NationStates Jolt Archive

Apparently the earlier reports were wrong and China is saying that North Korea is not apologetic for their actions and remains feisty. They have stopped their Nuclear tests and seem to be thinking things over, but Kim Jong Il has not apologized to China or anyone for his actions.

The news of the apology seems to have first come out of South Korea. That country really needs to get its act together, they seem too soft on and scared of their neighbors to the north. Japan, Taiwan and even China have the right approach.

South Korea, America, the UN and the entire region need to remain vigilant.

http://voanews.com/english/2006-10-24-voa11.cfm

China Says North Korea Did Not Apologize for Nuclear Tests
By Luis Ramirez
Beijing
24 October 2006

Ramirez report - Download 316K
Listen to Ramirez report


China is denying South Korean news reports last week that said North Korean leader Kim Jong Il expressed regret for carrying out a nuclear test on October 9.


Kim Jong Il
The reports said Kim Jong Il had made the remarks to Chinese envoy Tang Jiaxuan, who visited Pyongyang last week to deliver a message from President Hu Jintao.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao spoke to reporters at a regular briefing Tuesday.

"The reports are certainly not accurate. I have not heard any information that Kim Jong Il apologized," he said.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who met with envoy Tang in Beijing following his visit Pyongyang, earlier cast doubt on the reports. Rice said Tang did not tell her that Kim Jong Il had either apologized for the October 9 nuclear test or said that he would not ever test again.

Chinese government spokesman Liu suggests there is no guarantee that Kim will stop the tests.

"He (Kim) also indicated that the North Korean side has no plans to carry out a second nuclear test," the spokesman said. "But, if foreign influences exert more pressure or exert unfair pressure, North Korea could possibly take further measures."

Pyongyang has responded angrily to United Nations sanctions that ban some trade with North Korea and prohibit the transfer of weapons-related items to and from the country.

The United States, China, Japan, South Korea and Russia are trying to persuade North Korea to return to talks on ending its nuclear programs. Pyongyang has refused to do so for the past year because of financial sanctions the U.S. has imposed on some North Korean enterprises suspected of involvement in crimes such as money laundering and counterfeiting.

Chinese officials on Tuesday had no information on a report in a South Korean newspaper that said Beijing police last month arrested two ethnic Korean men on charges of trying to sell nearly one kilogram of enriched uranium.

The report did not say how enriched the uranium was. Only highly enriched uranium can be used to make bombs. The newspaper said officials are investigating the origin of the uranium, and quoted sources as saying North Korea had not been ruled out as a possible source.

One of the greatest concerns the United States and other countries have is that North Korea will try to sell nuclear weapons or technology to other countries or to terrorist groups.

The U.S.-led Proliferation Security Initiative aims to block shipments of weapons of mass destruction by North Korea. The latest United Nations sanctions against Pyongyang bar it from shipping most goods that can be used in weapons of mass destruction.

You know, we could end this whole thing with just one little missile.

Well, the U.S government said that the apology was "a phony" because it wasn't verified.

Also, N. Korea would get slaughtered by the countries teaming up against it (everybody in the U.N) without any more than 100 non-N. Korean troops dying.

Why does this matter? NK didn't detonate a nuclear weapon, despite their claims.

Why does this matter? NK didn't detonate a nuclear weapon, despite their claims.

That because they know what will happen if they do.

World Wide Suicide...

This cartoon seemed appropriate...

http://www.cagle.com/working/061013/ramirez.jpg

Japan is scared. South Korea is not.

If South Korea were scared, it would be advancing a far harder line; it has powerful allies.

I can't wait until Japan rearms and goes nuclear and the whole region shits it's collective pants.

North Korea "didn't apologize" but didn't set off a second nuke test either.

Anyone else thinks this is a face-saver cooked up between China and The Original Dear Leader?

Chinese officials on Tuesday had no information on a report in a South Korean newspaper that said Beijing police last month arrested two ethnic Korean men on charges of trying to sell nearly one kilogram of enriched uranium.


One Jihadist = one dead city .

North Korea "didn't apologize" but didn't set off a second nuke test either.

Anyone else thinks this is a face-saver cooked up between China and The Original Dear Leader?

I think he didn't do the second one because of,

A. waiting till everything cools down and then do the second one.

B. Realize how screwed he would be if he did do the second one.

Kim is crazy, but not stupid.

Kim is crazy, but not stupid.

"Not Stupid" also includes "not making China look like a bunch of dumbfucks by setting off a second nuke test" especially since China is the one superpower that's keeping ODL (Original Dear Leader) comfy in Pyongyang with trade and supply shipments. While China doesn't want NK to collapse, it doesn't care much for looking like jackasses while SK, Japan and almost every other Asian country gain legitimate excuses to start nuking up either.

Were you expecting North Korea to actually apologise or something?

Were you expecting North Korea to actually apologise or something?

If China demands one from Kim, they'll get one. I say this was a face-saver they both cooked up, so ODL doesn't look like a neutered bitch.

North Korea didn't apologize? Sure they did (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/UnNews:North_Korea_apologizes_for_blowing_up_China)!

If China demands one from Kim, they'll get one. I say this was a face-saver they both cooked up, so ODL doesn't look like a neutered bitch.

I doubt they would want anything public from Kim, I think they would be a little more subtle than that, although that would possibly change if NK did something stupider, like a second bomb.

Why should they apologize? As far as I remember, everyone (except GuysWeDontLike) is permitted to conduct nuclear tests.

Even if they apologize, it would look like if one took out the gun, pointed it in your face, shot in the air above your shoulder, put it back and said "I'm sorry".

North Korea didn't apologize? Sure they did (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/UnNews:North_Korea_apologizes_for_blowing_up_China)!





:D :D :D

Why should they apologize? As far as I remember, everyone (except GuysWeDontLike) is permitted to conduct nuclear tests.

Even if they apologize, it would look like if one took out the gun, pointed it in your face, shot in the air above your shoulder, put it back and said "I'm sorry".

The world does not want them to have nukes, specifically their leader. if they do successfully test a nuke, then Japan, Taiwan and South Korea will go Nuclear which will send China into a fit. The region will become very unstable, very fast.

North Korea didn't apologize? Sure they did (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/UnNews:North_Korea_apologizes_for_blowing_up_China)!

Ahh, good 'ole Uncyclopedia.

die korea:mp5:

Apparently the earlier reports were wrong... LOL.. of course they were false reports..

Only a stupid retard would expect them to apologize..

and.. when Brazil.. Iran.. Saudi-Arabia or Japan do test their Nukes... do not expect them to apologize either.

LOL.. of course they were false reports..

Only a stupid retard would expect them to apologize..

and.. when Brazil.. Iran.. Saudi-Arabia or Japan do test their Nukes... do not expect them to apologize either.


The reports came out after China openly discussed regime change in N. Korea. The idea of them apologizing was definitely hard to swallow but when faced with a possible Chinese coup it didn't seem so far fetched.

and "stupid retard"? as opposed to a "smart genius"? a bit redundant there.

Apparently the earlier reports were wrong and China is saying that North Korea is not apologetic for their actions and remains feisty. They have stopped their Nuclear tests and seem to be thinking things over, but Kim Jong Il has not apologized to China or anyone for his actions.

The news of the apology seems to have first come out of South Korea. That country really needs to get its act together, they seem too soft on and scared of their neighbors to the north. Japan, Taiwan and even China have the right approach.

South Korea, America, the UN and the entire region need to remain vigilant.

http://voanews.com/english/2006-10-24-voa11.cfm
I just love your source:

The Voice of America, which first went on the air in 1942, is a multimedia international broadcasting service funded by the U.S. government through the Broadcasting Board of Governors.

Do you have a more unbiased source?

I just love your source:

The Voice of America, which first went on the air in 1942, is a multimedia international broadcasting service funded by the U.S. government through the Broadcasting Board of Governors.

Do you have a more unbiased source?

Did you even read the article?

http://www.playfuls.com/news_10_2050-China-North-Korea-Not-Planning-New-Test-But-Did-Not-Apologize.html

http://www.wboc.com/Global/story.asp?S=5579932&nav=MXEFM7m7

http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=7564

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/roundups/article_1214257.php/News_Roundup


Happy Now?


Remember, this is what a Chinese Foreign Ministry official said. Then again, you are probably more suspicious of the American Government than you are of a member of the Chinese Government, which is known for its transparancy. ;)

The news of the apology seems to have first come out of South Korea. That country really needs to get its act together, they seem too soft on and scared of their neighbors to the north.
You know, they are the same people. Many have family across the border, and none of them have an interest in seeing their country turned into a battlefield.

Not to mention that even South Koreans ultimately want to see some sort of reunification, and that will always be in the back of their minds - especially considering how difficult it was to get East Germany reintegrated (or not, whatever the case may be). It would be much more difficult still to do the same with North Korea.

I can't wait until Japan rearms and goes nuclear and the whole region shits it's collective pants.
Not. Going. To. Happen.

Not. Going. To. Happen.

UNLESS Japan honestly believes it will be attacked. Even the most die-hard pro-pacifism Japanese politicians have said Japan has a right to defend itself.

And they could probably be bringing out Gen-2 nukes in a matter of months if they felt that's what they needed.

You know, we could end this whole world with just one little missile.
Fixed ;)

The world does not want them to have nukes, specifically their leader. if they do successfully test a nuke, then Japan, Taiwan and South Korea will go Nuclear which will send China into a fit. The region will become very unstable, very fast.

I also think it would be more comfortable if only two countries had nukes, one to influence everyone, another a smal "safety valve" arsenal to prevent the first one from nuking others outright. Heck, it would be even more comfortable if there were no nukes, only gunpowder and oil, each under full control of one nation. After all, burning oil doesn't do much good to the ecology, as well as shooting.

The reports came out ....just who is the original "reporter"

So is it ok if we kill them all now ? Or do we still have to wait ?

The world does not want them to have nukes..."the World"???

and you know this how?

If you give the World the choice to magically vanish either (only one choice) the US Nukes or the Korean Nukes.. Whose Nukes do you think "the World's" will vanish.. if the opportunity comes??

or.. If you give the World the choice to magically vanish either (only one choice) the Israeli Nukes or the Korean Nukes.. Whose Nukes do you think "the World's" will rid off ??

So is it ok if we kill them all now ? Or do we still have to wait ?you dont have to wait..
not really.

just enlist.. you'll start killing fairly soon.

"the World"???

and you know this how?

If you give the World the choice to magically vanish either (only one choice) the US Nukes or the Korean Nukes.. Whose Nukes do you think "the World's" will vanish.. if the opportunity comes??

or.. If you give the World the choice to magically vanish either (only one choice) the Israeli Nukes or the Korean Nukes.. Whose Nukes do you think "the World's" will rid off ??

Honestly? The Korean ones. The US has had Nukes for 51 years, Israel about 30. They've both shown they can possess them responsibly, and in one case, use them responsibly.

The terms "responsibility" and "North Korea" don't belong in the same sentence, and anyone with half a brain outside of NK can see that.

Honestly? The Korean ones.I hope you realize when I say "the World".. I am not talking only about the US pop.

...
The terms "responsibility" and "North Korea" don't belong in the same sentence, and anyone with half a brain outside of NK can see that. likewise..

The terms "responsibility" and "BUSH" don't belong in the same sentence, and anyone with half a brain outside the War Party can see that.

The World will vanish the US Nukes first.. because they are the most dangerous ones.

and US nukes are more likely to be used in the future.

I hope you realize when I say "the World".. I am not talking only about the US pop.

Dude, I live in Australia. We're a lot more in tune with the rest of the planet than my insular American countrymen - or come to that, the insular Europeans in general. Most of the world wants things, sane, safe and stable. Of the three countries you picked, NK under Kim Jong Il is WAY the farthest outside all three.

likewise..

The terms "responsibility" and "BUSH" don't belong in the same sentence, and anyone with half a brain outside the War Party can see that.

The World will vanish the US Nukes first.. because they are the most dangerous ones.

and US nukes are more likely to be used in the future.

Now, I really can't let you just get away with a statement like that. Make your case.

Dude, I live in Australia. We're a lot more in tune with the rest of the planet than my insular American countrymen - or come to that, the insular Europeans in general.Australia is not more "in tune" than Europe.

Australia is not more "in tune" than Europe.

Oh, hell yeah it is! Europe's nearly as blind as the US is in a lot of areas. You think the rest of the planet doesn't see the hypocrisy of EU trade policies that are just as restrictive as the US ones they're supposed to "fight"? Or that Europe only gets involved in wars and conflicts that matter to them, just like the US?
The EU is just the US with a socialist tint.

Now, I really can't let you just get away with a statement like that.really?
...
Make your case.Korea cannot expect to use nukes without being totally destroyed.

US have already used Nukes to convince another country to surrender.. and there was no consequence for US.

really?
...
Korea cannot expect to use nukes without being totally destroyed.

the US has already used Nukes to convince another coutry to surrender.. and there was no consequence for the US.

Unconvincing. The situation in 1945 was one of A) Monopoly and B) extreme situation. Further, there was no negative political or moral consequence to the use of nukes in 1945, wheras there's plenty such today. The US is wedded to non-proliferation, for one - a policy I personally believe to be ultimately futile, but which would be utterly destroyed by any use of Nuclear Weapons on the US's part, save in self-defence.

North Korea (please note the "North" part, the ROK does not want to be tarred with the same brush) is not, as a nation, sane. Deterrance works only against a sane opponent.

Why does this matter? NK didn't detonate a nuclear weapon, despite their claims.

The denotation of a nuke was confirmed by US intellegence... all be it a weak nuke (less then 1 kiloton)

Deterrance works only against a sane opponent.propaganda works this way..

We will usually float "reports" about the "opponent" leaders being evil and/or not-so-sane.

on top of that we will usually float "reports" about them being impotent/sexually-maniatic/freudian-complexes and/or having sexually transmited decases.. etc etc.

and sometimes we will float report about them apologizing for developing weapons..

The average joe will swallow all the media propaganda. I expect NSG members to be a bit better.

propaganda works this way..

We will usually float "reports" about the "opponent" leaders being evil and/or not-so-sane.

on top of that we will usually float "reports" about them being impotent/sexually-maniatic/freudian-complexes and/or having sexually transmited decases.. etc etc.

and sometimes we will float report about them apologizing for developing weapons..

The average joe will swallow all the media propaganda. I expect NSG members to be a bit better.

Actually, I did my dissertation on the history of propaganda. Not that you'd have any way of knowing that, of course.

Please note I didn't say Kim Jong Il isn't sane. I suspect he is, from an objective standpoint - he's probably pretty normal for his society.

But that's the problem. North Korea's society is sick. I really can't come to any other conclusion about a nation that allows thousands to millions of it's people to starve to death for no reason whatsoever. I mean, it's one thing to do that sort of thing for a purpose - the Stalin Famines in the Ukraine, for instance - evil, yes, but understandable, a human evil. But to allow the deaths of productive citizens, when it was entirely preventable, speaks of a culture and government that is either uncaring to the point of sociopathy, or actively unsane.

US propaganda aside, the information we can get out of NK indicates a dangerously unbalanced nation.

You know, we could end this whole thing with just one little missile.

Or, we could better think through the implications of our actions in the international sphere and refrain from starting a war with China. At the very least, we could refrain from losing China as an ally against North Korea. It's amazing how quickly setting off a nuclear holocaust right on someone's border will mess things up like that. Taiwan probably won't be to happy about it either, when China feels the need to more forcefully assert its regional powers against the United States (besides the concequences for South Korea and Japan).

But hey, chucking bombs requires less effort, I suppose. It's worked wonders in Iraq...

or we could just nuke the snot out of everyone

Not. Going. To. Happen.


My understanding is that Japan has its own sizable collection of plutonium and other necessary materials, as by-products of its nuclear power facilities, as well as other technologies like multiple stage rockets, which means that Japan could become a nuclear power very quickly. Yes, pacifist and anti-nuclear (weapons) sentiments are very strong in Japan, however, being without when the rest of the region has is the lowest depth of irrationality regardless of ideologies.

Actually, I did my dissertation on the history of propaganda. Not that you'd have any way of knowing that, of course.

Please note I didn't say Kim Jong Il isn't sane. I suspect he is, from an objective standpoint - he's probably pretty normal for his society.

But that's the problem. North Korea's society is sick. I really can't come to any other conclusion about a nation that allows thousands to millions of it's people to starve to death for no reason whatsoever. I mean, it's one thing to do that sort of thing for a purpose - the Stalin Famines in the Ukraine, for instance - evil, yes, but understandable, a human evil. But to allow the deaths of productive citizens, when it was entirely preventable, speaks of a culture and government that is either uncaring to the point of sociopathy, or actively unsane.
... hmm, have you ever lived outside Australia?

US propaganda aside, the information we can get out of NK indicates a dangerously unbalanced nation. US propaganda is onmi-present in english speaking media.

this is unfair to you.
Me? I have the luxury of speaking 2 other languages. (I have acces to SA and french media)

your rite... most news in english is direct from uncle sams mouth.

you should watch the german news programmes about the iraq war, for example

... hmm, have you ever lived outside Australia?


Oh, yes. Born US, grew up travelling around the world, joined Marines, more travelling (mostly Europe), back to US for my college work. I've lived in Aus for, oh, almost 15 years.



Me? I have the luxury of speaking 2 other languages. (I have acces to SA and french media)

Lucky sonofab****. I can't seem to learn other languages - not even immersion helps. I have a little (execrable) French, slightly less Spanish and German.

likewise..

The terms "responsibility" and "BUSH" don't belong in the same sentence, and anyone with half a brain outside the War Party can see that.

The World will vanish the US Nukes first.. because they are the most dangerous ones.

and US nukes are more likely to be used in the future.

so this thread is now being twisted into an anti-US/anti-Bush thread? uh huh.

As for Bush and Nukes, he has never even suggested their use. Reagan did in regards to the cold war, his father did in response to Hussein using chemical weapons, Clinton even did in regards to hussein but George W Bush never has.

and "the world" means every country but North Korea. besides the UN vote of 15-0 against N. Korea there are the expressed concerns of the region itself as well as the Western world. if you know of any country who actually wants (and have proof of this) North Korea to have nukes, please enlighten us. I don't even think Iran and Venezuela trust those guys.

but continue with the Red Herring; Bush is Evil, America is the real danger, the party of war...etc.

US propaganda is onmi-present in english speaking media.



You obviously do not watch the CBC or BBC very much.

You obviously do not watch the CBC or BBC very much.CBC and BBC cannot afford to have house reporters all over Iraq/Afghanistan/China/Koreas/Russia.. so (more often than not) they have to rely on the in-bedded reporters.

all in all.. BBC reporters are less than 1%.. and CBC is even less.. They simply do not have (US sized) comparable budgets.

CBC and BBC cannot afford to have house reporters all over Iraq/Afghanistan/China/Koreas/Russia.. so (more often than not) they have to rely on the in-bedded reporters.

all in all.. BBC reporters are less than 1%.. and CBC is even less.. They simply do not have (US sized) comparable budgets.

True enough, unfortunately. The Australian news media is in a similar fix.

Doesn't stop 'em being pretty anti-US at times, though.