NationStates Jolt Archive

North Korea claims to have tested a nuclear weapon, but this assertion has not been unequivocally proved as of yet. Do you believe that North Korea has a nuclear weapon? Poll coming.

I do not doubt that they've got nuclear devices, capable of making a big boom, but I don't yet know if they're capable of delivering the things in a combat situation. I don't know if they've got effective nuclear weapons.

Probably. Run for the hills!

yes and its a good thing

I suspect that they're most potentially effective "delivery" method is probably the nuclear landmine concept. Set it on the ground, retreat, and let the other guys get into the general vicinity of the bomb, and then set it off. I don't think that their military has the ability to actually toss a working bomb (because of the problems their missiles have, and the obvious problems they had with this recent test) at Seoul, Tokyo or anywhere else in particular.

Aren't I awfully nitpicky on this subject?

Under the circumstances, I think the appropriate international reaction should be the same whether that nuclear test was successful, unsuccessful or faked.

yes and its a good thing

How?

no, Im guessing not. Even if they do its not a big deal

How?

They oppose America! That automatically makes them good! Duh!

probably not considering this is North Korea and also because if they do have the nuke they just used it :D

Yes, it is quite likely.

But, the real question is "DO I care?"

Not a fecking bit.

Whether or not the test was a fake. It's most likely they have a developing nuclear program at the least.

I believe they have them, but they're crap.

I personally think the most likely explanation for what happened with the test was that the thing didn't work properly. Whether it was just the trigger device that exploded and not the actual warhead, or whether the warhead exploded but something went wrong and not the entire material got caught up in the chain reaction - apparently it was a pretty small explosion for a nuke.

And knowing about North Korea's quality manufacturing...

My prediction is that they'll rework the bomb and test again, and eventually they will work. For the time being though, they'll be happy to pretend that everything went just fine.

They oppose America! That automatically makes them good! Duh!

I don't like you.

Darn! Now I see the first option on the poll... :rolleyes:

It's quite likely that North Korea has nukular weapons.

Either that or the radioactivity "somebody" "scoobed up" "somewhere" over North Korea (How did they find out that there was radioactivity in the air over North Korea?) was "planted" there via airplane.

That's the bluff I'd try. They come with their planes and expect some kind of mini-fallout and that's what they're gonna get.

I'd recommend the playlist of Doom:

01 Motörhead - March Ör Die
02 Manowar - Hail And Kill
03 Black Sabbath - War Pigs
04 Motörhead - Death Or Glory
05 Vital Remains - The Trooper
06 Manowar - Fight Until We Die
07 The Chemical Brothers - Galvanize
08 Megadeth - Symphony of Destruction
09 Black Sabbath - Electric Funeral
10 R.E.M. - It’s The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)
11 Milltown Demons - Brains Brains Brains (http://www.twilightcreationsinc.com/zombies/milltowndemons.mp3)
12 Metallica - Nothing Else Matters

Darn! Now I see the first option on the poll... :rolleyes:

It's quite likely that North Korea has nukular weapons.

Either that or the radioactivity "somebody" "scoobed up" "somewhere" over North Korea (How did they find out that there was radioactivity in the air over North Korea?) was "planted" there via airplane.

That's the bluff I'd try. They come with their planes and expect some kind of mini-fallout and that's what they're gonna get.

I'd recommend the playlist of Doom:

01 Motörhead - March Ör Die
02 Manowar - Hail And Kill
03 Black Sabbath - War Pigs
04 Motörhead - Death Or Glory
05 Vital Remains - The Trooper
06 Manowar - Fight Until We Die
07 The Chemical Brothers - Push The Button
08 Black Sabbath - Electric Funeral
09 R.E.M. - It’s The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)
10 Milltown Demons - Brains Brains Brains (http://www.twilightcreationsinc.com/zombies/milltowndemons.mp3)

No sense of art. Flight of the Valkyries all the way. It's the only real way to end the world.

I think they're close, but they obviously failed in that first test. But now that they've been totally sanctioned, they don't have anywhere to go.

USA! USA! USA!

I think they're close, but they obviously failed in that first test. But now that they've been totally sanctioned, they don't have anywhere to go.

USA! USA! USA!

I'm more partial to America, Fuck yeah! myself.

It is already known that they have nuclear weapons capability..........yet they lack an effective ballistaic delivery system. Their technology is on a par with probably the UK/US/USSR in the 50's to early 60's, i.e free fall gravity bomb delivery.

As for the test being a failure, that is more than likely western propaganda as Russian sources and the UN appear to believe that the test was a success.

When the French were testing nukes in the Pacific (up 'til 91) I found it perplexing. Well, it made me damn angry, actually, but one of the reasons it made me angry was how unnecessary it seemed to be. Some of the weapons were almost certainly niche weapons ... neutron bombs, bunker busters, stuff we don't know about. But they seemed to test way too many.

Now I think: whose bombs were they testing? And how much were they paid for the use of "their" atolls?

We're stressing about two quite poor but militaristic countries acquiring entry-level nukes (Iran and N Korea.) Some people are even taking seriously the idea that economic sanctions can keep any country from acquiring sixty-year old technology and the industry to build it.

I know it's a recurrent theme of mine, but I'm going to mention the Cold War again. "Ive got the Bomb!" "Well look, I've got it too!" "I've got a bigger bomb now!" "Look, I've got one of them too!" "I've got more of them!" "I've got a better missile, with bombs on!" "I've got so many bombs, I can blow up all of your missiles!" "Not if they're in submarines!" "Yes, if I shoot them down from space!" ... at which point one party went broke. And the other party found that all that money invested in weapons was a dead loss unless they were used for something. ;)

Imagine you have one clearly defined regional enemy. You share a land border, say, and you fought them for your very existence in the last half-century. The worst scenario is they have WMD's and you don't. The best is that neither of you do, and you're both sure about that. Both of you having the option to wreak massive indiscriminate damage on the other at the push of a button is a situation you want to put off for as long as possible. After that it's mindless escalation until one of the parties 'folds' or the unthinkable happens.

Far better to have the weapons, and not tell anyone until there's something in it for you. For instance, them putting all their troops on your border and evacuating their embassy. THEN you test your bomb.

Back to North Korea. And China. North Korea cannot be happy, cannot be proud about the Korean War, about having their asses covered by China. China would really not be happy with a unified Korea ... US troops on one of their land borders (look at China, they're cushy. The himalayas, mongolia, the sea, and all the good bits of china away from the land borders. Few countries are harder to invade ... well, the US. Perhaps Russia.)

Would China lend Korea a nuke to test? Yes. And progressively better ones, though actually giving them the technology would be rash. Would Korea let China pollute their country so Korea could pretend to having nukes? Hell yes.

It was a nuke. It was probably a twenty-year old Chinese nuke that they wanted to test for viability but didn't want to admit to still caring about.
I'm mad, I know. But if I were China, I'd much rather Korea tested one of my old nukes now for propaganda purposes, than a real North Korean nuke a few years from now, when the US might be prepared to do something about it.

Any state with a muppet in charge ... is a puppet state! :D

Would China lend Korea a nuke to test? Yes.
That's a bit of a strange jump to make from what you were saying.

China is first and foremost interested in stability in East Asia. A North Korean nuke does not fit in with that, and that's why China has agreed to sanctions (although they were very careful not to risk the regime actually breaking down - they don't want to deal with the refugees).

If you ask me, the Chinese sold the nuke to Pakistan back in the day because they could use the money and to create a feasible counterweight to India.

Pakistani scientists have since then sold the technology to whomever would pay. Including North Korea. So yeah, the design would be an old Chinese one, but the Chinese wouldn't have sold it to them, because they don't actually gain anything from a puppet that's no longer reliable waving the nuclear stick around in their region.

I'm more partial to America, Fuck yeah! myself.

America, Fuck Yeah!
We're comin' again to save the motherfuckin' day yeah!
America, Fuck Yeah!
Freedom is the only way
Terrorists, your game is through
'Cause now you have to answer to...


I couldn't help it.

America, Fuck Yeah!
We're comin' again to save the motherfuckin' day yeah!
America, Fuck Yeah!
Freedom is the only way
Terrorists, your game is through
'Cause now you have to answer to...


I couldn't help it.

ballad vers. is even better :D

From what it seems, they have faulty nuclear weapons. So I guess they aren't a nuclear power - yet.

Yeah, I think they do. I think they're laughably sub-par, but yeah. They have nukes the size of semi trucks, you can't fit that on a Sortofapenis missile

Yeah, I think they do. I think they're laughably sub-par, but yeah. They have nukes the size of semi trucks, you can't fit that on a Sortofapenis missile
Indeed, it would be the warhead that's the problem, not the missile. The Pakistani primary delivery system for their warheads (which I would assume are of a similar, although more advanced, design) is the Ghauri missile.

And the Ghauri is a North Korean system the Pakistanis bought (in exchange for something, perhaps?*). So the North Koreans certainly have a short- and medium-range delivery system. The hard part is to make a working nuke small enough to fit on there (payload is about 750kg).

*"Perhaps" is maybe not strong enough a word.
Who officially "developed" the Ghauri missile? According to wiki, it was Khan (Kahuta) Research Laboratories - headed by one Dr. A.Q. Khan.
And who is Dr. A.Q. Khan? Well, he should be sitting in jail for having sold nuclear technology all over the planet, as the Pakistani Government admitted. But Musharraf decided to pardon him, and no one has been proescuted so far AFAIK.

So yeah, that's where they got their nuke from.