NationStates Jolt Archive

In light of the bush saying that he was changing the tactics on the ground in iraq *cough*bullshit*cough* I was just wondering how many people actually think about what they would do if they were in the shoes of an iraqi insurgency leader. What would your goals be? What would you do to attain those goals? This is an excersise that i like to do to get a better understanding of my enemy.

If i was say, Zaqawi's successor, my goals would be to a) take power from the gov't, b) get coalition forces out, and c) gain as much position to take power after coalition forces leave. Now i look at how i would attain those goals.

a) I would focus my efforts on a propaganda campaign about the evils of democracy, I would show that the IA and IP are not making progress by "capturing" a city every once in a while knowing that i didn't have to make a show of force for more than an hour or two. I would also make threats against loyal politicians to disway them from running for office.

b) I would make sure that no matter what, there was a constant flow of dead americans w/ spikes in casualties no matter what the costs are to the insurgency as a whole. I would also make sure to make every death known to the american public. Finally, i would conduct a propaganda campaign to get the iraqi population as a whole against coalition forces.

c) I would bribe and threaten politicians to be in the cahoots w/ insurgents and i would build a loyal force that would be able to capture much of the country once coalition forces leave.

Now i look at how coalition forces could deter these goals and how they are doing right now.

a)In this category, U.S. forces do not appear to be doing so great largely b/c there is great pressure to not get as involved as is needed in iraqi governmental affairs. Recently the mahdi militia did "capture" a city which did much to illegitamize the iraqi government. Even though there was nothing tangible to the attack, it did have a significant mental affect. We need much more security for politicians and we need to hold iraqi forces to a higher standard.

b) In this category, we were doing good until this month which is one of those spikes. Our medical personel have done an extremely good job of keeping the mortality rate, which is seen as a great evil by the public, down. We have trained our forces to the level where, thought there are lapses, we can operate under fire w/o taking mass casualties. We need some method to counter that 5% of IED's that get by our personel.

c) It can't really be said wether iraqi politicians are in cahoots w/ the insurgency but it can be said that the insurgency is likely capable of holding control of key areas from iraqi forces w/o coalition assistance. That is one reason that we can't leave iraq at this moment. We need to train iraqi forces in a conventional role also.

In conclusion there are clear things that we are doing well, clear things that the insurgents are doing well but in the end, we have a very good shot of winning if we do the right things. We just need to implement the things that i have stated and then we can leave but as of right now, that is not a possibility.

Kill as many coalition troops as is necessary to make them leave - hanging the dead by their own intestines from visible locations would help this.

Kidnap as many Iraqi diplomats as possible.

Break Saddam from his trial ASAP.

There.

I dunno if I want to respond to this thread. My activities have been pretty suspicious lately.

I've been learning how to speak Arabic
I've been keeping out with whatever Bush says
I've been learning some thigns about Saddam's trial AND
I've been reading on wikipedia some things about Osama and all those other terrorist leaders

Dunno if I want to respond to this thread, but...

I would seize the government's control, kidnap as many politicians as possible, and launch another attack against the U.S.

II would seize the government's control, kidnap as many politicians as possible, and launch another attack against the U.S.
Excuse me, exactly how many attacks has Iraq made against the US, ever?

Excuse me, exactly how many attacks has Iraq made against the US, ever?

Remember the Alamo. *nod*

Remember the Alamo. *nod*
Al-Alamo, no?

:p

Excuse me, exactly how many attacks has Iraq made against the US, ever?

More specific (sorry): another attack on U.S soil.

More specific (sorry): another attack on U.S soil.
Yeah, and again, how many Iraqis have ever done that?

Yeah, and again, how many Iraqis have ever done that?

0. The Al-Qaeda terrorists weren't Iraqi, silly.

More specific (sorry): another attack on U.S soil. I wonder if Iraq can launch another attack on US soil now? 9/11 must've been all they had...

More specific (sorry): another attack on U.S soil.

Another?

0. The Al-Qaeda terrorists weren't Iraqi, silly.
Correct, and exactly my point!

Icovir, read through the posts again and see why I'm laughing at your expense right now.

Another?
Here (http://www.singlemaltsdirect.com/acatalog/lagavulin_b.jpg) you go

The critical goal of outside terrorist involvement is essentially one thing:

to sow violence and discord, making people hate America.

The primary of goal of the native insurgency is essentially:

to drive out American forces.

For outside terrorist involvement, it's not even to kill coalition forces. As a matter of fact, the longer we stay, the more of a benefit it is to them because the more people we are forced to kill, the more shit we are forced to blow up, etc. etc. making people hate us even more and inspiring more and more Iraqis to join the so-called 'jihad' against America. Bin Laden profited enormously when we chose to invade Iraq, because now there Al-Queda where there was no Al-Queda before.

All the foreign insurgents need to do is make the groups fight amongst each other, and they will have won.

If I was a native insurgent leader, however, here's what I would do...

a) Forget sniping and rocket attacks- these waste resources and are far less successful than other means. Roadside bombs are the way to go, or alternatively, suicide bombs. Specially pregnant chicks and kids. Make sure Americans learn to trust no one and begin to hate Iraq.
b) Capture soldiers and make tapes asking for America to withdraw in a civil manner- "we just want our homes back, if you don't withdraw, we have no choice," etc. etc. America of course won't withdraw, so cut off their heads.
c) Desseminate resources as much as possible. Spread out those RPGs, let anybody who wants em get ahold of em. Chances are they're gonna end up hitting hummers. This also prevents coalition forces from seizing great amounts of resources at a time.
d) the key is NOT to kill lots of people at once in co-ordinated attacks. The key is to spread out everything everywhere, three killed here, two killed there, etc. etc. etc.

The Americans NEED defineable victories (like Fallujah, or the capture of Saddam) to get support. To quote South Park... "how can you kill that which has no life?" Don't show any faces, choose any leaders. People will be inspired by your devotion alone, but Americans will only see a steady stream of casualties with no end in sight.

Okay, disclaimer: this is what I would do if I was an insurgent commander who wanted to get America out. I don't support the above in any way. It's just what I think would give them the best shot.

Augh, peoples. When I said "another" attack on U.S soil, I meant in general. I wasn't saying that Iraq or the insurgents there launched it, I was saying "another" in comparison to 9/11.

By now, it's clear that Iraq won't be solved through force alone. There has to be some kind of political front, too. A major obstacle, however, is the Iraqi government itself. One of our errors was to let anti-American Iran-friendly politicians run for office, and these are the people we are now stuck with.

The ridiculous rules of engagement don't help either. We should have killed al-Sadr ages ago and disbanded his militia.

True, the ROE hurt us since we're the only ones who follow them!

True, the ROE hurt us since we're the only ones who follow them!

But God forbid we unintentionally kill one innocent civilian!! Then the media will show our soldiers as the savages, rather than the jihadis who daily behead.

But God forbid we unintentionally kill one innocent civilian!!

Indeed. God forbid.

And then there's the ones you intentionally kill. What's the quick gloss-over for that contingency? "Satan permit"?

Augh, peoples. When I said "another" attack on U.S soil, I meant in general. I wasn't saying that Iraq or the insurgents there launched it, I was saying "another" in comparison to 9/11.
Right. I see.

Why?

Right. I see.

Why?

Why launch an attack on U.S soil (if it was possible)?

Well, it would really damage the U.S, since a lot of money is being used for the war. One attack, and then the U.S would have to repair themselves, diverting money from the war.

That will weaken the troops/their numbers, leaving them open for attack. Especially if you attack a military building like the Pentagon (and actually suceed).

Indeed. God forbid.

And then there's the ones you intentionally kill. What's the quick gloss-over for that contingency? "Satan permit"?

Yes. Nevermind the fact that the "insurgents" would make a literal bloodbath if we leave, and they deliberately kill people. But then, if you're going to equate America with Islamic fundamentalists, I suppose it doesn't matter whether you mean to kill people or not.

You mean the...let's see...8 soldiers and one sailor that were charged with killing civilians? Oh, sure, forget about the other 133,992 soldiers in Iraq right now that are performing bravely and honorably.

Why launch an attack on U.S soil (if it was possible)?

Well, it would really damage the U.S, since a lot of money is being used for the war. One attack, and then the U.S would have to repair themselves, diverting money from the war.

That will weaken the troops/their numbers, leaving them open for attack. Especially if you attack a military building like the Pentagon (and actually suceed).
Ehmm... the Pentagon is quite well protected... I don't think it'd do that much damage.

Plus repairing the US is pennies compared to waging war in Iraq, and it might make people want to pull out - most guerillas want to keep the enemy in their lands, where they've got a good chance for revenge with little effort.

You mean the...let's see...8 soldiers and one sailor that were charged with killing civilians? Oh, sure, forget about the other 133,992 soldiers in Iraq right now that are performing bravely and honorably.
Erhmm... yes... absolutely every soldier but those 8 is doing their job honourably... I'm so very, very sure of that.

Erhmm... yes... absolutely every soldier but those 8 is doing their job honourably... I'm so very, very sure of that.

Well, let's see...

.05% of soldiers in Iraq were accused of any misconduct in the past year
15% of New York's Police Department is accused of some misconduct during the year
.003% of military patrols resulted in investigation
.16% of NYPD patrols resulted in investigation
Remove the incidents committed by one terribly led unit of prison gurads, and the military's performance improves by more than 100%
In an envoronment at least 850 times as deadly as New York City, with a force of tens of thousands of teenagers who have no police traning and who are working in communities where they don't even know the language, the US miliatry has done its policing job with 1/300th of the complaints that NYPD receives annually
Per patrol, the military is 50 times less likey to receive a complaint than the NYPD
In the past year, New York City lost one offices in the line of duty, or .002% of its force
Over the same period, the US military in Iraq lost 842, or .7% of the in-country force

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/media/pdf/vox/Lacey_Proceedings_10_04.pdf

Ehmm... the Pentagon is quite well protected... I don't think it'd do that much damage.

Plus repairing the US is pennies compared to waging war in Iraq, and it might make people want to pull out - most guerillas want to keep the enemy in their lands, where they've got a good chance for revenge with little effort.

Well, the point is to make them pull out. How many times have you heard the insurgents say "pull out of the Middle East immediatly"?

Also, I wouldn't be an insurgent leader anyway, but IF I could, I would attack the Petagon (big if there).

I'd kill as many Americans as possible until they leave. I think thats the goal of most of them.

I'd kill as many Americans as possible until they leave. I think thats the goal of most of them.

Man, why didn't I think of that?

I dunno if I want to respond to this thread. My activities have been pretty suspicious lately.

I've been learning how to speak Arabic
I've been keeping out with whatever Bush says
I've been learning some thigns about Saddam's trial AND
I've been reading on wikipedia some things about Osama and all those other terrorist leaders

Dunno if I want to respond to this thread, but...

I would seize the government's control, kidnap as many politicians as possible, and launch another attack against the U.S.

I was teaching myself arabic at once, now its switched to hebrew.

anyways with this thread. I didn't read the op, but jdging from your post ill make something up. i'd "stay the course" if i was an insurgent ;)