Skinner was found guilty Monday of filing a false police report, a misdemeanor for which the judge sentenced her to 30 days in jail, all suspended. Prosecutor Marie Walls requested that Skinner repay the cost of the police investigation. A hearing July 10 will decide whether she’ll have to pay the estimated $750 to $1,500 .

Skinner, Walls said in court, called police from a car dealership before dawn Feb. 23 and told them a man had shot her in the stomach and pushed her out of the car. She later changed her story to say that the baby’s father shot her.

Police found blood in Skinner’s red compact car, and a gun, according to a search warrant.

On Monday, Martingayle said he was happy with the judge’s decision.

“It was clear to me, and clear to the judge, that you cannot convict when an expectant mother does this,” he said.

Martingayle said his client was emotionally distraught at the end of her pregnancy. Family members said the single mother of two had been battling depression for a while.

“Ask yourself what kind of place somebody would have to be in for this to happen?” Martingayle said. “She’ll be paying the price the rest of her life.



now i do understand women can have massive hormonal imbalances during pregnancy,which can cause all kinds of adverse affects.
but at 9 months..would not adoption be a more viable alternative?

does any one think this women should be punished?

should she be adjudicated mentally unstable?

should she go to jail?

wtf do you do in this situation..i am mortified someone could do this,and my gut reaction is to punish her,but i do realise people are not always in control of their faculties.

does that not exonerate someone killing someone cause they were drunk,on drugs,depressed,jilted?

i really dont understand this..i would hate to be that judge.

opinions please..not pro/con abortion debate...like i said,i am against abortion,but pro choice for women...but not at 9 months.

i also think that some responsibility falls on the person getting pregnant..there is protection available..and other options(adoption)

but in this case...wtf do you do..i would hate to punish someone that was so distaught they shot themselves..but still.
Nadkor
25-10-2006, 02:49
Basically, abortion isn't an issue in pretty much all of Europe (except for Ireland).

It's generally accepted that it's a woman's right to do what she feels with her body.
Pyotr
25-10-2006, 02:51
Already a thread with this article, but yea I am against abortion as birth control.

I am for abortion in cases of rape, incest, endangerment to the mother's life, and cases where the mother or father cannot financially support the child. The children born to parents who cannot care for or raise them, are usually neglected if not outright abused, and will usually end up on the street. As far as birth-control, we have condoms, pills, and a myriad of contraceptional products for your use, or you could just not have sex.....
Arrkendommer
25-10-2006, 02:53
Basically, abortion isn't an issue in pretty much all of Europe (except for Ireland).

It's generally accepted that it's a woman's right to do what she feels with her body.

1 Europe 0 America
Katganistan
25-10-2006, 02:58
1 Europe 0 America
Make that 1 Europe (except Ireland) and 0 American Bible-Belt and Red States.
CthulhuFhtagn
25-10-2006, 02:59
Old article.
Secret aj man
25-10-2006, 03:00
Already a thread with this article, but yea I am against abortion as birth control.

I am for abortion in cases of rape, incest, endangerment to the mother's life, and cases where the mother or father cannot financially support the child. The children born to parents who cannot care for or raise them, are usually neglected if not outright abused, and will usually end up on the street. As far as birth-control, we have condoms, pills, and a myriad of contraceptional products for your use, or you could just not have sex.....

sorry,i did not know it was posted,and i looked,apparently not hard enough.

i agree with you that while i would never want my spouse/other to have an abortion...it should always be the womens decision..period.

i also think that it would be better to NOT GET PREGNANT to begin with.

i honestly dont even think abortion as birth control is that bad(repugnant to me) but it is far better then children being abused or neglected due to the parents shortcomings.
Kothuwania
25-10-2006, 03:04
1 Europe 0 America

I believe you have that backwards.

i also think that it would be better to NOT GET PREGNANT to begin with.

Tru dat.
Pyotr
25-10-2006, 03:05
-SNIP-


I think its repugnant as well, but I would not support forcing women to not undergo the procedure. Frankly, it doesn't matter what I think, I am not going to tell a grown woman what she can or cannot do with her body.....Even if I do find it to be disgusting.
Nadkor
25-10-2006, 03:10
I believe you have that backwards.


You think it should be "aciremA 0 eporuE 1" :confused:
Callisdrun
25-10-2006, 03:17
Just to get this out of the way, I'm pro-choice.


However, I think abortion always be done before this time, unless there's serious issues.

So, I do think that what she did was wrong, and illegal.


However, I don't think she's mentally in a stable place at all, considering that she shot herself.
Callisdrun
25-10-2006, 03:17
You think it should be "aciremA 0 eporuE 1" :confused:

nice
Kothuwania
25-10-2006, 03:22
You think it should be "aciremA 0 eporuE 1" :confused:

Touché.
Sericoyote
25-10-2006, 03:23
I think it's very sad and unfortunate that this woman felt that shooting herself was her only option. I am extremely sad every time I hear a story of a newborn baby being left in a ditch or in a trash can because the mother didn't want it and didn't know what to do. In the United States a mother can legally give up her child, no questions asked, at various places known as "Safe Baby Zones" (such as police stations, hospitals, and fire stations). Many babies who die cruel deaths each year could be saved if we could just get these mothers to utilize the system that's in place for their benefit, rather than taking dangerous and extreme actions such as the one the woman in this case did.

:(
Secret aj man
25-10-2006, 04:43
I think it's very sad and unfortunate that this woman felt that shooting herself was her only option. I am extremely sad every time I hear a story of a newborn baby being left in a ditch or in a trash can because the mother didn't want it and didn't know what to do. In the United States a mother can legally give up her child, no questions asked, at various places known as "Safe Baby Zones" (such as police stations, hospitals, and fire stations). Many babies who die cruel deaths each year could be saved if we could just get these mothers to utilize the system that's in place for their benefit, rather than taking dangerous and extreme actions such as the one the woman in this case did.

:(


while i agree with everything you said,i cant help but think...what kinda place was this poor women in?

i find it disturbing beyond the pale...but at the same time...to carry your baby to term...then kill it and yourself most likely,implies serious mental instability.
that was my point of this thread(unaware it had been discussed...sorry)

my point was.....what should be done to this obviously disturbed women?

i never claimed to be the solomen of the world..this truly baffles me,on one hand i want to slap her silly...on the other i feel bad for her.

fucking life...and if her family felt she was so depressed..maybe they could have helped her more?

all i know is i love kids,and it pisses me off when they are abused/neglected/murdered...this should have been preventable.

if she had issues..their is options,if she did not want the kid..their are options...if she was wallowing..still options...which brings us back to punitive actions...i just dont want to be the one to apply them..but she deserves something...be it jail...help in a trauma center..whatever..i have no idea.