NationStates Jolt Archive

I have a question for Americans and us Europeans.

I live in America now and hear a lot of anger towards Europeans, the most common thing I hear people say is "Why didn't they or don't they support us?".
These lines are often followed by some bad word following a European nations name or name of the peoples in those nations.

My veiw is this.
1. European nations are sovreign, if they do not support you that is because it is not in that nations best interest. Europe is not a free ticket to internation support nor are European militaries a reserve unit for America to call up when the next war comes along

2. What connection do Americans see with Europe that makes them think that we would send our sons to a war they are fighting or even started?

3. America is not a "team player" when it comes to international issues, to name one thing The Kyoto Accord. With over 30% of the earths pollution I would think that that single nation would help save themselves instead of thinking about money.

4. You have US military bases all over the world, many see this as a form of occupation or a force that has is hostile. Also your soldiers are by far the worst educated soldiers on the planet, you send hooligans who did some high school or none to nations as ambassadors of your nation and all they do is cause trouble. This is a major reason for anti-americanism in many nations world wide.

No means No!!

What is it about America that makes you angry and what is it that makes America think we will support any of their ideals or actions?

It's your duty to support us because we saved your ass in WWII.

Well, in fairness, this question could so be easily be reversed; why is it that Europeans somehow feel that America 'owes' them a duty to do anything at all?

If you're saying America must accept the sovereignty of European nations, then equally Europe must accept America's right to say "screw you!"

I can't claim to care what Americans think of Europeans, no more than they care what I think of Americans.

I'm having such an apathetic night.

It's your duty to support us because we saved your ass in WWII.

Thats a joke right?

Well, in fairness, this question could so be easily be reversed; why is it that Europeans somehow feel that America 'owes' them a duty to do anything at all?

If you're saying America must accept the sovereignty of European nations, then equally Europe must accept America's right to say "screw you!"

Fine but there has not been one thing that a major European nation has had the need for any American help.

Fine but there has not been one thing that a major European nation has had the need for any American help.
I hope that was a joke too.

I hope that was a joke too.

Name me one.

Thats a joke right?

I don't know. Is it?

The U.K helped America in Iraq. Anyway Europe rules so :upyours: America

America is also a "Soveriegn Nation"
We are not answerable to you for our actions.

Our Military forces are among the best trained in the world.
Who do you think you are to critisize?
Have "YOU" ever been in the Military?

How dare you set your self up as the Judge and Jury of world wide politics.
You have condemned us without the right to a fair tril or allowing us to set up our own defense.

*rude, arrogant and selfish people need to have more patience with the rest of us*

I don't know. Is it?

You lost 400.000 soldiers KIA, MIA or WIA.

For years Europe fought alone and lost millions, the war would have been won by a European force at some point.

America is also a "Soveriegn Nation"
We are not answerable to you for our actions.

Our Military forces are among the best trained in the world.
Who do you think you are to critisize?
Have "YOU" ever been in the Military?

How dare you set your self up as the Judge and Jury of world wide politics.
You have condemned us without the right to a fair tril or allowing us to set up our own defense.

*rude, arrogant and selfish people need to have more patience with the rest of us*

They have a little thing called conscription in some nations, I did two years with the Royal Guard. An elite unit and the training we got was by far better then US regulars and even many "elite" untis.
There are many POLICE units in Europe better trained then Rangers, Seals, Delta etc.

You lost 400.000 soldiers KIA, MIA or WIA.

For years Europe fought alone and lost millions, the war would have been won by a European force at some point.

Yep. Either Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia. Take your pick, brownshirts or bread lines.

Name me one.

oh, you know WWII and your economy.

Aren't Americans british anyway, our creation?... I think thats what Independence day was about anyway feel free too shout at me.:upyours:

Yep. Either Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia.

You fail to see how strong Britain and other European nations were, many nations invaded had underground fighters that would have won a major win and forced any armed military out.

Yay!!

It's the "Daily Dick-Waving" Thread! w00T! Go Team!

If you tell us where to go on matters of national sovereignty then we’d accept, I think the only thing we think you shouldn’t do that on is the environment.

If you could put a bubble around the US where your polluted air didn’t leave your borders then we’d agree to that too I think but it doesn’t so indirectly it’s kind of undermining every other nation’s sovereignty in the long term by potentially… you know… speeding them along to their deaths.

However, I’m actually quite pro-US and a great many of my friends are… I don’t know anybody who believes the US “owes” us anything except extremists or new students (they tend to want to become involved without being aware so the result is grasping to perceived populist concepts). The fact that your nation is an ideology come to life at every level is wonderful, and I’m a neo-liberal so the climate suits me perfectly economically. ;)

Conversely, I agree that we owe the US nothing. I can't understand the negative reactions to nations such as France not providing you support... and the WWII argument that some people do actually mean seriously in conversation is irritating, France doesn't still claim you owe them for the War of Independence do they?:rolleyes:

EDIT: Oh god...I can't stand the topic this thread is heading towards :(

You fail to see how strong Britain and other European nations were, many nations invaded had underground fighters that would have won a major win and forced any armed military out.

Sure, whatever gets you through the day.

Yay!!

It's the "Daily Dick-Waving" Thread! w00T! Go Team!

You win the thread!
*waves dick*

You lost 400.000 soldiers KIA, MIA or WIA.

For years Europe fought alone and lost millions, the war would have been won by a European force at some point.

Funny how Russia is only 'European' when theyre helping you out.
Funny how you would be speaking Russian by this point if the US hadnt intervened in the war.
Or do you think that Stalin's steamroller would politly stop at the French border?

Oh, wait, I forgot, it was the UK that won the war in Europe. Because the English win every war theyre involved in. Wars they lose are other peoples fault.

You fail to see how strong Britain and other European nations were, many nations invaded had underground fighters that would have won a major win and forced any armed military out.

Britain stood alone and was on the verge of collapse, if any european power could have defeated the 3rd Reich it was the USSR, which is hardly better. The french resistance, by far the most effective, only did as much damage to their nazi oppressors as 1 army battalion.

oh, you know WWII and your economy.

Did you fight in WWII, NO so stop that bs. Trade with you is luxury, so it is also when trading with other nations. It's not really something needed if you keep major money out of it. You trade with Europe too so that is not really a great fight.

You win the thread!
*waves dick*

*waves vibrator* Tis the best I could do... [depressed tone] Woooo, go U!S!A! God bless America and damn the Europeans. :p [/depressed tone]

Name me one.

The liberation of Holland (and, yes, the Brits were there as well, and paid a relatively heavier price than the Americans. Just want to make that clear before I hear about it.).

Yeah, but--

Ah, bloody hell. Forgot to unzip my pants.

I'm no good at this type of thing.

Did you fight in WWII, NO so stop that bs. Trade with you is luxury, so it is also when trading with other nations. It's not really something needed if you keep major money out of it. You trade with Europe too so that is not really a great fight.

No I didn't which is why I never said so in the first place.

And if you think trade is a superficial aspect of an economy you are seriously delusional.

This thread is silly. The US should learn that Europe doesn't necessarily have to support it in everything, as they have their own opinions. I'd would be nice if Europe would stop assuming that everybody in the US agrees with our government, too.

Yep. Either Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia. Take your pick, brownshirts or bread lines.

Germany had never a chance to win this war.

They began to retreat before D-Day. They couldn't match the manpower of Russia.

And for a western frontier, you didn't need American soldiers. The soldiers of the commenwealth would have been enough to drive them back. It would have last longer, but Germany would have been defeated as well. And Europe wouldn't be totally communistic, too.

America was much more important after the war. The economical help for the western countries was very important.

Britain stood alone and was on the verge of collapse, if any european power could have defeated the 3rd Reich it was the USSR, which is hardly better. The french resistance, by far the most effective, only did as much damage to their nazi oppressors as 1 army battalion.

Netherlands, Poland, Greece, France, Norway, Denmark etc. they all fought in their own way. All of this would have forced Nazi forces out at some point.

Aren't Americans british anyway, our creation?... I think thats what Independence day was about anyway feel free too shout at me.:upyours:

'Your' creation? Dont make me laugh.
If you want to play that game, England is Danish and Germany needs to be returned to the Papal states.

This thread is silly. The US should learn that Europe doesn't necessarily have to support it in everything, as they have their own opinions. I'd would be nice if Europe would stop assuming that everybody in the US agrees with our government, too.

I agree 100% with this post.

Anyway, I thought this thread was going to be a serious discussion. I thought it was going to be about who's military can kick the crap out of the other. Now there's a compelling discussion.

No I didn't which is why I never said so in the first place.

And if you think trade is a superficial aspect of an economy you are seriously delusional.

No I don't, all I'm saying is that the economay is not based on trading with America. Plenty of others to trade with.

You fail to see how strong Britain and other European nations were, many nations invaded had underground fighters that would have won a major win and forced any armed military out.
No dude. I'm no bigger friend of US Foreign Policies than you, but neither France nor Britain could've stopped the Red Army from marching all the way to the Atlantic if it hadn't been for the A-Bomb the Americans gladly provided.

You know the fate of Poland, the Baltic States, Hungary, East Germany etc - that's what the whole of Europe would've been like, even if for some reason Britain had stayed quiet enough for the Soviets not to attack them.

As for me, I think Europe and the US need to find a happy medium. Europe can't project its economic power militarily and is therefore rightfully seen as a bit of a paper tiger by the world (eg Iran). The US can project its power but lacks in sensibility when doing so, and is therefore rightfully seen as a bit of a man-eating tiger one can't come too close to. Neither is helping in achieving foreign policy objectives, so it would make sense for both parties to come together, form some sort of proper strategic partnership and adopt a policy somewhere in the middle between only talking the talk, and walking the walk all the time.

For that to work properly of course the US would have to get Iraq sorted out soon, because while they're there their power projection capabilities are little better than Europe's.

Germany had never a chance to win this war.

They began to retreat before D-Day. They couldn't match the manpower of Russia.

And for a western frontier, you didn't need American soldiers. The soldiers of the commenwealth would have been enough to drive them back. It would have last longer, but Germany would have been defeated as well. And Europe wouldn't be totally communistic, too.

America was much more important after the war. The economical help for the western countries was very important.

How would the soldiers of the commonwealth manage to keep their skies clear of German bombers and how would they manage to land troops on the continent without American supplies of food, fuel, arms and ammunition?

Germany had never a chance to win this war.

They began to retreat before D-Day. They couldn't match the manpower of Russia.

And for a western frontier, you didn't need American soldiers. The soldiers of the commenwealth would have been enough to drive them back. It would have last longer, but Germany would have been defeated as well. And Europe wouldn't be totally communistic, too.

America was much more important after the war. The economical help for the western countries was very important.

Germany lost all hope of winning the war in 1941, before that they had a pretty good chance. Hitler was simply an idiot for attacking Russia.
If he had waited to take on both sides individually, then the war would have been very different.
Although perhaps the Soviets would have jumped in on the side of the allies eventually, but who knows?

Netherlands, Poland, Greece, France, Norway, Denmark etc. they all fought in their own way. All of this would have forced Nazi forces out at some point.
You would have had a point if you had listed yugoslavia, the only country with a truly succesful partisan movement. But Netherland's underground was effective, but it's only task was to provide information to UK and US (which it did well). Ever here of the Warsaw uprising? That was poland's attempt to overthrow Nazi rule. Didnt turn out so well. Germany ruled Greece with an iron fist because it was angery at Greece for delaying the invasion of Operation Barbossa by a key spring month. France made some very successful partisan movements agaisnt german rail lines and communications but with Vichy France a serious uprising was unlikely. Denmark was ruled with much politcal freedoms and was largely left alone during occupation. No motivation for uprising. So no.

Netherlands, Poland, Greece, France, Norway, Denmark etc. they all fought in their own way. All of this would have forced Nazi forces out at some point.

Incorrect!
The Nazi's would simply kill them all. They were getting fairly effecient at finding resistance cells as the war went on. I have little doubt that, givin time, they could stamp out most resistance.
ESPECIALLY if those resistance groups werent getting supplies and support from the US.

You win the thread!
*waves dick*

*snaps photo, posts it all over the net*

XD

As far as I'm concerned America was repaying France for aiding them in their revolutionary war against the British Empire. If it wasn't for those "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" we would all still be British subjects.

*snaps photo, posts it all over the net*

XD

*smiles for photo*

As far as I'm concerned America was repaying France for aiding them in their revolutionary war against the British Empire. If it wasn't for those "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" we would all still be British subjects.

Bah, we gave 'em a chance at revolution to. And what do they go and do?
Launch a huge bloody war against the entire continient led by some short Corsican with an inferiority complex.

Yay!!

It's the "Daily Dick-Waving" Thread! w00T! Go Team!
Aye, it's sad how quickly it became that.

Who needs enemies when you can have friends?

Yay!!

It's the "Daily Dick-Waving" Thread! w00T! Go Team!

ROFL...

Okay, so we've all helped each other out. We all refuse to admit we ever needed help. And we're are all stuck up snobs who hate each other for being stuck up snobs. Moving on...

Aye, it's sad how quickly it became that.

Who needs enemies when you can have friends?


That was the point, stirr up anger in the yanks by being a yank and see what happens. A bunch of monkeys with high school diplomas, the future of American government is here.

Schnippen!!!!!!

I think you're cute.




So, is this just a garden attempt to "get the American's goat" trolling thread or something, because we've had this thread a million and one times.

US+Respecting Sovereignty=incompatible

You lost 400.000 soldiers KIA, MIA or WIA.

For years Europe fought alone and lost millions, the war would have been won by a European force at some point.

Just to say, 400,000 soldiers is a lot smaller than the number of Russians that were killed in the Battle of Stalingrad.

That was the point, stirr up anger in the yanks by being a yank and see what happens. A bunch of monkeys with high school diplomas, the future of American government is here.

I'm not a monkey, I'm a big ape. Also I'm not the future of American government. I don't have the patience or tact to deal with people who anger me.

I think you're cute.




So, is this just a garden attempt to "get the American's goat" trolling thread or something, because we've had this thread a million and one times.

Ah, sorry mate. I'm new here.

I'm not a monkey, I'm a big ape. Also I'm not the future of American government. I don't have the patience or tact to deal with people who anger me.

In general terms that was, not all yanks to be sure.

I'm not a monkey, I'm a big ape. Also I'm not the future of American government. I don't have the patience or tact to deal with people who anger me.

I'm not even a primate. If I had to put myself into a class of animal, I'd say I'm a crustacean.

I'm not even a primate. If I had to put myself into a class of animal, I'd say I'm a crustacean.

Spineless, eh?

Thats a joke right?

Not to many... :(

Spineless, eh?

Yup, I don't need one my skeleton is on the outside.

Yup, I don't need one my skeleton is on the outside.

He's got a point.

Yup, I don't need one my skeleton is on the outside.

Neat.

Just to say, 400,000 soldiers is a lot smaller than the number of Russians that were killed in the Battle of Stalingrad.

And this is a silly statement. Total number dead does not in any way reflect contribution to victory, because, truthfully, warfare is incredibly complex, is affected by tons of variables, and loads of other tasty things.

What would you say if I told you that the US produced over 75% of the total world munitions production during the war? How about the fact that the US killed far more Germans per American than the Soviets killed Germans per Soviet? Don't just fall back on that "boohoo 20 million, Soviets did more" thing.

I have a question for Americans and us Europeans.

I live in America now and hear a lot of anger towards Europeans, the most common thing I hear people say is "Why didn't they or don't they support us?".
These lines are often followed by some bad word following a European nations name or name of the peoples in those nations.

My veiw is this.
1. European nations are sovreign, if they do not support you that is because it is not in that nations best interest. Europe is not a free ticket to internation support nor are European militaries a reserve unit for America to call up when the next war comes along

2. What connection do Americans see with Europe that makes them think that we would send our sons to a war they are fighting or even started?

3. America is not a "team player" when it comes to international issues, to name one thing The Kyoto Accord. With over 30% of the earths pollution I would think that that single nation would help save themselves instead of thinking about money.

4. You have US military bases all over the world, many see this as a form of occupation or a force that has is hostile. Also your soldiers are by far the worst educated soldiers on the planet, you send hooligans who did some high school or none to nations as ambassadors of your nation and all they do is cause trouble. This is a major reason for anti-americanism in many nations world wide.

No means No!!

What is it about America that makes you angry and what is it that makes America think we will support any of their ideals or actions?

Hooray for ignorant blanket statements about other countries!

While we're on the topic, how come all Europeans wear monocles and drink tea while chattering their crooked, misshapen teeth about cricket?

And this is a silly statement. Total number dead does not in any way reflect contribution to victory, because, truthfully, warfare is incredibly complex, is affected by tons of variables, and loads of other tasty things.

What would you say if I told you that the US produced over 75% of the total world munitions production during the war? How about the fact that the US killed far more Germans per American than the Soviets killed Germans per Soviet? Don't just fall back on that "boohoo 20 million, Soviets did more" thing.

You do know right that Stalingrad was the most costly and destructive battle in human history right?
The Eastern Front destroyed Germany, especially when you look at battles like the Kursk and the like. The US simply pushed over an already dead country.

And this is a silly statement. Total number dead does not in any way reflect contribution to victory, because, truthfully, warfare is incredibly complex, is affected by tons of variables, and loads of other tasty things.

What would you say if I told you that the US produced over 75% of the total world munitions production during the war? How about the fact that the US killed far more Germans per American than the Soviets killed Germans per Soviet? Don't just fall back on that "boohoo 20 million, Soviets did more" thing.

I mean to say that Russia sacrificed far more than the U.S. in World War II, so it's not really a good argument to say that Europe should support us because we sacrificed a lot for them in WWII.

You do know right that Stalingrad was the most costly and destructive battle in human history right?
The Eastern Front destroyed Germany, especially when you look at battles like the Kursk and the like. The US simply pushed over an already dead country.

While there is no denying the paramount importance of the Eastern Front and the success the Soviets achieved, saying the US simply seized an advantageous situatution is a rahter large understatement.

You do know right that Stalingrad was the most costly and destructive battle in human history right?
The Eastern Front destroyed Germany, especially when you look at battles like the Kursk and the like. The US simply pushed over an already dead country.

And you clearly didn't read my post.

The US produced 75% of the worlds munitions. 25% was produced by Great Britain, Germany, Italy, China and Japan. Could the USSR have succeeded in those key battles without the munitions and raw materials the US provided for them? If you trust Marshall Zhukov, then the answer is no.

I'm not discounting the Soviet contribution to victory, the Russians were absolutely vital. I'm arguing against discounting the American contribution to victory.

What would you say if I told you that the US produced over 75% of the total world munitions production during the war?

I'd say "75% of all statistics are lies including this one".;)

Ohhhhh and *claps in a very European aristocrat fashion wearing her silk gloves with "rar-there" being chanted in the background* Why we thoroughly congratulate you on reaching 5 pages in such a short space of time. Apparently hatred is the best way of getting communication channels open... pity it didn't work between Hitler and the Jews.:rolleyes:

And you clearly didn't read my post.

The US produced 75% of the worlds munitions. 25% was produced by Great Britain, Germany, Italy, China and Japan. Could the USSR have succeeded in those key battles without the munitions and raw materials the US provided for them? If you trust Marshall Zhukov, then the answer is no.

I'm not discounting the Soviet contribution to victory, the Russians were absolutely vital. I'm arguing against discounting the American contribution to victory.

USSR had just gone through the most massive industrialisation in history, they could have produced it easily enough themselves.

And you clearly didn't read my post.

The US produced 75% of the worlds munitions. 25% was produced by Great Britain, Germany, Italy, China and Japan. Could the USSR have succeeded in those key battles without the munitions and raw materials the US provided for them? If you trust Marshall Zhukov, then the answer is no.

I'm not discounting the Soviet contribution to victory, the Russians were absolutely vital. I'm arguing against discounting the American contribution to victory.

Well, was the United States shipping munitions to Europe before they intervened?

Well, was the United States shipping munitions to Europe before they intervened?

Yes.

Drat, I thought my inane post had succeeded in shutting you all up so less reactionary people could take us back to the topic of the original post and what the thread starter requested to know. :rolleyes: Unless he requested to make another thread on a 60 year-old debate and wished to know every minute fact that might support greater contribution by one nation or another.... in which case carry on. :)

They have a little thing called conscription in some nations, I did two years with the Royal Guard. An elite unit and the training we got was by far better then US regulars and even many "elite" untis.
There are many POLICE units in Europe better trained then Rangers, Seals, Delta etc.

Wow, ur obviously just some 12y/o kid w/ a highly arrogant attitude. Just shut up.

My veiw is this.
1. European nations are sovreign, if they do not support you that is because it is not in that nations best interest. Europe is not a free ticket to internation support nor are European militaries a reserve unit for America to call up when the next war comes along

2. What connection do Americans see with Europe that makes them think that we would send our sons to a war they are fighting or even started?

3. America is not a "team player" when it comes to international issues, to name one thing The Kyoto Accord. With over 30% of the earths pollution I would think that that single nation would help save themselves instead of thinking about money.

4. You have US military bases all over the world, many see this as a form of occupation or a force that has is hostile. Also your soldiers are by far the worst educated soldiers on the planet, you send hooligans who did some high school or none to nations as ambassadors of your nation and all they do is cause trouble. This is a major reason for anti-americanism in many nations world wide.



This is my view: (w.o reading the 58 re: thread)

1) Fine, don't can't argue here expect that your Soverignities are being pulled away by the EU.
2) Because the war against islam-o-facist is a war beign fought on the Euro home turf, ala riots, etc. If Europe doesn't want to become a fasicst states, fight them.
3) Over 1/2 the nations thats signed Kyoto isn't on track to get there pollutants down, why should we sign something that looks hopeless?
4) Have the govt's tell them to get out, look what happens to S. Korea or in the Balkins when American troops leave

Wow, ur obviously just some 12y/o kid w/ a highly arrogant attitude. Just shut up.

He's a troll, quit feeding him, he'll go back to his bridge in a moment...

Americans have a long history of disliking anything that does not comply with them. We rebelled against British rule, we ran the natives out by many creative means over many years, we declared war on Britain after they kept impressing our soldiers into their navy, we attacked the Barbary states for attacking our ships, we invaded Mexican lands and kept them, took the Philipines, and much more. Our history is one of might makes right. I agree fully with might makes right. Americans are used to getting their way.

Most Americans are also very ignorant of other countries and their own country. Personally I like what America has done and I care little what the rest of the world thinks because America is a superpower and that is all that matters.

Wow, ur obviously just some 12y/o kid w/ a highly arrogant attitude. Just shut up.

Australian Army regulars are technically better trained than Deltas, plus our guns aren't made of crap material, jam and have to have the trigger replaced because of a crappy pin every 1k rounds. Lol, take that.

Yes.

And was it non-government controlled companies and defense contractors producing and shipping the munitions?

4. You have US military bases all over the world, many see this as a form of occupation or a force that has is hostile. Also your soldiers are by far the worst educated soldiers on the planet, you send hooligans who did some high school or none to nations as ambassadors of your nation and all they do is cause trouble. This is a major reason for anti-americanism in many nations world wide.



Do you actually know anything at all? Our force are most certainly not the worst educated. I don't even know where you can even think about saying that. About 98% have a high school diploma compared to GB which allows its soldiers to only complete half of what an american high school is.

1) Fine, don't can't argue here expect that your Soverignities are being pulled away by the EU.

With respect, it isn't being "pulled away". We voluntarily pooled our sovereignty with the signing of treaties such as Rome, Nice, and SEA. We do it optionally and the point was that we have the right to our own decisions, having a collective sovereignty doesn't diminish that right or invalidate our choice.

What you said here was totally irrelevant; the only linking factor was the word "sovereignty".

2) Because the war against islam-o-facist is a war beign fought on the Euro home turf, ala riots, etc. If Europe doesn't want to become a fasicst states, fight them.

We are "fighting" but the point the original poster gave was referring to war, we change via social policies and accommodation so that alienation is minimised... which is the single greatest cause of home-grown terror.

3) Over 1/2 the nations thats signed Kyoto isn't on track to get there pollutants down, why should we sign something that looks hopeless?

"The moral is; if you try and fail, don't both trying again". That's a rather defeatist attitude isn't it? Kyoto was more a statement of principles and an attempt to take action.

Simply not signing it and continuing on your present path then criticising those who did when they fail isn't acceptable, at least they did something.

4) Have the govt's tell them to get out, look what happens to S. Korea or in the Balkins when American troops leave

I agree with you on this, the nations could easily expel them should they so wish.:)

About 98% have a high school diploma compared to GB which allows its soldiers to only complete half of what an american high school is.

With respect, you can't compare the education system quality of two nations based upon age of leaving. You have to take into consideration factors such as funding, culture, vocational training after High School (even if we leave at 16 employers train for two years in Apprenticeships while the majority continue to college which focuses heavily on the four key subjects you need for your degree.)

The present Government is noted for the soundbite "education, education, education" and due to our Welfare Capitalist roots we put a great deal more money into education per student than the US does.

Anyway, I thought this thread was going to be a serious discussion. I thought it was going to be about who's military can kick the crap out of the other. Now there's a compelling discussion.

Depends on whether numbers beat skill.

Australian Army regulars are technically better trained than Deltas, plus our guns aren't made of crap material, jam and have to have the trigger replaced because of a crappy pin every 1k rounds. Lol, take that.

What the hell do you mean that are technically trained better than Deltas? You are obviously also a 12y/o talkin out of ur ass. I'm not even gonna go into how you couldn't know that and how you are so wrong it's not even funny.

And was it non-government controlled companies and defense contractors producing and shipping the munitions?
No, March 11 1941 President Roosevelt signed the Lend-Lease act which allowed the shipment of American made weapons and fuel to begin, thus saving the isolated UK from running out of key resouces.

Well, was the United States shipping munitions to Europe before they intervened?

Yep. Cash and Carry, followed by allowing purchase on loans followed by Lend-Lease. Extended to Britain and France initially, then to the USSR in the summer of 1941, if I recall correctly.

What connection do Americans see with Europe that makes them think that we would send our sons to a war they are fighting or even started?
We are both "The West!" We are already in bed together!

At this point (and really long before) Al-Quida and friends could care less how much Europe (especially UK) supports USA. (in this war or any other) Kill the enemy before they kill you is allways a good reason to send our sons to war.

What is it that makes America think we will support any of their ideals or actions?
Because it's in both our best interests. But as in all world politics, no aggreement is ever concrete. If I were in charge (USA) I would say "Fine! We'll go it alone! Holler if you need us! But if we fail. Our help will probably be of no use!"

And was it non-government controlled companies and defense contractors producing and shipping the munitions?

Kind-of sort-of.

The US government purchased the stuff from American firms, then shipped it overseas under lend-lease.

Prior to cash-and-carry American firms were forbidden to sell their munitions to any belligerents under the neutrality acts of 1937. Cash-and-carry was implemented in 1939.

At this point (and really long before) Al-Quida and friends could care less how much Europe (especially UK) supports USA. (in this war or any other) Kill the enemy before they kill you is allways a good reason to send our sons to war.

1)sons and daughters* (sorry I'm just pedantic about things like that, especially considering how many women die too).

Also, we don't adopt the policy of "kill them before they kill you" in this case as we know tactically it probably won't work.

This enemy is a virus, an insidious parasite that finds the tiniest gap in your defence, hides in small unconnected cells until you fall into their trap, indoctrinates a single individual so that they will voluntarily blow themselves up just to kill several others.

The "kill first" policy relies on you actually being able to kill your enemy, in this case you cannot because it is an idea you are trying to kill and it's an idea which could be spread if the smallest amount of people surive to continue it.

Ideas such as radical Islam can't be eliminated via war, only via diplomacy and social progress.:)

Of course, this is just offering a European perspective... you may very well disagree.

"It's your duty to support us because we saved your ass in WWII"

ok you seem to be forgetting the fact that you lot hapily sat out of the war until japan attacked pearl harbor and declared war on you followed by germany a few days later. the only reason why the usa joined the war was because war was declared on them, so don't give us that rubbish "we saved your butts" you had no choice becuase if your goverment did not go to war over the whole pearl harbor thing the people of the usa would of gone mental. i'm sorry for the rant but it had to be said. that line has been said too many times especially since your motives were out of self interest.

Oh dear, I hope that didn't re-spark the WWII ranters again. :(

Damn those Islamo-fascist supporting Europeans, us Americans with our big guns best not let them take away our good freedom.

Damn those Islamo-fascist supporting Europeans, us Americans with our big guns best not let them take away our good freedom.

I'm incredibly sweepy and I've had a few gin and tonics so forgive me when I ask, was that a joke?:confused:

"It's your duty to support us because we saved your ass in WWII"

ok you seem to be forgetting the fact that you lot hapily sat out of the war until japan attacked pearl harbor and declared war on you followed by germany a few days later. the only reason why the usa joined the war was because war was declared on them, so don't give us that rubbish "we saved your butts" you had no choice becuase if your goverment did not go to war over the whole pearl harbor thing the people of the usa would of gone mental. i'm sorry for the rant but it had to be said. that line has been said too many times especially since your motives were out of self interest.Oh Fuck off! You can't possibly be that new to this/these kind of forums!!! Just pick up a pillow and fight!

It's your duty to support us because we saved your ass in WWII.
Even if America did single-handedly save Europe from Nazi Germany (Which it didn't), you didn't save us. It was a previous generation. So many people like to try and take credit for other people's work, it's pathetic. We owe the current generation nothing.

Damn those Islamo-fascist supporting Europeans, us Americans with our big guns best not let them take away our good freedom.

I've never heard a fellow american say that any european nation supported islamo-facism. So if you were trying to make a joke, it didnt turn out well.

Europe needs to fall in line and be America's bitch when it comes to foreign policy and wars. I mean come on America had to fight the revolution on our soil! We know the true cost of war unlike Europe that has never been effected by war in the same way the US has. I have no idea why they would hesitate to follow Bush in his blunders around the world, do you?

I've never heard a fellow american say that any european nation supported islamo-facism. So if you were trying to make a joke, it didnt turn out well.

Oh wow :eek: I thought I was just imagining things :p However, I do feel inclined to elaborate by saying it was a very offensive comment if it wasn't a joke thus illustrating the OP's point that the US has citizens who seemingly demand our support or ridicule us/belittle us if we don't.:rolleyes:

Europe needs to fall in line and be America's bitch when it comes to foreign policy and wars. I mean come on America had to fight the revolution on our soil! We know the true cost of war unlike Europe that has never been effected by war in the same way the US has. I have no idea why they would hesitate to follow Bush in his blunders around the world, do you?

That joke was far more evident yet also far more witty, you get my huggle of the day. :D

Oh Fuck off! You can't possibly be that new to this/these kind of forums!!! Just pick up a pillow and fight!

erm ok that was what i was doing. making a valid point to the discussion i believe is taking part in the debate. i'm sorry if you thought that i was taking part.

Europe needs to fall in line and be America's bitch when it comes to foreign policy and wars. I mean come on America had to fight the revolution on our soil! We know the true cost of war unlike Europe that has never been effected by war in the same way the US has. I have no idea why they would hesitate to follow Bush in his blunders around the world, do you?

Exactly, since when have these Europeans fought major wars, they sit around drinking lattes and supporting the Islamo-Fascists while the US fights to destroy the evil religions of the world.

Exactly, since when have these Europeans fought major wars, they sit around drinking lattes and supporting the Islamo-Fascists while the US fights to destroy the evil religions of the world.

You missed a spot *points to South US*, there's a great big evil stain there. :p

Oh and while you're at it *points at Vatican* can’t be that hard to destroy a bunch of geriatrics and men in ridiculous medieval fancy dress can it? :D

well in my opinion nither country owes the other anything, and its wrong to say that america does not like the eroupeans for not supporting us. they have every reason not to.

Exactly, since when have these Europeans fought major wars, they sit around drinking lattes and supporting the Islamo-Fascists while the US fights to destroy the evil religions of the world.HA-HA ..And they are all pussies... WAIT! Isn't this in the wrong place? It seems to be in General, not your usual RP...

You missed a spot *points to South US*, there's a great big evil stain there. :p

Oh and while you're at it *points at Vatican* can’t be that hard to destroy a bunch of geriatrics and men in ridiculous medieval fancy dress can it? :D

But the Vatican has an anti-matter bomb. :eek:
Dan Brown wrote it, so it must be true. :cool:

The nations of the world need to make a decision, either their nations belong to us, or they belong to the evil Islamo-fascists, decide....

This enemy is a virus, an insidious parasite that finds the tiniest gap in your defence, hides in small unconnected cells until you fall into their trap, indoctrinates a single individual so that they will voluntarily blow themselves up just to kill several others.

The "kill first" policy relies on you actually being able to kill your enemy, in this case you cannot because it is an idea you are trying to kill and it's an idea which could be spread if the smallest amount of people surive to continue it.

Exelent analysis!
The enemy is a virus! The enemy is a disease! And the "idea" we are at war with is spreading like a disease!

And sometimes when a disease is incurable, the only thing to do is to treat the symptoms in hopes of, at least, slowing down the inevitable.

I have a question for Americans and us Europeans.

I live in America now and hear a lot of anger towards Europeans, the most common thing I hear people say is "Why didn't they or don't they support us?".
These lines are often followed by some bad word following a European nations name or name of the peoples in those nations.

My veiw is this.
1. European nations are sovreign, if they do not support you that is because it is not in that nations best interest. Europe is not a free ticket to internation support nor are European militaries a reserve unit for America to call up when the next war comes along

2. What connection do Americans see with Europe that makes them think that we would send our sons to a war they are fighting or even started?

3. America is not a "team player" when it comes to international issues, to name one thing The Kyoto Accord. With over 30% of the earths pollution I would think that that single nation would help save themselves instead of thinking about money.

4. You have US military bases all over the world, many see this as a form of occupation or a force that has is hostile. Also your soldiers are by far the worst educated soldiers on the planet, you send hooligans who did some high school or none to nations as ambassadors of your nation and all they do is cause trouble. This is a major reason for anti-americanism in many nations world wide.

No means No!!

What is it about America that makes you angry and what is it that makes America think we will support any of their ideals or actions?

Europe is NOT quite as "sovreign" and powerful as you think.You have no idea just how weak Europe is militarily,do you?:upyours: Fact of the matter is,the vast majority fo Europes military defense is nothing more than Americans on loan,the militarys of France and Germany are nothing more than token forces.If it was not for the USA,Europe would have become the Grand Islamic Empire of White Slaves long before now.Europe is entirely subservant to the USA.Their shouldnt even be a debate about whether the European countries should serve the USA when we want them to.Those troops could move right out of those bases any time we want to and force the surrender of Europe in a matter of days.Anyway,if you think Europe shouldnt be in the Iraq War because it doesnt serve the EU's interests,then the US shouldnt have gone to Kosovo.We shouldnt have dropped supplies on Berlin.We shouldnt even have been in Normandy,for chrissake.These thing served American interests in no way,shape or form.This was carried out entirery as a resylt of American compassion.
Are you fuckin kidding me?:headbang: The EU countries benifit immesurably as a result of the US.First of all,we give you military protection.Hundreds of thousands of US troops are currently stationed in Europe to prevent Europe from losing its freedom.Kaiser Germany.Nazi Germany.the Soviet Union.Now with Al-Qaida.The USA is the only reason Europe didnt fall during those periods.Europes own forces proved laughably incompetent.Secondly,you cant discount the economic transfer America gives to Europe.We allow you to set up trade barriers to prevent US products from destroying your economy(face it,American products are cheaper and better,this has been proven time and time again due to our much less burdensome taxation and regulation granting us a more effiecent economic machine.At the same time America is working,Europe just lays around,with something like 20% of the population unemployed.And they get opulent,totally unearned benifits from the government that would have been considered unconstitutional in America.Europe is simply not an world power anymore.All of your economic power and world prestige is now simply funneled there by the US.If we ever decided to stop caring about you,you would rapidly spiral downward into Thirld World status,and we would be laughing our ass of the whole time.

Exactly, since when have these Europeans fought major wars, they sit around drinking lattes and supporting the Islamo-Fascists while the US fights to destroy the evil religions of the world.

The creators of Starbucks are going to lecture Europeans about coffee?

Oh, of course I've got the power to decide for my entire nation just because I happen to reside their. That's how we pick ambassadors here dontcha know?:rolleyes:

Anyhoo, faced with Islamic-fascist and Christian-fascist I'd have to weigh my options: Under both I have lose all my rights simply because of gender, under both everything is my gender's fault because we're inherently evil:rolleyes: , under both I'd have to give birth to a ridiculous amount of children due to lack of contraception, and under both I'd probably be executed instantly due to sexuality.

Hmmmmm, difficult choice to make.They're both so appealing :p

You must all be joking ppl !!!! – and completely missing the point here !!!!

Can't you see america still is mainly WASP – and WASP are just expatriate europeans ????

This is nothing but a question of bad tempered europeans against another – as usual !!!!

WAKE UP and get real :D :D :D

Exactly Utaho, an excellent first post. Europe might as well just become part of the US, so long for healthy eating!!!!
And damn those French ...cough (metric system) cough..., germans ...cough (nazi's) cough.... etc, actually on second thought the whole world needs to be Americanised!

Europe is NOT quite as "sovreign" and powerful as you think.You have no idea just how weak Europe is militarily,do you?:upyours: Fact of the matter is,the vast majority fo Europes military defense is nothing more than Americans on loan,the militarys of France and Germany are nothing more than token forces.If it was not for the USA,Europe would have become the Grand Islamic Empire of White Slaves long before now.Europe is entirely subservant to the USA.Their shouldnt even be a debate about whether the European countries should serve the USA when we want them to.Those troops could move right out of those bases any time we want to and force the surrender of Europe in a matter of days.Anyway,if you think Europe shouldnt be in the Iraq War because it doesnt serve the EU's interests,then the US shouldnt have gone to Kosovo.We shouldnt have dropped supplies on Berlin.We shouldnt even have been in Normandy,for chrissake.These thing served American interests in no way,shape or form.This was carried out entirery as a resylt of American compassion.
Are you fuckin kidding me?:headbang: The EU countries benifit immesurably as a result of the US.First of all,we give you military protection.Hundreds of thousands of US troops are currently stationed in Europe to prevent Europe from losing its freedom.Kaiser Germany.Nazi Germany.the Soviet Union.Now with Al-Qaida.The USA is the only reason Europe didnt fall during those periods.Europes own forces proved laughably incompetent.Secondly,you cant discount the economic transfer America gives to Europe.We allow you to set up trade barriers to prevent US products from destroying your economy(face it,American products are cheaper and better,this has been proven time and time again due to our much less burdensome taxation and regulation granting us a more effiecent economic machine.At the same time America is working,Europe just lays around,with something like 20% of the population unemployed.And they get opulent,totally unearned benifits from the government that would have been considered unconstitutional in America.Europe is simply not an world power anymore.All of your economic power and world prestige is now simply funneled there by the US.If we ever decided to stop caring about you,you would rapidly spiral downward into Thirld World status,and we would be laughing our ass of the whole time.Somebody tell me how I can sig this shit..? There has to be a way!

The unfortunate thing is that Utaho wasn't joking. :eek: The fact that his post lacked any factual evidence, structure, or basic sentences is illustrative of a frantic, angered post hammered out without thought. I feel sorry for anybody who can be that frustrated by this issue... they lack a life if that's their biggest worry. :(

I did feel like listing countless facts about the member nations of the EU... like the GDP being 1st in the world, the UK being higher on the Heritage Foundation’s index than the US for economic competitiveness, Germany being the world's largest exporter of goods (so your products are better are they? so you just enjoy buying ours for the sake of it?), having very different philosophies which means we might have unemployment but we don’t have 46 million people without any form of health cover beyond the most basic level, etc. :p

But... as I said... I'm rising above that.:D ;)

Somebody tell me how I can sig this shit..? There has to be a way!

What if we get looooooooootttts of people to take a piece each and say "see *insert name*'s sig for part *insert part*" :D.... but then again you'd need more than people than there are members on this forum :p

Somebody tell me how I can sig this shit..? There has to be a way!

If it was not for the USA, Europe would have become the Grand Islamic Empire of White Slaves long before now.

??????????

Europe has not been under serious islamic threat after the battle of Lepanto (1571)...

And don't forget that in WWI arabs were fighting against the Turks with the Allies (haven't you seen Lawrence of Arabia?????)

:D :D :D

I have a question for Americans and us Europeans.

I live in America now and hear a lot of anger towards Europeans, the most common thing I hear people say is "Why didn't they or don't they support us?".
These lines are often followed by some bad word following a European nations name or name of the peoples in those nations.

My veiw is this.
1. European nations are sovreign, if they do not support you that is because it is not in that nations best interest. Europe is not a free ticket to internation support nor are European militaries a reserve unit for America to call up when the next war comes along

2. What connection do Americans see with Europe that makes them think that we would send our sons to a war they are fighting or even started?

3. America is not a "team player" when it comes to international issues, to name one thing The Kyoto Accord. With over 30% of the earths pollution I would think that that single nation would help save themselves instead of thinking about money.

4. You have US military bases all over the world, many see this as a form of occupation or a force that has is hostile. Also your soldiers are by far the worst educated soldiers on the planet, you send hooligans who did some high school or none to nations as ambassadors of your nation and all they do is cause trouble. This is a major reason for anti-americanism in many nations world wide.

No means No!!

What is it about America that makes you angry and what is it that makes America think we will support any of their ideals or actions?


Mostly their environmentalist policies. They can pollute their backyards all they want but when they pollute the atmosphere (which they are very good at), it becomes all of our bussiness. I dont find "American arragonce" big of a deal, it's rather funny, IMO.

Mostly their environmentalist policies. They can pollute their backyards all they want but when they pollute the atmosphere (which they are very good at), it becomes all of our bussiness. I dont find "American arragonce" big of a deal, it's rather funny, IMO.Do elaborate... and focus.

Somebody tell me how I can sig this shit..? There has to be a way!

I suspect he is a troll. maybe the OPer under a different name.

That was the point, stirr up anger in the yanks by being a yank and see what happens. A bunch of monkeys with high school diplomas, the future of American government is here.

Hi. You can stop trolling now.
Warned.

Wow, ur obviously just some 12y/o kid w/ a highly arrogant attitude. Just shut up.

Knock it off.

What the hell do you mean that are technically trained better than Deltas? You are obviously also a 12y/o talkin out of ur ass. I'm not even gonna go into how you couldn't know that and how you are so wrong it's not even funny.

Warned for flaming.

As a matter of fact, since this thread started as a troll, and since both sides are being equally obnoxious, thread closed.
Do try again with a bit more civility, y'all.