NationStates Jolt Archive

By now, most of you would have heard of 'Post-humanism' or 'trans-humanism', that is the philosophy advocation the departure of our mortal bodies of flesh to an immortal artificial body. There are several complications with the theory, which have been discussed, and I shall breifly outlay in a moment. The issue I bring to the forums today is that of 'post-genderism', a subranch of 'post-humanism', if you will. Basically, the philosophy advocates the abandonment of the primitive notion of 'gender' along with our human forms. I want you to think about the implications of such a drastic move. Combine these with the overwhelming implications of the move to post-human forms, and you have one hell of a though bomb.

So here is what I propose to you. Would you go post-gender? Or would you keep your gender, but still make the move to post-human? Or would you stay in your mortal body? Allow me to clarify some key issues which are no doubt running through your mind. A big problem with the move to post humanism is the transportation of the conciousness, where does it reside, would you technically die, and such. So for the purposes of this thought experiment, either by keeping your original brain, or by using nanobots to convert it to synthetic materials while you are concious and awake your conciousness is definitely preserved. That is, you do not die and have an identical clone replace you. The post-human form will be you. Next, you post-human form can be as much, or as little like you human form as you please. You will not neccesarily look different. You will no longer need to eat, sleep, screw, excercise, or perform any of the other trappings of life or mortality., However, if you want you can simulate perfectly the sensation of any of these activities, be it eating, or sleeping or screwing, though you amy lose interest in partaking in them. So functionally you will be the same, but you will no longer need any of the above things. For the move to post-gender, you may appear however you please, but you may lose interest in sex. Either that, or have sex with males, females, and post humans indifferently. It should no longer matter to you anyhow. Also, lets say the operation is irreversible, whichever one you picked.

Ok so those are the guidelines. If I have left something out, use common sense and go of the most logical idea. So, what will it be? Human, Post-human, or Post-gender?

Personally I am unsure. I would definitely go post-human, but I am unsure on the post-gender issue. I truly like being a man, but all of the reasons I like it are irrelevant to a post-gender being. Post-genderism seems to be the more enlightened path. But my instincts and desire guide me towards an eternity as I am. Socially speaking, being a man is a very big part of my identity. Would I be a different person should I lose it? Perhaps I would be different, but superior all of the same. Certainly being Post-gender would be perfect for lording it over 'those poor primitives' still shakled to their concepts of gender, from back in the 'life' age. hmm, so difficult.

I'm guessing that by "gender" you mean "sex"?

Whooo, Post Human Yea.

Though Meaty-Me has some uses, so hopefully I'll be able to keep it around when they write my brain to <something hopefully more durable than Silicone>

And if the mix of post-Human and Post-Gender cultures/technologies allows easy swapping of Meat-Bods and parts y'know, there will probably be some 'experimentation'. ;)

Personally I am unsure. I would definitely go post-human, but I am unsure on the post-gender issue. I truly like being a man, but all of the reasons I like it are irrelevant to a post-gender being. Post-genderism seems to be the more enlightened path. But my instincts and desire guide me towards an eternity as I am. Socially speaking, being a man is a very big part of my identity. Would I be a different person should I lose it? Perhaps I would be different, but superior all of the same. Certainly being Post-gender would be perfect for lording it over 'those poor primitives' still shakled to their concepts of gender, from back in the 'life' age. hmm, so difficult.

post-generism has already been done by the feminitst/post-feminist movement.

I have no idea what any of this is, but that didn't keep me from voting.

Fuck it, I'm going post-gender. It seems to be the path to the highest philosophical enlightenment. Being able to shed all vestiges of life bar my conciousness itself, it is too enticing.

whats the upside of doing either?

i suppose i might be the billionth person to try the posthuman thing. im not trying anything that isnt fully tested and where i cant interview many people that i know both before and after the procedure.

ill stick with what i have for now, thank you very much.

I'm guessing that by "gender" you mean "sex"?
I didn't know there was a difference, but 'post-genderism' is what they call it anyhow.

Star trek has shown us that post human society is genderless.

Once mankind progresses to the stage where it is just a brain in a tank the need for sex will be sublimated into a desire to wager quatloos on the outcomes of primitive tests of strength between the lower species.

I'm guessing that by "gender" you mean "sex"?

it really sounds like GPS has taken some feminist theories and not really read them and then mixed up gender with sex. or GPS could have read about some weird theory no-one's ever heard of before.

I didn't know there was a difference, but 'post-genderism' is what they call it anyhow.

Gender is a psychological state. Feeling mentally male or female.

Sex is a physical state. Having a penis, or having a vagina. Or something else.

Most people don't notice the difference, because in most people they're the same; male gender/male sex, or female gender/female sex, so most people don't realise the difference.

whats the upside of doing either?

i suppose i might be the billionth person to try the posthuman thing. im not trying anything that isnt fully tested and where i cant interview many people that i know both before and after the procedure.

ill stick with what i have for now, thank you very much.
The upside is virtual immortality, Freedom from diseases, technologically customisable bodies... Ifyou went to post-gender you also get freedom from the constraints gender places on you physically, psychologically, socially and such. Theoretically, if there was enough post-genderists, you could have an enlightened post-gender society built around only the concept of individuals.

The smart thing about your decision is you can always go from human to post-gender, but once you go post-anything, you can't go back.

it really sounds like GPS has taken some feminist theories and not really read them and then mixed up gender with sex. or GPS could have read about some weird theory no-one's ever heard of before.
GPN damnit! I'll global positioning system you! I didn't come up with this, google it. However it I was reminded of it by the recent fem thread.

Gender is a psychological state. Feeling mentally male or female.

Sex is a physical state. Having a penis, or having a vagina. Or something else.

Most people don't notice the difference, because in most people they're the same; male gender/male sex, or female gender/female sex, so most people don't realise the difference.
Well I suppose in this situation ist is both anyway. Good to know though. Plus, if they called it a 'post-sex' society nobody would even look at it! :D

I'm going along with Pacific Nations, here. Being a man rules, but only because of things related to the physical form.

I suppose if I were to become posthuman, shedding my form entirely, I'd only use male identity for the simulated sex. I'd probably end up getting into it once the real thing becomes impossible. (Giving sex up entirely doesn't really tempt me.) Chances are you couldn't tell the difference between genders without bodies in most other situations anyways.

On a related note, it's hard to tell how much of my current identity would transfer over. Most of the posthuman scenarios I've heard of involve scanning a neural map, so my memories and habits of thinking would stay. How much emotions are affected by things sloshing about in glands... hmm, that's something I'm curious to see.

The upside is virtual immortality, Freedom from diseases, technologically customisable bodies... Ifyou went to post-gender you also get freedom from the constraints gender places on you physically, psychologically, socially and such. Theoretically, if there was enough post-genderists, you could have an enlightened post-gender society built around only the concept of individuals.

The smart thing about your decision is you can always go from human to post-gender, but once you go post-anything, you can't go back.

yeha im not an early adopter. there are just too many things that can go wrong even with your "the worst doesnt happen" scenario.

once a billion or so are done i would have a much better idea whether or not its for me.

but ive never been interested in virtual immortality

I am for elective post-humanism, but not compulsory versions of it. If one wants to remain human, they have all the right. That said, I'd prefer remaining human - but things might change.

On a side note, I don't identify much with the male gender - if anything, I'd be a power-driven, executive/military type female really, if I had to go by gender (not a female stereotype at all, but one that suits me). A matter of aesthetics and style ultimately, but I prefer the female gender in this regard.

I'm going along with Pacific Nations, here. Being a man rules, but only because of things related to the physical form.

Like?

I'm going along with Pacific Nations, here. Being a man rules, but only because of things related to the physical form.

I suppose if I were to become posthuman, shedding my form entirely, I'd only use male identity for the simulated sex. I'd probably end up getting into it once the real thing becomes impossible. (Giving sex up entirely doesn't really tempt me.) Chances are you couldn't tell the difference between genders without bodies in most other situations anyways.

On a related note, it's hard to tell how much of my current identity would transfer over. Most of the posthuman scenarios I've heard of involve scanning a neural map, so my memories and habits of thinking would stay. How much emotions are affected by things sloshing about in glands... hmm, that's something I'm curious to see.
Yeah, well I actually opted for post-gender. But I think you got confused when I was complimenting Ashmoria on the wisdom of staying human, at least for a while. Remembet that anything you can do as a human you can do as a post-human, or simulatte perfectly. The key difference is that you will no longer need to, or possibly even want to. The last thing you noted, about the hormones, is part the reason I opted for post-gender. I mean, no matter how influenced my sense of self is by these natuaral drugs, I can only be a purer version of myself without them. Also, surely they cloud our perception of our reality with evolutionary desires to conquer and procreate for the good of the species.

Fuck, no way I'd move myself to a machine. I'd just have a troupe of clones follow me around, and whenver I need a new organ, I'd cut it right out of one of 'em.

By now, most of you would have heard of 'Post-humanism' or 'trans-humanism', that is the philosophy advocation the departure of our mortal bodies of flesh to an immortal artificial body. There are several complications with the theory, which have been discussed, and I shall breifly outlay in a moment. The issue I bring to the forums today is that of 'post-genderism', a subranch of 'post-humanism', if you will. Basically, the philosophy advocates the abandonment of the primitive notion of 'gender' along with our human forms. I want you to think about the implications of such a drastic move. Combine these with the overwhelming implications of the move to post-human forms, and you have one hell of a though bomb.

So here is what I propose to you. Would you go post-gender? Or would you keep your gender, but still make the move to post-human? Or would you stay in your mortal body? Allow me to clarify some key issues which are no doubt running through your mind. A big problem with the move to post humanism is the transportation of the conciousness, where does it reside, would you technically die, and such. So for the purposes of this thought experiment, either by keeping your original brain, or by using nanobots to convert it to synthetic materials while you are concious and awake your conciousness is definitely preserved. That is, you do not die and have an identical clone replace you. The post-human form will be you. Next, you post-human form can be as much, or as little like you human form as you please. You will not neccesarily look different. You will no longer need to eat, sleep, screw, excercise, or perform any of the other trappings of life or mortality., However, if you want you can simulate perfectly the sensation of any of these activities, be it eating, or sleeping or screwing, though you amy lose interest in partaking in them. So functionally you will be the same, but you will no longer need any of the above things. For the move to post-gender, you may appear however you please, but you may lose interest in sex. Either that, or have sex with males, females, and post humans indifferently. It should no longer matter to you anyhow. Also, lets say the operation is irreversible, whichever one you picked.

Ok so those are the guidelines. If I have left something out, use common sense and go of the most logical idea. So, what will it be? Human, Post-human, or Post-gender?

I already have no interest in sex, so I have nothing to lose by becoming post-gender in that regard. So I would either become post-gender or remain human. It'd be great to not have to worry about eating or sleeping. Those take too much time and aren't particularly enjoyable anyway. But there's not really much point in becoming post-human and not post-gender, and least not for me.

There is no way I'd give up my humanity, and even less my gender. I love them both dearly.

There is no way I'd give up my humanity, and even less my gender. I love them both dearly.

I wouldn't miss my gender at all. The humanity part is the only part that I'd have to consider.

I wouldn't miss my gender at all. The humanity part is the only part that I'd have to consider.

I would miss mine... and I know I wouldn't be the only one missing it. I couldn't do that to my boyfriend. Or the guy who works at the reception desk at work :D

I would miss mine... and I know I wouldn't be the only one missing it. I couldn't do that to my boyfriend. Or the guy who works at the reception desk at work :D

I see. I guess it's just not a big deal to me. My gender feels sort of like a nuisance to me, because I don't want it to affect any part of my life at all.

By now, most of you would have heard of 'Post-humanism' or 'trans-humanism', that is the philosophy advocation the departure of our mortal bodies of flesh to an immortal artificial body.

How can I be sure your artificial body is immortal? I paid good money for this body and it isnt dead yet.

I see. I guess it's just not a big deal to me. My gender feels sort of like a nuisance to me, because I don't want it to affect any part of my life at all.

It doesn't have to if you don't want it to...
But wouldn't it be nice to have the option? Just in case?

It doesn't have to if you don't want it to...
But wouldn't it be nice to have the option? Just in case?

I know. But it still affects me physically, like with periods, and that's annoying, because they won't ever benefit me and they're just there.

What option?:confused:

For myself, I'd just put my brain in a vat, linked up to a machinical body, with constant wireless internet access... and I'd probably use traditional computers linked to my head to help me think... I don't know - even now, with a human body, I don't have that much interest in sex... (I know that makes me odd, but it's the case) so I probably wouldn't miss it...