NationStates Jolt Archive

A list of articles that recently came out, including a translation of a recent Spiegel article I hinted at a few days ago in another thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=502636) (Jello Biafra might be interested):

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,443075,00.html
Is Germany Falling into Poverty?

A new study claims that around 8 percent of all Germans live under the poverty line. Some believe the country is giving birth to an underclass that, unlike the impoverished of previous generations, has completely given up on the future. It's the fiery political debate of the week in Berlin.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,442990,00.html
A German Underclass? What Underclass?

On cue for World Poverty Day, a controversy has erupted in Berlin over one politician's use of one word -- "underclass" -- as if no one in the German government had quite realized that poor people existed. The truth is that poverty has existed here for years, but recently it has been getting worse.

And especially:
War for Wealth (http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,k-6997,00.html)
Never mind the headings, read the articles

Now, you can certainly argue that the new poverty numbers in Germany are to a large degree due to the horrible way in which the government spends its welfare budget. But nonetheless, the numbers are part of a larger trend - globalisation invariably forces wages for various jobs to become the same all over the world, as the national labour markets merge into one global labour market.

Personally, I welcome the idea of a globalised world. I see myself as a service provider who has to be better than his competitors to get the best price for his labour. But many don't share this view. They may not have the confidence, they may not share my philosophy, they might not even have heard of it at all. Many people here don't get themselves the skills that really move them beyond what a labourer in China could do.

So, we can blame them personally, but that isn't going to solve the problem - for a problem there is:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,443063,00.html
Right-wing Violence on the Rise

This year has seen 20 percent more attacks by right-wing extremists than the same period last year -- and more of those incidents were violent. Political pressure is growing to address right-wing extremism as a dangerous trend rather than isolated incidents.

So, how do you guys think we should react to all of this? What can government do? What do people have to do themselves? And what will the world look like in 30 years or so?

The future looks rather dim, but as always, we can't predict the future now, can we?

Hmmm, bump?

Now, you can certainly argue that the new poverty numbers in Germany are to a large degree due to the horrible way in which the government spends its welfare budget. But nonetheless, the numbers are part of a larger trend - globalisation invariably forces wages for various jobs to become the same all over the world, as the national labour markets merge into one global labour market.

Personally, I welcome the idea of a globalised world. I see myself as a service provider who has to be better than his competitors to get the best price for his labour. But many don't share this view. They may not have the confidence, they may not share my philosophy, they might not even have heard of it at all. Many people here don't get themselves the skills that really move them beyond what a labourer in China could do.

I agree.

So, we can blame them personally, but that isn't going to solve the problem - for a problem there is:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,443063,00.html


So, how do you guys think we should react to all of this? What can government do? What do people have to do themselves? And what will the world look like in 30 years or so?

Well, the main German economic depression I can think of from history lead to the rise of the nazis and WWII... so I can't say this exactly thrills me.

What do people have to do? Work, innovate, educate. The government? Well, as you said, that welfare thing is part of the problem. If you give money to people for not having enough money, eventually no one has real incentive to get money since someone will just hand it to them. I know I'm exagerrating a bit, and not everyone on welfare doesn't need it. But still, government spending in general is incredibly high in many western nations, and that can't be a good thing.

The world in 30 years? I really don't like to imagine that. Dystopias of all sorts come to mind.

A list of articles that recently came out, including a translation of a recent Spiegel article I hinted at a few days ago in another thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=502636) (Jello Biafra might be interested):
Now, you can certainly argue that the new poverty numbers in Germany are to a large degree due to the horrible way in which the government spends its welfare budget. But nonetheless, the numbers are part of a larger trend - globalisation invariably forces wages for various jobs to become the same all over the world, as the national labour markets merge into one global labour market.Ah, thanks for thinking of me. :)

Personally, I welcome the idea of a globalised world. I see myself as a service provider who has to be better than his competitors to get the best price for his labour. But many don't share this view. They may not have the confidence, they may not share my philosophy, they might not even have heard of it at all. Many people here don't get themselves the skills that really move them beyond what a labourer in China could do.I support free trade, but not exclusively. Protectionism can be good, but I think in this case something like TAFTA would work.
You might be right about the welfare budget, I'm not certain why they're putting newly arrived immigrants onto welfare. With that said, I wish I could say that the U.S.'s poverty rate was as low as 8%.

So, how do you guys think we should react to all of this? What can government do? What do people have to do themselves? And what will the world look like in 30 years or so?I do have to agree that the rise of fascism in Europe again is something to worry about. Have people forgotten history already?
Perhaps some sort of hate crime legislation would work to combat the problem?
Also, I think getting tougher on crime would help.
As far as 30 years from now goes...I have to agree with Greater Trostia, so many dystopias come to mind.

It seems to me that globalisation is more of an ideological thing - something that governments pursue for the sake of ideology while ignoring the social costs. It's always easy to blame people (Sort of reminds me of the Victorian era where people were blamed for being poor) for getting left behind in the global marketplace, but there's only so much people can do. One of the common myths among the middle classes is that people can somehow snap their fingers and magic up the skills to compete in our glorious globalised society. I think we need to face facts, no society can rely on an economy solely based on the concept of 'knowledge'. It might suit the middle classes, but they don't care about how it effects the rest of society as long as they're tucked safely away in their nice neighbourhoods while not having to face the consequences of the society that they have helped create. Try confronting them head on with the consequences and we may see things change.

I think the west urgently needs to get over their love affair with the unrestricted free market. It's easy to measure the success of a society by a load of figures on a piece of paper, but this obviously doesn't take into account the social disintegraton of western society, something that I've seen all too much in my own country. The thing I would most want to see is an economic policy that is more tied to a social policy which works towards ensuring a decent life for its people. The current free trade policies have been a complete faliure on that front.

You know, we've almost managed to integrate the world economy to the point where it was prior to the First World War. Hell, we're almost at the same point we were 100 years ago. Am I being absurdist for being scared by that fact, not the economic integration bit, but the similarity in historical circumstance?

We've even got an analog for the Balkan Powder Keg: East Asia.

You've got poverty at 8% and you're concerned? We're currently at 12.6% and that's without some of the same basic services, like health insurance, that your government provides. I'd love it if the US were in that situation.