NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm writing this as a male college student. I do not know of more than a handful of girls who do not fall into this description, nor do I know any girl who sees nothing wrong with their relationship dynamics with each other. Furthermore, these views are easily validated by any simple search on google for "women" and "backstabbing."

Why are women so duplicitous towards each other? Why do they spy on each other, talk behind the back of each other, slander and defame each other, yet still greet each other with the most false of smiles and hugs, with full knowledge that the other could pass for their worst enemy? Why will women furthermore put up with shit from each other, yet say and do nothing directly? Why will women resort to intrigue against one another that would put John Grisham to shame?

My experience has shown me that when men have a problem with one another, they will deal with it upfront with little to no cloak-and-daggery occuring. This is not to say that men are immune from this, but seem to have much less of an inclination for it. Hell, a given room of girls seems to have as much infighting as an entire wing of men!

Just to give an extreme example: two years ago, a female decided she did not like her room mate. So, rather than deal with the problem directly, she contaiminated her roommate's shampoo, conditioner, mouth wash, and contact lens solution with tilex, again, for the sole reason that she was unhappy with her roommate. While extreme, the amount of gossip that women will tell about their so-called friends goes around is just absurd!

So why? Why will women slander and libel a person beyond belief behind their back, yet greet them with a smile the next time they see them? Why?

Methinks you need to read this thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=503396

Also, your sig is too long. Signatures are limited to 8 lines.

Like most men, I don't claim to understand the opposite sex. My best guess is that they do that because it's not socially acceptable for a woman to give another woman a black eye or slam her head against the nearest wall.

:rolleyes: Perhaps you need to meet more women.

:rolleyes: Perhaps you need to meet more women.

Likely. But that leaves the question, why do the women he knows backstab each other.

Likely. But that leaves the question, why do the women he knows backstab each other.

Because the women he knows are bitches? I also question his description of men--they're as backstabbing and duplicitous as any woman, if not worse.

I'll edit my sig accordingly if a moderater agrees with you (probably by making ted steven's quote 1 line instead of 2).

As for some backup for my question (and no, I did not read the generalization thread):

http://www.lifetimetv.com/reallife/relation/features/backstabbed.html
http://www.amazon.com/Womans-Inhumanity-Woman-Phyllis-Chesler/dp/1560253517
http://www.bluesuitmom.com/career/management/womenhelp.html
http://www.usatoday.com/educate/college/careers/Car_foc/cf12-30-05.htm

Like most men, I don't claim to understand the opposite sex. My best guess is that they do that because it's not socially acceptable for a woman to give another woman a black eye or slam her head against the nearest wall.

That dosen't stop them from confronting the person

As a woman, I have this much to say: we have developed beyond the need for brute force and will only resort to such tactics, should our more mature methods fail.

My experience has shown me that when men have a problem with one another, they will deal with it upfront with little to no cloak-and-daggery occuring. This is not to say that men are immune from this, but seem to have much less of an inclination for it.


Nazz: the problem with this is?

As a woman, I have this much to say: we have developed beyond the need for brute force and will only resort to such tactics, should our more mature methods fail.

Besides, poison is much classier than just beating the tar out of someone. And anyway, suppose I just did my nails? :p

Furthermore, these views are easily validated by any simple search on google for "women" and "backstabbing."
This actually made me laugh. Because, you know, if it's on the internet it must be true.

Likely. But that leaves the question, why do the women he knows backstab each other.
Dinaverg! :) Maybe the women he knows are just all petty and superficial? I don't know, can't really answer without knowing anything about the women themselves.

I'll edit my sig accordingly if a moderater agrees with you (probably by making ted steven's quote 1 line instead of 2).

Actually, using quote marks instead of qutote boxes would save a lot of space.

Nazz: the problem with this is?

I think it's painfully naive, frankly. Men will fuck each other just as readily as women will--it's a personality thing, not a gender thing.

Because the women he knows are bitches? I also question his description of men--they're as backstabbing and duplicitous as any woman, if not worse.

Hmm, fair enough.

Dinaverg! :) Maybe the women he knows are just all petty and superficial? I don't know, can't really answer without knowing anything about the women themselves.

Rameria! :D Aye...Maybe it's a local thing. Mar, where do you go to college?

I'm writing this as a male college student. I do not know of more than a handful of girls who do not fall into this description, nor do I know any girl who sees nothing wrong with their relationship dynamics with each other. Furthermore, these views are easily validated by any simple search on google for "women" and "backstabbing."

Why are women so duplicitous towards each other? Why do they spy on each other, talk behind the back of each other, slander and defame each other, yet still greet each other with the most false of smiles and hugs, with full knowledge that the other could pass for their worst enemy? Why will women furthermore put up with shit from each other, yet say and do nothing directly? Why will women resort to intrigue against one another that would put John Grisham to shame?

My experience has shown me that when men have a problem with one another, they will deal with it upfront with little to no cloak-and-daggery occuring. This is not to say that men are immune from this, but seem to have much less of an inclination for it. Hell, a given room of girls seems to have as much infighting as an entire wing of men!

Just to give an extreme example: two years ago, a female decided she did not like her room mate. So, rather than deal with the problem directly, she contaiminated her roommate's shampoo, conditioner, mouth wash, and contact lens solution with tilex, again, for the sole reason that she was unhappy with her roommate. While extreme, the amount of gossip that women will tell about their so-called friends goes around is just absurd!

So why? Why will women slander and libel a person beyond belief behind their back, yet greet them with a smile the next time they see them? Why?

Wait till ye start working with them.....As to why - There is no "why". C'est la guerre.

My experience has shown me that men are as likely to deal with problems up front as they are to be cutthroat. I do not know of a single woman who will deal with a problem they have with another women up front if they can avoid doing so. Whether this means live and let be or spreding rumors/gossip, so be it. Even the USA Today article agrees with some of this (after interviewing a female entrepreneur), and attributes it to how women deal with competition. Again, this does not apply to all women, just a really, really large precentage of it.

I do not think it is naive, but more acknowledging an unpleasant bit of reality.

My experience has shown me that men are as likely to deal with problems up front as they are to be cutthroat. I do not know of a single woman who will deal with a problem they have with another women up front if they can avoid doing so. Whether this means live and let be or spreding rumors/gossip, so be it. Even the USA Today article agrees with some of this (after interviewing a female entrepreneur), and attributes it to how women deal with competition. Again, this does not apply to all women, just a really, really large precentage of it.

I do not think it is naive, but more acknowledging an unpleasant bit of reality.

Then all I can tell you--and I don't mean this in an ugly way--is that either you don't have much in the way of experience or you're only seeing what you want to see.

My experience has shown me that men are as likely to deal with problems up front as they are to be cutthroat. I do not know of a single woman who will deal with a problem they have with another women up front if they can avoid doing so. Whether this means live and let be or spreding rumors/gossip, so be it. Even the USA Today article agrees with some of this (after interviewing a female entrepreneur), and attributes it to how women deal with competition. Again, this does not apply to all women, just a really, really large precentage of it.

I do not think it is naive, but more acknowledging an unpleasant bit of reality.
*shakes your hand* There, you've met one woman who (mostly) deals with problems up front regardless of whether or not it's avoidable. Congratulations.

I think it's painfully naive, frankly. Men will fuck each other just as readily as women will--it's a personality thing, not a gender thing.

you mean being a bitch/asshole isn't genetic?

women and men both fuck eachother over on a regular basis. I've watched friends and enemies do it. We all do it at some point, usually because it is either easier, or has greater benefits. Hell, I hated my roommate last year, so I chose to ignore him when he would talk to me. I could have easily have just said "I think you're a racist, bigoted prick who has no sense of human decency", but that would have ended with me wanting to kill him, and still having to live with him for a year. It was both easier and more beneficial for me to just ignore him, even when directly addressed (IE, when he would ask me a question, even as simple as "did you see my ipod", I would put on my headphones and pretend he wasn't there.)

Is it stupid? yes. But we all do it. We just tend to see it in others more than ourselves.

generally, I'll handle things upfront. I'm not nearly good enough at acting to hide when I dislike someone or their actions. But there are situations where, given my options, being passive agressive is better than being assertive or agressive.

Besides, poison is much classier than just beating the tar out of someone. And anyway, suppose I just did my nails? :p
Exactly. Plus, it leaves you lookin' nice, even if you've committed a crime or two. At least you didn't take a few hits back in the process.

you mean being a bitch/asshole isn't genetic?
women and men both fuck eachother over on a regular basis. I've watched friends and enemies do it. We all do it at some point, usually because it is either easier, or has greater benefits. Hell, I hated my roommate last year, so I chose to ignore him when he would talk to me. I could have easily have just said "I think you're a racist, bigoted prick who has no sense of human decency", but that would have ended with me wanting to kill him, and still having to live with him for a year. It was both easier and more beneficial for me to just ignore him, even when directly addressed (IE, when he would ask me a question, even as simple as "did you see my ipod", I would put on my headphones and pretend he wasn't there.)


Yes, but you didn't go out and tell everyone you knew and everyone he knew that he was a racist, bigoted prick with no sense of human decency, and go out of your way to ensure that your roommate was hated by all. And you didn't greet him with a smile and a handshake every time you saw him either.

Yes, but you didn't go out and tell everyone you knew and everyone he knew that he was a racist, bigoted prick with no sense of human decency, and go out of your way to ensure that your roommate was hated by all. And you didn't greet him with a smile and a handshake every time you saw him either.

Well, I was saved by the fact that he didn't have any friends, and all of my friends hated him. that was in no small part because of the stories I shared with them. He was racist. He was bigoted. He was a prick. He had no sense of human decency. And I made it well known among my friends that those were the exact reasons I hated him.

Granted, it wasn't my fault he was an ass. I didn't have to tell people stories to make them hate him...everyone already did. But the stories did build upon it.

Yes, but you didn't go out and tell everyone you knew and everyone he knew that he was a racist, bigoted prick with no sense of human decency, and go out of your way to ensure that your roommate was hated by all. And you didn't greet him with a smile and a handshake every time you saw him either.

As someone said up above, wait until you're out in the working world. You'll meet plenty of men who will more than make up for your not having met back-stabbers yet. Heck, you'll probably be working for them.

Just to give you an idea: my girlfriend's suitemate complained to my roommate behind my back about stuff that she heard from another girl about me/my girlfriend (which I might add, wasn't true). Thats the kinda catty shit i'm talking about. I'm also curious about how i'm going to deal with this in the future (I.e. 3 of the 5 members of a project team are obsessed with bring each other down, and make competition where there is none personal).

I'm writing this as a male college student. I do not know of more than a handful of girls who do not fall into this description, nor do I know any girl who sees nothing wrong with their relationship dynamics with each other. Furthermore, these views are easily validated by any simple search on google for "women" and "backstabbing."

Why are women so duplicitous towards each other? Why do they spy on each other, talk behind the back of each other, slander and defame each other, yet still greet each other with the most false of smiles and hugs, with full knowledge that the other could pass for their worst enemy? Why will women furthermore put up with shit from each other, yet say and do nothing directly? Why will women resort to intrigue against one another that would put John Grisham to shame?

My experience has shown me that when men have a problem with one another, they will deal with it upfront with little to no cloak-and-daggery occuring. This is not to say that men are immune from this, but seem to have much less of an inclination for it. Hell, a given room of girls seems to have as much infighting as an entire wing of men!

Just to give an extreme example: two years ago, a female decided she did not like her room mate. So, rather than deal with the problem directly, she contaiminated her roommate's shampoo, conditioner, mouth wash, and contact lens solution with tilex, again, for the sole reason that she was unhappy with her roommate. While extreme, the amount of gossip that women will tell about their so-called friends goes around is just absurd!

So why? Why will women slander and libel a person beyond belief behind their back, yet greet them with a smile the next time they see them? Why?






You my freind, need to read the book "Tripping the Prom Queen" IT IS FANTASTIC! it has all ALL your answers in there. It goes into the phycology of it all. The compotition and war that goes on between women, its just as bad or even worse than between men to become Alpha.

*shakes your hand* There, you've met one woman who (mostly) deals with problems up front regardless of whether or not it's avoidable. Congratulations.

*shakes his hand* Make that two, darling. ;)

I guess, as a guy I'm pretty duplicitous...I was living with several bitches last year, and I'd bitch to my friends about them. Venting off steam to my friends was my way of dealing with it instead of bringing these issues up the instigators directly. I don't think it was bad of me, I'm a very non-confrontational guy, I prefer to think of myself as having manners. I was polite and civil to these girls I was living with all the time, bitching about it was how I coped with it. They probably did the same to me, it doesn't really bother me.

As a woman, I have this much to say: we have developed beyond the need for brute force and will only resort to such tactics, should our more mature methods fail.

Mature? I don't consider completly ignoring a problem through lying and backstabbing mature. In fact I consider it rather cowardly for them not confront their problems.

I guess, as a guy I'm pretty duplicitous...I was living with several bitches last year, and I'd bitch to my friends about them. Venting off steam to my friends was my way of dealing with it instead of bringing these issues up the instigators directly. I don't think it was bad of me, I'm a very non-confrontational guy, I prefer to think of myself as having manners. I was polite and civil to these girls I was living with all the time, bitching about it was how I coped with it. They probably did the same to me, it doesn't really bother me.

But you didn't go out of your way to ruin their lives through rumors and lies.

*waves hand*
and here's another female who doesn't backstab or gossip, isn't manipulative or two-faced and hates people, male and female (i know plenty of guys who do all the things you mentioned), that are.

you really can't use your own experience and a search on google to somehow validate calling half the population back-stabbing, two faced, manipulative, cowardly etc. it's plain stupid for one thing and pointless for another.

seriously, even people who admit their generalisations don't always apply somehow seem to think they're useful in the real world.

wouldn't a better question be: why do people backstab each other? then you can explain this behaviour of the women you are unfortunate enough to know, you can take into account this behaviour of any females and males you are fortunate enough not to know, and not have to assume something about millions of other people.



EDIT: just as a point.... why not talk to the people who are doing this, rather than bitching on here? follow your own preachings and deal with it in a healthier way rather than moaning on an internet forum and making ridiculous accusations.

Mature? I don't consider completly ignoring a problem through lying and backstabbing mature. In fact I consider it rather cowardly for them not confront their problems.
I think she was saying she'd only resort to "lying and backstabbing" if mature methods (such as talking about the problem) didn't work.
I hope so anyway.

Either way, both violence and spiteful bitchiness are immature and something I stay away from as much as I can and have never engaged in.

My GF isn't two-faced or manipulative either. She's very direct and doesn't play games, though she does gossip on occasion. So do I.

I find it amusing at times. Especially when someone is tryin 2 do tht 2 me. Ud b amazed what a public confrontation will do. Really effective at their workplace 2. Add tht 2 the rumours tht were spread hours b4 and they neva fuck with me again. A good rumour 2 use (works gr8 4 both sexes) is "I hear *insert name here* has a sodomy fetish. Was talkin 2 their ex bf/gf and they told me wat *insert name here* made them do". In case any of you are wonderin im a guy who has learnt 2 play their games. The best part of it all is when they break and u hav a private word (no record or evidence) 2 them and tell them neva 2 fuck with u again

*snip*

Male college students: Why do they think they can make accurate generalizations about the behavior of several billion people on the basis of their experience with a few girls? ;)

Seriously, some people of both genders are asses. Some people of both genders express their assholishness by slandering and backstabbing people. In my experience, at least, men do this just as much as women do.

(Oh, and you can add me to the list of non-slandering women. I think it's going to be a pretty long list...)

*waves hand*
and here's another female who doesn't backstab or gossip, isn't manipulative or two-faced and hates people, male and female (i know plenty of guys who do all the things you mentioned), that are.

you really can't use your own experience and a search on google to somehow validate calling half the population back-stabbing, two faced, manipulative, cowardly etc. it's plain stupid for one thing and pointless for another.

seriously, even people who admit their generalisations don't always apply somehow seem to think they're useful in the real world.

wouldn't a better question be: why do people backstab each other? then you can explain this behaviour of the women you are unfortunate enough to know, you can take into account this behaviour of any females and males you are fortunate enough not to know, and not have to assume something about millions of other people.



EDIT: just as a point.... why not talk to the people who are doing this, rather than bitching on here? follow your own preachings and deal with it in a healthier way rather than moaning on an internet forum and making ridiculous accusations.

In the interest of defending myself, I'm basing this on what more than a few girls have told me. On top of that, the girls that I know who have confronted their gossipers have found that the gossip/backbiting only changed to the fact that they had reacted negativley to gossip. I'd furthermore say that the plethora of well-selling books on the topic is evidence that there is some truth to it.

Nice of you to generalize, bozo. :rolleyes:

I don't gossip or backstab, yet I'm female. It must be the idiots you know. I hate gossip and backstabbing and manipulation, having been a victim of the last one far to many times and a subject of the first. :mad:

Because the women he knows are bitches? I also question his description of men--they're as backstabbing and duplicitous as any woman, if not worse.

No, they aren't. Speaking as a male, male feuds are much simpler-I hate you, you hate me. Female Feuds involve pawns and dark machinations. This is why I prefer to be male.

men dont realize this but every time a woman backstabs another woman, her breasts grow bigger.

Allow me to join the chorus of women who like to look their enemies in the eye while we thrust home the knife.

I've had run-ins with both men and women who have tried to sabotage me the way the OP describes. (I mean the gossip and character assassination, not poisoning. Maybe I don't know psychos, or maybe I'm just more careful with my shampoo, but nobody has yet tried to poison me.) All such conflicts ended by me straightforwardly confronting my enemy in public and forcing them to retract and back off.

But this doesn't mean I can't play the game.

An ex-boyfriend (i.e. a male) once tried to ruin my reputation with gossip, and I got back at him by being extravagantly friendly towards him in public, especially in front of the people he was trying to turn against me. Result: Those people came to ME to ask, "What's going on between you two?", which put me in the superior position of being able to explain it to them. Hehe. He learned to keep his mouth shut pretty quickly.

men dont realize this but every time a woman backstabs another woman, her breasts grow bigger.
Bitch! Shut up! :D

*gives Ashmoria two sisterhood demerits for giving away secrets*

Bitch! Shut up! :D

*gives Ashmoria two sisterhood demerits for giving away secrets*

oops i shouldnta oughter said that...

oops i shouldnta oughter said that...

Now we'll have to come up with a new incomprehensible behavior to keep them guessing about our boobs. Honestly, Ashmoria... tsk.

Now we'll have to come up with a new incomprehensible behavior to keep them guessing about our boobs. Honestly, Ashmoria... tsk.

hey its not like i told them the real reason we go to the restroom in groups.

hey its not like i told them the real reason we go to the restroom in groups.

Quiet you...

If you think women are bad, you should see gay men......


:eek:

It's because women aren't the ones in power in this culture. We know that we are all competing for a limited number of resources (jobs, pay, benefits, grades, men, attention and consideration from superiors/significant others/coworkers/children, etc.) so we have to play dirty.

However, we don't just play dirty with our fellow ladies...we're playing dirty with YOU MEN, TOO. I'd start testing the pH balance of your shampoo if I were you.

hey its not like i told them the real reason we go to the restroom in groups.

Sorry! My fault.

No, they aren't. Speaking as a male, male feuds are much simpler-I hate you, you hate me. Female Feuds involve pawns and dark machinations. This is why I prefer to be male.

So...you would rather be the dumb one?

I'm writing this as a male college student. I do not know of more than a handful of girls who do not fall into this description, nor do I know any girl who sees nothing wrong with their relationship dynamics with each other. Furthermore, these views are easily validated by any simple search on google for "women" and "backstabbing."

Why are women so duplicitous towards each other? Why do they spy on each other, talk behind the back of each other, slander and defame each other, yet still greet each other with the most false of smiles and hugs, with full knowledge that the other could pass for their worst enemy? Why will women furthermore put up with shit from each other, yet say and do nothing directly? Why will women resort to intrigue against one another that would put John Grisham to shame?

My experience has shown me that when men have a problem with one another, they will deal with it upfront with little to no cloak-and-daggery occuring. This is not to say that men are immune from this, but seem to have much less of an inclination for it. Hell, a given room of girls seems to have as much infighting as an entire wing of men!

Just to give an extreme example: two years ago, a female decided she did not like her room mate. So, rather than deal with the problem directly, she contaiminated her roommate's shampoo, conditioner, mouth wash, and contact lens solution with tilex, again, for the sole reason that she was unhappy with her roommate. While extreme, the amount of gossip that women will tell about their so-called friends goes around is just absurd!

So why? Why will women slander and libel a person beyond belief behind their back, yet greet them with a smile the next time they see them? Why?

Why do guys fuck their best friend's girlfriend?

By junior high school, I had decided that, yes, girls are conniving and untrustworthy. Even now, most of my friends are guys. Even though, as I have matured, I've found most girls have also.

Why do guys fuck their best friend's girlfriend?
Alcohol, usually. That, severe sex deprivation, and/or the fleeting belief that their best friend won't find out.

That said, back in my junior year of college, I had a few roommates who did the whole passive/aggressive thing. I'd find my alarm clock unplugged, dishes hidden, etc etc. I used to be part of an a capella group; everybody talked behind everybody else's backs all the time.

On the other side of things, back around the end of high school, I had an archrival. Our rivalry consisted primarily of pointedly not talking to one another, and occasionally expressing our deep lack of respect for one another's beings in seemingly scripted theatric monologues - a far cry from the involved hurtful dramas I've seen played out before.

As a woman, I have this much to say: we have developed beyond the need for brute force and will only resort to such tactics, should our more mature methods fail.

This does not seem to always be the case, or possibly I have misidentified the gender of some of the people I have seen fist fighting.

Why do guys fuck their best friend's girlfriend?

Is this a right or a privilege? Ive missed out if it is a right!
Are women immune to fucking their best friemd's boyfriends?
What if 2 couples are also 2 pairs of best friends? Wont this lead to complications?

Allow me to join the chorus of women who like to look their enemies in the eye while we thrust home the knife.

That, my friend, is a brilliant line.

The correlation posited isnt that far-fetched, it actually matches up with the findings of some research I've previously come across into differences between group dynamics in all boy and all girl 'play-groups'.
The researchers found that boys had poor conflict avoidance skills while the girls excelled in this area. Boys conversely were observed to excell in reconciliation, whilst girls were observed to be comparitively very poor at reconciliation.

So the group that fought the most was best at making up and the group most able to make up fought the most.
At the same time the group that avoided conflict the most were least able to make up, and the group least able to make up, most avoided open conflict.

What we dont know is why boys engaged more often in conflict and had superior reconciliation skills and why girls had superior conflict avoidance skills and often failed to reconcile on the infrequent occassons when open conflict did break out amongst them.

There appears to be a correlation that we might see simply as 'ability to reconcile goes with a propensity to fight' and 'ability to avoid fight goes with a propensity to sustain hostility after a falling out'. However I think it's more useful to see failure to reconcile as punitive, and to see then that the tendency to avoid a conflict is correlated with an increase in the punitive effects of engaging in open conflict.

If this is true we would expect more backstabbing, underhanded covert aggression, and other hostile behaviours that do not necessitate an open conflict, where there is a greater perception (on the part of a person) that the result of engaging in open conflict will be punitive, that is contrary to their interests. (In the case of the boy and girl play groups, for boys, reconcilation occured quickly, play resumed, and relationships returned to their pre-conflict status, whereas for girls open conflict almost inevitably resulted in the termination of both play and friendly relationships).
So we might see more backstabbing on the job where people face career consequences as one punitive outcome of engaging in open conflict. Further groups where reconcilation is not as readily deployed are more likely to be characterised by covert-hostility than open-conflict.

I think boys are girls tend to be treated differently by adults, and certainly this is historically true. One aspect (I suspect) is that girls often face more punitive reactions when they engage in open conflict, so they develop conflict avoidance skills - they have little need for or practise with reconciliation skills.
Boys meanwhile are not sufficiently motivated by the punitive reactions of adults to develop avoidance skills. However like every healthy person they are motivated to interact with their peers and to form positive attachment bonds. The punitive effects of unresolved conflict with their peers, leads boys to develop reconciliation skills. The effect is self-perpetuating in that when girls fall out with each other they lack the reconciliation skills that would minimise the negative impact of their open conflict, while for boys engaging in open conflict with their peers only rarely has any long term negative consequences, but nearly always generates further practise of their reconciliation skills.

This makes sense when it appears that a lot of females grow out of 'covert-hostility' and take up a more confrontational strategy when circumstances are less punitive to their doing so, while males grow into 'covert-hostility' in circumstances where engaging in open conflict becomes more costly.

Why do guys fuck their best friend's girlfriend?

because the sex is just that much better.

oh also because when they get all relationshippy you get to say two things.

1) dont you have a boyfriend?

and

2) i cant date you i could never trust you

Why do guys fuck their best friend's girlfriend?

because someone needs to hold the video camera, and he drew the small straw

<.<
>.>

What?!

I'm writing this as a male college student. I do not know of more than a handful of girls who do not fall into this description, nor do I know any girl who sees nothing wrong with their relationship dynamics with each other. Furthermore, these views are easily validated by any simple search on google for "women" and "backstabbing."

Why are women so duplicitous towards each other? Why do they spy on each other, talk behind the back of each other, slander and defame each other, yet still greet each other with the most false of smiles and hugs, with full knowledge that the other could pass for their worst enemy? Why will women furthermore put up with shit from each other, yet say and do nothing directly? Why will women resort to intrigue against one another that would put John Grisham to shame?

My experience has shown me that when men have a problem with one another, they will deal with it upfront with little to no cloak-and-daggery occuring. This is not to say that men are immune from this, but seem to have much less of an inclination for it. Hell, a given room of girls seems to have as much infighting as an entire wing of men!

Just to give an extreme example: two years ago, a female decided she did not like her room mate. So, rather than deal with the problem directly, she contaiminated her roommate's shampoo, conditioner, mouth wash, and contact lens solution with tilex, again, for the sole reason that she was unhappy with her roommate. While extreme, the amount of gossip that women will tell about their so-called friends goes around is just absurd!

So why? Why will women slander and libel a person beyond belief behind their back, yet greet them with a smile the next time they see them? Why?
I can't believe I actually have to spell this out, but...

Whenever you find yourself asking, "Why do women do X?", there is a very easy way to get an answer. Ask yourself, "Why do men do X?" Unless you're talking about specific biological functions, I promise you that the answers will almost always be the same.

Why do women back-stab? For the exact same reasons why men back-stab.

Why do women call each other "slut"? Same reason men call each other "fag." Why do women use passive-aggressive methods like gossip or pranks to get back at people they are angry with? The same reasons why men do! And yes, men do this, all the damn time.

Seriously, if you're old enough to be in college, you're old enough to grasp this. Women aren't some alien species. They are human beings. When you want to know why "women" do something, just rephrase the question and ask yourself why HUMANS do those things.

Why would a human use passive-aggressive tactics? Well, a great reason would be if their aggression is not accepted by others. They have to use passive-aggressive tactics because aggressive-aggressive ones will cost them more. For women, this is the case in our society more often than not. Women who are openly aggressive are called "bitches," are told they're "cat-fighting," and are generally patronized or insulted whenever possible. Their aggression is not seen as strength, it's the butt of jokes. So it makes sense for women to be less likely to use overtly aggressive tactics, at least in certain situations.

They only do that around you dude.

I can't believe I actually have to spell this out, but...

Whenever you find yourself asking, "Why do women do X?", there is a very easy way to get an answer. Ask yourself, "Why do men do X?" Unless you're talking about specific biological functions, I promise you that the answers will almost always be the same.

Why do women back-stab? For the exact same reasons why men back-stab.

Why do women call each other "slut"? Same reason men call each other "fag." Why do women use passive-aggressive methods like gossip or pranks to get back at people they are angry with? The same reasons why men do! And yes, men do this, all the damn time.

Seriously, if you're old enough to be in college, you're old enough to grasp this. Women aren't some alien species. They are human beings. When you want to know why "women" do something, just rephrase the question and ask yourself why HUMANS do those things.

Why would a human use passive-aggressive tactics? Well, a great reason would be if their aggression is not accepted by others. They have to use passive-aggressive tactics because aggressive-aggressive ones will cost them more. For women, this is the case in our society more often than not. Women who are openly aggressive are called "bitches," are told they're "cat-fighting," and are generally patronized or insulted whenever possible. Their aggression is not seen as strength, it's the butt of jokes. So it makes sense for women to be less likely to use overtly aggressive tactics, at least in certain situations.
In other words, in many modern cultures, bitches cut throats while ladies poison.

There is a counter generalization-question that I would pose to the OP:

Why do men pretend they don't back-stab each other, when we can see them doing it all the time?

That, my friend, is a brilliant line.
It just goes to show that operating on generalizations is a dangerous way to play. ;)

In other words, in many modern cultures, bitches cut throats while ladies poison.

Pretty much, yeah.


There is a counter generalization-question that I would pose to the OP:

Why do men pretend they don't back-stab each other, when we can see them doing it all the time?
And why do people say that women are "emotional," while simultaneously saying that men are more prone to aggression, anger, and lust? Does anger not count as an emotion? Do feelings of lust not count as feelings?

Just because this thread is a generalisation doesn't make this false, I agree and so do most of my freinds (including the girls). It's just not very feminine to kick the shit out of someone, and it's not very masculine to talk about how fat he looks in those jeans.

Most feminine people are girls, and most masculine people are men.

In other words, in many modern cultures, bitches cut throats while ladies poison.

There is a counter generalization-question that I would pose to the OP:

Why do men pretend they don't back-stab each other, when we can see them doing it all the time?

Pretty much, yeah.


And why do people say that women are "emotional," while simultaneously saying that men are more prone to aggression, anger, and lust? Does anger not count as an emotion? Do feelings of lust not count as feelings?

My dears, this falls into the category of pointing out the mote in someone's eye while ignoring the beam in one's own. For instance, if you ask anyone who drives a car, that person considers him/herself an above average driver. Guaranteed, everyone in the world is an above average driver. Same thing with unattractive personality traits, everyone else does it but I (and by extension my family/friends/gender/etc) don't.

Why do guys fuck their best friend's girlfriend?

Because they are there....

Pretty much, yeah.


And why do people say that women are "emotional," while simultaneously saying that men are more prone to aggression, anger, and lust? Does anger not count as an emotion? Do feelings of lust not count as feelings?
In man-speak (US version, at least), "emotional" is a put-down, meaning "unstable in a particularly non-masculine way." It has nothing to do with actual emotions.

Meanwhile, it's been my experience that guys can be way more emotional than women, just in the course of daily life. They feel anxiety about their status as men viz other men. They are constantly torn by emotional conflicts over their sexual urges and relationships -- lust, aggression, romance, fear of rejection, etc. Most of the women I personally know tend to go through their days on a level plane of mild, random annoyance, while most of the men I know report frequent wild swings of emotion from bitter job anger to exuberant sports highs nearly every day.

I think men think women are more emotional than them because, in our culture, it's more okay for women to express emotions. Men are expected not to be easily moved, so they try to repress all but the narrow category of guy-okay emotional expressions. But when they say that men don't feel as many emotions as women, they are lying to keep up the cultural facade.

My dears, this falls into the category of pointing out the mote in someone's eye while ignoring the beam in one's own.

I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about.

For instance, if you ask anyone who drives a car, that person considers him/herself an above average driver. Guaranteed, everyone in the world is an above average driver.

Sorry to ruin the theory, but I freely admit that I am a horrid driver. I'm not the worst on the road, but I'm certainly below average.


Same thing with unattractive personality traits, everyone else does it but I (and by extension my family/friends/gender/etc) don't.
Again, I've gotta burst the bubble on this one. I am more than willing to admit to numerous unattractive personality traits, such as my extreme territoriality, my impatience, my routine rudeness, and my tendency to monopolize conversations.

I have flaws, just as every other living human has flaws. My flaws are not identical to another person's flaws, of course, and the presence of my flaws does not render me incapable of noting other people's flaws. Nor does it render me incapable of passing judgment on flaws that I share with others.

For instance, the fact that I once cheated on a test does not stop me from recognizing that cheating on tests is a lousy thing to do. The fact that I cheated on a test also doesn't stop me from noting that it's lousy to cheat on your wife/girlfriend. It also doesn't stop me from noting that it's lousy to drive drunk.

I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about.

Sorry to ruin the theory, but I freely admit that I am a horrid driver. I'm not the worst on the road, but I'm certainly below average.


Again, I've gotta burst the bubble on this one. I am more than willing to admit to numerous unattractive personality traits, such as my extreme territoriality, my impatience, my routine rudeness, and my tendency to monopolize conversations.

I have flaws, just as every other living human has flaws. My flaws are not identical to another person's flaws, of course, and the presence of my flaws does not render me incapable of noting other people's flaws. Nor does it render me incapable of passing judgment on flaws that I share with others.

For instance, the fact that I once cheated on a test does not stop me from recognizing that cheating on tests is a lousy thing to do. The fact that I cheated on a test also doesn't stop me from noting that it's lousy to cheat on your wife/girlfriend. It also doesn't stop me from noting that it's lousy to drive drunk.

Alright, I should have made my post say, "Except for Bottle." ;)

Alright, I should have made my post say, "Except for Bottle." ;)
I'm telling you, I'm a freak. I am what happens when two Psychology PhDs are allowed to mate.

Men and women do things diffeantly because we are differant.

I agree mostly with what Bottle said about asking your self why do humans do this....? Although not entirly.

Men and women, do go about doing some things in a differant way, and it is absolutly to do with the differances in how we think(how our brains work)

Just because this thread is a generalisation doesn't make this false, I agree and so do most of my freinds (including the girls). It's just not very feminine to kick the shit out of someone, and it's not very masculine to talk about how fat he looks in those jeans.

Most feminine people are girls, and most masculine people are men.
Let's talk about some cultural stereotype assumptions that may be skewing the issue.

I notice your rhetorical example assumes that confronting people straightforwardly involves physical violence ("kicking the shit out of someone").

I notice that you assume masculine behavior does not include judging other people's appearance.

I notice that you apply the labels "feminine" and "masculine" to females and males as if the very broad meanings of those words are inextricably tied to physical gender.

I also notice that you reflexively(?) talk about "girls" and "men," not "women" and "men."

Everything in your post assumes an entire range of behaviors for females and another range of behaviors for men, but allows for little overlap. This is not realistic. Your post also seems to attach a certain kind of social status to those assumed behaviors. You use the juvenile word "girls" as opposed to the adult word "men," thus creating the impression of a less mature, less powerful, less prominent social role for females.

In fact, most men do not use violence to confront their foes. Most men, in fact, battle their foes in indirect, "backstabbing" ways, especially if those foes are more powerful than them or if they are in a situation where direct confrontation would cause more problems, such as on the job (it's called "office politics").

Men frequently judge the appearance of other men, because appearance is one of the ways they compete with each other for the attention of women. Men regularly badmouth each other's looks and personalities to women in order to sabotage the competition. In a bar, when one guy goes to the bathroom, his friend makes joking remarks to the lady he's been hitting on about how dumb he is or how his BO kicks in at embarrassing moments. That sort of thing.

As for gossip -- there is no gender divide for gossiping. All human beings gossip about each other. Unfortunately, I can't find the study anymore -- I first read about it in an article about gossip more than 15 years ago -- but apparently there was a study done about it by some American university, the findings of which estimated that half to two-thirds of all human communications qualify as some form of gossip. Any time we talk about things other people do that do not affect us, we are gossiping, and if you take an honest look at both private conversations and at the news media, you will see that we all do that pretty much incessantly. There is no more interesting subject than the doings of others. This is true of both men and women.

Historical side note: You may be interested to know that news media came into existence because of gossip. I heard this from a documentary about coffee. It goes like this: The 18th century saw the birth of the coffeehouse in England and France. Each coffeehouse catered to a niche clientele -- there were coffeehouses where artists hung out, others where lawyers and politicians hung out, others for businessmen, writers, actors, etc. Quite a lot of interesting things were discussed in these places, and important business got done in them (Lloyd's of London is actually the name of the coffeehouse where the men who invented commercial insurance (and the modern insurance company by that name) hung out together). So, some enterprising printers decided to send spies to the coffeehouses to eavesdrop on people's conversations and write them down. Those notes then got written into gossip-column-style articles, which were printed as the first broadsheet newspapers. They were extremely popular because they allowed people who spent all their time in one coffeehouse to keep track of what was going on in the others -- and to gossip about it! If not for the lowly, oft-maligned gossip page, we wouldn't know anything about what was going on in the world around us.

I'll edit my sig accordingly if a moderater agrees with you (probably by making ted steven's quote 1 line instead of 2).Most likely, if a moderator cares about it, they'll simply delete it and put in "signatures are limited to 8 lines."

As for some backup for my question (and no, I did not read the generalization thread):Well, perhaps you should, as you are indeed generalizing.

"Men: why are they such assholes?"

"Men: why are they such assholes?"

I don't know.

"Men: why are they such assholes?"

I'd go on a rant qouting Team america now (the part about dicks, pussies and assholes) but i'm too fucking frustrated!:headbang:

"Men: why are they such assholes?"


The same reason why women are backstabbers.

Generalizations...I might add, though criticized sure make things alot easier in topics such as this, I guess this isnt the issue at hand, rather why based on an experience, that experience has revealed that women can be generalized to backstabbers based on that particular scenario according to that particular person...

Anyway onto my actual opinion.

Men aren't always arseholes, men backstab too, I say this as a man.

Women arent always backstabbers, they can be arseholes too, I repeat, I say this as a man, from my experience.

Might it be added that both genders may be neither, to neutralize any possibility of a hasty retort.

From what I see, it is human nature, nay, nautral behavior, to compete against one another, even at a subconscious level. Now, based on stereotypes, men act in an introverted way when it comes to dealing with disposition and emotion; therefore the men act more physically, or dont act at all.

Women have a more open way of dealing with such matters, and will thus have less restraint in showing dislike and thus backstab more frequently.

Then again, these stereotpyes are definately changing, at least in england...there are alot more physcial disputes between women now tthan there used to be, or at least, accoridng to both statistics and my personal experience with walking through a street on a day to day basis.

I guess I could go on, but this'll do for now, feel free to flame ^_^

I notice your rhetorical example assumes that confronting people straightforwardly involves physical violence ("kicking the shit out of someone").


Why assume that, just because I gave an example doesn't mean the situation will always end like that.


I notice that you assume masculine behavior does not include judging other people's appearance.


Well it's all relative.


I notice that you apply the labels "feminine" and "masculine" to females and males as if the very broad meanings of those words are inextricably tied to physical gender.


You obviously didn't read my post then, as I used the word most. Not all feminine people are women and vice versa for men.


I also notice that you reflexively(?) talk about "girls" and "men," not "women" and "men."


:rolleyes: I was refering to my freinds, who were not adults "including the girls". Then I repeated that same word subconciously as I was basicly talking about the same thing.


Everything in your post assumes an entire range of behaviors for females and another range of behaviors for men, but allows for little overlap. This is not realistic. Your post also seems to attach a certain kind of social status to those assumed behaviors. You use the juvenile word "girls" as opposed to the adult word "men," thus creating the impression of a less mature, less powerful, less prominent social role for females.


No, I attatched them to feminine and masculine behaviour. I did not say everyone who is feminine is a women etc...


In fact, most men do not use violence to confront their foes. Most men, in fact, battle their foes in indirect, "backstabbing" ways, especially if those foes are more powerful than them or if they are in a situation where direct confrontation would cause more problems, such as on the job (it's called "office politics").


In that office situation, people are unable to confront any situation. So the way people act in that situation is irrelivant.


Men frequently judge the appearance of other men, because appearance is one of the ways they compete with each other for the attention of women. Men regularly badmouth each other's looks and personalities to women in order to sabotage the competition. In a bar, when one guy goes to the bathroom, his friend makes joking remarks to the lady he's been hitting on about how dumb he is or how his BO kicks in at embarrassing moments. That sort of thing.


So it is ok for you to generalize is it? Anyway, I have found that those things are quite rare and don't do it because they hate the person they are bitching about, as they are not that concerned and would be more concered with scoring.


As for gossip -- there is no gender divide for gossiping. All human beings gossip about each other. Unfortunately, I can't find the study anymore -- I first read about it in an article about gossip more than 15 years ago -- but apparently there was a study done about it by some American university, the findings of which estimated that half to two-thirds of all human communications qualify as some form of gossip. Any time we talk about things other people do that do not affect us, we are gossiping, and if you take an honest look at both private conversations and at the news media, you will see that we all do that pretty much incessantly. There is no more interesting subject than the doings of others. This is true of both men and women.


I agree. However there is gossib, and there is just nasty bitching which is much more nasty and hateful. I have found that men tend to air their greviences to the person they hates face, where as women tend to do it behind their back.


Historical side note: You may be interested to know that news media came into existence because of gossip. -snip-

See above post.

I can't believe I actually have to spell this out, but...

Whenever you find yourself asking, "Why do women do X?", there is a very easy way to get an answer. Ask yourself, "Why do men do X?" Unless you're talking about specific biological functions, I promise you that the answers will almost always be the same.

Why do women back-stab? For the exact same reasons why men back-stab.

Why do women call each other "slut"? Same reason men call each other "fag." Why do women use passive-aggressive methods like gossip or pranks to get back at people they are angry with? The same reasons why men do! And yes, men do this, all the damn time.

Seriously, if you're old enough to be in college, you're old enough to grasp this. Women aren't some alien species. They are human beings. When you want to know why "women" do something, just rephrase the question and ask yourself why HUMANS do those things.

Why would a human use passive-aggressive tactics? Well, a great reason would be if their aggression is not accepted by others. They have to use passive-aggressive tactics because aggressive-aggressive ones will cost them more. For women, this is the case in our society more often than not. Women who are openly aggressive are called "bitches," are told they're "cat-fighting," and are generally patronized or insulted whenever possible. Their aggression is not seen as strength, it's the butt of jokes. So it makes sense for women to be less likely to use overtly aggressive tactics, at least in certain situations.

;) Like I said.....

Just because this thread is a generalisation doesn't make this false, I agree and so do most of my freinds (including the girls). It's just not very feminine to kick the shit out of someone, and it's not very masculine to talk about how fat he looks in those jeans.

Most feminine people are girls, and most masculine people are men.
Talking about how fat a female looks (either in a particular piece of clothing or generally) isnt an uncommon trait in males at all.
However, saying it to their face isnt as common.

There is more social pressure on males to not openly confront females than there is on males to not openly confront males. Consistent with the notion that covert-agression increases in situations where overt-confrontation is percieved as having a punitive effect, males are often less openly confrontational with females (in response to societal 'mores') but more covertly confrontational.

A male I know demonstrates this very well. He is quite a large guy and has habitually relied on overt confrontation when he feels hostile towards other males. Conversely he is much less confrontational with females, but boy does he gossip about and backstab them.

He recently went from a work environment where overt-confrontation within limits is fairly well-accepted, to an educational environment where overt-confrontation is much more limited by 'acceptable behaviour expectations'. He now also backstabs and gossips about other men a lot more, including insults about their appearance.

"Men: why are they such assholes?"
They're not, as a rule. Most men are pretty innocuous. See, men are people, and most people are well-meaning, slightly clueless, and just doing their best to figure out how to unhook someone else's underwear without ruining the moment.

If you find yourself surrounded by men who are assholes, then you should take a serious look at why you are choosing to associate with such people. There are plenty of non-assholes with whom you can associate instead.

Females are conditioned in our society to be indirect and avoid confrontation, to react to strife and ill will through hidden messages and verbal "backstabbing."

Males in our society our conditioned to pound the crap out of each other when they see a problem.

Talking about how fat a female looks (either in a particular piece of clothing or generally) isnt an uncommon trait in males at all.
However, saying it to their face isnt as common.

There is more social pressure on males to not openly confront females than there is on males to not openly confront males. Consistent with the notion that covert-agression increases in situations where overt-confrontation is percieved as having a punitive effect, males are often less openly confrontational with females (in response to societal 'mores') but more covertly confrontational.

A male I know demonstrates this very well. He is quite a large guy and has habitually relied on overt confrontation when he feels hostile towards other males. Conversely he is much less confrontational with females, but boy does he gossip about and backstab them.

He recently went from a work environment where overt-confrontation within limits is fairly well-accepted, to an educational environment where overt-confrontation is much more limited by 'acceptable behaviour expectations'. He now also backstabs and gossips about other men a lot more, including insults about their appearance.

oooo excellent example.

Women are verry...let's say competitive, they want to prove to each other that they are the best..they were the best cloths.....their boyfriend is the best ...best car best ....well...u know :D


This is because women allways brag about what they have and how they have is the best..from here the competition...while...men on the other hand...really just don't give a ...BIP about what his friend has....Meetings between men are something like...

"Hey Joe...." "Yea?" "guess who i banged yesterday"..."arm.....?!@$%" ...

after 3h of explaining.... they come up to 2 possible roots let's call them
1. Continuing the conversation with "Cool.....let's get more beer and i'll tell u who i did it with"

or

2. "Dang...she's that good?....give me her number....then we compare experiences"


The rugh way of saing "Sharing is gooood...."


While wemen.. "mine mine miiiiiiine!.....u touch i kill....UG.......uuu.......something better then this?..."me no likey"... i must do something to eliminate the competition...must destroy...bip..bip..bip..bip........................................................................ ..................................................bip"


I think u get the ideea from what i said....there is more to say but i am no Michael Moor :D:D:D

Why assume that, just because I gave an example doesn't mean the situation will always end like that.
I was commenting on your choice of example because it is a common one. Lots of people make similar assumptions. It indicates a cultural bias that the speakers are often not even aware of.


Well it's all relative.
Which is why generalizations have only limited usefulness.


You obviously didn't read my post then, as I used the word most. Not all feminine people are women and vice versa for men.
See my first comment, above.


:rolleyes: I was refering to my freinds, who were not adults "including the girls". Then I repeated that same word subconciously as I was basicly talking about the same thing.
:rolleyes: I was referring to your choice to use "girls," not "women" to refer to your female friends and "men," not "boys" to refer to your male friends. This is another very common cultural bias that, apparently, you are not aware of.



No, I attatched them to feminine and masculine behaviour. I did not say everyone who is feminine is a women etc...
See above.


In that office situation, people are unable to confront any situation. So the way people act in that situation is irrelivant.
Right. The workplace is only the most common area of social interaction and social powerplays in modern human life everywhere on the planet, but the things people do there don't count to your argument. Uh-huh.


So it is ok for you to generalize is it? Anyway, I have found that those things are quite rare and don't do it because they hate the person they are bitching about, as they are not that concerned and would be more concered with scoring.
I'm not generalizing. I am pointing out common exceptions to the generalizations about what men do. Such things are not rare. They are just as likely to occur as not to occur. They are common behaviors. Saying that men or women often do something is hardly the same as saying men or women always do something.

But I suppose if your only response to an argument that says many men don't fit your generalization is to claim that that statement itself is a generalization, then I guess you must really love your orginal generalization. Doesn't make it true, though.


I agree. However there is gossib, and there is just nasty bitching which is much more nasty and hateful. I have found that men tend to air their greviences to the person they hates face, where as women tend to do it behind their back.
This is just you ignoring all the examples of men doing the same thing women do so you can keep on saying that women do this, it's a female trait. It is not a female trait. It is a human trait. Both sexes do it.


See above post.
That was not the point of my off-topic bit of historical trivia. Unless you are under the impression that the news industry is dominated by backstabbing women? Or perhaps you mean that the news industry is dominated by men who do the "good" kind of gossip and not that bitchy stuff that women do. :rolleyes: again.