NationStates Jolt Archive

Source - The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article1904969.ece)




Let the dirty campaigning begin. With less than three weeks to go before the US mid-term elections and an embattled Republican Party struggling to hold on to control of both the House and Senate, some of the country's more desperate candidates are resorting to desperate measures.

Republicans aren't going after their Democratic challengers much on Iraq, or the war on terror, or nuclear proliferation. Instead, members of President Bush's party are accusing their adversaries of being apologists for gay sex between adults and children.

In Ohio, the Republican candidate for governor, Kenneth Blackwell, went on a tear against his Democratic challenger, Ted Strickland, in their concluding televised debate this week, accusing him of cosying up to an eccentric group called the North American Man Boy Love Association, or Nambla, and associating himself with a man convicted of exposing himself to young children.

The attack almost certainly had more to do with Mr Strickland's double-digit lead in the polls than with any real substance. The convicted man, for example, was one of hundreds of campaign workers, not a close confidant of Mr Strickland's. But the smear by association with Nambla - a convoluted charge based on a congressional vote on which Mr Strickland abstained - does not appear to have been an accident, since Republican candidates have been trying it out all over the country.

In California, a struggling Republican congressman called John Doolittle has argued that since his opponent, Charlie Brown, is a member of the American Civil Liberties Union, and since the ACLU has in the past defended Nambla's free-speech rights, he is tainted by association. "It is astounding," Mr Doolittle said in a recent press release, "that anyone could defend a group dedicated to aiding and abetting paedophiles." (Mr Doolittle failed to mention that he once acted as a character witness for a friend convicted of sexually assaulting six of his patients.)

The Nambla charge has also been thrown at Nancy Pelosi, the San Francisco congresswoman who would become the next Speaker of the House if the Democrats win a majority on 7 November and who has thus become a multi-purpose pincushion for the Republicans. The maverick right-winger and erstwhile presidential candidate Pat Buchanan told a television interviewer this week that Ms Pelosi had been on gay pride parades where Nambla members were also present and had thus been "marching with paedophiles".

The line of attack is remarkably brazen, given that the Republican Party is itself being rocked by a man-boy sex scandal. First, Florida congressman Mark Foley was forced to resign following the publication of predatory e-mails and instant messages he sent to teenage pages working on Capitol Hill. Then the Republican House leadership closed ranks over revelations that it had known about Mr Foley's habits for years and done nothing about them. Now a second Republican congressman, Jim Kolbe of Arizona, is under investigation for a camping trip he organised with a group of pages 10 years ago.

And these are only the latest setbacks to hit a Republican Party already mired in corruption scandals and public disillusion on an array of issues, from Iraq to the aftermath of last year's Hurricane Katrina.

The thinking, though, appears to be that if Democrats can be painted as paedophiles too, then the Foley scandal might lose some of its bite. As Mr Buchanan said of Ms Pelosi: "If she's been marching with paedophiles, is she credible standing up there saying, 'I'm shocked, shocked, that some Republican is after 17-year-old pages'?"

There is a tendency in all US election campaigns to talk about sexual morality rather than weighty matters of state. But this yearseems to mark a new low.

Nowhere has the tone gone lower than in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, where a Republican candidate called Vernon Robinson has accused his opponent, incumbent congressman Brad Miller, of wanting to import homosexuals to the United States and spending tax-payer dollars on filthy scientific studies on sex.

"Instead of spending money on cancer research," a recent campaign advert ran, "Brad Miller spent your money to study the masturbation habits of old men ... Brad Miller even spent your tax dollars to pay teenage girls to watch pornographic movies with probes connected to their genitalia. Brad Miller pays for sex, but not for body armour for our troops."

All this opprobrium stemmed from a single vote by Mr Miller on appropriations for the National Institutes of Health. In a campaign mailer, the unabashedly homophobic Mr Robinson even sought to drop hints questioning his adversary's sexuality, referring to him pointedly as "childless". Mr Miller has since pointed out that the reason he is childless is that his wife had a hysterectomy 20 years ago.

Remind me again...which party is Foley in?

Makes me mighty glad that I don't like in the US; British politics might be full of worthless shits, but its still not that bad...

From the article:The line of attack is remarkably brazen, given that the Republican Party is itself being rocked by a man-boy sex scandal.
As Bottle and I have often said, if you want to know what conservatives are hip-deep in, just look at what they're accusing liberals of.

Source - The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article1904969.ece)



Remind me again...which party is Foley in?

Makes me mighty glad that I don't like in the US; British politics might be full of worthless shits, but its still not that bad...

What do you care? You live in Ireland.

Source - The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article1904969.ece)



Remind me again...which party is Foley in?

Makes me mighty glad that I don't like in the US; British politics might be full of worthless shits, but its still not that bad...
I really, truly hope that Americans are not stupid enough to fall for this shit, and that the elections are decided on political records and beliefs, not mudslinging such as this.

Jeez, one republican congressman gets naughty with some kids and all of a sudden all hell breaks loose! :)

Yay for childish name calling.

Next weeks headline:
'Dems are rubber, Reps are glue'-say Dems

It's amazing isn't it? Combine this with their obvious (and now publically known) disdain for the religious right and the desperation becomes so glaringly obvious as to be comical. At this rate they's be lucky if the democrats don't end up with supermajorities in both houses of congress.

I really, truly hope that Americans are not stupid enough to fall for this shit, and that the elections are decided on political records and beliefs, not mudslinging such as this.

And maybe pigs will learn to fly.

What do you care? You live in Ireland.

See, now that's the kind of blinkered, philistine pig-ignorance I come to expect from apologists for either side. Why is it that everything in the USA is of global importance unless it's unfavorable? "Best nation in the world", or "it's our oil, you just live over it", and "why do they hate us?" but God forbid all those not in the USA forced to pay attention to the USA actually take an interest in the nation's politics. You can't have it both ways.

See, now that's the kind of blinkered, philistine pig-ignorance I come to expect from apologists for either side. Why is it that everything in the USA is of global importance unless it's unfavorable? "Best nation in the world", or "it's our oil, you just live over it", and "why do they hate us?" but God forbid all those not in the USA forced to pay attention to the USA actually take an interest in the nation's politics. You can't have it both ways.

I'm not apologising for anyone. I'm simply curious as to why someone who lives in Ireland follows American politics so closely.

I'm not apologising for anyone. I'm simply curious as to why someone who lives in Ireland follows American politics so closely.

Probably because what happens in America has considerable influence on the rest of the world ?

I've come to the conclusion that all politicians are pedophiles. I have found an absolute truth.

I've come to the conclusion that all politicians are pedophiles. I have found an absolute truth.

Strictly speaking a pedophile only fancies pre-pubescent children. The fondlers of 14 year olds are efebophiles.

What do you care? You live in Ireland.

Actually, Belfast in in the UK, but I digress. But anyway, what happens in America has an effect on other countries bar the United States even without a government that is as pro-American as New Labour.

That's it in a nutshell.:D

Strictly speaking a pedophile only fancies pre-pubescent children. The fondlers of 14 year olds are efebophiles.

Does Foley ever go "giggidy-goo"?

But seriously, if people vote Republican because of this ad campaign especially after Foley's was caught writin' dirty then there's no hope left for the country. It will prove just how much sheeple the family values voters are, Foley and David Kuo's book notwithstanding.

Yay for childish name calling.

Next weeks headline:
'Dems are rubber, Reps are glue'-say Dems

GOP reply to latest Dem attacks: "I know you are, but what am I?"

Someone had to do it.

The problem is that people fall for that crap. No matter how tenuous the connection, it'll be "OMG, she marched with NAMBLA!"

Mark Foley is a Republican. Mark Foley is a pederast, or at least wishes he was. Therefore, all Republicans are pederasts.

I get so angry, so frustrated, so... I don't know.

It susks because I sometimes start thinking thoughts that i"m ashamed of, like, maybe MTAE is on to something with his stupid people as slaves rant. At the very least I think we need to start testing people's mental acuity before allowing them to vote. The only reason these people are campaigning this way is because it works! People are that dumb! I don't know what the solution is, but whatever it is we need to find it soon because we're really fucking shit up bad here. This stuff is only funny until you really think about the consequences.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/WORLD/meast/10/20/iraq.main/newt1.1515.iraq.afp.gi.jpg

The Republicans are, frankly, scumbags. The local political ads are no less untruthful, scummy, or disgusting.

Source - The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article1904969.ece)



Remind me again...which party is Foley in?

Makes me mighty glad that I don't like in the US; British politics might be full of worthless shits, but its still not that bad...

Well, this is the campaign strategy that Karl Rove brought to conservative politics.

What ever bad thing you are, accuse you opponent of being that. If you smell, accuse your opponent of having bad hygene. If you've cheated on your wife and beaten her in public, accuse your opponent of being a bad husband. If you run your house like the court of Calligula, accuse your opponent of not being a family man.

This "frames the debate" making it impossible for the Democrats to bring reality into the picture because however much Democrats respond with actual facts pointing out how absurd it is people keep thinking "well we've already heard that Democrats are the ones favoring pederasty, so now they're accusing the republicans of pederasty? Forget the whole pederasty thing. It's a non-issue."

It's not so much that American Conservatives are brilliant at this sort of thing as it is that American voters are retarded.

This is the clearest case yet of "if you want to know what crimes the Republicans are guilty of, see what they're accusing people of.

BTW, this also works the other way. When the cowardly cruel weasel Dubya starts making a big deal out of what a manly man he thinks he is, then people already have it in their heads "Bush=manly." Then people aren't impressed when Kerry's a decorated war hero because now Kerry is just being desperate trying to point out facts that demonstrate how manly he is. He even seems meek because Bush comes right out and waves his dick around, but Kerry trying to prove that he's far more manly than Bush 'smells' like he's being needy asking people to please like him.

Strictly speaking a pedophile only fancies pre-pubescent children. The fondlers of 14 year olds are efebophiles.

How do you know that? I'm keeping my distance from you.

I've come to the conclusion that all politicians are pedophiles. I have found an absolute truth.
If so, I wish they'd just admit it and start making some progress on the issues important to their demographic. But no, they just sell out their roots once they've got the power to protect their own asses.
How do you know that? I'm keeping my distance from you.

Probably because he was actually paying attention in all the dozens of pedophilia debates we've had on this forum.

The problem is that people fall for that crap. No matter how tenuous the connection, it'll be "OMG, she marched with NAMBLA!"

Yes, that's actually an accusation the Republican candidate for congress here is making against his opponent...minus the "OMG!" ;)

How do you know that? I'm keeping my distance from you.

Yes. Paying attention in school and a desire to actually know what you are talking about, especially if you oppose it, are indeed very scary traits.

Be afraid, DM, be very afraid.

Mark Foley is a Republican. Mark Foley is a pederast, or at least wishes he was. Therefore, all Republicans are pederasts.

"What's a pederast, Walter?" "Shut the fuck up Donny."

Sorry, I absolutely had to.

Mark Foley is a Republican. Mark Foley is a pederast, or at least wishes he was. Therefore, all Republicans are pederasts.

And the conservative line seems to be "Mark Foley is a pederast. Mark Foley is a Republican. Therefore all Democrats are Pederasts."

And the conservative line seems to be "Mark Foley is a pederast. Mark Foley is a Republican. Therefore all Democrats are Pederasts."I think it's more like "Gerry Studds was a pederast 33 years ago, and all the Democrats did was censure him ten years later when it came out and the stupid voters only re-elected him five more times, so therefore all Democrats are pederasts, and Mark Foley never existed."

Yes. Paying attention in school and a desire to actually know what you are talking about, especially if you oppose it, are indeed very scary traits.

Be afraid, DM, be very afraid.

Are you studying psychology or did you have a remarkably thorough general education?

And the conservative line seems to be "Mark Foley is a pederast. Mark Foley is a Republican. Therefore all Democrats are Pederasts."

You forgot "And it's Clinton's fault."

Ken Blackwell is by any and all levels of analysis, in terrible shape. He has managed to lose the vote of a large portion of the Ohio Republicans (espescially the younger, more libertarian kind) as well as demonstrate a total lack of taste.

His opponent, Ted Strickland, has summed what's happened up very succinctly.


I would just like to say something to Mr. Blackwell tonight I've won elections and I've lost elections. It doesnt feel good to lose an election but Ill tell you theres something worse than losing an election. Its losing your own integrity in an attempt to win an election.

Mr. Blackwell is in a death spiral, and is in no way representative of Republicans in Ohio.

From the article:
As Bottle and I have often said, if you want to know what conservatives are hip-deep in, just look at what they're accusing liberals of.

Yeah, I suppose you would believe this satirical article is actually true, if you believe that.

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2006/10/its_the_homos_s_1.html

What do you care? You live in Ireland.

Because the British PM (being, as I am, in the UK) tends to have a habit of following the US President no matter what.

That, and because what happens in the power struggle in the US tends to have enough general worldwide importance as to warrant my attention.

I'm surprised some Bushevik hasn't shown up and told us all not to believe the Independent, because it's just part of the conspiracy supporting terrorism against the US.

i caught 2 or 3 minutes of sean hannity's radio show one day last week. he was going on about how come the democrats arent screaming about nancy pelosi.

the shocking thing she has done was to take money from the freaking aclu foundation and WHOA some time in the past the aclu defended a guy from nambla for something. ohmygod nancy pelosi is taking money from child rapists!!

i thought it was about the stupidest thing ive ever heard from a conservative radio guy. i didnt know it was a new talking point.

I really, truly hope that Americans are not stupid enough to fall for this shit, and that the elections are decided on political records and beliefs, not mudslinging such as this.

Welcome to the wonderful world of American politics. -.-

And, sadly, you hope for too much.

Yeah, I suppose you would believe this satirical article is actually true, if you believe that.

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2006/10/its_the_homos_s_1.html

You think the article is satirical?

Oh dear...

At least one of the few and far between newspapers that had endorsed Ken Blackwell unendorsed him after he made those accusations toward Ted Strickland.

http://www.thecourier.com/opinion/editoral/ar_ED_101806.asp

Source - The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article1904969.ece)

Remind me again...which party is Foley in?

Makes me mighty glad that I don't like in the US; British politics might be full of worthless shits, but its still not that bad...
We have some mudslinging in Canadian politics but certainly not on this level.

I guess this is the earmark of a highly evolved "democracy"? :rolleyes:

We have some mudslinging in Canadian politics but certainly not on this level.

I guess this is the earmark of a highly evolved "democracy"? :rolleyes:

The US isn't a democracy.

We have some mudslinging in Canadian politics but certainly not on this level.

I guess this is the earmark of a highly evolved "democracy"? :rolleyes:

Canadian politics is just sooooo exciting.

Also, we aren't a democracy.

The US isn't a democracy.
You can say that again!! Usually in a "democracy", every vote counts. Apparently that doesn't happen in the US and you end up with a "compassionate conservative" warmonger for a President. Go figure.

the US is a republic.

And the notion that "every vote counts" is ridiculous...there have always been instances of votes 'not counting', and that goes back well before Diebold...

Canadian politics is just sooooo exciting.

Also, we aren't a democracy.
Wow!! Two guys in a row reminding me that the US isn't a "democracy".

I guess that is the problem with Iraq? You have an "undemocratic" President trying to peddle "democracy".

Bush: 'Democracy will succeed' in Iraq (http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/11/19/bush.speech/index.html)

Perhaps they might do better if they were guided by someone who knows what "democracy" is all about?

You can say that again!! Usually in a "democracy", every vote counts. Apparently that doesn't happen in the US and you end up with a "compassionate conservative" warmonger for a President. Go figure.

You miss the point. It's not about voting. Voting doesn't matter in the US. It maybe did back before WWI, but since then no. The average person in the US has no control over the actions of the government whatsoever.

The same is true for the UK.

I don't know enough about Canada to say it's in the same boat, but I imagine it's not to different.

the US is a republic.

And the notion that "every vote counts" is ridiculous...there have always been instances of votes 'not counting', and that goes back well before Diebold...
Yea!! We have a hat trick!!

So, why bother having elections if your vote doesn't count?

You miss the point. It's not about voting. Voting doesn't matter in the US. It maybe did back before WWI, but since then no. The average person in the US has no control over the actions of the government whatsoever.

The same is true for the UK.

I don't know enough about Canada to say it's in the same boat, but I imagine it's not to different.
The UK is not the same as the US.

Canada and the UK use the parlimentary system.

The UK is not the same as the US.

Canada and the UK use the parlimentary system.

I don't think that's quite what Lacadaemon was meaning. I think the UK and USA are quite similar in the fact that government is quite out of control of most ordinary people. In the USA it's generally the result of gerrymandering, the electoral college and dodgy elections. In the UK it's pretty much the result of a complete lack of democracy (look at the House of Lords - Canadians are lucky, you don't have to put up with over 700 appointed senile old folls in your upper house) and First Past the Post. It's possibly similar in Canada with FPTP, but because of the BQ's strength in Quebec and the NDP elsewhere, you don't always get majority federal governments, at least recently.

I just love the smell of cynicism in the mornin' :D

I'm not apologising for anyone. I'm simply curious as to why someone who lives in Ireland follows American politics so closely.
Maybe he feels obliged to, 'cause most people in America don't follow it at all. They're just happy to stick their blinkers on and parrot Fox gibberish.

Yea!! We have a hat trick!!

So, why bother having elections if your vote doesn't count?

I'd like to see one instance of an election being held.....and nobody voted. Be pretty funny.

The US isn't a democracy.

Indeed. Last I heard, it was a republic.