NationStates Jolt Archive

So what, there's a homeless woman with AIDS and two children in the inner city. Other than possibly "funding" AIDS research, what business does the government have in intervening in that situation?

True, I have no soul.

I wonder what you would be saying if you had AIDS....*strokes chin thoughtfully*

I'd live the rest of my life as recklessly as possible, with hope that my extreme recklessness will take my life before the AIDS.

I'd live the rest of my life as recklessly as possible, with hope that my extreme recklessness will take my life before the AIDS.

Luckily thats just you. But there are many people who would think otherwise.

it's kind of a majority-rules case. i mean, there is ONE PERSON?!?! let them die. one person won't make a difference.

I wonder what you would be saying if you had AIDS....*strokes chin thoughtfully*

*brings in rusted needle*

you were saying?

it's kind of a majority-rules case. i mean, there is ONE PERSON?!?! let them die. one person won't make a difference.

There are millions of people dying of AIDS all over the world, every second of every day.

it's kind of a majority-rules case. i mean, there is ONE PERSON?!?! let them die. one person won't make a difference.

Don't forget, she has two children.

so? thats their fault. maybe they just want the money. and theres more ppl not dying than ppl that ARE dying

There are millions of people dying of AIDS all over the world, every second of every day.

And? There are millions of people dying of cancer/malnutrition/genocide/etc. all over the world, every second of every day.

so? thats their fault. maybe they just want the money. and theres more ppl not dying than ppl that ARE dying

And exactly how is that?

so? thats their fault. maybe they just want the money. and theres more ppl not dying than ppl that ARE dying

We're all dying.

And that god awful font isn't helping.

And? There are millions of people dying of cancer/malnutrition/genocide/etc. all over the world, every second of every day.

And that makes it alright for AIDS to kill millions of people every second, ETC.?

And? There are millions of people dying of cancer/malnutrition/genocide/etc. all over the world, every second of every day.

AIDS is one thing, cancer and the rest are something else. A cure to AIDS can potential stop so many people from dying.

Without a mother, the two children are even more likely to grow up into degenerates, degenerates that may possibly one day mug and/or kill you.

true, but there are more ppl not dying from it than ther are that ARE dying from it. so why make the ppl without it pay??? its not fair!!! its not our fault someone had to go and do "it" with someone and they just happened to get AIDS. I mean, really.

it'd be cheaper just to kill them all.:sniper:

true, but there are more ppl not dying from it than ther are that ARE dying from it. so why make the ppl without it pay??? its not fair!!! its not our fault someone had to go and do "it" with someone and they just happened to get AIDS. I mean, really.

AIDS can be contracted by a thousand different ways other than sex, example: your mother could have had AIDS.

true, but there are more ppl not dying from it than ther are that ARE dying from it. so why make the ppl without it pay??? its not fair!!! its not our fault someone had to go and do "it" with someone and they just happened to get AIDS. I mean, really.

it'd be cheaper just to kill them all.:sniper:

First of all, you can be born with AIDS.
Secondly, "cheaper ust to kill them all"? Thats really mature of you.

Without a mother, the two children are even more likely to grow up into degenerates, degenerates that may possibly one day mug and/or kill you.

may POSSIBLY. and spaceship may POSSIBLY come down and strike my heart killing me instantly. POSSIBLY means nothing

you do understand why people have been given things like social welfare and free education right or are you from the 1800’s

may POSSIBLY. and spaceship may POSSIBLY come down and strike my heart killing me instantly. POSSIBLY means nothing

Well theres a higher chance of a degenerate mugger/killing you than a spaceship landing down and having an alien kill you now, isn't there.

it'd be cheaper just to kill them all.:sniper:

So you want to wipe out 31 million Africans? Nice. Real nice.

SNIP

its called social security you pay taxes so you can have a military and that stops those darn Canadians from burning down your house and raping you to death same applies here

Its been true all through history just replace Canadian with barbarian

So you want to wipe out 31 million Africans? Nice. Real nice.

what have africans ever done for me?? their english annoys the poo out of me... and even though america stinks, its 2 good for them anyway. they were born stupid and will die stupid.... who cares about them anyway?

what have africans ever done for me?? their english annoys the poo out of me... and even though america stinks, its 2 good for them anyway. they were born stupid and will die stupid.... who cares about them anyway?

Wow. Sheer ignorance there. Sheer ignorance.

you do understand why people have been given things like social welfare and free education right or are you from the 1800’s

No I do not understand why people should be given these things. I understand that during the industrialization period that sweatshop labour was abhorrent, and those who worked in sweatshops were "living" or more accurately surviving in conditions now thought of as inhumane and truly disgraceful. But we no longer live in the industrial age where sweatshops are ever present do we?

Well theres a higher chance of a degenerate mugger/killing you than a spaceship landing down and having an alien kill you now, isn't there.

"Possibly" has a very vague meaning. Its interpratation differs from person to person.

true, but there are more ppl not dying from it than ther are that ARE dying from it. so why make the ppl without it pay??? its not fair!!! its not our fault someone had to go and do "it" with someone and they just happened to get AIDS. I mean, really.

it'd be cheaper just to kill them all.:sniper:

*vomits*

Just when I thought I couldn't find anyone here less worthy of belonging to the human species, this guy turns up. How delightful.

Also, I do personally support AIDS research. I think its a horrible debilitating disease, and something should be done about it. I was just using it as part of my example of someone who is in the cesspit of modern day society.

Also, I do personally support AIDS research. I think its a horrible debilitating disease, and something should be done about it. I was just using it as part of my example of someone who is in the cesspit of modern day society.

having children and a disease makes you less than someone else?

why?

No I do not understand why people should be given these things. I understand that during the industrialization period that sweatshop labour was abhorrent, and those who worked in sweatshops were "living" or more accurately surviving in conditions now thought of as inhumane and truly disgraceful. But we no longer live in the industrial age where sweatshops are ever present do we?

Ever wonder how China makes so much stuff?

having children and a disease makes you less than someone else?

why?

Being in the cesspit refering to their standing in society, and how miserable their condition is.

No I do not understand why people should be given these things. I understand that during the industrialization period that sweatshop labour was abhorrent, and those who worked in sweatshops were "living" or more accurately surviving in conditions now thought of as inhumane and truly disgraceful. But we no longer live in the industrial age where sweatshops are ever present do we?

Its to do with things like creating skilled labour which is far more useful (and profitable) than unskilled the other plus side is innovation which allows fat cats to have better machines thus making more money

There are also things like minimum wage and state meals to:

1) keep the population content (its said that a nation is always 3 meals from anarchy :eek:)
2) stop malnourishment and other health problems that will damage the workforces productivity
3) cut crime rates especially in theft of food which further damages the food sectors leading to food going up and up in price making less and less people able to afford it

Plus a host of other shit:)

Ever wonder how China makes so much stuff?

China is industrializing, its not at information age status yet.

Being in the cesspit refering to their standing in society, and how miserable their condition is.

So that makes their life worth less than yours?

China is industrializing, its not at information age status yet.

That doesn't change the fact that it has sweatshops....

what have africans ever done for me?? their english annoys the poo out of me... and even though america stinks, its 2 good for them anyway. they were born stupid and will die stupid.... who cares about them anyway?

Ok, this was a step of ridiculousness too far. No-one in the world, including the most fundy of fundies imaginable, who'd had all but three brain cells removed, is this ignorant. Just a hint there friend - trolling should be far more subtle than this malarky to be taken seriously.

No I do not understand why people should be given these things. I understand that during the industrialization period that sweatshop labour was abhorrent, and those who worked in sweatshops were "living" or more accurately surviving in conditions now thought of as inhumane and truly disgraceful. But we no longer live in the industrial age where sweatshops are ever present do we?

We no longer have sweatshops/workshops etc because we have things like welfare benefits and social security. The latter replaced the former, and with good cause.

"Possibly" has a very vague meaning. Its interpratation differs from person to person.

and many people fear crime which is why there are such huge measures to stop it (some people think where in the middle of a crime epidemic…but were not its just the media;))

That doesn't change the fact that it has sweatshops....

True, but information age economies don't have sweatshop labor, or atleast not to the degree that China does.

China is industrializing, its not at information age status yet.

go to Hong Kong then say that

the country varies really…

True, but information age economies don't have sweatshop labor, or atleast not to the degree that China does.

because all there populations are in skilled labour making more money and that’s thanks too *drum roll* state education!

We no longer have sweatshops/workshops etc because we have things like welfare benefits and social security. The latter replaced the former, and with good cause.

Just because there is a correlation between to figures does not mean that they are connected. The more likely reason was unions and minimum wage laws caused worker costs to rise, and seeing cheaper labor overseas the industrial giants outsourced. Not however because of welfare benefits and social security.

go to Hong Kong then say that

the country varies really…

Hong Kong was a British colony until about 10 years ago. Also its not a part of mainland China.

because all there populations are in skilled labour making more money and that’s thanks too *drum roll* state education!

Not necessarily, if someone was motivated they could self educate themself, or if they had the financial means (one would hope taxes would be lower due to one less service to support) then they could attend a private school. Also, keep in mind that the government dominates (some might go so far as to say monopolizes) the education industry, and because of this there is not much competition in prices.

First, AIDS was just a "gay disease."

Now it's a "poor disease."

What next?

First, AIDS was just a "gay disease."

Now it's a "poor disease."

What next?

Actually, it is BECAUSE of the fact that we lable the disease a "gay" disease or a "poor" disease that it became so prevelant in the first place, and continues to spread.

The fact of the matter is, it IS a gay disease. It is also a poor disease. And a straight disease. And a rich disease. And a mans disease. And a womans. An adults, and a childs. A druggies, and a straight-edgers.

The fact is, the disease couldn't care less who you are, what you do, or how you or society choose to identify yourself. It is a disease, and it can, and does, infect anyone.

First, AIDS was just a "gay disease."

Now it's a "poor disease."

What next?

A "Jew disease"?

So that makes their life worth less than yours?

Its not that their life is worth less than mine. Its just that I'm much more concerned with my own.

Hong Kong was a British colony until about 10 years ago. Also its not a part of mainland China.

then go to Shanghai, which is as modern as Tokyo, NYC, LA, Paris, London, etc.

So what, there's a homeless woman with AIDS and two children in the inner city. Other than possibly "funding" AIDS research, what business does the government have in intervening in that situation?

True, I have no soul.

government responsibility to ensure positive rights - including a minimum quality of life - for all citizens. that's what.
a basic necessity of life is healthcare, and it should be provided free at the point of consumption by the state imho

So what, there's a homeless woman with AIDS and two children in the inner city. Other than possibly "funding" AIDS research, what business does the government have in intervening in that situation?

True, I have no soul.


Because but for the grace of whatever you might consider graceful you might have grown up as one of her two children. Altruism aside I think it is in our best interest to make sure as few people we are surrounded by grow up without hope. It is in our best interest that as many people we might come in contact with do give a fuck about themselves and those around them.

then go to Shanghai, which is as modern as Tokyo, NYC, LA, Paris, London, etc.

Many nations have information and technological centers. That doesn't mean its a representative sample of the rest of the nation. Just as Shanghai is modern and wealthy, western China is comparable in resources and wealth to Sub-Saharan Africa in many ways.

government responsibility to ensure positive rights - including a minimum quality of life - for all citizens. that's what.
a basic necessity of life is healthcare, and it should be provided free at the point of consumption by the state imho

My veiw of government responsibility is somewhat different from yours.

Many nations have information and technological centers. That doesn't mean its a representative sample of the rest of the nation. Just as Shanghai is modern and wealthy, western China is comparable in resources and wealth to Sub-Saharan Africa in many ways.
my response was because you rejected the idea of Hong Kong being a modern, information age city.
China is industrializing, its not at information age status yet.
Well, you've now shot down Hong Kong on the basis of it not being mainland, and having been a colony recently.

You accept that Shanghai is a modern city.

Our point is that you can't just color all of China one way or the other. It is hugely varied.

So what, there's a homeless woman with AIDS and two children in the inner city. Other than possibly "funding" AIDS research, what business does the government have in intervening in that situation?

True, I have no soul.

AIDS ain't going away. Neither is cancer. People die. Life sucks. We should be spending that money on prolonging life in areas where life can actually be furthered and prolonged--like funding peacekeeping efforts in Darfur. Or providing better public education facilities.

Because but for the grace of whatever you might consider graceful you might have grown up as one of her two children. Altruism aside I think it is in our best interest to make sure as few people we are surrounded by grow up without hope. It is in our best interest that as many people we might come in contact with do give a fuck about themselves and those around them.

You mean its possible that my conciousness could have been in someone else's body with someone else's life? That changes everything. For me altruism has no purpose. I don't care about the personal lives of those have no immediate impact on my life. However that doesn't mean that I don't treat them with a certain degree of respect and politeness.

my response was because you rejected the idea of Hong Kong being a modern, information age city.

Well, you've now shot down Hong Kong on the basis of it not being mainland, and having been a colony recently.

You accept that Shanghai is a modern city.

Our point is that you can't just color all of China one way or the other. It is hugely varied.
Alright, you've made your point.

AIDS ain't going away. Neither is cancer. People die. Life sucks. We should be spending that money on prolonging life in areas where life can actually be furthered and prolonged--like funding peacekeeping efforts in Darfur. Or providing better public education facilities.

actually, if you read about the current cancer and AIDS research, you would find that several types of cancer have been reduced to 80% or better survival rates, and there are several potentially promising leads on vaccines or treatments to AIDS.

The AIDS of today is not the killer we knew back in the 80's and early 90's. It is now possible to live a somewhat normal, decently long life if you take your meds properly.

My veiw of government responsibility is somewhat different from yours.

evidently. we could go into a moralistic philisophical debate over who's right, but i'm far too tired and just can't be bothered :(

We're pretty close to a vaccine for nicotine addiction, why can't we come up with something that would at least stop the progression of AIDs more effectivelly than the current drugs, or possibly a vaccine. It's can't hurt!

The AIDS of today is not the killer we knew back in the 80's and early 90's. It is now possible to live a somewhat normal, decently long life if you take your meds properly.

You have to abstain for the rest of your remaining life. Or atleast not have sex with those who aren't infected.

We're pretty close to a vaccine for nicotine addiction, why can't we come up with something that would at least stop the progression of AIDs more effectivelly than the current drugs, or possibly a vaccine. It's can't hurt!

As I said before, I support AIDS research. And with every day we come closer to a vaccine.

You have to abstain for the rest of your remaining life. Or atleast not have sex with those who aren't infected.

I have a friend with AIDs and he tells me that he has to even have protected sex with someone else who is infected because they might have different strains and can get eachother sicker.

I have a friend with AIDs and he tells me that he has to even have protected sex with someone else who is infected because they might have different strains and can get eachother sicker.

:eek:

As I said before, I support AIDS research. And with every day we come closer to a vaccine.

Treatment, not a vaccine. HIV mutates far too quickly for a vaccine to be feasible.

We're pretty close to a vaccine for nicotine addiction, why can't we come up with something that would at least stop the progression of AIDs more effectivelly than the current drugs, or possibly a vaccine. It's can't hurt!
Because it isn't that easy. Nicotine addiction isn't a virus. AIDS is. It is also a virus that destroys the bodies natural immune system, hides within cells that are needed, and rapidly and constantly mutates. There are hopeful leads: a genetic mutation found in 10% of Caucasians leaves them immune to AIDS. But it takes huge ammounts of time and research to find these trends and figure out how to replicate them in the rest of the population
You have to abstain for the rest of your remaining life. Or atleast not have sex with those who aren't infected.
Actually, you don't. You have to use safe sex practices (which you should be doing anyway). Are they 100% safe? No. But then, few things are. As long as you are honest and upfront about it, and take the proper steps to prevent contamination, and the other party concents, there is no problem with having sex.

Treatment, not a vaccine. HIV mutates far too quickly for a vaccine to be feasible.

Not in the traditional sense of a vaccine, but there are certain proteins that affect a person's likely hood of acquiring the disease, manipulating these could lead to further prevention of the disease.

Actually, you don't. You have to use safe sex practices (which you should be doing anyway). Are they 100% safe? No. But then, few things are. As long as you are honest and upfront about it, and take the proper steps to prevent contamination, and the other party concents, there is no problem with having sex.

I love how this thread has become about AIDS.

I have a friend with AIDs and he tells me that he has to even have protected sex with someone else who is infected because they might have different strains and can get eachother sicker.

True...there is HIV-1 and HIV-2. Currently, HIV-1 is the most common around the world, and HIV-2 is still rare. It is increasing, however.

You mean its possible that my conciousness could have been in someone else's body with someone else's life? That changes everything. For me altruism has no purpose. I don't care about the personal lives of those have no immediate impact on my life. However that doesn't mean that I don't treat them with a certain degree of respect and politeness.

How do people who dont care about themselves or others treat you and those whom you care about when your paths cross? So far so good I presume?

For me altruism has no purpose. I don't care about the personal lives of those have no immediate impact on my life.

you ever heard of the butterfly/tornado theory? everyone affects everyone else whether directly or indirectly, the most selfish reason to be altruistic is because it might come back and help you later.

Just because there is a correlation between to figures does not mean that they are connected. The more likely reason was unions and minimum wage laws caused worker costs to rise, and seeing cheaper labor overseas the industrial giants outsourced. Not however because of welfare benefits and social security.

Actually, the way of 'dealing' with poverty before social welfare was the workhouse/sweatshop system (in Britain at least). When enough people came to their senses and realised the system was a) vastly inhumane and b) economically inefficient anyway, the system was changed to what we have to day.

BAM! Thank you studies into poverty in Britain throughout the 19th and 20th centuries :D I knew history was good for something. Besides a trip to China that is :D

Actually, the way of 'dealing' with poverty before social welfare was the workhouse/sweatshop system (in Britain at least). When enough people came to their senses and realised the system was a) vastly inhumane and b) economically inefficient anyway, the system was changed to what we have to day.

BAM! Thank you studies into poverty in Britain throughout the 19th and 20th centuries :D I knew history was good for something. Besides a trip to China that is :D

Oh, I see. I don't really know much about Britain's history during the Industrial age.

you ever heard of the butterfly/tornado theory? everyone affects everyone else whether directly or indirectly, the most selfish reason to be altruistic is because it might come back and help you later.

I believe its the butterfly effect and yes I have. There's really no such thing as selfless altruism, as it is impossible for anyone to help another without a sense of personal gain.