NationStates Jolt Archive

We've all heard about the great evils of various societies. How the growing Muslim population in Europe will destroy its culture and turn it into an Islamic theocracy. How the Mexicans will continue to immigrate illegally until all our jobs are lost and the United States of America turns into the Estados Unidos de America.

Or, on a simpler level in an urban environment, how poor blacks are to be feared because they'll gang up on you if you're not black. How the Hispanic gangs will rape our daughters and beat up our sons. And how about that gay agenda, eh? Ready to become gay today?

Fact is, we create our own evils. Society repeats a statement endlessly to itself, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We act as if most people in poverty should be racial minorities, and surprise surprise, we all do things unconsciously to keep it that way.

A large part of our problem is our inability to be tolorant. My mom is one of the most tolorant people I know, but even she was warning me about the "dangers" of wandering into a black neighborhood all by myself.

We act as if these things should be true, and thus we make them true on our own. We're not tolorant enough as a society. We still look at each other and treat each other differently for so many little unimportant differences, like our religion, or our ethnicity, or our sexual orientation. We worry about how Joe Bob and Bob Joe's marriage will affect our children, or how a few Muslims moving in will turn us all Islamic. We're ridiculously afraid of anything that isn't entirely familiar to our own experiences, and that, my friends, is what we've got to stop doing. The more we act afraid, the more we create that which we are afraid of.

*clap clap clap*

Really? Go into a poor, black neighborhood at night and see how long you last. Those assumptions not true because we think they are true; they're true because they're true. This isn't the Matrix, Neo: thinking something does not make it valid. Blacks do, in fact, commit more crime that whites. That's a fact. Thus, it is rational to avoid blacks more than you avoid whites. You should be tolerant with people, but you shouldn't let that get in the way of logic. Society is not the problem -- we are egalitarian to an astonishing degree. If blacks and other minorities commit more crime, it's their own fault. They don't decide to commit crime because they know we think they commit crime. That's, quite frankly, moronic.

Really? Go into a poor, black neighborhood at night and see how long you last. Those assumptions not true because we think they are true; they're true because they're true. This isn't the Matrix, Neo: thinking something does not make it valid. Blacks do, in fact, commit more crime that whites. That's a fact. Thus, it is rational to avoid blacks more than you avoid whites. You should be tolerant with people, but you shouldn't let that get in the way of logic. Society is not the problem -- we are egalitarian to an astonishing degree. If blacks and other minorities commit more crime, it's their own fault. They don't decide to commit crime because they know we think they commit crime. That's, quite frankly, moronic.

Oh, so now he's a RACIST? I thought he was just a neocon. Now I see he's racist!

Really? Go into a poor, black neighborhood at night and see how long you last. Those assumptions not true because we think they are true; they're true because they're true. This isn't the Matrix, Neo: thinking something does not make it valid. Blacks do, in fact, commit more crime that whites. That's a fact. Thus, it is rational to avoid blacks more than you avoid whites. You should be tolerant with people, but you shouldn't let that get in the way of logic. Society is not the problem -- we are egalitarian to an astonishing degree. If blacks and other minorities commit more crime, it's their own fault. They don't decide to commit crime because they know we think they commit crime. That's, quite frankly, moronic.

Long story made short: I ran away from home when I was younger about 16 yrs old anyways, I hitchhiked up to Atlanta, Georgia from Tampa area in Florida. By the time I got off in Georgia it was about 1 or 2 am. As I was walking the streets, a car pulls up to me. It's filled with black people, being the idiot I can be sometimes, I got in. As they're driving, drinking they're Old English they wound up showing me a gun....wow.....wasn't sure what to say after that. Anyways, we got to their apartment complex offered to smoke pot with me, brought me a bologna sandwich and something to drink, and let me sleep in their car until day break. Morning comes they drive me to the Truck stop where I continue my venture to somewheres.

So, no not all black people mind helping out a white guy. Oh, also, they did mention to me how I was lucky because not all blacks would have let me live.

Really? Go into a poor, black neighborhood at night and see how long you last. Those assumptions not true because we think they are true; they're true because they're true. This isn't the Matrix, Neo: thinking something does not make it valid. Blacks do, in fact, commit more crime that whites. That's a fact. Thus, it is rational to avoid blacks more than you avoid whites. You should be tolerant with people, but you shouldn't let that get in the way of logic. Society is not the problem -- we are egalitarian to an astonishing degree. If blacks and other minorities commit more crime, it's their own fault. They don't decide to commit crime because they know we think they commit crime. That's, quite frankly, moronic.
Look, I'm not denying that these problems exist right now. What I'm arguing is that they will persist if we don't change our attitudes. Sure, they won't change immediately, but they WILL CHANGE. People create--unconsciously--the kind of situation that propagates these situations. We don't realize just how important the psychological effect of everything we do is on our lives and the lives of others. Do you see what I mean now?

Blacks do, in fact, commit more crime that whites. That's a fact.

That's not a fact, that's a statistic.

That's not a fact, that's a statistic.

That doesn't stop people from using them like facts all the time.

Really? Go into a poor, black neighborhood at night and see how long you last. Those assumptions not true because we think they are true; they're true because they're true. This isn't the Matrix, Neo: thinking something does not make it valid. Blacks do, in fact, commit more crime that whites. That's a fact. Thus, it is rational to avoid blacks more than you avoid whites. You should be tolerant with people, but you shouldn't let that get in the way of logic. Society is not the problem -- we are egalitarian to an astonishing degree. If blacks and other minorities commit more crime, it's their own fault. They don't decide to commit crime because they know we think they commit crime. That's, quite frankly, moronic.

But it's we as a society that makes them true. Black people are not an inherently violent criminal race. Whites that live in poverty are just as violent as blacks. Their history made it nearly impossible for them to rise above their circumstances on a large scale.

People point to Asian immigrants as a success story and say that blacks could have done the same and they had the advantage of starting here. This is simplistic and stupid. The means by which Asian peoples found their way here gave them the ability to go where opportunities abound, and to not bother showing up where there wasn't any. Blacks did not have that advantage. They were stuck where they were, and had to go wherever they could to do the best that they could. If you're going to compare Blacks to Asians, consider the billion plus living in squalor first. And if you think they aren't violent, look at their governments.

But it's we as a society that makes them true. Black people are not an inherently violent criminal race. Whites that live in poverty are just as violent as blacks. Their history made it nearly impossible for them to rise above their circumstances on a large scale.

People point to Asian immigrants as a success story and say that blacks could have done the same and they had the advantage of starting here. This is simplistic and stupid. The means by which Asian peoples found their way here gave them the ability to go where opportunities abound, and to not bother showing up where there wasn't any. Blacks did not have that advantage. They were stuck where they were, and had to go wherever they could to do the best that they could. If you're going to compare Blacks to Asians, consider the billion plus living in squalor first. And if you think they aren't violent, look at their governments.
Exactly. And we as a society seem to be unable to look two feet in front of our face and realize these kinds of things. We absorb these stereotypes from our parents, play them in the media all the time, pass them on to our children, who pass them on to their children, and their children, and so on and so forth. People just don't get it. We create our own evils each and every day. We, in essence, are our own worst enemy. And the key to defeating that enemy is realizing what we are doing and stopping it.

"The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad."

Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science

Yeah, I used to live near East St. Louis...pretty famous for not being a nice place. It's 97.7 black so one can say its a black neighborhood. You will get warnings, and they are usually based on reality (and often experience.)

"Make sure your doors are locked!" That is because there is a good chance you will have an attempted carjacking at a red light. "Yeah, sure" you think. But wait, I have had an attempted carjacking, my grandmother, mother, two aunts and a friend have all experienced them too. I might note, every single one was a seperate incident. This is not even from having to drive around in it every day, but just the once in a blue moon where you have to travel through it. For a while back in the 90s, it had the highest murder rate in the country.

Clearly though, it must all be in our heads.

Yeah, I used to live near East St. Louis...pretty famous for not being a nice place. It's 97.7 black so one can say its a black neighborhood. You will get warnings, and they are usually based on reality (and often experience.)

"Make sure your doors are locked!" That is because there is a good chance you will have an attempted carjacking at a red light. "Yeah, sure" you think. But wait, I have had an attempted carjacking, my grandmother, mother, two aunts and a friend have all experienced them too. I might note, every single one was a seperate incident. This is not even from having to drive around in it every day, but just the once in a blue moon where you have to travel through it. For a while back in the 90s, it had the highest murder rate in the country.

Clearly though, it must all be in our heads.
...you're not getting it, are you? Why is it that whenever people respond to what I have to say, they always act as if I am denying the problems that do exist. I most certainly am NOT.

What I'm saying is that these problems will persist if we keep expecting them too! We don't bother to try and change them in any way, shape, or form, and thusly we keep creating it! We created it in the first place and will continue to propagate it until we change our attitudes. Once again, change will not be immediate. It will take quite a while. But it WILL happen if you people just DO IT.

Your statement "Society Creates Its Own Evils" should probably be worded as a question so that it is not a blanket ostensible statment. But lets examine the statement anyway.

First we must ask, Does society create its own evils. What does the term "create" mean and what are these "evils".

Does society create its own evils?

Well lets examine create. To create according to Websters dictionary create means:
To cause to come into existance, to form out of nothing.
To make something new, to originate.

For this argument I think the meaning of create the author is talking about it to cause to come into existance.

Then another question begs to be asked, what is existance. My desk exists because I can touch it, but that cannot be the only definition of existance. My idea exist, they exist in my mind. My idea of a desk exists in my mind. The question then is, what is more real in its existance my actual desk or the idea of a desk that I have in my head.

A similar thing can be said about evil. Is evil existing because we have an idea of what an evil is in our head or does it exist for some other reason. Is there an action that is inherently evil or do all evil actions share qualities with the idea of evil that is in our head.

In the sense that evil actions are manifestations of the idea of evil that we have in our head, then yes society does create its own evils. If we are to accept that, then we should also accept that society creates its own desks, its own love, happyness and every other feeling, object or idea that we hold. I do not think though that this is the answer the questioner was looking for.

So then does society create its own evils. In the sense that i meantioned above yes it does. In the sense that the tertery (sp?) thoughts influence our perceptions of evil and even how we see it. This leads me to believe that your notion of evil is a subjective notion. An idea that is effected by the goingson around you. In this sense evil has to create by society just as every subjective idea is. A subjective evil is changing and is not the same for all. Meaning that what is evil for one is not evil for the other and therefore what is evil is also not evil.

That is no way to define anything. The objective form of evil is not created by anyone and is no changing in its meaning or manifestion. I am not yet at the point where I understand the objective idea behind all evil.

If you do know, or if anyone does, could they please share it.

Really? Go into a poor, black neighborhood at night and see how long you last. Those assumptions not true because we think they are true; they're true because they're true. This isn't the Matrix, Neo: thinking something does not make it valid. Blacks do, in fact, commit more crime that whites. That's a fact. Thus, it is rational to avoid blacks more than you avoid whites. You should be tolerant with people, but you shouldn't let that get in the way of logic. Society is not the problem -- we are egalitarian to an astonishing degree. If blacks and other minorities commit more crime, it's their own fault. They don't decide to commit crime because they know we think they commit crime. That's, quite frankly, moronic.
I have frequently gone into poor black neighbors and have gotten smiles and waves... who was it who said he's now a "racist neocon?" Give him/her a pat on the back.

Your statement "Society Creates Its Own Evils" should probably be worded as a question so that it is not a blanket ostensible statment. But lets examine the statement anyway.

First we must ask, Does society create its own evils. What does the term "create" mean and what are these "evils".

Does society create its own evils?

Well lets examine create. To create according to Websters dictionary create means:
To cause to come into existance, to form out of nothing.
To make something new, to originate.

For this argument I think the meaning of create the author is talking about it to cause to come into existance.

Then another question begs to be asked, what is existance. My desk exists because I can touch it, but that cannot be the only definition of existance. My idea exist, they exist in my mind. My idea of a desk exists in my mind. The question then is, what is more real in its existance my actual desk or the idea of a desk that I have in my head.

A similar thing can be said about evil. Is evil existing because we have an idea of what an evil is in our head or does it exist for some other reason. Is there an action that is inherently evil or do all evil actions share qualities with the idea of evil that is in our head.

In the sense that evil actions are manifestations of the idea of evil that we have in our head, then yes society does create its own evils. If we are to accept that, then we should also accept that society creates its own desks, its own love, happyness and every other feeling, object or idea that we hold. I do not think though that this is the answer the questioner was looking for.

So then does society create its own evils. In the sense that i meantioned above yes it does. In the sense that the tertery (sp?) thoughts influence our perceptions of evil and even how we see it. This leads me to believe that your notion of evil is a subjective notion. An idea that is effected by the goingson around you. In this sense evil has to create by society just as every subjective idea is. A subjective evil is changing and is not the same for all. Meaning that what is evil for one is not evil for the other and therefore what is evil is also not evil.

That is no way to define anything. The objective form of evil is not created by anyone and is no changing in its meaning or manifestion. I am not yet at the point where I understand the objective idea behind all evil.

If you do know, or if anyone does, could they please share it.
Well, basically, when I'm talking about evil, I'm talking about all the various crimes and whatnot that people percieve as evil.

While I agree in the basic sense that Society creates its own evils (i.e., the societal evils... who else would?), I don't agree with the 'I think it's bad, therefore it becomes bad' line of thinking.

I mean, if you tell your young children not to talk to strangers, will you magically transform all strangers into child molestors? Of course not.

Well, basically, when I'm talking about evil, I'm talking about all the various crimes and whatnot that people percieve as evil.

I see. So a baker in a poor neighborhood is robbed by a woman, she steals a loaf of bread. The woman steals the bread to feed her kids.

The bakers see it that he got robbed, the woman is a theif. The woman sees it as providing food to keep her children from starving. Feeding children is considered by many a noble cause.

As you see in this sense on thing is percieved as evil by the baker and the same thing is percieved as noble. In this case the same act is both evil and not evil.

Is there some quality about the evil that you are talking about that makes it evil. Im just not understanding what you mean.

While I agree in the basic sense that Society creates its own evils (i.e., the societal evils... who else would?), I don't agree with the 'I think it's bad, therefore it becomes bad' line of thinking.

I mean, if you tell your young children not to talk to strangers, will you magically transform all strangers into child molestors? Of course not.

I wasn't saying that either. I'm talking about things like the fact that most people in poverty right now are racial minorities. And it hasn't changed because we in society believe--unconsciously--that that's how thing are. Therefore, this unconscious impulse affects numerous decisions everyone makes that results in the situation remaining unchanged. It's all unconscious and psychological, really, as opposed to intentional. I've done my share of unintentional contribution to the evils of society myself, as unfortunate as that is.

We've all heard about the great evils of various societies. How the growing Muslim population in Europe will destroy its culture and turn it into an Islamic theocracy. How the Mexicans will continue to immigrate illegally until all our jobs are lost and the United States of America turns into the Estados Unidos de America.

Or, on a simpler level in an urban environment, how poor blacks are to be feared because they'll gang up on you if you're not black. How the Hispanic gangs will rape our daughters and beat up our sons. And how about that gay agenda, eh? Ready to become gay today?

Fact is, we create our own evils. Society repeats a statement endlessly to itself, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We act as if most people in poverty should be racial minorities, and surprise surprise, we all do things unconsciously to keep it that way.

A large part of our problem is our inability to be tolorant. My mom is one of the most tolorant people I know, but even she was warning me about the "dangers" of wandering into a black neighborhood all by myself.

We act as if these things should be true, and thus we make them true on our own. We're not tolorant enough as a society. We still look at each other and treat each other differently for so many little unimportant differences, like our religion, or our ethnicity, or our sexual orientation. We worry about how Joe Bob and Bob Joe's marriage will affect our children, or how a few Muslims moving in will turn us all Islamic. We're ridiculously afraid of anything that isn't entirely familiar to our own experiences, and that, my friends, is what we've got to stop doing. The more we act afraid, the more we create that which we are afraid of.


Perhaps you are right, even quantum particles dont know what they are before we observe them. But you cant control your sub-consciousness, can you?

Its an on-going power struggle between the elite and the underlings, and I think the elite are trying to keep the underlings where they are.

Perhaps you are right, even quantum particles dont know what they are before we observe them. But you cant control your sub-consciousness, can you?
Actually, you can, with a lot of conscious effort. That's what therapy does for you, you know. Same kind of thing, really.

...and the first person who says I'm saying everyone needs therapy is going to be smacked.

Actually, you can, with a lot of conscious effort. That's what therapy does for you, you know. Same kind of thing, really.

...and the first person who says I'm saying everyone needs therapy is going to be smacked.

It does? I've never been to therapy. Can you give me one example when it changed a deep routed sub conscious thinking?

I wasn't saying that either. I'm talking about things like the fact that most people in poverty right now are racial minorities. And it hasn't changed because we in society believe--unconsciously--that that's how thing are. Therefore, this unconscious impulse affects numerous decisions everyone makes that results in the situation remaining unchanged. It's all unconscious and psychological, really, as opposed to intentional. I've done my share of unintentional contribution to the evils of society myself, as unfortunate as that is.

There are several factors for that, the largest probably being economic. It's always hard to remove yourself from poverty, and public perception of a racial group being unqualified or 'too dangerous' for a position only exacerbates the problem. Of course, society can help to take positive steps to correct these problems; Affirmative Action. Of course, many disagree with the idea, yet I personally believe that you can help break the cylce of minorities staying on 'the bottom' of the socio-economic ladder.

Of course, blaming it all on 'perception' isn't entirely fair either. It may just be that the jobs that pay exceptionally well are more often going to better educated and more affluent people, traditionally the 'dominant' ethnic group. If someone from a poor neighbourhood can't afford an education that will get them to a higher 'rung of the ladder', they may be trapped in a poor neighbourhood, inherent with all the problems that go with it (and it's a function of poverty, not race.)

Blacks do, in fact, commit more crime that whites. That's a fact.

Wrong.

http://racismaintover.blogspot.com/2006/05/black-crime-mythology-or-reality.html

"According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, among youths aged 12 to 17, the rate of current illicit drug use was 11.1 % among whites, and 9.3% among African Americans.[4] In a previous year, the same survey found that white youth aged 12 to17 are more than a third more likely to have sold drugs than African American youth.[5] The Monitoring the Future Survey of high school seniors shows that white students annually use cocaine at 4.6 times the rate of African Americans students, use crack cocaine at 1.5 times the rate of African Americans students, and use heroin at the same rate of African Americans students, and that white youth report annual use of marijuana at a rate 46% higher than African American youth.[6] However African American youth are arrested for drug offenses at about twice the rate (African American 314 per 100,000, white 175 per 100,000) times that of whites..."

"According to the Center on Disease Control’s annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, in 2001 whites and African Americans reported similar rates of carrying a weapon (whites 17.9%, African Americans 15.2%), and similar rates of carrying a gun (whites 5.5%, and African Americans, 6.5%).[9] African American youth represent 32% of all weapons arrests, and were arrested for weapons offenses at a rate twice that of whites (69 per 100,000, versus 30 per 100,000)."

"According to the Center on Disease Control’s annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, African Americans report being in a physical fight at a similar rate (36.5%, versus 32.5% for whites), but were arrested for aggravated assault at a rate nearly three times that of whites (137 per 100,000, versus 48 per 100,000)."

And that's just for starters. I'll see what else I can find for you since you so obviously need to be educated.

It does? I've never been to therapy. Can you give me one example when it changed a deep routed sub conscious thinking?

I used to be an arrogant egotistical jackass who thought he was the smartest person on the planet and everyone hated him at school because they were jealous. Now I most assuredly am not like that. I was hated because I acted like a jackass and deserved it the whole way through. I was a horrible person then, and now I strive to do my best not to be.


There are several factors for that, the largest probably being economic. It's always hard to remove yourself from poverty, and public perception of a racial group being unqualified or 'too dangerous' for a position only exacerbates the problem. Of course, society can help to take positive steps to correct these problems; Affirmative Action. Of course, many disagree with the idea, yet I personally believe that you can help break the cylce of minorities staying on 'the bottom' of the socio-economic ladder.

Of course, blaming it all on 'perception' isn't entirely fair either. It may just be that the jobs that pay exceptionally well are more often going to better educated and more affluent people, traditionally the 'dominant' ethnic group. If someone from a poor neighbourhood can't afford an education that will get them to a higher 'rung of the ladder', they may be trapped in a poor neighbourhood, inherent with all the problems that go with it (and it's a function of poverty, not race.)
Of course it's a function of poverty. That's actually part of my whole overall point. People are often perceiving racial minorities as violent and dangerous precisely because most of the make up the impoverished people in our country, and people in that situation tend to act in a violent manner. My point is that specifically because of that perception, we're not giving them the chance to escape their situation, thus compounding the problem and make it continue to exist. Again, it's unconscious, but it's there.

I have frequently gone into poor black neighbors and have gotten smiles and waves...

Waves? Yeah, right.:rolleyes:

Waves? Yeah, right.:rolleyes:

Why not? I have an old black guy who waves at me every time I walk by him.

But I live in Canada. Everyone waves. Or at least apologizes a lot.






Sorry...

Waves? Yeah, right.:rolleyes:
I've gotten waves, nods, and all sorts of acknowledgements from everyone I've passed by while walking. Everywhere.

Here's another site for MTAE.

http://www.peace.ca/truthaboutblackcrime.htm


"In 1997, the American Bar Association observed that quite often public
defenders, who are most likely to be assigned to poor and largely minority
defendants, are inexperienced, underpaid, overworked, and largely indifferent
to their client's plight. (Philadelphia Bar Association Calls for Moratorium
on Death, A-Infos News Service, 12/19/97)
Even though it is illegal, throughout the nation, there are incidents of
local officials influencing jury selection to include mostly white males.
This is done mainly because local police and law officials are afraid that
randomly selected jurors will be more liberal and less likely to convict
defendants. (Prosecutors Object to New Method of Jury Selection, St.
Petersburg Times, 12/28/98 and The Race of Decision Makers, RSTL Study)
A 1990 study by The U.S. General Accounting Office, indicated that racial
bias has influenced prosecutors' decisions to charge a defendant with a
capital offense and/or to proceed to trial rather than plea bargain. (U.S.
General Accounting Office Report, Death Penalty Sentencing, 1990)

What do all of these findings suggest? For starters, we cannot conclude how
many African Americans or black males are actually guilty of committing
crimes. We can only obtain data on the number of black males who are arrested for and convicted of a crime."

But that's all I'm going to look for right now. Researching "black crime" brings up a mountian of "white power" sites. And I don't have the stomach to dig trough all that vile crap tonight. But maybe someone else is up to it.

Here's another site for MTAE.

http://www.peace.ca/truthaboutblackcrime.htm


"In 1997, the American Bar Association observed that quite often public
defenders, who are most likely to be assigned to poor and largely minority
defendants, are inexperienced, underpaid, overworked, and largely indifferent
to their client's plight. (Philadelphia Bar Association Calls for Moratorium
on Death, A-Infos News Service, 12/19/97)
Even though it is illegal, throughout the nation, there are incidents of
local officials influencing jury selection to include mostly white males.
This is done mainly because local police and law officials are afraid that
randomly selected jurors will be more liberal and less likely to convict
defendants. (Prosecutors Object to New Method of Jury Selection, St.
Petersburg Times, 12/28/98 and The Race of Decision Makers, RSTL Study)
A 1990 study by The U.S. General Accounting Office, indicated that racial
bias has influenced prosecutors' decisions to charge a defendant with a
capital offense and/or to proceed to trial rather than plea bargain. (U.S.
General Accounting Office Report, Death Penalty Sentencing, 1990)

What do all of these findings suggest? For starters, we cannot conclude how
many African Americans or black males are actually guilty of committing
crimes. We can only obtain data on the number of black males who are arrested for and convicted of a crime."

But that's all I'm going to look for right now. Researching "black crime" brings up a mountian of "white power" sites. And I don't have the stomach to dig trough all that vile crap tonight. But maybe someone else is up to it.
This is actually much more well known than people realize. Problem is, no one acknowledges it.

Yeah, I used to live near East St. Louis...pretty famous for not being a nice place. It's 97.7 black so one can say its a black neighborhood. You will get warnings, and they are usually based on reality (and often experience.)

"Make sure your doors are locked!" That is because there is a good chance you will have an attempted carjacking at a red light. "Yeah, sure" you think. But wait, I have had an attempted carjacking, my grandmother, mother, two aunts and a friend have all experienced them too. I might note, every single one was a seperate incident. This is not even from having to drive around in it every day, but just the once in a blue moon where you have to travel through it. For a while back in the 90s, it had the highest murder rate in the country.

Clearly though, it must all be in our heads.

I live about 45 miles east of East St Louis, and I have never feared anything when stopping there. But if you go in there with this fear of being mugged or something, it creates a hostile and negative enviroment and bad things will tend to happen. I can go there and even carry on a conversation with random people, and they treat me as they would treat their friends or whatever. Its all about how you go through with it.

I live about 45 miles east of East St Louis, and I have never feared anything when stopping there. But if you go in there with this fear of being mugged or something, it creates a hostile and negative enviroment and bad things will tend to happen. I can go there and even carry on a conversation with random people, and they treat me as they would treat their friends or whatever. Its all about how you go through with it.

Aye. I suspect it has a lot to do with our instinctive nature. Like with wild animals, we can tell when someone is afraid and fearful, and will often act more hostile towards them.

I live about 45 miles east of East St Louis, and I have never feared anything when stopping there. But if you go in there with this fear of being mugged or something, it creates a hostile and negative enviroment and bad things will tend to happen. I can go there and even carry on a conversation with random people, and they treat me as they would treat their friends or whatever. Its all about how you go through with it.

my roomate went there without the fear of being mugged. some dude asked him for a light, when he reached for his lighter, gun in his face.

this whole idea you can wish crime away is absurd. its liberal folly taken to an absurd level.

my roomate went there without the fear of being mugged. some dude asked him for a light, when he reached for his lighter, gun in his face.

this whole idea you can wish crime away is absurd. its liberal folly taken to an absurd level.
...

:headbang:

I am not talking about wishing away crime or doing away with the justice system or any other complete peacenik stupidity. I'm talking about changing how society thinks, which WILL HELP IN MANY CASES. IT WILL NOT SOLVE EVERY PROBLEM NOR IS IT INTENDED TO.

One of those problems is the fact that no one wants to listen! UGH.

my roomate went there without the fear of being mugged. some dude asked him for a light, when he reached for his lighter, gun in his face.

this whole idea you can wish crime away is absurd. its liberal folly taken to an absurd level.

Right, because I don't go through e. St louis like every other weekend. I know that area. Trust me. Its not as bad as every one thinks it. Sure, crime happens there, but thats a norm for any urban area, but like i said, its not as bad as what everyone makes it out to be.

...

:headbang:

I am not talking about wishing away crime or doing away with the justice system or any other complete peacenik stupidity. I'm talking about changing how society thinks, which WILL HELP IN MANY CASES. IT WILL NOT SOLVE EVERY PROBLEM NOR IS IT INTENDED TO.

One of those problems is the fact that no one wants to listen! UGH.

I'm sorry what were you saying?:p

I used to be an arrogant egotistical jackass who thought he was the smartest person on the planet and everyone hated him at school because they were jealous. Now I most assuredly am not like that. I was hated because I acted like a jackass and deserved it the whole way through. I was a horrible person then, and now I strive to do my best not to be.


Actually I'd prefered a less anectodal and a more scientific study. Not to mention you cant compare changing decades, maybe hundreds of years of sub conscious thinking to changing your school-time feelings.

Really? Go into a poor, black neighborhood at night and see how long you last. Those assumptions not true because we think they are true; they're true because they're true. This isn't the Matrix, Neo: thinking something does not make it valid. Blacks do, in fact, commit more crime that whites. That's a fact. Thus, it is rational to avoid blacks more than you avoid whites. You should be tolerant with people, but you shouldn't let that get in the way of logic. Society is not the problem -- we are egalitarian to an astonishing degree. If blacks and other minorities commit more crime, it's their own fault. They don't decide to commit crime because they know we think they commit crime. That's, quite frankly, moronic.


I think I understand what you are getting at. You are saying people don't do those things because we think they do, they do them for other reasons that have nothing to do with what some white guy thinks about them. I agree with you and don't think you are being racist at all.

Becaue it 2:30 am here, and I'm getting to lazy to read the entire thing, has anyone brought up the relation between poverty and crime? That seems to be the real problem. It just so happens to affect minorities most, often for reasons beyond their control.

Are Whites the only people with racist views of other races/nations/whatever? Some people seem to think so.

Blacks do, in fact, commit more crime that whites. That's a fact.

Partly true.

Poor people commit more crimes like mugging and various street crime than people who are not poor. In the US Black people are more likely to be poor than whites, for various historical and social reasons. Therefore there is a correleration between Black and crime - through a poverty link.

That said - I think the OP has his/her head in the clouds if they think any dangers people percieve are purely created in their heads and they are in fact safe. It is a very nice but very naive viewpoint to hold that all these dangers are imagined and that all these people we fear are freared for irrational reasons and rthat everyone is really a nice person.

And incidently - Racism works ALL ways. Anyone can be a racist. Including poor black people. Growing up in a very ethnically diverse area I have been shouted at, spat at, threatened and had people try to attack me - because they did not like the look of a white guy walking down the street holding an Indian (As in the country) girls hand. This came from white people and from indian people, and other various asian groups.

We've all heard about the great evils of various societies. How the growing Muslim population in Europe will destroy its culture and turn it into an Islamic theocracy. How the Mexicans will continue to immigrate illegally until all our jobs are lost and the United States of America turns into the Estados Unidos de America.

Or, on a simpler level in an urban environment, how poor blacks are to be feared because they'll gang up on you if you're not black. How the Hispanic gangs will rape our daughters and beat up our sons. And how about that gay agenda, eh? Ready to become gay today?

Fact is, we create our own evils. Society repeats a statement endlessly to itself, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We act as if most people in poverty should be racial minorities, and surprise surprise, we all do things unconsciously to keep it that way.

A large part of our problem is our inability to be tolorant. My mom is one of the most tolorant people I know, but even she was warning me about the "dangers" of wandering into a black neighborhood all by myself.

We act as if these things should be true, and thus we make them true on our own. We're not tolorant enough as a society. We still look at each other and treat each other differently for so many little unimportant differences, like our religion, or our ethnicity, or our sexual orientation. We worry about how Joe Bob and Bob Joe's marriage will affect our children, or how a few Muslims moving in will turn us all Islamic. We're ridiculously afraid of anything that isn't entirely familiar to our own experiences, and that, my friends, is what we've got to stop doing. The more we act afraid, the more we create that which we are afraid of.

Is it really the case though that these toughts are prevalent through out the western world, or is it case of media say monkey do?

I've gotten waves, nods, and all sorts of acknowledgements from everyone I've passed by while walking. Everywhere.
You must be attractive then. Good for you.

You must be attractive then. Good for you.

What does attractiveness have to do with anything? Nothing. Its about how you treat people, and how they will treat you back. Its reciprocated.

Blacks do, in fact, commit more crime that whites. That's a fact. Thus, it is rational to avoid blacks more than you avoid whites. You should be tolerant with people, but you shouldn't let that get in the way of logic. Society is not the problem -- we are egalitarian to an astonishing degree. If blacks and other minorities commit more crime, it's their own fault. They don't decide to commit crime because they know we think they commit crime. That's, quite frankly, moronic.

The poor commit more crimes than the well off. Minorities are more likely to be poor.