NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm going to refrain from commenting on this article because many people obviously think that I'm trollish for my conservative views. But it is an interesting and very disturbing read.

Cals College in IJsselstein has prohibited two of it's students to have Dutch flags on their bags.

The 16 year old boy and his friend where told by the director of their school that they "urgently should consider" to remove the Dutch flags from their bags, it could provoke other students, mainly Moroccan students. The two considered the urgent request of the school as a prohibition.

But now biggest Dutch newspaper the Telegraaf made the story public and many Dutch are angry. Several parents of other students on the school have contacted the newspaper and say they are not surprised about what the school did, they think the school is afraid. One of the parents of the two boys thinks the same. "My son had trouble with some of these boys, but now he thinks the school blames him".

But the management of the school denies to have acted out of fear. They say they have merely acted with the security of the students in mind. They also deny the prohibition. "We wanted to start the dialog to make clear that we did not think the flag's where a good idea. That's all, he could decide him self" director Rooijen said.

Parliamentary members reacted surprised. Socialist (PvdA) and conservative Geert Wilders (independent) are going to ask the minister (CDA) questions. Wilders: "The use of out flag can not be prohibited". But the two government parties do not think so, they argue it is a matter between the school and the students.

As a result the school was on the evening news and interviews where taken in front of the school. The school has now send a letter to all the parents. In the letter they write that they try to prevent problems between students and that they do not prohibit the flag unless it is meant to hurt others peoples feelings. They say that they are proud on the students and teachers who together work on a good atmosphere and safe environment.

In a radio interview, one of the boys was asked if he was a racist. He denied and told the reporter that his mother was black. When he was asked about the incident that lead to the prohibition he explained that he had some verbal exchange with a Moroccan boy during competition swimming. As a result a group Moroccan then threatened him on school. At that moment the boy went to the school director.

When will Europe wake up and see what is happening?

How the hell is this "worrying"?

Oh no! Patriotism isn't enforced!

Aiee!

A newspaper from 2023 fell through an eddy the time space continuum:

Apparently Matthew Broderick is now the American President, four countries are in the Major Leagues, and Holland has officially added the Crescent Moon to the flag and banned Christianity, Judiasm and Atheism.

How the hell is this "worrying"?

Oh no! Patriotism isn't enforced!

Aiee!

Someone may find your post offensive. Please remove it.

How the hell is this "worrying"?

Europe is in danger of becoming an Islamic theocracy if it continues down this path. Not only is patriotism not enforced, but the students were told to consider removing Dutch flags from their backpacks because it could offend some Muslims. What is happening is nothing short of an Islamic invasion of Europe -- immigrants are pouring in and subjecting the country to their own fancies and prejudices. Europe must resist.

Europe is in danger of becoming an Islamic theocracy if it continues down this path. Not only is patriotism not enforced, but the students were told to consider removing Dutch flags from their backpacks because it could offend some Muslims. What is happening is nothing short of an Islamic invasion of Europe -- immigrants are pouring in and subjecting the country to their own fancies and prejudices. Europe must resist.

Replace Dutch with German and Muslim with Jewish and you sound like a nazi fom the 1930s

DON'T FEED THE TROLL!!!

The 16 year old boy and his friend where told by the director of their school that they "urgently should consider" to remove the Dutch flags from their bags, it could provoke other students, mainly Moroccan students. The two considered the urgent request of the school as a prohibition.

I bolded the important bits. The guys were asked not forced, to remove their flags. A bit too PC, not not really rant-worthy.

A newspaper from 2023 fell through an eddy the time space continuum:

Apparently Matthew Broderick is now the American President, four countries are in the Major Leagues, and Holland has officially added the Crescent Moon to the flag and banned Christianity, Judiasm and Atheism.

And we all woke up.;)

The article quoted in the OP was posted on February 1st, 2005. Nothing more up to date?

I will agree that prohibiting your own flag is ... :rolleyes: ... what's the Dutch word for "stupid"?

Europe is in danger of becoming an Islamic theocracy if it continues down this path. Not only is patriotism not enforced, but the students were told to consider removing Dutch flags from their backpacks because it could offend some Muslims. What is happening is nothing short of an Islamic invasion of Europe -- immigrants are pouring in and subjecting the country to their own fancies and prejudices. Europe must resist.

No, "the Muslims" did not force these flags to be removed. The school did. There is a subtle difference.

And we all woke up.;)

Hey! Mexico & the Domenican Republic *could* join America & Canada in the Majors! :D

The article quoted in the OP was posted on February 1st, 2005. Nothing more up to date?

I will agree that prohibiting your own flag is ... :rolleyes: ... what's the Dutch word for "stupid"?

dom

Someone may find your post offensive. Please remove it.
I'm not showing any level of nationalism in my posts, though.

If someone went into York College and it had a lot of immigrants there (note : it doesn't) with an English flag displayed on their backpack, I'd have to question their motives, no?

Hey! Mexico & the Domenican Republic *could* join America & Canada in the Majors! :D

Sure, and we could schedule the World Series over Christmas. :p

Hey! Mexico & the Domenican Republic *could* join America & Canada in the Majors! :D

Bah-doom tish!

Sure, and we could schedule the World Series over Christmas. :p

But Christmas will be illegal!

Europe is in danger of becoming an Islamic theocracy if it continues down this path. Not only is patriotism not enforced, but the students were told to consider removing Dutch flags from their backpacks because it could offend some Muslims. What is happening is nothing short of an Islamic invasion of Europe -- immigrants are pouring in and subjecting the country to their own fancies and prejudices. Europe must resist.
You are stupendously fucking stupid. And I will stand by that, because it's not character assassination, it's just the truth.

The article quoted in the OP was posted on February 1st, 2005. Nothing more up to date?

I will agree that prohibiting your own flag is ... :rolleyes: ... what's the Dutch word for "stupid"?

Um... "Shell" ?

http://www.off-grid.net/wordpress/images/toms2.jpg

Um... "Shell" ?

http://www.off-grid.net/wordpress/images/toms2.jpg

No, "Shell" is the word for "greedy." I've always liked Robert Klein's bit on the oil companies and the law of supply and demand: we have all the supply, we can demand whatever the fuck we want.

More toxic run-off from the landfill that is "multiculturalism."

God willing, the Dutch people will arise and eliminate this stupidity before it metastasizes further.

If certain segments of the population are "offended," good. They can leave any time and won't be missed.

The foregoing applies to all other civilized nations who are afflicted with a similar problem.

I'm not showing any level of nationalism in my posts, though.

If someone went into York College and it had a lot of immigrants there (note : it doesn't) with an English flag displayed on their backpack, I'd have to question their motives, no?

No.
It shouldn't matter how many immigrants are there at all! If someone wishes to have a symbol on their person and it is not inherently discriminatory (ie: Swastika, KKK, Black Power, whatever) there is no reason why it should be asked to be removed.

Wearing a Union Jack into a St. Patrick's Day dance? Unappropriate.
At a God Save the Queen party? Perfectly fine.

You are stupendously fucking stupid. And I will stand by that, because it's not character assassination, it's just the truth.

No, he is spot on. You, on the other hand, are clearly in denial, at the least.

You are stupendously fucking stupid. And I will stand by that, because it's not character assassination, it's just the truth.

By 2090, native Europeans will be a minority in their own countries if the current trends continue. Currently, Muslim immigrants are reproducing much faster than native Europeans. This is a worrying trend -- Muslims are pressuring Europeans into giving up their rights and not displaying their flags at school. Hell, in Paris, if a native European wine seller attempts to sell his wares in a Muslim-occupied region of town, he will be harassed, then beaten, then have his products destroyed. Something needs to be done.

No.
It shouldn't matter how many immigrants are there at all! If someone wishes to have a symbol on their person and it is not inherently discriminatory (ie: Swastika, KKK, Black Power, whatever) there is no reason why it should be asked to be removed.

Wearing a Union Jack into a St. Patrick's Day dance? Unappropriate.
At a God Save the Queen party? Perfectly fine.

In principle, Correct. :D

No, he is spot on. You, on the other hand, are clearly in denial, at the least.

No, you are clearly also fucking stupid. Again, not flaming just simple fact.

I don't see why the Netherlands necessarily needs patriotism. They might aswell just pack away the flags for good, because its fairly obvious to anyone that it is the greatest nation to ever exist... there's just no need to brag.

By 2090, native Europeans will be a minority in their own countries if the current trends continue. Currently, Muslim immigrants are reproducing much faster than native Europeans. This is a worrying trend -- Muslims are pressuring Europeans into giving up their rights and not displaying their flags at school. Hell, in Paris, if a native European wine seller attempts to sell his wares in a Muslim-occupied region of town, he will be harassed, then beaten, then have his products destroyed. Something needs to be done.

I'd love to see where you got the figures for that from.

No.
It shouldn't matter how many immigrants are there at all! If someone wishes to have a symbol on their person and it is not inherently discriminatory (ie: Swastika, KKK, Black Power, whatever) there is no reason why it should be asked to be removed.

Wearing a Union Jack into a St. Patrick's Day dance? Unappropriate.
At a God Save the Queen party? Perfectly fine.

Problem is, the Dutch flag amounts to a Swastika with these kids, because the kids that are wearing these things are generally neo-nazi's.

No.
It shouldn't matter how many immigrants are there at all! If someone wishes to have a symbol on their person and it is not inherently discriminatory (ie: Swastika, KKK, Black Power, whatever) there is no reason why it should be asked to be removed.

Wearing a Union Jack into a St. Patrick's Day dance? Unappropriate.
At a God Save the Queen party? Perfectly fine.

Schools in the U.S. have banned symbols in the past in order to avoid inflaming violence. Some local schools, the ones with a high African-American percentage in the student body, banned the Confederate flag in order to prevent fights breaking out over it. There isn't any inherent discrimination implied in the Stars and Bars, but enough of the students feel strongly enough about that it became an issue. The school does have a responsibility to prevent fights among the students, and if they are worried about the flag inspiring a fight, then they are justified in asking for it to be removed in order to maintain a safe enviroment.

By 2090, native Europeans will be a minority in their own countries if the current trends continue.
Ah yes, because Muslims will be having just as many children in 84 years' time... of course... and native Europeans will be having just as few.

What a truly ludicrous idea...
Currently, Muslim immigrants are reproducing much faster than native Europeans.
The key part being "currently". There are also not even that many immigrants in all actuality.
This is a worrying trend -- Muslims are pressuring Europeans into giving up their rights and not displaying their flags at school.
"As Muslims become more of the population, they start to have more sway"... shock of the fucking century...
Hell, in Paris, if a native European wine seller attempts to sell his wares in a Muslim-occupied region of town, he will be harassed, then beaten, then have his products destroyed. Something needs to be done.
In Bradford, if a Muslim went around a white council estate trying to sell veils and robes to cover women up, the very same would happen...

By 2090...

I honestly couldn't care what the world will be like in 2090. I'll be a very old man by then, I'll be too busy complaining about new-spangled hover-babies and designer-cows or whatever to actually care about the ethnic make-up of the people changing my chamber pot and delivering my meals-on-wheels.

Seriously though, Dominant Ideology Theory. It states that it is almost impossible for an immigrant group to change a nation's basic ideology. The assimilation process is too fast to be overtaken by anything other than a full-on colonisation.

Schools in the U.S. have banned symbols in the past in order to avoid inflaming violence. Some local schools, the ones with a high African-American percentage in the student body, banned the Confederate flag in order to prevent fights breaking out over it. There isn't any inherent discrimination implied in the Stars and Bars, but enough of the students feel strongly enough about that it became an issue. The school does have a responsibility to prevent fights among the students, and if they are worried about the flag inspiring a fight, then they are justified in asking for it to be removed in order to maintain a safe enviroment.

Exactly so. CONFEDERATE flags, not AMERICAN ones.

In Bradford, if a Muslim went around a white council estate trying to sell veils and robes to cover women up, the very same would happen...

Guess what? Muslims are the minority in America and we do not subscribe to their culture here. But suggesting that someone should take the national flag off their backpack to avoid offending some immigrants is disgusting. Europeans are bending way too far backwards over this -- they need to fight it. They should all display their flags with pride -- screw Muslims who don't agree with it. If they don't like seeing the Dutch flag, they can leave the Netherlands. I noted an interesting comment on that article that I am inclined to agree with:

As a American and a New Yorker I have to say this politically correct movement that is sweeping the planet will be the downfall of our great nations.

Even here in America where leftists are now mainstream.

Do not tolerate the defeatist and pessimistic attitudes of the liberal and the elitist left.

Please all of you Dutch! Have courage! Wear your colors with PRIDE! Many of your grandmothers and grandfathers have fought and DIED for those colors...Are you going to let the nazi's I mean ISLAM win?

Problem is, the Dutch flag amounts to a Swastika with these kids, because the kids that are wearing these things are generally neo-nazi's.

Are you kidding me?

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/n/nl.gif

DOES NOT EQUAL

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/n/nl%7Dss.gif

What's next?
"HEY YOU! STOP WEARING RED, COMMUNISM OFFENDS ME!" :rolleyes:

I'm going to refrain from commenting on this article because many people obviously think that I'm trollish for my conservative views. But it is an interesting and very disturbing read.

When will Europe wake up and see what is happening?

Lesson 103: Link your articles please.



And I blame Ruffy for this! :D

By 2090, native Europeans will be a minority in their own countries if the current trends continue. Currently, Muslim immigrants are reproducing much faster than native Europeans. This is a worrying trend -- Muslims are pressuring Europeans into giving up their rights and not displaying their flags at school. Hell, in Paris, if a native European wine seller attempts to sell his wares in a Muslim-occupied region of town, he will be harassed, then beaten, then have his products destroyed. Something needs to be done.

New Nordland? Is that you?? :p

I like your use of the term "Muslim-occupied". Nice way to let your hostility shine through. ;)

Oh, and remember lesson 103b: Back up your claims. Has this ever happened? Show us.

Are you kidding me?

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/n/nl.gif

DOES NOT EQUAL

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/n/nl%7Dss.gif

What's next?
"HEY YOU! STOP WEARING RED, COMMUNISM OFFENDS ME!" :rolleyes:

You missed the point.

Are you kidding me?

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/n/nl.gif

DOES NOT EQUAL

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/n/nl%7Dss.gif

What's next?
"HEY YOU! STOP WEARING RED, COMMUNISM OFFENDS ME!" :rolleyes:

The point he is making is that in many European countries (including my own home, the UK) national flags have been effectively "hijacked" by fascist and extreme right wing organisations. It means they can advocate their cod-philosophies yet hide behind the curtain of patriotism to avoid criticism.

This is partly our (society in general) own fault for letting this happen, but I do know that there is a movement in Britain to "reclaim the flag" from the British National Party.

How's this? If a fight starts (back in 2005 or whenever this was an issue), you ban the kids who started it. If no one can agree on that, ban everyone involved. "Flags don't punch people, people punch people."

And I'll be 139 in 2090, everyone send me your names and addresses, I'll be visiting to see how things are working out for you.

Guess what? Muslims are the minority in America and we do not subscribe to their culture here.

Why do you hate the culture of Dave Chapelle? Sure, he's not always funny, but... ;)

Exactly so. CONFEDERATE flags, not AMERICAN ones.

I think you missed the last third of my post. The point is that schools can ask their students to remove any symbol that might inspire violence and conflict in the student body. If the school in question feels that a student wearing Dutch flag might be a source of trouble, then they are within their duties to ask them to remove it.

The point he is making is that in many European countries (including my own home, the UK) national flags have been effectively "hijacked" by fascist and extreme right wing organisations. It means they can advocate their cod-philosophies yet hide behind the curtain of patriotism to avoid criticism.

This is partly our (society in general) own fault for letting this happen, but I do know that there is a movement in Britain to "reclaim the flag" from the British National Party.

People have been wrapping themselves in the flag for ages (a standard vaudeville ploy when your act was dying was to suddenly whip out a little flag, people automatically applaud). Do encourage people to reclaim it as a symbol of what's good about the country.

The point he is making is that in many European countries (including my own home, the UK) national flags have been effectively "hijacked" by fascist and extreme right wing organisations. It means they can advocate their cod-philosophies yet hide behind the curtain of patriotism to avoid criticism.

This is partly our (society in general) own fault for letting this happen, but I do know that there is a movement in Britain to "reclaim the flag" from the British National Party.

The Ku Klux Klan parades with American Flags, so do the Black Panthers. That doesn't mean we're going to ban American flags, nor their right to peacefully assemble, no matter how stupid they are.

The flag isn't the problem.

I think you missed the last third of my post. The point is that schools can ask their students to remove any symbol that might inspire violence and conflict in the student body. If the school in question feels that a student wearing Dutch flag might be a source of trouble, then they are within their duties to ask them to remove it.

I can't wait for the lawsuits once someone is asked to remove a cross, star of david, or whatever.

People have been wrapping themselves in the flag for ages (a standard vaudeville ploy when your act was dying was to suddenly whip out a little flag, people automatically applaud). Do encourage people to reclaim it as a symbol of what's good about the country.

Flying the Union flag has seen quite a resurgence in Britain in the last few years. Apparently it stems from the Golden Jubilee year in 2002, which was quickly followed by the Football World Cup in Japan. Many people simply left their flags flying, and have done so ever since. You can now drive through a British village and see quite a few homes flying the flag. It is absolutely the right thing to do and stop these right wing extremists from claiming false patriotic fervour.

EVERYTHING OFFENDS SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE!!! You name it, some idiot will find it offensive. The sky? Offensive. Primary colors? More like "racist" colors. You name it, someone is offended by it. That's one of the facts of life. You should not bend over backwards over something just because someone is offended. I have this thing called a life. I like it. They might not want one. If they did, they'd have one by now.

It fucking disgusts me to see how many fascists there really are on this board & in the world -

"We are being threatened by this group of people! They are destroying our values & our livelyhood! We must take immediate action to put a stop to them! If you don't like it, get the fuck out! You are either with us or against us, if you aren't a patriot, you're a traitor!"

If you believe this garbage, you are slime

It fucking disgusts me to see how many fascists there really are on this board & in the world -

"We are being threatened by this group of people! They are destroying our values & our livelyhood! We must take immediate action to put a stop to them! If you don't like it, get the fuck out! You are either with us or against us, if you aren't a patriot, you're a traitor!"

If you believe this garbage, you are slime

Yes, but what do you really think?

There is too much kowtowing to offended groups around the world, I agree. I sometimes think it's like trying to deal with a two-year-old who's discovered the wonders of the temper tantrum. Of course, burning and pillaging is rather more damaging than flopping down and kicking your feet, and apparently more effective, too. I don't know, it's as if everyone's brains have fallen out lately.

Flying the Union flag has seen quite a resurgence in Britain in the last few years. Apparently it stems from the Golden Jubilee year in 2002, which was quickly followed by the Football World Cup in Japan. Many people simply left their flags flying, and have done so ever since. You can now drive through a British village and see quite a few homes flying the flag. It is absolutely the right thing to do and stop these right wing extremists from claiming false patriotic fervour.

Regretably a lot of people are flying the ugly St. George's Cross instead of the true national flag...

Regretably a lot of people are flying the ugly St. George's Cross instead of the true national flag...

Ahh, methinks that has more to do with sporting allegiance than nationalism!;)

I think the whole thing is ridiculous. If the school wants them to take their flags off, it is the schools business. It is the schools responsibility to prevent conflict amidst the students and to make them feel safe & unthreatened, just like back when I was in school and they would give me flak for my shirt that said fuck on the back & my trench coat. The point is, it's the schools business, and anyone who is offended by their decision only has a problem because they are a lowlife rascist superpatriot, and they say you can love it or leave it, but the are the ones who should leave it because obviously they don't love it. We are all here together to share

I think the whole thing is ridiculous. If the school wants them to take their flags off, it is the schools business. It is the schools responsibility to prevent conflict amidst the students and to make them feel safe & unthreatened, just like back when I was in school and they would give me flak for my shirt that said fuck on the back & my trench coat. The point is, it's the schools business, and anyone who is offended by their decision only has a problem because they are a lowlife rascist superpatriot, and they say you can love it or leave it, but the are the ones who should leave it because obviously they don't love it. We are all here together to share

Amen to that

Not only is patriotism not enforced,

You say that as if it is a bad thing. In my opinion it isn't, but the opposite would be.

but the students were told to consider removing Dutch flags from their backpacks because it could offend some Muslims.

That however IS a bad thing.

With whomever is saying the flag isn't the problem, I do agree. The flag itself is not inherently evil: it does not hurt anyone, nor does it yell insults at you as you walk past its stoop. The flag did nothing wrong, and therefore, the flag is not what is in question. Rather, in question is the ideal of the flag: what it symbolizes, what it means, and who it represents.

To answer those questions. . .

1. Holland

2. Holland

3. The Dutch

How can you take offense to a symbol of a country that is relatively not violent or threatening? Sure, symbols of other countries can be taken offense to (the swastika, the hammer and sickle, whatever is your fancy), but that's because it is a SYMBOL of the COUNTRY. What people are actually taking offense to is not the symbol, but the country itself. So if the Dutch flag is being regarded as offensive to students of Muslim decent. . .see where I'm going with this? The school was right in only suggesting that the flags be removed and the students were not forced to take them off, but it's still the point of it. How can people living in Holland take offense. . .to Holland? If you don't like living in Holland because of the way its flag looks, then you do have the choice to move out of the Netherlands.

I don't know, is it an appeal thing? Do followers of Islam not like the color orange? I'm actually being serious here, is the flag (three rows, Orange, White, and Blue) that offensive? If you don't like it, just don't look at it: it's not hurting anyone, and if it's causing anyone distress, then, like I said, the person doesn't have a problem with the flag, they have a problem with the Netherlands.


Personally, I like the color orange :)

I think the whole thing is ridiculous. If the school wants them to take their flags off, it is the schools business. It is the schools responsibility to prevent conflict amidst the students and to make them feel safe & unthreatened, just like back when I was in school and they would give me flak for my shirt that said fuck on the back & my trench coat. The point is, it's the schools business, and anyone who is offended by their decision only has a problem because they are a lowlife rascist superpatriot, and they say you can love it or leave it, but the are the ones who should leave it because obviously they don't love it. We are all here together to share

Like I said, if you do it, someone might get offended. Talk. Someone somewhere would have been offended. Look at someone? Someone, somewhere finds that offensive. If you don't like seeing something you do not have to look at, then don't look at it. That's not racist. That's not nationalism. There's an old saying: A man with two masters pleases niether or was it "you can't please two masters". What does that have to do with the topic? You can never please everyone. To think you can is pure ignorance. If you can't function because you are offended, then do us all a favor and either deal with it or drop dead, thereby helping the human species.

There are things that offend me. I don't like being called a retard. I don't like it when the occassional idiot throws something at me. I learned to deal with the fact that the human race is incredibly flawed.

Guess what? Muslims are the minority in America and we do not subscribe to their culture here.
They're the minority in Europe, contrary to your bigoted beliefs, and we don't subscribe to our culture here either.

A large Muslim group is actively encouraging a debate as to women wearing veils should be restricted in the UK.

Not all Muslims are shying away from the culture of the lands in which they've chosen to live, I think you'll find. Far from it.
But suggesting that someone should take the national flag off their backpack to avoid offending some immigrants is disgusting.
No it isn't. Why is it?

A flag is, by definition, pretty much a way to discriminate one group from another. If you take away all of the flags, then you don't get that kind of discrimination going on.
Europeans are bending way too far backwards over this -- they need to fight it.
One school in Holland tells some people to take their flags off their bags (and as has been pointed out, flags are usually used only by fascists in Europe) to avoid ethnic tensions... truly Europe as a whole is doomed.
They should all display their flags with pride
There were only two of them... it's hardly like a whole school is being oppressed... they were probably skinheads if they were putting flags on their backpacks as any kind of symbol.
-- screw Muslims who don't agree with it.
Oh the insight...
If they don't like seeing the Dutch flag, they can leave the Netherlands.
Ermm... why?

I think that the English flag isn't that nice, but I'm staying here... people stay for things other than to see their flag, you know...
I noted an interesting comment on that article that I am inclined to agree with:
What's the most interesting thing is that it claims that being left-wing is a popular movement in the US. No it isn't.

Okay, this appears to be an old newspaper article. But there needs to be some background info provided.

Firstly, it's been the policy of the Dutch government and schools in general to promote ethnic pride in the minorities. So, a Morrocan wearing a Morrocan flag is not a problem. However, pride in being Dutch is often seen as being nationalistic and a problem.

Secondly, the article doesn't give any more information about these kids with the Dutch flag. Are they skinheads with white laces, or are they wearing army surplus stuff? Have the been known to participate in extreme-right activities or not? In other words, what's the context of their use of the Dutch flag.

Thirdly, was the flag part of the bag when they bought it, as it is used in fashion, or was it something they added later - and why did they add it later. Canadian tourists routinely have their flag, although to avoid being confused with Americans, this is understandable.

Before anything sensible can be said about this, beyond the blanket banning of the Dutch flag, more information is needed.

Oh, I'm Dutch living in Amsterdam by the way.

I'm actually being serious here, is the flag (three rows, Orange, White, and Blue) that offensive?

Red, white and blue actually ;) The orange was replaced quite a few decades ago. The national sports teams still wear orange though.

Personally, I like the color orange :)
:confused:

http://www.contour-diamonds.com/contour/slices/contour%20flags/Dutch%20flag%20large.gif

is the flag (three rows, Orange, White, and Blue) that offensive?
It's red, white and dark blue. No orange in it...

And I prefer the flag of Luxembourg, for its blue is a nicer shade.

meh, I still like orange!

Anyone else noticed MTAE's distinct absence after the third page, something prevalent in nearly all his threads?

It's red, white and dark blue. No orange in it...


Not anymore, no. Originally the top was orange though.
Of course, we are talking about the period around 1600 AD then.

Not anymore, no. Originally the top was orange though.
Of course, we are talking about the period around 1600 AD then.
...

Indeed.

But it hasn't been for a fair while, as you said.

They're the minority in Europe, contrary to your bigoted beliefs, and we don't subscribe to our culture here either.
A large Muslim group is actively encouraging a debate as to women wearing veils should be restricted in the UK.
Not all Muslims are shying away from the culture of the lands in which they've chosen to live, I think you'll find. Far from it.
No it isn't. Why is it?
A flag is, by definition, pretty much a way to discriminate one group from another. If you take away all of the flags, then you don't get that kind of discrimination going on.
One school in Holland tells some people to take their flags off their bags (and as has been pointed out, flags are usually used only by fascists in Europe) to avoid ethnic tensions... truly Europe as a whole is doomed.
There were only two of them... it's hardly like a whole school is being oppressed... they were probably skinheads if they were putting flags on their backpacks as any kind of symbol.
Oh the insight...
Ermm... why?
I think that the English flag isn't that nice, but I'm staying here... people stay for things other than to see their flag, you know...
What's the most interesting thing is that it claims that being left-wing is a popular movement in the US. No it isn't.

This can apply to some flags-like those that portray swastikas-but the Danish national flag, to the best of my knowledge is a non-offensive insignia. It implies no sort of discrimination, or racism whatsoever.

Is alcohol banned in Dearborn?
Are women forced to wear a veil in Dearborn?
Are thieves getting their hands cut-off in Dearborn?
no. no. and no.

Europe isn't going to turn into saudi fucking arabia just because they have a substantial population of muslims. Grow-up and lose the generalisations & Paranoia.

I'm going to refrain from commenting on this article because many people obviously think that I'm trollish for my conservative views.

Conservative? Please. You're as radical as any diehard commie or anarchist alive.

Sorry, but you can't hide your trollishness by dismissing it as "conservative." There are conservatives. And there are people who just want to get a rise out of others. Ann Coulter, for example, is one of the latter. So are you, except of course you're nowhere near as successful.

One school in Holland tells some people to take their flags off their bags (and as has been pointed out, flags are usually used only by fascists in Europe) to avoid ethnic tensions... truly Europe as a whole is doomed.

I see no reason why someone shouldn't be proud to be from their country. Preventing someone from bringing a national flag into school sounds of giving in to fear of some kind. If seeing a flag enrages you then perhaps you need to take a time out and not have such a pesky temper. I'm not extremely patriotic by any means but if a school I was going to told me not to bring my national flag I'd say screw you.

meh, I still like orange!
An excellent point, it is a lovely colour, I suppose.

This can apply to some flags-like those that portray swastikas-but the Danish national flag, to the best of my knowledge is a non-offensive insignia. It implies no sort of discrimination, or racism whatsoever.
It may not have racism, but it does have discrimination. That's the whole point of flags...

It says "This territory belongs to Denmark. Not to any foreigners. Just Denmark".

Is alcohol banned in Dearborn?
Are women forced to wear a veil in Dearborn?
Are thieves getting their hands cut-off in Dearborn?
no. no. and no.

Europe isn't going to turn into saudi fucking arabia just because they have a substantial population of muslims. Grow-up and lose the generalisations & Paranoia.

America has the best integrated muslim population in the West.

Some questions you might want to ask of yourself are:

Are there honor killings in Sweden?
Are there attacks on Jews in France?

Speaking of Dearborn, weren't there pro-hezbollah demonstrations back during the summer? Hardly a beacon of humanitarianism, if you ask me.

Speaking of Dearborn, weren't there pro-hezbollah demonstrations back during the summer? Hardly a beacon of humanitarianism, if you ask me.
And a pro-Israel demonstration would be?

"Heh, no worries that you smash peoples' houses down - you were once oppressed!"

It may not have racism, but it does have discrimination. That's the whole point of flags...

It says "This territory belongs to Denmark. Not to any foreigners. Just Denmark".

And what's wrong with that? Nation-states have been around since the city-states of Athens, and since Rome. The insitutions of Denmark regulate what goes on in Denmark, not America or Egypt, so it kind of makes sense to call the area under their jurisdiction their own.

And a pro-Israel demonstration would be?

"Heh, no worries that you smash peoples' houses down - you were once oppressed!"

You don't have to like Israel, but Hezbollah is a group that deliberately tries to kill as many people as possible. How can you apologize for such a group?

When the Israelis do it, they at least apologize.

You don't have to like Israel, but Hezbollah is a group that deliberately tries to kill as many people as possible. How can you apologize for such a group?

When the Israelis do it, they at least apologize.

Why should one apologize if one is certain they are doing the right thing[tm] ?

Conservative? Please. You're as radical as any diehard commie or anarchist alive.

Sorry, but you can't hide your trollishness by dismissing it as "conservative." There are conservatives. And there are people who just want to get a rise out of others. Ann Coulter, for example, is one of the latter. So are you, except of course you're nowhere near as successful.

But she has an action figure!

And what's wrong with that? Nation-states have been around since the city-states of Athens, and since Rome. The insitutions of Denmark regulate what goes on in Denmark, not America or Egypt, so it kind of makes sense to call the area under their jurisdiction their own.
Well there's nothing intrinsically wrong with it at all... it's just that because they're a symbol of discrimination, a lot of fascist groups in Europe use their country's flag as a symbol in a negative discriminatory way.

This is the issue here... in the UK, it's mostly skinheads that put flags around the place, like on their bags, for example, as a way of showing their own heritage, and making people from overseas, especially immigrants, feel unwelcome.

I might be speaking crap of the highest, but I imagine it might be somewhat the same in Holland.

But she has an action figure!

George Bush action figure:

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/p/9/bush_eliteactionfigure.jpg

The Aviator ;)

Also, just to point out, Holland and the Netherlands are not the same thing.

The Netherlands is technically the United Kingdom of the Netherlands, a unitary consisting of several different nations, with Holland being the (two of the) largest of them.

It's exactly the same mistake that people make when they say England when they mean Britain (something I find really annoying, and thus assume the Dutch find it just as annoying).

So yeah, don't be ign'ant, call countries by their proper names.

America has the best integrated muslim population in the West.

Yup, heres an idea; Why doesn't Europe integrate its muslim population?


Speaking of Dearborn, weren't there pro-hezbollah demonstrations back during the summer? Hardly a beacon of humanitarianism, if you ask me.

Pro-Lebanon demos.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006607190396

the protest was 100% peaceful, there were a few idiots carrying pro-hezz signs though. But most of them just had lebanese flags and stuff.

George Bush action figure:

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/p/9/bush_eliteactionfigure.jpg

The Aviator ;)

Heh heh ... :p

Okay, so we're agreed? Banning the flag is not a very well thought-out way to avoid conflicts among students. And digging up a 20-month old article to elicit responses on a forum is reaching.

Well there's nothing intrinsically wrong with it at all... it's just that because they're a symbol of discrimination, a lot of fascist groups in Europe use their country's flag as a symbol in a negative discriminatory way.

This is the issue here... in the UK, it's mostly skinheads that put flags around the place, like on their bags, for example, as a way of showing their own heritage, and making people from overseas, especially immigrants, feel unwelcome.

I might be speaking crap of the highest, but I imagine it might be somewhat the same in Holland.

I don't know how it works in Europe, but in America, everyone who loves their country puts up the flag. White people, Hispanicss, Blacks, Asians...

You can hardly see a store without an American flag on it.

Europe can't be that much different, can it? Shouting and throwing rocks at immigrants will make they feel unwelcome. Putting up a flag says that you're glad to live in your country, and that you feel a personal connection to it. If that offends anyone, immigrant or native, they don't belong in that country for the simple reason that they dislike that country. Why would you want to stay in a place you dislike?

I'm not reitirating the absurd "love it or leave it" phrase used by cons here in America. No nation is perfect, and many things in America frustrate me, but I still love America, and I have no intention of leaving.

By and large, I think that's exactly the same mindset that most people who put up their nation's flags have.

And what's wrong with that? Nation-states have been around since the city-states of Athens, and since Rome. The insitutions of Denmark regulate what goes on in Denmark, not America or Egypt, so it kind of makes sense to call the area under their jurisdiction their own.

He's not making a moral judgement, he is simply stating that the flag's primary goal to demarkate what belongs to a state, and to discriminate against those who do not have access to that state. That is a fact, that is what flags do.

Yup, heres an idea; Why doesn't Europe integrate its muslim population?
Ehm... it lets people make their own choices, really.

If you want to integrate, nobody in the Houses of Commons will say "OI! GET BACK IN YOUR OWN NEIGHBOURHOOD!", just in the same fashion that if people don't actually want to live in an area with non-Muslims, then that's their own choice.

Although Labour is trying to mix things up forcibly. Kind of like a reverse Apartheid... sad, really.

Yup, heres an idea; Why doesn't Europe integrate its muslim population?

Pro-Lebanon demos.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006607190396

the protest was 100% peaceful, there were a few idiots carrying pro-hezz signs though. But most of them just had lebanese flags and stuff.

1) Agreed. I suggest they do away with their ridiculous socialist policies right away.

2) I can understand pro-Lebanon demos. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I have no animosity towards that at all. Hezbollah is an entirely different story.

I guess you're bound to get bad apples in every group.

He's not making a moral judgement, he is simply stating that the flag's primary goal to demarkate what belongs to a state, and to discriminate against those who do not have access to that state. That is a fact, that is what flags do.

So are you suggesting that there should be complete freedom of movement?

I don't know how it works in Europe, but in America, everyone who loves their country puts up the flag. White people, Hispanicss, Blacks, Asians...

You can hardly see a store without an American flag on it.

Europe can't be that much different, can it? Shouting and throwing rocks at immigrants will make they feel unwelcome. Putting up a flag says that you're glad to live in your country, and that you feel a personal connection to it. If that offends anyone, immigrant or native, they don't belong in that country for the simple reason that they dislike that country. Why would you want to stay in a place you dislike?

I'm not reitirating the absurd "love it or leave it" phrase used by cons here in America. No nation is perfect, and many things in America frustrate me, but I still love America, and I have no intention of leaving.

By and large, I think that's exactly the same mindset that most people who put up their nation's flags have.

Yes. It is very different in Europe. Many people still see flags as symbolism of a time when governments used nationalism to extinguish rational thought and encourage a regime of oppression and genocide. The flying of flags is greeted in most corners with suspicion, and overt flag-wavery is seen as infantile and unnecessary.

So are you suggesting that there should be complete freedom of movement?

Not in that statement, no. I am simply explaining to you, with no moral bias, what it is that flags do.

Although yes, I do suggest that there should, ideally, be complete freedom of movement.

Europe is in danger of becoming an Islamic theocracy if it continues down this path. Not only is patriotism not enforced, but the students were told to consider removing Dutch flags from their backpacks because it could offend some Muslims. What is happening is nothing short of an Islamic invasion of Europe -- immigrants are pouring in and subjecting the country to their own fancies and prejudices. Europe must resist.


good thing i bought muslim insurance.

Yes. It is very different in Europe. Many people still see flags as symbolism of a time when governments used nationalism to extinguish rational thought and encourage a regime of oppression and genocide. The flying of flags is greeted in most corners with suspicion, and overt flag-wavery is seen as infantile and unnecessary.

I could see how that applies to countries like Germany or France(le francaises were all to ready to hand over their Jews during the Holocaust, and of course, there's the carnage of World War1), but surely it's not the same in countries like Britain or Holland?

good thing i bought muslim insurance.

:p

Not in that statement, no. I am simply explaining to you, with no moral bias, what it is that flags do.

Although yes, I do suggest that there should, ideally, be complete freedom of movement.

On the other hand, flags could also signify a pride and love for your home. Nothing wrong with that, I hope?

meh, I still like orange!

Obviously you're a deviant. Any color that doesn't rhyme with anything must be the work of the devil. Just like the metric system, Madonna, and KFC.

I think Nigel Powers said it best:
All right Goldmember. Don't play the laughing boy. There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures - and the Dutch.

:D

Is alcohol banned in Dearborn?
Are women forced to wear a veil in Dearborn?
Are thieves getting their hands cut-off in Dearborn?
no. no. and no.

Europe isn't going to turn into saudi fucking arabia just because they have a substantial population of muslims. Grow-up and lose the generalisations & Paranoia.

Don't laugh too soon: the native americans didn't believe their ground could be sold from under them, either.

I don't know how it works in Europe, but in America, everyone who loves their country puts up the flag. White people, Hispanicss, Blacks, Asians...

You can hardly see a store without an American flag on it.

Europe can't be that much different, can it?

one european country doing something doesnt mean all europe does it.
ireland is pretty muslim friendly compared to others, but also we dont make fun of thier culture any less we do to others(like germany).

Don't laugh too soon: the native americans didn't believe their ground could be sold from under them, either.

Right. Cause arabs are so much more militarily advanced than us and they have a myriad of diseases that we have no resistance to....:rolleyes:

I could see how that applies to countries like Germany or France(le francaises were all to ready to hand over their Jews during the Holocaust, and of course, there's the carnage of World War1), but surely it's not the same in countries like Britain or Holland?

Well, it's mostly the last part here in the Netherlands. It's seen as silly mostly.

I'm going to refrain from commenting on this article because many people obviously think that I'm trollish for my conservative views. But it is an interesting and very disturbing read.



When will Europe wake up and see what is happening?

There has been a few cases like this in America where some local politicians or civil rights leaders think displaying the American flag is some how a sign of aggression to others. which is absurd because if someone is an immigrant or a minority, then they are American too. period.

whatever, as long as they this flawed thinking does not ever catch on here.

Don't laugh too soon: the native americans didn't believe their ground could be sold from under them, either.

Of course the native americans were slaughtered en masse by the invaders. The natives also were about a thousand years behind in terms of technology and population. Yes, how easily comparable it is to Europe, which is obviously far, far behind the power and technology levels of dirt-poor immigrants from the third world.

Right. Cause arabs are so much more militarily advanced than us and they have a myriad of diseases that we have no resistance to....:rolleyes:

...and don't forget those veiled women of theirs!!! It's enough to drive young, hormones-gone-crazy lads like me into a frenzy!

Right. Cause arabs are so much more militarily advanced than us and they have a myriad of diseases that we have no resistance to....:rolleyes:

well as far as Europe goes, they're certainly migrating and breeding in much larger numbers.

I don't know how it works in Europe, but in America, everyone who loves their country puts up the flag. White people, Hispanicss, Blacks, Asians...

You can hardly see a store without an American flag on it.

Europe can't be that much different, can it?
You're not even allowed to put up a flag in England (and possibly all of the UK, I'm unsure) without it being a special day, or you being a part of an embassy etc.

You can't just put one up on your house and especially not on a shop.
Shouting and throwing rocks at immigrants will make they feel unwelcome.
Correct in most cases.

If you're shouting praise towards them, or throwing sticks of rock (I guess you'd call them 'candy canes' or something in the US) then no.

But I digress.
Putting up a flag says that you're glad to live in your country, and that you feel a personal connection to it.
This is where things differ.

In the UK, and I believe Europe in general, in the 70's and 80's, the flag of your nation became a symbol of fascists of that nation. The BNP, for example, wanted to "reclaim the flag".

Because of the depression of the 70's (in part due to the oil crisis), a lot of working class people became unemployed, and extremely poor.

There was also still a fair bit of immigration in these times, and because of the fact that a lot of these immigrants would work for less, and hence would get jobs instead of these 'native' white people, a lot of resentment was created towards immigrants, basically because they had money, whereas 'native' whites didn't have two pennies to rub together.

The BNP, as well as groups like the National Front (described in the Anti-Nazi League's chant like so : "The National Front is a Nazi Front! Smash the National Front!") gained a lot of strength in these times, and these people used the Union Jack and the flag of St. George as a sign that they were natives of Britain / England respectively.

This was essentially a sort of "fuck off, I want jobs in my country, I am actually from this country, so I deserve them" sort of gesture.

These people also usually wore jackboots and had shaved heads, to show their militarist roots.

To this day, white people who wear military-type gear and have very short hair, and who show off the British / English flag are generally neo-nazis or of that ilk.
If that offends anyone, immigrant or native, they don't belong in that country for the simple reason that they dislike that country.
When a flag starts to have negative connotations, it's not that they dislike the country, it's that they dislike the bastards waving it.
Why would you want to stay in a place you dislike?
Economic / Educational benefits, perchance?
I'm not reitirating the absurd "love it or leave it" phrase used by cons here in America. No nation is perfect, and many things in America frustrate me, but I still love America, and I have no intention of leaving.
Can't say fairer than that...
By and large, I think that's exactly the same mindset that most people who put up their nation's flags have.
That may well be true in the US, but not so in the UK and, I believe, in most of Europe (although I can't really be sure outside of my shores, sorry).

well as far as Europe goes, they're certainly migrating and breeding in much larger numbers.

...and this is bad because the West is supposed to have "quotas" for how many children you can have? Or wait, immigration is a crime now?

If my neighbor has more kids than me, I don't see it as a threat. Maybe I'm just not paranoid enough.

I could see how that applies to countries like Germany or France(le francaises were all to ready to hand over their Jews during the Holocaust, and of course, there's the carnage of World War1), but surely it's not the same in countries like Britain or Holland?

There were collaborators in the Netherlands too who paraded the national flag, and the British Union of Fascists, and their following incarnations used the flag to much the same affect.

That and the fact that we were so close to the Fascist regimes (both geographically and culturally) meant that we could easily see that becoming of us... hence the distrust.

It doesn't mean that we don't love our countries, we just do it quietly and subtly.

You're not even allowed to put up a flag in England (and possibly all of the UK, I'm unsure) without it being a special day, or you being a part of an embassy etc.

You can't just put one up on your house and especially not on a shop.


Ever been to Northern Ireland?

...and this is bad because the West is supposed to have "quotas" for how many children you can have? Or wait, immigration is a crime now?

If my neighbor has more kids than me, I don't see it as a threat. Maybe I'm just not paranoid enough.
Nah, it's OK, because they're probably white Christians.

Otherwise, yeah, castrate them after a couple of children. For sure.

I'm sure MarkReich will approve.

Ever been to Northern Ireland?
See the "but I'm unsure" bit next to the section you highlighted?

See the "but I'm unsure" bit next to the section you highlighted?

Yeah it wasnt meant to be an insult to yourself just pointing it out.

Yeah it wasnt meant to be an insult to yourself just pointing it out.
Oh OK.

Sorry, I'm a bit tired at the moment, sorry that I took it a little badly to say the least.

i've been talking to some dudes who want to take the real real old irish back off england. apparently england copied ours, i didnt care enough about it to check if they were right.
anyway i prefare the official state flag or leinster flag.
flagy wagg. (http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/i/ie-lei.gif)

Right. Cause arabs are so much more militarily advanced than us and they have a myriad of diseases that we have no resistance to....:rolleyes:

I'm not saying it's *going* to happen, just that it *can*. The US never thought it was going to lose in Viet Nam. The British certainly never expected to lose to the American Colonies. The Berlin Wall would never be torn down.

There are tons of examples of the impossible coming true. Just because a particular reason doesn't fit don't dismiss the possibility.

Yes. It is very different in Europe. Many people still see flags as symbolism of a time when governments used nationalism to extinguish rational thought and encourage a regime of oppression and genocide. The flying of flags is greeted in most corners with suspicion, and overt flag-wavery is seen as infantile and unnecessary.
Except during international footie-matches, when it's a no-holds-barred flag-fest bonanza deluxe of flags; all kinds, sizes and colours. It's a sight to make your eyes water :p

Conservative? Please. You're as radical as any diehard commie or anarchist alive.

Sorry, but you can't hide your trollishness by dismissing it as "conservative." There are conservatives. And there are people who just want to get a rise out of others. Ann Coulter, for example, is one of the latter. So are you, except of course you're nowhere near as successful.

How do you know MTAE isn't Ann Coulter!? :eek:

Of course the native americans were slaughtered en masse by the invaders. The natives also were about a thousand years behind in terms of technology and population. Yes, how easily comparable it is to Europe, which is obviously far, far behind the power and technology levels of dirt-poor immigrants from the third world.

The idea I'm trying to convey is that their world was changed dramatically by events beyond their control. That may happen anywhere, and it may well happen to Holland, too.

I'm not saying it's *going* to happen, just that it *can*. The US never thought it was going to lose in Viet Nam. The British certainly never expected to lose to the American Colonies. The Berlin Wall would never be torn down.

There are tons of examples of the impossible coming true. Just because a particular reason doesn't fit don't dismiss the possibility.

I'm sure it could happen, its not impossible; impossibility doesn't exist.

I'm saying it in all probability won't happen.

Nah, it's OK, because they're probably white Christians.

Otherwise, yeah, castrate them after a couple of children. For sure.

I'm sure MarkReich will approve.

WTF kind of an insult is that?

i've been talking to some dudes who want to take the real real old irish back off england. apparently england copied ours, i didnt care enough about it to check if they were right.
anyway i prefare the official state flag or leinster flag.
flagy wagg. (http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/i/ie-lei.gif)

I dont understand this sentence

The idea I'm trying to convey is that their world was changed dramatically by events beyond their control. That may happen anywhere, and it may well happen to Holland, too.
I'm sure the people living in Holland are more worried about mass flooding than mass immigration...

i've been talking to some dudes who want to take the real real old irish back off england. apparently england copied ours, i didnt care enough about it to check if they were right.
anyway i prefare the official state flag or leinster flag.
flagy wagg. (http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/i/ie-lei.gif)

Thats the 1798 flag. The fenian one is fairly nice too, it must be said.

...and this is bad because the West is supposed to have "quotas" for how many children you can have? Or wait, immigration is a crime now?

If my neighbor has more kids than me, I don't see it as a threat. Maybe I'm just not paranoid enough.


Bad? not necessarily bad, but the cultural landscape of Europe could be very different in only a generation.

I'm sure the people living in Holland are more worried about mass flooding than mass immigration...

This is true. Which is ironic, since the folks in New Orleans were more worried about mass (illegal) immigration more than mass flooding!

I dont understand this sentence

Do the amazing feat of "guessing". Considering some of the hacked-up abortions of sentences that get shat from key-boards on to this forum. thats a fucking piece of literature.

Bad? not necessarily bad, but the cultural landscape of Europe could be very different in only a generation.
A thought that truly rocks me to the core...

The idea I'm trying to convey is that their world was changed dramatically by events beyond their control. That may happen anywhere, and it may well happen to Holland, too.

No, the idea you were trying to convey was that we should feel sympathy for Holland because they are being invaded by Muslims in the same way that Europeans invaded the Americas. Sympathy, and fear.

I'm sure the people living in Holland are more worried about mass flooding than mass immigration...

Bah! they just need the little boy to stick his other finger in the border.

Problems. Solved.

No, the idea you were trying to convey was that we should feel sympathy for Holland because they are being invaded by Muslims in the same way that Europeans invaded the Americas. Sympathy, and fear.

OY. Now you're trying to tell me what I'm saying? :rolleyes:

Do the amazing feat of "guessing". Considering some of the hacked-up abortions of sentences that get shat from key-boards on to this forum. thats a fucking piece of literature.

In the same amount of words you've just used you could have been polite enough to simply clarify it for me rather than being sarcastic

OY. Now you're trying to tell me what I'm saying? :rolleyes:

The message is clear. I'm just cutting through the bullshit. Sorry if that doesn't sit well with you.

I dont understand this sentence

i didnt say what they said to me made any sense.

In the same amount of words you've just used you could have been polite enough to simply clarify it for me rather than being sarcastic

That must be why Jesus just doesnt want me as a sunbeam.

That must be why Jesus just doesnt want me as a sunbeam.

:rolleyes:

Banning the flag of your own country IN your own country? That's pathetically stupid.

This is true. Which is ironic, since the folks in New Orleans were more worried about mass (illegal) immigration more than mass flooding!
No, it was more "They vote Blue, they die now" on Bush's part, although getting the police to shoot black people was out of order in the extreme.

Banning the flag of your own country IN your own country? That's pathetically stupid.
Ehmm... why?

If you're already there, then why point it out again and again?

Ehmm... why?

If you're already there, then why point it out again and again?

It's free choice, if you wanna show off your flag, then show it off. Freedom of expression, freedom of choice. If you don't like seeing the flag, then thats your own problem, deal with it.

Ehmm... why?

If you're already there, then why point it out again and again?

Unless that thing about hash and short term memory really is worse than was believed.......

If I were the student, I wouldn't have removed the flag just because it might "offend" someone. Everyone finds something offensive. I don't expect people to accomodate me when I'm offended, so why should I remove something just because someone might be offended? Seriously, people need to grow the hell up. While I don't think we should deliberately try to offend people, there's no reason to bend over back-ass-wards to appease anyone.

It's free choice, if you wanna show off your flag, then show it off. Freedom of expression, freedom of choice. If you don't like seeing the flag, then thats your own problem, deal with it.

Amen.

Free speech > political correctness

It's free choice, if you wanna show off your flag, then show it off. Freedom of expression, freedom of choice.
How do you feel about flag burning?
If you don't like seeing the flag, then thats your own problem, deal with it.
*sighs*

The connotations with flag use in England are very much removed from those of, say, Canada.

Read my pretty long post one or two pages back for why...

By 2090, native Europeans will be a minority in their own countries if the current trends continue. Currently, Muslim immigrants are reproducing much faster than native Europeans. This is a worrying trend -- Muslims are pressuring Europeans into giving up their rights and not displaying their flags at school. Hell, in Paris, if a native European wine seller attempts to sell his wares in a Muslim-occupied region of town, he will be harassed, then beaten, then have his products destroyed. Something needs to be done.

Ha. Amusing. Yes, because short trends don't have a tendency to level themselves out. Absurd.

This was an action where a school REQUESTED the flag be removed. It happened over a year ago and you're clearly just searching for ANYTHING to bitch about groups that coincidentally happen to all be non-white. Okay, maybe not coincidentally.

I bolded the important bits. The guys were asked not forced, to remove their flags. A bit too PC, not not really rant-worthy.

Yeah, annoyingly PC. Verging on ridiculous and comical.

Needles to say, if I had been the Dutch student, I'd have said "no thanks, I like the patch where it is, thanks."

If I were the student, I wouldn't have removed the flag just because it might "offend" someone. Everyone finds something offensive. I don't expect people to accomodate me when I'm offended, so why should I remove something just because someone might be offended? Seriously, people need to grow the hell up. While I don't think we should deliberately try to offend people, there's no reason to bend over back-ass-wards to appease anyone.


there is also different levels of "offensive" and showing the flag of your home country, in your home country, should not be very high on the list. hell it shouldn't even be on the list.

If I were the student, I wouldn't have removed the flag just because it might "offend" someone. Everyone finds something offensive.

I don't expect people to accomodate me when I'm offended, so why should I remove something just because someone might be offended? You don't? get with the times, everyone's doing it!

Seriously, people need to grow the hell up. :eek:

While I don't think we should deliberately try to offend people, there's no reason to bend over back-ass-wards to appease anyone.Ah, but law suits are so expensive. So are trashed campus buildings.

Okay, I was teasing. I agree, actually, that people need to get past the culture of victimhood that seems to pervade everything these days.

How do you feel about flag burning?

Flag burning is definitely fine, so long as the flag belongs to you or as long as you have permission from its owner. I support the right to burn flags in the name of both free expression and property rights.

there is also different levels of "offensive" and showing the flag of your home country, in your home country, should not be very high on the list. hell it shouldn't even be on the list.

Agreed.

Flag burning is definitely fine, so long as the flag belongs to you or as long as you have permission from its owner. I support the right to burn flags in the name of both free expression and property rights.


what about setting things on fire in public? could prove to be a hazard. :p

How do you feel about flag burning?


I don't much care for it, and it does offend me to some degree, but people have a right to do it if they want to.

If free speech is respected, people are going to get offended. Simple as that. People just need to learn to deal with being offended without going nuts.

Flag burning is definitely fine, so long as the flag belongs to you or as long as you have permission from its owner. I support the right to burn flags in the name of both free expression and property rights.
I didn't really ask for your opinion, but fair enough.

still no one has told me who this don fellow is.

Flag burning is definitely fine, so long as the flag belongs to you or as long as you have permission from its owner. I support the right to burn flags in the name of both free expression and property rights.

Exactly. My flag is not my country. I can deal with people being pissed off at the US and burning the flag (I think they look kind of silly, dancing around trying not to set themselves on fire, too, flags don't burn gracefully). In this country, if you really want to prevent it, require that all new flags be made of fire-retardant material. That'll take care of the problem.

I don't much care for it, and it does offend me to some degree, but people have a right to do it if they want to.

If free speech is respected, people are going to get offended. Simple as that. People just need to learn to deal with being offended without going nuts.

Well said.

How do you feel about flag burning?

I personally wouldn't. But if a flag is being burned, then its burned, nothing we can do about that.


The connotations with flag use in England are very much removed from those of, say, Canada.


Well yes, I agree with what you're saying. But like Congo-Kinshasa already mentioned, everyone gets offended about something right? If you don't like my bright yellow pants and you find bright yellow things offensive, obviously I'm not going to take off my pants for you just because YOU don't like it, right? :rolleyes:

If you are for free speech, you have to be for all of it, even if some of it offends you. Otherwise you're a hypocrite.

I'm a fascist bastard.

Thanks for being clear. :headbang:

If you are for free speech, you have to be for all of it, even if some of it offends you. Otherwise you're a hypocrite.

I'll admit, there were times I thought certain things went "too far," but in retrospect, I agree with you. All free speech should be tolerated, regardless of how vile, tasteless, obscene, immoral, or offensive it may be.

No, it was more "They vote Blue, they die now" on Bush's part, although getting the police to shoot black people was out of order in the extreme.

(Um... Louisiana voted GOP in both elections...)

Lol!! You mean the police that mostly deserted during Katrina?

still no one has told me who this don fellow is.

http://www.artlex.com/ArtLex/a/images/amer.gothic_dmartin.lg.jpg

Europe is in danger of becoming an Islamic theocracy if it continues down this path. Not only is patriotism not enforced, but the students were told to consider removing Dutch flags from their backpacks because it could offend some Muslims. What is happening is nothing short of an Islamic invasion of Europe -- immigrants are pouring in and subjecting the country to their own fancies and prejudices. Europe must resist.

ROFLMAO!!!!

LOL!!!
LOL!!!!

I'm sorry, were you trying to be serious?

I don't know why people are talking about Islam here. It's unrelated.

How the hell is this "worrying"?

Oh no! Patriotism isn't enforced!

Aiee!
You need to practice your reading comprehension mate. The flag is being strongly discouraged, not being made neutrally optional.

If someone went into York College and it had a lot of immigrants there (note : it doesn't) with an English flag displayed on their backpack, I'd have to question their motives, no?
I would give them the benefit of the doubt. As I would if an immigrant displayed the flag of his parent country. (I'm sure you would as well, only I don't harbour any "white guilt")

Problem is, the Dutch flag amounts to a Swastika with these kids, because the kids that are wearing these things are generally neo-nazi's.
That's absolute bullshit. The Dutch flag doesn't belong to right-wing extremists.

I noted an interesting comment on that article that I am inclined to agree with:
This isn't helpful. I disagree with the school, but it's not an indicator of a Europe-wide trend. Or even a Dutch trend.

New Nordland? Is that you?? :p

At least Ny Nordland lives in Europe so he knows what it's like here.

The point he is making is that in many European countries (including my own home, the UK) national flags have been effectively "hijacked" by fascist and extreme right wing organisations. It means they can advocate their cod-philosophies yet hide behind the curtain of patriotism to avoid criticism..
This is a good reason for moderates to wear the flag, in order to claim it back.

More toxic run-off from the landfill that is "multiculturalism."

God willing, the Dutch people will arise and eliminate this stupidity before it metastasizes further.

If certain segments of the population are "offended," good. They can leave any time and won't be missed.

The foregoing applies to all other civilized nations who are afflicted with a similar problem.

Amen! I second, third, and fourth and fifth that! DOWN with politically correct "multiculturalism!"

You need to practice your reading comprehension mate. The flag is being banned, not being made optional.

Really? Banned? It was requested. A ban would mean that it was made against the rules. What were you saying about reading comprehension?

Amen! I second, third, and fourth and fifth that! DOWN with politically correct "multiculturalism!"



See that? Muslims are NOT the peace-loving, tolerant, open-minded paradigms that they, and their friends the news media, want you to think they are. At least not 90+ percent of them.

Really? 90+%? Support this claim please.


Yes Europe WILL "turn into saudi ****ing arabia" if they let them Islams have their way instead of standing up to them and not being afraid of "offending" them. And it's NOT paranoia if they really ARE out to get you.

Support this claim as well.

Israel is STILL being oppressed to this very day by Muslims, and by the most hypocritical governing body in the history of mankind, the United Nations. So YES, a pro-Israel demonatration most certainly IS a beacon of humanitarianism.

Ha. So basically anything anti-Muslim is a good thing and anything that protects Muslims is bad. We get it. How reasonable of you.

See that? Muslims are NOT the peace-loving, tolerant, open-minded paradigms that they, and their friends the news media, want you to think they are. At least not 90+ percent of them.

What are you talking about?

Yes Europe WILL "turn into saudi ****ing arabia" if they let them Islams have their way instead of standing up to them and not being afraid of "offending" them. And it's NOT paranoia if they really ARE out to get you.

Funny thing is, the "islams" aren't out to get anyone.

Israel is STILL being oppressed to this very day by Muslims, and by the most hypocritical governing body in the history of mankind, the United Nations. So YES, a pro-Israel demonatration most certainly IS a beacon of humanitarianism.

You'd think an oppressed country wouldn't be able to bomb the shit out of whoever they want to without any restraints placed on them whatsoever.

I'm going to refrain from commenting on this article because many people obviously think that I'm trollish for my conservative views. When will Europe wake up and see what is happening?

You are so Deep Kimchi it's not even funny anymore. When will you wake up and leave?

Not all Muslims are shying away from the culture of the lands in which they've chosen to live, I think you'll find. Far from it.
Tis true.

No it isn't. Why is it?
Freedom of expression.

A flag is, by definition, pretty much a way to discriminate one group from another. If you take away all of the flags, then you don't get that kind of discrimination going on.
That's a load of rot. Flags are a convenient way to celebrate one's people and culture. The implication of superiority is all in your head.

It says "This territory belongs to Denmark. Not to any foreigners. Just Denmark".
Again, all in your head.

America has the best integrated muslim population in the West.
Well, consider that Europe's Muslims are usually of a Middle-Eastern background while America's are of a south-east Asian background. Very different original cultures.

Well there's nothing intrinsically wrong with it at all... it's just that because they're a symbol of discrimination, a lot of fascist groups in Europe use their country's flag as a symbol in a negative discriminatory way.
It's a stupid generalisation to assume that all flag-flyers are fascists.

You're not even allowed to put up a flag in England (and possibly all of the UK, I'm unsure) without it being a special day, or you being a part of an embassy etc.

You can't just put one up on your house and especially not on a shop.
That's somewhat oppressive, and does not conform to the Harm Principle as laws in civilised countries should.

This was essentially a sort of "fuck off, I want jobs in my country, I am actually from this country, so I deserve them" sort of gesture.

These people also usually wore jackboots and had shaved heads, to show their militarist roots.

To this day, white people who wear military-type gear and have very short hair, and who show off the British / English flag are generally neo-nazis or of that ilk.
So you're saying "fuck the working class interests"?

Again, see my point about your stupid generalisations.

That may well be true in the US, but not so in the UK and, I believe, in most of Europe (although I can't really be sure outside of my shores, sorry).
I don't think so. In Ireland many people who aren't ultra-left, ultra-nationalist people would wear the flag, but then again my country was a victim, not a perpetrator of imperialism.

Incidentally, how do you feel about immigrants brandishing the flag of their home countries?

How do you feel about flag burning?

I agree with both the right to display a flag and the right to burn it.

(Don't burn it while wearing it, or in other unsafe conditions)

You are so Deep Kimchi it's not even funny anymore. When will you wake up and leave?
He's Deep Kimchi with a huge lobotomy.

snip

Totally agree.

Firstly where do muslims come into this? The article mentioned some Moroccans, but Moroccan=/=Muslim.


It is not the Muslims themselves that I hate. It is the religious system of theirs, at the very least the way it was spread prior to the late 20th century.

And you hate Christianity just as much? Or would you like to show how the history of Christianity's spread is that much "better" than Islam's.


I'll admit, there were times I thought certain things went "too far," but in retrospect, I agree with you. All free speech should be tolerated, regardless of how vile, tasteless, obscene, immoral, or offensive it may be.
Slander?


You're not even allowed to put up a flag in England (and possibly all of the UK, I'm unsure) without it being a special day, or you being a part of an embassy etc.

You can't just put one up on your house and especially not on a shop.

Yes you can (or at least I've seen an awful lot of places where it has been done and nothing's been to done to have it removed etc.

And you hate Christianity just as much? Or would you like to show how the history of Christianity's spread is that much "better" than Islam's.



They are quite similar, from an outsider's perspective.

All right, I apologize. I exaggerated. But i STILL believe more muslims than not, at least outside the US, are religious warmongers, though probably not 90% of them :(




NO, i did NOT say THAT. What I'm TRYING to say is that anything pro-Israel, not anti-Muslim, is a good thing, unless being pro-Israel automatically makes the thing in question anti-Muslim.

It is not the Muslims themselves that I hate. It is the religious system of theirs, at the very least the way it was spread prior to the late 20th century.

Uh-huh. I believe that. I believe this is specifically why you're willing to pretend like Muslims are different then they are. Good to know. So at least we know why you're not looking at this rationally. Thanks for being clear.

1 Wearing and banning are equally nonsensical
2 Did anyone ask the Moroccans' opinion?

Thats what they get for trying to push a Dutch flag on the poor Hollanders they should only have to fly the flag of Holland !

































:D

This is old...