NationStates Jolt Archive

Back in the days of Goldwater, Conservative could be in the Republican party and feel comfortable. Conservative believes in small government, low taxes, and social freedom. However, nowanddays it seems like the Republican party is moving away from that message. Hence why there are now alot of Neo-Conservative like Bushie in the Republican party. Since the message of the Republican party have basically distance itself from the message of the Conservative movement, would it be fair to say that Conservative are leaving the party? I'm a Conservative and I know I left when Bush got re-elected. What do yall think?

I hear alot of people bringing up Goldwater lately, even the Democrats. Instead of a conservative departure, we may be looking at a conservative resurgence to take back the republican party- even with assistance by democrats! :eek:

Conservative believes in small government...and social freedom.

no they don't

I hear alot of people bringing up Goldwater lately, even the Democrats. Instead of a conservative departure, we may be looking at a conservative resurgence to take back the republican party- even with assistance by democrats! :eek:
No, what I suspect more is that we're finally going to see one of the longest running parties in the history of the United States crash and another--probably a party formed by the numerous true conservatives that left it--take its place. Hopefully during that fall time we can get a couple others in there as well.

DAMN the fact that I'm only nineteen. If I had the money and the influance I'd be forming a real-life Human Rights Party this second, lemme tell ya.

Instead of a conservative departure, we may be looking at a conservative resurgence to take back the republican party- even with assistance by democrats! :eek:

except, of course, the current leadership of the repubs is whole-heartedly supported by the vast majority of people that identify as conservatives in the country. in fact, they are the only source of support.

I hear alot of people bringing up Goldwater lately, even the Democrats. Instead of a conservative departure, we may be looking at a conservative resurgence to take back the republican party- even with assistance by democrats! :eek:

Yep. The Conservative Crack-Up is really a Crack-Down.

Today, when Ah-nold, Giuliani, & McCain are touted as 'conservative' candidates, it makes me realize...Holy Crap, I don't have a candidate. So I might as well vote Third Party.

Which will most likely result in Perot-like undermining in national races, but hey...maybe the GOP will get the point then.

no they don't

Ok, I'm going to make this very simple for you.

Bush =/= Conservative

Neo-Conservative =/= Conservative.

Conservative do believe in small government, low taxes, and social freedom. If you do not believe me, go go your local libarary and read Goldwater's book The conscience of a majority.

Goldwater explains the Conservative ideology so that even a simpleton can understand it.

Conservative do believe in small government, low taxes, and social freedom. If you do not believe me, go go your local libarary and read Goldwater's book The conscience of a majority.

Goldwater explains the Conservative ideology so that even a simpleton can understand it.

i don't care in the slightest what conservatives claim to believe. their actions and history speak more than loud enough, and they directly contradict the modern conservative marketing campaign.

i don't care in the slightest what conservatives claim to believe. their actions and history speak more than loud enough, and they directly contradict the modern conservative marketing campaign.

How far back have you gone when you "reasearch" Conservative history?

no they don't

Goldwater conservatives (or South Park Republicans if you want to be "hip") were all about keeping the government small and out of peoples business. Totally different from the neo-cons of today.

except, of course, the current leadership of the repubs is whole-heartedly supported by the vast majority of people that identify as conservatives in the country. in fact, they are the only source of support.

Ok, what's your source?

Goldwater conservatives (or South Park Republicans if you want to be "hip") were all about keeping the government small and out of peoples business. Totally different from the neo-cons of today.

Thank you!

How far back have you gone when you "reasearch" Conservative history?

as far back as one can reasonably go and still have some sort of similar institutions and dynamics at play - a couple hundred years. though i can talk about earlier stuff too, it's just harder to directly compare.

as far back as one can reasonably go and still have some sort of similar institutions and dynamics at play - a couple hundred years. though i can talk about earlier stuff too, it's just harder to directly compare.

Well to truly define "modern Conservative" you need to start with the New Deal and how the Old Rights and Classical Liberals were upset with the New Deal because they viewed it as an infringment upon the economy and the lives of private citizens. Not only that, but an expansion of government power.

Ok, what's your source?

pretty much every poll that has had a break down of bush approval by ideological self-id that has come out in this millenia. it always breaks down to have about 70%+ of conservatives supporting and maybe 30% of moderates (most of whom are probably eut style 'moderates') and negligible levels of support from liberals, with socialists/monarchists/etc not having enough identifiers to make the list at all. i'm sure zogby or someone has a recent example available somewhere.

pretty much every poll that has had a break down of bush approval by ideological self-id that has come out in this millenia. it always breaks down to have about 70%+ of conservatives supporting and maybe 30% of moderates (most of whom are probably eut style 'moderates') and negligible levels of support from liberals, with socialists/monarchists/etc not having enough identifiers to make the list at all. i'm sure zogby or someone has a recent example available somewhere.

I find it funny when someone identifies themselves as Conservative, because A. They think Bush is Conservative (Ha!), they think the Republican Party is Conservative (double Ha!), or they think they are Conservative because they think either A or B. Theres also the people who listen to Rush Limbaugh, but they fall under C really.

Well to truly define "modern Conservative" you need to start with the New Deal and how the Old Rights and Classical Liberals were upset with the New Deal because they viewed it as an infringment upon the economy and the lives of private citizens. Not only that, but an expansion of government power.

though the conservatives of the time and slightly before didn't seem to have much issue with kkk lynchings and the like. oh, and they also seemed to be the ones opposed to women's sufferage and in favor of instituting race-based immigration laws.

Goldwater conservatives (or South Park Republicans if you want to be "hip") were all about keeping the government small and out of peoples business. Totally different from the neo-cons of today.

or so they kept saying. even after they got their people elected and those people went an expanded the government immensely and got it way deep into peoples business.

though the conservatives of the time and slightly before didn't seem to have much issue with kkk lynchings and the like. oh, and they also seemed to be the ones opposed to women's sufferage and in favor of instituting race-based immigration laws.

Ok, do you have any sources to back this up? and I want links, not what you "saw", I want real source that I can look at myself.

The fact of the matter is, Americans are conservative. Even the liberal ones. But the word 'conservative' had been almost irreperably damaged by its policies, so instead of calling themselves straight conservatives they call themselves 'progressive'. I'm sure someone will challenge that, but Goldwater conservatism and the modern progressive movement are alot alike on many issues.

or so they kept saying. even after they got their people elected and those people went an expanded the government immensely and got it way deep into peoples business.

True, but you have to take the neo-con movement into account. It marked a huge turning point in the party. But pretty much anyone who wants to get elected has to promise smaller government. This just proves (again) that politicians are liars.

The fact of the matter is, Americans are conservative. Even the liberal ones. But the word 'conservative' had been almost irreperably damaged by its policies, so instead of calling themselves straight conservatives they call themselves 'progressive'. I'm sure someone will challenge that, but Goldwater conservatism and the modern progressive movement are alot alike on many issues.

You're making me laugh. Barry Goldwater was not 'progressive'. Republicans are not 'progressive'. I suspect you of being a plant - the sort of plant who attempts to retard political discussion by massacreing the verbiage with the unstated goal of confusing the issues.

Ok, do you have any sources to back this up? and I want links, not what you "saw", I want real source that I can look at myself.

not off hand. but i'm sure i could dig some up - it's fairly obvious when you think about it. the 'conservative coalition' that formed around opposing the new deal was made up of republicans that never got down with teddy r's and fighting bob lafollete's (never mind the personal issues between the two of them) progressives, and southern democrats.

southern democrats and conservative republicans that were southern democrats and conservative republicans at the height of the kkk's power - when the klan was directly involved in the running of numerous states, and elected a whole pile of (conservative) governors, senators, representatives, and even maybe a president or two. it was southern democratic senators that made the last ditch effort to stall the 19th amendment as best they could. and nearly everybody got down with the immigration act of 1924, which created the race and nationality based quota system for immigration - it wasn't members of the future conservative coalition that were the vocal minority opposition.

Back in the days of Goldwater, Conservative could be in the Republican party and feel comfortable. Conservative believes in small government, low taxes, and social freedom. However, nowanddays it seems like the Republican party is moving away from that message. Hence why there are now alot of Neo-Conservative like Bushie in the Republican party. Since the message of the Republican party have basically distance itself from the message of the Conservative movement, would it be fair to say that Conservative are leaving the party? I'm a Conservative and I know I left when Bush got re-elected. What do yall think?

Conservatives aren't going anywhere. I heard the same thing said in the mid 1990s and I heard of a similar rift in the democratic party a few years ago. Nobody is going anywhere. The Conservatives stick by Bush. sure they may be upset with him and the congress on alot of matters but they stick with him on the issues he does support, namely the tax cuts. If the Democrats stopped running such liberals like Gore and Kerry or have Dean and Pelosi as their party's face then the conservatives would not be as energized to get out and vote Republican.

But seeing how Hillary leads every poll for Democratic nominee hopefuls, it looks like Conservatives will be as energized as ever to vote Republican. And the Neo-Conservatives are much more effective at winning and mobilizing votes than your average Goldwater type of conservative.