NationStates Jolt Archive

no, seriously.

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=8&aid=63607

Representatives of city Muslim organizations gathered Thursday to condemn two possible anti-Muslim bias crimes at Pace University. But as Criminal Justice Reporter Solana Pyne explains in the following report, the groups are impressed with authorities for the way they're investigating the incidents.

In the space of a month there have been two separate incidents where a Koran, the Muslim holy book, was found in a Pace University toilet. The most recent was found just last Friday.

"This is no different from placing a burning cross in front of a house or painting a swastika on a locker," said Aliya Latif of the Muslim-American Lawyers Association.

Representatives of New York Muslim organizations came together Thursday to make sure the incidents aren't forgotten, even as they praised the way authorities are handling them.

"We spoke to [the] NYPD yesterday and they said they are doing everything they could to make sure there will be an arrest. They will work really hard on this," said Omar T Mohammedi of the American-Islamic Relations Council.

The Pace Muslim Students association, which criticized the University for not being aggressive enough in its handling of the first incident where a library copy of the Koran was found in the library toilet, praised the administration's actions this time.

"I would say that the university has kind of done a 180 and is definitely working with us in terms of labeling it as a hate crime and then, the sensitivity forums that I spoke about earlier, they're actually helping us facilitate those," said Faiza Ali of the Muslim Students Association.

Pace University released a statement on Thursday in response to the incidents announcing an anti-hate campaign.

"Pace University has aggressively reached out to our many student organizations and campus councils that are concerned with promoting acceptance and combating intolerance," said part of the statement. "All of them are responding with deep concern and constructive suggestions; we are very united."

The Muslim Students Association said the fact that these incidents happened here on campus has made some fear for their safety. But they say that overall the reaction of other students has been more than reassuring.

"We actually have been welcomed by a lot of student groups on campus that have been standing in solidarity with us," said Ali.

And they are standing in solidarity with others in two more possible bias-related incidents over the last month, directed toward other groups.

"The same week that the first incident occurred with the Koran, that Friday a swastika and racial slurs were spray painted on a bathroom stall in Pace University,” said Ali. “In our Westchester campus on someone's car there were racial slurs spray painted as well."

The NYPD hate crimes task force is investigating all four incidents. So far they haven't identified any suspects.


Anyone putting a Koran in a toilet is a fool for doing so and incredibly insensitive to Muslim students. No student should have to feel they are in a hostile environment. But a Hate Crime is a serious offense. It is going too far, especially when "art" displays of a cross in urine or a star of david smeared with feces is applauded in New York.

Anybody who puts the Koran down a toilet better have a good plumber to unblock said toilet.;)

Anyone putting a Koran in a toilet is a fool for doing so and incredibly insensitive to Muslim students. No student should have to feel they are in a hostile environment. But a Hate Crime is a serious offense. It is going too far, especially when "art" displays of a cross in urine or a star of david smeared with feces is applauded in New York.

Calling it a hate crime is going too far, its an incredibly immature and insensitive thing to do, but not a hate crime.

I guess that would make "Piss-Christ" a hate crime, too....

As if the previous examples of Muslim intolerance were not enough, here is another one.

As if the previous examples of Muslim intolerance were not enough, here is another one.

How is this intolerant? Over-reactive yes, but how is it intolerant?

The world is too P.C anyway

Chistians are hated in Muslim countries so there is bound to be the same thing the other way

Countries like the US and UK should stop thinking about rights of minoritys and focus on things that really matter.....Like healthcare

Calling it a hate crime is going too far, its an incredibly immature and insensitive thing to do, but not a hate crime.

Whether it is crime is a valid question, but placing a Koran in a toilet in the hopes of it being found by a Muslim or Muslims is done from hate.

As if the previous examples of Muslim intolerance were not enough, here is another one.

Intolerant of what? Your right to desecrate their holy word? Were this a Bible we'd be hearing the entire right pissing and moaning about how Christians are persecuted.

Whether it is crime is a valid question, but placing a Koran in a toilet in the hopes of it being found by a Muslim or Muslims is done from hate.

Agreed, but I don't think it is a crime, just dumb and hateful.

Agreed, but I don't think it is a crime, just dumb and hateful.

The guilty ought to be punished by performing community service unclogging public toilets. That'll teach them.

is there a flush emo?
oú p'tit con?
well i found a priest once,he was readin the bible

is there a flush emo?
oú p'tit con?
well i found a priest once,he was readin the bible

If he had read the Koran he would know.
But if he flushed he'd be upset
Let it ride on!

Ah, I thought this said Korean.

Ah, I thought this said Korean.

Me too, did a double take..:p

Are you serious? I can't believe someone could be so insensitive, people today forgetting to flush I have never heard such things.

When a star of david or a cross is defaced, it's art. When a Koran is defaced, all of a sudden, it's a hate crime. Seriously, Jews suffered too. They had that whole Nazi-Germany incident. Why isn't defacing their symbol a hate crime? Why should the koran get special treatment? If the muslim community wants to get a good rep in the eyes of everyone else, the turds crying "hate crime" sure as hell aren't helping. I mean, as if al-queida and Hamas hadn't hurt Islam's image enough, you have muslims and PC people whining over something that would have been celebrated if it was done to anyone else.

Intolerant of what? Your right to desecrate their holy word? Were this a Bible we'd be hearing the entire right pissing and moaning about how Christians are persecuted.

True that

Intolerant of what? Your right to desecrate their holy word? Were this a Bible we'd be hearing the entire right pissing and moaning about how Christians are persecuted.

Yet the authorities would not be pursuing prosecution.

Yet the authorities would not be pursuing prosecution.

Naw just persuing prosicution if it happened to be a flag ...

Ah, I thought this said Korean.

LOL...i think that might classify as a hate crime. depends. :p

Me too, did a double take..:p


And me - which is odd, considering things Koran related are not uncommon in thread headers.....

Naw just persuing prosicution if it happened to be a flag ...

Even though that's a red herring, I oppose legislation criminalizing flag burning.

Did they take a picture? IF not: Hate Crime. IF so: Art.

LOL...i think that might classify as a hate crime. depends. :p

Maybe.. maybe they fell in..?

Even though that's a red herring, I oppose legislation criminalizing flag burning.

Not really completely irrelevant we were talking about the rights supposed ability to withhold attempting to make anti desecration laws on a book

While they are pushing for anti-desecration laws on another privately owned object

It was not meant to distract but to show inconsistency of character

Not really completely irrelevant we were talking about the rights supposed ability to withhold attempting to make anti desecration laws on a book

While they are pushing for anti-desecration laws on another privately owned object

It was not meant to distract but to show inconsistency of character

They're inconsistant and the authorities are hypocritical.

Not a hate crime. Probably just a prank. (albiet an idiotic one) Afterall, writing swears or spitting pot seeds into a Bible is fine.

yet another example of muslims wanting everything their way.

The Koran makes people blow themselves up in crowded marketplaces so who cares? :upyours:

The Koran makes people blow themselves up in crowded marketplaces so who cares? :upyours:

Now all you needed were a few gun smilies to make a stereotypical first post. Congradulations.

They're inconsistant and the authorities are hypocritical.

Agreed ... which was the point which is also why it happened to not be a "Red herring" as proclaimed

Intolerant of what? Your right to desecrate their holy word? Were this a Bible we'd be hearing the entire right pissing and moaning about how Christians are persecuted.

But I doubt you'd see many people making a serious effort to turn this into a criminal offense. That is the fundamental difference. If I decided to wipe my ass with a bible, Christians would get offended, call for boycots, piss and moan on Hannity & Colmes, and a few days later the whole thing would blow over and some fresh outrage would get everyone clucking. Do it with the koran and the most civil response you can expect is muslim leaders asking for speech to be prosecuted. If Pat Robertson were to ask for someone to be arrested for mocking the bible(or Jesus) he would be rightly criticized for being a theocrat. I'd just like to see the door swing both ways.

Especially since the only real difference between muslim and christian extremists is complexion.

Agreed ... which was the point which is also why it happened to not be a "Red herring" as proclaimed

I can accept that.

The Koran makes people blow themselves up in crowded marketplaces so who cares? :upyours:

Wow, just wow.

Oh, brother! I bet if someone had tried to flush a Bible down the toilet the ACLU (American Communist Lawyers Union) would be defending the person that did it! So sad! :rolleyes:

Oh, brother! I bet if someone had tried to flush a Bible down the toilet the ACLU (American Communist Lawyers Union) would be defending the person that did it! So sad! :rolleyes:

Wrong, the ACLU has defended christian plaintiffs loads of times, they just come under a lot more fire when representing non-mainstream clients which causes more media coverage.

Hell the ACLU has represented KKK men before I believe.

The Koran makes people blow themselves up in crowded marketplaces so who cares? :upyours:

every religion has terrorists.

every religion has terrorists.

Sadly, all too true. :(

Except for the Amish.

Oh, brother! I bet if someone had tried to flush a Bible down the toilet the ACLU (American Communist Lawyers Union) would be defending the person that did it! So sad! :rolleyes:

Yup ... and if this comes to court they probably will defend this as a freedom of speech too... silly people with their consistant views on freedom of speech

Calling it a hate crime is going too far, its an incredibly immature and insensitive thing to do, but not a hate crime.
I think I should be allowed to mock people for being religious, regardless of what their religion is.

But, I can't. I'm only presently allowed to make fun of Christians and fringe groups (like Scientologists or Raelians). I can't mock Muslims or Jews, and that's unfair.

But, I can't. I'm only presently allowed to make fun of Christians and fringe groups (like Scientologists or Raelians). I can't mock Muslims or Jews, and that's unfair.

Who is forcing you not to?

Intolerant of what? Your right to desecrate their holy word?
True that
Are you seriously saying that people don't have a right to desecrate holy books?

Would you equally have a problem if it was a Bible?

Were this a Bible we'd be hearing the entire right pissing and moaning about how Christians are persecuted.
Well, this sort of has been done by Andre Serrano.

Naw just persuing prosicution if it happened to be a flag ...
Which has nothing to do with religion and is absolutely a differnet issue.

Sadly, all too true. :(

Except for the Amish.
The Amish come under the definition of Christian.

Though I don't think there are any Jainist terrorists.

Who is forcing you not to?
I'm being dissuaded by hate crime laws.

no, seriously.

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=8&aid=63607



Anyone putting a Koran in a toilet is a fool for doing so and incredibly insensitive to Muslim students. No student should have to feel they are in a hostile environment. But a Hate Crime is a serious offense. It is going too far, especially when "art" displays of a cross in urine or a star of david smeared with feces is applauded in New York.

One thing I never really understood...how in the hell do you put a book in a toilet? Do you somehow flush it, or do you just put it in and then take it out?

Either one of those seem pretty stupid and pointless. If you don't like a book, burn it. That would make sense.

I'm being dissuaded by hate crime laws.

So, if I throw a physics textbook in the toilet, or a textbook on evolution in the toilet, I'm committing a hate crime against atheists? :rolleyes:

I'm being dissuaded by hate crime laws.

Criticism is not a hate crime, unless you live in a dictatorship...

So, if I throw a physics textbook in the toilet, or a textbook on evolution in the toilet, I'm committing a hate crime against atheists? :rolleyes:

Not only atheists believe in evolution and physics:rolleyes:

So, if I throw a physics textbook in the toilet, or a textbook on evolution in the toilet, I'm committing a hate crime against atheists? :rolleyes:

Nay, flushing a non-holy book is a hate crime against atheists. :)

Defacement of the cross = art.
Defacement of the Koran = crime?

Does this remind anyone of the response to the Pope's comments (saying Islam is a religion of violence) with firebombs and stabbings?

A person should have every right to flush a Koran down the toilet, if it's his property.

A person should have every right to flush a Koran down the toilet, if it's his property.

You mean the right?

A person should have every right to flush a Koran down the toilet, if it's his property.
Bravo!

*applause*

Bravo!

Criticism is not a hate crime, unless you live in a dictatorship...
I don't see how the form of government determines how strict the laws are.

Canadian hate crime laws are really stupid. All sorts of speech that's legal in the US is illegal here.

Are you seriously saying that people don't have a right to desecrate holy books?

Would you equally have a problem if it was a Bible?



You certainly read a lot of meaning into my words for me. Allow me to clarify. Christians would be just as up in arms if someone desecrated the Bible. No one has a right to force other people to respect their symbolism, but to act as though Muslims are somehow out of line with their outrage is dishonest, because we'd all be just as outraged if something that important to us was treated so disrespectfully.

You mean the right?

-.-

You certainly read a lot of meaning into my words for me. Allow me to clarify. Christians would be just as up in arms if someone desecrated the Bible. No one has a right to force other people to respect their symbolism, but to act as though Muslims are somehow out of line with their outrage is dishonest, because we'd all be just as outraged if something that important to us was treated so disrespectfully.

Wrong.

When the DaVinci Code movie came out, which was a fictional revision history of Jesus's life, among other things, all we heard were some protests by a fringe Christian group called Opus Dei. There was no violence at all, no Christian was "up in arms." Hell, some Christian priests even encouraged their followers to watch the movie!

And that's just one of the more recent examples I can think of.

Now do you seriously believe that the same would happen if a movie came out that was a revision of Mohammed's life, and went against beliefs most Muslims consider to be non-negotiable? Because if you do, then you are lying to yourself, or you are very, very deluded.

Are you seriously saying that people don't have a right to desecrate holy books?

Would you equally have a problem if it was a Bible?


snip


Not what I was agreeing with ... I was just pointing out the same people who think desicrating a koran is a good thing would be throwing a shitfit over it if it was a bible

Now personaly if the people desicrating the book own it they have every right to do with it what they want ... even if it is an asshole move

Which has nothing to do with religion and is absolutely a differnet issue.


snip
Covered this already
I will quote the reasoning for binging it up


Not really completely irrelevant we were talking about the rights supposed ability to withhold attempting to make anti desecration laws on a book

While they are pushing for anti-desecration laws on another privately owned object

It was not meant to distract but to show inconsistency of character

In the US, I would consider it to be protected speech - just like burning a flag.

Either it's in the toilet by accident (no harm, no foul) OR

it's someone's idea of a joke (get over it) OR

it's political speech (in which case, GET OVER IT).

In the US, I would consider it to be protected speech - just like burning a flag.

Either it's in the toilet by accident (no harm, no foul) OR

it's someone's idea of a joke (get over it) OR

it's political speech (in which case, GET OVER IT).

I think you just contradicted yourself. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I do believe you said that abusing a Koran should be illegal just like abusing the flag is, and then you went on to say that people who are offended by Koran abuse should get over it.

I think you just contradicted yourself. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I do believe you said that abusing a Koran should be illegal just like abusing the flag is, and then you went on to say that people who are offended by Koran abuse should get over it.

No, I didn't contradict myself. You need to learn English.

I'm saying that abusing the Koran is not a crime. Nor is burning a flag.

So, I guess burning a bible is a hate crime too?

Seriously, your religion isn't that special that we should give you special treatment that no other gets.

no, seriously.

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=8&aid=63607



Anyone putting a Koran in a toilet is a fool for doing so and incredibly insensitive to Muslim students. No student should have to feel they are in a hostile environment. But a Hate Crime is a serious offense. It is going too far, especially when "art" displays of a cross in urine or a star of david smeared with feces is applauded in New York.


Its no different than burning a cross on someones lawn and should be treated as the hate crime it is.

( if it can be proven )

I think you get 5 years for ethnic intimidation...wait until they get to tell the Muslims why they are in jail...:D

Justice will be ummmm serviced .;)


So, I guess burning a bible is a hate crime too? Depends on the total circumstance...the answer is YES it could be .

Canadian hate crime laws are really stupid. All sorts of speech that's legal in the US is illegal here.
They work well enough to suit my tastes.

Its no different than burning a cross on someones lawn and should be treated as tthe hate crime it is.

I think you get 5 years for ethnic intimidation...wait until they get to tell the Muslims why they are in jail...:D

Justice will be ummmm serviced .;)


If expressing your opinion on the legality of a certain action is illegal, then this incident sure as hell was.

No, I didn't contradict myself. You need to learn English.

I'm saying that abusing the Koran is not a crime. Nor is burning a flag.


The act itself is not a crime , it is the context into the act is placed that determines if a crime has been commited .

Swastika's are not illegal nor is painting them...unless you go into a Black neighborhood and paint them on a wall .

If you last long enough to get arrested what do YOU think happens ?

Common guys this isnt brain surgery...they find the guys or whomever who put the Koran in turds and they get to explain themselves...if they cant come up with a VALID reason for defacing the Kopran or if their OWN words indicate they wanted to intimidate the Muslims that get on their nerves ...they get arrested....if they say they ran out of paper and didn't think it was a big deal...prove it wrong...or they walk....... That time...the NEXT person who does something similar after all the complaints have been registered by the Islamic and civil rights community will be hung by the balls .

Look at the history of the civil rights movement in the US .
Symbolism is recognised in law as a weapon . Look it up .

If expressing your opinion on the legality of a certain action is illegal, then this incident sure as hell was.



Dude I am only a quarter of the way through my bottle of Stoli...whats your excuse ?:D


I have NO clue what you said / wrote...I better go smoke a doobie...

Dude I am only a quarter of the way through my bottle of Stoli...whats your excuse ?:D


I have NO clue what you said / wrote...I better go smoke a doobie...

*waves arms* guys who say throwing koran in doodie is bad should not go to jail.

every religion has terrorists.

Please don't feed the trolls.

I think I should be allowed to mock people for being religious, regardless of what their religion is.

But, I can't. I'm only presently allowed to make fun of Christians and fringe groups (like Scientologists or Raelians). I can't mock Muslims or Jews, and that's unfair.

Yeah, sad, isn't it. To be honest, you shouldn't be able to mock anyone's or any groups' religious beliefs, except for those that are truly dangerous, like Wahhabism/Wahhabists.

Please don't feed the trolls.

How is that trolling again?

How is that trolling again?

Shhhh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Troll

Shhhh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Troll

He wasn't intending to disrupt the discussion, in fact he contributed to it and was ironically arguing against a troll.....

He wasn't intending to disrupt the discussion, in fact he contributed to it and was ironically arguing against a troll.....

No, that's not how you do it. Trolls want you argue with them. That's how the trolls win. Read the article I linked to.

*waves arms* guys who say throwing koran in doodie is bad should not go to jail.


Kool but now I cant find my bowl....sucks,,,bad...

No, that's not how you do it. Trolls want you argue with them. That's how the trolls win. Read the article I linked to.

Uh, thats not trolling, thats called debate.

Here is another good link:

http://hometown.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm

Here is another good link:

http://hometown.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm

You can link all you want, it doesn't prove that his post was disruptive to the discussion or offensive.

Uh, thats not trolling, thats called debate.

You can't debate with a troll. You see, trolls don't want to GET IT. They want to GET YOU.

Trolls get their pleasure by just playing stupid on purpose and by trying to turn debates into flamewars. Then when a flamewar gets started, all they do is sit back and watch the fun.

So cut it out, and quit trolling me! :p

Yeah, sad, isn't it. To be honest, you shouldn't be able to mock anyone's or any groups' religious beliefs, except for those that are truly dangerous, like Wahhabism/Wahhabists.


Dude ...NO ONE has a right to determine what religion is legit.

Either respect them all or respect none ...


what do YOU know about Wahabism ?

Did you KNOW thats the state religion of Saudi Arabia for instance?


Its how PEOPLE USE religion thats FUCKED UP...

Not the religion itself..for the most part...you do need to seperate the religion from the jihadist...

After all we Christians murdered half the world in the name of the lord.

You can't debate with a troll. You see, trolls don't want to GET IT. They want to GET YOU.

Trolls get their pleasure by just playing stupid on purpose and by trying to turn debates into flamewars. Then when a flamewar gets started, all they do is sit back and watch the fun.

So cut it out, and quit trolling me! :p

I'm not trolling, I am simply asking you to explain why you think his post(and now my posts) are trollish. If you think we are both trolls, then report us to the mods.

Now, you see, Pyotr. Trolls just want to say outrageous things to make people mad and start flamewars. Then they just sit back and watch people get mad at each other. That's how they get their entertainment.

So, the point is, is if you see someone who posted an outrageous statement on a message board, don't respond to it, or leave a message reminding people NOT to "feed" or respond to trolls. If you respond to it, then you just took the bait. Do you get it now?

Now, you see, Pyotr. Trolls just want to say outrageous things to make people mad and start flamewars. Then they just sit back and watch people get mad at each other. That's how they get their entertainment.

So, the point is, is if you see someone who posted an outrageous statement on a message board, don't respond to it, or leave a message reminding people NOT to "feed" or respond to trolls. If you respond to it, then you just took the bait. Do you get it now?

I know full well what a troll is. My point is that neither I or the guy who you accused of being a troll are trolls. If you think so, report us we will be banned by the mods and you get to sit back and watch.

I know full well what a troll is. My point is that neither I or the guy who you accused of being a troll are trolls. If you think so, report us we will be banned by the mods and you get to sit back and watch.

You think? I thought I knew what a troll was for a long time, all the while being victimized by them for about 3-4 years. Then just this past week I did some research on the Internet about Internet Trolls. I do know a lot more about them now than I did before and I know what to watch for.

Anyways, we're taking this thread too far off-topic and that in itself is a form of trolling. Woops! :p

Time to get back on track. . .

You think? I thought I knew what a troll was for a long time, all the while being victimized by them for about 3-4 years. Then just this past week I did some research on the Internet about Internet Trolls. I do know a lot more about them now than I did before and I know what to watch for.

Yet apparently you incorrectly labeled a few posters as trolls that were not.

Anyway stop with the juvenile hijack so that the topic can get back on track

You think? I thought I knew what a troll was for a long time, all the while being victimized by them for about 3-4 years. Then just this past week I did some research on the Internet about Internet Trolls. I do know a lot more about them now than I did before and I know what to watch for.

And yet you still insist on side-stepping my argument. Support your claim of trolling, or this debate is over.

I guess that would make "Piss-Christ" a hate crime, too....

Don't be ridiculous. Abusing any element of the apparatus of white society is progressive.....:rolleyes:

Y'know, I read the thread title completely wrong. I thought it said "Korean in Toilet = Hate Crime."

*backs out slowly*

:p

Don't be ridiculous. Abusing any element of the apparatus of white society is progressive.....:rolleyes:

Since when is Jesus exclusively for white people?

Since when is Jesus exclusively for white people?

I neither explicitly, nor implicitly, stated so. However, that Christianity is a constituent of "white " society is incontrovertible.

Don't be ridiculous. Abusing any element of the apparatus of white society is progressive.....:rolleyes:

Uh, excuse me. There are plenty of black folks at my church. :cool:

well if i need paper and only find a dollar bill,i'll be please to do it.

I don't get it.

If I put my copy of, say, the 1983 Ford Laser user's manual in the toilet, is this a crime? What if I put my high school Human Biology textbook in the toilet? My copy of The Crucible?

If I'd done it to someone else's copy of these books, then yes, that would be destruction of property; a crime.

If the people that put the Qu'ran in the toilet own those copies of the Qur'an, I fail to see how it can be a crime. Maybe they've broken some campus regulation about obstructing a toilet with dull religious literature, but if the books are their property, they can do with them as they wish.

Not what I was agreeing with ... I was just pointing out the same people who think desicrating a koran is a good thing would be throwing a shitfit over it if it was a bible
I see you suffer the delusion that Christians are homogenously Islamphobic right-wing Busheviks.

I'm sorry if all the Christians you know are right-wing, I really am, but most of us do actually respect other people.

Thats one helluva of a toilet clogger...

I neither explicitly, nor implicitly, stated so. However, that Christianity is a constituent of "white " society is incontrovertible.

:confused:

Where's "Whiteland" on a World map, then?

:confused:

Where's "Whiteland" on a World map, then?

Antarctica looks pretty white on my map.

I masturbated into an open koran once, then in a bible.....slammed em shut, take that organized religion. Freedom of speech is God.

On one hand, I believe that people should be able to live without considering all sorts of religions and "others' beliefs". And muslims came to the West, not the West to muslims.

On the other, we must be consistent. If burning of the flag is going to be outlawed, so must be bad handling of Koran, Bible, Torah, and Flying Spaghetti Monster PromoCD. So it's not like only muslims can go crazy about fetishes; and, frankly, flag fetish is far more mundane.