NationStates Jolt Archive

Why do some American parents choose to educate their children themselves instead of sending them to school?

Are the public schools in America that atrocious?

Home schooling also tends to involve private tutors.

Public schools may or may not be atrocious - mine wasn't, either in educational quality or crime safety and such - but I can definitely see how others are not acceptable to concerned parents on either count.

Why do some American parents choose to educate their children themselves instead of sending them to school?

Are the public schools in America that atrocious?

If I were to have kids, I would definately Home School them and that's a big IF.

The teacher's are under paid and under appreciated. Parents aren't being parents, meaning that some of these kids are just plain out bastards and mean as heck. Classrooms are over crowded. Politicians need to stay out of the Education system and allow the schools to educate. The list goes on and on and on.

I would much rather have my wife, if I had a wife, stay at home to bring him/her up morally and responsibly right. I would help with the home schooling after work. That way, my child would have the attention he/she deserves with less distractions and wouldn't need to worry about the corruption of other children effecting and spreading to my kid.

I know, it's a big generalization, but maybe some of you understand the point I'm making. :)

If I were to have kids, I would definately Home School them and that's a big IF.

The teacher's are under paid and under appreciated. Parents aren't being parents, meaning that some of these kids are just plain out bastards and mean as heck. Classrooms are over crowded. Politicians need to stay out of the Education system and allow the schools to educate. The list goes on and on and on.

I would much rather have my wife, if I had a wife, stay at home to bring him/her up morally and responsibly right. I would help with the home schooling after work. That way, my child would have the attention he/she deserves with less distractions and wouldn't need to worry about the corruption of other children effecting and spreading to my kid.

I know, it's a big generalization, but maybe some of you understand the point I'm making. :)

Shouldn't children be exposed to corruption so they learn to avoid it? Maybe?

Are the public schools in America that atrocious?
Public schools everywhere are atrocious, because your kids are subject to the ideological whims of the teachers' unions.

I homeschool my children because the schools around here are inadequate.

Public schools everywhere are atrocious, because your kids are subject to the ideological whims of the teachers' unions.
This isn't true everywhere. Maybe in the US and Canada, but not in many other countries with education, such as Japan and Finland.

Shouldn't children be exposed to corruption so they learn to avoid it? Maybe?

I could teach of the corruption.......I would also teach them the difference between right and wrong.....and also about what a lot seem to be lacking is "common sense"

I could teach of the corruption.......I would also teach them the difference between right and wrong.....and also about what a lot seem to be lacking is "common sense"

sheltering your children is not a good way of educating them.

I homeschool my children because the schools around here are inadequate.

I was homeschooled. Same reason --^

Why do some American parents choose to educate their children themselves instead of sending them to school?

Are the public schools in America that atrocious?

Yes. :)

I intend to have my children attend public school. I feel that schools offer lessons every bit as important as textbook knowledge that home schooling can't teach. But, as my mother did, I also intend to supplement my children's education at home. :)

I don't have kids, but if I did, there's no way in h*ll I'd send them to public school. They were crap when I went to them, and they've only gotten worse since then. I've probably send them to private school, because I doubt that I'd have either the time or the competence in all subjects to do a proper job homeschooling.

This isn't true everywhere. Maybe in the US and Canada, but not in many other countries with education, such as Japan and Finland.
Alright - potentially atrocious, then.

Why do some American parents choose to educate their children themselves instead of sending them to school?

Are the public schools in America that atrocious?


public schools often get distracted from teaching the basics of what a child needs to learn to grow. public schools also, in some areas, can offend the sensibilities of some parents/students with what they choose to teach as appropriate material.

besides, there are many forms of homeschooling where it is not just the parents teaching the kids. homeschooling often involves tutoring and includes well prepared lesson plans and assignments.

I myself was homeschooled from 8th-9th grades. I lived in a very rural part of Washington state, the Junior High school there was absolutely horrible. My mother was an ex-English professor turned stay-at-home mom, so she took it upon herself to educate me for those years. I had tutors for math and Spanish, and she taught me everything else. We even went on a "field trip" to New Mexico to study the native cultures there.

It was her intent to school me through grade 12, but she wasn't able to due to illness, unfortunately. I went back to public school as a Sophomore and absolutely kicked everyone's butt (at least in the Humanities classes.)

I honestly believe that if I had stayed in that wreck of a Junior High I wouldn't have had the opportunities and insights that I had from I was homeschooling. It also made me appreciate my mother a lot more, something that snotty teenagers (such as I was) rarely find.

Anyway, that's my contribution. :p

I could teach of the corruption.......I would also teach them the difference between right and wrong.....and also about what a lot seem to be lacking is "common sense"

How about learning how to socially interact with their peers?

How about learning how to socially interact with their peers?

that is an invalid criticism of homeschooling, it's the same one everyone uses though, it's so funny.

do home-schooled kids have a social life?
i wouldn't teach my kids. school is good as a preperation for life, cause you have to face "unfair" teachers and stuff. plus, teachers are better trained to teach stuff in my opinion.
and you can't pass notes during the lessons if you're the only student. that sucks :D

Some--not all, maybe not even a majority, but some--choose to home-school because their religious beliefs conflict with what is taught in the public schools. That's a travesty in my opinion. Others, as has been expressed in this thread, choose to do so because of the shoddy condition of the public schools. My only worry with that is that I don't know how many parents have the necessary background to do a good job of teaching their kids, especially as they get older.

that is an invalid criticism of homeschooling, it's the same one everyone uses though, it's so funny.

Criticism? I was asking.

and you can't pass notes during the lessons if you're the only student. that sucks :D


No, but you can watch the World Series and write your papers at the same time. :D

Criticism? I was asking.
sorry, I am used to the "your kids won't know how to make friends" thing.

my kids are involved in activities outside of the house where they make friends, they go to homeschool co-op where they have different teachers, and they are out in the community every single day learning about life. ;)


do home-schooled kids have a social life?
i wouldn't teach my kids. school is good as a preperation for life, cause you have to face "unfair" teachers and stuff. plus, teachers are better trained to teach stuff in my opinion.
and you can't pass notes during the lessons if you're the only student. that sucks :D
my kids can pass notes but they don't choose to, since it's easier just to finish their work and go play, they actually enjoy learning though....

yes, they have a social life, school isn't better preparation for life than actually living is, and I am waiting for the day when I am accused of being "unfair", I am pretty sure it will happen at some point.

Some--not all, maybe not even a majority, but some--choose to home-school because their religious beliefs conflict with what is taught in the public schools. That's a travesty in my opinion. Others, as has been expressed in this thread, choose to do so because of the shoddy condition of the public schools. My only worry with that is that I don't know how many parents have the necessary background to do a good job of teaching their kids, especially as they get older.
most of the homeschool families I know don't "go it alone" we have co-op's and other resources.

that is an invalid criticism of homeschooling, it's the same one everyone uses though, it's so funny.

Really? That was the most important lesson I personally got from school. Learning how to work with people you can't stand and still produce adequate results, defending yourself where necessary, and, as I went to an all girls school, social tactics played a huge part as well.

I will definitely send my kids to school. Not only would I not be able to provide the level of education a school provides (I neither have a science lab, nor a pottery furnace, let alone the amount of instruments or even the sports equipment at home), I want my children prepared for life, not just stuffed full of knowledge.

If I were to have kids, I would definately Home School them and that's a big IF.

The teacher's are under paid and under appreciated. Parents aren't being parents, meaning that some of these kids are just plain out bastards and mean as heck. Classrooms are over crowded. Politicians need to stay out of the Education system and allow the schools to educate. The list goes on and on and on.

I would much rather have my wife, if I had a wife, stay at home to bring him/her up morally and responsibly right. I would help with the home schooling after work. That way, my child would have the attention he/she deserves with less distractions and wouldn't need to worry about the corruption of other children effecting and spreading to my kid.

I know, it's a big generalization, but maybe some of you understand the point I'm making. :)
Indoctrination is not something that should be done in home schooling. "Morally and responsibly right" sounds a lot like that.

If you send a child to a public school, they're going to be able to form their own opinions, and choose for themselves what is actually right and wrong.

If you keep them at home, they'll just get your views on the subject, plus they won't be able to socialise, and will probably have poor social skills later on in life.

Really? That was the most important lesson I personally got from school. Learning how to work with people you can't stand and still produce adequate results, defending yourself where necessary, and, as I went to an all girls school, social tactics played a huge part as well.
I just find it funny though that people assume that because they go to school and then back home and that's all of their socialization that it would be the same for homeschool kids, that they would just stay home all day. I think my kids have more opportunities to socialize than public school kids because when they are with other kids it's not "sit down and listen to the teacher", it's more active.

I will definitely send my kids to school. Not only would I not be able to provide the level of education a school provides (I neither have a science lab, nor a pottery furnace, let alone the amount of instruments or even the sports equipment at home), I want my children prepared for life, not just stuffed full of knowledge.
again, just because they are homeschooled doesn't mean all of their learning is at home sitting at the kitchen table with me, they go to co-op, in the summer the oldest goes to community college, she is more prepared for everyday life than most of her friends that go to public school. I guess though I should ask what you mean by "prepared for life".

Maybe if I was homeschooled, I wouldn't have problems with anxiety & depression today.

How about learning how to socially interact with their peers?

By getting your ass kicked by them everyday for no reason?

Indoctrination is not something that should be done in home schooling. "Morally and responsibly right" sounds a lot like that.

If you send a child to a public school, they're going to be able to form their own opinions, and choose for themselves what is actually right and wrong.

If you keep them at home, they'll just get your views on the subject, plus they won't be able to socialise, and will probably have poor social skills later on in life.

If they are put in a restrictive homeschooling environment, you could also say the same if they were put in a restrictive public or private school environment.


I assure you my children have their own opinions, they are welcome to choose what they believe as long as they can keep up their end of the debate at the dinner table.

I don't know where the "poor social skills" thing comes from....it's still funny how many people say that.

By getting your ass kicked by them everyday for no reason?
maybe that's some of those "social skills" everyone keeps talking about.

If my wife can find a job that will pay enough to allow me to be a stay-at-home dad, then I will home school my son. Otherwise, we're going to bite the bullet and send him to public school.

I don't think the education he would receive in a state school is horrible, but I don't want him to have to go through "indoctrination." We can help him with social skills by having him volunteer for sports or for events and such, but I could focus on his individual learning -- speed up or slow down as necessary, keep his curriculum free of extraneous propaganda, show him how to identify extraneous propaganda, etc.

I just find it funny though that people assume that because they go to school and then back home and that's all of their socialization that it would be the same for homeschool kids, that they would just stay home all day. I think my kids have more opportunities to socialize than public school kids because when they are with other kids it's not "sit down and listen to the teacher", it's more active.

again, just because they are homeschooled doesn't mean all of their learning is at home sitting at the kitchen table with me, they go to co-op, in the summer the oldest goes to community college, she is more prepared for everyday life than most of her friends that go to public school. I guess though I should ask what you mean by "prepared for life".

I'm trying to find a way of saying that without sounding callous...

When kids are young, their immune system is still developing. They tend to catch every bug that goes around, and even some up with some of their own it would sometimes seem. Some parents react to that by having the pills and drops always ready to administer at the slightest cough, and desinfect house and kids on a regular (hourly) basis.
Others see it as a normal phase in life, and let nature take its course for the most part. They let the kids play in the rain and dirt, stroke every dog they can get hold of even if they then have a sandwich without washing their hands and don't regard a cold and a fever as the end of the world.
The kids who got exposed to bacteria and who were allowed to be sick will be the ones who eventually have a stronger immune system and better general health. They'll be less likely to develop allergies and food intolerances. They've immunised themselves against a great deal of bugs and viruses at a young age.

I regard school as something very similar : it's exposure to negative inlfuences. Be that unfair teachers, be it nasty classmates, be it the test they just flunked or the bully they have to deal with. It's a daily exposure to all those bugs they'll meet again later in life when they have a job and live their lives.
Socialising is one thing, it's generally positive, it's generally with people you like or at least tolerate (and who like and tolerate you). School (and later on work) is a lot about dealing with people you don't like, doing things you may not always find enjoyable, and having to be able to handle authority. You can always tell your boss that he's wrong, but you have to know how.

That's the reason why my kids will go to school. Because that is something they can never learn at home.

I'm trying to find a way of saying that without sounding callous...

When kids are young, their immune system is still developing. They tend to catch every bug that goes around, and even some up with some of their own it would sometimes seem. Some parents react to that by having the pills and drops always ready to administer at the slightest cough, and desinfect house and kids on a regular (hourly) basis.
Others see it as a normal phase in life, and let nature take its course for the most part. They let the kids play in the rain and dirt, stroke every dog they can get hold of even if they then have a sandwich without washing their hands and don't regard a cold and a fever as the end of the world.
The kids who got exposed to bacteria and who were allowed to be sick will be the ones who eventually have a stronger immune system and better general health. They'll be less likely to develop allergies and food intolerances. They've immunised themselves against a great deal of bugs and viruses at a young age.

I regard school as something very similar : it's exposure to negative inlfuences. Be that unfair teachers, be it nasty classmates, be it the test they just flunked or the bully they have to deal with. It's a daily exposure to all those bugs they'll meet again later in life when they have a job and live their lives.
Socialising is one thing, it's generally positive, it's generally with people you like or at least tolerate (and who like and tolerate you). School (and later on work) is a lot about dealing with people you don't like, doing things you may not always find enjoyable, and having to be able to handle authority. You can always tell your boss that he's wrong, but you have to know how.

That's the reason why my kids will go to school. Because that is something they can never learn at home.

I understand that, I am just saying that I don't need to send my kids to school to teach them to deal with adversity, they find their own adversity other places. I don't see the point in sending kids to school just so that they will have the opportunity to be bullied (not that I think that's what you are saying, but I have people tell me "I send them to school so they can get picked on, it happened to me and it will happen to them, I can teach them extra stuff later if they want")

There can be great homeschools, and awful. Much like any other educational institution. Even homeschools are somewhat regulated (certain things must be taught if the child is to remain home), but much less so.

In my area, the kids I know who were home schooled achieve much more because of the style of their parents. They were all homeschooled for religious reasons (there is no good Catholic school nearby), but religion didn't play a large role in their education, surprisingly.

The public schools in my town are very good, with 98% going into universities, and upwards of 30% going to top universities (ivy league or prestigious private schools). Those attending state schools tend to go into programs that are highly respected (education at CCSU, nursing at SCSU, engineering or business at UCONN). That explains why there is very little home schooling in my area. The major reason I have found for home schooling nationwide is poor school systems.

The best solution, in my opinion, is to follow LG's plan. Send the kids to public school, but continue to "teach" when they are home...go to the zoo, museaums, read together, do the crossword with them, flashcards, etc.

I suppose I learned a couple of useful "social skills" in public school. I learned how to whoop the tar out of guys twice my size, and I learned that you can't rely on the authorities (teacher, principal, etc). Any other social skills didn't come until college, when I actually DID have to work with other students instead of just watching them to make sure nobody stabbed me.

I understand that, I am just saying that I don't need to send my kids to school to teach them to deal with adversity, they find their own adversity other places. I don't see the point in sending kids to school just so that they will have the opportunity to be bullied (not that I think that's what you are saying, but I have people tell me "I send them to school so they can get picked on, it happened to me and it will happen to them, I can teach them extra stuff later if they want")

Now, one sec there. The fact that I will send my kids to school does not mean that I will lay back and not teach them anything else.
For one thing, they WILL grow up bilingual. And being the proud little know-it-all that I am, they'll be sure to get comprehensive answers to any questions they might have, on all topics. My mom used to do my homework with me to make sure I understood and not merely learned by heart, and I'll do the same with my kids.

But I can't create a school/work environment at home and I don't think that would be right, either. Home is where you can relax and put your feet up, home is a safe place and a positive place.
School/work is where you have to go each day, it's where you have to be alert, it's where you learn diplomacy and social skills.

Now, one sec there. The fact that I will send my kids to school does not mean that I will lay back and not teach them anything else.
For one thing, they WILL grow up bilingual. And being the proud little know-it-all that I am, they'll be sure to get comprehensive answers to any questions they might have, on all topics. My mom used to do my homework with me to make sure I understood and not merely learned by heart, and I'll do the same with my kids.

But I can't create a school/work environment at home and I don't think that would be right, either. Home is where you can relax and put your feet up, home os a safe place and a positive place.
School/work is where you have to go each day, it's where you have to be alert, it's where you learn diplomacy and social skills.

we can agree to disagree.
;)

I should point out though that our home environment isn't that much different than most others, learning is a lifestyle around here, it's not work, it's what we do, we eat, we sleep, we learn.

School/work is where you have to go each day, it's where you have to be alert, it's where you learn diplomacy and social skills.

Or skills in hand-to-hand combat. ;)

If they are put in a restrictive homeschooling environment, you could also say the same if they were put in a restrictive public or private school environment.
There are very few restrictive public schools... private schools are different matter.
I assure you my children have their own opinions, they are welcome to choose what they believe as long as they can keep up their end of the debate at the dinner table.
Fair enough, but you're only going to have a couple of opinions around the dinner table of one house.

Send them to a school and suddenly there'll be many more, and they can analyse and see the good and bad points of arguments more easily in later life, when there are many points of view, that way.
I don't know where the "poor social skills" thing comes from....it's still funny how many people say that.
Life is about dealing with people of differing opinions and ways of life to yourself.

Homeschool a child and fine, you have co-ops and such, but on the other hand, you will very rarely meet people with very different lifestyles that way.

That's part of the beauty of public schooling, it's a mixture of different cultures and lifestyle, and you have to learn to deal with that.

Or skills in hand-to-hand combat. ;)

I never needed those...

There are very few restrictive public schools... private schools are different matter.
telling my kid not to read because she will make the other kids "feel dumb" is too restrictive for my taste.

Fair enough, but you're only going to have a couple of opinions around the dinner table of one house.
I get enough of the gist of the "other side" around here to play devil's advocate, and then at times I make up my own strawmen just to see if my kids can dismantle my arguement.



Life is about dealing with people of differing opinions and ways of life to yourself.
no, life is about knowing who you are and how to compromise without compromising your own values.

Homeschool a child and fine, you have co-ops and such, but on the other hand, you will very rarely meet people with very different lifestyles that way.

That's part of the beauty of public schooling, it's a mixture of different cultures and lifestyle, and you have to learn to deal with that.

how many different lifestyles and cultures do you deal with in a day?
can you give me examples?

I understand that, I am just saying that I don't need to send my kids to school to teach them to deal with adversity, they find their own adversity other places. I don't see the point in sending kids to school just so that they will have the opportunity to be bullied (not that I think that's what you are saying, but I have people tell me "I send them to school so they can get picked on, it happened to me and it will happen to them, I can teach them extra stuff later if they want")

I am certainly not going to argue that schools can do the deed alone. Children need more than schools can provide. And with each passing year, I'm more and more convinced that I am going to have long and loud arguments with many teachers and school administrators. Public School education needs to be supplemented by parents. That's almost universal. Students who do well in school and afterward very rarely have unconcerned, uninvolved parents.

On the other hand, does home schooling provide everything a child needs to know to get a thorough education and to succeed afterward? I think that also depends on the parents. But in the case of home schooling, concern and involvement aren't enough. Knowledge, openmindedness and a willingness to learn from other parents who have done homeschooling are also necessary traits.

Not everybody is as versatile as you are, Smunkee. *nod*

Homeschool a child and fine, you have co-ops and such, but on the other hand, you will very rarely meet people with very different lifestyles that way.

Ah. But do the parents that homeschool their children WANT to expose their children to ideas that vastly differ from their own ?
Do they want children to learn that another lifestyle or religion is not "evil" or "wrong" ?

I fear a significant part doesn't.

I am certainly not going to argue that schools can do the deed alone. Children need more than schools can provide. And with each passing year, I'm more and more convinced that I am going to have long and loud arguments with many teachers and school administrators. Public School education needs to be supplemented by parents. That's almost universal. Students who do well in school and afterward very rarely have unconcerned, uninvolved parents.

On the other hand, does home schooling provide everything a child needs to know to get a thorough education and to succeed afterward? I think that also depends on the parents. But in the case of home schooling, concern and involvement aren't enough. Knowledge, openmindedness and a willingness to learn from other parents who have done homeschooling are also necessary traits.

Not everybody is as versatile as you are, Smunkee. *nod*

I realize that homeschooling is not an ideal or even practical solution for everyone to the education question, and believe me I don't want to try to recruit someone who is not 100% on board and willing to make the neccessary sacrifices, I am more defending homeschool than putting down public school.

It's one thing to me when someone says "I think public school is the best choice for my kid" than when they say "I think I will send my kid to public school because homeschooled kids are social deviants."

you get me? :P

I realize that homeschooling is not an ideal or even practical solution for everyone to the education question, and believe me I don't want to try to recruit someone who is not 100% on board and willing to make the neccessary sacrifices, I am more defending homeschool than putting down public school.

It's one thing to me when someone says "I think public school is the best choice for my kid" than when they say "I think I will send my kid to public school because homeschooled kids are social deviants."

you get me? :P

I got you. I went to public school and I'm a social deviant. :D

I got you. I went to public school and I'm a social deviant. :D

Ditto! :)

I got you. I went to public school and I'm a social deviant. :D

me too ;)

I am certainly not going to argue that schools can do the deed alone. Children need more than schools can provide. And with each passing year, I'm more and more convinced that I am going to have long and loud arguments with many teachers and school administrators. Public School education needs to be supplemented by parents. That's almost universal. Students who do well in school and afterward very rarely have unconcerned, uninvolved parents.

On the other hand, does home schooling provide everything a child needs to know to get a thorough education and to succeed afterward? I think that also depends on the parents. But in the case of home schooling, concern and involvement aren't enough. Knowledge, openmindedness and a willingness to learn from other parents who have done homeschooling are also necessary traits.

Not everybody is as versatile as you are, Smunkee. *nod*
hmm...maybe one day I'll have the little goofballs in one of my classes. I don't think it would be difficult to tell...they'll be the ones covered in mud.

Ah. But do the parents that homeschool their children WANT to expose their children to ideas that vastly differ from their own ?
Do they want children to learn that another lifestyle or religion is not "evil" or "wrong" ?

I fear a significant part doesn't.

I don't know about others, but my teachers in public school never truly appreciated a student that had his/her own opinions and ideas and expressed them freely...they had a tendency to get sent to the principal's office.

hmm...maybe one day I'll have the little goofballs in one of my classes. I don't think it would be difficult to tell...they'll be the ones covered in mud.

Maybe you should start examining your insurance policy now. :)

I don't know about others, but my teachers in public school never truly appreciated a student that had his/her own opinions and ideas and expressed them freely...they had a tendency to get sent to the principal's office.

True. But there is a big difference between a teacher you leave at the school when you go home, and a teacher that *owns* your home.

Maybe you should start examining your insurance policy now. :)

they'd be in high school by the time I got them. The truly devious behavior would just be beginning:)

how many different lifestyles and cultures do you deal with in a day?
can you give me examples?

At school? Or at work now?


Ok, at school I was friends with a girl who was a Jehova's Witness, I helped another of my classmates to deal with her relationship with her mother (and called an ambulance after she had attempted suicide), my school was a Catholic school and we assisted one of the sisters in her fight to end the compulsory celibacy for priests, monks and nuns, one of our teachers kept a little zoo at school (mice, rats, gerbils, fish, a lobster, turtles, snakes, cicadas, toads, and rabits) so we would help feed them and take care of them. During vacation, students were allowed to take some of the animals home to take care of them there, the rest spent the vacations at this teacher's house; we had one teenage pregnancy, we had a school drop-out due to drugs, we had a classmate dying in a car crash, during the civil war in Uganda the school (or rather, the boarding school associated with the school) temporarily adopted two girls to get them out of the country, one of them went to our class for 2 years, there were divorces, mental problems, eating disorders, religious problems, financial problems.... plus the everyday stuff.

At work, I've got two gay colleagues, I work in an international team (8 nationalilties altogether), my teamleader is a self-centered bitch, my colleague just had a baby and they're building a house (not ready yet but they already live in it), which means that often enough I have to do her workload because she just can't make it, one of my colleagues never wears any deodorant and doesn't regularly change his shirts, either, two of my colleagues fell out a while back and getting along with both requires a lot of careful attention to every word, look and gesture, another one of my colleagues keeps trying to get me to join some sort of Wicca cult... plus the everyday stuff.

When I have little izatepopotlies I'll just teach them how to use the internet and the Weekly World News for back up. Should be enough.

I like my school.. *shrugs*

I like my school.. *shrugs*

I still love mine. I come back to it every couple of years, either for the christmas market or the summer party, it's so nice meeting my teachers again. :)
I had some terrible days at that school, but I also had some of the best days of my life there.

At school? Or at work now?


Ok, at school I was friends with a girl who was a Jehova's Witness, I helped another of my classmates to deal with her relationship with her mother (and called an ambulance after she had attempted suicide), my school was a Catholic school and we assisted one of the sisters in her fight to end the compulsory celibacy for priests, monks and nuns, one of our teachers kept a little zoo at school (mice, rats, gerbils, fish, a lobster, turtles, snakes, cicadas, toads, and rabits) so we would help feed them and take care of them. During vacation, students were allowed to take some of the animals home to take care of them there, the rest spent the vacations at this teacher's house; we had one teenage pregnancy, we had a school drop-out due to drugs, we had a classmate dying in a car crash, during the civil war in Uganda the school (or rather, the boarding school associated with the school) temporarily adopted two girls to get them out of the country, one of them went to our class for 2 years, there were divorces, mental problems, eating disorders, religious problems, financial problems.... plus the everyday stuff.

At work, I've got two gay colleagues, I work in an international team (8 nationalilties altogether), my teamleader is a self-centered bitch, my colleague just had a baby and they're building a house (not ready yet but they already live in it), which means that often enough I have to do her workload because she just can't make it, one of my colleagues never wears any deodorant and doesn't regularly change his shirts, either, two of my colleagues fell out a while back and getting along with both requires a lot of careful attention to every word, look and gesture, another one of my colleagues keeps trying to get me to join some sort of Wicca cult... plus the everyday stuff.

at 3 and 5 I can't say my kids have had so many life experiences. We have a neighbor who is a satanist, a few of the kids in one of the homeschool groups we are in belong to a commune, they deal with their own trying to fit in with their diet, they know kids whose parents are divorced and they have a friend named Kaylee who has 2 dad's and a mom. I don't know that knowing those people is teaching them much though.

My wife was homeschooled. Her language skills are decent but her math and science are horrible. Her brother is poor in all areas except in mechanics. Some neighbors of ours have homeschooled kids that are barely literate. One of my professors daughter does a combo home/public schooling (for access to equipment) and excells in all areas.

It all depends on the parents. Whether home or public schooled, they need to be involved in the education and not just blaming the school/teachers.

I feel like I learned very little in public school. I learned a lot more on my own. My parents had such hectic schedules I learned most things on my own. I spent most of my time with my nose in a book.(though it did help that they taught me to read at 3)
Of course, being such a bookworm did make me a little socially inept. I also fought everything that moved. Maybe that's why I learned so little in the classroom. I spent all my time in the pricipals office.

at 3 and 5 I can't say my kids have had so many life experiences. We have a neighbor who is a satanist, a few of the kids in one of the homeschool groups we are in belong to a commune, they deal with their own trying to fit in with their diet, they know kids whose parents are divorced and they have a friend named Kaylee who has 2 dad's and a mom. I don't know that knowing those people is teaching them much though.

Right.

Don't take offence as I don't mean any by this, but the potential for a varied social experience is a lot less in home-schooling, than it is in public/private school, no?

at 3 and 5 I can't say my kids have had so many life experiences. We have a neighbor who is a satanist, a few of the kids in one of the homeschool groups we are in belong to a commune, they deal with their own trying to fit in with their diet, they know kids whose parents are divorced and they have a friend named Kaylee who has 2 dad's and a mom. I don't know that knowing those people is teaching them much though.

Knowing them is one thing. Dealing with the events (divorce of parents, death of student, eating disorder that turned very severe, religious differences, lifestyles, etc) as a group is something very different. I had hated the girl who developed the eating disorder.... our class reacted positive to her weight loss at first, then alienated, distant, almost hostile. That's when I decided to try and befriend her. Which in turn meant I suddenly was an outcast as well. She had a breakdown, was hospitalised, finally left school for a year, but I remained an outcast for 2 years.
I learned more about group dynamics in those two years then ever before or ever afterwards.

Right.

Don't take offence as I don't mean any by this, but the potential for a varied social experience is a lot less in home-schooling, than it is in public/private school, no?

why? do we live on a different planet? are we chained to the house? are we only allowed to socialize with other homeschoolers? are all homeschoolers the same?

why? do we live on a different planet? are we chained to the house? are we only allowed to socialize with other homeschoolers? are all homeschoolers the same?

Potential, smunkee, potential. That's all I'm asking.

It's like saying you can get a world opinion by just reading Time.

Whereas reading Time, The Economist, New Scientist andNewsweek would leave you no better.

True. But there is a big difference between a teacher you leave at the school when you go home, and a teacher that *owns* your home.

It depends. In my case, my mother taught me to have my own ideas and to not be afraid to express them. She also taught me to question authority (specifcally the U.S. government) and to be a relatively open-minded person.

There are good teachers and bad teachers in every system-public, private, homeschool, charter, etc.

Anyway, I forgot what my original point was so I'll just pour myself another cup of coffee and come back later. :p

Potential, smunkee, potential.

I don't think it's something I can quantify based on my own experience though I think they are exposed to more of the world than public school kids if not only for the reason that we are out in the world more than the public school kids.

I still love mine. I come back to it every couple of years, either for the christmas market or the summer party, it's so nice meeting my teachers again. :)
I had some terrible days at that school, but I also had some of the best days of my life there.

Exactly the same here.

The teacher are great and you can talk to them like they were never a teacher.. like today, we talked to the science teacher about hickies, last week there was a conversation with the art teacher about becoming a stripper. :p

I don't know that knowing those people is teaching them much though.

Acceptance, tollerance?

Acceptance, tollerance?

I don't teach acceptance and tolerance, I teach "love your neighbor" ;) it's not quite the same.

I should point out though that "varied social experiences" isn't really a goal in my homeschooling.

I don't teach acceptance and tolerance, I teach "love your neighbor" ;) it's not quite the same.

I learned that too. I had a very cute neighbor.

Exactly the same here.

The teacher are great and you can talk to them like they were never a teacher.. like today, we talked to the science teacher about hickies, last week there was a conversation with the art teacher about becoming a stripper. :p

Our art teacher was the coolest lesbian I ever met! She adored the Greek classics, and Renaissance statues. She was fascinated by the human body, and she taught me so much about how to draw and paint anatomy, how to drape fabrics with your pencil.... she was one of my favourite teachers ever.
We also had a German teacher who I remember fondly. She loved discussions and debattes, she had a very comprehensive approach to knowledge, she always wanted to see it used. If you debatte a topic, you need its history, its current relevance, its social impact, religious aspects, political potential, every angle has to be considered. Those were the lessons I loved, and I loved the teachers for heir passion about their subjects.

I learned that too. I had a very cute neighbor.

*lol
Do you still have his address? ;)

I still love mine. I come back to it every couple of years, either for the christmas market or the summer party, it's so nice meeting my teachers again. :)
I had some terrible days at that school, but I also had some of the best days of my life there.

That's why I sometimes meet with some old friends, drink a few cups of Feuerzangenbowle and talk about how much fun we had at school. We all have a good time, except Pfeiffer (for whatever reason).

That's why I sometimes meet with some old friends, drink a few cups of Feuerzangenbowle and talk about how much fun we had at school. We all have a good time, except Pfeiffer (for whatever reason).

I think he had some problems with Schnauz, didn't he? :p


Thanks for that.... that was the first time I laughed out loud today! :D

I don't teach acceptance and tolerance, I teach "love your neighbor" ;) it's not quite the same.

Aye?
I should point out though that "varied social experiences" isn't really a goal in my homeschooling.

Social experiences are important, smunkee!

I know you're a great teacher, my god, look at your kids! But they should be learning how to interact, so they can use what they know.

..

I just remembered that your kids are 5 and 3.. *rubs chin* Is social development anywhere in their future?

*is too sick to know if he's making sense*

*lol
Do you still have his address? ;)

Was a she. It was a long time ago, I'm pretty sure she's moved by now and has two kids.

Our art teacher was the coolest lesbian I ever met! She adored the Greek classics, and Renaissance statues. She was fascinated by the human body, and she taught me so much about how to draw and paint anatomy, how to drape fabrics with your pencil.... she was one of my favourite teachers ever.
There's something about art teachers.. they just.. know everything. Showed her a sketch for the project we're working on, she made it go from a dull sketch to a winding road in the countryside in two seconds..

We also had a German teacher who I remember fondly. She loved discussions and debattes, she had a very comprehensive approach to knowledge, she always wanted to see it used. If you debatte a topic, you need its history, its current relevance, its social impact, religious aspects, political potential, every angle has to be considered. Those were the lessons I loved, and I loved the teachers for heir passion about their subjects.
Reminds me of my government teacher. *nods*

As much as I support homeschooling, I loved my old teachers. I heard over facebook that my senior year psychology teachers is retiring -The man was nutty as a jar of cashews, and the funniest teacher I ever had. Me and some members of my graduating class are going to pay him a "visit" before the high school lets out.

As has been said, there can be great home-schooling and terrible, just as there are great public schools and terribles ones. If you're going to home-school, it's a major commitment, as I think Smunkee will attest. It takes real involvement.

And if you don't like your local public schools, think about why, and get involved, try to change what you don't like. That takes involvement, too. The PTA is a cliche, I suppose, but an active group could make a difference.

After all, kids aren't just about the fun of conceiving them and the pleasures of child-birth (well, one out of two ...). You got 'em, it's your responsibility to bring them up to be people you wouldn't be embarrassed to be seen with (of course, between the ages of 12 and 20, that's how they think of you, but ...).

telling my kid not to read because she will make the other kids "feel dumb" is too restrictive for my taste.
And do schools around you really do that?

Because it certainly doesn't happen over here.
I get enough of the gist of the "other side" around here to play devil's advocate, and then at times I make up my own strawmen just to see if my kids can dismantle my arguement.
Not really the same, to be honest. You're the same one person in their eyes - and hence easier to argue and deal with than a group of many others with their own views, some of whom they won't know very well at all, and will have to deal with politely nonetheless.
how many different lifestyles and cultures do you deal with in a day?
can you give me examples?
I deal with a fair amount of immigrants from Northern Europe every day, as well as a lot of Arab Muslims, some of whom are very conservative in their views, a fair few ardent nationalists a day, and some Stalinists too.

I would much rather have my wife, if I had a wife, stay at home to bring him/her up morally and responsibly right.


Don't you think your wife might have something to say about that? Why not you?

why? do we live on a different planet? are we chained to the house? are we only allowed to socialize with other homeschoolers? are all homeschoolers the same?
With homeschooling generally they know other kids through groups so then they will have that much in common in Public school there are people that would never do the same stuff with you and then (especailly in the younger grades) you are expected to work with them. The kids why skip and never show up, control freaks, idiots, emos, skaters, punks, goths, hip-hop, scene, preps, quiets kids, poor kids, rich kids, brownnosers, middle class, kids who have problems speaking English. And you have all the stress of "I have to do good at this" so you learn to help them stay at the same level as you and try and make it work. Then you have teachers who are unfair and will punish you for stupid reasons, and confiscate stuff (my book!) for no reason (it was in my pile of stuff it was under a pencil case and shut! But you have to learn to deal with them. Generally, I think with... I'm not sure who but I think it was CabraWest, send them to school but enrich their education at home.

And do schools around you really do that?

Because it certainly doesn't happen over here.
my daughter's teacher pulled her out in the hall in PreK and told her not to read in class because it made the other kids feel dumb, she then called me up to school and told me to quit teaching her things at home because I was going to make her a nerd and that the other kids would suffer self esteem issues trying to live up to her example, and if I could please ask her to 'mind her vocabulary' around the other kids so that they don't feel like they are stupid.



Not really the same, to be honest. You're the same one person in their eyes - and hence easier to argue and deal with than a group of many others with their own views, some of whom they won't know very well at all, and will have to deal with politely nonetheless.
I am sure when they get a bit older they will have more experiences to debate with others. They are not able to join the local debate group at their current age.

I deal with a fair amount of immigrants from Northern Europe every day, as well as a lot of Arab Muslims, some of whom are very conservative in their views, a fair few ardent nationalists a day, and some Stalinists too.
what makes you think that my children while living in the world won't come across people who are different?

With homeschooling generally they know other kids through groups so then they will have that much in common in Public school there are people that would never do the same stuff with you and then (especailly in the younger grades) you are expected to work with them. The kids why skip and never show up, control freaks, idiots, emos, skaters, punks, goths, hip-hop, scene, preps, quiets kids, poor kids, rich kids, brownnosers, middle class, kids who have problems speaking English. And you have all the stress of "I have to do good at this" so you learn to help them stay at the same level as you and try and make it work. Then you have teachers who are unfair and will punish you for stupid reasons, and confiscate stuff (my book!) for no reason (it was in my pile of stuff it was under a pencil case and shut! But you have to learn to deal with them. Generally, I think with... I'm not sure who but I think it was CabraWest, send them to school but enrich their education at home.

We are in a lot of different activities with different sorts of people.

We are in a lot of different activities with different sorts of people.

But they are still in activities where they have something that they like so you have something obvious in common.

my daughter's teacher pulled her out in the hall in PreK and told her not to read in class because it made the other kids feel dumb, she then called me up to school and told me to quit teaching her things at home because I was going to make her a nerd and that the other kids would suffer self esteem issues trying to live up to her example, and if I could please ask her to 'mind her vocabulary' around the other kids so that they don't feel like they are stupid.



What you should have done is called the teacher out on the floor on that. Get her to give you that in writing, then presented it to the school board, PTA, and local paper.

What you should have done is called the teacher out on the floor on that. Get her to give you that in writing, then presented it to the school board, PTA, and local paper.

I was told by the superintendent that I am "too involved" in my child's education and she asked me

"what are you going to do when she is in 7th grade and knows everything?"

:rolleyes:

it's just better for my kid to be homeschooled.

She will start highschool at the University of Oklahoma in 2010 and then all of this will be a non-issue.

I was told by the superintendent that I am "too involved" in my child's education and she asked me

"what are you going to do when she is in 7th grade and knows everything?"

:rolleyes:

it's just better for my kid to be homeschooled.

She will start highschool at the University of Oklahoma in 2010 and then all of this will be a non-issue.

If that's the situation in your area, yes, involved home-school or private school would be best.

IMO, I would have gotten cheesed and pursued legal proceedings to get the school system to pay for it all as well as presenting that all to the public.

You sound like you're doing it right. I hope it continues. W/ a few exceptions, I've seen nothing but disasters from my experiences w/ home-schooling , from piss poor education that makes the worst school seem like Ivy League to social skills worse than an early Adam Sandler movie.

If that's the situation in your area, yes, involved home-school or private school would be best.

IMO, I would have gotten cheesed and pursued legal proceedings to get the school system to pay for it all as well as presenting that all to the public.

You sound like you're doing it right. I hope it continues. W/ a few exceptions, I've seen nothing but disasters from my experiences w/ home-schooling , from piss poor education that makes the worst school seem like Ivy League to social skills worse than an early Adam Sandler movie.

kids in my local school district are not allowed to get lower than a C, I doubt most parents know how bad their kid is doing in school when you can flunk out basically and get a C, when you get A's on tests because they are trying to up your grade point average for funding even though you got less than 60% right, when kids are "exempted" from the reading test because they are not improving fast enough to up the school's score on NCLB.....

it's terrible here.

kids in my local school district are not allowed to get lower than a C, I doubt most parents know how bad their kid is doing in school when you can flunk out basically and get a C, when you get A's on tests because they are trying to up your grade point average for funding even though you got less than 60% right, when kids are "exempted" from the reading test because they are not improving fast enough to up the school's score on NCLB.....

it's terrible here.

Sounds like it. You did point to two of the primary problems. Over regulation and uninvolved parents. If I see my kids slackjawed in front of the TV all day, never doing homework, and they're bringing home A's and B's, I'll be questioning things.

I was told by the superintendent that I am "too involved" in my child's education and she asked me

"what are you going to do when she is in 7th grade and knows everything?"

I lay awake at night hoping my kids turn out like that.

Sounds like it. You did point to two of the primary problems. Over regulation and uninvolved parents. If I see my kids slackjawed in front of the TV all day, never doing homework, and they're bringing home A's and B's, I'll be questioning things.
If you teach them everything by 7th grade (as my parents did), that's pretty much how high school works.

kids in my local school district are not allowed to get lower than a C, I doubt most parents know how bad their kid is doing in school when you can flunk out basically and get a C, when you get A's on tests because they are trying to up your grade point average for funding even though you got less than 60% right, when kids are "exempted" from the reading test because they are not improving fast enough to up the school's score on NCLB.....

it's terrible here.

A 93% is a B in my school. :rolleyes:

I think that's a bit.. stupid.

A 93% is a B in my school. :rolleyes:

I think that's a bit.. stupid.


No, stupid is being 37 and still in High School Ruffers.

A 93% is a B in my school. :rolleyes:

I think that's a bit.. stupid.

That is pretty stupid. Even in college-level courses, like AP and Dual-Enrollment?

No, stupid is being 37 and still in High School Ruffers.

*hands Peech a cookie*

Go on, scarf it down. You did him in with that one. :p

*hands Peech a cookie*

Go on, scarf it down. You did him in with that one. :p


*gobble gobble gobble*

thanks love!

No, stupid is being 37 and still in High School Ruffers.
:eek:

Ouch :(:(:(
That is pretty stupid. Even in college-level courses, like AP and Dual-Enrollment?
Everything is graded that way.

It's evil, I say.

Some--not all, maybe not even a majority, but some--choose to home-school because their religious beliefs conflict with what is taught in the public schools. That's a travesty in my opinion. Others, as has been expressed in this thread, choose to do so because of the shoddy condition of the public schools. My only worry with that is that I don't know how many parents have the necessary background to do a good job of teaching their kids, especially as they get older.
I suspect that the religiously-motivated homeschoolers are a small minority even if they do get a lot written about them.

I never needed those...

I have ... try to be bi-sexual in a primarly conservitive bastion of a blue state. (damn old farmers and their homophobic kids)

Everything is graded that way.

It's evil, I say.

It is. Regular classes are a breeze, and honors are the same way. Some AP classes are pretty easy, but many are very hard. A 94 or higher in an Honors or regular class requires very little effort, but a 93 in a challenging AP class will usually be one of the top four or five grades in the class.

Why do they use that scale, anyway? 90-100 makes the most sense to me.

Do they at least weight the GPA for higher-level classes?

I suspect that the religiously-motivated homeschoolers are a small minority even if they do get a lot written about them.

I would agree with this.

In Belgium, as some of you may know, we have a growing rightwing movement, of which a prominent female member admits of homeschooling her children to make sure they receive the proper values (in Belgium, there is no forced school attendance, only forced education attendance - home schooling, in fact, is as such legal). I'm pretty sure this also involves censorship and misinformation about certain "glitches in history" (Darwin, for instance). This is only one person, but whenever there is some kind of education crisis on the horizon, her point of view is widely copied in newspapers and other media, and it would seem that "her kind" is on the rise.

From my own opinion, I would say that I'm against full home schooling for a few simple reasons. One is that most parents are simply not fit to be both parent AND teacher to their children - some because they lack training, most because they lack aptitude intelligence (by no means an insult, but teachers will know what I mean). The second is that I sincerely doubt the educational matter they will be teaching to their children. The third is that, as a society that works with people as a group and allows people to work together and have relationships of all kinds with one another, I think it is wrong to isolate children from their peers - growing up and being "educated" also means dealing with the people outside, the people of your peergroup, which I don't really see happening when you're being home schooled (which, as I would assume, is usually a familial happening).

Why do they use that scale, anyway? 90-100 makes the most sense to me.
Who knows.

Do they at least weight the GPA for higher-level classes?
They weight every grade.

Could you explaine this to me? It's all new, seeing as they only started using it this year.

69 and under is an F and such.

There are very few restrictive public schools... private schools are different matter.
What are you thinking of when you say "restrictive"? What makes you think that the curricula in American schools is any good?

And do schools around you really do that?

Because it certainly doesn't happen over here.
What's the purpose of automatically refuting every point when you make the ignorant assumption that education is the same in America as in Britain?

Why do some American parents choose to educate their children themselves instead of sending them to school?

Are the public schools in America that atrocious?

Some public schools are atrocious. It isn't as though there's a completely uniform performance level across the whole country.

Some (but not all) parents object to the cultural influences in public school, and would attempt to limit the exposure of their children to those influences (a rather foolish thing, but it's their right).

Some (but not all) parents think that an average public school is not capable of educating their children, because it's dumbed down to the "average" kid - and a lot of parents think their child is above average (and some are quite correct in this).

One of my children goes to a private school where he is challenged enough to prevent the boredom that was so obvious to me and the public school teachers - he was never going to receive the level of intellectual stimulation required in any public school. For parents who can't afford a private school, homeschooling in such a case MAY be better than public school (if the parent in question can teach).

Just because a person has a teaching degree and certificate doesn't mean they are any good at teaching ALL types of children - and just because a parent doesn't have a teaching certificate doesn't mean they can't be great at teaching their own child one-on-one.

The high school in my county is a pretty good school, its problem is its health class and the fact that it would fund the (crappy) varsity football team rather than supply the teachers with paper.:mad:

The middle school in my town, however, (there's only 2 middle schools in my county) is A BIG FAT PIECE OF CRAP. I seriously wish I'd been homeschooled then- I was bullied three out of four of those years (the school has grades 5-8) and was very very socially inept. I didn't hav emuch of a social life until July of this year when I took up marching band. I never achieved much in middle school because the teachers picked favorites for the most part and that's mainly why I wasn't motivated, my mentality was "no one will care, they all like my sister more". I never made the sports teams because of favoritism, I'm very smart but rarely made honor roll because I was never motivated because of that favoritism. I basically gave up on everything then, and if I was homeschooled (or, perhaps, sent to the county middle school) that I wouldn't have had horrible bouts of anxiety and depression. :(

Who knows.


They weight every grade.

Could you explaine this to me? It's all new, seeing as they only started using it this year.

69 and under is an F and such.

No, I meant have advanced classes count for more. In a GPA, an A in a regular class counts for 4 points, a B for 3, a C for 2, a D for 1, and an F is just 0. When you're taking an Honors or AP class here, your unweighted GPA is still counted as above, but in your weighted GPA, an A counts for 5 points, a B for 4, and so on (except for F- that's still 0) for those advanced classes.

For example, if a person had 7 classes and recieved 2 B's and 5 A's, then their unweighted GPA would be about 3.7. However, let's say that that student is taking two Honors classes, and those were the two classes in which they received B's. Their weighted GPA would then be a 4.0. This way, students are recognized for taking more challenging courses instead of taking courses that won't challenge them as, in terms of weighted GPA, a B in a Honors or AP class is the equivalent of an A in an regular class.

Also, the grading scale used here is as follows:

90-100 A (outstanding)
80-89 B (above average)
70-79 C (average; a C-average- that is, a 2.0 cumulative GPA- is required for graduation)
60-69 D (lowest grade that allows credit for a course)
0-59 F (failing, no credit recieved)


I can only explain it as it is at my school, but I hope this helps.

Yall keep talking about home schooled kigs not being "socially adept" or not getting enough diversity, and I really have to agree with Smunkee here, homeschool kids get plenty of exposure. I was home schooled for six years (from first grade to seventh) and I was able to do so much more than I could have in public school. I went to ballet classes, I was in three recitals, I did gymnastics, Tae Kwon Do, and soccer, and I was in theare programs and plays. Yeah, I had a hard time adjusting in seventh grade but mostly because I moved three thousand miles from Canada to New Orleans, that caused most of my problems. Now, I go to the best highschool in the state, I'm in the play, sppech and debate and four other clubs. It was much better for me to be homeschooled, because I got the chamce to speak out for my opinions, because even in kindergarten I came home on a daily basis upset because there were so many kids that I got ignored. Mom didn't just teach me at home either everything we did was pert of my learning, and as for experiments its amazing what you can do with household materials. We did everything kids in school did and more because we moved at our own pace, in seventh grade I was reading at a ninth or tenth grade level. It is true that I wasn't as good at math as I could be but I have never gotten anything less than a C in any math class.

We also had a huge homeschool community where I grew up because it was a smaller town and there were a lot of people who lived to far out to go to public school. My mom was one of the facilitators who made sure everybody stayed on task in their programs. There is, at least in Canada, a curriculum that home schoolers have to follow, and it's just about the same as regular school, but it allows for individual pacing.

Why do some American parents choose to educate their children themselves instead of sending them to school?

Are the public schools in America that atrocious?

We home school because:
the public schools in our town are that atrocious.
the private schools aren't much better and cost too much.
we can take vacations whenever and wherever we want.
there's an incredible amount of material out there to enable a person to get an awesome education, tailored to their interests.

Shouldn't children be exposed to corruption so they learn to avoid it? Maybe?

sheltering your children is not a good way of educating them.


You are right, and most home schoolers do not "shelter" their kids. Mine do not live in a box seeing only certain people. They just don't sit in a classroom all day. They get out and mingle.

How about learning how to socially interact with their peers?


My kids interact with people from infants to grandparents. They're not in a box with only people their own age. To me, being stuck only with ones peers is not a valid social tool. In the workforce, you have to deal with all ages.

Really? That was the most important lesson I personally got from school. Learning how to work with people you can't stand and still produce adequate results, defending yourself where necessary, and, as I went to an all girls school, social tactics played a huge part as well.

I will definitely send my kids to school. Not only would I not be able to provide the level of education a school provides (I neither have a science lab, nor a pottery furnace, let alone the amount of instruments or even the sports equipment at home), I want my children prepared for life, not just stuffed full of knowledge.

My kids learn to interact with people they don't like in the neighborhood, in church, on their sports teams.

Indoctrination is not something that should be done in home schooling. "Morally and responsibly right" sounds a lot like that.

If you send a child to a public school, they're going to be able to form their own opinions, and choose for themselves what is actually right and wrong.

If you keep them at home, they'll just get your views on the subject, plus they won't be able to socialise, and will probably have poor social skills later on in life.

You're assuming home schooling means they don't leave the house? Or have other instructors? Home education is a big thing here in the States and it's more than just being home. That's just where the education starts.

There are very few restrictive public schools... private schools are different matter.

Fair enough, but you're only going to have a couple of opinions around the dinner table of one house.

Send them to a school and suddenly there'll be many more, and they can analyse and see the good and bad points of arguments more easily in later life, when there are many points of view, that way.

Life is about dealing with people of differing opinions and ways of life to yourself.

Homeschool a child and fine, you have co-ops and such, but on the other hand, you will very rarely meet people with very different lifestyles that way.

That's part of the beauty of public schooling, it's a mixture of different cultures and lifestyle, and you have to learn to deal with that.

I have to beg to differ, but I'm blessed with a very diverse neighborhood. We have neighbors from all over the world, Christians, Muslims, Buddists, Hindus and atheists. That's just on my block.
We are exposed to a huge diversity of opinion. And my teens do have vastly different opinions from mine. I think it's in how you raise them and encourage them to think for themselves, not to parrot Mom or Dad.

Ah. But do the parents that homeschool their children WANT to expose their children to ideas that vastly differ from their own ?
Do they want children to learn that another lifestyle or religion is not "evil" or "wrong" ?

I fear a significant part doesn't.


Consider me part of the insignificant other part then. :p

Why do some American parents choose to educate their children themselves instead of sending them to school?

Are the public schools in America that atrocious?

yes, not that homeschooling is necessarily better.

I have to beg to differ, but I'm blessed with a very diverse neighborhood. We have neighbors from all over the world, Christians, Muslims, Buddists, Hindus and atheists. That's just on my block.
We are exposed to a huge diversity of opinion. And my teens do have vastly different opinions from mine. I think it's in how you raise them and encourage them to think for themselves, not to parrot Mom or Dad.

And yet some of my most influential moments that decided the course of my life happened.

Namely finding the career I loved. Our computer course managed to have a guest speaker come in that was the then head of the residential hall networking department. Untill that point I did not know I really liked computers nor had I had the idea that I liked computer networking specifically.

Two years later I was working for that guys department at the university

Four years after that I took his place as the head of the department.

Two years after that I became HIS boss

All because of one good teacher that managed to bring in some awesome speakers for their students. (It was not just that one he brought in a ton of speakers over the year)

As has been said, there can be great home-schooling and terrible, just as there are great public schools and terribles ones. If you're going to home-school, it's a major commitment, as I think Smunkee will attest. It takes real involvement.

And if you don't like your local public schools, think about why, and get involved, try to change what you don't like. That takes involvement, too. The PTA is a cliche, I suppose, but an active group could make a difference.

After all, kids aren't just about the fun of conceiving them and the pleasures of child-birth (well, one out of two ...). You got 'em, it's your responsibility to bring them up to be people you wouldn't be embarrassed to be seen with (of course, between the ages of 12 and 20, that's how they think of you, but ...).


The only problem with trying to change public schools is that change comes very slowly, and you've only got 12 or so years to educate your kids for college.

As has been said, there can be great home-schooling and terrible, just as there are great public schools and terribles ones. If you're going to home-school, it's a major commitment, as I think Smunkee will attest. It takes real involvement.

And if you don't like your local public schools, think about why, and get involved, try to change what you don't like. That takes involvement, too. The PTA is a cliche, I suppose, but an active group could make a difference.

After all, kids aren't just about the fun of conceiving them and the pleasures of child-birth (well, one out of two ...). You got 'em, it's your responsibility to bring them up to be people you wouldn't be embarrassed to be seen with (of course, between the ages of 12 and 20, that's how they think of you, but ...).

And do schools around you really do that?

Because it certainly doesn't happen over here.


They have in my state!!!! It's appalling. I wish we had the British school system there!

And yet some of my most influential moments that decided the course of my life happened.

Namely finding the career I loved. Our computer course managed to have a guest speaker come in that was the then head of the residential hall networking department. Untill that point I did not know I really liked computers nor had I had the idea that I liked computer networking specifically.

Two years later I was working for that guys department at the university

Four years after that I took his place as the head of the department.

Two years after that I became HIS boss

All because of one good teacher that managed to bring in some awesome speakers for their students. (It was not just that one he brought in a ton of speakers over the year)


One good teacher can make a huge difference. That's why I do try to expose my kids to many things!

The public schools in my town are very good, with 98% going into universities, and upwards of 30% going to top universities (ivy league or prestigious private schools). Those attending state schools tend to go into programs that are highly respected (education at CCSU, nursing at SCSU, engineering or business at UCONN). That explains why there is very little home schooling in my area. The major reason I have found for home schooling nationwide is poor school systems.

The best solution, in my opinion, is to follow LG's plan. Send the kids to public school, but continue to "teach" when they are home...go to the zoo, museaums, read together, do the crossword with them, flashcards, etc.

IF the statistics you quote are true, I venture to accuse that you do not live in an innercity with a large "minority" population. Those stats are a bit incredible.

Also, the stipulations and regulations on homeschooling are different, not only state to state, but even county to county. So, blanket generalizations about what might be going on or might be expected in homeschooling families can't even be made.

Also, anyone else here have sibings? Anyone want to challenge me on this point, that children with siblings and/or close relationships with cousins learn plenty about social behavior and how to get along with others?

Anyone here EVER have a confict with a parent or authority figure? Isn't that the same thing as learning to "deal" with an unfair teacher? It's actually a more intensive learning experience--because, although a child leaves the teacher at the end of every day; the homeschooled child can't "get away from" working things out with the parent.

The argument that homeschooling equates with poor socialization just doesn't hold water. Certainly, however, not every parent makes a suitable teacher (academically). Some people should definitely NOT homeschool.

BTW, there ARE real and unique advantages to homeschooling. My son never gets homework, he is given plenty of time to finish his work during school time. We don't have to start at 0830 and aren't confined to 51 minute periods. He gets to read well researched historical fiction rather than a textbook. And, because he is advanced in many subjects he can do work at HIS level. He can chew gum, listen to the radio, and drink coffee during "class". He can study Japanese--a language that is just not offerred in the public school. And, neither one of us has to "get along" with the political and ideological bullshit of "No Child Left Behind". His education is actually superior to what he could get in our public school.

The only problem with trying to change public schools is that change comes very slowly, and you've only got 12 or so years to educate your kids for college.

Actually, with homeschooling, you can do it in LESS than 12 years.

Maybe because they don't like what the institution teaches them, so they take their kids edumacation into their own hands. I think its a poor way to develop your child's social skills, they need to interact with other kids.

A 93% is a B in my school. :rolleyes:

I think that's a bit.. stupid.
I let my kid figure out her own grade scale, she figured out a pass/fail sort of grading system, if she gets less that 75% right she fails, if she gets less than 90% right she wants to do more assignments before she moves on.

Maybe because they don't like what the institution teaches them, so they take their kids edumacation into their own hands. I think its a poor way to develop your child's social skills, they need to interact with other kids.
My kids do interact with other kids, and teens, and adults.......

My kids interact with people from infants to grandparents. They're not in a box with only people their own age. To me, being stuck only with ones peers is not a valid social tool. In the workforce, you have to deal with all ages.
I never understood how being in a room, quiet, with 30 kids the same age was supposed to translate into all these great "real life" skills.... I mean my kids are able to go to the library, find what they want, ask for help if they need it, help others if they see someone who needs help, and talk intelligently with the librarian about the book they are turning in, most of the other kids I know their age who are in public school and day care are afraid of adults, can't ask for help, don't know how to find what they are looking for, and basically stare at the wall until an adult gives them permission to explore and even then they are watching to see what to do. It's pretty sad to me.

most of the other kids I know their age who are in public school and day care are afraid of adults, can't ask for help, don't know how to find what they are looking for, and basically stare at the wall until an adult gives them permission to explore and even then they are watching to see what to do. It's pretty sad to me.

When your kids go to get a job, that is how they are going to get trained.

When your kids go to get a job, that is how they are going to get trained.

yes, they will be trained by being able to figure out how to do things for themselves and knowing when to ask appropriate questions and whom to ask them of.

They will not be trained by staring at the wall until someone tells them what to do and then not being able to do it without copying someone else, those employees annoyed me most when I was a manager.

I would always take the person who had common sense and was able to ask important questions and willing to work hard to achieve over the one who followed me around like a puppy "what do you want me to do next boss?"

There are a number of different questions tied up in why parents homeschool. I was homeschooled - and I plan to homeschool my kid(s) too. I feel I have something of a decent grasp on these issues.

1. Quality of education. Some places are better than others. I lived in a place with some of the best schools in the state - I still live in a place with at least tolerably decent schools. Why homeschool? Because I can do a better job teaching my kid than someone with a whole classroom full of students can. It's personalized, they get all the attention they need. The teachers complain about student-teacher ratio because the kids NEED individual attention. I can give it, when they can't. It's not their fault - it's their job to teach a lot of kids, not just mine.

There's nothing worse than someone homeschooling who can't do it, and is doing a bad job. Particularly if part of it is sheltering them, and trying to "protect" them from the outside world by keeping them cut off from it. They're hurting their kids by limiting thier learning and potential, they're hurting others who homeschool by giving it a bad name.

2. Flexibility. Flexibility within each class schedule, so you can take longer on things you need to, and go faster when you need to. I went through my seventh grade mathbook in about a month. I did ALL the problems in it. It was essentially just review of grades K-6, and it was okay, but easy. After that, my mom got me the 8th grade math book, and made me limit my time in it to do other subjects I had a harder time with, and not get through it before the year was out. Becuase of that, I ended up going to a local college and taking a year of Calculus while still in High School. I also finished a science book early, and did a 6 month project on the Human Genome Project back when it was a new big deal, and they were working on it. I read Science magazine cover to cover at times. I also took a long tedious time writing papers, and learning German, and I'm dreadful at memorizing things. Plus, my schooling enabled me to go on trips all around the US, and over to the UK pretty much every year. Not to mention field trips, being able to live with my grandmother when she was sick and hear stories of her childhood and the wars, and such (nothing like firsthand history), and to take music lessons in unusual things (I play the harp), martial arts, to learn foreign languages from native speakers, not someone who learned it to teach it in school, and all sorts of other crazy things. There's nothing like the flexibility you get for good life experiences.

3. Content. Personally, I used the textbooks the school distrcit lent us just like they lent them to everyone else. It was free, it was the same good quality curriculum they were using in top ranked schools. And my mom could just talk to me when I had questions about things I didn't agree with. I knew a kid who got suspended for questioning the teacher when the teacher insisted. My mom figured I needed to know evolution if nothing else, because everyone else did, and being educated means you can't be ignorant of major things like that. But it also meant she could add content at will, and limit certain things. (Boy, our "sex ed" class was miserable... but then again, so was the one in school, according to my best friend, so what else is new?)

4. Socialization. Last but not least. This is probably the most frequent complaint about homeschooling, and also the least valid. Firstly, socialization often interferes with their academic learning. This has long been an argument used by single-sex schools saying the opposite gender distracts from learning. I'm not sure I buy that quite, but there is a point there. Secondly, sociatlization is often negative. Being beat up daily is not positive sociatlization skill building. My parents believed we should learn to stand up for ourselves, and we did. Usually verbally, but occationally physically too. I broke a kid's nose once when he tried to beat me up. My brother stuffed a kid head first into a trash can when they tried to show him how he "wouldn't last a day in school". Learning to deal with bullies, bad teachers, other kids or other adults can be done almost anywhere in life. Learning academic subjects is largely limited to school.

Thirdly and finally, children were not born in litters, and have no pressing need to be treated as if they were. The trouble with kids who only interact with their own age group is they have no idea how to deal with adults, no idea how to mentor or teach, no idea how to interact successfully with anyone who is not thier own age. It does them a great disservice to so drastically limit their interaction. In the days of one-room schoolhouses, the older children learned to help the younger ones. They were also expected to interact with adults regularly at home. These days of teenage angst and alienation - the huge gap between children and adults - in my opinion is largely caused by the fact that adults are not teaching the children how to interact with anyone not their own age in a normal way. By the time they get out of school, they are fully persuaded they cannot deal with anyone more than a few years away from them in age. They cannot relate to their parents. They cannot help younger kids. They cannot even talk to other adults, often.

The fact is, homeschooled kids tend towards the MORE well-adjusted, better socialized end of the spectrum. There are exceptions on both sides of the fence, but it is the classroom schooling which is limiting the socialization, NOT the homeschooling.

I was homeschooled up until 9th grade. Basically, the reason I was homeschooled was because my parents had done public schooling with some of my older siblings and had gotten screwed over in various ways, several times. Mostly my eldest brother being bored in class and being treated badly, by teachers, for being smart.

After that, they tried private schooling with my older brother and found it to be a little better, but still not all that great.

By the time I was six (which is usually about the time kids start 1st grade around here), I was already well ahead of other kids my age, and so instead of my parents putting me through what my siblings had already gone through, they just decided it would be best to take things into their own hands.

Luckly enough for me, my mother has a very wide range of knowledge , and so was able to give me a well-rounded education. The only reason I started public school was because it became harder and harder to find workbooks and stuff for higher-level classes.

I did manage to learn quite a bit while homeschooled, though, considering that once I did go into public school (a year early, too) I quickly rose to the top of my class.

Also, as to the whole social interaction thing, just because I was homeschooled doesn't mean I never left the house. I was, and still am, involved in Boy Scouts, at my church, community sports, and etc.

I lay awake at night hoping my kids turn out like that.

Me too. Actually, I was just upstairs a bit ago, helping my two and a half year old read a few words. She wanted to help me read - she already knows the alphabet - why not? (The funny bit was when she told me the d was an "upside down p". I said "oh, that's a d" she said "oh, and upside down p is a d" and called it an "upside down p is a d" the rest of the time.) I could see her reading quite nicely in a year or so.

BUT I don't know that I want her to go to college real early. There are plenty more thing that can be taught before going to college, and many kids aren't really mature enough to be going to college at 15. I'd prefer she go away to college, not just live at home and go off to college from here. In a way, I view college as a test-run for being on their own. There needs to be that "sink or swim" moment, going into adult-hood, and that can't happen from home the same way. Also, my experience with kids who went to college younger is that, while I often really like them, by the time they graduated, they weren't really mature enough - old enough - ready enough to be in the workforce, so they either went to grad school, or sort of floundered for a while, trying to grow up and be older than they are.

what makes you think that my children while living in the world won't come across people who are different?

"Come across" and "live and work with on a daily basis" are very different, Smunkee.

kids in my local school district are not allowed to get lower than a C, I doubt most parents know how bad their kid is doing in school when you can flunk out basically and get a C, when you get A's on tests because they are trying to up your grade point average for funding even though you got less than 60% right, when kids are "exempted" from the reading test because they are not improving fast enough to up the school's score on NCLB.....

it's terrible here.

Sounds like that whole system needs reforming. Desperately.

I have ... try to be bi-sexual in a primarly conservitive bastion of a blue state. (damn old farmers and their homophobic kids)

*lol
Being bisexual in a small Catholic school in a small Catholic town in Germany never got me beaten up...

*lol
Being bisexual in a small Catholic school in a small Catholic town in Germany never got me beaten up...

Yeah, but you're a chick. Bisexuallity is only bad for guys and your daughter.

My kids learn to interact with people they don't like in the neighborhood, in church, on their sports teams.

Your kids are perfectly able to avoid those people they really can't stand in those environments, or can at least limit it. They can escape confrontational situations easily.
It is social contact, yes, but not on the same level as it would be at school or as it will be later on in life.

I understand the argument concerning mixed ages at work, but, truth be told, that made it easier for me on a social level. The pressure was much higher as long as I was mostly around people my own age group at school, so you could say I was even overprepared for social work environments. ;)

Yeah, but you're a chick. Bisexuallity is only bad for guys and your daughter.

Oh.... fair enough. I'm not going to ask why because I already know I won't be able to understand the answer.

Oh.... fair enough. I'm not going to ask why because I already know I won't be able to understand the answer.

I don't understand it either, but I have conditioned into believing it, then conditioned by Fass to be ashamed of my heterosexuality.

*lol
Being bisexual in a small Catholic school in a small Catholic town in Germany never got me beaten up...

exscuse me, I'm going to my little Fantasy world and adding this peice of information...



be back after my cold shower.... :p

4. Socialization. Last but not least. This is probably the most frequent complaint about homeschooling, and also the least valid. Firstly, socialization often interferes with their academic learning. This has long been an argument used by single-sex schools saying the opposite gender distracts from learning. I'm not sure I buy that quite, but there is a point there. Secondly, sociatlization is often negative. Being beat up daily is not positive sociatlization skill building. My parents believed we should learn to stand up for ourselves, and we did. Usually verbally, but occationally physically too. I broke a kid's nose once when he tried to beat me up. My brother stuffed a kid head first into a trash can when they tried to show him how he "wouldn't last a day in school". Learning to deal with bullies, bad teachers, other kids or other adults can be done almost anywhere in life. Learning academic subjects is largely limited to school.

Interfereing with their academic learning... see, that's exactly why I would send my kids to school. Academic learning is one half of what school offers (and my school offered plenty in a very open, interactive way, always exploring new methods of teaching), but having to deal with distractions, having to live with people trying to outdo you, to block you, to make it harder for you is actually the more important part in my eyes.

Please note that I would not tolerate my kid being exposed to physical violence at school. I wasn't, none of my brothers ever was, and I don't intend to have my kid go through situations of physical violence. I will have a very good look at the school we'll pick, and I'll try and be as involved as possible in order to avoid violence there.

exscuse me, I'm going to my little Fantasy world and adding this peice of information...



be back after my cold shower.... :p

Enjoy it :D
:fluffle:

kids in my local school district are not allowed to get lower than a C, I doubt most parents know how bad their kid is doing in school when you can flunk out basically and get a C, when you get A's on tests because they are trying to up your grade point average for funding even though you got less than 60% right, when kids are "exempted" from the reading test because they are not improving fast enough to up the school's score on NCLB.....

it's terrible here.

YES! THEY WEREN'T LEFT BEHIND! BUSH MADE IT HAPPEN!

YES! THEY WEREN'T LEFT BEHIND! BUSH MADE IT HAPPEN!

You've got to be kidding me... Instead of coming up with special programs and courses for kids who for whatever reason can't follow the class, they want to slow the class down so that these kids can keep up? That's dumb beyond words... :eek:

You've got to be kidding me... Instead of coming up with special programs and courses for kids who for whatever reason can't follow the class, they want to slow the class down so that these kids can keep up? That's dumb beyond words... :eek:

If it is dumb or not depends on what you wish to achieve.
Keeping the population stupid, but without an inferiority complex is a goal one could strive for.

Why do some American parents choose to educate their children themselves instead of sending them to school?

Are the public schools in America that atrocious?

Yes and no. Some schools are atrocious, and some are excellent. Most schools do the best they can with what they have to work with, and in some districts that, unfortunately is not much. There are many wonderful but grossly underpaid teachers who continue because of their love for the students. We were able to do a better job schooling the foster kids at home on the ranch than what the local public school administration was willing or capable.

At present there are about 1.3 million known homeschoolers in the U.S. according to the HSLDA (Home School Legal Defense Association). There is a Research Paper entitled Home Schooling: From the Extreme to the Mainstream by Patrick Basham that gives statistics as to why parents homeschool that is freely available online. I am unsure of the policy of NS for allowing url posts, but it can be googled.

The report by Basham states the top responses:

~50% can do a better job at home.
~40% for religious reasons
~25% because of a poor learning environment at school
~17% for family reasons
~15% to develop character or morality
~12% object to what the school teaches
~12% the school does not challenge the child
~12% other problems with available schools
~09% student behavior problems at school
~08% child has special needs or disability
~03% problems with transportation or convenience
~02% child not old enough to enter school
~02% cannot afford private school
~01.5% parent's career
~01.5% could not get into desired school
~20% gave other reasons including it was the students choice, better parental control over what the child was learning, flexibility, and to provide for year round schooling.
The report does not include students who were temporaily home schooled due to illness, or students also attendinding a local school more than 25 hours.
The original results do not add up to 100% because people were allowed to give multiple responses.

My reasons for homeschooling were educational, and ideological.

The educational reason is that PME (Progressive Modern Education) fatally flawed, and there are better education models available. Using a modified Websterian curricula with a heavy Classic Ecclectic emphasis, the kids learned the same amount of material of their public school counterparts in half the time. By graduation they were at least at grade level or above their peers in all subjects.

Socialization was accomplished through networking with other homeschoolers, church activities, civic organizations (FFA and 4-H, Police Explorers, etc), public school sports, speech & debate team, and band, community activities, including volunteering with a service organization that helps foreign refugees in the area, and too many field trips to name. Of course not every child was enrolled in everything, but those were some of the options available. The local community college was very helpful with summer programs in the sciences for classes such as chemistry where labwork is required.

The myth that all homeschoolers are sequestered social mysanthropes tends to become tedious after a while. According to HSLDA 85% of homeschoolers are networked adequately to provide socialization skills that meet or exceed that of public schooled individuals.

This post is quite long already so i will hold off on the ideological reasons. :)

I get the feeling I may offend a few people here, but what the heck.

There is a reason why teachers spend four years at university before they can teach. What makes a parent think that they can provide an equal service with no training?

Do these same parents home-surgery when their kids get sick?

I get the feeling I may offend a few people here, but what the heck.

There is a reason why teachers spend four years at university before they can teach. What makes a parent think that they can provide an equal service with no training?

Do these same parents home-surgery when their kids get sick?

What reason do teachers go to school for 4 years?

What reason do teachers go to school for 4 years?

To study their subjet in depth, to learn about teaching methods, to learn about pedagogical methods, etc.

And I don't know about the US, but in Germany you don't go to school to become a teacher, you go to university.

To study their subjet in depth, to learn about teaching methods, to learn about pedagogical methods, etc.

And I don't know about the US, but in Germany you don't go to school to become a teacher, you go to university.

I was just wondering, I took the teacher certification test here and am certified to teach through highschool. I didn't go to college for teaching, so I was wondering since I can legally teach here just by passing the test, what exactly they learn in college that I don't know.

I would assume from what I hear from friends who are teachers that it's a lot of classroom management, and since I manage my children quite well I don't think I will spend 30K on going to college for that.

I would assume from what I hear from friends who are teachers that it's a lot of classroom management, and since I manage my children quite well I don't think I will spend 30K on going to college for that.


There’s a big difference between managing a couple of kids and managing 30+ kids. I feely admit that I know next to nothing about the American school system, but I’m very surprised that you could get such a certification. But if that’s the way it works in the US…

That being said, the best teachers I’ve ever had were not from university. Rather, they were retired craftsmen who now taught at craft schools (or whatever it’s called outside Denmark – the kind of schools where you learn carpentry or how to repair cars and so on). This, I believe, is due to two factors: 1) they’ve spend their entire life working, and there’s no doubt that they are extremely skilled in their chosen profession. And 2) many of them have had apprentices working under them, and / or have risen quite high in the company’s hierarchy – perhaps even owned the company themselves. They are perhaps not very pedagogic in their approach to teaching, but they will generally accept no nonsense in the class and the students quickly learn to respect their authority.

There’s a big difference between managing a couple of kids and managing 30+ kids. I feely admit that I know next to nothing about the American school system, but I’m very surprised that you could get such a certification. But if that’s the way it works in the US…


Here (in my state) you have to go to college for 4 years and get your BA in education then you have to take the certification test, if you have the degree but can't pass the test you can't teach. We have a huge teacher shortage so they have relaxed the rules lately that if you can pass the certification test with greater than 85% you can teach legally even if you don't have your BA in education. I passed with a 97%, I missed a few questions in the Trig section.

There’s a big difference between managing a couple of kids and managing 30+ kids. I feely admit that I know next to nothing about the American school system, but I’m very surprised that you could get such a certification. But if that’s the way it works in the US…

That being said, the best teachers I’ve ever had were not from university. Rather, they were retired craftsmen who now taught at craft schools (or whatever it’s called outside Denmark – the kind of schools where you learn carpentry or how to repair cars and so on). This, I believe, is due to two factors: 1) they’ve spend their entire life working, and there’s no doubt that they are extremely skilled in their chosen profession. And 2) many of them have had apprentices working under them, and / or have risen quite high in the company’s hierarchy – perhaps even owned the company themselves. They are perhaps not very pedagogic in their approach to teaching, but they will generally accept no nonsense in the class and the students quickly learn to respect their authority.


That would be your own personal experience. The few teachers I had who had actually worked in the field they taught (one physics teacher and one arts teacher) were actually the worst two teachers I ever had. Being a good teacher does not necessarily mean having the most experience in their specific fields (it can help, though), but being able to explain and to communicate that knowledge.

Here (in my state) you have to go to college for 4 years and get your BA in education then you have to take the certification test, if you have the degree but can't pass the test you can't teach. We have a huge teacher shortage so they have relaxed the rules lately that if you can pass the certification test with greater than 85% you can teach legally even if you don't have your BA in education. I passed with a 97%, I missed a few questions in the Trig section.

As an outsider to that situation, I think your school system is in desperate need of reform. Everything you described so far sounds like trying to patch a hole in a sinking ship with chewing gum...

As an outsider to that situation, I think your school system is in desperate need of reform. Everything you described so far sounds like trying to patch a hole in a sinking ship with chewing gum...

it's very bad here, and the problems are not easy to solve, but I don't see the point in throwing my kids into the thick of it.

it's very bad here, and the problems are not easy to solve, but I don't see the point in throwing my kids into the thick of it.

It might be the European talking here, but I would regard that situation as inacceptable to both parents and children. If I found a similar situation when I'm to send my kids to school, I'd spend half my time in the street protesting and half of it in the offices of the responsible people. In my experience, situations like this change very fast if you put enough pressure on it.

It might be the European talking here, but I would regard that situation as inacceptable to both parents and children. If I found a similar situation when I'm to send my kids to school, I'd spend half my time in the street protesting and half of it in the offices of the responsible people. In my experience, situations like this change very fast if you put enough pressure on it.

hate to sound selfish, but I have been fighting it since I was in highschool and we marched on the capitol steps for civics books, when we had 40+ kids 12 desks, no books, and no teacher.

The problems here are not so much with the schools, I mean there are huge problems with the schools, but the underlying problems are harder to fix, and it's not going to be easy or fast. I do what I can to help the teen mothers, the abused, the homeless, because they are the ones who are stuck in the school system given high grades, lied to, and sent out in the world only to fail.

Edit: and there isn't much support for reform around here other than they are tired of losing kids to homeschool because it screws with their funding, when the best and the brightest leave your average test scores have nowhere to go but down. It will be this way as long as parents keep saying "well, they need to go to be socialized" and "it's less expensive than daycare"

I was homes schooled from 1st to 12th grade, and I honestly believe that I wouldn't be the person I am today if I was in public school.

A lot of people say home schoolers lack vital socialization skills - I haven't found this to be true, as I and all four of my siblings were home schooled and we all have active social lives. I've been active in sports and other things where I had to interact with people, some of whom I couldn't stand, all without a day in public school.

The reason I am really happy to have been home schooled is because I have observed that I seem to be more open minded and accepting of 'foreign' or 'strange' things than my friends are. Now, do not get me wrong; I'm not saying that because they were taught in public schools they're less open minded and accepting of things, but I believe me having been taught by my mother meant that I wasn't influenced by my peers as much as my peers were influenced by theirs. They just seem to follow a 'standard' in which if they drift out of that way of thinking they'll be considered uncool or something, whereas I don't submit to a 'standard' way of thinking, I believe what I want and don't care what comes of it.

What really ticks me off though, is that my public schooled friends honestly see me as inferior all because I'm taught at home rather than at a crowded under funded public school. They constantly try to outsmart me, asking me random questions either about mathematics or something similar and look genuinely shocked to find that I know the answer, in which I'll just turn it back on them and see them struggle.

Edit: and there isn't much support for reform around here other than they are tired of losing kids to homeschool because it screws with their funding, when the best and the brightest leave your average test scores have nowhere to go but down. It will be this way as long as parents keep saying "well, they need to go to be socialized" and "it's less expensive than daycare"

Homeschooling is not practical (or even possible) for all children. I'd be surprised if it was even practical for a majority of children. I feel it's everybody's responsiblility to ensure that there's good quality education available for everyone and I would definitely fight for that.
Homeschooling kids is not the solution of this problem, as it will only help a minority and leaves the majority out in the rain. I personally would find a situation like that unacceptable and would refuse to take away responsibility from the school autorities by taking my kids out of school...

Homeschooling is not practical (or even possible) for all children. I'd be surprised if it was even practical for a majority of children. I feel it's everybody's responsiblility to ensure that there's good quality education available for everyone and I would definitely fight for that.
Homeschooling kids is not the solution of this problem, as it will only help a minority and leaves the majority out in the rain. I personally would find a situation like that unacceptable and would refuse to take away responsibility from the school autorities by taking my kids out of school...

Well now we agree on something. Homeschooling is NOT possible, much less ideal in many situations. Many parents are not equipped to be able to teach their kids - or to even know if their kids are being taught well by others they hire. Some kids need a more competitive environment and NEED to be in a classroom setting to do thier best. And I agree it is our responsibility to provide a good education for anyone. Homeschooling my kid cannot provide that for everyone... however, it can provide it for MY kid, which is where my priority begins. I'm always in favor of things to provide a better education for ALL the kids, but I can't homeschool all of them. You can call it refusing to take away responsibility from the school, or you can call it giving up your own responsibility to see your kid gets the best education possible. I intend to be involved with the local school, and to support them as much as possible. But the responsibility for education is primarily MINE, not primarily theirs, and me doing my job doesn't count in my litle world as taking away their responsibility.

I was just wondering, I took the teacher certification test here and am certified to teach through highschool. I didn't go to college for teaching, so I was wondering since I can legally teach here just by passing the test, what exactly they learn in college that I don't know.

I would assume from what I hear from friends who are teachers that it's a lot of classroom management, and since I manage my children quite well I don't think I will spend 30K on going to college for that.

Most of what teachers learn isn't even classroom management, it's "teaching techniques" some of which are useful, I'm sure, and many of which are silly. I think it mostly it's giving them ideas of how to communicate things in a way that will stick, and to explain things better when kids have a hard time with it. However, generally all it takes is the certification test. Plus often a semester of in-classroom experience, which they say is worth far more than all of the classes they ever took combined. (I roomed with education majors in college. I studied math, partly because I could take all sorts of other classes too since it was a small major.)

And I don't see, if you've gone to college for one thing, why that makes you inherently unfit to teach other things. I went for math, but I took political science, psychology, philosophy, german, music, biology, chemistry, physics, astronomy, and other random assorted things. Not to mention any other teaching and tutoring I've done.

In my parents' case, my mom had a degree in education, and both my parents had spent some time teaching classrooms - my mom to special ed kids, and my dad in the inner city - before trying to homeschool us, and my dad had a PhD, a ThM and another master's degree. Granted, not all parents trying to homeschool are sufficiently educated, but I know other families like mine that way.

Homeschooling kids is not the solution of this problem, as it will only help a minority and leaves the majority out in the rain.

What the alternative though? Its not like they are being sent to some prestigous private school and abandoning everyone else. They are being taken under their wing by their parents. Its legal, and in alot of cases it is a good thing.

I was actually never homeschooled, but I believe in it. I was supplemented instead, so I was well ahead of my classmates in many areas (reading, in particular).

An "egalitarian" education, where smart children are being told to turn themselves down, is a miserable waste. That, and children being children is now cause for medication.

I personally would find a situation like that unacceptable and would refuse to take away responsibility from the school autorities by taking my kids out of school...

Even if it resulted in your child being given a sub-par education? I know that is not a choice I would make. We all believe that American education has problems, but all efforts to fix it have gone stale. Think about it, every child is different- So how could even the best school in the world be aptly suited to teach them all?

What the alternative though? Its not like they are being sent to some prestigous private school and abandoning everyone else. They are being taken under their wing by their parents. Its legal, and in alot of cases it is a good thing.

I was actually never homeschooled, but I believe in it. I was supplemented instead, so I was well ahead of my classmates in many areas (reading, in particular).

An "egalitarian" education, where smart children are being told to turn themselves down, is a miserable waste. That, and children being children is now cause for medication.



Even if it resulted in your child being given a sub-par education? I know that is not a choice I would make. We all believe that American education has problems, but all efforts to fix it have gone stale. Think about it, every child is different- So how could even the best school in the world be aptly suited to teach them all?


You said yourself that your own education was supplemented. I guess I would opt for that if there was absolutely no other way. It is rather hard for me to imagine the school situation in the USA, as I myself am from a small German twon (70 000 inhabitants approximately) that had 1 elementary school per 200 kids, meaning that wherever you lived, you were within walking distance of at least 2 elementary schools. It had 9 Hauptschulen (5 years of secondary education), 7 Realschulen (6 years of secondary education) and 6 Grammar Schools (9 years of secondary education, required to enroll to university afterwards). To imagine that a country in the developed world might be either unwilling or unable to provide good school education for its children is an idea I find very very hard to grasp. I do believe that it's society's and the states responsibility to make quality education for all. Yes, my kid will be my first responsibility, but its not my only responsibility. As a member of society, I would see it as my responsibility to make sure that a good level of education is available to eveyone.
But then again, I guess it's my "socialist European" background talking here.

I'm not saying that some kids may not be better off being homeschooled, and I'm definitely not saying that it's the state's responsibility to raise my kids. But it is the state's responsibility to provide access to good education for my kids.

You said yourself that your own education was supplemented. I guess I would opt for that if there was absolutely no other way. It is rather hard for me to imagine the school situation in the USA, as I myself am from a small German twon (70 000 inhabitants approximately) that had 1 elementary school per 200 kids, meaning that wherever you lived, you were within walking distance of at least 2 elementary schools. It had 9 Hauptschulen (5 years of secondary education), 7 Realschulen (6 years of secondary education) and 6 Grammar Schools (9 years of secondary education, required to enroll to university afterwards). To imagine that a country in the developed world might be either unwilling or unable to provide good school education for its children is an idea I find very very hard to grasp. I do believe that it's society's and the states responsibility to make quality education for all. Yes, my kid will be my first responsibility, but its not my only responsibility. As a member of society, I would see it as my responsibility to make sure that a good level of education is available to eveyone.
But then again, I guess it's my "socialist European" background talking here.

I'm not saying that some kids may not be better off being homeschooled, and I'm definitely not saying that it's the state's responsibility to raise my kids. But it is the state's responsibility to provide access to good education for my kids.

Those are certainly noble sentiments. We certainly could demand a better education, but at the time, American education is a battleground of special interest groups and experimental techniques. Everything a teacher tries will offend some group or denomination- and even the Federal government tosses out hindrances. Also, Dont forget that American culture tends to be more individually oriented. We tend to hold people responsible for their own education; which can be arguably flawed depending upon the child it concerns- but that is just our way, and culture is not easily changed.

people who are homeschooled will generally have poor social skills, which will hurt them alot later on in life

some homeschooled girl who had all these good referances and a portfolio and everything applied at the place where I work (sportscheck), and obviously because she had such good stuff we hired her. but we had to let her go after only a few weeks, because whenever someone came into the store, she'd just hide behind some clothes racks, or walk away whenever someone tried to talk to her and ask her for help. i know not all homeschooled kids would be that shy and socially retarded, but i wouldnt want 2 take any chances that my kids could be

not to mention most of the stuff you learn in private, or public schools isnt really going to help you in real life

people who are homeschooled will generally have poor social skills, which will hurt them alot later on in life

some homeschooled girl who had all these good referances and a portfolio and everything applied at the place where I work (sportscheck), and obviously because she had such good stuff we hired her. but we had to let her go after only a few weeks, because whenever someone came into the store, she'd just hide behind some clothes racks, or walk away whenever someone tried to talk to her and ask her for help. i know not all homeschooled kids would be that shy and socially retarded, but i wouldnt want 2 take any chances that my kids could be

not to mention most of the stuff you learn in private, or public schools isnt really going to help you in real life

Public school won't guarantee good social skills. If anything, it could make people more shy.

I've been shy for a long time, but in tenth grade I began to get nauseous simply from being around people. I think it was mostly the result of a certain class which I had as a result of a schedule conflict. It kept getting worse, and I kept getting nauseous whenever other people (aside from family members and close friends) were around. I didn't stop getting nauseous until after I went to a therapist for a while. Now, however, I'm still much more shy than most people and I'm not very good at talking to people. People are still kind of scary when I don't know them. Public school has made my fear of people worse for me. Now I just want to get a house in a secluded area and become a recluse for the rest of my life after I grow up.

people who are homeschooled will generally have poor social skills, which will hurt them alot later on in life

some homeschooled girl who had all these good referances and a portfolio and everything applied at the place where I work (sportscheck), and obviously because she had such good stuff we hired her. but we had to let her go after only a few weeks, because whenever someone came into the store, she'd just hide behind some clothes racks, or walk away whenever someone tried to talk to her and ask her for help. i know not all homeschooled kids would be that shy and socially retarded, but i wouldnt want 2 take any chances that my kids could be

not to mention most of the stuff you learn in private, or public schools isnt really going to help you in real life

Solving the social limitations of homeschool is as easy as enrolling them in activities. Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Jodo, Local Baseball or Soccer leagues, even taking them to a public park or Swimming pool weekly can solve it. I actually find the freinds of mine that were once homeschooled to even be socially apt in ways I myself could never be. They are far more resistant to mob mentality and groupthink, and tend to interact better with both younger and older.

YES! THEY WEREN'T LEFT BEHIND! BUSH MADE IT HAPPEN!skewing grades has nothing to do with NCLB, and has been happening for many many years more than Bush has been in power.

What reason do teachers go to school for 4 years?To earn a degree, same as anyone else.

To study their subjet in depth, to learn about teaching methods, to learn about pedagogical methods, etc.

And I don't know about the US, but in Germany you don't go to school to become a teacher, you go to university.

I was just wondering, I took the teacher certification test here and am certified to teach through highschool. I didn't go to college for teaching, so I was wondering since I can legally teach here just by passing the test, what exactly they learn in college that I don't know.

I would assume from what I hear from friends who are teachers that it's a lot of classroom management, and since I manage my children quite well I don't think I will spend 30K on going to college for that.
K...I'll answer this, since it is currently what I am doing.

In MA and CT, there are two routes you can go to be a teacher. Both involve atleast earning a degree.

Currently, I am an English education major. I am required to take 12 English courses, including a world lit course, 2 brit lits, 3 American lits, 1Shakespeare, and Classics (the bible, Ovid, Virgil). That earns me a BA in English.

For the education, I take 8 classes, ranging from special ed to development to methods. I will also student teach.

The other route I could go is to not take the education classes. There is a 6 week night school course I could take instead.

You must have a bachelors to begin to teach. Within a certain amount of time, you must also get your masters.

Most highschools in New England function on the degree+1 system. You can teach any number of courses in your degree fields, plus one class that is not. I, with my English degree, could teach one class of theater, or psych, etc.

The test to teach varies state-to-state, with some offering reciprocity (I pass the test in state A, and can then teach in states B, C, and D.)

The point of going for a degree in order to teach is to actually understand my subject. I could easily pass the MTEL's (the mass teaching test) right now, but I would not have nearly enough exposure to nearly enough lit to be an effective teacher.

Solving the social limitations of homeschool is as easy as enrolling them in activities. Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Jodo, Local Baseball or Soccer leagues, even taking them to a public park or Swimming pool weekly can solve it. I actually find the freinds of mine that were once homeschooled to even be socially apt in ways I myself could never be. They are far more resistant to mob mentality and groupthink, and tend to interact better with both younger and older.

Totally correct. I think part of an education IS learning social interaction. If you're homeschooling, it is your responsibility to see that your kids get enough time with other people that are fairly normal people, with normal sorts of social skills. You don't have to spend ALL day every day to do that, though.

As you say, they tend to be more resistant to mob mentality and groupthink. But they also tend to have much less 'team spirit' and acceptance of social norms. Basically, that's the same thing, just put the other way.

people who are homeschooled will generally have poor social skills, which will hurt them alot later on in life

some homeschooled girl who had all these good referances and a portfolio and everything applied at the place where I work (sportscheck), and obviously because she had such good stuff we hired her. but we had to let her go after only a few weeks, because whenever someone came into the store, she'd just hide behind some clothes racks, or walk away whenever someone tried to talk to her and ask her for help. i know not all homeschooled kids would be that shy and socially retarded, but i wouldnt want 2 take any chances that my kids could be

not to mention most of the stuff you learn in private, or public schools isnt really going to help you in real life

Personality and temperament (which includes introversion/extroversion) is to a large extent genetically predetermined. People are literally born shy and a lot of times that never changes, though it possible can. Your girl would still be shy if she went to public school and she would undoubtedly be worse off because of it.

"Socially retarded" is an idiotic way of putting it and what you’re talking about has nothing to do with home schooling.

What reason do teachers go to school for 4 years?

1. To gain the skills needed to teach students
2. To understand the psychology and how a child's mind develops
3. To gain in-depth knowledge of the content of the curriculum, and how to plan content-rich lessons to satisfy the syllabus outcomes
4. To learn the correct way to conduct oneself in an educational setting

Those are certainly noble sentiments. We certainly could demand a better education, but at the time, American education is a battleground of special interest groups and experimental techniques. Everything a teacher tries will offend some group or denomination- and even the Federal government tosses out hindrances. Also, Dont forget that American culture tends to be more individually oriented. We tend to hold people responsible for their own education; which can be arguably flawed depending upon the child it concerns- but that is just our way, and culture is not easily changed.
Do you know much about the German education system?

It's rather different from the US style, and a lot like the old British style.

IIRC everyone goes to Kindergarten and then to Grundschule (primary school, 5-11, I have no idea what the US equivalent is).

They then take a test, and you either go to :

A Hauptschule if you're not very academic, those focus on technical subjects such as becoming a mechanic etc.

A Realschule, which is if you're pretty average, with more of a slant towards more intellectual subjects than a Hauptschule, and your education lasts longer there.

A Gymnasium (Grammar school, nothing to do with the English word), if you're pretty clever, and these are very academic. Your education is longest here.

There are also a few "Gesamtschule", but not that many, which are comprehensive schools, essentially what you get in the UK and US. These cover all ability ranges.



Their education system is quite different to that of the UK and US, and whilst it contains a bit of egalitarianism, at least you're in ability ranges similar to your own, so this is less of an issue.

Homeschooled kids aren't sheltered. I met a homeschooled kid (she wa on my sister's oftball team) and she was pretty tlkative and very nice. :)

However I went to the town middle school and never gained a social life, but instead got shunted aside and picked on for my acne and suffered from a social anxiety and depression. :(

I think homeschooled kids are more motivated because the teachers (whether they be parents or private tutors) know them and want to see them learn and grow into a prodductive citizen, whereas in public school many teachers just care about getting you through the EOGs and so lump all these kids together like they're all the same. In elementary school they actually do help you and then in middle school they pick favorites so that in high school the teachers have problems with kids who became slackers in middle school.

I was a total loser in MS, and I really don't want anyone to have the experience, let alone any kid I may have in the future.

I still have serious doubts if it is possible to have the same depth in each subject. Home schooling does somewhat limit the resources you have regarding teaching material and various sources of knowledge.
Having different teachers who sepcify in one or two subjects, but still may or may not agree 100% with the teacher you had the year before or will have the year after something I regarded as valuable asset at school.

I get the feeling I may offend a few people here, but what the heck.

There is a reason why teachers spend four years at university before they can teach. What makes a parent think that they can provide an equal service with no training?

Do these same parents home-surgery when their kids get sick?

Errrr, if the teachers in my state spent four years at university before they could teach that would work. However, I know one of my kids had a teacher who hadn't even gone to college. Leaving my state is not an option for us right now. How I chose to have my children "educated" is. And yes, I used an approved curriculum with lesson plans that is accepted by colleges.

You said yourself that your own education was supplemented. I guess I would opt for that if there was absolutely no other way. It is rather hard for me to imagine the school situation in the USA, as I myself am from a small German twon (70 000 inhabitants approximately) that had 1 elementary school per 200 kids, meaning that wherever you lived, you were within walking distance of at least 2 elementary schools. It had 9 Hauptschulen (5 years of secondary education), 7 Realschulen (6 years of secondary education) and 6 Grammar Schools (9 years of secondary education, required to enroll to university afterwards). To imagine that a country in the developed world might be either unwilling or unable to provide good school education for its children is an idea I find very very hard to grasp. I do believe that it's society's and the states responsibility to make quality education for all. Yes, my kid will be my first responsibility, but its not my only responsibility. As a member of society, I would see it as my responsibility to make sure that a good level of education is available to eveyone.
But then again, I guess it's my "socialist European" background talking here.

I'm not saying that some kids may not be better off being homeschooled, and I'm definitely not saying that it's the state's responsibility to raise my kids. But it is the state's responsibility to provide access to good education for my kids.

Here in the States, I find schools are less concerned with subject matter, eyond basic reading and math. Test scores indicate we don't even manage to teach that! Science is neglected, so are other subjects, unless one's child is fortunate enough to make it to a "magnet" school. Children are bused past neighborhood schools to balance the population. At school, there's gun checks, self-esteem issues, how to get along with each other issues, and crowd control. My personal favorite is mandatory Physical Education classes, which a friend tells me consists of putting on one's PE uniform, sitting in the gym in lines while the teacher does roll call and then changing back into school dress because there's no time for PE after calling all the names! I complain. I vote. I argue for better education, but I am not throwing my kids into the mix and losing their chance to be educated!

I still have serious doubts if it is possible to have the same depth in each subject. Home schooling does somewhat limit the resources you have regarding teaching material and various sources of knowledge.
Having different teachers who sepcify in one or two subjects, but still may or may not agree 100% with the teacher you had the year before or will have the year after something I regarded as valuable asset at school.

That's why there's the web. If you don't agree with something you've learned - look it up. If you've got questions, look it up. Hey, if you have more questions, let's head to the library or better yet, ask Mr. So and So, who works in that field.

One aspect of home schooling that people don't understand is that we don't just stick to the text book.

That's why there's the web. If you don't agree with something you've learned - look it up. If you've got questions, look it up. Hey, if you have more questions, let's head to the library or better yet, ask Mr. So and So, who works in that field.

One aspect of home schooling that people don't understand is that we don't just stick to the text book.

I never assumed that. But considering the vast amount of sources and opinions that my school presented, I simply cannot imagine ever being able to present that to my children myself.

I never assumed that. But considering the vast amount of sources and opinions that my school presented, I simply cannot imagine ever being able to present that to my children myself.

I am not my children's only source of learning anything, you really have to get past the picture of the kids chained to the kitchen table all day learning from mom picture of homeschool that you have. Try to look at me as the school superintendent, more than their teacher, I choose the curriculum, I make sure there are teachers for the subjects offered, etc.

The only difference between them going to school, and them homeschooling is who is responsible for their educational opportunities.