NationStates Jolt Archive

I understand how people who live in neighborhoods with children feel about this issue but this violates at least 3 federal laws that i can think of off the top of my head.

http://wcbs880.com/pages/109983.php?contentType=4&contentId=225186

The law denies the homeowner the use of his home without government compensation. Violates Grandfather Clauses. It equally punishes his wife, who being retarded cant even be capable of even being culpable for any crimes of her own let alone to be punished for her husbands. This seams to be a case of a township that views rights of some above the rights of others because they for whatever reason are more or less desirable as people.

Instead of making laws that determine where sex offenders can and can't live, why don't we just do what everyone seems to want and make child rape punishable by life in prison without parole? Or exile? That's what all these laws are tiptoeing around--if we don't want them in our neighborhoods, then what we really want is for them to be in jail. Or is it okay for child rapists to live in some neighborhoods and not others?

The other side of this, however, is that we need to really define what should be considered a sex offense. An 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old partner is not child rape. It's silly, but it's not the sort of thing where a person ought to have to self-identify for the rest of his or her life no matter where he or she lives.

Instead of making laws that determine where sex offenders can and can't live, why don't we just do what everyone seems to want and make child rape punishable by life in prison without parole? Or exile? That's what all these laws are tiptoeing around--if we don't want them in our neighborhoods, then what we really want is for them to be in jail. Or is it okay for child rapists to live in some neighborhoods and not others?

The other side of this, however, is that we need to really define what should be considered a sex offense. An 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old partner is not child rape. It's silly, but it's not the sort of thing where a person ought to have to self-identify for the rest of his or her life no matter where he or she lives.

Agreed, if these people are not safe to live in our society why are they allowed back into it?

Instead of making laws that determine where sex offenders can and can't live, why don't we just do what everyone seems to want and make child rape punishable by life in prison without parole? Or exile? That's what all these laws are tiptoeing around--if we don't want them in our neighborhoods, then what we really want is for them to be in jail. Or is it okay for child rapists to live in some neighborhoods and not others?

The other side of this, however, is that we need to really define what should be considered a sex offense. An 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old partner is not child rape. It's silly, but it's not the sort of thing where a person ought to have to self-identify for the rest of his or her life no matter where he or she lives.

Life without parole, and, depending on the severity of the offense, Sex Offenders should be castrated.

Life without parole, and, depending on the severity of the offense, Sex Offenders should be castrated.

Why? hell the person that molested me did not even use his penis for the first year or so

Agreed, if these people are not safe to live in our society why are they allowed back into it?
The thing is, some of them are. If they undergo treatment willingly, they can be regular members of society again, given the chance, but the effect of the current legal system is that they're outcasts. Well, if we're going to make them outcasts, let's go all the way with it.

Why? hell the person that molested me did not even use his penis for the first year or so

And I was molested by a woman. How are you going to castrate that?

The thing is, some of them are. If they undergo treatment willingly, they can be regular members of society again, given the chance, but the effect of the current legal system is that they're outcasts. Well, if we're going to make them outcasts, let's go all the way with it.

Sorry thats what I ment if they are fit for society they should be allowed back in
If they are not fit they should have an indeffinate sentance

Why? hell the person that molested me did not even use his penis for the first year or so

Principal of the thing. Cut one or two off, it'll most definately convince people that pedophilia is not the best thing to practice.

Principal of the thing. Cut one or two off, it'll most definately convince people that pedophilia is not the best thing to practice.

The death penalty itself has not shown to really deter all the fucked up people that choose to murder what makes you think it is going to help these other screwed up individuals?

Your acting out of retrobution

They are acting out of pure impulse, usualy over time that impulse will win, its human nature.

Instead of making laws that determine where sex offenders can and can't live, why don't we just do what everyone seems to want and make child rape punishable by life in prison without parole? Or exile? That's what all these laws are tiptoeing around--if we don't want them in our neighborhoods, then what we really want is for them to be in jail. Or is it okay for child rapists to live in some neighborhoods and not others?

The other side of this, however, is that we need to really define what should be considered a sex offense. An 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old partner is not child rape. It's silly, but it's not the sort of thing where a person ought to have to self-identify for the rest of his or her life no matter where he or she lives.

Agreed, if these people are not safe to live in our society why are they allowed back into it?

I agree, too. We put murderers away for life without parole and society seems to hold sex offenders in the same light as those who commit murder, so why not have similar sentences? It would certainly eliminate the inconsistency of imprisoning sex offenders for however many years, releasing them, and then continuing to punish them after their release.

Sorry thats what I ment if they are fit for society they should be allowed back in
If they are not fit they should have an indeffinate sentance

There's currently a program, I believe in Washington state, where sex offenders are required to be treated while they're incarcerated, and if the treatment is deemed unsuccessful or the offender refuses to undergo it, the offender is committed to a facility until the treatment is completed. Theoretically, they could never be released. I'm cool with that.

But the flip side is that if the treatment is considered successful, you've got to let the person try to resume a normal life, and that means no restrictions on where he or she can live or work. Otherwise, you're just fucking with people needlessly. It's kinder to just keep them in jail.

I would like to know what his offense was before passing judgement on wether he should be moved, or allowed back into society.

There's currently a program, I believe in Washington state, where sex offenders are required to be treated while they're incarcerated, and if the treatment is deemed unsuccessful or the offender refuses to undergo it, the offender is committed to a facility until the treatment is completed. Theoretically, they could never be released. I'm cool with that.

But the flip side is that if the treatment is considered successful, you've got to let the person try to resume a normal life, and that means no restrictions on where he or she can live or work. Otherwise, you're just fucking with people needlessly. It's kinder to just keep them in jail.

Agreed ... (I actualy from the sound of it like that program)

If they are released they should be allowed back into society with freedoms intact (potentialy with some sort of observation after ... so maybe a bit light on the privacy end but other then that ... )

The death penalty itself has not shown to really deter all the fucked up people that choose to murder what makes you think it is going to help these other screwed up individuals?

Your acting out of retrobution

They are acting out of pure impulse, usualy over time that impulse will win, its human nature.

I'm changing my stance here, I know. But, in effect, the death penalty removes the dangerous individual from society permanently. Thats why its so beneficial to have a death penalty; it may not be a deterrant for some, but it is essential to remove the nutcases from society. True, prison does too, but its incredibly expensive to keep a person in prison for life without parole.

So, I change my mind. Don't cut them off. Just kill them.

I'm changing my stance here, I know. But, in effect, the death penalty removes the dangerous individual from society permanently. Thats why its so beneficial to have a death penalty; it may not be a deterrant for some, but it is essential to remove the nutcases from society. True, prison does too, but its incredibly expensive to keep a person in prison for life. Just kill them.

That is another benifit true, and not going to argue the virtues or lack thereof of the death penalty

But castration does not even have THAT benifit, such a large percentage of molestation does not involve his or her genitles to start with it only has a detterent effect

A questionable one

I'm changing my stance here, I know. But, in effect, the death penalty removes the dangerous individual from society permanently. Thats why its so beneficial to have a death penalty; it may not be a deterrant for some, but it is essential to remove the nutcases from society. True, prison does too, but its incredibly expensive to keep a person in prison for life without parole.

So, I change my mind. Don't cut them off. Just kill them.
Life without parole removes someone from society permanently for a lower cost and with no presumption of infallibility.

Principal of the thing. Cut one or two off, it'll most definately convince people that pedophilia is not the best thing to practice.

Yeah, like the death penalty is the greatest deterence for murder, right? :rolleyes:
Face it, a harsher punishment does nothing, all criminals believe they wont get caught.
An aquaintance of mine lost his wife, family, job and house in the two years it took to prove him innocent of child abuse. Good thing he wasnt castrated as well, huh?

Instead of making laws that determine where sex offenders can and can't live, why don't we just do what everyone seems to want and make child rape punishable by life in prison without parole? My position has always been that:
child rape should get you automatically a death senence.

My position has always been that:
child rape should get you automatically a death senence.

IMO I dont think anyone should be put to death by the State unless they themselves have taken a life. Its not a balanced punishment to fit the crime otherwise. If your just going to use some wierd scence of personal outrage at punishing crimes instead of the punishment properly fitting the crime them we might as well go back to mobs with torches.

As horrible as rape is, child, adult or otherwise, in some sence its a "recoverable" crime. The effects of rape, while not discounting its severity in any form, it can unquestionably be treated thru therapy drugs etc. Death is untreatable and irreversable.

Instead of making laws that determine where sex offenders can and can't live, why don't we just do what everyone seems to want and make child rape punishable by life in prison without parole? Or exile? That's what all these laws are tiptoeing around--if we don't want them in our neighborhoods, then what we really want is for them to be in jail. Or is it okay for child rapists to live in some neighborhoods and not others?

The other side of this, however, is that we need to really define what should be considered a sex offense. An 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old partner is not child rape. It's silly, but it's not the sort of thing where a person ought to have to self-identify for the rest of his or her life no matter where he or she lives.

I disagree with life in prison. People screw up sometimes, and should, after a hefty sentence, be released. If they screw up again though, life it should be. I'm for harsh, yet fair sentencing.

(In my opinion, if you're caught speeding three times in a year period, you should lose your license for a year. If you are caught driving drunk once, you should lose it for six months, and pay a $10,000 fine, etc...)

IMO I dont think anyone should be put to death by the State unless they themselves have taken a life. Its not a balanced punishment to fit the crime otherwise. If your just going to use some wierd scence of personal outrage at punishing crimes instead of the punishment properly fitting the crime them we might as well go back to mobs with torches.

As horrible as rape is, child, adult or otherwise, in some sence its a "recoverable" crime. The effects of rape, while not discounting its severity in any form, it can unquestionably be treated thru therapy drugs etc. Death is untreatable.

I'm opposed to the death penalty even in cases as extreme as, say, Timothy McVeigh, because the potential for executing an innocent is too high. I'll gladly trade the visceral pleasure of seeing a scumbag die for the knowledge that we haven't killed an innocent because of prosecutorial misconduct, financial inequities in the public defender system, racism, or simple mistakes.

I disagree with life in prison. People screw up sometimes, and should, after a hefty sentence, be released. If they screw up again though, life it should be. I'm for harsh, yet fair sentencing.

(In my opinion, if you're caught speeding three times in a year period, you should lose your license for a year. If you are caught driving drunk once, you should lose it for six months, and pay a $10,000 fine, etc...)

Child rape isn't the same, because it's usually a form of mental illness. I mean, I'm not even talking about the kind of stuff where you've got a much older person and a teenager going at it. Distasteful as that is to me, it's not the same as a person who fucks a two year old (and it happens, though it's fairly rare).

IMO I dont think anyone should be put to death (for rape)... Its not a balanced punishment to fit the crime otherwise. I do think if fits the crime.

I do think if fits the crime.

And if you get the wrong person? What then? Is that person just shit out of luck?

And if you get the wrong person? What then? Is that person just shit out of luck?

That is the fatal flaw in the death penalty, isn't it? If you throw an alleged sex offender in jail and then discover he or she was innocent, you can always let the person out. Their life's ruined, but they're still breathing.

Seems to me I read that it was actually more expensive to the state to execute someone than to imprison them, I guess because of legal fees for appeals and all. This was years ago and I may not be remembering it aright.

That is the fatal flaw in the death penalty, isn't it? If you throw an alleged sex offender in jail and then discover he or she was innocent, you can always let the person out. Their life's ruined, but they're still breathing.

Seems to me I read that it was actually more expensive to the state to execute someone than to imprison them, I guess because of legal fees for appeals and all. This was years ago and I may not be remembering it aright.You're right--it is more expensive once you factor in all the appeals, to which death penalty proponents often reply "yeah, we need to get rid of all that appealing and just fry their asses." I wasn't always this firm on it, but I've come to the conclusion that the death penalty is barbaric, no other way about it.

And if you get the wrong person? What then? Is that person just shit out of luck?it has to be DNA/medical evidence.
or phone/video evidence.

No more He-said/she-said bullshit.

I agree with long prison sentences, especially after the first conviction. I'd be willing to give just about anyone a second chance, but after that lock them up and throw away the key. I read someplace that the average child molester offends 32 times before he's caught. I'll see if I can find the stats again.

it has to be DNA/medical evidence.
or phone/video evidence.

No more He-said/she-said bullshit.

Just saying that, isnt going to make it so. The law does not operate how we want it too, so we must always be very careful of what punishments we allow it to dish out.

it has to be DNA/medical evidence.
or phone/video evidence.

No more He-said/she-said bullshit.
And that can't be faked by cops or a DA with a grudge? It's just not worth it to me, not when you've got the option of life without parole.

I understand how people who live in neighborhoods with children feel about this issue but this violates at least 3 federal laws that i can think of off the top of my head.

http://wcbs880.com/pages/109983.php?contentType=4&contentId=225186

The law denies the homeowner the use of his home without government compensation. Violates Grandfather Clauses. It equally punishes his wife, who being retarded cant even be capable of even being culpable for any crimes of her own let alone to be punished for her husbands. This seams to be a case of a township that views rights of some above the rights of others because they for whatever reason are more or less desirable as people.

Can't see the article, as my school had the brilliant idea to block news :rolleyes:, but how can you violate Grandfather Clauses. Wasn't that the thing that said if your grandpappy voted, you can? Haven't we gotten rid of those?

I think child-molestors should be given electro-shock therapy to implant in their mind a disgust of children, so that just the thought of a child would make them queazy, and being in the presence of one would make them want to wretch. And there's no doubt that it wouldn't work, Britain did the same thing to homosexuals in the 1950s, even today there are verterans from that practice whose sexuality as a whole is still completely extinguished.

Once that's done they can then become productive members of society, and would regulate themselves to stay away from children.

Can't see the article, as my school had the brilliant idea to block news :rolleyes:, but how can you violate Grandfather Clauses. Wasn't that the thing that said if your grandpappy voted, you can? Haven't we gotten rid of those?

No. Grandfather clauses are parts of law that basically say that if you own item A which later becomes illegal, you are allowed to keep said item but can't buy any more. In this case, the guy was living there legally for years, a law was passed saying sex offenders couldn't live nearby, and now they're saying he has to move because it wasn't "grandfathered".

First off, there's no such thing as a well intentioned anti-pedophile law. There are well intentioned anti-child molester laws out there, but that's another issue for another day.

I agree with what has been the majority sentiment here, as it has been one I've been speaking in favor of for some time now. Registration is a compromise in which the worst aspects of both sides of the arguement lose, badly. If you're going to punish someone, fine. If you're going to imprison someone or even execute them, fine. But once you let them out of prison and back into society, that's a declaration that they're not a danger to society anymore. If that isn't the case, and you still think they're dangerous, WHAT THE HELL DID YOU LET THEM OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE FOR?

Life without parole, and, depending on the severity of the offense, Sex Offenders should be castrated.

and when exonerated with dna 12 years later


we use your cock to put one back on?

I think child-molestors should be given electro-shock therapy to implant in their mind a disgust of children, so that just the thought of a child would make them queazy, and being in the presence of one would make them want to wretch. And there's no doubt that it wouldn't work, Britain did the same thing to homosexuals in the 1950s, even today there are verterans from that practice whose sexuality as a whole is still completely extinguished.

Umm.... you'v openly said it wouldn't work. So why would we waste our time?

My position has always been that:
child rape should get you automatically a death senence.
I agree that child rapists are fully deserving of death, but I still don't think that it would be a good idea to pass death sentences for those crimes. If you're going to execute it should be for murder. If the death penalty is introduced for the rape and a paedophile rapes a child, then they will be more likely to kill the child to hide the crime. If you only execute when the child is murdered, then you will at least give the paedophile an incentive to let the child live.

And I must admit, I would have thought someone as far left as you would have been staunchly anti-death penalty.

And that can't be faked by cops or a DA with a grudge? It's just not worth it to me, not when you've got the option of life without parole.If a Cop/DA has that big of a Grudge against you.. You are fucked anyways.. You better take the first plane to Brazil.

My position has always been that:
child rape should get you automatically a death senence.

Only problem with that is I would think it would entice the rapists to kill their victims so they can't testify.

Life without parole, and, depending on the severity of the offense, Sex Offenders should be castrated.

thats really fucked up and sick. you would be creating even more of a problem then. they'll become more violent with the frustration.
killing them is fine with me.

As horrible as rape is, child, adult or otherwise, in some sence its a "recoverable" crime. The effects of rape, while not discounting its severity in any form, it can unquestionably be treated thru therapy drugs etc. Death is untreatable and irreversable.

wrong. it can leave made be , how you say, "really fucked up in the head". with leads to more crime, violence and more child abuse. so thats why you have to get in at the root.
public hanging gets my vote.

wrong. it can leave made be , how you say, "really fucked up in the head". with leads to more crime, violence and more child abuse. so thats why you have to get in at the root.
public hanging gets my vote.

Really fucked up in the head, despite unquestionably being a bad thing still isnt being dead. And being fucked up in the head can certainly be curable. Soldiers that go thru incredible stresses like having thier friends explode and splatter all over them get fucked up in the head too. They are treated and can live a reasonably normal life. And have sucessfully done so by the many hundreds of thousands. They certianly arnt running around communities being harbringers of crime violence and child abuse because they had very stressful and very horrible things happen to them. Its not a good thing to have happen any way you look at it, but i cant see how the punishment should be the death penalty when the victim is still a functioning living person with future potential.

You know, everyone here is making one hell of an assumption. That this guy's a pedophile.

The article doesn't say that. It says he's a sex offender. For all we know, that could mean he was convicted of statutory for being with a 15 year old back when he was 16. He's now in his 70s.

The anti-pedophile witch-hunts need to be stopped.

Only problem with that is I would think it would entice the rapists to kill their victims so they can't testify.once upon a time.. these criminals used to rape the women and leave.

Now they kill them after the rape.

from the Criminal viewpoint there is no difference between Life-in-jail and Gas-chamber.

So I ask you again.. why not Death sentence?