NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6049174.stm


Funny, I thought they were willing to tolerate the violence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6049174.stm


Funny, I thought they were willing to tolerate the violence.

Maybe they prefer tolerating it from a safe distance?

Maybe they're getting supplies for the "Its so much better now Saddam is gone" party....

Let's say that in total, 1 million Iraqis have fled. That's only 3% of the country's total population -- not that much.

Well that's to be expected really. I can't blame civilians for wanting to escape from the violence of their compatriots.

Let's say that in total, 1 million Iraqis have fled. That's only 3% of the country's total population -- not that much.

You're an ass. 1,000,000 people is a hell of a lot of people to move out of a country.

Let's say that in total, 1 million Iraqis have fled. That's only 3% of the country's total population -- not that much.

yes, good point, but anything, ANYTHING, ANYTHING but another, goddamm humanitarian crisis!!! the world cannot afford to endure many more of those.:(

You're an ass. 1,000,000 people is a hell of a lot of people to move out of a country.

yep. USA fucked it up big time.

Woohoo only the crazy ones are left.

Let's say that in total, 1 million Iraqis have fled. That's only 3% of the country's total population -- not that much.

Well you know, 2,973 people was only about 0.001% of the US population - so, 9/11 was not a big deal.

Well you know, 2,973 people was only about 0.001% of the US population - so, 9/11 was not a big deal.

it truly wasn't

Well you know, 2,973 people was only about 0.001% of the US population - so, 9/11 was not a big deal.

They weren't all US citizens and, considering the estimated 100,000 casualties in the invasion of Iraq, it's an insignificant number.

Maybe they prefer tolerating it from a safe distance?

Sort of like Republicans.

Let's say that in total, 1 million Iraqis have fled. That's only 3% of the country's total population -- not that much.

1 million people is a lot of people, no matter how you slice it. If you want to play it by percentages, fine - that'd be like 9 million Americans fleeing their homes. Is that now suddenly 'not that much'?

You think it wouldn't make an impact if 9 million Americans fled to Canada or Mexico?

Pffft.

Sort of like Republicans.

And chickenhawks.

And chickenhawks.

Same thing, really.

1 million people is a lot of people, no matter how you slice it. If you want to play it by percentages, fine - that'd be like 9 million Americans fleeing their homes. Is that now suddenly 'not that much'?

You think it wouldn't make an impact if 9 million Americans fled to Canada or Mexico?

Pffft.

What you're saying is totally lost on people like MTAE. They see the world like a computer game. Numbers. Black and white. They don't understand humanity.

Well you know, 2,973 people was only about 0.001% of the US population - so, 9/11 was not a big deal.

What you're saying is totally lost on people like MTAE. They see the world like a computer game. Numbers. Black and white. They don't understand humanity.

lol

Same thing, really.

True, but I was thinking of pro-war Dems and independents.

Let's say that in total, 1 million Iraqis have fled. That's only 3% of the country's total population -- not that much.

Um... Since the global number of refugees by the end of 2005 was an estimated 8.4 million persons, 1 million Iraqis is quite a lot...

(Source (http://www.unhcr.org/statistics/STATISTICS/4486ceb12.pdf))

And by the way, there's an estimated 1.2 million internally displaced people in Iraq in addition to the refugees...

Lets see you have a group that HAD power in the country and killed and robbed andd mistreated to MAJORITY...now they are out of opowerr and LOSING their insurgenvy to the other insurgency that wants REVENGE..

Smart of them to leave . Before they get beheaded by the pissed off Shiites that remember them from their Bathist days in power....:rolleyes:

They along with the other sane peoople who can afford to leave until thee crap settles down are still a minority.

You see a MILLION leaving


I see TWENTY FIVE MILLION STAYING and fighting to form a NEW Democratic IRAQ . AND endurring HELL and death and war ...to be able to say finally .I AM A FREE MAN . This is MY county and I will Vote for whom I want ....as soon as we clean up this mess of revenge squads and insurgents .

Why is that a surprise ?

Lets see you have a group that HAD power in the country and killed and robbed andd mistreated to MAJORITY...now they are out of opowerr and LOSING their insurgenvy to the other insurgency that wants REVENGE..

Smart of them to leave . Before they get beheaded by the pissed off Shiites that remember them from their Bathist days in power....:rolleyes:

They along with the other sane peoople who can afford to leave until thee crap settles down are still a minority.

You see a MILLION leaving


I see TWENTY FIVE MILLION STAYING and fighting to form a NEW Democratic IRAQ . AND endurring HELL and death and war ...to be able to say finally .I AM A FREE MAN . This is MY county and I will Vote for whom I want ....as soon as we clean up this mess of revenge squads and insurgents .

Why is that a surprise ?

Why must you shout in every post?

You see 25 million staying to 'fight' for a new Iraq. It's funny that you don't support them however when they are fighting for a new Iraq by using IEDs to try and get the US and UK out of their 'new democratic Iraq'.

Lets see you have a group that HAD power in the country and killed and robbed andd mistreated to MAJORITY...now they are out of opowerr and LOSING their insurgenvy to the other insurgency that wants REVENGE..

Smart of them to leave . Before they get beheaded by the pissed off Shiites that remember them from their Bathist days in power....:rolleyes:

They along with the other sane peoople who can afford to leave until thee crap settles down are still a minority.

You see a MILLION leaving


I see TWENTY FIVE MILLION STAYING and fighting to form a NEW Democratic IRAQ . AND endurring HELL and death and war ...to be able to say finally .I AM A FREE MAN . This is MY county and I will Vote for whom I want ....as soon as we clean up this mess of revenge squads and insurgents .

Why is that a surprise ?

A new democratic Iraq, PMSL, you really do believe the crap you're spoon fed by your Govt don't you. Torture, suppression, social polarisation and corruption are at higher levels now than they were under Sadam. Iraq is on the brink of Civil War you idiot, because of the US/UK invasion removing the only stabilising force in the country.

LOSING their insurgenvy to the other insurgency that wants REVENGE..

Tell that to the families of 3000 dead Americans.

I see TWENTY FIVE MILLION STAYING and fighting to form a NEW Democratic IRAQ . AND endurring HELL and death and war ...to be able to say finally .I AM A FREE MAN . This is MY county and I will Vote for whom I want ....as soon as we clean up this mess of revenge squads and insurgents .

No, you see people who CAN'T leave. I want you to ask those 25 million people if they'd rather be ANYWHERE else. Trust me - they'd leave.

If Iraq was truly Democratic, by choice not externally enforced, then it would separate into three distinct countries; Kurdistan in the north, Iraq in the Centre and Basra in the south.

Caps are use to place emphasis...NOT TO SCREAM :D


Like I said YOU see it different. Out of all the possibilities.

I LOVE Saddam being describe as a Stabilising force ...:D :D

Why is everybody talking about the million? That's not a relevant figure...
Between them, Jordan and Syria are home to almost a million Iraqis.

Some have been there for a decade or more, but the UNHCR says many have also arrived since the fall of Saddam Hussein.

Caps are use to place emphasis...NOT TO SCREAM :D


Like I said YOU see it different. Out of all the possibilities.

I LOVE Saddam being describe as a Stabilising force ...:D :D

Not on the internet they're not.

Answer the question, do you support the right of Iraqis to attack coalition forces that they want out of their country?

Caps are use to place emphasis...NOT TO SCREAM :D


Like I said YOU see it different. Out of all the possibilities.

I LOVE Saddam being describe as a Stabilising force ...:D :D

Sadam was a US/UK ally used to stabilise the region, i.e. keep Iran in place. The Saudi's didn't want him removed from power for that very reason.

I LOVE Saddam being describe as a Stabilising force ...:D :D

Iraq was a much safer place under Saddam. = Fact.

The only people who were eliminated were political enemies. = Fact.

Iran had a powerful rival in the region before Saddam left power. = Fact

Now Iran is the dominating force in the middle-east and right on top of the Wests oil supply. = Fact

People were not killed for simply being a different religion. They were killed for political dissent. It just so happened that many members of a certain religion didn't like Saddam. = Fact.

Need I go on?

Well you know, 2,973 people was only about 0.001% of the US population - so, 9/11 was not a big deal.

I only meant to imply that the weakest, least loyal 3% of the Iraqis are leaving. The strong, dedicated 97% are staying. The patriots are willing to tolerate the violence; only the cowards flee (with the exception of the very old and very young).

Kind of reminds of Vietnamese boat-people.

Sad.

I only meant to imply that the weakest, least loyal 3% of the Iraqis are leaving. The strong, dedicated 97% are staying. The patriots are willing to tolerate the violence; only the cowards flee (with the exception of the very old and very young).

LOL

I only meant to imply that the weakest, least loyal 3% of the Iraqis are leaving. The strong, dedicated 97% are staying. The patriots are willing to tolerate the violence; only the cowards flee (with the exception of the very old and very young).

Been watching war movies much?

I only meant to imply that the weakest, least loyal 3% of the Iraqis are leaving. The strong, dedicated 97% are staying. The patriots are willing to tolerate the violence; only the cowards flee (with the exception of the very old and very young).

It's easy for you to sit on your air conditioned office calling people in Iraq cowards, isn't it?

I only meant to imply that the weakest, least loyal 3% of the Iraqis are leaving. The strong, dedicated 97% are staying. The patriots are willing to tolerate the violence; only the cowards flee (with the exception of the very old and very young).

Just like only cowards repeatedly demand military action acroos the world and the respond with lines like 'I'm not arrogant enough to assume I could make a difference so I'll sit at home as a member of the 101st keyboarders' whenasked when they're going to join up and do their part.

Until you've been in a similar situation you don't have any right to call these people names.

Just like only cowards repeatedly demand military action acroos the world and the respond with lines like 'I'm not arrogant enough to assume I could make a difference so I'll sit at home as a member of the 101st keyboarders' whenasked when they're going to join up and do their part.

Until you've been in a similar situation you don't have any right to call these people names.

lol ;)

I only meant to imply that the weakest, least loyal 3% of the Iraqis are leaving. The strong, dedicated 97% are staying. The patriots are willing to tolerate the violence; only the cowards flee (with the exception of the very old and very young).As a descendant of people that fled a warzone, I find that comment deeply offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I only meant to imply that the weakest, least loyal 3% of the Iraqis are leaving. The strong, dedicated 97% are staying. The patriots are willing to tolerate the violence; only the cowards flee (with the exception of the very old and very young).

And I only meant to imply that you're nothing but a troll. GTFO.

As a descendant of people that fled a warzone, I find that comment deeply offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.

It's easy for people who have never been affected by war to make such statements...........it's called ignorance.

As a descendant of people that fled a warzone, I find that comment deeply offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.

He won't be. The post has been quoted and responded to 5 times already, I gotta remember to stop feeding this guy.

Just like only cowards repeatedly demand military action acroos the world and the respond with lines like 'I'm not arrogant enough to assume I could make a difference so I'll sit at home as a member of the 101st keyboarders' whenasked when they're going to join up and do their part.

Until you've been in a similar situation you don't have any right to call these people names.

Owned again.

As a descendant of people that fled a warzone, I find that comment deeply offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Why, it's almost as if offending people is his main point in posting.

Not on the internet they're not.

Answer the question, do you support the right of Iraqis to attack coalition forces that they want out of their country?

Those Iraqis that are fighting to remove invaders from their country have that right. Same right I have if a foriegn government ever came into the US to free my ass...I would reserve my right to blow them away..depending on the situation and why they were there.

If the US was taken over by a mad dicatator and Canada came to our rescue would I want to shoot the Canadians ? I guess it would depend on WHAT I was trying to accomplish . Do you have any more simple questions to be aswered ?

So now YOU answer a question..instead of FIGHTING why dont they join the government ...the DEMOCRACY and vote and participate in running the country...the Americans would be leaving long ago if not for the insurgents from AL QUEDA and the SUNNI insurgents who are out of power.

You will NEVER defeat the measly 150,000 troops in a country with 26 million people if your insurgency is so feeble it can only die or kill civilians . And the US death toll from the start of the war to today is not even an argument...26 million Iraqis...150,000 Americans do the math ...if they DID NOT want them there and were so pissed off...how long could they survive ? So some of them ..like the huge majority must at least tolerate the presence if not welcome it .

I only live in Phila . the death toll here durring the whole war is around 1,500 . Add camden and washington and the soldiers are safer in Iraq .

So why not just join the government ?

Unless of course you feel ITS NOT IN YOUR BEST INTEREST to have a democracy and wish to keep it from happening.

Those Iraqis that are fighting to remove invaders from their country have that right. Same right I have if a foriegn government ever came into the US to free my ass...I would reserve my right to blow them away..depending on the situation and why they were there.

If the US was taken over by a mad dicatator and Canada came to our rescue would I want to shoot the Canadians ? I guess it would depend on WHAT I was trying to accomplish . Do you have any more simple questions to be aswered ?

So now YOU answer a question..instead of FIGHTING why dont they join the government ...the DEMOCRACY and vote and participate in running the country...the Americans would be leaving long ago if not for tthe insurgents from AL QUEDA and the SUNNI insurgents who are out of power.

You will NEVER defeat the measly 150,000 troops in a country with 26 million people if your insurgency is so feeble it can only die or kill civilians .

So why not just join the government ?

Unless of course you feel ITS NOT IN YOUR BEST INTEREST to have a democracy and wish to keep it from happening.

You fail to understand the concept of insurgent/guerilla warfare.

Those Iraqis that are fighting to remove invaders from their country have that right. Same right I have if a foriegn government ever came into the US to free my ass...I would reserve my right to blow them away..depending on the situation and why they were there.

If the US was taken over by a mad dicatator and Canada came to our rescue would I want to shoot the Canadians ? I guess it would depend on WHAT I was trying to accomplish . Do you have any more simple questions to be aswered ?

So now YOU answer a question..instead of FIGHTING why dont they join the government ...the DEMOCRACY and vote and participate in running the country...the Americans would be leaving long ago if not for tthe insurgents from AL QUEDA and the SUNNI insurgents who are out of power.

You will NEVER defeat the measly 150,000 troops in a country with 26 million people if your insurgency is so feeble it can only die or kill civilians .

So why not just join the government ?

Unless of course you feel ITS NOT IN YOUR BEST INTEREST to have a democracy and wish to keep it from happening.

Why do you assume that most Iraqis want a democracy? The fact there is such a massive insurgency surely point to them wanting something else.

It's the massive arrogance in these posts that astounds me. This American belief that just because they have it then democracy must be the best form of government and everyone else must want it. Guess what, I live under a Monarchy when are you heros in green gonna come 'liberate' me from my unelected ruler?

-snip-

Americans cannot stomach their losses. We've lost what, 3000 troops? In a strategic sense that's not that bad. But Americans go nuts if a few soldiers die. We've lost over 40 THIS MONTH. The American public demands our soldiers return home, and once the Democrats gain power the troops WILL come home. The insurgency has already won.

Why do you assume that most Iraqis want a democracy? The fact there is such a massive insurgency surely point to them wanting something else.

That's another good point. If Iraqis had wanted democracy then they would have taken up arms and created it.

Americans cannot stomach their losses. We've lost what, 3000 troops? In a strategic sense that's not that bad. But Americans go nuts if a few soldiers die. We've lost over 40 THIS MONTH. The American public demands our soldiers return home, and once the Democrats gain power the troops WILL come home. The insurgency has already won.

I agree with you. Over 9000 died on D-Day, and that's just one day. Twice as many Marines were killed on Iwo jima than all the soldiers right now so far.

If CNN was around back in them days, they would be yelling and screaming for Rumsfeld's resignation.

Americans cannot stomach their losses. We've lost what, 3000 troops? In a strategic sense that's not that bad. But Americans go nuts if a few soldiers die. We've lost over 40 THIS MONTH. The American public demands our soldiers return home, and once the Democrats gain power the troops WILL come home. The insurgency has already won.

You've lost less this month than the number of Iraqis dying per day.

I agree with you. Over 9000 died on D-Day, and that's just one day. Twice as many Marines were killed on Iwo jima than all the soldiers right now so far.

If CNN was around back in them days, they would be yelling and screaming for Rumsfeld's resignation.

Different situation mate. If the US was attacked by another state then your public would accept higher casualties.

That's another good point. If Iraqis had wanted democracy then they would have taken up arms and created it.

Never mind the fact that apart from Israel, "democracy" is a completely foreign concept to the mid east.

Hey, the Hungarians wanted democracy too, they took up arms, and guess what happened to them?

Never mind the fact that apart from Israel, "democracy" is a completely foreign concept to the mid east.

Hey, the Hungarians wanted democracy too, they took up arms, and guess what happened to them?

Incorrect - There are 2 Arab democracies, Lebanon & Palestine, both of which have been supressed by Israel.

Never mind the fact that apart from Israel, "democracy" is a completely foreign concept to the mid east.

Hey, the Hungarians wanted democracy too, they took up arms, and guess what happened to them?

Remind me again, who was it that 'liberated' America from the biggest and most powerful military in the world?

Different situation mate. If the US was attacked by another state then your public would accept higher casualties.

During Vietnam we accepted more deaths in 1965-roughly 5000-than this entire war.

I'm not saying I want higher casualties, but in a historical context, this is a very small war.

Remind me again, who was it that 'liberated' America from the biggest and most powerful military in the world?

Even then, America had a tradition of democracy and self-rule. Also, it was forest country, with plenty of cover. In addition, the British had other commitments, so they couldn't devote their full resources to fight us.

And don't forget the French Navy. Probably couldn't have done it without them. And the Spanish helped out too.

During Vietnam we accepted more deaths in 1965-roughly 5000-than this entire war.

I'm not saying I want higher casualties, but in a historical context, this is a very small war.

Korea - US killed 54,000

Why do you assume that most Iraqis want a democracy? The fact there is such a massive insurgency surely point to them wanting something else.

It's the massive arrogance in these posts that astounds me. This American belief that just because they have it then democracy must be the best form of government and everyone else must want it. Guess what, I live under a Monarchy when are you hero's in green gonna come 'liberate' me from my unelected ruler?



12 million whom have voted and the Constitution and the many elections you may have simply missed or ignored make your supposed question a statement of extreme ignorance and supreme arrogance along with the fact that you must think you are so much better than the Iraqis that you know whats best for them...

Radical liberal ? Could it be ?

Lets bring democracy with our guns.

You've lost less this month than the number of Iraqis dying per day.

Americans don't care. The majority of Americans cannot UNDERSTAND how many people are being killed. All they know is that Americans are dying - and they don't like that.

Korea - US killed 54,000

Tarawa 3,000 one battle

Even then, America had a tradition of democracy and self-rule. Also, it was forest country, with plenty of cover. In addition, the British had other commitments, so they couldn't devote their full resources to fight us.

And don't forget the French Navy. Probably couldn't have done it without them.

And what of the American's who fought for the British? I believe opinions were pretty divided at the time..... A great PR job since though, making it seem that everyone wanted to fight the evil opressive British.

During Vietnam we accepted more deaths in 1965-roughly 5000-than this entire war.

I'm not saying I want higher casualties, but in a historical context, this is a very small war.

Yeah, but these days everyone spazzes when someone dies. Thanks a ton CNN!
How many people died in he course of the Vietnam war?

Never mind the fact that apart from Israel, "democracy" is a completely foreign concept to the mid east.

Then maybe that's a sign that they don't WANT democracy? I say again, if the excessively armed middle eastern public WANTED democracy, they'd take it. They'd take power away from the regimes. It's not happening.

12 million whom have voted and the Constitution and the many elections you may have simply missed or ignored make your supposed question a statement of extreme ignorance and supreme arrogance along with the fact that you must think you are so much better than the Iraqis that you know whats best for them...

Radical liberal ? Could it be ?

Yes, I think I'm better than others, that why I advocate invading their countries and shooting them that I might enforce my beliefs on them....oh wait, that you.

Radical liberal? In the UK we call my politics just left of centre, but being American I doubt you can understand that I'm not a fully paid up member of the BCP.

Remind me again, who was it that 'liberated' America from the biggest and most powerful military in the world?
Napoleon!

12 million whom have voted and the Constitution and the many elections you may have simply missed or ignored make your supposed question a statement of extreme ignorance and supreme arrogance along with the fact that you must think you are so much better than the Iraqis that you know whats best for them...

Radical liberal ? Could it be ?

So 12 Million out of a population of 28,807,000.............hardly a majority support there...... So under the terms of democracy the Govt is invalid.

You seem rather ignorant.........

Yeah, but these days everyone spazzes when someone dies. Thanks a ton CNN!
How many people died in he course of the Vietnam war?

Yes, damn you world media for making us care about people dying.

So 12 Million out of a population of 28,807,000.............hardly a majority support there...... So under the terms of democracy the Govt is invalid.

You seem rather ignorant.........
This is NSG, right?

Then maybe that's a sign that they don't WANT democracy? I say again, if the excessively armed middle eastern public WANTED democracy, they'd take it. They'd take power away from the regimes. It's not happening.

I hardly think that's the case. Certainly not in Iraq. Saddam wouldn't have allowed it.

Now, whether they WANT a liberal democracy is a very good question. I tend to think most of them do, but then again, you have that sizeable group that wants old-school Islamic values, and this is part of the conflict that's going on right now.

Yes, damn you world media for making us care about people dying.

*realizes ignorance*

Yes, I think I'm better than others, that why I advocate invading their countries and shooting them that I might enforce my beliefs on them....oh wait, that you.

Radical liberal? In the UK we call my politics just left of centre, but being American I doubt you can understand that I'm not a fully paid up member of the BCP.

lol

Yes, I think I'm better than others, that why I advocate invading their countries and shooting them that I might enforce my beliefs on them....oh wait, that you.

Radical liberal? In the UK we call my politics just left of centre, but being American I doubt you can understand that I'm not a fully paid up member of the BCP.

I'd like to apologize on the part of America. Some of us know how to use periods to seperate statements. It just so happens that the person you're debating... doesn't.

This is NSG, right?

?

So now YOU answer a question..instead of FIGHTING why dont they join the government ...the DEMOCRACY and vote and participate in running the country...

Simple. They view it as a corrupt tool of an occupying power that is designed to protect the intrests on the US.

?
Actually there are quite a few smart people on NSG. ;)

Actually there are quite a few smart people on NSG. ;)

As NSG could mean a number of things, including The Nuclear Suppliers Group, I'm afraid you're going to have to clarify what you mean.........:confused:

Napoleon!

The French Revolution was after the American Revolution.

And what of the American's who fought for the British? I believe opinions were pretty divided at the time..... A great PR job since though, making it seem that everyone wanted to fight the evil opressive British.

Nowdays, they're mostly called Canadians. :D

Simple. They view it as a corrupt tool of an occupying power that is designed to protect the intrests on the US.

Didn't billions of people vote in Iraq dispite a great risk to their lives?

As NSG could mean a number of things, including The Nuclear Suppliers Group, I'm afraid you're going to have to clarify what you mean.........:confused:

NationStates General. Is a contraction for the name of the forum you're posting on :D

As NSG could mean a number of things, including The Nuclear Suppliers Group, I'm afraid you're going to have to clarify what you mean.........:confused:

Nation States General

The French Revolution was after the American Revolution.

d'oh

Didn't billions of people vote in Iraq dispite a great risk to their lives?

Yes, Iraqs' population of ~27 million suddenly massivly increases to billions just before election day.

Canadians.

Canadians! Where!?

Didn't billions of people vote in Iraq dispite a great risk to their lives?

There aren't a billion people in Iraq.

And I didn't say that all the people of Iraq feel that way. I just answered the question of why *some* in Iraq choose to fight rather than work with the new government.

The French Revolution was after the American Revolution.

Nowdays, they're mostly called Canadians. :D

The French supported the Americans, that someone claimed it was Napoleon is immaterial.

Incorrect, there was a sizeable Loyalist support in the 13 Colonies.

It really wasn't dude.

American Revolutionary War (1775-1783)

The French Revolution (1789–1799)

Bloody Mancunian education...........

Nation States General

:headbang:

That'll teach me for posting on a forum when drinking....

American Revolutionary War (1775-1783)

The French Revolution (1789–1799)

Bloody Mancunian education...........

Hmm, I never studied History but I've repeatedly read that Britains preoccupation with France was why we didn't commit the forces neever to win it so I assumed the Napoleonic war and Independence happened at the same time. I guess that'll teach me to make assumptions.

Simple. They view it as a corrupt tool of an occupying power that is designed to protect the intrests on the US.

Silly peasants. When will they learn that jumping into the fire only burns the first time you do it?

Hmm, I never studied History but I've repeatedly read that Britains preoccupation with France was why we didn't commit the forces neever to win it so I assumed the Napoleonic war and Independence happened at the same time. I guess that'll teach me to make assumptions.

Britain had been at war with France prior to the American Revolution, see French and Indian wars.

The French officially entered the American Revolutionary war in 1777 and signed a permanent military alliance in early 1778. Later Spain (in 1779) and the Dutch became allies of the French, leaving Britain to fight a major war alone without major allies. The American theatre thus became only one front in Britain's war.

So you are correct in thinking that it was other commitments that prevented the suppression of the revolution.

Since practically no Iraqis have faith in American intentions & want the Americans out as soon as possible, it isn't reasonable to assume they view the US-made leadership any differently.

1.2 million displaced, 0.6 million dead and hundreds of thousands of refugees. It's a good thing we all listened when UNHCR said this would happen. Just too bad we didn't give a shit.

The continual civil war denials are a laugh though.

The French Revolution was after the American Revolution.
lol i got so carried away with the french bit and being witty that i forgot what i was posting. that will teach to be witty for at least the rest of today. sorry mate.

and anyways, me point was that without the french, dutch, and spanish occupying british time, the americans would have been hopelessly lost.

yes, good point, but anything, ANYTHING, ANYTHING but another, goddamm humanitarian crisis!!! the world cannot afford to endure many more of those.:(

well, it can, but why let it?

I wonder how many of them wanted to leave when Saddam was in power, but could not.

The U.S. had originally anticipated hundreds of thousands of refugees, now they are finally starting to go. The majority of Iraq is stable, more troops need to be sent to help stabilize the hot zone though. Iraqi's themselves need to get on the ball and get their own security forces disciplined and trained with the guidance of American forces and then we can start to slowly withdraw.

if things don't stabilize in the next couple of years, we may just have to break up iraq into 3 different regions. They are lumped together by an old imperialist border anway.

As a descendant of people that fled a warzone, I find that comment deeply offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.

What war-zone did your family flee from? Did they have the choice of standing behind in an effort to loyally and bravely defend their country, or was it a lost cause? For example, if they fled from Vietnam when the Americans invaded, they were weak cowards. If they fled from Poland when the Nazis came, that's perfectly OK. Similarly, if they fled from Iraq instead of taking an active role in rebuilding and stabilizing their country, they are cowards.

What war-zone did your family flee from? Did they have the choice of standing behind in an effort to loyally and bravely defend their country, or was it a lost cause? For example, if they fled from Vietnam when the Americans invaded, they were weak cowards. If they fled from Poland when the Nazis came, that's perfectly OK. Similarly, if they fled from Iraq instead of taking an active role in rebuilding and stabilizing their country, they are cowards.

I'm sorry to have to ask again but this is based on...? Toilet paper wiped divination?

I'm sorry to have to ask again but this is based on...? Toilet paper wiped divination?

Common sense. There are various instances of war, and in some of them it is more rational to flee than in others. If there is nothing you can do, it is wise to remove yourself from the country. If you can take a constructive role in helping your country, you should stay and aid your fellow countrymen instead of running off with your tail between your legs.

The U.S. had originally anticipated hundreds of thousands of refugees, now they are finally starting to go. The majority of Iraq is stable, more troops need to be sent to help stabilize the hot zone though. Iraqi's themselves need to get on the ball and get their own security forces disciplined and trained with the guidance of American forces and then we can start to slowly withdraw.
The US had anticipated refugees?? Since when? The soldiers were going to be greeted as liberators, you know ;)

if things don't stabilize in the next couple of years, we may just have to break up iraq into 3 different regions. They are lumped together by an old imperialist border anway.
Yeah, that will be easier said then done. I'd like to see that being done peacefully.

I'm sorry to have to ask again but this is based on...? Toilet paper wiped divination?
Troll-vision. They can see in the dark you know.

MTAE has no real reason to believe what he feels is "right" and "wrong." He just "knows" it is right. Sort of... truthy?

I was reading about the emmigrations in Time magaizine a while back. It's pretty common for Iraqis to leave the country during times of unrest and this isn't the first time it's happened.

Any big change will often provoke it.

As a descendant of people that fled a warzone, I find that comment deeply offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Ditto.