NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg18925331.200-take-a-leap-into-hyperspace.html

According to the paper, this hyperdrive motor would propel a craft through another dimension at enormous speeds. It could leave Earth at lunchtime and get to the moon in time for dinner. There's just one catch: the idea relies on an obscure and largely unrecognised kind of physics. Can they possibly be serious?

I'm not a physisct, so I'll ask those who are out there, can you take this seriously...?

I tried to read it but the physics overloaded my brain.

i only skimmed through it.
i think its taking about putting yourself in a gravity like bubble so the craft is moving really fast were as people in it feel like there are not.
thats my guess whats it is about.

http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg18925331.200-take-a-leap-into-hyperspace.html



I'm not a physisct, so I'll ask those who are out there, can you take this seriously...?


Im no physcist, but from what I cant tell, they basically say that the theory involves more dimensions than four.
They say that there are at least six dimensions.
(this is important, but very complicated as to why).

So, the theory is, that a rotating electromagnetic field will reduce gravity's effect on a ship, and even propel a craft, without need for fuel.

Essentially, a ship leaving Earths gravitational pull, must overcome that pull, to leave earths orbit.
Currently, this requires tremendous amounts of thrust.

This theory states by surrounding such a ship with a strong enough rotating electromagnetic field, will actually repel the craft from the gravitational pull.
The added bonus is tremendous speed, as gravity is lessened on the ship.

This kind of reminds me of Einstiens Unified Field Theory, saying that Gravity and Electromagnetism can actually be used as one force.

In a nutshell, the ship would use a very strong em field to use gravity, to propel a craft, instead of slow it down.

It would cut space travel time into a fraction of the time it now takes.

Is it plausible?

Good question.

These guys say the math comes out right.

Surrounding oneself with an EM field until gravity fades... sounds a bit fake, but what do I know?

Surrounding oneself with an EM field until gravity fades... sounds a bit fake, but what do I know?

Nicola Teslas experiments would sometimes shake the neighborhood.

He loved electromagnetic frequencies.

Physics and math are all just pixie dust and leprechaun gold anyway, why not use unrecognised branches of physics to make hyperdrives?

Physics and math are all just pixie dust and leprechaun gold anyway, why not use unrecognised branches of physics to make hyperdrives?

Becuase the ones we have, cant.

Besides, all branches of pyhsics were unrecognized at some point.

I say, give em a couple million dollars, and see if they blow themselves up.

I'm familiar with Burkhard Heim's work.

Gravitation's interaction with quantum mechanics has always been a pet project of mine.

That and oatmeal juggling. :)

Seems like it may be possible. With a strong enough magnetic field, you can levitate anything. I wouldn't hold my breath though. It will likely take a century or more to just to develop a working theory in which experiments could actually be conducted and measured. Still, it is an encouraging thought that my great grandchildren could set foot on a place outside the solar system.

As a clarification, this field suspends gravity, and not the other laws of motion, which means relativity still applies, no?

As a clarification, this field suspends gravity, and not the other laws of motion, which means relativity still applies, no?

Yes, and no.

Apparently, one of the scientist that was working on the project, believes that Eisntiens relativity, and Quantum Mechanics are...well...unified.

So...instead of space being four dimensions, like Albert told us...theres six.

So...yes..other laws of motion still apply....i think.

Quantum theory describes the realm of the very small - atoms, electrons and elementary particles - while general relativity deals with gravity. The two theories are immensely successful in their separate spheres. The clash arises when it comes to describing the basic structure of space. In general relativity, space-time is an active, malleable fabric. It has four dimensions - three of space and one of time - that deform when masses are placed in them. In Einstein's formulation, the force of gravity is a result of the deformation of these dimensions. Quantum theory, on the other hand, demands that space is a fixed and passive stage, something simply there for particles to exist on. It also suggests that space itself must somehow be made up of discrete, quantum elements.

As a clarification, this field suspends gravity, and not the other laws of motion, which means relativity still applies, no?

Yes and no.

C, "the velocity of light" is an absolute speed limit. But by altering gravitation, it could be possible to change the speed limit. If you change C to C2, You could go faster than the original velocity of light(C) without exceeding the new velocity of light(C2). Of course, at this point, causality rears it's ugly head so all bets are off. :)

Yes and no.

C, "the velocity of light" is an absolute speed limit. But by altering gravitation, it could be possible to change the speed limit. If you change C to C2, You could go faster than the original velocity of light(C) without exceeding the new velocity of light(C2). Of course, at this point, causality rears it's ugly head so all bets are off. :)

Not to mention the possibility of breaking down, and becoming nothing more than charged particles.

*PIFF*

Yes and no.

C, "the velocity of light" is an absolute speed limit. But by altering gravitation, it could be possible to change the speed limit. If you change C to C2, You could go faster than the original velocity of light(C) without exceeding the new velocity of light(C2). Of course, at this point, causality rears it's ugly head so all bets are off. :)

Why does that smile make me nervous? :p

Why does that smile make me nervous? :p

Becuase he generates an aura of chaos.

Why does that smile make me nervous? :p

That's part of it's charm. :)

Becuase he generates an aura of chaos.

All clowns do. :)

All clowns do. :)

There's something scary about a clown who knows so much about physics.

There's something scary about a clown who knows so much about physics.
Clowns have to be masters of physics. They'd fall off the unicycles if not.

There's something scary about a clown who knows so much about physics.

Physical Comedy. :)

Yes, and no.

Apparently, one of the scientist that was working on the project, believes that Eisntiens relativity, and Quantum Mechanics are...well...unified.

So...instead of space being four dimensions, like Albert told us...theres six.

So...yes..other laws of motion still apply....i think.

From the article it says the original guy had 8 and then discarded down to six dimensions. But someone else who went back and looked over his theory reintroduced 2 dimensions so it is currently at 8 dimensions. Relativity still applies as this theory comes from deriving relativity from a quantum mechanical framework. They also say that if the spinning magnetic field can be made big enough and fast enough then the space ship may enter one of the other dimensions (not Einstein's 4 dimensions) where universal constants may behave differently and have different values. This means the speed of light could be faster and therefore the maximum speed you could travel at would be faster.

That is how I have interpreted the article as I have nether come across the theory before and I am unlikely to be able to understand it as I am not a theorist.

first we need a working, efficent, safe and practical fusion reactor to supply energy needed to mantain magnetic fields. then we can start altering gravitational forces, bending space-time etc.

first we need a working, efficent, safe and practical fusion reactor to supply energy needed to mantain magnetic fields. then we can start altering gravitational forces, bending space-time etc.

the problem is to have a safe and practical fusion reactor we'll probably need use gravity altering technology

the problem is to have a safe and practical fusion reactor we'll probably need use gravity altering technology

As I recall they're building a fusion reactor in France, ITER I believe is it's acronym.. I don't think the French have mastered control of gravity.

As I recall they're building a fusion reactor in France, ITER I believe is it's acronym.. I don't think the French have mastered control of gravity.

Thats only an experiment to see if fusion power is possible
not a "safe and practical fusion reactor"

Thats only an experiment to see if fusion power is possible
not a "safe and practical fusion reactor"

We know it's possible. The sun does it all the time.

We know it's possible. The sun does it all the time.

the sun uses gravity hence my first post.....

and yes i know it can be acheived by using fission to power the reaction but thats not really "safe or practical" for creating usable energy

the sun uses gravity hence my first post.....

I know, I'm being pedantic. Actually gravity isn't required, ITER will work by using high powered magnetic fields to hold the plasma within the taurus shaped reaction chamber. There's no need to manipulate gravity to create fusion. It's been done, granted not sustained, before.

Some high powered nuclear weapons rely on a fusion reaction.

i only said 'probably need gravity' for safe & practical

you must admit it would be a lot easier to create a fusion reactor with the use of artificial gravity

i only said 'probably need gravity' for safe & practical

you must admit it would be a lot easier to create a fusion reactor with the use of artificial gravity

Yeah but we don't even know what gravity is, we know very little about it beyond Einstein's theory.

Am I the only one who has serious problems with the marbles on a rubber sheet model?

i only said 'probably need gravity' for safe & practical

you must admit it would be a lot easier to create a fusion reactor with the use of artificial gravity

If you could have artificial gravity to help compress the fuel it would help. I don't know about safe though as ITER will be really safe because if anything goes wrong it just stops working with maybe a little burn patch on one wall inside the chamber holding the plasma.

ITER is only a scaled up model to comfirm that the concept works, to make it practical for power generation will require it to be scalled up in size even more.

Yeah but we don't even know what gravity is, we know very little about it beyond Einstein's theory.

Am I the only one who has serious problems with the marbles on a rubber sheet model?

Marbles on a rubber sheet is used to try and give people not specialised in that area of physics an idea of what it is describing.

That and oatmeal juggling. :)
wet or dry?

http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg18925331.200-take-a-leap-into-hyperspace.html



I'm not a physisct, so I'll ask those who are out there, can you take this seriously...?

hells yes its totaly possible. its got to do with perseption of time and what not. time is a flimsy idea once your past taht any thing can happen

It makes me really, really happy whenever scientists talk about travelling at superluminal speeds through space.

:)

Marbles on a rubber sheet is used to try and give people not specialised in that area of physics an idea of what it is describing.

Yeah but it's not even close to correct. Kind of a useless comparison.

Yes and no.

C, "the velocity of light" is an absolute speed limit. But by altering gravitation, it could be possible to change the speed limit. If you change C to C2, You could go faster than the original velocity of light(C) without exceeding the new velocity of light(C2). Of course, at this point, causality rears it's ugly head so all bets are off. :)

it's not quite that simple from my understanding.

I don't think you can actually change the speed at which light travels via simple gravity. WHat is theoretically possible is using focused gravity to simultaniously expand space in front of you while contracting it behind you, pushing you forward sort of like pulling up a zipper.

Because the ship is not actually having a velocity, but rather it remains stationary while space moves around it, it would theoretically have no maximum speed.

I really hope I can travel to a star or planet other then earth before I die...

wet or dry?

Exactly. :)

it's not quite that simple from my understanding.

I don't think you can actually change the speed at which light travels via simple gravity. WHat is theoretically possible is using focused gravity to simultaniously expand space in front of you while contracting it behind you, pushing you forward sort of like pulling up a zipper.

Because the ship is not actually having a velocity, but rather it remains stationary while space moves around it, it would theoretically have no maximum speed.

I'm trying to keep things relatively simple(pun intended). The gist of it is that gravitation is the only force we know of that can alter the velocity of light.

The Light-Speed Barrier
No, this is not like the "sound barrier", it is much more fundamental.

That old spoil-sport Einstein created his theory of General and Special Relativity. Before that, Newtonian physics predicted that if your spacecraft burnt X amount of fuel, it would be accelerated by a velocity of Y, always. Which makes common sense.

Relativity says that may be true at normal velocities, but it doesn't hold at speeds close to the speed of light "c". At those speeds, burning X amount of fuel will accelerate your spacecraft by less than Y, i.e., to accelerate by Y, you need to burn more than X fuel.

And to move at the speed of light, you'd need an infinite amount of fuel. And more than infinity if you want to move faster. Since it is impossible to burn an infinite amount of fuel it is impossible to move at the speed of light, let alone faster.

Your average physicist holds Relativity quite strongly. It has been tested again and again with an accuracy of many decimal places. They hold onto Causality even tighter. Without Causality the entire structure of physics crumbles. Causes must preceed effects, or it becomes impossible to make predictions. If it is impossible to make predictions, it would be best to give up physics for a more profitable line of work.

There are a few semi-plausible FTL methods out there. One of the most famous is Dr. Miguel Alcubierre "Warp Drive", along with Chris Van Den Broeck's improvement. There are others at Dr. John Cramer's Alternate View archives, Edward Halerewicz, Jr.'s Warp Physics site, Marcelo B. Ribeiro's Warp Drive Theory site, Lawrence H. Ford and Thomas A. Roman's Scientific American article Negative Energy, Wormholes and Warp Drive, David Waite's Modern Relativity site (if you can understand the math), and NASA's Warp Drive When?

More on the fringe is Burkhard Heim and his theory of everything. If the theory describes reality, it could give a form of FTL travel with an artifical gravity propulsion system at no extra charge.

The Light-Speed Barrier
No, this is not like the "sound barrier", it is much more fundamental.

That old spoil-sport Einstein created his theory of General and Special Relativity. Before that, Newtonian physics predicted that if your spacecraft burnt X amount of fuel, it would be accelerated by a velocity of Y, always. Which makes common sense.

Relativity says that may be true at normal velocities, but it doesn't hold at speeds close to the speed of light "c". At those speeds, burning X amount of fuel will accelerate your spacecraft by less than Y, i.e., to accelerate by Y, you need to burn more than X fuel.

And to move at the speed of light, you'd need an infinite amount of fuel. And more than infinity if you want to move faster. Since it is impossible to burn an infinite amount of fuel it is impossible to move at the speed of light, let alone faster.

Your average physicist holds Relativity quite strongly. It has been tested again and again with an accuracy of many decimal places. They hold onto Causality even tighter. Without Causality the entire structure of physics crumbles. Causes must preceed effects, or it becomes impossible to make predictions. If it is impossible to make predictions, it would be best to give up physics for a more profitable line of work.

There are a few semi-plausible FTL methods out there. One of the most famous is Dr. Miguel Alcubierre "Warp Drive", along with Chris Van Den Broeck's improvement. There are others at Dr. John Cramer's Alternate View archives, Edward Halerewicz, Jr.'s Warp Physics site, Marcelo B. Ribeiro's Warp Drive Theory site, Lawrence H. Ford and Thomas A. Roman's Scientific American article Negative Energy, Wormholes and Warp Drive, David Waite's Modern Relativity site (if you can understand the math), and NASA's Warp Drive When?

More on the fringe is Burkhard Heim and his theory of everything. If the theory describes reality, it could give a form of FTL travel with an artifical gravity propulsion system at no extra charge.

Note that there is no rule that says than an object cannot travel faster than light. Only that it cannot surpass the velocity of light. Theoretically, if an object were always traveling faster than light, it could move at any speed it wanted(as long as it does not decelerate to the velocity of light).

Also, if it were possible to cause an object to spontaneously travel beyond the velocity of light without acceleration, there is no limit to it's speed.

:)

But if something istraveling faster than light it does all kinds of nasty things to Causality. The Alcubierre warp drive is better because it conserves causality by isolating the ship in a discrete bubble of 'normal' space-time.

Heims warp drive works by using strong rotating EM fields to alter local gravity (which has been experimentally proven to be possible). Heim's drive could propel a space craft just fine, but it doesn't provide a way to conserve causality so it ain't an FTL drive.

Also, Heim's theory of everything is disputed by the most recent M-theory that says there are 11 dimensions interacting wiht four dimensional 'P-branes' of which the observable universere is one.

M-theory is still incomplete, but its a unification of the 5 super-string theories which say mroe or less the same thing only much more complicated and don't predict certain phenomena as well as M-theory.

*is not a real life physicist, but plays one on T.V.*

But if something istraveling faster than light it does all kinds of nasty things to Causality. The Alcubierre warp drive is better because it conserves causality by isolating the ship in a discrete bubble of 'normal' space-time.

Heims warp drive works by using strong rotating EM fields to alter local gravity (which has been experimentally proven to be possible). Heim's drive could propel a space craft just fine, but it doesn't provide a way to conserve causality so it ain't an FTL drive.

Also, Heim's theory of everything is disputed by the most recent M-theory that says there are 11 dimensions interacting wiht four dimensional 'P-branes' of which the observable universere is one.

M-theory is still incomplete, but its a unification of the 5 super-string theories which say mroe or less the same thing only much more complicated and don't predict certain phenomena as well as M-theory.

*is not a real life physicist, but plays one on T.V.*

This is, of course, assuming that causality is even an issue, which is not exactly rock solid. :)

What we really need to find out is if gravitation has a velocity. *nod*

true, but the currently excepted theories hold that it is, so for now, we must assume it is.

And as far as I know, gravity has been experimentally proven to propagate at the speed of light.

true, but the currently excepted theories hold that it is, so for now, we must assume it is.

And as far as I know, gravity has been experimentally proven to propagate at the speed of light.

Proven? I didn't know that. Though, Einstein believed it propagates at the speed of light, and I'm not prepared to argue with him. Though others have. *nod*

I can repair your hyperdrive in no time. Warpdrive? Not so much.

If they are not working on the Improbability Drive, they are simply chasing ghosts down all the wrong avenues.

Proven? I didn't know that. Though, Einstein believed it propagates at the speed of light, and I'm not prepared to argue with him. Though others have. *nod*

Ah ha, Found it!

http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2003/gravity/
The National Radio Observatory measured the speed of the Propagation of Gravity, found that it matched the Speed of light to an acceptable degree of uncertainty.

Why does that smile make me nervous? :p

Probably because on a quantum scale (where things are always weird), causality does not apply.

Making quantum behavior real on a macro scale is a frightening concept. You could arrive before you left.

I don't like it! Sounds like something that would leave one hell of a mess if it ever blew up, here on the ground, while in development. Could make a hell of a weapon but probably "too" hell of a weapon! :eek:

I don't like it! Sounds like something that would leave one hell of a mess if it ever blew up, here on the ground, while in development. Could make a hell of a weapon but probably "too" hell of a weapon! :eek:

I don't know.

If you could just throw a switch, and a large area of some foreign nation disappeared into another dimension forever with nary a ripple or sound (other than the small popping sound a soap bubble might make), that would be great.

No fallout, no dead bodies, no crumbled infrastructure, no refugees, just a revision in Google Earth.

Oh, and not even any Photoshopped war scenes on Reuters...

I don't know.

If you could just throw a switch, and a large area of some foreign nation disappeared into another dimension forever with nary a ripple or sound (other than the small popping sound a soap bubble might make), that would be great.

No fallout, no dead bodies, no crumbled infrastructure, no refugees, just a revision in Google Earth.

Oh, and not even any Photoshopped war scenes on Reuters...

LoL! Bubble pop? Yes!

I had heard a few things about Russian magnetic weapons back in the 80s and they sounded pretty devestating. Havn't heard anything since so I'm assuming they decided it's not worth the risk.

...

I really wish I had super grin back...this just makes me so happy...so happy...we've heard about cloaking devices, teleportation, and a form of FTL drive within our reach of technology all in the past couple weeks. Aiyah...

The bottom-line remains that nobody has any idea about how to meet the massive gargartuan energy requirements for even a short flight!

LoL! Bubble pop? Yes!

I had heard a few things about Russian magnetic weapons back in the 80s and they sounded pretty devestating. Havn't heard anything since so I'm assuming they decided it's not worth the risk.

it would be more than a bubble pop, shoving any reasonable amount of the Earth (like, about the size of a small country) would casue some horrendous winds (and wave action if the disapeared territory ahd a coast) and let's not even start on larger countries (I have a ref for the larget amount of mass that could be 'disapeared' from earths surface without tottally killing all life on the planet, its much smaller than you'd expect, I'lltry to find it.)

And on Soviet 'Magnetic weapons' These thigns are always popping up, back in the day we thought that the Sovs were all mad-scientists creating crazy doomsday weapons and to thiday people believe that things like magnetic weapons, Scalar Energy Death Rays, Zero-Point Bombs, Weather control devices, large scale mind control devices and who knows what else are just sitting in some Russian Warehouse somewhere. Many more think they were destroyed when the Union fell but the turth is many of these weapons rely on disporven fields of physics (Zero-Point Bomb), crack pot theories (wide scale mind control, weather control) misunderstandings of physiscs (Magnetic weapons) or are based on fringe sciences that haven't been conclusively proven or disproven becasue no one can even devise an experiment to test them yet (Scalar Energy Death Rays)

Not only dot he famed Soviet Doomsday Devices not eist, for the most part they couldn't exist.

The bottom-line remains that nobody has any idea about how to meet the massive gargartuan energy requirements for even a short flight!

thats why we need a stable fusion reactor. To have a fusion reactor to supply us incredible replenishable(not exactly but in plenty) energy we need gravity. But we dont yet have artificial gravity so we use magnetic fields. The problem is our current energy technology isnt capable of mantaining even that magnetic field for a long time. When we ddo that we have fusion, when we have fusion we have even stronger magnetic fields and therefore artificial gravity. These two forces enable us to mess with entire universe, dimensions etc.

Ah ha, Found it!

http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2003/gravity/
The National Radio Observatory measured the speed of the Propagation of Gravity, found that it matched the Speed of light to an acceptable degree of uncertainty.

Well, in my mind, that's a strong indicator that causality is indeed an issue for any attempt to surpass the velocity of light. *nod*

it would be more than a bubble pop, shoving any reasonable amount of the Earth (like, about the size of a small country) would casue some horrendous winds (and wave action if the disapeared territory ahd a coast) and let's not even start on larger countries (I have a ref for the larget amount of mass that could be 'disapeared' from earths surface without tottally killing all life on the planet, its much smaller than you'd expect, I'lltry to find it.)

And on Soviet 'Magnetic weapons' These thigns are always popping up, back in the day we thought that the Sovs were all mad-scientists creating crazy doomsday weapons and to thiday people believe that things like magnetic weapons, Scalar Energy Death Rays, Zero-Point Bombs, Weather control devices, large scale mind control devices and who knows what else are just sitting in some Russian Warehouse somewhere. Many more think they were destroyed when the Union fell but the turth is many of these weapons rely on disporven fields of physics (Zero-Point Bomb), crack pot theories (wide scale mind control, weather control) misunderstandings of physiscs (Magnetic weapons) or are based on fringe sciences that haven't been conclusively proven or disproven becasue no one can even devise an experiment to test them yet (Scalar Energy Death Rays)

Not only dot he famed Soviet Doomsday Devices not eist, for the most part they couldn't exist.

:confused:

Then what the hell did I just buy off Ebay?!?

*looks at Soviet Death ray suspiciously*

Ah ha, Found it!

http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2003/gravity/
The National Radio Observatory measured the speed of the Propagation of Gravity, found that it matched the Speed of light to an acceptable degree of uncertainty.
Which makes sense.
Think of this way: If the moon was to suddenly disappear while you were sat basking in it's glorious fullness one night, what would happen?
The light would disappear and tides would drop (or rise, dependent on the place).
But would they both happen simultaneously?
The tides are controlled by the Moon's gravity. and the light takes a few seconds to come to Earth.
If we assume that the tides would drop/raise immediately, then the light disappear this implies that gravity is faster than the speed of light.
Which can't happen.
They would both occur at the same time, which proves the speed of light is the fastest thing around, and shows us the true nature of gravity and accelerated motion.

...

I really wish I had super grin back...this just makes me so happy...so happy...we've heard about cloaking devices, teleportation, and a form of FTL drive within our reach of technology all in the past couple weeks. Aiyah...

Don't forget those nifty lasers the US is about to put into production

Airborne Laser, and Airborne Tactical Laser...

:confused:

Then what the hell did I just buy off Ebay?!?

*looks at Soviet Death ray suspiciously*

That thing I used to have in my garage that kept blinking and flashing, and flashing and blinking...

I never figured out what it was for, but it annoyed the heck out of me.

Don't forget those nifty lasers the US is about to put into production

Airborne Laser, and Airborne Tactical Laser...

you mean the crapy ones that shoot at ground targets cause of deffraction? and they also need an extra radar plane fying around inorder to work?

you mean the crapy ones that shoot at ground targets cause of deffraction? and they also need an extra radar plane fying around inorder to work?

No, I mean the one that has 400% more output than planned (by accident).

Diffraction and thermal blooming are two different things. We're not having diffraction problems, and the thermal blooming is dependent on our output frequency.

The ATL and ABL have already had first light, and they're only testing the tracking and pointing now - slated to be in production within the year.

Sure, the ABL needs other radar input. But so do most other systems, if you expect them to work at extremely long ranges. It's called cueing, and if you don't use cueing, you can't use ANY weapon to hit at the ranges they're talking about.

The ATL uses its own mirror as a targeting device - you're going to be looking at the hairs on people's necks before you blow a 4-inch wide hole through their heads.

That and oatmeal juggling. :)

Lies! It was the oatmeal catapult that was your pet project!

http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg18925331.200-take-a-leap-into-hyperspace.html



I'm not a physisct, so I'll ask those who are out there, can you take this seriously...?

It is serious :)

On the other hand, why is the US military interested at a work of a German physicist who didnt want his work to leave Germany? I hope there are copy right issues.

No, I mean the one that has 400% more output than planned (by accident).

Diffraction and thermal blooming are two different things. We're not having diffraction problems, and the thermal blooming is dependent on our output frequency.

The ATL and ABL have already had first light, and they're only testing the tracking and pointing now - slated to be in production within the year.

Sure, the ABL needs other radar input. But so do most other systems, if you expect them to work at extremely long ranges. It's called cueing, and if you don't use cueing, you can't use ANY weapon to hit at the ranges they're talking about.

The ATL uses its own mirror as a targeting device - you're going to be looking at the hairs on people's necks before you blow a 4-inch wide hole through their heads.The murderous stuff they can do these days with technology is pretty disturbing to me. I don't know why. Perhaps because of the anonimity and relative ease with which people can be killed with little or no trauma for the murderer/assassin in question. Just pushing a button and woosh, there goes the lives of countless human beings. Death becomes an abstract thing. Just pixels on an LCD screen. At least in the middle ages you saw the guy's face when you stabbed em'.

Eh, I guess I'm just a pansy humanist. ;)

At least in the middle ages you saw the guy's face when you stabbed em'.


Not if you were part of the siege engine crew. Or a longbow archer. Or the guy pouring boiling oil over the ramparts.

it would be more than a bubble pop, shoving any reasonable amount of the Earth (like, about the size of a small country) would casue some horrendous winds (and wave action if the disapeared territory ahd a coast) and let's not even start on larger countries (I have a ref for the larget amount of mass that could be 'disapeared' from earths surface without tottally killing all life on the planet, its much smaller than you'd expect, I'lltry to find it.)

And on Soviet 'Magnetic weapons' These thigns are always popping up, back in the day we thought that the Sovs were all mad-scientists creating crazy doomsday weapons and to thiday people believe that things like magnetic weapons, Scalar Energy Death Rays, Zero-Point Bombs, Weather control devices, large scale mind control devices and who knows what else are just sitting in some Russian Warehouse somewhere. Many more think they were destroyed when the Union fell but the turth is many of these weapons rely on disporven fields of physics (Zero-Point Bomb), crack pot theories (wide scale mind control, weather control) misunderstandings of physiscs (Magnetic weapons) or are based on fringe sciences that haven't been conclusively proven or disproven becasue no one can even devise an experiment to test them yet (Scalar Energy Death Rays)

Not only dot he famed Soviet Doomsday Devices not eist, for the most part they couldn't exist.

Yea. It would be cool though to make our enemies disappear with a flick of a switch and a bubble pop. But your right. And it could even be a bubble pop so big you could see it from another galaxy. :eek:

Has anybody heard of what ever happened to the 53 mile long tunnel experiment for colliding atoms? (or something like that)

I thnk thats stil going to happen I'll set my google-fu on the problem and see if I can get alink that proves one way or the other.

I guess you're thinking of Quantum Vacuum Collapse (A supposed doomsday scenario that might be casued by atomic super-colliders) but thats not really a worry, super-collider experiments are relatively low-energy and the only model that shows low energy collision to be a danger is the most unstable one that would mean we're pretty much screwed anyway.