NationStates Jolt Archive

(Looking back over the last few pages, it seems this hasn't been posted yet, but apologies if it has.)

BBC: Oslo Gay Animal Show Draws Crowds (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6066606.stm)

Against Nature (http://www.nhm.uio.no/againstnature/index.html)

So, good way to destroy a common argument of homophobes, or evil liberal propaganda? (I notice that the URL for the BBC article contains '666'...)

I wonder what the "it's all unnatural" crow will have tosay about this finding...

On the other hand, I am sorely disappointed by the lack of a Big Gay Al reference...

I wonder what the "it's all unnatural" crow will have tosay about this finding...

Probably the same thing they've been saying for years, as people like me have pointed out over and over that homosexuality is frequently found in nature (and is as natural as heterosexuality):

"Nuh uh! Teh Gay is bad!!! It's icky! They put things up their bums, something which no heterosexuals ever do!!!! They aren't like us! They want to rape our pets and eat our babies! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!"

Probably the same thing they've been saying for years, as people like me have pointed out over and over that homosexuality is frequently found in nature (and is as natural as heterosexuality):

"Nuh uh! Teh Gay is bad!!! It's icky! They put things up their bums, something which no heterosexuals ever do!!!! They aren't like us! They want to rape our pets and eat our babies! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!"
Obviously, gay animals are actually disguised daemons created by the devil. Or not.

It's quite the spectacle watching animals have sex I suppose.

Obviously, gay animals are actually disguised daemons created by the devil. Or not.

Probably originated when Jesus threw all those daemons into a bunch of pigs and then sent them off a cliff. But not ALL the pigs were killed!!!! BWA HA HA HA HA--

Yeah. Jesus was a dick.

i guess this throws out the statment about how only humans chimps and dolphins have sex for pleasure

i guess this throws out the statment about how only humans chimps and dolphins have sex for pleasure
Yes and no. There are plenty of adaptive reasons to have sex (homosexual or heterosexual) which don't involve pleasure.

i guess this throws out the statment about how only humans chimps and dolphins have sex for pleasure
Why would anyone think animals have sex for another reason? It's not like pairs of rabbits get together to have talks about family planning...

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1566/fabuloushk0.jpg

Why would anyone think animals have sex for another reason? It's not like pairs of rabbits get together to have talks about family planning...

well i think it has to do with animals only really doing it when the females are on heat, like hormonal instructions when to breed, unlike humans dolphins and pigmy chimps who just 'bang' when ever they feel like it which is to say more often then other animals. not to say i belived the stament to begin with but it did hold some merit kinda :headbang:

I think this proves 2 things:

1. Homosexuality is natural

2. Evolution is a load of bollocks

I think this proves 2 things:

1. Homosexuality is natural

2. Evolution is a load of bollocks

if evolution is bolloks then how can anything be natural???

well i think it has to do with animals only really doing it when the females are on heat, like hormonal instructions when to breed, unlike humans dolphins and pigmy chimps who just 'bang' when ever they feel like it which is to say more often then other animals.
I think if human males had a massive reduction in testosterone for most of the year they wouldn't have sex as much either. Hormones encourage us to do things (have sex, eat, and so on), but those things are also fun to do, as an extra encouragement.

if evolution is bolloks then how can anything be natural???
All animals came into existence due to a freak quantum fluctuation in the fabirc of space-time. Or a similar theory.

I think this proves 2 things:

1. Homosexuality is natural

2. Evolution is a load of bollocks
Can you explain #2 please?

All animals came into existence due to a freak quantum fluctuation in the fabirc of space-time. Or a similar theory.

ahh i see, it all makes sense now

Hehehe :D

I saw this the other day. A norwegian reverent complained that the taxpayers money went to legitimise homosexuality by displaying what happens in the animal kingdom. He suggested the funds rather be spent on helping the animals out of this "pervertedness".

I guess what happens in nature is just too unnatural ;)

Why would anyone think animals have sex for another reason? It's not like pairs of rabbits get together to have talks about family planning...

Male black widows and praying mantisses dont seem to enjoy it much. Certainly not the afterglow. Cats arent the happiest acting things in the world when they are mating either. Let's not even get into moths and pheromones.

This reminds of that Chappelle's Show skit of Black Bush. Near the end he starts talking about Gay Marriage. "That shit is gross!". Here's a link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSWOnvClY4c&search=dave%20chappelle

go to about 4:55. That's when that part starts.

if evolution is bolloks then how can anything be natural???


cus God made us. God is natural.

Can you explain #2 please?

Well according to evolution theories, along with the idea that we used to be apes and other crap, we apparently have grown so large because of an inherent natural desire to reproduce with a female (or something like that). but if homosexuality is natural, how can that be?

cus God made us. God is natural.

if god created us then we are not natural we are designed. whether he's natural or not.

Well according to evolution theories,
along with the idea that we used to be apes and other crap,

Technically speaking, we are still apes. However, if you mean that evolutionary theory says that homo sapiens used to be gorillas or chimps or something, then you are incorrect. We share a common ancestor with modern apes, but it's like how you share a common ancestor with your cousins; you didn't use to be your cousin, nor are you descended from your cousin.


we apparently have grown so large because of an inherent natural desire to reproduce with a female (or something like that).

Again, evolutionary theory does not say this at all. I'm not entirely sure what you even mean by saying that a desire to mate with a female would make somebody grow larger (unless we're talking about one very specific region of male anatomy).

If you are talking about how mate choice may influence body size, then evolutionary theory doesn't say what you seem to think it does. Sex selection may influence body size, but it is by no means the only factor.

Furthermore, I find it interesting that your "we" appears to refer only to male human beings and male homosexuals. Are you aware that at least 51% of "we humans" is not male? What, then, would account for the size of female human beings? What about female homosexual animals? If desire to mate with a female is what causes larger body size, wouldn't that make lesbians larger?

Technically speaking, we are still apes. However, if you mean that evolutionary theory says that homo sapiens used to be gorillas or chimps or something, then you are incorrect. We share a common ancestor with modern apes, but it's like how you share a common ancestor with your cousins; you didn't use to be your cousin, nor are you descended from your cousin.


Again, evolutionary theory does not say this at all. I'm not entirely sure what you even mean by saying that a desire to mate with a female would make somebody grow larger (unless we're talking about one very specific region of male anatomy).

If you are talking about how mate choice may influence body size, then evolutionary theory doesn't say what you seem to think it does. Sex selection may influence body size, but it is by no means the only factor.

Furthermore, I find it interesting that your "we" appears to refer only to male human beings and male homosexuals. Are you aware that at least 51% of "we humans" is not male? What, then, would account for the size of female human beings? What about female homosexual animals? If desire to mate with a female is what causes larger body size, wouldn't that make lesbians larger?

by size I meant population size

Well according to evolution theories, along with the idea that we used to be apes and other crap, we apparently have grown so large because of an inherent natural desire to reproduce with a female (or something like that). but if homosexuality is natural, how can that be?

Because homosexuality has an evolutionary advantage.

Like in the article it says that gay flamingos are more capable at raising young. At the expense of those particular individuals the species as a whole wins.

Similarly, in early human societies and up untill relatively recently, homeosexuality has been used as a device to engender cohesion in hunter-gatherer groups and later armies. It helps the species as a whole for certain individuals to be more concerned with their comrades than with their families, which may often be a distraction.

by size I meant population size
Mating is only one step in the process of creating a population. See, the fertilized egg must develop into a viable infant (so the mother must survive during pregnancy), the birth must be successful, and the infant must then survive and grow. If you have tons and tons of heterosexual sex, but all your children die in infancy, your population won't grow.

Homosexual behaviors have been shown to have many different benefits. Here's just a few of them:

1) A homosexual partnership may help an individual animal survive. Their "gay partner" may help hunt or forage, may help defend against predators, or may help defend territory. The longer you survive, the more mating opportunities you may have, and the more biological children you may be able to produce.

2) Homosexual partners may assist in brood care. You may be able to team up to help care for biological children that you have produced. This may increase the likelihood that your offspring survive and thrive.

3) Homosexual activity may be related to status within your group or herd. Having better status can help both you and your offspring.

4) Homosexual activity can be used as an alternative to violent confrontations (see Bonobo chimps for a great example of this). Even if you win a violent confrontation you still may incur injuries, so it's obviously better for you if you can find a non-harmful alternative to resolve the situation.

And that's just a short list!

3) Homosexual activity may be related to status within your group or herd. Having better status can help both you and your offspring.
Also, in social groups dominated by an alpha male lower status males only infrequently have the chance to mate with females, so there's no real disadvantage in them relieving sexual frustration with the help of other males.

Incidentally, social groups dominated by alpha also produce a selective pressure in favour of bisexual females. (http://www.safalra.com/other/why-men-like-lesbians/)