NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6079428.stm


Note: This is not meant to be a "France is teh sux0rz!!!11" thread, so if you're going to bash France without contributing anything of value, I'm going to have to ask you not to post. As for the article itself...thoughts? Does this what this guy has to say have merit?

i'll post more in a minute, but there have always been whispers of France's neglect.

If true, that is rather disturbing.

Its going to have to be more specific- did they actually take part in the genocide or turn a blind eye toward it ?
Or complicit in allowing it to go on when they could have stopped it and claim that it didnt happen?

The entire situation is a disgraceful tragedy, whatever the case.

It seems difficult to believe. If there's any truth, though, I hope there are severe consequences.

It's ambiguous whether the accusation is against a few French soldiers possibly acting on their own, or the French government and military as a whole. If the latter, the obvious question would be: Why? What is the (alleged) reason for France's criminal behaviour?

It seems difficult to believe. If there's any truth, though, I hope there are severe consequences.

It's ambiguous whether the accusation is against a few French soldiers possibly acting on their own, or the French government and military as a whole. If the latter, the obvious question would be: Why? What is the (alleged) reason for France's criminal behaviour?

Yeah- its a little too vague, too little detail right now, to start forming my opinion.

Another shameful history for France.

I've heard about that a few years ago, but most of the french ignore all about it. I'm pretty sure the french government is to be blamed, but please, the french as a people are not guilty of this. They don't even know, and those who do feel shameful but can't do anything, unless they want to be branded as liars and thrown in jail. The Prince by Machiavel is certainly a best-seller among french politicians.

Ariddia : tu te souviens de Karl Zero ? il avait fait diffuser en son temps un reportage à ce sujet, qui semblait assez clair. Je me demande si il peut être retrouvé sur le net ...

It seems difficult to believe. If there's any truth, though, I hope there are severe consequences.

It's ambiguous whether the accusation is against a few French soldiers possibly acting on their own, or the French government and military as a whole. If the latter, the obvious question would be: Why? What is the (alleged) reason for France's criminal behaviour?

It is difficult to believe but the French did help put down RPF in the 90's. I am not saying that France is guilty of this but they had already supported the Hutus in Kigali not too long before.Anyway wiki has a pretty good article on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Turquoise

Another shameful history for France.

I've heard about that a few years ago, but most of the french ignore all about this. I'm pretty sure the french government is to be blamed, but please, the french as a people are not guilty of this. They don't even know, and those who do feel shameful but can't do anything, unless they want to be branded as liars and thrown in jail. The Prince by Machiavel is certainly a best-seller among french politicians.

If French politicians read Machiavelli, I honestly doubt anything like this, if true, would have happened.

If [deleted] politicians read [deleted]

thats more like it....

This sounds pretty ridiculous to me. If anything we should be blaming the U.N. for its inaction in Rwanda.

If French politicians read Machiavelli, I honestly doubt anything like this, if true, would have happened.

What I mean is that if you contest the french government with too much passion, you'll have problems quite quickly, but they'll always find "good reasons" to do so. And you'll be branded as a fool that nobody with brain should listen.:mad:

Wow, I really hope this isn't true. Are there any other sources that have made the claim?

Wow, I really hope this isn't true. Are there any other sources that have made the claim?

The crucial consequence of the French bias towards the Hutus was that Operation Turquoise did not disarm the Hutus, and thus the ZHS were never demilitarized. This was to have serious consequences for the protection of these areas, since the 1.2 million people in the ZHS were fed and sheltered but were not protected. Extremist Hutu militia members who were still armed operated in the zones, intimidating moderate Hutus and killing Tutsis.6 These armed activities led the camps to be considered as centers of hostility by the Tutsi government,7 greatly eroding the government’s support for the ZHS because they were evidently not neutral.
Operation Turquoise did have some humanitarian benefits. First, it managed to stop the refugee flow to neighboring Zaire, which could have been highly destabilizing. It did
protect the few Tutsis still left in the zone, and it is generally estimated that it protected 13,000-14,000 people.8 The presence of French troops made feasible the delivery of humanitarian assistance. However, as France withdrew from Rwanda in late August 1994 and UNAMIR forces replaced Operation Turquoise, the Rwandan government became increasingly fearful that the ZHS were used as a conduit for arms and the protective regime greatly deteriorated.
By December 1994, the Kibeho camp “appeared to be a center of hostility and a threat to internal security.”9 The Rwandan authorities feared the military buildup in the ZHS, and demanded that they should be closed in April 1995. UNAMIR launched ‘Operation Hope’ in coordination with the Rwandan government in order to disarm Kibeho, which was relatively successful, yet by March there were still 120,000 IDPs in Kibeho and the camp was still seen as a threat by the government.10 Many IDPs refused to return voluntarily, either for reasons of security or because they were dependent on living conditions provided in the camps. On April 17 1995 the Rwandese Patriotic Army (RPA)

http://www.beyondintractability.org/documents/Safe_Havens-Rwanda.pdf

MAybe this is what there pissed about.

What I mean is that if you contest the french government with too much passion, you'll have problems quite quickly, but they'll always find "good reasons" to do so. And you'll be branded as a fool that nobody with brain should listen.:mad:

Whereas in other certain countries in the current climate, doing that is called 'treason'. Or at best 'unpatriotic'.

It's ambiguous whether the accusation is against a few French soldiers possibly acting on their own, or the French government and military as a whole. If the latter, the obvious question would be: Why? What is the (alleged) reason for France's criminal behaviour?

Seconded/Thirded, but hey.... that won't stop a lot of people from jumping on the 'let's bash XYZ' bandwagon.

If its true, I really dont care. Good for france for doing what they see is best to make themselves better.

How is this article vague?

France played an active role in Rwanda's 1994 genocide.

French involvement stemmed from concerns about its diminishing influence in Africa.

It is hearing from 25 survivors of the genocide, who claim to have witnessed French involvement.

"France has not expressed regret," AFP quotes Mr Bihozagara as saying during his three-hour testimony.

He added that even after the genocide the French government had not apprehended genocide suspects living in France.

French soldiers provided escape routes to militia escaping to the Democratic Republic of Congo after the massacres.

But Rwanda says the soldiers allowed Hutu extremists to enter Tutsi camps.

A French military court is conducting a separate investigation into claims that French soldiers played a part in the genocide.

It seems like both the French militatry and the French Government is involved.

Well, it is vague because there aren't any real proofs in the article.

If it was true - it would be terrible. But I don't belive everything you can read in the media without some really good proofs.

So what proof is there that France actively or passivly participated in genocide ?

I see allegations...but I also see allegations that Elvis is still alive.

What proof is there ? AnY credible witness ? Is it even a credible allegation ?

Or is someone pissed off the French did not overstep the boundries they were given as a peacekeeping force and do more ?


It says its being investigated....so whats wrong with waiting until something is know aside from an allegation ?


Guilty until proven innocent..typical for Nation States forum .