NationStates Jolt Archive

Another fun story out of Texas:

AUSTIN, Texas - A group of first-year law students at the University of Texas at Austin has been chided by the dean for participating in a “Ghetto Fabulous”-themed costume party and posting pictures from it online.

So is this sort of thing racially insensitive, stereotypical, insulting, whatever? Should the dean be getting involved in "chiding" those who attended this party?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15248533/

No, it sounds entirely normal and funny to me.

if they were they have a right to be if they choose.

he has every right to chide them. what he doesn't have the right to do is to order them to take the pictures down, unless they're using university server space i guess.

And in other news, the dean of the law school at UT has decided that only minorities live in ghettos...

The only racist thing here is the assumption made that a ghetto theme has anything at all to do with blacks as a race.

I wish I knew about it in advance. I would have gotten a few people to drive by in an old cadillac and shoot at them. You know, for that touch of realism. :)

it seems both racist and snobbish (classist) to me.


We had no intention by any measure to choose a group or class of people and make fun of them,” said Transier, 26, of Houston.

But the photos — in which partygoers carried 40-ounce bottles of malt liquor and wore Afro wigs, necklaces with large medallions and name tags bearing traditionally black and Hispanic names — upset some black law students, said Sophia Lecky, president of the Thurgood Marshall Legal Society.



the ghetto is not the place where black people live, its the place where POOR people live. hence the snobbish--its fun to make sport of the lower classes. but then they wore afro-wigs and medallions with names associated with black and hispanic people--racist.

they deserve the hard time they are being given.

it seems both racist and snobbish (classist) to me.



the ghetto is not the place where black people live, its the place where POOR people live. hence the snobbish--its fun to make sport of the lower classes. but then they wore afro-wigs and medallions with names associated with black and hispanic people--racist.

they deserve the hard time they are being given.

I suppose you don't like hobo clowns either?

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:3I7MevPuvSZdPM:http://www.jesthealth.com/images/scruffy-hd.jpg

I suppose you don't like hobo clowns either?

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:3I7MevPuvSZdPM:http://www.jesthealth.com/images/scruffy-hd.jpg

im not all that fond of clowns but i try to appreciate their artistry.

i was under the impression that a hobo clown as standard clown persona is not an invitation to laugh at homeless men.

im not all that fond of clowns but i try to appreciate their artistry.

i was under the impression that a hobo clown as standard clown persona is not an invitation to laugh at homeless men.

it's a character clown, but some people do have issue with the idea that they get laughs by pretending to be homeless.


EDIT: also I was thinking....isn't it usually the rich rap stars that do that ghetto fabulous thing, I mean none of the kids in my neighborhood can afford to do that (yes I do live in a black neighborhood and no I don't often see 40's and fur coats around here)

so anyway, what's the difference with that and the "rocker" parties I went to as a kid?

Ghetto is a race?

it seems both racist and snobbish (classist) to me.



the ghetto is not the place where black people live, its the place where POOR people live. hence the snobbish--its fun to make sport of the lower classes. but then they wore afro-wigs and medallions with names associated with black and hispanic people--racist.

they deserve the hard time they are being given.

I really don't think they were trying to suggest that all black people live in the "ghetto" or that only black people live in the ghetto. They were using the popular culture of the "ghetto" in their party. What with hip hop/rap etc., all exclaiming about life in ghettos, and dressing like "gangstas" I am really not surprised that some white kids want to run with it. This may be a step above Mexicans being offended by Speedy Gonzales or the Taco Bell dog.

Ghetto is a race?

Ghetto is getting to be almost a culture it seems, given the movies, music that are out these days.

I really don't think they were trying to suggest that all black people live in the "ghetto" or that only black people live in the ghetto. They were using the popular culture of the "ghetto" in their party. What with hip hop/rap etc., all exclaiming about life in ghettos, and dressing like "gangstas" I am really not surprised that some white kids want to run with it. This may be a step above Mexicans being offended by Speedy Gonzales or the Taco Bell dog.



Ghetto is getting to be almost a culture it seems, given the movies, music that are out these days.

i wasnt trying to say that they were. i was saying there are IMO 2 offenses. the mocking of poor people AND the mocking of a certain segment of the african american and hispanic american population.

if they had worn "ghetto" clothing and accessories but had left off the afro wigs and "pablito" gold medalions, they would have no had any problems with the school administration. its OK in the US to mock lower class people. its not ok to mock other races.

as new-ish students they must not have realized that the school had had some trouble with more seriously racist incidents a couple of years ago.

I really don't think they were trying to suggest that all black people live in the "ghetto" or that only black people live in the ghetto. They were using the popular culture of the "ghetto" in their party. What with hip hop/rap etc., all exclaiming about life in ghettos, and dressing like "gangstas" I am really not surprised that some white kids want to run with it. This may be a step above Mexicans being offended by Speedy Gonzales or the Taco Bell dog.

Ghetto is getting to be almost a culture it seems, given the movies, music that are out these days.

"Ghetto" is actually a subculture that's fast becoming the dominant culture among American youth. I grew up in that culture.

I don't like the way it's assumed that ghetto is equivalent to "acting black" because I think it's unfair stereotyping of black folks like the ones I grew up with. Some of them were what I would call ghetto, and some weren't. It kinda pisses me off the way the word ghetto is used so casually to describe anything of lower quality or even unconventionality. A ghetto is a very particular kind of place to my mind, dangerous, poverty-stricken, run-down, full of addicts and dealers and jackers.

I wish I knew about it in advance. I would have gotten a few people to drive by in an old cadillac and shoot at them. You know, for that touch of realism. :)
This is without a doubt a thread winning post!! :D

And in other news, the dean of the law school at UT has decided that only minorities live in ghettos...
I might disagree with you about electricity(other thread) but you get the real point here.

Not only the Dean, but the people complaining as well.
Why are 40 bottles a minority item?
Orthe name Tyrone, or La'Shawn or La'Steve or Tequila(as a proper name)...wait!!! because they are associated with a specific peoples, and accurately so--the problem is not the stereotyping the problem is the cultures failure to exceed the stereotype. get up, stand up---and please shut up.

"Ghetto" is actually a subculture that's fast becoming the dominant culture among American youth. I grew up in that culture.

I don't like the way it's assumed that ghetto is equivalent to "acting black" because I think it's unfair stereotyping of black folks like the ones I grew up with. Some of them were what I would call ghetto, and some weren't. It kinda pisses me off the way the word ghetto is used so casually to describe anything of lower quality or even unconventionality. A ghetto is a very particular kind of place to my mind, dangerous, poverty-stricken, run-down, full of addicts and dealers and jackers.

Subculture. THAT was the word I was looking for.

Anyway, the "ghetto" personality and look is one only blacks can have, you see a white guy trying and he just looks like an idiot. Simply the way it is. It is in that way "acting black" even if not all blacks actually act that way. I don't see these kids are taking this party as an opportunity to mock blacks. They are simply using "ghetto" as a theme. It may be bad taste but I don't personally see anything malicious involved.

Ghetto Fabulous is part of pop culture. Every hip hop "artist" (drone) out there makes millions off of it with a big chunk of their fans being white kids.

this is hardly racist. Now that other incident where some fraternity through a party in Black Face, that was questionable.

Another fun story out of Texas:



So is this sort of thing racially insensitive, stereotypical, insulting, whatever? Should the dean be getting involved in "chiding" those who attended this party?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15248533/

Well, in NYC, and I'm sure a lot of other integrated cities, there are plenty of 'ghetto' white kids, so that itself isn't a racial thing. The afro's and fake names however I thought put it a bit over the top. It's just one step below blackface.

So why don't the black and hispanic students just through a "Trailer Park Avenue" party (mocking both the upper crust and the just plain crusty) in which attendees wear blond newscaster-style wigs or pale skullcaps, Tuxedoes, or tuxedo t-shirts, nametags that read 'Jethro' or 'Nigel', and drink everclear (or 7-up with vodka and call it everclear) or white-wine spritzers?

Well, in NYC, and I'm sure a lot of other integrated cities, there are plenty of 'ghetto' white kids, so that itself isn't a racial thing. The afro's and fake names however I thought put it a bit over the top. It's just one step below blackface.

So why don't the black and hispanic students just through a "Trailer Park Avenue" party (mocking both the upper crust and the just plain crusty) in which attendees wear blond newscaster-style wigs or pale skullcaps, Tuxedoes, or tuxedo t-shirts, nametags that read 'Jethro' or 'Nigel', and drink everclear (or 7-up with vodka and call it everclear) or white-wine spritzers?

Do you see Trailer Park styles dominating the clothing stores? Trailer Park images in music, movies and games for the young? Trailer Park celebrities? No. Billions are made off of this Ghetto Fabulous image. It is not racist when money is being made, with people running around with golden chalices in hand, Silk robes, submissive nympho women and diamond "grills" glued to their teeth, so how is it racist when a party is thrown emulating exactly what the industry itself sells and is profiting off of? Bill Cosby, of all people, is accused of being an uncle tom when he questions this recent phenomena. Rap Moguls who profit off of this seem to be the new black leaders of today and they say its ok...and everyone else listens to them apparently.

The problem with the University of Texas (as a recent May graduate) is that fraternities at the school have a very high propensity of throwing parties that may easily be construed as racially insensitive. I know it happened at least a handful of times when I was a student. There have still been recent issues with people egging the Martin Luther King, Jr. statue. The campus overall tends to be pretty liberal (especially when taking the rest of the state into consideration), but there will always be people who are insensitive to other cultures/races out there who will inevitably get in charge of planning the parties.

I also totally agree on the comment about the party also being insensitive based on class. I am now a law student (not at UT) and I am surrounded by "upper crust" classmates who come from the upper classes of society. They drive expensive cars and don't understand what it's like to be poor (they also assume that *all* their classmates are likewise rolling in the dough, which is just not true, there are a few of us "middle" or "lower" class students stuck in there).

I think the wigs and the racial names were over the top and insensitive.

I also think that certain methods of making fun of the lower classes are also insensitive and should be avoided (however I wouldn't get my panties in a wad over a trailer park party).

Just my two cents.

If the party was on school property or was in any way funded by the school, he had every right to chide them. If it was a private home and privately funded, then, however tasteless and crass it may have been, he had no right.

But the photos — in which partygoers carried 40-ounce bottles of malt liquor and wore Afro wigs, necklaces with large medallions and name tags bearing traditionally black and Hispanic names — upset some black law students, said Sophia Lecky, president of the Thurgood Marshall Legal Society.

the ghetto is not the place where black people live, its the place where POOR people live. hence the snobbish--its fun to make sport of the lower classes. but then they wore afro-wigs and medallions with names associated with black and hispanic people--racist.

Oh right, so picking on black/hispanic people is a bad thing, but mocking the seventies and all of us who lived through them is perfectly acceptable in your book?

im not all that fond of clowns but i try to appreciate their artistry.

i was under the impression that a hobo clown as standard clown persona is not an invitation to laugh at homeless men.


Im not sure that you have the right impression. Im a fan of hobo clowns, especially Red Skelton, and quite a few of the jokes and gags are indeed associated with indigence. Same holds true of much of Charlie Chaplin's work. (Im aware he wasnt a clown per se but he was doing a lot of the same things in film that a clown does in front of an audience)

Comedy in film about not having money was never so popular in the US as during the depression. To some degree the popularity was probably because it was a bit cathartic for some dirt poor families with little hope of ever having much better to be able to save enough pennies to see a movie which allowed them to make light of and laugh at their condition. For some this lightens the emotional load a little and helps the struggle. Others probably disliked and resented stereotypical comedic film depictions of soup lines and straw bosses and holes in shoes and funky repairs or Oklahoma Crude style engineering of houses and infrastructure. Everybody is different and no comedy is possible without some pain.

For those who got a burr under their saddle from being made fun of huge extravaganza flicks which led to or included huge success stories were omnipresent and also very popular in the US during the depression. Some people need pipe dreams more than a laugh I suppose. To each their own.

Just as there were films which did'nt show poor folk in a comedic light there are also working class clowns which we might chose to see rather than seeing a hobo clown. So really there is no need for anyone's empathetic heart to be broken or delicate sensibilities to be offended by a clown who spoofs the indigent. We neednt and we shouldnt accomplish this by descrying hobo clowns however, we should accomplish it by merely not going out of our way to see a hobo clown if we know that we will be offended by their speil. To each their own.

Most of my real ghetto friends, as well as my black and spanish friends who are not ghetto would laugh at them, and take very little offense, so, I don't think that I will. Dumb, but not offensive to me.

Another fun story out of Texas:



So is this sort of thing racially insensitive, stereotypical, insulting, whatever? Should the dean be getting involved in "chiding" those who attended this party?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15248533/

I was unaware that "ghetto fab" was confined to 'black' persons.

Reckon I'll get the same crap for my "Asian Grim Reaper" costume on Wednesday? >_>

Reckon I'll get the same crap for my "Asian Grim Reaper" costume on Wednesday? >_>

heh, I'd hope not. People need to lighten the hell up. If you can't enjoy stereotypes, life would be that much more boring.

Im not sure that you have the right impression. Im a fan of hobo clowns, especially Red Skelton, and quite a few of the jokes and gags are indeed associated with indigence. Same holds true of much of Charlie Chaplin's work. (Im aware he wasnt a clown per se but he was doing a lot of the same things in film that a clown does in front of an audience)

Comedy in film about not having money was never so popular in the US as during the depression. To some degree the popularity was probably because it was a bit cathartic for some dirt poor families with little hope of ever having much better to be able to save enough pennies to see a movie which allowed them to make light of and laugh at their condition. For some this lightens the emotional load a little and helps the struggle. Others probably disliked and resented stereotypical comedic film depictions of soup lines and straw bosses and holes in shoes and funky repairs or Oklahoma Crude style engineering of houses and infrastructure. Everybody is different and no comedy is possible without some pain.

For those who got a burr under their saddle from being made fun of huge extravaganza flicks which led to or included huge success stories were omnipresent and also very popular in the US during the depression. Some people need pipe dreams more than a laugh I suppose. To each their own.

Just as there were films which did'nt show poor folk in a comedic light there are also working class clowns which we might chose to see rather than seeing a hobo clown. So really there is no need for anyone's empathetic heart to be broken or delicate sensibilities to be offended by a clown who spoofs the indigent. We neednt and we shouldnt accomplish this by descrying hobo clowns however, we should accomplish it by merely not going out of our way to see a hobo clown if we know that we will be offended by their speil. To each their own.


maybe its the element of snobbishness that is missing. that "we can laugh at this guy because he is so low and disgusting thing". it seems to me that most of the time we are invited to laugh at the human condition. poor, lazy, down on your luck, getting by by using unusual solutions to problems, presented in such a way that we relate to the "hobo". we have done things like that or we know people who do. we laugh because we relate

the little tramp is a great example. he is down and out but he and people like him arent being mocked. we arent invited to consider ourselves superior to the indigent. if anything we are invited to consider ourselves superior to the rich, intolerant or bullying.

im not a devotee of clowns but i really dont see hobo clowns as an invitation to mock the homeless. red skelton had a hobo character, freddie the freeloader, that certainly wasnt insensitive to the plight of the poor. i dont think a character can become "beloved" if the intent is to show him and people like him in a bad light.

in this texas case, they arent celebrating ghetto style but are mocking those who live this lifestyle. they are mocking those blacks and hispanics who dress this way. if they had just dressed up "ghetto" without the racial references, it might have ended up as an "invitaion to laugh at ourselves and our style choices". probably not, but it might have.

Reckon I'll get the same crap for my "Asian Grim Reaper" costume on Wednesday? >_>

what makes it asian?

what makes it asian?

The scythe was made in China.

Another fun story out of Texas:



So is this sort of thing racially insensitive, stereotypical, insulting, whatever?
It might be. It could be racially insensitive, insulting stereotyping or it equally it could be subversive of propaganda.

Based on what was in the article it sounds like it was insensitive, and clearly about stereotypes. Insulting consists of two aspects, intent and perception, I'd say it has the potential to be insulting to a large number of people so far as the latter is concerned. Whether or not there was intent to insult (or intent to not avoid likely and predictable insult), is harder to determine, but I'd say, if I were to take a guess, that in the case of some party-goers the answer is yes, and in the case of others no.

Should the dean be getting involved in "chiding" those who attended this party?

If school property, school funded or 'resourced' clubs/groups or school funds/resources, etc were used in any way, sure. Otherwise, as a private person he may say as he wishes. As the Dean he ought to not use his position to individually address individuals doing their own thing on their own time in their 'own places' with his own stuff. It's not at all inappropriate though to comment generally on a party of this kind in his capacity as Dean, so long as he is careful to negotiate the distinction between people (who happen to be students) and students. The first group are not beholden to the Dean on their own time so long as they are not involving the school (for instance using school property, or conducting activities as a group endorsed or supported in some way by the school).

So it would be appropriate for the Dean to write in a school publication that the party had happened, he was disappointed students from the school were involved...etc..., but he'd need to not name names and he'd need to make certain that the context was one of the institution giving an opinion, rather than invoking some kind of authority. So he can condem the behaviour and appeal for better conduct, more open minds, what-have-you. He can explain what is wrong with the behaviour, why he personally, and/or the university find it dismaying. But he cant utilise his authority as a Dean to control the behaviour of people just because they happen to be students at his school.

The only racist thing here is the assumption made that a ghetto theme has anything at all to do with blacks as a race.

Exactly right.