NationStates Jolt Archive

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Fatah is preparing for a major showdown with Hamas in the Gaza Strip after the Muslim feast of Id al-Fitr, Palestinian sources said on Tuesday.

The sources said that Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas has instructed his loyalists in Fatah and the PA security forces to be prepared for a "major security operation" in the Gaza Strip in the coming days.

They said the decision was made in the wake of the growing tensions between Hamas and Fatah and the killing of five Fatah activists and security officers over the past few days.

"Thousands of Palestinian policemen and Fatah gunmen will be deployed in the streets of the Gaza Strip after the feast," the sources told The Jerusalem Post. "The measure is designed to halt the anarchy in the Gaza Strip and to show Hamas that the PA leadership is determined to protect its representatives."

Abbas, who met in Amman on Tuesday with Jordan's King Abdullah, is under immense pressure from his Fatah party to dismiss the Hamas government and call early elections. Some Fatah leaders have gone as far as urging Abbas to stage a coup against the Hamas government under the pretext that it has failed to carry out its duties.

Former PA security chief Muhammed Dahlan called on Abbas to use his constitutional powers to resolve the crisis with Hamas.

Accusing Hamas of carrying out systematic assassinations against Fatah operatives in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, Dahlan also accused Hamas of violating a cease-fire agreement with Fatah that was reached under the auspices of Egypt.

"Hamas's actions are leading us to civil war," he cautioned. "We call on President Abbas to assume his responsibilities and take decisive measures to end the crisis."

Syria-based Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, who met earlier this week in Doha with Qatar's emir, Hamad bin Khaifa al-Thani, was reported to have warned that his movement would foil any attempt by Abbas to replace the Hamas government.

Mashaal, who was summoned to Qatar for urgent talks on the Hamas-Fatah crisis, is expected to visit Cairo in the coming days to seek ways to avoid an all-out confrontation with Abbas's Fatah party.

Both Qatar and Egypt have been exerting heavy pressure on Hamas to agree to Abbas's plan to form a technocratic government that would convince the international community to resume financial aid to the Palestinians.

But in an interview with Al-Jazeera, Mashaal categorically rejected the idea, saying a "technocratic" government was good in Europe, but not in a place like the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Mashaal was also reported to have rejected a Qatari initiative calling for the release of Cpl. Gilad Shalit in return for a few hundred Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails.

Egypt, Qatar and Jordan have warned the Palestinians that Israel is preparing a massive military operation in the Gaza Strip in the event that efforts to release Shalit fail, a senior PA official told the Post. He said that such an operation would play into the hands of Hamas and undermine Abbas's efforts to replace the Hamas government.

"The countdown for an Israeli assault on the Gaza Strip has begun," the official claimed. "Such an operation will have devastating effects on the people in the Gaza Strip and could result in the collapse of the Palestinian Authority."

In a separate development, PA Interior Minister Said Siam of Hamas returned to the Gaza Strip on Tuesday through the Rafah border crossing after visiting Syria, Iran and Egypt.

Transportation Minister Shaul Mofaz had called on the government to prevent Siam from returning to the Gaza Strip because of his meetings in Damascus and Teheran, but the request was turned down by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.


I like how i called this one a year or two back when Arafat died. It looks like the threat of civil war between the palestinians is imminent. If it does happen, I think Israel will take advantage of it, and go in and sweep the area, and annex it for good to Israel, and be done with it. Of course this would piss of the world. But with my infinite wisdom, I see it coming soon :)

no one finds this concering>?

No one finds it suprising or unusual enough to even +1 here

Cept me

no one finds this concering>?

I do, you may be onto to something with the Israelis annexing Gaza/W. bank, although the "enemy of my enemy" idea might re-unite the palestinians. If Israel annexes Palestine, there will be a huge shit-storm, both from the U.N. and from other western countries, Israel already lost most of its credibility with the little Lebanon adventure this summer. The palestinians are not going to sit on their hands while the Israelis establish rule over them, I'm predicting a full-fledged Intifada part III.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1159193512927&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull



I like how i called this one a year or two back when Arafat died. It looks like the threat of civil war between the palestinians is imminent. If it does happen, I think Israel will take advantage of it, and go in and sweep the area, and annex it for good to Israel, and be done with it. Of course this would piss of the world. But with my infinite wisdom, I see it coming soon :)



I doubt Israel cares as long as it stays in Palestine. How many times do they have to prove they want NOTHING to do with them except a secure border and a stop to terrorist actions ?

Aside from that stress in Palestine hurts the Israeli economy being as such the palestinians form the cheap labor pool .

I doubt Israel cares as long as it stays in Palestine. How many times do they have to prove they want NOTHING to do with them except a secure border and a stop to terrorist actions ?

Aside from that stress in Palestine hurts the Israeli economy being as such the palestinians form the cheap labor pool .

You have to figure in the political upside for this. On one hand it looks bad in the international community, but the Israelis havebeen pissed at Olmert for not being tougher in lebanon,so he might use this to show his "strength" in his leadership.

After the embarassment Bush received in Hamas being elected to begin with I wonder if he would say that it is a good thing that the terrorists are being overthrown or be upset that a democracy is being subverted. So hard to decide...

Utracia, of course he would be glad. Bush doesn't want to get involved, so he's waiting for someone else to dispose Hamas.

You have to figure in the political upside for this. On one hand it looks bad in the international community, but the Israelis havebeen pissed at Olmert for not being tougher in lebanon,so he might use this to show his "strength" in his leadership.

I hope not . And I also hope they can find a happy ending without more fucking blood....man ..when is enough enough ? Is there anyplace in the world so soaked in the stuff ?

They fucking voted for it now live with it ...they remind me of republicans and democrats except they think its a blood sport...well plus they dont have any foley types to pick on....

Utracia, of course he would be glad. Bush doesn't want to get involved, so he's waiting for someone else to dispose Hamas.

Sometimes I have no idea what that guy is going to say. I know that inside he will love having Hamas gone but publicly? He has praised Palestine for having elections to begin with and just because he didn't like the results isn't going to allow him to say anything other but supporting Hamas as they were democratically elected.

In this past election, Palestinians had the choice between a terror group and a corrupt leadership. Not much of a choice is it. I personally would have recommended Omar Karsou's "Palestinian Democracy" party, but if you say things like you support democracy or you condemn suicide bombing in the Palestinian National Authority you would literally be lynched within seconds, so he runs his party from the US.

I can't muster any sympathy for Paletinians. They have put themselves in the precarious seat in which they currently sit.

I bet they wish that their SS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haj_Amin_Al-Husseini#The_Holocaust) leader in 1947 accepted the partition.

I can't muster any sympathy for Paletinians. They have put themselves in the precarious seat in which they currently sit.

I bet they wish that their SS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haj_Amin_Al-Husseini#The_Holocaust) leader in 1947 accepted the partition.

I can whole heartedly say i agree. They have caused this trouble on themselves.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1159193512927&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull



I like how i called this one a year or two back when Arafat died. It looks like the threat of civil war between the palestinians is imminent. If it does happen, I think Israel will take advantage of it, and go in and sweep the area, and annex it for good to Israel, and be done with it. Of course this would piss of the world. But with my infinite wisdom, I see it coming soon :)

Israel's ONLY (humanly speaking) hope of survival is to IGNORE the opinion of the UN and of the world in general, with the POSSIBLE exception of the USA, because the UN and the world in general (with SOME exceptions, but not many) are solidly, unrepentantly, anti-Israel and anti-Semitic, almost if not altogether to the point of genocide.

If Israel ever, EVER starts giving a wooden nickel about the "world's" opinion, THAT will be the death of them, short of a miraculous intervention.

But now that I mention "miraculous intervention," Israel's mere EXISTENCE today is exactly that, and a testimony to God and His word, the Bible, that They are true.

The UN knows this, and they want to discredit the Bible at ANY cost, because the Bible ALSO says that God is gathering the nations (except Israel - God does not reckon Israel among the "nations"; He separated them OUT of the nations unto Himself) together for the express purpose of JUDGING THEM AND DESTROYING THEM, because they have persecuted His chosen people, the Jews.

Zephaniah 3:8
...my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.

The UN knows that the Bible says this about them, and if they can destroy Israel and kill every last Jew on the face of the earth, both in Israel and elsewhere, then they will have disproved the Bible. But if they CAN'T, then that means the Bible is true and was written by God Himself.

I don't know about YOU, but I'm betting MY money (and my SOUL) on the Bible.

I can whole heartedly say i agree. They have caused this trouble on themselves.

Indeed, good to see others agree on this

There is a saying. The Palestians never miss an oppotunity to miss an oppotunity

Oppotunities missed (only 3 I know, but there are plenty more, just these three pop into my head atm)

1948 - The partition - was more than far to the Arabs living in the area

1948 - The repatriation law - Palestians were allowed, by a law post the Isralie war of independence, to return to their homes if they had left if they did the following 3 things
- Renounced viloence
- Became Isralie citizens
- Became peaceful & productive citizens

2000 - The Clinton Barack proposals - 95% of the W Bank, all of Gaza and East Jerusalaem and Arafat rejected it. A foolish mistake.

Israel's ONLY (humanly speaking) hope of survival is to IGNORE the opinion of the UN and of the world in general, with the POSSIBLE exception of the USA, because the UN and the world in general (with SOME exceptions, but not many) are solidly, unrepentantly, anti-Israel and anti-Semitic, almost if not altogether to the point of genocide.

If Israel ever, EVER starts giving a wooden nickel about the "world's" opinion, THAT will be the death of them, short of a miraculous intervention.

But now that I mention "miraculous intervention," Israel's mere EXISTENCE today is exactly that, and a testimony to God and His word, the Bible, that They are true.

The UN knows this, and they want to discredit the Bible at ANY cost, because the Bible ALSO says that God is gathering the nations (except Israel - God does not reckon Israel among the "nations"; He separated them OUT of the nations unto Himself) together for the express purpose of JUDGING THEM AND DESTROYING THEM, because they have persecuted His chosen people, the Jews.

Zephaniah 3:8
...my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.

The UN knows that the Bible says this about them, and if they can destroy Israel and kill every last Jew on the face of the earth, both in Israel and elsewhere, then they will have disproved the Bible. But if they CAN'T, then that means the Bible is true and was written by God Himself.

I don't know about YOU, but I'm betting MY money (and my SOUL) on the Bible.


Someones been reading the left-behind series too much.

Someones been reading the left-behind series too much.

No offense, but why do you read that garbage?

Indeed, good to see others agree on this

There is a saying. The Palestians never miss an oppotunity to miss an oppotunity

Oppotunities missed (only 3 I know, but there are plenty more, just these three pop into my head atm)

1948 - The partition - was more than far to the Arabs living in the area

1948 - The repatriation law - Palestians were allowed, by a law post the Isralie war of independence, to return to their homes if they had left if they did the following 3 things
- Renounced viloence
- Became Isralie citizens
- Became peaceful & productive citizens

2000 - The Clinton Barack proposals - 95% of the W Bank, all of Gaza and East Jerusalaem and Arafat rejected it. A foolish mistake.
You're also forgetting the 1937 deal which would've given the Jews Tel Aviv, the Galilee and that's about it. The Palestinians of course rejected it at the order of their leader, who was at the time also in the Waffen-SS. Oh, and the 2005 pullout of Gaza and the proposed pullout of the West Bank which they have just made sure won't happen.

No offense, but why do you read that garbage?It's the only kind of Scheisse-porn the Bible allows.

After the embarassment Bush received in Hamas being elected to begin with I wonder if he would say that it is a good thing that the terrorists are being overthrown or be upset that a democracy is being subverted. So hard to decide...

hehe

quite the interesting perspective...and accurate.

to the op...if civil war occurs,i think the israilis will be hands off,at least i would be...let the dust settle and go from there.
mercenary..yep...but practical for them.

hehe

quite the interesting perspective...and accurate.

to the op...if civil war occurs,i think the israilis will be hands off,at least i would be...let the dust settle and go from there.
mercenary..yep...but practical for them.

Israel will just pop the cork off the Manishevitz and sit back as their enemy self destructs. It's the smart move at least.

hehe

quite the interesting perspective...and accurate.

to the op...if civil war occurs,i think the israilis will be hands off,at least i would be...let the dust settle and go from there.
mercenary..yep...but practical for them.

Israel will just pop the cork off the Manishevitz and sit back as their enemy self destructs. It's the smart move at least.

How about an Iraqi civil war?

Israel will just pop the cork off the Manishevitz and sit back as their enemy self destructs. It's the smart move at least.

Israel like any country is run by politicians. So they may not do the smart thing, you know.

Clearly you know little of the Israeli government. Everyone's far too liberal to actually go invade, and were that on the agenda, they'd have done it already. It's not like the Arabs infesting the area were ever an unconquerable threat.

And really, you predicted a civil war among Muslims? Holy shit, I'm in awe.

Indeed, good to see others agree on this

There is a saying. The Palestians never miss an oppotunity to miss an oppotunity

Oppotunities missed (only 3 I know, but there are plenty more, just these three pop into my head atm)

1948 - The partition - was more than far to the Arabs living in the area

1948 - The repatriation law - Palestians were allowed, by a law post the Isralie war of independence, to return to their homes if they had left if they did the following 3 things
- Renounced viloence
- Became Isralie citizens
- Became peaceful & productive citizens

2000 - The Clinton Barack proposals - 95% of the W Bank, all of Gaza and East Jerusalaem and Arafat rejected it. A foolish mistake.

OF COURSE Arafat rejected it, because Arafat was NOT the least bit interested in making peace with Israel. Arafat was only interested in GENOCIDE. Arafat wanted the Israelis run out of their own (the Israelis') land and slaughtered. He had absolutely NO desire for peace or any end to the tension in the Middle East that did not include the death of every last Jew in Israel, and possibly worldwide.

The JEWS are the ones interested in peace without genocide; Arafat wasn't.

Arafat was a bloodsucking, anti-Semitic, inhumane MURDERER.
Plain and simple.

Someones been reading the left-behind series too much.

Left Behind?

I have NOT been reading the Left Behind series; I have been reading the BIBLE.

YOU ought to try reading the Bible sometime; you just might ;) find something you didn't expect would be in there!

I don't care what the Palestinians do to each other. I just hope they don't screw with Israel and force Birthright to cancel my trip this December.

There will be hell to pay if that one happens.

Palestinian terrorist -:eek: :sniper: -Israeli soldier

I doubt Israel cares as long as it stays in Palestine. How many times do they have to prove they want NOTHING to do with them except a secure border and a stop to terrorist actions ?

.

Once would be nice.....

OF COURSE Arafat rejected it, because Arafat was NOT the least bit interested in making peace with Israel. Arafat was only interested in GENOCIDE. Arafat wanted the Israelis run out of their own (the Israelis') land and slaughtered. He had absolutely NO desire for peace or any end to the tension in the Middle East that did not include the death of every last Jew in Israel, and possibly worldwide.

The JEWS are the ones interested in peace without genocide; Arafat wasn't.

Arafat was a bloodsucking, anti-Semitic, inhumane MURDERER.
Plain and simple.

Don't forget child molester. Read, for example, Red Horizons: Chronicles of a Communist Spy Chief by Romanian defector Ion Mihai Pacepa.

Hamas in arms against Fatah, Fatah sending police against Hamas...
I think that the Palestinian civil war has already begun.

O thou Athena goddess of reason, please knock some sense into the heads of those people, grab them by their hair like thou did with Achilles... It's up to thee now, since Yahweh and Allah are already bored with those crazy guys.

Possible civil war in Palestine?

There is an ongoing war in Palestine since 1948.
.

I hope not . And I also hope they can find a happy ending without more fucking blood....man ..when is enough enough ? Is there anyplace in the world so soaked in the stuff ?

They fucking voted for it now live with it ...they remind me of republicans and democrats except they think its a blood sport...well plus they dont have any foley types to pick on....

hell yeah good post. fuck'em.

Israel like any country is run by politicians. So they may not do the smart thing, you know.Especially with Olmert in charge. He is not qualified to be the PM of a nation. Before being the Deputy PM, he was the Mayor of Jerusalem. As much as I don't like the Kadima-Likud Coalition, I'd rather have Shimon Peres in there as PM.

I like how i called this one a year or two back when Arafat died. It looks like the threat of civil war between the palestinians is imminent. If it does happen, I think Israel will take advantage of it, and go in and sweep the area, and annex it for good to Israel, and be done with it. Of course this would piss of the world. But with my infinite wisdom, I see it coming soon :)There's very little political gain to be had for the present govenment by sweeping into Gaza again, unless they quickly recapture the missing soldier and stop the Qasam rockets frm the strip. Neither of those objectives are going to be easy to achieve. If tehy were, they would have been done already. The government doesn't want to inolve the army in any more failed missions right now.



You have to figure in the political upside for this. On one hand it looks bad in the international community, but the Israelis havebeen pissed at Olmert for not being tougher in lebanon,so he might use this to show his "strength" in his leadership.People are pissed off at the mismanagement of the war, for sure - but it isn't uniformly about lack of toughness. Many people think the war should have ended differently, or earlier, or carried out with better decision-making and tactical planning.
A mission in Gaza will not improve the governmenet's prognosis right now - on the contrary, they'd be likely to go down in the polls if the mission wasn't an immediate success. Israelis, by concencuss, would like to wash their hands of Gaza, pull their boys out of it, and let the Palestinians deal.

YOU ought to try reading the Bible sometime; you just might ;) find something you didn't expect would be in there!

Tentacle rape?


Anyway, after the Lebanon incident, I doubt that Israel will intervene at all if a Palestinian civil war goes ahead. After being humiliated by Hezbollah, and also seeing from Iraq and Afghanistan that pacifying land in the Middle East is a supremely difficult task, I doubt that the Israeli leadership are keen to take that sort of action.

Not to mention that it would not make any gains for them. An assault into Palestine would possibly unite Fatah and Hamas against their common enemy, as well as encouraging otherwise peaceful Palestinians to take up arms. After Lebanon they should also have learned that the sort of military force that a modern democracy can bring to bear will not bring an end to attacks: Hezbollah continued firing rockets throughout the invasion of Lebanon.

They stand to gain far more by allowing Hamas and Fatah to cut each other to pieces: a civil war will give Palestinian militants targets to attack within Palestine and possibly distract them from attacking Israel for a while, and a weakened Palestine would pose less of a threat, not to mention that Israel could then negotiate from a vastly stronger position (not that I think they would: Israel and Palestine seem iincapable of agreement).

Clearly you know little of the Israeli government. Everyone's far too liberal to actually go invade, and were that on the agenda, they'd have done it already. It's not like the Arabs infesting the area were ever an unconquerable threat.

And really, you predicted a civil war among Muslims? Holy shit, I'm in awe.

I don't care what the Palestinians do to each other. I just hope they don't screw with Israel and force Birthright to cancel my trip this December.

There will be hell to pay if that one happens.

Palestinian terrorist -:eek: :sniper: -Israeli soldier

Arabs infesting? The only reason you dont want a civil war is it might ruin your free holiday? Birthright obviously dont weed out racits. Or is it a pre requisite?

What a horrible bastard you are.

Arabs infesting? The only reason you dont want a civil war is it might ruin your free holiday? Birthright obviously dont weed out racits. Or is it a pre requisite?

What a horrible bastard you are.

Um, yes, I'd call a group of individuals occupying the land of a sovereign nation while trying to overthrow it something of an infestation. Is this going to turn into an "OMG THE ISRAELIES ARE SUCH AN INJUSTICE" debate? If so, I'm not in the mood.

Some people keep forgetting this little fact...


http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1947UN181.html


Live with it. The world will be a much better place if you just accept this little fact.

Group hug time in Palestine ...before they do Israels job for them anyway .

If they keep it up there wont be any Palestinians left to give land back to .

Um, yes, I'd call a group of individuals occupying the land of a sovereign nation while trying to overthrow it something of an infestation. Is this going to turn into an "OMG THE ISRAELIES ARE SUCH AN INJUSTICE" debate? If so, I'm not in the mood.

no, we wouldnt acccept that language on NS about jews, so why should we accept it about arabs.

the only thing worse than a racist is an a la carte racist.

Arabs infesting? The only reason you dont want a civil war is it might ruin your free holiday? Birthright obviously dont weed out racits. Or is it a pre requisite?

What a horrible bastard you are.

I don't care about the Palestinians because they have made themselves the enemy of Israel and my people. I'm sorry I can't feel compassion for a group that has continuously rejected peace in order to fight my people. Screw them. When they elected Hamas in response to Israeli peace moves, any sympathy I may have once held for them went out the window.

I bet you would be calling me a miserable bastard in 1944 if I said nuke Germany.

no, we wouldnt acccept that language on NS about jews, so why should we accept it about arabs.

the only thing worse than a racist is an a la carte racist.

... If you interpreted that as a racist sentiment, you're going to have a hard time in the real world.

I don't care about the Palestinians because they have made themselves the enemy of Israel and my people. I'm sorry I can't feel compassion for a group that has continuously rejected peace in order to fight my people. Screw them. When they elected Hamas in response to Israeli peace moves, any sympathy I may have once held for them went out the window.

I bet you would be calling me a miserable bastard in 1944 if I said nuke Germany.

so it is racism?

what have the Palestinains 2006 got to do with Germany 1944? Is that Godwin?

When you put the amount of economic pressure put on Palestinians by the international community its not exactly a shocker that Hamas and Fatah may not see eye to eye.

I don't care about the Palestinians because they have made themselves the enemy of Israel and my people. .

Who expelled who?


I'm sorry I can't feel compassion for a group that has continuously rejected peace in order to fight my people. .

According to you.

I'm sorry I can't feel compassion for a group that has continuously rejected peace in order to fight my people.
Yeah... expanding settlements and launching regular attacks while controling their boarders and demanding chunks of their land for peace while jailing kids for throwing rocks at tanks invading their country is a real good offer of peace for them.

Yeah... expanding settlements and launching regular attacks while controling their boarders and demanding chunks of their land for peace while jailing kids for throwing rocks at tanks invading their country is a real good offer of peace for them.
If you ignore the border control thing and replace 'jailing kids for throwing rocks at tanks invading their country' with 'blowing up buses and cafes' you're talking about the Palestinians.

I don't care about the Palestinians because they have made themselves the enemy of Israel and my people. I'm sorry I can't feel compassion for a group that has continuously rejected peace in order to fight my people. Screw them. When they elected Hamas in response to Israeli peace moves, any sympathy I may have once held for them went out the window.

There have been no "peace moves" on the Israeli side ever since Netanyahu had been elected 10 years ago. Even prior to that only Rabin was ready to make compromises one day, and he was killed by a follower of your de-facto state religion. And the subsequent election(s) showed clearly what Israelis really want: all of what was Palestine in 1923.
And "your people" were the enemy of Arabs and especially the Palestinians from the time "your people" strated immigrating in considerable numbers into Palestine over 100 years ago now. The Zionist movement was anti-Arabic and thus in fact anti-Semitic from the get-go.
So cut the crap.
Hamas was elected because of constant Israeli attacks on Gaza and continued atrocities against Palestinians in the West Bank by Jewish settlers, often supported or condoned by the Israeli military.
.

If you ignore the border control thing and replace 'jailing kids for throwing rocks at tanks invading their country' with 'blowing up buses and cafes' you're talking about the Palestinians.

When was the last time they blew up a bus?

(the border control thing also keeps Palastine in abject poverty, so it's hardly a minor issue)

I also think it is a bit harsh for the invader (building settlements in someone elses country and killing people who approach them) to claim resistance to such invasion is morally as bad as the invader invading and responding to the resistance with a bit of overkill.

When was the last time they blew up a bus?

(the border control thing also keeps Palastine in abject poverty, so it's hardly a minor issue)

I also think it is a bit harsh for the invader (building settlements in someone elses country and killing people who approach them) to claim resistance to such invasion is morally as bad as the invader invading and responding to the resistance with a bit of overkill.

Resistance and even actively striking back is never bad, neither morally nor otherwise. Or do you think every people who have been invaded by foreigners are supposed to just suffer occupation? Was fighting back the Germans in WW2 morally bad? I don't think so.
BTW WW2 was over in 6 years, Palestinian Arabs have been suffering under foreign occupation for almost 60 years now. If you also count the Turks and British it is already 490 years.
.

Resistance and even actively striking back is never bad, neither morally nor otherwise. Or do you think every people who have been invaded by foreigners are supposed to just suffer occupation? Was fighting back the Germans in WW2 morally bad? I don't think so.
BTW WW2 was over in 6 years, Palestinian Arabs have been suffering under foreign occupation for almost 60 years now. If you also count the Turks and British it is already 490 years.
.
You have my comment backwards, although it was akwardly worded.

I was saying it is harsh for Israel and its supporters to say that resistance to occupation is morally as bad, or worse, than the occupation.

There have been no "peace moves" on the Israeli side ever since Netanyahu had been elected 10 years ago.

2000 - Clinton Barack proposals. In exchange for peace & giving up the claim of return, Israel would give Palestine all of the west bank, all of Gaza and all of East Jerusalem


And "your people" were the enemy of Arabs and especially the Palestinians from the time "your people" strated immigrating in considerable numbers into Palestine over 100 years ago now. The Zionist movement was anti-Arabic and thus in fact anti-Semitic from the get-go.

And of course we have your word for that? How about some evidence.

Resistance and even actively striking back is never bad, neither morally nor otherwise. Or do you think every people who have been invaded by foreigners are supposed to just suffer occupation? Was fighting back the Germans in WW2 morally bad? I don't think so.

Fighting back means fighting those who opress you. In the case of the Palestians this is arguably the Isralie millitary. If the Palestinian extremists limited their attacks to just millitary targets, their cause would be legitmate. But they dont. They blow up shoping centres, night clubs, marketplaces, busy streets etc. Places where lots of civilians are. Civilians are not legitimate targets. The fighting back against the Germans in WW2 was limited to the German millitary/industrial capacities. We did not intentionally go out of our way to bomb civilian centres.

I also think it is a bit harsh for the invader (building settlements in someone elses country and killing people who approach them) to claim resistance to such invasion is morally as bad as the invader invading and responding to the resistance with a bit of overkill.

Resistance to invasion means you target the invaders (the Isralie army). You dont target civilians. They have done you no wrong.

We did not intentionally go out of our way to bomb civilian centres.
That's not quite true, but I'll let it slide because it would just hijack the thread.

Resistance to invasion means you target the invaders (the Isralie army). You dont target civilians. They have done you no wrong.

1. If the 'civilians' willingly participate in the invasion and benefit from it and their benefit is the purpose of the invasion then I think it is a stretch to say they have done no wrong.

2. When the 'civilains' have all done military service and carry arms and a large portion are members of the reserve army, 'civilian' is a bit of a stretch.

And of course we have your word for that? How about some evidence.
Prior to the Zionist movement there were very few Jewish people in Palastine, large numbers began to move there in the first half of the century (before WW2, but increased after WW2).

With this increased number came no shortage of 'incidents' in the early years of Israel that were carried out to drive Arabs off their land and free up some space so the 'Chosen People' could have some 'Living Space'. Looks pretty Anti-Arab to me.

Some examples - baised source, but if you wish to provide counter evidence against these then go ahead: (Linkey (http://www.palestiniantragedy.com/zionistterror.html))

The King David Massacre, 1946: 92 dead
This attack was carried out by the Irgun terrorist organization and with the knowledge of David Ben Gurion, the highest-ranking Zionist official of the period. A total of 92 people, consisting of Britons, Palestinians, and Jews, were killed, and 45 were seriously injured.
Baldat Al-Shaikh Massacre, 1947: 60 dead
Sixty Palestinians sleeping in their beds, among them women, children, and the elderly, lost their lives as a result of this attack, which was carried out by 150-200 Zionist terrorists. The attack began at 2:00 a.m. and lasted for 4 hours.

Yehida Massacre, 1947: 13 dead
At Yehida, one of the first Zionist settlements, Zionist assailants dressed as British soldiers opened fire on Muslims.

Khisas Massacre, 1947: 10 dead
Two cars full of Haganah members entered the village of Khisas on the Lebanese border and opened fire on everyone who crossed their paths.

Qazaza Massacre, 1947: 5 children dead
Five children lost their lives in this episode, in which Zionist terrorists attacked a random house.

The Semiramis Hotel Massacre, 1948: 19 dead
In an operation aimed at making the Palestinians uneasy and forcing them out of Jerusalem, a group of Zionist terrorists directed by Israel's first president, David Ben Gurion, blew up the Semiramis Hotel. Nineteen people were killed.

Naser al-Din Massacre, 1948
A group of Zionist terrorists dressed as Arab soldiers opened fire on those townspeople who left their homes to greet them. Only 40 people escaped the carnage, and the village was wiped off the map.

The Tantura Massacre, 1948: 200 dead
Tantura, now home to about 1,500 Jewish settlers, was the site of a large massacre of Muslims in 1948. Israeli historian Teddy Katz described the attack as follows: "From the numbers, this is definitely one of the biggest massacres."

The Dahmash Mosque Massacre, 1948: 100 dead
Israeli 89th Commando Battalion lead by the future Minister of Defense Moshe Dayan, announced to the villagers that they would be safe only if they assembled at the mosque. However, the 100 Muslims who sought refuge there were slaughtered. The terrified residents of Lydda and Ramle abandoned their lands. Approximately 60,000 Palestinians emigrated, and 350 more died en route due to poor medical conditions.

Dawayma Massacre, 1948: 100 dead
This attack was one of the largest Israeli massacres. A majority of those killed were assembled at the mosque for Friday prayers. Palestinian women were raped during the attack, and homes were dynamited with people inside them.
Houla Massacre, 1948: 85 dead
Israeli soldiers forced 85 people into a house and then set it on fire. Afterwards, most of the terrified residents fled to Beirut. Of the 12,000 original residents of Houla, only 1,200 remained.

Salha Massacre, 1948: 105 dead
After residents of the village were forced into the mosque, the people were fired upon until not a single person remained alive.

Deir Yassin Massacre, 1948: 254 dead
The fact that the world agenda is controlled by the Western media, most of which is pro-Israeli, sometimes prevents events occurring within Israel from coming to light. But some incidents of such violence and cruelty have been documented in detail by international organizations. This is one of those incidents, and was carried out by the Irgun and Stern terrorist organizations.
On the night of April 9, 1948, the people of Deir Yassin awoke to the order "evacuate the village" coming from loudspeakers. Before they understood what was happening, they had been slaughtered. Subsequent Red Cross and United Nations investigations conducted at the scene showed that houses were first set on fire and that all people trying to escape the flames were shot dead. During the attack, pregnant women were bayoneted in their abdomens while still alive. The victims' organs were mutilated, and even children were beaten and raped. Throughout the Deir Yassin massacre, 52 children were maimed under the eyes of their own mothers, and then they were slain and their heads cut off. More than 60 women were killed and their bodies mutilated.35 One woman who escaped alive related the following atrocity that she had witnessed:
I saw a soldier grabbing my sister, Saliha al-Halabi, who was nine months pregnant. He pointed a machine gun at her neck, then emptied its contents into her body. Then he turned into a butcher, and grabbed a knife and ripped open her stomach to take out the slaughtered childe with his iniquitious Nazi knife.36
Not satisfied with just the massacre, the terrorists then rounded up all the women and girls who remained alive, removed all their clothes, put them in open cars, driving them naked through the streets of the Jewish section of Jerusalem. Jacques Reynier, the Red Cross representative of Palestine at the time, who saw the mutilated bodies during his visit to Deir Yassin the day after the attack, could only say: "The situation was horrible."37
During the course of the attack, 280 Muslims, among them women and children, were first paraded through the streets and then shot execution-style. Most of the girls had been raped before their execution, and the boys' genitals had been cut off.38
It should be pointed out that the terrorists who carried out this atrocity were not members of radical organizations acting outside the law or beyond the government's control; rather, they were controlled directly by the Israeli government. The Deir Yassin massacre was carried by the Irgun and Stern gangs, under the direct leadership of Menachem Begin, the future prime minister of Israel.
Begin described this inhuman operation, merely one example of the official policy of Israeli brutality, in these words: "The massacre was not only justified, but there would not have been a state of Israel without the 'victory' at Deir Yassin."39 Zionists used such attacks to terrorize the Palestinians and drive them from their land so that the immigrating Jews would have a place to settle. Israel Eldad, a famous Zionist leader, expressed this truth openly when he said: "Had it not been for Deir Yassin - half a million Arabs would be living in the state of Israel [in 1948]. The State of Israel would not have existed."40
The Zionists considered this type of ethnic cleansing as vital to establishing the state of Israel. Indeed these operations, which continued after the Deir Yassin attack, caused many Palestinians either to abandon their land and flee, or to suffer the same fate as the residents of Deir Yassin.

The Massacre at Qibya, 1953: 96 dead
Another Zionist attack designed to "encourage" the Palestinians to flee occurred in Qibya, a village of 2,000 on the Jordanian border. Later investigations at the scene conducted by quite a few observers clearly revealed the nature of this atrocity. The Qibya massacre, which occurred on October 13, 1953, consisted of demolishing 40 houses and murdering 96 civilians, a majority of them women and children. The "101" unit was led by Ariel Sharon, another future prime minister of Israel. Its approximately 600 soldiers first cordoned off the village and severed its contact with all other Arab villages. Entering it at 4:00 a.m., the Zionist terrorists began to systematically demolish houses and kill the residents. An unperturbed Sharon, who personally led the attack, made the following announcement after the massacre: "The orders were utterly clear: Qibya was to be an example to everyone."41
Dr. Yousif Haikal, Jordanian ambassador to the United Nations at that time, explained the massacre in his report to the Security Council:
The Israelis entered the village and systematically murdered all occupants of houses, using automatic weapons, grenades, and incendiaries; and dynamited houses over victims' heads... Forty houses, the village school, and a reservoir were destroyed. Twenty-two cattle were killed and six shops looted.42
The famous Catholic journal The Sign, published in the United States, also reported on the atrocities perpetrated during this attack. Editor Ralph Gorman explained his thoughts as follows: "Terror was a political weapon of the Nazis. But the Nazis never used terror in a more cold-blooded and wanton manner than the Israelis in the massacre at Kibya."43
Those who later came to the massacre site encountered horrifying images. Most of the dead bore bullet wounds to the back of the head, and many had been decapitated. Along with people who died beneath the wreckage of their houses, many innocent women and children also were brutally murdered.

Kafr Qasem Massacre, 1956:49 dead
The attack on Kafr Qasem, during which 49 innocent people, without regard to women or children, young or old, were brutally murdered, occurred on October 29, 1956. On this very day, Israel also launched its assault on Egypt. Israeli frontier guards went on security rounds at about 4:00 p.m., claiming that they were securing the borders. They told local officials in the border towns that curfew from that day onwards was to start from 5:00 p.m. instead of the usual 6:00 p.m. One of these towns was Kafr Qasem, near the Jewish settlement of Betah Tekfa.
The townspeople were informed of the new curfew only at 4:45 p.m. The local official told the Israeli soldiers that most of the townspeople worked outside the town and, as they would just be returning from work, they could not possibly be informed of this change. At the same time, Israeli soldiers started to erect a barricade at the town's entrance. Meanwhile, those working outside the town started returning home. The first group soon reached the border of the town. What follows is eyewitness Abdullah Samir Bedir's account of what happened next:
We reached the village entrance at about 4:55 p.m. We were suddenly confronted by a frontier unit consisting of 12 men and an officer, all occupying an army truck. We greeted the officer in Hebrew saying 'Shalom Katsin' which means 'Peace be unto you officer,' to which he gave no reply. He then asked us in Arabic: 'Are you happy?' and we said 'Yes.' The soldiers started stepping down from the truck and the officer ordered us to line up. Then he shouted to his soldier this order: 'Laktasour Otem,' which means 'Reap them!' The soldiers opened fire…44
Bedir, who escaped this terrifying ordeal only by playing dead, was certainly not the only witness of this brutality. From this moment on, Israeli soldiers stopped every vehicle attempting to enter the town and executed those inside. Among them were 15- and 16-year-old boys, young girls, and pregnant women. Those who heard the noise and went outside to see what was going on were shot for violating the curfew the moment they stepped outside. The Israeli soldiers were ordered not to arrest, but to execute, all who violated the curfew.
This incident, reported in full detail in official Israeli Parliament records, is one of the most striking examples of official Israeli policy.

Khan Yunis Massacre, 1956:275 dead
The Israeli soldiers who attacked the refugee camp in Khan Yunis murdered 275 people. UN officials who conducted an on-site investigation discovered victims who had been shot in the back of the head after their hands had been tied.45

The Massacre in Gaza City, 1956: 60 dead
In this attack, Zionists killed 60 people, including women and children.

Fighting back means fighting those who opress you. In the case of the Palestians this is arguably the Israeli military.No. The Israeli military is only the tool with which to accomplish the Jewish population's aspirations.
If someone attacks you with a weapon you will not fight the weapon but the one who wields it.
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Resistance to invasion means you target the invaders (the Israeli army). You dont target civilians. They have done you no wrong.Oh yes they have. The military only acts on behalf of the civilians.
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2000 - Clinton Barack proposals. In exchange for peace & giving up the claim of return, Israel would give Palestine all of the west bank, all of Gaza and all of East JerusalemThe proposal never included giving the Palestinians sovereignty, instead it was only offering low level "autonomy". Basically the rule of the hilltops of the central hill country, with no authority over infrastructure or water resources.
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1. If the 'civilians' willingly participate in the invasion and benefit from it and their benefit is the purpose of the invasion then I think it is a stretch to say they have done no wrong.

2. When the 'civilains' have all done military service and carry arms and a large portion are members of the reserve army, 'civilian' is a bit of a stretch.

attacking a hezbollah commanders house at night killing his 10 children is a legitimate and just military action.

attacking a nightclub full of off duty IDF men and women is morally disguisting.

its called flexible moralilty and is vital to being a zionist these days.

Who expelled who?



According to you.

Very few Palestinians were expelled. It is a fact of history that the Arabs made them leave to pave the way for their armies.

The Arabs on the other hand expelled a half million Jews and took every possession they owned. Israel took them in so there was no refugee problem. The Arabs decided to encage the Palestinians and breed them to be their cannon fodder against the Jews.

What do you think electing Hamas is? They did that while Israel was trying to make peace. Israel in fact answered the election of Hamas by electing a left wing government that made peace a priority. Reality sunk in this summer that it wouldn't happen with Hamas in power. The Palestinians have always rejected peace and sought genocide against the Jews. I think I have my reasons to dislike the Palestinians. When they elected Hamas, they made it clear that the vast majority of them support terrorism.

As for a Civil War, I HOPE it happens. What is better than a terrorist group fighting another? It saves Israel a whole lot of trouble. I hope Hamas and Fatah destroy each other. I'll pop the cork off of a bottle of Manishevitz and watch my enemies destroy each other. Perhaps a more peaceful faction can emerge from the ruins.

You have to figure in the political upside for this. On one hand it looks bad in the international community, but the Israelis havebeen pissed at Olmert for not being tougher in lebanon,so he might use this to show his "strength" in his leadership.

actually he will try to avoid any drastical move in order to survive as PM.

As for a Civil War, I HOPE it happens. What is better than a terrorist group fighting another? It saves Israel a whole lot of trouble. I hope Hamas and Fatah destroy each other. I'll pop the cork off of a bottle of Manishevitz and watch my enemies destroy each other. Perhaps a more peaceful faction can emerge from the ruins.
the only downside of this war is that the terrorists tend to kill many jewish in the process.

the only downside of this war is that the terrorists tend to kill many jewish in the process.

It will be pretty hard for them to kill Jews in Israel when they are busy fighting another terrorist group. I say bring this Civil War on. It will be good for Israel so long as Olmert has the intelligence to keep out of it.

the only downside of this war is that the terrorists tend to kill many jewish in the process.

this is bad why?

this is bad why?

Well, I wouldn't want either innocent Palestinians or Israelis to die as a result of any kind of civil war.

this is bad why?

Fuck off Nazi

Fuck off Nazi

Oh and your not a jewish Nazi, right:rolleyes:

Oh and your not a jewish Nazi, right:rolleyes:

This is coming from one of the biggest racists on the board huh.

It doesn't make me a Nazi if I hate a group which my people are at war with. By that definition, all Americans and Brits must've been Nazis when they hated Japan and Germany during WWII. I can tell you that my views on the Palestinians as a people would change if they rejected terror. Instead, they've embraced it.

It will be pretty hard for them to kill Jews in Israel when they are busy fighting another terrorist group. I say bring this Civil War on. It will be good for Israel so long as Olmert has the intelligence to keep out of it.

what the intifadas were if not power struggle between the palastinians when they tried to acheive as much kills they can, to get supporting of the populace?

what the intifadas were if not power struggle between the palastinians when they tried to acheive as much kills they can, to get supporting of the populace?

It was more of Arafat directing the killing upon his decision to reject the 2000 deal.

A full out war with Fatah and Hamas trying to destroy eachother would be great.

Besides, the Gaza and West Bank walls are making it VERY difficult for the Palestinians to attack Israel outside of the shitty Qassam rockets.

It was more of Arafat directing the killing upon his decision to reject the 2000 deal.

A full out war with Fatah and Hamas trying to destroy eachother would be great.

Besides, the Gaza and West Bank walls are making it VERY difficult for the Palestinians to attack Israel outside of the shitty Qassam rockets.

I heard they smuggle in more advanced weaponary, as hizbulla had in lebanon.

This is coming from one of the biggest racists on the board huh.

It doesn't make me a Nazi if I hate a group which my people are at war with. By that definition, all Americans and Brits must've been Nazis when they hated Japan and Germany during WWII. I can tell you that my views on the Palestinians as a people would change if they rejected terror. Instead, they've embraced it.

1st I dont hate Japan or Germany for what they did in WW2. 2nd its not terror genius, its resistance. Face it, you hate Arabs, because they are Arab. And I'm not a racist.

1st I dont hate Japan or Germany for what they did in WW2. 2nd its not terror genius, its resistance. Face it, you hate Arabs, because they are Arab. And I'm not a racist.

I'm not saying right now. I'm saying that in WWII, EVERYONE hated the countries that they were at war with. Palestine is at war with my people. It is 100% OK to hate your enemy. I'm not a politically correct weenie who abides by the "love thy enemy bullshit." War is war and its OK to hate your enemy, especially if their goal is genocide of your people.

I never said I hate Arabs. Since when did Palestinians become all Arabs.

You obviously have no reading comprehension. Go back and smack your 4th grade teacher. He/she did a horrible job.

I don't think targetting civilians is resistance. Resistance would be targetting military installations.

I heard they smuggle in more advanced weaponary, as hizbulla had in lebanon.

They obviously haven't been able to use it. Israel has isolated the Hamas controlled areas. They can't fly or ship anything in without Israel knowing. And getting the weapons into Israel is even harder with the wall.

The West Bank wall is the greatest thing for Israel. THey are just shutting themselves off from the Palestinians and telling them to go fuck themselves. I can guarantee you that Egypt and Jordan won't do anything to help the Palestinians once Israel cuts them off. The Joradanians and Egyptians hate them almost as much as the Israelis.

They obviously haven't been able to use it. Israel has isolated the Hamas controlled areas. They can't fly or ship anything in without Israel knowing. And getting the weapons into Israel is even harder with the wall.

The West Bank wall is the greatest thing for Israel. THey are just shutting themselves off from the Palestinians and telling them to go fuck themselves. I can guarantee you that Egypt and Jordan won't do anything to help the Palestinians once Israel cuts them off. The Joradanians and Egyptians hate them almost as much as the Israelis.

only in israel, like always this project is still half-finished and delayed. even the airport ben-gurion 2000 was opened in 2004.

1st I dont hate Japan or Germany for what they did in WW2. 2nd its not terror genius, its resistance. Face it, you hate Arabs, because they are Arab. And I'm not a racist.
the only downside of this war is that the terrorists tend to kill many jewish in the process.

this is bad why?

You seem to enjoy the idea of innocent jews being slaughtered, call me crazy but that does sound somewhat anti-semitic. Anti-semitism is the hatred of the jewish race, hence you are a racist.

I hate to say this but after thinking about it a civil war may be the ONLY way to get peace and to get rid of the hard line haters who will NEVER accept peace unless they impose it . Of course thats if the haaters do not win the war..then the problem gets solved by the world...and Isreal one way or another...and it wont be pretty.

I try to feel bad for the Palestinians and then the reallty of them VOTING in this government smacks me in the face.

I'm not saying right now. I'm saying that in WWII, EVERYONE hated the countries that they were at war with. Palestine is at war with my people. It is 100% OK to hate your enemy. I'm not a politically correct weenie who abides by the "love thy enemy bullshit." War is war and its OK to hate your enemy, especially if their goal is genocide of your people.
Regardless of whether you or I think this is right or wrong, the Palestinian people probably think the same of the Israelis, and see Israeli colonisation as an attempt to exterminate the Palestinian people.

I don't think targetting civilians is resistance. Resistance would be targetting military installations.
As low and disgusting as it is, I still think it counts as some form of resistance from a Palestinian POV, especially considering there are military targets too, such as the soldier kidnapped by Gaza Islamists.

Regardless of whether you or I think this is right or wrong, the Palestinian people probably think the same of the Israelis, and see Israeli colonisation as an attempt to exterminate the Palestinian people.


As low and disgusting as it is, I still think it counts as some form of resistance from a Palestinian POV, especially considering there are military targets too, such as the soldier kidnapped by Gaza Islamists.

And this is relevant to a Palestinian civil war how ?

You seem to enjoy the idea of innocent jews being slaughtered, call me crazy but that does sound somewhat anti-semitic. Anti-semitism is the hatred of the jewish race, hence you are a racist.

wow. your the 1st one ever to call me an anti-semite:rolleyes: congrats.

And this is relevant to a Palestinian civil war how ?

Just responding to what IDF said in his post. Which, I might add, is little to do with a Palestinian civil war.

wow. your the 1st one ever to call me an anti-semite:rolleyes: congrats.

So you admit to being a racist then?

Just responding to what IDF said in his post. Which, I might add, is little to do with a Palestinian civil war.


Dont mind me I am riddled with ADD and forgot how threads evolve in this place....That and the server sucks...I was just responding to a post and came back and thought I was in the wrong thread ...like four post showed up after mine and the whole conversation changed..:D

So you admit to being a racist then?

I admit you can call me whatever you want and its not going to bother me.

2000 - Clinton Barack proposals. In exchange for peace & giving up the claim of return, Israel would give Palestine all of the west bank, all of Gaza and all of East Jerusalem
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Was it not Israel who left the last talks?


And of course we have your word for that? How about some evidence.

How about the expulsions of 1947?

Fighting back means fighting those who opress you. In the case of the Palestians this is arguably the Isralie millitary. If the Palestinian extremists limited their attacks to just millitary targets, their cause would be legitmate. But they dont. They blow up shoping centres, night clubs, marketplaces, busy streets etc. Places where lots of civilians are. Civilians are not legitimate targets. The fighting back against the Germans in WW2 was limited to the German millitary/industrial capacities. We did not intentionally go out of our way to bomb civilian centres.

Israel limits itself to military targets when?

As regards WWII - Dresden, Hamburg, the fire bombing of Tokyo and two a-bombs.


Very few Palestinians were expelled. It is a fact of history that the Arabs made them leave to pave the way for their armies.

Its neither a fact, nor History. I suggest you read the "Birth of the Palestinian refugee problem" by Benny Morris.

The Arabs decided to encage the Palestinians and breed them .

"..like cockroaches"? Getting a bit frothy at the mouth there with the Rhetoric are we?

I can tell you that my views on the Palestinians as a people would change if they rejected terror. Instead, they've embraced it..

Well, maybe if the IDF packed up, fucked off and took its fanatic settler buddies over the border with it when it was going, they would reject "terror", or 'liberation struggle' as its more commonly called.


It was more of Arafat directing the killing upon his decision to reject the 2000 deal...

Who left the talks prior to the election of Sharon? Not the Arab side...who refused to go back to the table? Not the Arab side...


I heard they smuggle in more advanced weaponary, as hizbulla had in lebanon.
...

How? Will somebody beam it in? And they wouldnt have the training to use it either. They're just a bunch of civillians on reservations - they havent a hope, brave though many of them might be.

As for a Civil War, I HOPE it happens. What is better than a terrorist group fighting another? It saves Israel a whole lot of trouble. I hope Hamas and Fatah destroy each other. I'll pop the cork off of a bottle of Manishevitz and watch my enemies destroy each other. Perhaps a more peaceful faction can emerge from the ruins.

If every single Palestinian was a terrorist like you're inferring, you'd think they'd have a more cohesive goal of going after The Enemy instead of each other. When desperate Palestinians deep in shit as it are caught celebrating 9-11 it's a crime against humanity, but celebrating the potential demise of them is a cause for a party?

I find it ironic that Israel has banned Kahane Chai considering if you're a sample of their opinion it's not really different. I guess Yaacov Perrin's words are still embedded deep in the hearts and minds of Tel Aviv:

A million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.

1) There are no good guys in the Israel-arab conflicts, just bastards with different hats (Thanks for the inspiration, Lunatic Goofballs :) )

2) A civil war would not be good for Israel. Stability would.

1) There are no good guys in the Israel-arab conflicts, just bastards with different hats (Thanks for the inspiration, Lunatic Goofballs :) )

2) A civil war would not be good for Israel. Stability would.


I dont think they call them hats...more like hoods. Kafka's or something..:D

I dont think they call them hats...more like hoods. Kafka's or something..:D

Well, allow me to quote the original post:
A: Hello again.

B: Hello.

A: Do you like my hat?

B: No, I do not like your hat.

A: Goodbye again.

B: Goodbye.Yes, that is normal behavior.

But these people are going:

A: Hello again.

B: Hello.

A: Do you like my hat?

B: DIE INFIDEL! *KABOOM!*

or

A: Hello again.

B: Hello.

A: Do you like my hat?

B: No, I don't like your hat. *Calls in an air strike*

*KABOOM!*

This is not normal behavior an I suspect the hats have somethng to do with it. *nod*

;) :D