NationStates Jolt Archive

Well with Rev. Anthony Mercieca admitting to doing things with Foley that could be considered "sexually inappropriate" surely Foley can't be held responsible for his actions with pages!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15329373/

I'm sure Foley will try to argue that we shouldn't think bad of him now... :rolleyes:

*Thunder rolls, on cue*

Well with Rev. Anthony Mercieca admitting to doing things with Foley that could be considered "sexually inappropriate" surely Foley can't be held responsible for his actions with pages!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15329373/

I'm sure Foley will try to argue that we shouldn't think bad of him now... :rolleyes:

He's still a self-confessed alcoholic (I almost said "drunk" but that seemed impolite).

Har. Two wrongs don't make a right. Not that the GOP will refrain from trying to make it so. They're all about "personal responsibility," except when it comes to government teat-enlargement and scandal coverup/recovery.

Next thing yoyu know everyone will want in on the chain of admitting pedophilia. It will be the next legitimate sexuality or a fashion statement of sorts.

*shudder*

i read that article. the priest said that this was the only time he had an "inappropriate" relationship with a boy but from the way he talked about it, i think there must have been more.

he thinks it was INNOCENT to do nude massage on a 12 year old. that it was innocent to sleep naked in bed with him. maybe from HIS point of view and knowing what things he was wishing to do (and may have done while under the influence of drugs) but to a 12 year old boy that is not innocent.

its interesting that foley wasnt make it all up but it has no bearing on whether or not he should be held accountable for his deeds.

Har. Two wrongs don't make a right. Not that the GOP will refrain from trying to make it so. They're all about "personal responsibility," except when it comes to government teat-enlargement and scandal coverup/recovery.

Well they may just try to shift blame to Democrats. Or somehow put the blame on Clinton for Foley doing what he did. Luckily it isn't working and they are being hammered on this.

It really is depressing that there are some people out there who will read this and then say that Foley can't be blamed for his actions. Personal responsibility is what matters after all, not blaming other people when you screw up.

It really is depressing that there are some people out there who will read this and then say that Foley can't be blamed for his actions. Personal responsibility is what matters after all, not blaming other people when you screw up.What's really depressing, is that a random paedo party member reflects on the party. Yes I know they didn't stop it & tried to cover it up, but it still has fuck-all to do with politics. It's a reason to vote for different politicians, or become one. Not to vote for a different party.

Still, at the end of the day, I'll be happy if it makes people vote for the Dems. Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons may be pathetic, but at least it's useful.

Actually the priest hasn't confessed to molesting anyone. He said only that he and Foley had been nude together in a sauna and apparently at the same time in a cabin.


Hardly molestation to see someone naked in a sauna, if it is a communal shower must be a fuckin orgy. I got laid more in school than I ever realized.

foley is responsible as hell, repeating the past.
sadly many people that come from abusive homes or surroundings repeat the abuses and become child-molesters, abusive drunk to their wives and children and so forth.

that foley was molested or some such as a child, might be a reason and make it understandable, it does not make him free of responsibility and guilt.

Wonder how much he's being paid to say that?

Wonder how much he's being paid to say that?

Oh good. I'm not the only one who thought that.

What's really depressing, is that a random paedo party member reflects on the party. Yes I know they didn't stop it & tried to cover it up, but it still has fuck-all to do with politics. It's a reason to vote for different politicians, or become one. Not to vote for a different party.

Still, at the end of the day, I'll be happy if it makes people vote for the Dems. Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons may be pathetic, but at least it's useful.

Well, the Democrats are really the only other choice if we want to vote out those who covered up Foley's actions. It is not as if there will be another Republican choice, so voting for another party is all there is. Besides, when so many Republicans covered for their fellow, when it was some of the Repubican leadership who covered it up then it does in fact reflect on the party.

Actually the priest hasn't confessed to molesting anyone. He said only that he and Foley had been nude together in a sauna and apparently at the same time in a cabin.


Hardly molestation to see someone naked in a sauna, if it is a communal shower must be a fuckin orgy. I got laid more in school than I ever realized.

molestation covers more than being raped.


A Roman Catholic priest said he had an inappropriate two-year relationship with former Rep. Mark Foley in the 1960s that included massaging the boy in the nude, but he did not specifically remember having sex, a newspaper reported Thursday


nude massage constitutes molestation.

Well, the Democrats are really the only other choice if we want to vote out those who covered up Foley's actions. It is not as if there will be another Republican choice, so voting for another party is all there is.To be honest, I just deliberately baited you into saying that. Why? Because I wanted an American to point out your demockery is utterly dysfunctional.

I don't understand why this is acceptable to Americans. At all. In a given European country, you can relatively easily join a party, organise a general assembly & kick out the criminal scum - assuming, of course, the fuckers hadn't walked on their own.

You Americans seem to be unable to participate in the political process in any meaningful way. It looks more like a two-party dictatorship, with a public rubberstamp to make it look pretty.

Well with Rev. Anthony Mercieca admitting to doing things with Foley that could be considered "sexually inappropriate" surely Foley can't be held responsible for his actions with pages!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15329373/

I'm sure Foley will try to argue that we shouldn't think bad of him now... :rolleyes:

He doesn't admit to molesting him, just walking around naked with him in a sauna. He probably did have sex with him, but he still claims he didnt.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/congressman_e_mails;_ylt=Agg7bMyJIAyIl4PgDDAce9Ws0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OTB1amhuBHNlYwNtdHM-

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4273067.html


"ROME - An elderly priest acknowledged Thursday that he was "naked in saunas" with Mark Foley decades ago when the former congressman was a boy in Florida, but denied that the two had sex. " (Yahoo News, FRANCES D'EMILIO)

At this point, who knows? They probably did it, but at this point, according to his testimony, that didn't happen.

I heard this on All Things Considered yesterday: "Despite his resignation, former Rep. Mark Foley will remain on the ballot this November. That led satirists Kluger and Slavin to create a fake campaign ad (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6298610) for the controversial congressman."

To be honest, I just deliberately baited you into saying that. Why? Because I wanted an American to point out your demockery is utterly dysfunctional.

I don't understand why this is acceptable to Americans. At all. In a given European country, you can relatively easily join a party, organise a general assembly & kick out the criminal scum - assuming, of course, the fuckers hadn't walked on their own.

You Americans seem to be unable to participate in the political process in any meaningful way. It looks more like a two-party dictatorship, with a public rubberstamp to make it look pretty.

You could say that two parties provide stability and not having the chaos that comes from multiple factions. I do think however that often both parties suck but given that you need millions to get elected it is not as if third party candadites have much of a chance.

I'd much rather have Democrats be elected anyway and Republicans have recently shown that they can not be trusted to be in office.

He doesn't admit to molesting him, just walking around naked with him in a sauna. He probably did have sex with him, but he still claims he didnt.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/congressman_e_mails;_ylt=Agg7bMyJIAyIl4PgDDAce9Ws0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OTB1amhuBHNlYwNtdHM-

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4273067.html


"ROME - An elderly priest acknowledged Thursday that he was "naked in saunas" with Mark Foley decades ago when the former congressman was a boy in Florida, but denied that the two had sex. " (Yahoo News, FRANCES D'EMILIO)

At this point, who knows? They probably did it, but at this point, according to his testimony, that didn't happen.

I would consider what he did to be the same thing. Going around naked with Foley as a boy and giving him massages is certainly molestation to me. Besides, even if nothing worse happens it is certainly enough for Foley to try and excuse his own actions.

Well with Rev. Anthony Mercieca admitting to doing things with Foley that could be considered "sexually inappropriate" surely Foley can't be held responsible for his actions with pages!

Everyone is responsible for his own actions. The wrongs of others do not justify your own.

I would consider what he did to be the same thing. Going around naked with Foley as a boy and giving him massages is certainly molestation to me. Besides, even if nothing worse happens it is certainly enough for Foley to try and excuse his own actions.

You bring up a good point mate. I concur.

I don't understand why this is acceptable to Americans. At all. In a given European country, you can relatively easily join a party, organise a general assembly & kick out the criminal scum - assuming, of course, the fuckers hadn't walked on their own.


Which given European country exactly is it in which you have kicked out all of the criminal scum from politics? Whichever one it is good show sir, you've done what no other nation in the course of human history has done. Or you have lied through your teeth in this instance. It is hard to say which without more information.

You could say that two parties provide stability and not having the chaos that comes from multiple factions. I do think however that often both parties such but given that you need millions to get elected it is not as if third party candadites have much of a chance.

I'd much rather have Democrats be elected anyway and Republicans have recently shown that they can not be trusted to be in office.

Whereas the Democrats haven't shown that quite as recently?

*snicker*

I'm with Sim on this one. It really does look like a two-party dictatorship with a public rubberstamp.

Though he might want to avoid broad generalizations of nationalities if he doesn't want to get accused of trolling.

You could say that two parties provide stability and not having the chaos that comes from multiple factions. I do think however that often both parties such but given that you need millions to get elected it is not as if third party candadites have much of a chance.

I'd much rather have Democrats be elected anyway and Republicans have recently shown that they can not be trusted to be in office.

It's true, the US system is a two-party dictatorship, in fact, we occasionally see the sad poll that says many Americans think it's illegal to form a third party here.

Anyway, I see it as a trade-off. Our two parties have grown to be very much alike in many ways, though that might change if the Democrats re-evolved a spine. The European system of coalition governments made up of many factions can lead to chaos, as Utracia said. So, six of one, half a dozen of the other.

It's true, the US system is a two-party dictatorship, in fact, we occasionally see the sad poll that says many Americans think it's illegal to form a third party here.

Anyway, I see it as a trade-off. Our two parties have grown to be very much alike in many ways, though that might change if the Democrats re-evolved a spine. The European system of coalition governments made up of many factions can lead to chaos, as Utracia said. So, six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Too true.

Whereas the Democrats haven't shown that quite as recently?

*snicker*

I'm with Sim on this one. It really does look like a two-party dictatorship with a public rubberstamp.

Though he might want to avoid broad generalizations of nationalities if he doesn't want to get accused of trolling.

Those democrats who voted for that Torture Bill are traitors to what the party stands for and should be replaced. As to anything else, no one is perfect but I don't think they approach to the Republican antics of late. The only response Republicans can come up with in their frequent scandals is to try and blame Clinton. The GOP can do no wrong after all, everything negative that happens is becuase of Clinton I'm sure.

Especially funny when certain GOP supporters try to compare Monica with teenage pages. The two situations being totally alike and all. :rolleyes:

Those democrats who voted for that Torture Bill are traitors to what the party stands for and should be replaced. As to anything else, no one is perfect but I don't think they approach to the Republican antics of late. The only response Republicans can come up with in their frequent scandals is to try and blame Clinton. The GOP can do no wrong after all, everything negative that happens is becuase of Clinton I'm sure.

I have no fears that the Democrats will do their best to equal their GOP counterparts in scandals once they have the reins of corruption...err...power. Neither side has ever disappointed in this way so far.

I have no fears that the Democrats will do their best to equal their GOP counterparts in scandals once they have the reins of corruption...err...power. Neither side has ever disappointed in this way so far.

Perhaps it just goes in waves. For the Republicans we have Ney, Lott, DeLay, Foley...

I suppose the Dems are due for a scandal of their own?

You could say that two parties provide stability and not having the chaos that comes from multiple factions.I could, but I've seen nothing to suggest that's actually the case. At least not to any significant degree.I do think however that often both parties suck but given that you need millions to get elected it is not as if third party candadites have much of a chance.So what you're left with, are two top-down controlled political parties, who rely on corporate interests for funding, and who largely won't even act on their cosmetical differences, because that would risk alienating potential swing votes.I'd much rather have Democrats be elected anyway and Republicans have recently shown that they can not be trusted to be in office.Yes well.. Bush really certainly is something. But ignoring his mindboggling career for a moment, your two major parties seem to have the same fundamental domestic & forign policy. It's pretty much like vanilla or vanilla with nuts (or nutters, as is the case).Which given European country exactly is it in which you have kicked out all of the criminal scum from politics? Whichever one it is good show sir, you've done what no other nation in the course of human history has done. Or you have lied through your teeth in this instance. It is hard to say which without more information.Not Bad, you should probably read the post you quoted again. I didn't say there aren't any criminals in european politics. I said they're relatively easy to get rid of. The difference is unfortunately depressingly vast.
Had I said what you thought I said, I would almost certainly have been lying. It's not realitic to expect all politicians in any given european country to be law abiding (or decent people, which is what I really meant). There's just too many of them.we occasionally see the sad poll that says many Americans think it's illegal to form a third party here.Scary...Though he might want to avoid broad generalizations of nationalities if he doesn't want to get accused of trolling.Trolling? Not intentionally at least. I was baiting in my first post in this thread, but not maliciously so. It's just more constructive to let Americans start criticising their political system if you're a forigner, in my experience. Otherwise things tend to get bogged down in random angry accusations.

I molested Mark Foley. There I admit it.

Those democrats who voted for that Torture Bill are traitors to what the party stands for and should be replaced. As to anything else, no one is perfect but I don't think they approach to the Republican antics of late. The only response Republicans can come up with in their frequent scandals is to try and blame Clinton. The GOP can do no wrong after all, everything negative that happens is becuase of Clinton I'm sure.

Especially funny when certain GOP supporters try to compare Monica with teenage pages. The two situations being totally alike and all. :rolleyes:

Oh I agree with you that the Repubs are screwing up worse than the Dems at the moment. I just don't see voting for the Dems because of it as a viable solution.

Whichever party it is that gets in power has an amazing tendency to screw things up. This suggests to me that the problem lies with the people being elected in general rather than a particular party. Essentially, we need better people, not different parties.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that getting better people is going to mean massive educational and social reform. Sadly, that's unlikely to happen no matter which party is in power, leaving us in a situation where a failing government perpetuates itself by screwing the people over.

Yes well.. Bush really certainly is something. But ignoring his mindboggling career for a moment, your two major parties seem to have the same fundamental domestic & forign policy. It's pretty much like vanilla or vanilla with nuts (or nutters, as is the case).

I think if one party had dominance over another differences would appear. Which is why the GOP's insane policies are passing despite the majority of Dems opposing. If the election goes as it should then the next two years will probably be deadlock. It should definately get the GOP to tone down and slow their assualts on our civil liberties.

Wonder how much he's being paid to say that?

Oh good. I'm not the only one who thought that.

Ha. My first thought on reading this story was "Hmmm... that priest must be a very loyal Republican..." So no, you are not the only one.

Those democrats who voted for that Torture Bill are traitors to what the party stands for and should be replaced. As to anything else, no one is perfect but I don't think they approach to the Republican antics of late. The only response Republicans can come up with in their frequent scandals is to try and blame Clinton. The GOP can do no wrong after all, everything negative that happens is becuase of Clinton I'm sure.

Especially funny when certain GOP supporters try to compare Monica with teenage pages. The two situations being totally alike and all. :rolleyes:
Funny you should mention Monica, 'cause I was just thinking maybe we should get her another spot at the White House. Apparently lying about sex is the only impeachable offense these days.

You're right that the Republicans do fall back on the "It was Clinton's Fault" answer a lot. I think the Dems should make that a campaign slogan. For instance, the stock market just it 12,000: it was Clinton's fault!

And I have been very disappointed in a great many Democrats of late, in particular one of my Senators, Ken Salazar. Coalition-building is one thing, and supporting your own people is admirable, but Attorney General Gonzales is the man who first advised Bush that maybe a little torture, it depends on how you define it, it's not so bad.

Oh I agree with you that the Repubs are screwing up worse than the Dems at the moment. I just don't see voting for the Dems because of it as a viable solution.

Whichever party it is that gets in power has an amazing tendency to screw things up. This suggests to me that the problem lies with the people being elected in general rather than a particular party. Essentially, we need better people, not different parties.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that getting better people is going to mean massive educational and social reform. Sadly, that's unlikely to happen no matter which party is in power, leaving us in a situation where a failing government perpetuates itself by screwing the people over.

I don't think the Dems could do worse and they might do better, you don't know. If they're both equally despicable, what difference does it make? And yeah, being in power 12 years has made the Republicans a wee bit arrogant, which is why you see the scandals, I think. They got sloppy. Before 1994 they loved chasing scandalous Democrats - I seem to recall the Speaker of the House getting chased - but now the shoe's on the other foot.

Ultimately, yes, better people and better ideas. Better living through education, there's a slogan. We can find billions to invade Iraq but we still pay teachers some of the lowest wages around.

"Think of the children!"

"No child left behind!"

Bite me.

The future of America.

Uh huh.

All we can think of to do is create standardized tests and make school funding dependent on those scores, so of course, that's what the schools are teaching to now. And all the school boards are doing, when not fussing over the test scores, is figuring out ways to avoid being sued by a disgruntled parent.

Bah. I will vote for anyone who honestly proposes funding education the way it should be funded, without sending the country into debt, but I ain't holding my breath.

[/rant]

I don't think the Dems could do worse and they might do better, you don't know. If they're both equally despicable, what difference does it make?

That was exactly my point.

And yeah, being in power 12 years has made the Republicans a wee bit arrogant, which is why you see the scandals, I think. They got sloppy. Before 1994 they loved chasing scandalous Democrats - I seem to recall the Speaker of the House getting chased - but now the shoe's on the other foot.

I agree. I'm actually glad to see their screw-ups being brought to light. I think the Repubs needed a wake-up call that helped people recognize the fact that they were going in the wrong direction and being hypocritical, and hopefully this is it. I know my parents, both of whom tend to vote Republican, are now a lot less biased because they finally see that the Republicans aren't a party of morals any more than the Dems.

Ultimately, yes, better people and better ideas. Better living through education, there's a slogan. We can find billions to invade Iraq but we still pay teachers some of the lowest wages around.

"Think of the children!"

"No child left behind!"

Bite me.

The future of America.

Uh huh.

All we can think of to do is create standardized tests and make school funding dependent on those scores, so of course, that's what the schools are teaching to now. And all the school boards are doing, when not fussing over the test scores, is figuring out ways to avoid being sued by a disgruntled parent.

Bah. I will vote for anyone who honestly proposes funding education the way it should be funded, without sending the country into debt, but I ain't holding my breath.

[/rant]

Heh. Preaching to the choir, mate. I could do a rather nice long rant about NCLB myself. Myself and every educator I know were pissed off about that one.

Bah. I will vote for anyone who honestly proposes funding education the way it should be funded, without sending the country into debt, but I ain't holding my breath.

[/rant]

I would use my vote purely upon educational issues as well if a politician advocated doing it my way. My focus would be a little different from yours though. Id vote for anyone who would advocate a curriculum stressing instruction in logic critical thinnking and civics from the earliest practicable grade levels (without ignoring the obvious needs for reading skills and mathematics). I think from these skills students (who become voters and full fledged citizens) would have far better tools and ability to grasp the concepts and the machinations of government and better be able to use them wisely. Government issues aside they (we really) would also inherit the incalculably valuable ability to educate themselves in a meaningful way upon any subject they desired, and more, a reason why they might wish to do so. I think that this change in the focus of education would drift us more onto a right track for the future and certainly we wouldnt hunt as far astray as we have in the past. I wont hold my breath for this change however.

I would use my vote purely upon educational issues as well if a politician advocated doing it my way. My focus would be a little different from yours though. Id vote for anyone who would advocate a curriculum stressing instruction in logic critical thinnking and civics from the earliest practicable grade levels (without ignoring the obvious needs for reading skills and mathematics). I think from these skills students (who become voters and full fledged citizens) would have far better tools and ability to grasp the concepts and the machinations of government and better be able to use them wisely. Government issues aside they (we really) would also inherit the incalculably valuable ability to educate themselves in a meaningful way upon any subject they desired, and more, a reason why they might wish to do so. I think that this change in the focus of education would drift us more onto a right track for the future and certainly we wouldnt hunt as far astray as we have in the past. I wont hold my breath for this change however.

I didn't actually say what I think ought to be taught, NB, and I wouldn't disagree with what you propose. I got a very good education in public school and I'm confused by the way "public school" is now a perjorative term. The schools should teach logical thinking and kids should be encouraged to educate themselves.

I didn't actually say what I think ought to be taught, NB, and I wouldn't disagree with what you propose.

You have my sincere sympathy Farny, this is considered dysfunction or worse in most quarters.;) :D

You have my sincere sympathy Farny, this is considered dysfunction or worse in most quarters.;) :D

I'm sorry ... :( ... I guess I should have said I hope you burn in the everlasting fires of hell, you heathen boy's bottom-toucher, for even daring to propose something that could lead to free thinking.

How's that? :D

Either that or we could have MTAE ship you to Madagascar. ;)

Actually, I got interrupted in the middle of that by something trivial and work-related and sort of forgot what i was saying. :p

I'm sorry ... :( ... I guess I should have said I hope you burn in the everlasting fires of hell, you heathen boy's bottom-toucher, for even daring to propose something that could lead to free thinking.

How's that? :D

Well at least it is a position I am used to and know how to work from:D

Either that or we could have MTAE ship you to Madagascar. ;)

Actually, I got interrupted in the middle of that by something trivial and work-related and sort of forgot what i was saying. :p

Work is sooo distracting. Im sometimes amazed we have put up with it as long as we have.